B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[TigerLynx]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

Ally was treated like roadkill.

Neither Phoebe nor Ally should have been killed.  Rick and Bridget should not have been written out of the show.  They are legacy children.  The entire point of legacy children is to continue the ongoing story.  All of these characters conceptions and births were main storylines.  That alone should provide the writers with ideas for the characters for years.  Instead we are stuck with the idiotic never ending Steffy/Liam/Hope triangle that NEVER came even close to being as good as Ridge/Taylor/Brooke, or even worse stupid conversations that never go anywhere like the one between Zoe, Flo, and Xander.

Also, if they had kept CJ and Mark around, we would have characters that aren't related to everyone else on canvas.

Edited August 25, 2019 by TigerLynx

[Anna Yolei]

4 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

If Ridge fixes his mouth to say a fucking word to Brooke, I hope she tosses his greasy, messy ass over the side as well.  THAT would be the perfect ending to Bridge, a pairing that should have ended YEARS ago.

Ridge has had at least two alterations with Rick that I can recall and one of those left Rick temporarily paralyzed. Not that Rick didn't deserve what he got back then because BOY was he an entitlement prince too, but Ridge really has no grounds to judge Brooke when he has literally been where she's been. I was fully in support of Ridge socking Rick and I support this too, even if Brooke had done it on purpose.

6 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

I am not, and never have been a Bridge supporter, but this is not how I wanted this incarnation to end. I wanted them to break up organically; for reasons that would stick.

Same. I hate that we got this shit ass story just to end it with the one thing I've come to find more tiresome than the Triangle of Dumb: the "Brooke Logan is The Worst Person Ever" mantra being brought back. Nothing she's done comes anywhere close to the evil Thomas facilitated, and that includes the Deacon affair. 

5 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I love Hope but if she starts blaming herself for what happened to Thomas, I think I'm going to be done.

Can she have therapy? Like, at all?! I know sometimes the brain plays tricks on us when we're in the thick of depression but this is the same Hope Logan that sought out therapy after the first time she slept with Liam and realized nothing felt right about it. She knows what resources are out there.

But yes to this. I've forgiven this show for the stupid way Throoke were split up before their 6th month anniversary; the Breacon affair soon after; Ridget; Amber's own descent into obsession over Thomas (to which even she dodged a bullet!); The complete trashing of Nick; the entire Jack Marone story that was a top to bottom clusterfuck; everything ever done to Bridget and last but certainly not least the Triangle of Dumb ruining two legacy characters whose backgrounds lent for far more interesting plots than just copy-and-pasting the same story their mothers had for 3 decades. But seeing Hope play Sharon to Thomas's Adam Newman might tap me out for good.

I hope Bratley Bell enjoys that spot at the top of the ratings. I doubt it's going to last the way this show is going.

3 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Also, if they had kept CJ and Mark around, we would have characters that aren't related to everyone else on canvas.

Oh yeah, and add the slaughter of the Spectras to that list up there too.

What a waste.

[TigerLynx]

Think of the SLs they could have if Sally actually got screen time, and CJ and Mark were still in town?

Instead how many years has the triangle from hell completely wasted Steffy/Liam/Hope, and how many pointless characters (Zoe, Flo, Xander, Shana the most recent ones) suck up screen time to eventually be written out.

[Gam2]

27 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Think of the SLs they could have if Sally actually got screen time, and CJ and Mark were still in town?

Instead how many years has the triangle from hell completely wasted Steffy/Liam/Hope, and how many pointless characters (Zoe, Flo, Xander, Shana the most recent ones) suck up screen time to eventually be written out.

From your mouth to the writers’ ears. However, they wouldn’t listen to anything you said or any of us said because they don’t care that they’re destroying this soap. 

[Anna Yolei]

34 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Think of the SLs they could have if Sally actually got screen time, and CJ and Mark were still in town?

Darlene Conley's health started going downhill around '04 or '05 IIRC, so I think she wouldn't have had much screen time even if Bratley hadn't killed off Darla to pay Jack Wagner's salary.

But there was no reason why the two of them couldn't have carried on the legacy in some capacity. The show loves having families fight over exes, right? Boom, a triangle with Bridget. Still ick but preferable to watching her date her mother's leftovers. Plus one of them would be available to date Caroline once she came to the show.

[mightysparrow]

The only legacy child Bell cares about is Steffy.  He's dragged the triangle of doom on and on and on and on for her sake.  When Hope was gone, Bell just inserted another person into Hope's spot.  Bell seems determined to convince the audience that Steffy is the most wonderful, desirable, fantastic woman, all appearances to the contrary.

My spidey senses tells me that JMW is the one who lobbies for the TOD.  That's one of the reasons KM left the show (along with all the hatemail and death threats she received).  Scott Clifton has expressed his displeasure with it.  That's why he was onboard with Rape Cabin. 

JMW seems to have a lot invested in being the 'hot' chick on the show.  Maybe that's why she's started fucking with her face and insists on wearing dead animals on her head.  Her vociferous fanbase doesn't really do her any favours by keeping the delusion going that Hauxdi is the STAR of the show.  She's not.

[CharlizeCat]

All the above combined with the Kardashian-inspired wardrobe, which has appeared post maternity leave. 

You'd think that is JMW wants to emerge as the new "hot chick" on the show, that she'd want for Steffy to have a hot powerful man all to herself. I've always thought that she and Liam seem so mismatched. Steffy really needs a $Bill-type guy of her own.

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, CharlizeCat said:

All the above combined with the Kardashian-inspired wardrobe, which has appeared post maternity leave. 

You'd think that is JMW wants to emerge as the new "hot chick" on the show, that she'd want for Steffy to have a hot powerful man all to herself. I've always thought that she and Liam seem so mismatched. Steffy really needs a $Bill-type guy of her own.

I agree that it makes no sense for Hauxdilox to be so DETERMINED to hang on to Liam because they have absolutely nothing in common.  I can't recall a scene where the two of them sit around talking about anything other than how 'quirky' they are.  The tragedy of Hauxdilox (and for the viewer) is that she is so obsessed with WINNING and defeating the hated Logans that she's tied herself to a man who doesn't want her and who she probably really doesn't want either.  The speed with which she hooked up with Wyatt when Liam disappeared is proof of that.

Wyatt REALLY cared for her.  He admired her and supported her and made her feel good about herself.  Hauxdi and Wyatt could have really been something.  But as soon as Liam reappeared, her obsession kicked in and she kicked Wyatt to the curb.

Hauxdi and Thomas really ARE Taytots.  They think obsession is normal. 

[ByaNose]

I still think it's funny that SC is the leading man on the show. He barely gets a day off and hasn't been on the back burner in years. Whereas others have fallen to the wayside or used as a priest/lawyer for weddings. Brad Bell has loved Liam & SC at the expense of other actors. Even when it was the Ridge & Brooke show you always had Eric & Stephanie causing problems. It was a little more balanced.

[TigerLynx]

11 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Bell seems determined to convince the audience that Steffy is the most wonderful, desirable, fantastic woman, all appearances to the contrary.

My spidey senses tells me that JMW is the one who lobbies for the TOD.

No, Brad Bell has been trying to convince people for decades that Brooke, no matter what she does, it the most wonderful, etc., woman in the world.  Just like he keeps trying to sale Ridge and Brooke as a great couple in love.

JMW does not want Steffy with Liam.  She has been asking for years for the writers to let Steffy move on and be with someone else.

The character who has actually had the most screen time in the last year is Hope.  She has been on more than Steffy, Liam, Ridge, and Brooke.

[Angeleyes]

Anyone else wish they’d bring back that cute doctor that Steffy had some chemistry with a while back? It would be far more interesting to see her with someone new vs continuing to go back to the same mistakes. 

[CountryGirl]

On 8/24/2019 at 11:19 AM, sugarbaker design said:

One of my favorite old-school so-bad-its-good BB scenes is when Ridge and Rick are fighting on a rooftop, Rick, of course goes flying off the roof.  Ridge then leans over the railing and yells "RICK!!!".  The scene was so horrifically acted it was featured on Talk Soup.

So I was expecting Ridge to peek over that hedge and yell "THOMAS!!!"

That scene was so bad it was good. And I loved the special cut version scene here:

[RuntheTable]

Mascara stings when it runs in your eyes...just sayin @CountryGirl. 

Rick's scream at the end? As a bird watcher/lover, that was an insult to the Crow population. 

Poor RM...great bass guitar player though

[CountryGirl]

I've been OOT on one last summer vacation but I did manage to get caught up last night.

ITA with you @RuntheTable, that as much as loved seeing Thomas go over the cliff, I fear the absolute worst for Brooke. Because you just know she will suddenly be the Big Bad and it will be poor widdle Thomas just as it's always been poor widdle Hauxdi.

As wrong as this seems, I would have much preferred it to have been Brooke to be sent over the cliff. Ridge would have undoubtedly stuck to his stance of defending his son, no matter that he saw the full scope of just how evil and degranged he is and Bill could have been snapped out of the fog he's been in with thinking Katie is the best he can do and flown to Brooke's side. 

But instead, we're gonna get Thomas whitewashing and Brooke being made to pay for defending her own child. Thomas was physically restraining Hope. I mean, the sheer fact that he put his HANDS on her and this after attempting to kidnap her and the gaslighting of her. There isn't a mother in the world who wouldn't have charged in there and done what Brooke did. 

And I don't want to her how Brooke should have called the police or restrained herself when Thomas has shown zero restraint where Hope is concerned from the moment he set foot back in town.

And so help me if Hope is written to feel guilty after what his psychotic ass did to her? 

I may be right back to tuning out again.

[TigerLynx]

I'm a bad person.  I laughed when Thomas went over the cliff.  Then I thought, "Hey, Brooke while you are at it, could you push Ridge and Hope off to, then jump?  Please."

So, are the comments Bill, Justin, and Wyatt are making, the writers tossing the viewers a bone because Flo, Zoe, Xander, et al, sucked up all that screen time with their boring conversations and never got what they really deserved?

Bill and Katie either won't get married because Ridge and Brooke are going to crash and burn again, or Bill and Katie will be married just in time for Bill to cheat with Brooke again.

[Cindylou]

HOT DAMN!!!! Dr. Lujack makes all the other men on the show (ok maybe not Bill) look sad.  Bell better not jack him up!!!  that man is FINE!

oh and yeah, Ridge is an ASS

[Gam2]

Well, we knew it was coming, didn’t we? Ridge blamed Brooke for Tom’s fall. Of course, nothing that Tom has done have any bearing on what happened and why, right Ridge? You are one sorry son of a bitch and so is your son.

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I'm a bad person.  I laughed when Thomas went over the cliff.  Then I thought, "Hey, Brooke while you are at it, could you push Ridge and Hope off to, then jump?  Please.".

Well, if you are bad, then so am I because I cackled seeing that mofo fall.

Karma, bitch.

And I love Brooke and Hope but I am cracking up over your comment about Brooke pushing Ridge and Hope off then jumping. But seriously, how amazing would it have been to have Ridge get there in time to grab for Thomas and both of them fell off and were never seen or heard from again.

ETA: I'm calling it now. Thomas will feign amnesia or will have amnesia for real and then pretend he is still in the dark to milk it/manipulate, etc, for weeks/months until someone (Douglas probably) busts him again.

Edited August 26, 2019 by CountryGirl

[bannana]

So here we go, Hope is now doubting that she was in danger, and saying that Thomas was just trying to say he was sorry.  Ugh. 😞

[Anna Yolei]

19 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

My spidey senses tells me that JMW is the one who lobbies for the TOD.  That's one of the reasons KM left the show (along with all the hatemail and death threats she received). 

"!"

I don't doubt that happened because fans have an irrational hatred for Hope, but I'd never heard that. Yikes! 😞

But naw, it's Bell who just like triangles. He had damn near ruined the show dragging up the Brooke and Taylor shit into the 2000s, substituting Ridge for Nick to get his money's worth out of Crap Wagner and then having Wyatt and Liam fight over Hope. If all three of them left, Bell would create a triangle between Pam, Eric and Quinn. 😐

35 minutes ago, bannana said:

So here we go, Hope is now doubting that she was in danger, and saying that Thomas was just trying to say he was sorry.  Ugh. 😞

I'm so tired.

[Valmarmar]

3 hours ago, Cindylou said:

HOT DAMN!!!! Dr. Lujack makes all the other men on the show (ok maybe not Bill) look sad.  Bell better not jack him up!!!  that man is FINE!

oh and yeah, Ridge is an ASS

YAY !!!!!!!!!!!  Irizarry !!!!!  Missed You !!!!

[NinjaPenguins]

Honestly, does anyone think Thomas was there with Hope to do anything other than kidnap, assault, or maybe push her off the cliff when she refused to stay married to him? Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining, Bell.

[jenrising]

I know it would look suspicious but Brooke, just consider shoving your husband right off the same cliff. He deserves it almost as much as his son did.

Edited August 26, 2019 by jenrising

[Gam2]

Hope has been the weakest link in this entire story line. Please, give that woman a backbone for once and make her stand up for herself and her family. Weakness is NOT attractive, Hopeless.

[Waldo13]

So we found our that Lurch can’t fly. Too bad.  We found out that a 100+ pound woman can shove a 200+ pound man over a bluff.  We found out that there is no protective barrier from keeping someone from going over the bluff especially that there is a child in the house. 

I knew Ridge was going to blame Brooke for Thomas’ possible demise. I knew that Raggedy was going to blame herself for Thomas’ actions.  I feel sorry for Beth having a jellyfish for a mother.  Raggedy stood up to Flo but all her bluster tank is on empty.  

[Anna Yolei]

45 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

Hope has been the weakest link in this entire story line. Please, give that woman a backbone for once and make her stand up for herself and her family. Weakness is NOT attractive, Hopeless.

God, remember the good old days when we all thought Hope was too unrealistic about some of the things she spoke up around? Shit like demanding Steffy annul her marriage (lame joke as it was) so she could get married on her own time or telling Liam he better not be late to the Effiel Tower or else? Because I do and I'd kill to see any of that version of Hope Logan ever again.

Instead I'm reminded once again of ATWT's death spiral where the bubbly, airheaded but genuinely fun, lively Allison Stewart returned with a drug addiction out of nowhere and made even that dreary ass Mackenzie on Y&R look like Cha Cha Cha !FUN! in comparison. I didn't even like original recipe Allison any more than I liked original recipe Hope by the time Matula left, but damn.

Hope *is* the weakest link and it shouldn't be this way. Not when this is the most stable she and Liam have ever been. I didn't even want this ship to be revisited and now THIS is the crap keeping them apart.

All that said, the only person done dirtier than Hope narratively speaking is Steffy. When the hell does *she* get to chew out Flo and Thomas? I know she showed her whole ass earlier but to say she's the new Brooke Logan that Bell is propping, she's been distinctly absent from this story.

[CharlizeCat]

I hope that when Sludge finally comes home from the hospital, that Brooke has changed all the locks. 

[mightysparrow]

Brooke needs to give Justin a call and see if he can make Hope's annulment a 'buy one get one free deal'.  She can annul her marriage to Ridge on the grounds of fraud.  He's been pretending to be a man all these years and now we know that's not true.

It made me sick to see Brooke look so meek while that BRUTE pulled that revisionist FUCKERY.  She should be shouting from the top of the HOLLYWOOD sign, 'YES, I pushed the motherfucker who had his hands on my daughter, over the cliff.  AND I'D DO IT AGAIN!!!

As for Hope...girl, you REALLY want me to throw deuces, don't you.

Bell is counting on the 'I HATE BROOKE' brigade to bring in the numbers, ratings wise.  But I have a feeling that he's mistaken noise for numbers.  That bump in the ratings is going to turn from a mountain into a molehill VERY quickly.

Edited August 27, 2019 by mightysparrow

[TigerLynx]

Most of the "I Hate Brooke Brigade" stopped watching years ago.

Brad Bell simply does not have his father talent.  Stephanie, Caroline, Brooke and Taylor were very different characters, none of them were perfect, and they all had fanbases.

Brad Bell and the current writers have stupidly tried to force Steffy/Liam/Hope into being a new version of Ridge/Taylor/Brooke, and it has never worked.

[TobinAlbers]

11 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

That scene was so bad it was good. And I loved the special cut version scene here:

Rewatching that...I can’t fault Ridge for throwing his ass. Rick was the one who got physical- grabbing Ridge’s arm, sucker punching him, and then putting an old man in a choke hold. Ricks ass rightfully got got by his big brother. Can’t handle grown folks throwing hands? Don’t start none won’t be none.

And damned if Ron Moss was able to convey actual conflicted anguish when he yelled after Rick as he lay on the ground. Compare that to TK ‘s Ridge when he saw Thomas tumble. The man looked more pissed off that OMG my firstborn may be dead! Realistically having lost Phoebe and his beloved mother, story wise, Ridge should be frantic about losing Thomas- except they haven’t really like each other much the last few years and Ridge knew his son had creepy tendencies. I never felt that he was trying to bridge that divide or that upon his return as a widowed father that they had made a turn in their relationship. 

I would love this show if they surprised us with Thomas in the limbo between life and death and we got a surprise appearance by Caroline reading Thomas for filth for what he’s doing to their son. Or if they really want to surprise us an appearance by angel Phoebe who begs her big brother to change his ways.

[Anna Yolei]

25 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Bell is counting on the 'I HATE BROOKE' brigade to bring in the numbers, ratings wise.  But I have a feeling that he's mistaken noise for numbers.  That bump in the ratings is going to turn from a mountain into a molehill VERY quickly.

I think it's telling that the only people cheering for B&B's rise to the top of Shit Mountain were the Y&R board and that was because they just are bored out of their mind watching Kyle and Lola suck face for 40 minutes a day.

One can hope that another show quickly overtakes this and Bratley is slapped back into reality.

8 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Brad Bell simply does not have his father talent.  Stephanie, Caroline, Brooke and Taylor were very different characters, none of them were perfect, and they all had fanbases.

He doesn't even have the talent that his sister-in-law Maria has. My one biggest fault with her for the time she spent on Y&R was the slaughterfest the show.turned into....or rather, the people she chose to kill off. But at least then, the Abbott's were a.family, Billy was decent and I can count the new faces unconnected to a major family on one hand.

Frankly, I don't know why she hasn't been on B&B's payroll since Sony dropped her from U&R. She CREATED Sally Spectra--if anyone is going to bring back that group or a similar new rival, it'll be her.

As for the triangle thing, the problem is that none of it ever felt organic and until this year I couldn't buy Liam as caring for either one of them. I still don't believe Steffy cares for him as anything but a carnival prize and I still puzzle as to why Hope ever gave Liam another thought once Wyatt came into the picture. Ridge was a terrible waffle but it felt like the love he had for each woman was genuine; Liam just went with the easiest one to deal with that week.

[TigerLynx]

13 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

Liam just went with the easiest one to deal with that week.

Hee!!!

It really does play like Liam is, "My red t-shirt is in the laundry, okay I will wear the blue one instead."

When Ridge and Taylor were married the first time, Brooke tried everything she could to interfere, and it didn't work.  When Taylor returned from the dead the first time, Ridge asked Taylor for a divorce because he wanted to be with Brooke.  When Ridge and Taylor were married, had Thomas, Steffy, and Phoebe, Brooke again did everything she could to interfere, and it didn't work.  In those three instances, I felt Ridge chose who he wanted to be with, and stuck to it.  I have NEVER believed that with Liam.

Say what you will about RM's acting, I always thought he genuinely loved all his children, and had a warmth and charm that TK does not.  Also, I commend RM and DD for staying in such great shape.  That gets harder to do as you age, and they could put some of the younger guys on this show to shame.  Kind of reminds me of when Ricardo Montablan was Kahn (original Kahn) in Star Trek 2.  There was a lot of speculation as to whether that was really his physique on display.  It was, and quite a few of the younger cast members were embarrassed because not only did he look better with his shirt off (not in the never ending gross Thomas way), he could also out bench press all of them.

It really annoys me that Bill is only now making an appearance in this SL.  From beginning to end, this SL was just horrible, boring, and flat out stupid.

[mightysparrow]

Ridge isn't just a bully, a BRUTE and a slob, he's also a bold-faced, lying sack of shit.  He had the face to stand there and talk about how he was rooting for those two crazy kids, Thomas and Hope, to get together and raise Douglas together.  Ridge has NEVER given a shit about Thomas and he doesn't hide his contempt for Hope.  He wanted Hope to marry Thomas because he wanted to eliminate an alternate resting place for Liam's dick.  Ridge is as delusional as his ex-wife because Liam had to be DRUGGED before he was ready to fuck Hauxdilox.  The triangle of doom might have been over with a long time ago if Hauxdi's lunatic parents hadn't accepted the truth:  their daughter AIN'T all that.  And Ridge should realize that just because HE wants to fuck his daughter, it doesn't mean that every man alive wants to.

It sure was nice to see VI again.  I still miss All My Children.  Big mistake to have VI in the same scene with TK because it just reminds the viewer how UN-hot TK is.   Brooke should dump the greasy brute that's been weighing her down since arrived on the scene and meet the good doctor in the linen closet.

Edited to add:  Thank God for $Bill.  It's good to know that there are still some sane people on this show.  I don't know about anybody else, but he was speaking for ME when he said that Thomas deserved whatever bad shit happened to him.  I look forward to Bill cracking open a bottle of the good stuff and offering Brooke and nice stiff one (and a drink too!) to help her get over the mental abuse she's getting from the brute she's married to.  Like father, like son.

Edited August 27, 2019 by mightysparrow

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ditto comments upthread, it continues to amaze me how Steffy thought she was going to raise two toddlers next to a cliff with only some shrubbery as a barrier.

So now Hope will feel guilty and she'll postpone the annulment. Thomas probably won't be any condition to sign the papers any time soon anyway. Great job, Hope, provoking that psycho when you could've just let your lawyer and other intermediaries handle it.

Ugh, Ridge is still making excuses for his malevolent son. And basically accusing his wife of trying to murder her stepson. AFAIC, Brooke should tell dear hubby "And you could be next, a-hole. You keep trying to sacrifice my daughter for your children. Step back, mf-er."

Great seeing VI and TK in a scene together. Yo, Alicia Minshew! Come through!

Quote

Weakness is NOT attractive, Hopeless.

I'm starting to wonder if Hope enjoys playing the victim. It's like the neverending Perils of Pauline with her. Then she gets to act all tough for a minute and make ill-advised decisions that no one can talk her out of. Next she gets to be a martyr when her choices blow up in her face.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[bannana]

19 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

it continues to amaze me how Steffy thought she was going to raise two toddlers next to a cliff with only some shrubbery as a barrier.

Yeah, wow, if it is that easy to fall over the cliff, never have any outdoor barbecues, never let your children outside, never do any gardening!  It looked super easy for Thomas to tumble down to the beach.  Amazing that it has never happened before.  We did see Steffy crawl down her front pathway and grab at Liam's pant leg.  Thank goodness she didn't lunge after him on the other side of the house.  She'd be splayed out like Thomas.

I think it is pretty ridiculous that they had all of this happen at Steffy's house and she is not there.  Think of how much more dramatic it would have been if Steffy had been there, either to try to help Thomas get under control, or even if she had been the one to inadvertently push him over.

[Petunia13]

11 hours ago, NinjaPenguins said:

Honestly, does anyone think Thomas was there with Hope to do anything other than kidnap, assault, or maybe push her off the cliff when she refused to stay married to him? Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining, Bell.

IKR

[RuntheTable]

Well that show required a cold shower...….

As if watching three well dressed, comely men, sitting around discussing stuff wasn't enough, we then cut over to the LA hospital and get a look see at Vincent Irizarry! Goodness Show, even though you are sucking face right now, I must give you props for offering up such tasty treats. Justin, as always, put together, then we had Wyatt, who was rocking that black shirt and grey suit. And then we had Bill, who is looking so, so, good. It was nice of Show to frost that three layered testosterone laden cake with some nice Dr. Armstrong yummyness. Umm, Umm, good. My first exposure to VI was on Guiding Light as Nick Spaulding. I don't remember much about the character, but I do remember thinking VI was the Al Pacino of daytime. Not necessarily from an acting standpoint, but looks. Making matters worse, was right after Show, I watched a movie with Jason Momoa as Aquaman……...Yep. 

Ah, so refreshing. Unfortunately, it only lasted a few seconds before being doused by a bucket of manure known as Ridge Forrester. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Ridge, my man.....listen up pal, I want to lay this out very fucking carefully for you, so you will understand it. Now, I want you to put down the club, and please, release that lock you have on Brooke's hair. 

Your son is a creep. He is a rapist. He is a master manipulator. He is a murderer. You may have been unaware of some of these traits, but you certainly knew about a few. You also knew that your son has a long history of bad manners and bad behavior. You know he is Taylor's son too. Thomas has now been implicated in all manner of crimes, and most of those crimes were against Hope. Oh, you know who she is right? Brooke's daughter? Your wife's daughter? That girl you helped raise? The other injured party is your grandson Douglas. I cannot believe you don't remember him after you tried to say he was your son by Caroline. And if I am not mistaken didn't one of your son's aforementioned traits lead to the advent of Douglas? 

I am not saying that crimes against those you claim to love, and um...….remember, or maybe acknowledge, means Thomas should have been pushed over a cliff. But maybe, just maybe, if you had heeded the warnings of your wife and Dr. Sanchez, and made some kind of effort to find Thomas? I am wondering though, if you really did want to find him. Out of sight out of crime? No seaey, no guilty? Or maybe it was more about your embarrassment at something like this about your son leaking out? 

Whatever your reasons, that fact remains that you didn't act. Odds are you would not have found Thomas, but at least you would have put in some effort; done your due diligence as a father, a husband, a grandfather, and a stepdad. Instead you chose to deny and disparage anything negative about Thomas. If you would had stopped defending him, and actually given some real thought to what had happened since his return from New York, you might see Brooke's concerns were not groundless. Thomas wasn't even part of the fucking baby napping plan; ever the opportunist, he saw his opening, and inserted himself into a horrible situation, and exacerbated it by a thousand. Because of him, we now have drugging involved, and threats of physical violence, and even murder. And those are just the illegal things he has done. What about the emotional heartbreak he has caused Hope and Douglas. If you want to ignore the rest I guess you can claim ignorance, but you can't claim that with Douglas. Thomas disappeared, leaving no contact information. He abandoned his young, confused, and grieving son. Douglas had expressed sadness, and fear, and confusion about his father to Ridge, but apparently that didn't penetrate Ridge's safety shield. Poor little Douglas is the complete and total loser in this whole mess. 

Other than Brooke. I can see that Hope is wavering in her support of her mother. If Brooke loses Ridge, she will get over it. There is always Bill, which would make me so very happy. Sorry to the Batie supporters; that pairing just does not work for me. I loved Bill and Brooke. But if Brooke loses Hope? Over this? Knowing how panicked she was driving to Cliff House, and then walking in on that scene? Does Hope have no mothering instincts? Is it too early? Brooke saw the man who lied to, and manipulated, and prolonged her daughter's pain in a physical altercation with her daughter, and what, she was supposed to pull a chair and have a snack? I think Brooke was simply done with it, and her frustration and fear overcame her as Thomas grabbed her. 

But Ridge wants to blame her. Maybe he should think back and remember how he felt after Rick went over that ledge. The panic, and fear, and concern, then having to face Brooke. And Brooke doesn't even hate Thomas, she does care about him, but that isn't going to supersede her love for Hope. But this brute won't be able to forgive her. It should only have been about Thomas. He was only there to apologize and make it right with Hope. I mean, the fact that he snuck the fuck into the house, and scared the shit out of Hope doesn't matter. Nor does it matter that he was aggressive, and grabbed Hope, and prevented her from leaving Cliff House. And he only chased her outside because he was desperate to explain. What you walked in on was Thomas explaining. Don't you see now, how you overreacted? 

Pure and simple Tom Mother Fucking Fuckery. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by RuntheTable

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, RuntheTable said:

Well that show required a cold shower...….

As if watching three well dressed, comely men, sitting around discussing stuff wasn't enough, we then cut over to the LA hospital and get a look see at Vincent Irizarry! Goodness Show, even though you are sucking face right now, I must give you props for offering up such tasty treats. Justin, as always, put together, then we had Wyatt, who was rocking that black shirt and grey suit. And then we had Bill, who is looking so, so, good. It was nice of Show to frost that three layered testosterone laden cake with some nice Dr. Armstrong yummyness. Umm, Umm, good. My first exposure to VI was on Guiding Light as Nick Spaulding. I don't remember much about the character, but I do remember thinking VI was the Al Pacino of daytime. Not necessarily from an acting standpoint, but looks. Making matters worse, was right after Show, I watched a movie with Jason Momoa as Aquaman……...Yep. 

Ah, so refreshing. Unfortunately, it only lasted a few seconds before being doused by a bucket of manure known as Ridge Forrester. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Ridge, my man.....listen up pal, I want to lay this out very fucking carefully for you, so you will understand it. Now, I want you to put down the club, and please, release that lock you have on Brooke's hair. 

Your son is a creep. He is a rapist. He is a master manipulator. He is a murderer. You may have been unaware of some of these traits, but you certainly knew about a few. You also knew that your son has a long history of bad manners and bad behavior. You know he is Taylor's son too. Thomas has now been implicated in all manner of crimes, and most of those crimes were against Hope. Oh, you know who she is right? Brooke's daughter? Your wife's daughter? That girl you helped raise? The other injured party is your grandson Douglas. I cannot believe you don't remember him after you tried to say he was your son by Caroline. And if I am not mistaken didn't one of your son's aforementioned traits lead to the advent of Douglas? 

I am not saying that crimes against those you claim to love, and um...….remember, or maybe acknowledge, means Thomas should have been pushed over a cliff. But maybe, just maybe, if you had heeded the warnings of your wife and Dr. Sanchez, and made some kind of effort to find Thomas? I am wondering though, if you really did want to find him. Out of sight out of crime? No seaey, no guilty? Or maybe it was more about your embarrassment at something like this about your son leaking out? 

Whatever your reasons, that fact remains that you didn't act. Odds are you would not have found Thomas, but at least you would have put in some effort; done your due diligence as a father, a husband, a grandfather, and a stepdad. Instead you chose to deny and disparage anything negative about Thomas. If you would had stopped defending him, and actually given some real thought to what had happened since his return from New York, you might see Brooke's concerns were not groundless. Thomas wasn't even part of the fucking baby napping plan; ever the opportunist, he saw his opening, and inserted himself into a horrible situation, and exacerbated it by a thousand. Because of him, we now have drugging involved, and threats of physical violence, and even murder. And those are just the illegal things he has done. What about the emotional heartbreak he has caused Hope and Douglas. If you want to ignore the rest I guess you can claim ignorance, but you can't claim that with Douglas. Thomas disappeared, leaving no contact information. He abandoned his young, confused, and grieving son. Douglas had expressed sadness, and fear, and confusion about his father to Ridge, but apparently that didn't penetrate Ridge's safety shield. Poor little Douglas is the complete and total loser in this whole mess. 

Other than Brooke. I can see that Hope is wavering in her support of her mother. If Brooke loses Ridge, she will get over it. There is always Bill, which would make me so very happy. Sorry to the Batie supporters; that pairing just does not work for me. I loved Bill and Brooke. But if Brooke loses Hope? Over this? Knowing how panicked she was driving to Cliff House, and then walking in on that scene? Does Hope have no mothering instincts? Is it too early? Brooke saw the man who lied to, and manipulated, and prolonged her daughter's pain in a physical altercation with her daughter, and what, she was supposed to pull a chair and have a snack? I think Brooke was simply done with it, and her frustration and fear overcame her as Thomas grabbed her. 

But Ridge wants to blame her. Maybe he should think back and remember how he felt after Rick went over that ledge. The panic, and fear, and concern, then having to face Brooke. And Brooke doesn't even hate Thomas, she does care about him, but that isn't going to supersede her love for Hope. But this brute won't be able to forgive her. It should only have been about Thomas. He was only there to apologize and make it right with Hope. I mean, the fact that he snuck the fuck into the house, and scared the shit out of Hope doesn't matter. Nor does it matter that he was aggressive, and grabbed Hope, and prevented her from leaving Cliff House. And he only chased her outside because he was desperate to explain. What you walked in on was Thomas explaining. Don't you see now, how you overreacted? 

Pure and simple Tom Mother Fucking Fuckery. 

@RuntheTable, I wish I could do more than 'heart' this comment because you said EVERYTHING I've been feeling.  This new story line is going to be even worse than the Phoebeth one and I didn't think that was humanly possible.

Thomas is a monster who specializes in preying on women.  There was a moment when I really liked him but I think that was all down to PF.  This new actor with his beady eyes and over-muscled body that is way over displayed isn't capable of showing any redeeming qualities in Thomas.

Apparently, the 10 seconds that Thomas spent apologizing to his son are considered a 'breakthrough' when the REAL Thomas was revealed.  I find that beyond laughable because the second Thomas found out where Hope was, he couldn't dump Douglas fast enough.

God, TK is the wrong person to play Ridge Forrester.  He hasn't got a drop of Ronnnnnnn Moss' charm or humanity.  Just looking at the Rick/Ridge clip makes me miss Ronnnnnnnn so much.  TK's Ridge is a bully and a brute. 

@RuntheTable, I agree with you completely.  If Ridge want to blame somebody for Thomas' Tumble, he might start with looking in the mirror.  His son was being accused of MURDER and all he was doing was leaving VOICE MESSAGES.  Ridge is telling everyone in the hospital that he's Thomas' father but from where I'm sitting, he's Thomas' sperm donor.

Now Brooke has given Ridge the PERFECT out.  He's going to pour all this guilt, shame and hostility on her.  And she's going to take it because that's what women do on The Bold and the Beautiful.  They let the men in their lives abuse them, manhandle them, kidnap them, RAPE them and they just keep coming back for more.  Because HE REALLY LOVES ME, I KNOW IT.

I want Bill to rush over to Brooke and give her the support her husband has NEVER given her.  I used to hate Bill because of the way he treated Brooke.  He was so ugly towards her.  But that Bill is gone and I was happy to see him go.  Brooke is going to need someone in her corner, preferably a man, who will be able to fight back against the brute she's married to.  Hope isn't going to be any help.  She's too busy shaking and rewriting all the manipulation and abuse she's suffered at Thomas' hands.  Maybe if she's seen Douglas cowering as his father loomed over him, she'd remember what Thomas REALLY is. 

I'm counting on Liam being able to talk some sense into Hope (although he's never really been able to before) because I don't want to write Hope off.  I stuck by her through thick and thin, when the rest of the world was mocking her.  Hope has her daughter back.  She doesn't have the LUXURY of going all weak and weepy. 

1 hour ago, RuntheTable said:

Well that show required a cold shower...….

As if watching three well dressed, comely men, sitting around discussing stuff wasn't enough, we then cut over to the LA hospital and get a look see at Vincent Irizarry! Goodness Show, even though you are sucking face right now, I must give you props for offering up such tasty treats. Justin, as always, put together, then we had Wyatt, who was rocking that black shirt and grey suit. And then we had Bill, who is looking so, so, good. It was nice of Show to frost that three layered testosterone laden cake with some nice Dr. Armstrong yummyness. Umm, Umm, good. My first exposure to VI was on Guiding Light as Nick Spaulding. I don't remember much about the character, but I do remember thinking VI was the Al Pacino of daytime. Not necessarily from an acting standpoint, but looks. Making matters worse, was right after Show, I watched a movie with Jason Momoa as Aquaman……...Yep. 

Ah, so refreshing. Unfortunately, it only lasted a few seconds before being doused by a bucket of manure known as Ridge Forrester. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Ridge, my man.....listen up pal, I want to lay this out very fucking carefully for you, so you will understand it. Now, I want you to put down the club, and please, release that lock you have on Brooke's hair. 

Your son is a creep. He is a rapist. He is a master manipulator. He is a murderer. You may have been unaware of some of these traits, but you certainly knew about a few. You also knew that your son has a long history of bad manners and bad behavior. You know he is Taylor's son too. Thomas has now been implicated in all manner of crimes, and most of those crimes were against Hope. Oh, you know who she is right? Brooke's daughter? Your wife's daughter? That girl you helped raise? The other injured party is your grandson Douglas. I cannot believe you don't remember him after you tried to say he was your son by Caroline. And if I am not mistaken didn't one of your son's aforementioned traits lead to the advent of Douglas? 

I am not saying that crimes against those you claim to love, and um...….remember, or maybe acknowledge, means Thomas should have been pushed over a cliff. But maybe, just maybe, if you had heeded the warnings of your wife and Dr. Sanchez, and made some kind of effort to find Thomas? I am wondering though, if you really did want to find him. Out of sight out of crime? No seaey, no guilty? Or maybe it was more about your embarrassment at something like this about your son leaking out? 

Whatever your reasons, that fact remains that you didn't act. Odds are you would not have found Thomas, but at least you would have put in some effort; done your due diligence as a father, a husband, a grandfather, and a stepdad. Instead you chose to deny and disparage anything negative about Thomas. If you would had stopped defending him, and actually given some real thought to what had happened since his return from New York, you might see Brooke's concerns were not groundless. Thomas wasn't even part of the fucking baby napping plan; ever the opportunist, he saw his opening, and inserted himself into a horrible situation, and exacerbated it by a thousand. Because of him, we now have drugging involved, and threats of physical violence, and even murder. And those are just the illegal things he has done. What about the emotional heartbreak he has caused Hope and Douglas. If you want to ignore the rest I guess you can claim ignorance, but you can't claim that with Douglas. Thomas disappeared, leaving no contact information. He abandoned his young, confused, and grieving son. Douglas had expressed sadness, and fear, and confusion about his father to Ridge, but apparently that didn't penetrate Ridge's safety shield. Poor little Douglas is the complete and total loser in this whole mess. 

Other than Brooke. I can see that Hope is wavering in her support of her mother. If Brooke loses Ridge, she will get over it. There is always Bill, which would make me so very happy. Sorry to the Batie supporters; that pairing just does not work for me. I loved Bill and Brooke. But if Brooke loses Hope? Over this? Knowing how panicked she was driving to Cliff House, and then walking in on that scene? Does Hope have no mothering instincts? Is it too early? Brooke saw the man who lied to, and manipulated, and prolonged her daughter's pain in a physical altercation with her daughter, and what, she was supposed to pull a chair and have a snack? I think Brooke was simply done with it, and her frustration and fear overcame her as Thomas grabbed her. 

But Ridge wants to blame her. Maybe he should think back and remember how he felt after Rick went over that ledge. The panic, and fear, and concern, then having to face Brooke. And Brooke doesn't even hate Thomas, she does care about him, but that isn't going to supersede her love for Hope. But this brute won't be able to forgive her. It should only have been about Thomas. He was only there to apologize and make it right with Hope. I mean, the fact that he snuck the fuck into the house, and scared the shit out of Hope doesn't matter. Nor does it matter that he was aggressive, and grabbed Hope, and prevented her from leaving Cliff House. And he only chased her outside because he was desperate to explain. What you walked in on was Thomas explaining. Don't you see now, how you overreacted? 

Pure and simple Tom Mother Fucking Fuckery. 

@RuntheTable, I wish I could do more than 'heart' this comment because you said EVERYTHING I've been feeling.  This new story line is going to be even worse than the Phoebeth one and I didn't think that was humanly possible.

Thomas is a monster who specializes in preying on women.  There was a moment when I really liked him but I think that was all down to PF.  This new actor with his beady eyes and over-muscled body that is way over displayed isn't capable of showing any redeeming qualities in Thomas.

Apparently, the 10 seconds that Thomas spent apologizing to his son are considered a 'breakthrough' when the REAL Thomas was revealed.  I find that beyond laughable because the second Thomas found out where Hope was, he couldn't dump Douglas fast enough.

God, TK is the wrong person to play Ridge Forrester.  He hasn't got a drop of Ronnnnnnn Moss' charm or humanity.  Just looking at the Rick/Ridge clip makes me miss Ronnnnnnnn so much.  TK's Ridge is a bully and a brute. 

@RuntheTable, I agree with you completely.  If Ridge want to blame somebody for Thomas' Tumble, he might start with looking in the mirror.  His son was being accused of MURDER and all he was doing was leaving VOICE MESSAGES.  Ridge is telling everyone in the hospital that he's Thomas' father but from where I'm sitting, he's Thomas' sperm donor.

Now Brooke has given Ridge the PERFECT out.  He's going to pour all this guilt, shame and hostility on her.  And she's going to take it because that's what women do on The Bold and the Beautiful.  They let the men in their lives abuse them, manhandle them, kidnap them, RAPE them and they just keep coming back for more.  Because HE REALLY LOVES ME, I KNOW IT.

I want Bill to rush over to Brooke and give her the support her husband has NEVER given her.  I used to hate Bill because of the way he treated Brooke.  He was so ugly towards her.  But that Bill is gone and I was happy to see him go.  Brooke is going to need someone in her corner, preferably a man, who will be able to fight back against the brute she's married to.  Hope isn't going to be any help.  She's too busy shaking and rewriting all the manipulation and abuse she's suffered at Thomas' hands.  Maybe if she's seen Douglas cowering as his father loomed over him, she'd remember what Thomas REALLY is. 

I'm counting on Liam being able to talk some sense into Hope (although he's never really been able to before) because I don't want to write Hope off.  I stuck by her through thick and thin, when the rest of the world was mocking her.  Hope has her daughter back.  She doesn't have the LUXURY of going all weak and weepy. 

[Anna Yolei]

12 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I'm counting on Liam being able to talk some sense into Hope (although he's never really been able to before) because I don't want to write Hope off.  I stuck by her through thick and thin, when the rest of the world was mocking her.  Hope has her daughter back.  She doesn't have the LUXURY of going all weak and weepy. 

QFT.

I didn't like this new pacifist type Hope Logan even before she got pregnant and I don't like it now. Maybe I could live with it if TIIC were to acknowledge the gaslighting and manipulation she's been through and that such traumas don't go away overnight. But that involves layered writing, something B&B has never been particularly skilled at showing even at its best...and it's best didn't last very long.

12 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Just looking at the Rick/Ridge clip makes me miss Ronnnnnnnn so much. 

That's a sentence I never thought I'd never read regarding that cheesefest.

 😂

But honestly...yeah.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Anna Yolei

[mightysparrow]

1 minute ago, Anna Yolei said:

QFT.

I didn't like this new pacifist type Hope Logan even before she got pregnant and I don't like it now. Maybe I could live with it if TIIC were to acknowledge the gaslighting and manipulation she's been through and that such traumas don't go away overnight. But that involves layered writing, something B&B has never been particularly skilled at showing even at its best...and it's best didn't last very long.

Agreed.

It wouldn't even have to be any kind of medical treatment.  If Hope and Liam could only have one conversation where she explained WHY she tossed her marriage aside to be with a man EVERYONE who cared about her knew was bad news.  If she could just describe how lost and BROKEN she was and how desperate she was for any kind of lifeline that would drag her out of the dark hole that she was existing (not living, EXISTING) in.  How being with Douglas was the only thing that kept her from wanting to scream until her throat bled.  That's the reason she was so vulnerable to a predator like Thomas.  I think Bell owes the viewers something like this.  Yeah, who am I kidding!  We're going to get the Redemption of St. Thomas instead. 

I don't like being spit in the face.

[TigerLynx]

In a truly lousy SL, one of the biggest screw ups was the writers not bothering to give Hope a real voice for why she was doing what she was doing.  No, I don't consider them having other characters now try to voice why Hope did what she did as explaining Hope's motivations.  It would have been very easy for Hope to express to Brooke, a therapist, someone, that her past with Liam made her insecure about whether or not their relationship could survive the loss of their baby.  Not that difficult.  Especially since the writers had no problem having the trio of dumb (Flo, Zoe, Xander) have the same boring idiotic conversation for weeks.  They couldn't take two seconds of that time to let Hope and Liam express their thoughts and feelings?

Bill and Wyatt, I really wish you hadn't perpetrated the Steffy is still screwing Bill lie in order to prevent Liam from going back to Steffy.  You would be in a better position to criticize someone else's lies.  That being said.  I AGREE with everything Bill said about Ridge.  However, Ridge is the guy Brooke chased for years willing to do whatever it took to get him so not a lot of sympathy for Brooke.

So Steffy is still MIA?  There was no reason for Steffy to be involved in this SL at all.  I wonder when Steffy and Kelly will eventually make an appearance?  Ridge's whole I'll let Steffy and Taylor know what is going on when I know something concrete - Seriously?  {face palm}

[Gam2]

Wow, Hope. You couldn’t back your mom up just this one time? Of course, you were frightened and threatened by Tom. That’s why you ran out of the house in the first place! You nearly jumped out of your skin when he walked in the door! You screamed at him to keep his hands off of you! Then you tell your mom that she “misinterpreted” what she saw? What?! Here we go again, folks. Utter nonsense.

[nkotb]

I'm 50/50 on Hope. 50% says she should've covered for Brooke, even if Thomas wasn't scaring her in that moment, he had plenty of times before, & Brooke had no way of knowing that he wasn't threatening her, again, in that exact moment. His history lends itself to assume the worst. I'm also 50% saying that if this is what breaks up Bridge, eh, it's fine to tell the truth, or your version of it, even if you have to go against your mom. It's for the greater good. 

I for sure think we saw the seeds planted for Hope staying with Thomas today, especially when he wakes up faking amnesia, & falls for her again. 

It would've been much better story if Thomas had "accidentally" knocked Brooke off of the cliff. 

[TigerLynx]

49 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

Wow, Hope. You couldn’t back your mom up just this one time? Of course, you were frightened and threatened by Tom. That’s why you ran out of the house in the first place! You nearly jumped out of your skin when he walked in the door! You screamed at him to keep his hands off of you! Then you tell your mom that she “misinterpreted” what she saw? What?! Here we go again, folks. Utter nonsense.

Just when I couldn't despise Brad Bell more, he writes this idiocy.  I detest Brooke.  There are a million reasons for people to hate Brooke.  This isn't one of them.  This was an accident.  Now Hope is once again stepping on my last nerve.  This woman is so spineless and weak.  I guess I'm supposed to feel sorry for Hope, but I am so tired of the poor Hope has to be saved crap.  If you are going to be a damsel in distress, at least have the backs of the people who constantly rescue you.

I think I might have defended Brooke there, and that just pisses me off.  It's almost as bad as when I agree with Ridge.  Yeah, I really hate Brad Bell and the writers.  Would it kill them to give me something worthwhile to watch - like Sally, not being with Wyatt, and getting a new guy that isn't a selfish bastard.

[Ohwell]

Liam gave Hope a look that had misery written all over it.  I think he's frustrated with her and I'm hoping that he doesn't get back with her.  I fully expect her to be sitting by Thomas's hospital bed and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she decided to get back with him.

[Anna Yolei]

Well, I'm out.

I thought maybe we get something resembling the B&B I watched for 20 years and God forbid a return to some actual fashion. Hell, a return to Liam the Waffle would be an improvement at this point, and if it's come to saying that, it's time for me to move on for good.

I can't quit you ladies but I think I'll just be sitting on the sidelines and updating the retro thread more, because I just can't with any of this crap.

[TigerLynx]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Liam gave Hope a look that had misery written all over it.  I think he's frustrated with her and I'm hoping that he doesn't get back with her.  I fully expect her to be sitting by Thomas's hospital bed and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she decided to get back with him.

I won't be shedding any tears for Liam either.

[Angeleyes]

Ugh, Hope. Thomas kept your child from you and manipulated you into marriage with him. You are aware that he may be responsible for Emma’s death and the last time you were near him he tried to kidnap you and throw you into a helicopter. When Thomas came to “apologize “ he was yelling at you and grabbing you and wouldn’t take no for an answer and that made you run out of the house while he gave chase. He wasn’t there to have a rational conversation about apologizing so stop saying Brooke misread the situation. 

[bannana]

This is some serious kind of bullshit that has Hope saying that she wasn't afraid and that Thomas was just trying to apologize.  So I guess she forgot that he was kidnapping her that time when Liam intervened!  And that he conned her into marriage using his adorable son.  And that she was so frightened of him she ran out the back door of Steffy's house to get away from him, and she told him to take his hands off of her?  No, she suddenly remembers that he was just begging her forgiveness! 🤦‍♀️

The only reason they would write it this way is to compel Hope to stay with Thomas after he wakes up.  Lordy.

 

Hey, I noticed from the wide shot of the cliff house today that there is in fact a fence all the way across the cliff, including behind the hedge.  So that is quite the impressive vault that Thomas did to clear the hedge and the fence!

 

[Ohwell]

29 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

I won't be shedding any tears for Liam either.

Not shedding tears but I still think he's better off without her.

In fact, I think he'd be better off as a father to Beth than she would be as a mother.  Until she gets some mental health help, she's unhinged.