B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[TobinAlbers]

8 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

It took me a moment to realise you were talking about Don Diamont's Bill (who is Bill Jr) and not Big Daddy Bill Sr, the only man never to be steamrolled by Ridge hahaha

That said, $Bill was definitely on the show then and I think still had ownership of FC. This was within weeks of Liam coming into the show. Such wonderful salad days those were. 😞

Updated the Sr. to Jr. as that was an oops on my part.

Huh. I thought $Bill showed up upon Nick's departure since they obviously had to use some of Jack Wagner's salary to cover DD's pay. Didn't realize they overlapped.

Poor Oliver. Doomed by his horniness blinding him.

Early Liam with the search for my dad story was okay. It was only when he was looped into trying to please daddy and sent to check on Steffy that the true stupidness began. His horniness became his downfall too in a way and yet he kept on trucking unlike poor Oliver.

[backhometome]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

This pretty much sums it up.

Oh, wow, thanks. I didn't know they were remarried as recently as 2005. I thought it was only once in the 90s. 

Were they a popular couple? 

Edited June 12, 2020 by backhometome

[sugarbaker design]

45 minutes ago, backhometome said:

Were they a popular couple? 

I have no idea.  When this was going on, I wasn't connected on line to any fans.  B&B was definitely a guilty pleasure, I never told anyone I actually watched it.  One of the ramifications of their relationship was a miserable and vindictive Stephanie, and that was always good TV.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm sorry, it just never made sense to me that Quinn thought she loved Liam. The whole thing at the cabin was built on a sick lie. How is that kidnapping, sexually assaulting loony toon considered redeemed now?

And then Liam was talked out of pursuing justice against Quinn because it would've been too "embarrassing" when the facts of the case became public. Ugh, Bill should've killed that psycho with his bare hands but I guess he's only allowed to go after people who can't fight back at his level.

It's amazing Wyatt did the right thing wrt nutbag Quinn since he knew it would likely cost him Steffy in the long run.

Wait, what? That wasn't Wyatt's house. I thought the cliff house was Liam's until he and Steffy broke up the last time and she bought it from Bill. Wyatt lives in Malibu.

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

How is that kidnapping, sexually assaulting loony toon considered redeemed now?

By Eric's say so, basically. Really that's it. That witch was STILL trying to screw around with Liam's life by pushing Ivy at him so Wyatt could keep Steffy. That's why even when Eric reamed Liam out for being a waffle I wanted him to tell Eric and everybody else to go screw themselves because his sins against Hope and Steffy -while crappy- were nothing to what Quinn did to him.

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

And then Liam was talked out of pursuing justice against Quinn because it would've been too "embarrassing" when the facts of the case became public. Ugh, Bill should've killed that psycho with his bare hands but I guess he's only allowed to go after people who can't fight back at his level.

The show did a disservice to those who have been sexually assaulted. Period. And the show also committed grave character assassination against Bill who was totally down with killing Amber - carrying his supposed grandchild- because she was trying to 'ruin' his son's life. HTH would Bill NOT feel the need to off Quinn? She tried to kill Liam at least 2-3 times and each time hid behind Wyatt (and she calls Liam a coward and weasle wimp?) who pled her case to Bill who would back down because he bought the excuse that he 'owed' Wyatt. In this situation she denied Liam medical attention with complete disregard to his well-being, brainwashed him, and then sexually assaulted him. The fact that months after this Bill was goading Liam playfully about this sexual assault as if it were a laughing matter was disgusting. 

How I wish Liam had told Justin to go to hell and hired Avery Bailey Clark or Michael Baldwin from Y&R to represent him and if not get justice through the law, take Quinn for every penny she was worth in a civil lawsuit and leave her penniless and donate the money to charity. Hell, since Fuller Designs was owned?/partnered with Forrester, he could've done some real damage to FC if he'd been allowed to get a big enough head of steam -especially if he were allowed to remember that he had dumped Steffy's ass after finding her in his bed cuddled up with Wyatt. Liam should've been spiraling and lashing out at pretty much everyone but maybe Caroline 2.0 who by all rights would also be dealing in recovering from her own sexual assault by Thomas which resulted in Douglas (which really would've given Liam pause to realize that has things gone another way, Quinn may have ended up pregnant with his kid-and knowing this show Quinn's kid wouldn't have been a tock).

Quinn should've been 'disappeared' by Bill and Justin. Wyatt receives a letter from 'Quinn' saying that after skating on jail time she needed to leave LA to get her head on straight. She leaves him in charge of Fuller Designs and will be in touch when she's ready. Bill tells Liam that he never, ever, ever has to worry about Quinn again and reading between the lines realizes what Bill has done...and this time let's sleeping dogs lie.

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It's amazing Wyatt did the right thing wrt nutbag Quinn since he knew it would likely cost him Steffy in the long run.

Eh, Wyatt only opened his mouth after he put a ring on Steffy's finger and felt he had secured her to him.  He saw videotape of Liam passing out in the Forrester parking lot, Quinn drag him into his car, and drive off. And knew that Liam had been missing for months and that his mother said boo to him about what had happened with Liam. Yes, he questioned her, but he knew she was lying and knew the situation stunk to high heaven but instead of really calling her out on it or going to Bill (which tells you he knew something was up), he ran to Steffy to get the marriage pushed up and locked her in, THEN afterwards was like, okay, let me go 'save' Liam. For all he knew, Quinn could've killed Liam in that timeframe or whatever injuries he sustained could've gotten worse.

He gets zero points from me in finally dragging his ass over to the cabin to do a real investigation of the situation.  And again a missed character beat for Bill, who is damn smart, and should realize the timing and figure out what kind of shenanigans Wyatt pulled to get Steffy. I would've loved if in a quiet moment that he let Wyatt know that he knows exactly what he did and that while he's fine with that kind of ruthlessness being shown to their enemies, you don't do that to family -especially a brother you claim you want a real relationship. Wyatt can only play the I was raised by a mental case card so far with Bill letting his guilt get the better of him and this is the moment that Bill will not let Wyatt play that card again. Wyatt would have a long way to go to regain Bill's trust or respect and you'd then have legit friction between them with Bill holding Wyatt at arm's length again and Wyatt's resentment of Liam stirred up to the max and him desperate to 'win' by keeping Steffy and protecting Quinn.

I get it, Rena Sofer is a great actress and she's great as Quinn. But what undercuts her taking the air out of Liam's bouts of self-entitlement is the realization that this grown ass woman is  taking out her pain of rejection by Bill and jealousy of Kelly but attacking and bullying their 'loved' child, hiding behind her son when 'she goes too far' and gets absolutely no comeuppance for it. If they want to play that Quinn is broken then do that story so she's on the road to recovery for her and her son's sake. As she is, she's not compelling to me, she's sad. Liam has his faults -many, many, many annoying faults- but he has more than reaped what he sowed by what Quinn has wrought him and she has gotten nada in terms of payback. Quinn needs the family of the man we think she killed to come gunning for her. Maybe the guy had a son and daughter and they come to LA with a plan for revenge ala Emily Thorne in Revenge.  Maybe the son infiltrates Forrester via Steffy (give her a new man!) and the daughter cozies up to Wyatt. That'd be a nice chicken to come home to roost, do some damage, and shake up the scene.

[Anna Yolei]

20 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Liam has his faults -many, many, many annoying faults- but he has more than reaped what he sowed by what Quinn has wrought him

I hate to think of rape as redemption (which I'm sure you weren't implying here, but soaps have done that story far too often as well) but it's not as all equivocal to his types of sins. I wouldn't wish that on Ridge, past or present, and I was just as skivved when they did the whole drugged sex bullshit with Ridge taking pills around Taylor.

I'd comment more, but I'm headed out to work, but this whole post was *chef's kiss* Liam was robbed of justice and agency, Quinn is tiresome, and Wyatt is no better than Liam at being righteous once it's convenient for him. Steffy deserves better and since TIIC chickened out on Still and no way would they go there with Stelly (Steffy/Sally), I'd be down for an old school long game revenge story. Roll in Eric III who comes back into the Forresters' lives and brings these friends of his and you got yourself the new hottest story (that Brat Bell will sabotage, but hey, anything to take away the ToD)

[TobinAlbers]

On 6/12/2020 at 10:25 PM, Anna Yolei said:

I hate to think of rape as redemption (which I'm sure you weren't implying here, but soaps have done that story far too often as well) but it's not as all equivocal to his types of sins. I wouldn't wish that on Ridge, past or present, and I was just as skivved when they did the whole drugged sex bullshit with Ridge taking pills around Taylor.

Bad phrasing on my part.  I definitely don't consider rape as 'redemption' or 'righteous karmic' punishment by any means even if soaps have had the bad habit of pushing this on a lot of soap heroines. I was meaning more that Quinn could be viewed by some as Liam's karmic payback for how he treated Steffy and Hope - although a) I maintain they also played into the toxic triangle by making Liam the focus of their supposed rivalry (and an extension of their mother's) and b) Liam's 'karma' card should've been squared with Quinn's constant interference in his and Hope's life and up to when Hope left town after the loss of her child.

Oftentimes a soap character doesn't always get the punishment they deserve (if at all) directly from those they've wronged but by someone else calling them out. Quinn had some good points about Liam's entitlement but it was always offset by her own self-interest in pushing her own son, her jealousy of Kelly and Bill, and her over the top, deadly actions towards Liam that made no damn sense other than she's nuts.  And Hope and Steffy did get their licks in on Liam when Hope showed Liam how it felt being the one having to fight in a triangle by entertaining Wyatt's overtures (only she got burned in the process) and Steffy and he did have a pretty deep talk upon her return where she called him out on his inability to commit - although I will always say that her narrative that he abandoned her after the loss of their child doesn't fly - Liam begged her to stay - he wasn't sniffing around Hope at all in the aftermath of the loss of his and Steffy's child, she insisted she had to leave because she couldn't give him what he deserved (gee, thanks Brad for pushing that misogynistic trope that a woman's worth is her ability to have a child with what is supposed to be your most badass heroine on the show) , served him with divorce papers, and he made one last ditch effort by going to Paris to meet her face to face  where she sent him away AGAIN.  She abandoned him and only wanted him back after he had moved on and oh, what's that? With Quinn egging her on.

Liam being an incredible douche for knocking up two women inside of a year and ping ponging between them aside, this guy has been through some kind of emotional ringer in that the women he finally does commit to drop him as soon as their love child is dead which really should be exacerbating his abandonment issues and then they relentlessly push him to be with the other woman because they can give him what they need and dummy he is actually kind of goes along with it. They all need therapy and they all need to break/fix the the cycle of insanity they've found themselves in for the last 7-8 years. If not for themselves then for their daughters who really shouldn't have to deal with the leftover drama of their parents. 

Liam and Steffy may have really loved each other but the show should've never pulled back on the truth that was hinted at during the Still affair - Steffy loved Liam, but he was a replacement for the man she really wanted, his father. The show should've had the balls for all parties to have to work through that prickly truth with Still reuniting for a real go at their relationship and Ridge, Katie, and Liam having to deal with it especially if Kelly turned out to be Bill's (or we thought it for a time). Then Liam's rebound with Hope and Beth's conception would make a bit more emotional sense for Liam. And instead of Steffy wanting to adopt a child to raise with Kelly, the adoption storyline should've been Rick and Maya wanted to adopt another child since they couldn't use Nicole again with Rick ultimately caught between his sister Hope and his wife Maya which eventually would've given an organic reason for Raya to fall apart when Rick gives baby Beth back to his sister against Maya's wishes.

And as always, I got a wee bit off track with the what ifs. Back to topic, Quinn and Captive Cabin sucked and it should be forgotten. Fan favorite episode my caboose.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Agreed on all points.

What pisses me off most? SC has more chemistry with Quinn than ANY of his other romantic leading ladies. They could've just had a story where the two of them mutrually have drunk sex and then get embarrassed/awkward about it not unlike Jack and Gloria's ONS on Y&R a while back. Instead Bell chose the nuclear option and poisoned the ship to the point that no one wants to revisit it. Ugh, I hate it.

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

They all need therapy and they all need to break/fix the the cycle of insanity they've found themselves in for the last 7-8 years. If not for themselves then for their daughters who really shouldn't have to deal with the leftover drama of their parents.

Leftover drama from parents AND grandparents, don't forget that! 😛

I'm being tongue in cheek here, but in all seriousness, as long as Taylor Hamilton-Hayes draws breath, she will work non-stop to poison anyone who will listen against Brooke, including her grandchildren. I won't be surprised when she decides to sue Hope and Liam for custody of Douglas, despite ignoring everything being off with her psycho son in the first place.

I don't think Brooke will be nearly as poisonous but she'll be enabling poor Beth to keep fighting for the poor loser waffle she and Kelly will be stuck fighting over. Much like that wedding she threw for Lope knowing Steffy was out of town to give Liam time to think with that 1cm ball bearing that passed for his brain in those days.

Thank God Lizzie has another set of grandparents who have hopefully moved back to wherever they came from to lean into.

[Joimiaroxeu]

What has TB done to her face during the shutdown? That close camera angle wasn't doing her any favors, IMO.

Oy, what did Eric ever see in Sheila? The malevolence must have radiated off her like bad perfume.

26 miles. I didn't realize Catalina was that far away. That'd almost be like swimming a marathon.

Ew, having sex in a public dressing room. So tacky. And that clerk said the woman looked about ten years younger than the man. Scandalous! (And also a bit generous on the actors' actual age difference but who's counting?🙄)

FC menswear went with the metrosexual look before it became a big thing. Huh.

[Joimiaroxeu]

First of all, again, HT was so beautiful back then. Such a darn shame what she's done to her face.

Second of all, it really hit me today how much the current Thomas and little Douglas both look like RM Ridge. Heh, take that, TK. (Pierson Fodé's Thomas seems to have resembled TK Ridge more, IMO.)

Victor and Brooke co-conspiring like a couple of teenagers? Okay. Not a fan of her pixie cut though.

Of course Victor had to make a big production of kissing Brooke. He couldn't just lean across the table like a normal person?

Ridge trying to step to TGVN. It is to laugh. Now a scene like that with TK and EB as Ridge and Victor would be fun. Battle of the Characters with Unexplained European Accents. 🤔

[TobinAlbers]

Today's episode of B&B with Victor Newman crossing over made me do the unthinkable - root for Victor.

Ridge was an absolute turd today in how he treated Taylor, Brooke, and even Victor. Someone pointed out that Victor was using his California manners because back in Genoa City, Wisconsin he'd have headbutted Ridge for talking to him like that. I was literally laughing even as Ronn Moss stood a few inches taller than Eric Braeden that I totally believed Victor could whup Ridge's ass.

Aside from slobbering all over Brooke in public and giving her a through tonsil check with his wife Nikki at home, Victor was actually pretty delightful here.

[CountryGirl]

LA Victor can stay AND slay.

I loved Brooke's Throoke shorter do, but not this pixie. It...did not look good.

LOL at Ridge leaving Taylor's side to go pee on Brooke's leg. Never change, Ridge.

It's totally wishful thinking but I keep hoping that with so many of the retro episodes featuring Original Recipe Ridge that maybe, just maybe TPTB would bring RM back as Ridge when they start airing new episodes. That could definitely drive viewership. But I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

And this isn't to say recasts can't work out and smashingly so, see Y&R's Peter Bergman, Jess Walton, Judith Chapman to name a few, but TK is just all wrong for the part and I have never once found him believable as Ridge. He should have been cast as an entirely new character or heck, even shades of his Patrick Thornheart character from OLTL.

[Joimiaroxeu]

What was the deal with that Jonathan guy? He seemed almost like a zombie to me.

Kay Chancellor and Stephanie Forrester. Now there were two fierce old broads.

Wait, so Brooke married Eric more than once? Yeesh. I don't know why Eric would need to be anyone's mercy husband.

I'm confused. If Stephanie's father owned FC why was it named after the Forresters?

Nick turned into some kind of nutbag apparently.

Pssht, since when do visitors to the FC CEO's office get announced? Nowadays everyone just barges in like they own the place. And Stephanie actually did own the place.

[TobinAlbers]

So today’s classic episode had Nick playing the role of a turd, with Eric not far behind. Asking a woman ‘ Did you f@#$ your husband yet? ‘ is just gross 😒. Especially if the woman is the mother of the woman carrying your child. Sheesh. And then telling her he’s ‘Doing what’s best for her’ and taking her out on the Shady Marlin against her wishes? Dooooouche.

Katherine stroking her chin, cutting those glances, and stirring up shit was a lot more fun than I remembered. Oh, the shade she threw at Eric, ‘He IS a man.’ ::Gives Stephanie a pointed look::

This was when Eric still was not such an old stallion - still virile and playing the company games. Susan Flannery played the hell out of the realization and processing of Eric’s betrayal. After everything they’ve been through it really was a shitty thing to do to Stephanie to keep that secret.

And in the opening credits- the Hoover twins as identical twins Steffy and Phoebe Forrester for their brief tenure make an appearance! 

57 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wait, so Brooke married Eric more than once? Yeesh. I don't know why Eric would need to be anyone's mercy husband.

Yeah, she’s married him twice and tried to get him to marry her again and claim Bill’s baby( this is when he was dating Taylor) as his. He said no but given what we knew of Eric it really could’ve gone either way as along the way they made Eric apparently really, truly, deeply fall in love with Brooke where he never blamed her for anything for too long. Ridge is the one to blame for the affair that broke up his marriage to Brooke, Deacon is the one to blame for hurting Bridget and so on. He’s disappointed in Brooke and her actions but ultimately forgives her and supports her. On one hand it’s nice he shows unconditional love, but he also comes across as a foolish doormat when it comes to Brooke.

[sugarbaker design]

19 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm confused. If Stephanie's father owned FC why was it named after the Forresters?

When B&B first started it was established that while Eric was the heart and soul of FC, it was Stephanie's father Mr. Douglas who initially backed the company financially.  Remember Eric was dating a young Beth Henderson in college when Stephanie Douglas demanded Eric marry her after he got her pregnant.  So Eric had a choice to make:  marry his true love or the woman who was pregnant with his child and a father with a shitload of money.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Smilin' Jack Abbott. Yeah, baby!

Heh, Pierce Peterson. Great soap opera name. And a doctor too!

Darla looked rather elegant. For her, anyway. No unusually exposed body parts. 😼

I liked Stephanie in that bright color. Meanwhile, meanwhile Sally looked to me like she was about to start belting out torch songs in an Old West saloon.

Eric and Jack in the Battle of the Chin Dimples. Tee. 🙂

I don't understand what Taylor's role was in that soirée. Why did Pierce introduce her to the attendees like she was making a debut?

Was Taylor married to Ridge at this time or were they just dating? Either way, pretty bold of Pierce to give her a diamond necklace that. I guess he must've been trying to break them up because I don't see a gift like that sitting right with Ridge.

FC must've been in dire straits if they had to go begging to Genoa City for investors. Were they trying to play Jack and Victor against each other?

[Anna Yolei]

On 6/17/2020 at 4:24 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Nick turned into some kind of nutbag apparently.

That's putting it mildly. I coined the moniker Nick N Sane because after he got with Brooke, he just became so unpleasantly controlling. And to be fair, Stephanie *was* meddling once again to  make her baby boy Ridge happy bur geez, maybe trust your wife that you left her daughter to be with, idk? 

On 6/17/2020 at 4:24 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wait, so Brooke married Eric more than once? Yeesh. I don't know why Eric would need to be anyone's mercy husband.

IIRC, that second time was more about Brooke putting on a show that she was supposedly moving on from Nick, as Bridget had clued in on their feelings ages ago. Being Dr. Bridget Forrester and all, she didn't buy that shit either. Plus, this was right after Steph confessed to faking a heart attack, so Eric was willing to go along with it to piss her off.

Man, those were good times. And by that, I mean "the time I really started to notice the wheels coming off from the show."

[nilyank]

Brooke looked great in today's. Loved the shorter hair and her amusement with Jack. They should have messed for a fling.

Well you can tell that the show had a bigger budget with all those damned extras at Dr Pierce's party. That's more people that what is currently on the show and then some.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Well you can tell that the show had a bigger budget with all those damned extras at Dr Pierce's party.

While watching that scene all I could think was how we'll likely never see big group scenes like that again, or at least not for a long time. Though I suppose they could CGI the crowd in like they do in the movies. B&B probably doesn't have that kind of budget though.

[CharlizeCat]

With men like Pierce Peterson and Connor Davis waiting in the wings for Taylor and Brooke, respectively, why were they fighting over Ridge? 

[TobinAlbers]

Seeing Phoebe today was like a breath of fresh air. I really wish she was alive so that Steffy had a true ally but also so that we'd have more variety on the show. Just a big shame they killed her as the 'expendable' Marrone-Forrester when she was the best of all of them.

Ah, Nick and Taylor married with a baby on the way. Nick once again sniffing around Brooke while playing like he's over her but really isn't as we soon learn once Jack's maternity is revealed.  We're about one year out from Taylor's alcoholism beginning with learning Brooke is Jack's biological mother AND Rick and Taylor hooking up which was a catalyst for Phoebe's death.

See the parallel of Nick/Brooke and Taylor/Ridge in their talks- Nick is obviously still sniffing around Brooke even as she's whining about getting Ridge back and he's married to Taylor with a baby on the way. Did you see the look on his face when Brooke went on about a child bonding you for life? He was wishing it was Brooke as the mother of his child, not Taylor; meanwhile Taylor and Ridge converse as exes who are friends but not carrying obvious unrequited torches for each other. Of course she was throwing a little shade about his choices in women, LOL, but Taylor is with Nick and Ridge is with Ashley. Just a nice thing to see between them.

[Gam2]

How disappointing to see that Taylor (HT) had her upper lip plumped up so hugely as to be very distracting. I don’t know why women feel the need to do that to themselves. Ugly.

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

We're about one year out from Taylor's alcoholism beginning with learning Brooke is Jack's biological mother AND Rick and Taylor hooking up which was a catalyst for Phoebe's death

Slight nitpick, but Taylor was already an alcoholic before this, beginning with when Ridge left her over her hypocrisy about Brooke. After that, she started drinking, and it culmulated with Darla's death (hence the cover-up as she had a whole half a beer in her system when she went to pick up Phoebe on the side of PCH).

That said, I once made the mistake of rewatching the egg switch story while sober and BOY, did I hate both Taylor AND Brooke at the end of it. Initially I sympathize because the whole thing never would have happened were not for Brooke using her eggs to lure Nick in like a siren on the cliffs but dead God, I don't think I actually saw Taylor show any affection for the baby ever. Personally, this story would have worked better if Taylor had gotten to bond with the baby first, but damn, she didn't even try. 

Considering how quickly she throws her own biological children under the bus when it suits her, Jack is lucky he escaped that shitshow.

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

See the parallel of Nick/Brooke and Taylor/Ridge in their talks- Nick is obviously still sniffing around Brooke even as she's whining about getting Ridge back and he's married to Taylor with a baby on the way. Did you see the look on his face when Brooke went on about a child bonding you for life? He was wishing it was Brooke as the mother of his child, not Taylor

I dunno, when I first watched that story, I felt like Nick was as done with Brooke has he'd ever been. Or maybe that was my wishful thinking at the time because I completely hated the way then ended and how Nick got completely ruined as a result.

Aside from that, Nick and Taylor were an...interesting couple whose full potential was never really mined, and it was truly a shame. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Anna Yolei

[TobinAlbers]

22 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

I don't think I actually saw Taylor show any affection for the baby ever. Personally, this story would have worked better if Taylor had gotten to bond with the baby first, but damn, she didn't even try. 

Considering how quickly she throws her own biological children under the bus when it suits her, Jack is lucky he escaped that shitshow.

Not sure when her son died in real life but I know it was during this storyline because people were worried about the emotional toll of her grieving e ‘loss’ of Jack. I recall watching her breakdown scene during the custody battle and feeling so badly for HT because her grief/breakdown seemed all too real.

Yeah, the show should’ve had let the maternity secret percolate longer as Taylor knew Jack was Brooke’s biologically and Brooke immediately weaponized it and zeroed in on her alcoholism. Nick was trying to pull Brooke back in via Jack which Ridge was highly aware of and had no patience for. He was actually pushing the right angle of leaving Taylor and Nick to work out and raise Jack as Brooke was his bio mother but Taylor was his legal mother. Taylor and Nick should’ve had time to really bond, fall really truly in love, and be a family with Jack before the rug was pulled out from under them.

Jack Marone is sorely needed on canvas with Taylor and RJ. It’s a story that writes itself in Jack wanting to know his mothers and Taylor actually able to bond with him now and Brooke ‘concerned’ and RJ pissed at this other son of Brooke’s.

Damnit I was gonna say soras Will or Lizzie and pair him with Jack but they’re both related to him. We need more Spectras . 

Thanks @Anna Yolei for setting me straight on details. Can’t believe this was after Darla’s death. Taylor seems so together that I thought it was before!

[Anna Yolei]

9 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Yeah, the show should’ve had let the maternity secret percolate longer as Taylor knew Jack was Brooke’s biologically and Brooke immediately weaponized it and zeroed in on her alcoholism.

The other thing I would have liked is if Nick had let Taylor in on the secret from the beginning instead of his He-Man bullshit of "protecting" her. It's not like Taylor has qualms about lying to Brooke's face about important shit. Unlike the lie about Stephen dying in Paris, Brooke would have brought this one on entirely on herself and I would have fully supported Taylor.

Granted, no one could have predicted this RL tragedy, but I find it grosser that TIIC went full steam ahead with the death of Phoebe almost a year to the day after he died. Like, WHY? They could have just kept Phoebe off the canvas as a big time singer and found some other reason for Steffy to bang Rick.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ashley Abbott was engaged to Ridge Forrester. Okay. What was she doing in LA? Did Jabot open a satellite office?

So Phoebe and Rick were a thing at one time. Ehhh, weren't they kind of related?

Holey moley, that Rick looked to me like he was about 35. And he was trying to move on Ashley? Whee!

Whatever happened to that office Ridge had? It was huge.

Pshht, Taylor had some nerve calling Brooke bonkers. Guess she never looked in a mirror. 😼

What is this thing Brooke was arguing about having to be with the father of one of her children? She had kids with three different men, didn't she? Was she destined to be with all her baby daddies? Heh, maybe Taylor was right. Brooke was a little whacky.

[Snaporaz]

^Ashley was working at FC developing a line of fragrances or BeLieF 2.0 or something.  Before she moved to LA, she and Rick were involved while they were both living in Paris. Or was it London?  One of the two.  Years later, JY's Rick and Caroline went to Genoa City for some reason, and Rick introduced himself to grown-up Abby.  I was hoping she would remind him that he was her almost-stepdad and almost step-brother, but they both acted like they'd never met.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Snaporaz

[TobinAlbers]

No doubt, I adore the Bill and Liam Father/Son relationship but damned if WH didn't make me feel for Thorne and what Liam being his son meant to him. He absolutely sold the whole range of emotions of thinking about the plans for another child with Darla, introducing Aly to her brother, having a purpose in his life in building a relationship with a child he just found out about.  It was really cute that even after learning he wasn't the father his instinct was to take Liam home like an abused puppy after seeing how Bill was treating him.

But seriously, Stephanie and Ridge- listen to Thorne. The man is still lost and reeling and all you can do is give pained expressions? Just sad how that family treated him. And isn't it funny how WH's speech is basically outlining how he and Thorne have been treated and all the things he ticked off were basically all the story potential Liam as his son would give him but that he's being denied? Too bad they didn't have it be they think he's Thorne's son and then after a few months of bonding they find out that Bill is his dad but he remains super close to Thorne. Didn't even throw him that bone.

And then we get over to the Liam /Bill scenes and I gotta say, SC was working it but DD was also killing it. The subtle moment where Bill is obviously gutpunched by the 'Handsome is as Handsome Does' line and he has to quickly cover some deep emotions where he was taken back in time. I had forgotten some of details of Kelly Hopkins and I like the shades they gave her. She sounds like an ambitious Forrester model (Sasha, Maya) who also could genuinely love and care for her son. Bill talking about how he tried to stay connected but that she shut him out was interesting. (Still want Sharon Case to play her if they ever do flashbacks or Liam at death's door)

Steffy/Oliver. They had potential.  What could've been. He did throw a nice nugget for her to think about in that he wasn't sure she even knew what would make her happy with her moping down in the basement. But Oliver was looking good looking a lil' more manly with his nicer haircut. Still a crime that they offed Aly and didn't keep her with Oliver and move into a triangle with bad boy grown up lil Deacon.

Good show today. Next up- The return of the Avants and Zende draaaagggs Julius.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The closed captioning said Zack but wasn't that Oliver or did Oliver have a twin brother?

I liked Steffy's hair in this episode. It looked fresh and natural. IMO she should've stuck with that look instead of going with the awful wigs.

How did Liam find out Bill was his daddy? Was it the same basically bogus way Flo found out she was a Logan?
 
So Thorne had wanted to be Liam's papa. Awww. Bless his heart. 🙄

Did this Kelly Hopkins ever appear as a character on the show or was she only backstory?

Ridge and Stephanie's glee at Liam not turning out to be a Forrester seemed icky to me. Did Liam have cooties or something? 🤔

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Ridge and Stephanie's glee at Liam not turning out to be a Forrester seemed icky to me. Did Liam have cooties or something? 🤔

Considering that Thomas and Steffy are members of the Forresters (even though not by blood), they have no reason to act as if their progeny aren't worse than Liam.

[CharlizeCat]

That's interesting. Taylor has a brother named Zack. He made a brief appearance back in the day. He was a "bad boy" type who romanced the old Felicia.  IIRC, he was involved in some minor"low life" criminal activities and he and Felicia were going to run off together. I don't remember what became of him. 

Kelly Hopkins was never a character on the show.  Just spoken of in past tense. 

Well, of course, Stephanie wouldn't approve of Liam, as he's a bastard child. Also, she was denied of her MIL duties of controlling the relationship between Kelly and Thorne and giving the poor woman the requisite browbeating and degrading. You know that Queen Stephanie would never approve of accepting a lowly FC model as being good enough for her precious son. But then, it was Thorne, so who cares? 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Re "Zack," I went and checked the episode on CBS.com and yep, the CC shows the character name as Zack. So then I looked at the character profiles on Soap Central and lo and behold, Zack Conroy is the name of the actor who played Oliver. D'oh! Odd mistake for the closed captioning service to make since no one in the episode referred to him as Zack. Where would they have gotten that from?

Now if it was his first appearance and the character's name hadn't been revealed yet I could see them not showing a name for him at all but that was not the case. Oliver had been around for several months by then.

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Kelly Hopkins was never a character on the show.  Just spoken of in past tense. 

Huh. Is it known for sure that she's dead? In my soap watching experience they usually don't give characters full names unless they've appeared or will appear at some point. Now that would be a huge story if Liam's mommy showed up. Maybe Bill somehow absconded her to a secret clinic in Switzerland and after she recovered she lost her memory or something. Yeah, it could happen. 😏

Like I said upthread, B&B should go ahead and go full Passions-style campy since they're close to being a running joke anyway. IMO, of course.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, CharlizeCat said:

Well, of course, Stephanie wouldn't approve of Liam, as he's a bastard child. 

As was Ridge. 

[CountryGirl]

@TobinAlbers,  your summation of yesterday's episode was so spot-on.

It's absolutely criminal Thorne (and WH) wasn't given so much more to do as he was clearly capable and Winsor brought such a depth to the role that his predecessors, no matter how pretty, just didn't possess. While I love the chemistry between DD and SC, there was far more storyline with having Liam be a Forrester instead. Especially as it would have kept him out of Steffy's orbit and Bill got another grown son when Wyatt came along a few years later.

But it wasn't to be and Don and Scott definitely sold their scenes as newly-found (and not liking it one iota) father and son.

SC definitely deserved his Emmy that year, but why wasn't DD nominated? That moment when Liam said: "Handsome is as handsome does" alone (which was clearly something Kelly said to Bill once upon a time) and so much conveyed on Bill's face in that moment. Pain, heartache, and loss. Wistfulness and love. For just a fraction of a second, the tough, cynical veneer slipped and we saw a glimpse of a younger, vulnerable Bill. 

And later, Bill smiling in response to Liam punching him (and the punches were as fake then as they are now) and the little glimmer of "maybe this kid can be mine after all." 

$ Bill Spencer is ever an enigma.

Also, that little moment where Hope and Katie discuss Hope's AWOL father, Deacon.

Hope: "I can't help but wonder what I would do or say if my father suddenly appeared."

Katie: "What would you want to say?"

Hope: "Go away before anybody sees you and...maybe I'd say, take me with you." The childlike longing to know her stranger-father in her tone. And again, show really effed up with missing the boat on keeping SK's Deacon. We could have seen him navigating being Hope's father, sparring with Bill and Ridge, and we all saw the flirting going on with Katie years later, not to mention his chemistry with Brooke. 

KM's Hope was seriously the living embodiment of a Disney princess here. She could have played Rapunzel if they had done a live action version of Tangled back then.

 

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Huh. Is it known for sure that she's dead? In my soap watching experience they usually don't give characters full names unless they've appeared or will appear at some point. Now that would be a huge story if Liam's mommy showed up. Maybe Bill somehow absconded her to a secret clinic in Switzerland and after she recovered she lost her memory or something. Yeah, it could happen. 😏

If she does come back she'll be revealed to be crazier than Quinn in order to redeem her. No thanks. And she'd have a hell of a mountain to climb with Liam in leaving him after the description of her final days and they hell she went through and that he witnessed.

But it would be nice to have a woman on for Thorne or be a fresh love connection for Bill.

I've always thought that they could go with the Liam had a twin that Kelly gave up (or didn't realize she had ala Sharon on Y&R with Cassie and Mariah and Iva on ATWT with Lily and Rose).

Another route is if Liam's stepfather had another family before he married Kelly or after she died then Liam would having a step-sister or step-brother deciding to embrace their step-brother now that he's rich and a Spencer heir.  Step-brother could go after Steffy or Thomas and step-sister could go for Wyatt or Thomas or Steffy.  It'd be interesting if Liam's step-father died leaving a little 'woeful' step sister for Liam to want to help out only for her to be revealed to be a hellion.

[Anna Yolei]

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Another route is if Liam's stepfather had another family before he married Kelly or after she died then Liam would having a step-sister or step-brother deciding to embrace their step-brother now that he's rich and a Spencer heir.  Step-brother could go after Steffy or Thomas and step-sister could go for Wyatt or Thomas or Steffy.  It'd be interesting if Liam's step-father died leaving a little 'woeful' step sister for Liam to want to help out only for her to be revealed to be a hellion.

By all accounts on the one time Liam spoke about his stepfather, Mr. Cooper was a decent man and he had a decent relationship with him. I see no reason why they couldn't bring on one of those step-sibs or step-cousins or anyone from Liam's life pre-Spencer.

Of course, I wanted that for Wyatt too once upon a time. Be careful what you wish for on B&B.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Of course, I wanted that for Wyatt too once upon a time. Be careful what you wish for on B&B.

Wyatt. Pshht. I'm still waiting for it to come out that he isn't Bill's kid and that Quinn's been lying all along. I don't get why Bill just took her word for it, knowing what a psycho she is. Of course if Bradley B. did that then he'd turn around and make Wyatt a Forrester. Then Brooke would have to try to get with him. 😼

[TobinAlbers]

57 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wyatt. Pshht. I'm still waiting for it to come out that he isn't Bill's kid and that Quinn's been lying all along. I don't get why Bill just took her word for it, knowing what a psycho she is. Of course if Bradley B. did that then he'd turn around and make Wyatt a Forrester. Then Brooke would have to try to get with him. 😼

THIS! This is the story I've wanted for Wyatt and Quinn as it a) has nothing to do with Liam b) has everything to do with Wyatt  c) would give both actors a showcase to explore the unhealthier aspects of their relationship as well as Quinn's mental health issues and d) would help examine Wyatt as someone independent of Bill and Quinn.

And then the search for Wyatt's parents which may end up with them finding out that gasp! he's Liam's twin that Quinn stole as revenge on Kelly and to 'have a piece of Bill'. She faked his birth certificate and details to make everyone think he was the kid she gave birth to but she actually either lost the baby or actually did abort the child either resulting in her depression and breakdown. 

Sadly, Wyatt can't be a Forrester or a Spectra as he's slept with Steffy and Sally.

Now if he was actually Bill Sr.'s other son and actually Bill's brother and so a rightful heir to Spencer publishing...that would be something.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Sadly, Wyatt can't be a Forrester or a Spectra as he's slept with Steffy and Sally.

But Steffy isn't a biological Forrester. It'd be the usual incest-adjacent nonsense this show trades in but technically they wouldn't be any more related than Steffy and Rick.

I really like the idea of Wyatt being Bill Sr.'s kid. Imagine Quinn deciding to help Wyatt take over SP by revealing who his real father is. Wow!

[TobinAlbers]

37 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

But Steffy isn't a biological Forrester. It'd be the usual incest-adjacent nonsense this show trades in but technically they wouldn't be any more related than Steffy and Rick.

Ah, sorry I meant he couldn’t be Thorne’s since he is still Ridge’s half brother via Stephanie so Wyatt would still be Steffy’s (half) cousin - which you could get away with if they were European royals. 

And actually he couldn’t be a Forrester as he’s slept with Ivy too. Wyatt’s been around!

I like the idea of Wyatt being Bill Sr’s son for $Bill to have to call him brother and Liam to call him Uncle Wyatt. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Just watched today's episode and oh my, I'd forgotten about Nicole and her struggle weave. 😼 (Meanwhile, when Reign Edwards has appeared on the series "Snowfall" her hair has looked fine. Hmmm. Maybe Victoria Rowell had a point about the CBS soaps.)

Sally & Thomas. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! I wish the show would put them back together. They could be a supervillain couple.

Meh, I always thought it was selfish of Maya to use Nicole as a surrogate. But OTOH, Nicole volunteered to do it, so...them's the breaks?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

And actually he couldn’t be a Forrester as he’s slept with Ivy too. Wyatt’s been around!

Aw man, Ivy ruined my plans! Bad Ivy! 😉

[Gam2]

This show reminded me how truly awful Nicole’s wigs were over her 5-6 head. The acting was awful, the hair was awful and I was disgusted by the entire story line.

[Angeleyes]

I always liked Sally and this version of Thomas. It sucked that the writers kept having to pull them apart due to the availability of the actors. Then we got the whole Thomas recast and they act like they barely know each other. I also hate what they’ve done to Sally’s character. She deserves better. 
 

I wish they’d show some of the older episodes with more of the siblings including OG Felicia. I always thought she came across as having a cool vibe, but they squandered her character. The later recast just made it worse. 
 

The episodes with Kristen and Clarke (the nude photo scandal) or even Kristen and Tony’s love story would be good. 

[Anna Yolei]

3 hours ago, Gam2 said:

This show reminded me how truly awful Nicole’s wigs were over her 5-6 head. The acting was awful, the hair was awful and I was disgusted by the entire story line.

And who knew Brad Bell had it in him to pen an even worse baby story than that one? 😉

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Whip? Good grief, these ridiculous soap opera names. Did he have brothers named Fry, Scallop, and Mash? 😼

So who was this Erica person that apparently was trying to stalk Amber and Rick? Bold move, Bradley, using the name of one the most iconic soap characters of all time for an ersatz day player. Sorry but the Highlander said it best: There can only be one!

Hmm, Antonio was nice to gaze upon. Was he actually Zende's father?

OMG, Brooke truly has been a horrible mother. When she wasn't screwing one daughter's husband she was doing another daughter's boyfriend. But hey, looks like Stephanie promoted her from The Slut from the Valley to The Whore of Beverly Hills so at least she had that going for her. 🙄

I'm amazed Bridget can stand to be around Hope given the circumstances of Hope's conception. Yeesh, what an insanely messy family.

Quote

And who knew Brad Bell had it in him to pen an even worse baby story than that one? 😉

I've learned never to overestimate Brad's talents. I think he's proven he can always do worse.  😒

Edited June 24, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[CharlizeCat]

Erica is the daughter of Sheila Carter and James Warwick.  I want to say that her birth name was Mary after James' mother, but Sheila changed it later to Erica so the girl would be named after Eric. Sheila schemed and pushed and pushed that poor girl to go after Rick.  I don't remember how everything played out, but in the very end, when Sheila was send to prison, Mary/Erica more or less disowned her.

Kristen and Tony adopted Zende during their honeymoon to Africa. They toured an orphanage, which I think was to meet orphans who'd lost their parents to AIDS. AIDS was the big "social" story line at the time as Tony was diagnosed HIV positive.

Also, Whip was Oliver's cousin.  You'll love this. Whip's given name was Whipple. Yep. Whipple Jones. Like the cranky old guy who sold Charmin.

Man, I forgot how hot young Deacon was back in the day!

I know Jennifer Finnegan is no longer on the show, but that episode where Bridget found out about Deacon and Brooke and ended up kicking him out of the house was a really good episode. JF killed it! Too bad we probably won't see it except on You Tube. 

[Runningwild]

So glad I watched today. This was one of my favorite times of B&B. Loved me some Deacon. And Antonio. Blanking on the actor’s name but he previously played on GL as a boyfriend of Michelle Bauer. He got her mother’s heart when Maureen died. 
 

I miss Stephanie so much. I think the show does too. Stephanie/Brooke scenes were the best!

[TobinAlbers]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

OMG, Brooke truly has been a horrible mother. When she wasn't screwing one daughter's husband she was doing another daughter's boyfriend. But hey, looks like Stephanie promoted her from The Slut from the Valley to The Whore of Beverly Hills so at least she had that going for her. 🙄

Over the years I’ve gained an affinity for Brooke because the woman has been through it, survived it, and is still thriving but she’s such a hot mess. Brooke never learns. The whole Deacon affair and Hope conception should’ve been her turning point in how she makes decisions in her life but years later when Brooke found herself pregnant by Bill and scrambling to have Eric marry her and claim the baby you see that she still has work to do. Granted there were mitigating circumstances of Katie initially pushing them together but instead of knowing better and backing off the situation entirely, she slid right into another messy trap that nearly destroyed her sister twice.

This episode was a showcase to the complexity of Stephanie and the complexity of the Brooke/Stephanie relationship. In spite of herself, Stephanie had conceded Brooke loved her kids and even she didn’t think Brooke would be capable of a betrayal like this to her own beloved daughter. I think part of the reason for Stephanie’s viciousness towards Brooke in this episode was that she felt she’d been played by Brooke despite all Stephanie’s misgivings about Brooke, the other half is because she truly loved Bridget like a daughter and was hurting for her and the pain she knew was coming. Then you have Brooke actually playing the victim about her ‘sacrifice’ and yeah, I get why Stephanie totally lost it on her. Brooke really was at her most selfish here because it’s one thing when you’re fighting another woman over a man but another when you have an affair with your daughter’s husband and conceive a child and think you have any ground to be the anguished heroine. Brooke took a big hit in character with this affair and yet it was a dynamite soapy story that had repercussions for years and yet unfortunately the show never truly fully capitalized on. Bridget should be onscreen and Brooke’s main rival with the friction between them crackling and Bridget and Hope having a complex relationship as well with Bridget loving Hope but trying not to resent Hope, Hope wanting Bridget’s love and approval but resenting that she’s resented through no fault of her own, and Bridget maybe even undermining the Hope/Brooke relationship by trying to establish herself as the stable family she can count on and Brooke wanting to encourage closeness between the sisters but suspicious of Bridget’s motives.

Deacon was indeed hit back in the day but now that he’s been with Nikki, Victoria, and Phyllis over on Y&R and Quinn on B&B he’s lost his allure. Neither Katie nor Brooke should want him unless he’s had some serious testing on a weekly basis 😂

Erica would be perfect for Thomas. Would also be hilarious considered Sheila threatened to snap baby Thomas’ neck that he ends up with her daughter.

JF (Bridget) is another B&B Emmy winner (3 straight years!) and they really should've shown her winning episode for this year since it connects to the affair and baby Hope story.

 

[CountryGirl]

I hated the Breacon storyline because of what it did to Brooke. Just another round of her being slut-shamed and dragged through the mud when there were plenty of characters, Stephanie included, that had had their share of peccadillos with nary a consequence.

That having said, my goodness, KKL and SK were 🔥🔥🔥. I would have much preferred if they had Bridget flirt with and fall for Deacon and him flirting a bit back, but him ultimately dismissing her as the very young woman she was back then and he fell for Brooke instead. There could have been that angst of Bridget being upset at being upstaged by (in her eyes) much older mother but nothing compared to what played out on screen. 

And those scenes with KKL and SF crackled yesterday. 

Every time they met, it was like Clash of the Titans.

 

That moment when she grabbed Brooke and forced her to take a good, long, hard look at herself in the mirror was EPIC.

"That's NO halo and you're no heroine!"

Just outstanding moments, which reminds me of the two thoughts I've always had when it comes to Brooke and Stephanie.

1 -  I've always felt Stephanie resented Brooke for being able to be so comfortable in her own skin and her sexuality, attracting men at the drop of a hat, whereas Stephanie was so repressed with the proverbial stick up her ass and got Eric by getting him drunk and wooing him with her father's money.

2 - I've always felt Stephanie secretly wanted Brooke all for herself.