B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[jenrising]

Hahahahaha. Tattoo removal is the new annulment. And show? Bill basically holding hands with Steffy and the Liam doing the same? Stop that.

[Waldo13]

Since when does Eric have the power to dethrone Ridge and anoint Rick as CEO?  I might have senior moments but when I do, I can check the video tapes. The only way Rick gets back in if Liam votes with him by using Steffy  as leverage.  Fuck Liam and his stupid flashbacks. He had the same stupid flashbacks with Hope while he was with Steffy. 

 

While we're at it Fuck Katie and the horse she road in on. I thought for sure that we we're going to have a montage, of Supergirl, fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.  Fuck Thomas. Ridge should just tell him that if he pursues Doglas, he will be charged with rape. Caroline would be humiliated eitherway.  Bill, the voice of reason, what a concept.

 

i just wish that Katie and Brooke books a three hour tour, on the SS Minnow,  and take Liam and Rick as floatation devises.  

[Bill C.]

I could almost get the show trying to stack the deck for (against?) Thomas today if it had done a better job of showing rather than telling us that he's "changed."  Backing off from his creepy fixation on Douglas, just a touch, wouldn't have hurt either.  That said, Ridge's justification for keeping the paternity secret being that Gandalf would fire everybody involved (and then, let's not forget, put Rick in charge) and that'd be the end of his family as he knew it?  Right now it's veering a little close to Julius Avant territory, and screw that.

OTOH...Katie insisting that this had to come out for everyone's own good, in a bubble, makes perfect sense.  The problem is still that she literally bulldozed her way through all of this, and she is/was the catalyst for all of this (next to Dr. Whatsit), so for her to say that with a straight face brings us right back to "Bitch, what?"

As for the Liam/Steffy/Wyatt merry-go-round...apart from JMW finally picking a hair color and, hopefully, sticking with it?  As much as I want Liam to even kindasorta accept this, if just so Wyatt can finally shut up about his thirst--er, marriage--the show just randomly has Steffy show up at his house like there's a tractor beam pulling her to it and Pepperidge Farm fucking remembers because it wasn't even a week since the last time we got beat over the head with this...

[politichick]

44 minutes ago, Waldo13 said:

While we're at it Fuck Katie and the horse she road in on. I thought for sure that we we're going to have a montage, of Supergirl, fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.  Fuck Thomas. Ridge should just tell him that if he pursues Douglas, he will be charged with rape. Caroline would be humiliated eitherway.  Bill, the voice of reason, what a concept.

Katie makes me so sick I had to fast forward through her on Thursday episode, which I only watched Saturday, and haven't had the stomach for Friday's. Someone needs to smack her fucking hypocritical ass. And Thomas needs to remember that so wasn't consensual sex so does he really want that out? Of course, Katie is going to run her fucking mouth all over town. She makes me sick. Someone needs to stick a bottle of vodka up her ass. I hate her and now hope that Brooke makes a beeline for Bill.

[thewhiteowl]

I think having the audience hate Katie is entirely the point here. It's really the only thing that makes Brooke leaching on her husband rootable in any way. IMO They want the audience to be overjoyed at Katie's pain when she inevitably loses Bill and everything. No doubt she's wrong here but it really makes no sense for her to be involved, otherwise. 

[Bill C.]

You're probably right, thewhiteowl.  Most of the time while Katie's been onscreen this past week or two I've been thinking of her being on the back side of this general sitch via her boozing and such, which amplifies the unspoken hypocrisy (Brooke doesn't have the right to get into her and run to Bill about her grief/boozing over her, but she can play snowplow for other people?).  It's surprisingly manipulative if this is indeed the case, though it does go back to Katie being the architect of her own failure.

[Gudzilla]

5 hours ago, AussieBabe said:

I'd much rather see the Avants than these idiots.

The older Avants presumably.

[Anna Yolei]

3 hours ago, Bill C. said:

You're probably right, thewhiteowl.  Most of the time while Katie's been onscreen this past week or two I've been thinking of her being on the back side of this general sitch via her boozing and such, which amplifies the unspoken hypocrisy (Brooke doesn't have the right to get into her and run to Bill about her grief/boozing over her, but she can play snowplow for other people?).  It's surprisingly manipulative if this is indeed the case, though it does go back to Katie being the architect of her own failure.

Coincidentally, I found about  five months' worth of episodes from when Heather Tom was first cast as Katie about 9 years (!) ago, and having watch most of this for the first time since they aired, it hit me how shrill Katie has always been. It says a lot about horribly written the other characters were at the time that she was once seen as one of the more moral characters on the show. And these were episodes BEFORE her heart transplant and the events that led to her boinking Nick. Ugh.

But even for all her being the cheap knockoff of St. Taylor, I will never side with Brooke and Bill's bullshit. Fuck them and fuck the writing staff for pulling the same manipulative "ruin one character to prop our couple" crap that they did countless time with most of Ridge's romantic rivals (hi, Nick!).

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, Bill C. said:

Katie insisting that this had to come out for everyone's own good, in a bubble, makes perfect sense.  The problem is still that she literally bulldozed her way through all of this, and she is/was the catalyst for all of this (next to Dr. Whatsit), so for her to say that with a straight face brings us right back to "Bitch, what?"

THIS!

[Waldo13]

There are so many parallels between B&B and Y&R, you would think that they exchange scripts or, at least, use the same writer's office. 

 

Steffy and Victoria have battered wife syndrome. Steffy loves Liam but forgets all the emotional shit he put her through with Hope and Ivy. Victoria can't get over Billy but she also forgets Billy begs for her forgiveness at least twice a month for the emotional stress he puts her through.  I'm not saying that Steffy and Victoria are the ultimate catch but Liam and Billy are both emotionally unavailable.  

[Bill C.]

Dare I say that Victoria's battered wife syndrome actually started with her father, so in this specific and colossally messed up aspect Steffy actually "wins."  God knows what, but she does.

[TobinAlbers]

Still find it surprising that Bill is pushing hard for the Wyffy when he's always been in Liam's corner. I can't help but think he's pitying Wyatt by telling Steffy to stay with Wyatt because even after being physical and mentally violated, he feels Liam can recover from that while Wyatt couldn't recover from losing a third time to Liam (Hope, Ivy, Steffy). 

Bill also may be thinking that Wyffy will implode all on their own without Liam actively campaigning and ruffling Wyatt's feathers in the process. What I'm afraid will happen is that with Liam being so messed up in the head and torn over his feelings for Quinn and everyone telling him to let Steffy go that one night he will lose control, Quinn will be in the right place at the right time and Liam will give into his feelings (combined with his anger and self loathing and wanting to hurt Wyatt and Steffy) and sleep with Quinn only for Steffy to realize she loves Liam more and go back to him and THAT'S when Quinn will end up pregnant and she'll be able to say this child was conceived with a consenting Liam and he won't be able to deny it. Steffy will flip back to Wyatt and any sympathy Liam had in the situation with Wyatt and Steffy will be gone (when really, Liam is PTSD and should be in therapy) and he'll be dealing with a pregnant Quinn and angry Steffy and smug angry Wyatt. 

Katie needs to take several seats. This was none of her business. Had the possible baby daddy been Rick, then I can get her meddling but butting in because....she's nosy? That's Pam's arena. And da hell was she trying to imply that Caroline had feelings for Thomas and that the bond of Douglas would bring them closer? I get Caroline's defended Thomas' predatory behavior but it's obviously serving the story when Katie isn't side eyeing Caroline when she admitted that she was drunk and doped up on drugs when Douglas was conceived. That's some shady crap and does not reflect kindly on Thomas. Instead of remarking how it'll bond her to the guy forever, Kayie, how about comforting your obviously traumatized, emotional niece-in-law?

The crap Ridge was spouting was outrageous and yet I still couldn't be that upset on Thomas' behalf. As fine as the actor is, I don't root for Thomas to get the girl and family since he hasn't shown a side of himself that's vulnerable and rootable for him to get some happiness. He's just kind of been...there. I still say that if we had found out that while in Paris, Thomas he had fallen in love with a guy, Ridge had put the kibosh on it some how (for not the homophobic reasons as Thomas believed; Ridge found out the guy was using Thomas and paid the guy off) and this is why Thomas came home with a chip on his shoulder to piss off dad and appear to be a raging hetero  manwhore and why Ridge is so wary of him. 

Caught up on the Avant drama from last week and it really was glorious. One thing I love about OB is how he uses his whole body when he's acting; the man is short and yet when he's talking up to the taller Sasha he's all straight back, long neck, imperious and regal so that he appear to be talking down to her, and yet when he's begging  and contrite to Nicole and Vivienne his neck suddenly disappears and shoulders are hunched and he's small and pitiful. It's such a simple thing and yet OB knows how to work it.

[Anna Yolei]

Indeed...Jacob Young should take notes from OB for the next time he's gotta have conflict with Ridge.

Also, if the Avant are the new Payne-Marones, can they get their own place ASAP? How about Jackie's old pad (minus the tacky tub of course)?

[slayer2]

Guys, the weirdest thing is happening! I'm catching up on last week's B&B and I'm having a blast!! I mean it could be the wine but this is soap opera gold and the Avant women, *sniff* it's just dust I swear. Also, I'm not one to invoke Hunter Tylo but shouldn't Taylor be here right now. Thomas kinda needs her as Ridge is clearly out of control.

Edited May 10, 2016 by slayer2

[Bill C.]

It's not the wine, slayer2.  Perhaps it's magnified a bit by what we got beforehand, but last week was some seriously good soap.  (Come on back when you get to Thursday's episode.  Trust us.)

[slayer2]

Just now, Bill C. said:

It's not the wine, slayer2.  Perhaps it's magnified a bit by what we got beforehand, but last week was some seriously good soap.  (Come on back when you get to Thursday's episode.  Trust us.)

Oh I got there....it was great. That man is despicable, the dragging was epic.

[LittleIggy]

STFU Katie. I kept waiting for Caroline to say "Why are you still here? You've caused enough havoc already so get the hell out of the building, bitch."

[AussieBabe]

9 hours ago, Gudzilla said:

The older Avants presumably.

Absolutely. I can't take Tiny Tim aka Rick and his, "I deserve to live in daddy's mansion and be CEO." I'm way past over Maya/Nicole and this "gift." Bell is so caught up on being PC that any realism is gone. Mya and Rick are the only unit that have continued to be in the honeymoon stage and not experienced anything negative since getting married. I just find it hard to believe that she's just going to hand the baby over and not feel anything. Even if she isn't maternal or stayed true to script, she will always have an unbreakable bond. I'm curious to see how that will work out in the future and if she'll have regrets after the possible Sasha/Zende spoiler. Maybe it will implode in the future. I just would have preferred to at least see some internal struggles or for Maya to experience some pangs of envy over Viv/Nicole or Nicole/Rick bonding over something she'll never experience. This has just been way too perfect, and if it always went like that in life, intended parents and surrogates wouldn't end up in court or have laws to protect either side. And in some cases, surrogates have won custody.

[KerleyQ]

Quote

Bill also may be thinking that Wyffy will implode all on their own without Liam actively campaigning and ruffling Wyatt's feathers in the process. What I'm afraid will happen is that with Liam being so messed up in the head and torn over his feelings for Quinn and everyone telling him to let Steffy go that one night he will lose control, Quinn will be in the right place at the right time and Liam will give into his feelings (combined with his anger and self loathing and wanting to hurt Wyatt and Steffy) and sleep with Quinn only for Steffy to realize she loves Liam more and go back to him and THAT'S when Quinn will end up pregnant and she'll be able to say this child was conceived with a consenting Liam and he won't be able to deny it. Steffy will flip back to Wyatt and any sympathy Liam had in the situation with Wyatt and Steffy will be gone (when really, Liam is PTSD and should be in therapy) and he'll be dealing with a pregnant Quinn and angry Steffy and smug angry Wyatt. 

I'm almost positive that we're going to get something along these lines.  I'll be shocked if we don't.  

Bill cheer leading for Wyatt/Steffy was odd.  But, I guess, it's nice to see him take up for his "other" son for once.  

Steffy's hair looks so much better now.  Let's hope JMW sticks with it for more than a day.   

[grisgris]

I know I'm completely alone here, but I'm on Team Thomas all the way. I detest this version Ridge, and to hopefully see Thomas take off with the baby makes me want to rub my hands with glee. The only thing to have made it better yesterday was if Thomas threw in another punch to Ridge's ugly smug face while he was threatening Thomas with losing his position at FC. You go boy!

Hatie, OTOH, can take several seats. I do agree with her that Sludge and his Child Bride shouldn't have lied to Thomas about the baby, but side with Caroline that Thomas should have been told on Ridge's and her's terms.

Bill is so smarmy. I'll bet he was getting a boner getting to be so up close and personal with Steffy with an excuse to touch her, even if just to hold her hand. I would like to see Bill dump Hatie over the drinking and this latest mess with Thomas/Douglas then go after Steffy. That should shut his two whiny sons up permanently if DAD ends up with the girl. I don't understand why men fight over Steffy. (I guess by the same token, women fighting over Lame.)

[thewhiteowl]

I am alone as well, I don't see Thomas as a rapist because Caroline doesn't. Skeevy, yes. If both say it wasn't rape then I go with that. I can't get behind a possible babynapping, though. 

Yes, I'd love to see Bill go after Steffy just to crack Brooke's face. Working to bust up his marriage to have him go for a young glittery cooch? Priceless!

[Kerri Okie]

30 minutes ago, grisgris said:

I know I'm completely alone here, but I'm on Team Thomas all the way. I detest this version Ridge, and to hopefully see Thomas take off with the baby makes me want to rub my hands with glee. The only thing to have made it better yesterday was if Thomas threw in another punch to Ridge's ugly smug face while he was threatening Thomas with losing his position at FC. You go boy!

Hatie, OTOH, can take several seats. I do agree with her that Sludge and his Child Bride shouldn't have lied to Thomas about the baby, but side with Caroline that Thomas should have been told on Ridge's and her's terms.

You're not alone.  I loathe Katie.  What she did has nothing to do with what's best for Douglas and totally smacks of "you stole Ridge from me, so, yeah...karma, bitch."  

On the other hand, I also loathe Ridge and Caroline, so I'm strangely horrified and gleeful at the same time by Katie outing them.  Thomas is turning out to be the least despicable of the bunch, so I'm in his corner by default.  

Quote

I am alone as well, I don't see Thomas as a rapist because Caroline doesn't.

Also this.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Kerri Okie

[AussieBabe]

I don't see Thomas as a rapist because they both were under the influence of something. The lines are blurred. Alcohol impairs your judgement, so I don't believe he did anything with malice in his heart. If I remember right, he was slurring words or something. Now, if he had drugged her, knew about the pills/went on to ply her with liquor, or had not been drinking himself, yeah, I'd call it that. If that's the case, then I've violated Mr. AussieBabe because we've both had a few too many and woke up like, "What happened?"

I wish they would show more than that weak kiss. Was she out cold? Was she partaking in..the physical? I just don't know. She says he didn't take advantage of her and has consistently said that. It's not like with Quinn who was knowingly violating Liam while completely sober and did it over the course of a few months.

I hate Nu-Ridge. Where's Taylor? And I was tired of Caroline looking panicked. I'm not buying Thomas' Redemption Song, so they they can put it back on the shelf and try again later. At the same token, Ridge is an a-hole and needs to be brought down a peg or 30. If Eric didn't fire you when you were cheating with Caroline, why would he fire you now? Oh okay. 

[Cindylou]

Hey Ridge it's called Karma!  you have no right to be pissed at Thomas for what you yourself did to YOUR DAD!

the show has been so good lately, what are we watching!?!?

[Cool Breeze]

Yesterday, for the first time, I feel I saw a different motivation from Katie other than being the morality police.  By gently implying Caroline would be drawn to the father of her baby, she wants Ridge free to occupy Brooke so Brooke won't go after Bill.  

And as I type this, for the many of us who think Douglas is actually Ridge's son, it will be Katie who switches the test results to make Thomas the father, further cementing the Caroline-Thomas "bond".  Then months (years?) later, the deception will be revealed, Ridge will prove to be the father after all, and Caroline and Ridge reunite.  

Ridge/Brooke/Eric (with baby Bridget) all over again.

[photo fox]

9 minutes ago, Cool Breeze said:

And as I type this, for the many of us who think Douglas is actually Ridge's son, it will be Katie who switches the test results to make Thomas the father, further cementing the Caroline-Thomas "bond".  Then months (years?) later, the deception will be revealed, Ridge will prove to be the father after all, and Caroline and Ridge reunite.

My speculation is that Ridge, assuming that Thomas is the father, will somehow switch the samples.  But then, because Ridge actually was the father, the results will come back that Thomas is the baby daddy.  Therefore leaving Ridge with the sinking revelation that he was Douglas's father all along, but the only way he can acknowledge him is by admitting that he made the switch.

Katie was so in the wrong to involve herself in their business, but so in the right about everything she was saying.  If Caroline were 100% wanting to never tell Thomas, I could kind of get behind it, but IMO it has always been clear that she wanted to tell the truth.  Watching Ridge browbeat her about "my kid" is just stomach-turning.  I want her at some point to look him in the eye, and remind him that the ONLY rights he has to "the kid" (since they're assuming Thomas is the bio-dad) are those that she deems to give him.  STFU, TKRidge, and go take a seat next to Katie.

[LittleIggy]

Thomas the Creeper is now Thomas the Kidnapper. BTW, I still believe he raped Caroline because she was incapacitated and couldn't give consent. That is rape.

[KerleyQ]

11 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Thomas the Creeper is now Thomas the Kidnapper. BTW, I still believe he raped Caroline because she was incapacitated and couldn't give consent. That is rape.

Agreed.  A rape victim may have various reasons for not acknowledging what happened to her as being rape.  In Caroline's case, those reasons could include things like not wanting to think of herself as a rape victim, not wanting Ridge to kill his son, her own confusion/shame over what happened, and just not wanting to think about it.  

[thewhiteowl]

All those things could be true @KerleyQ but we have not seen anything that indicates any of it. Caroline seems to feel like she gave consent, although the audience didn't see it. Maybe she would not have, if not impaired but we don't know that.  It could change but has not yet. IMO

Edited May 10, 2016 by thewhiteowl
Clarity

[Anna Yolei]

8 hours ago, AussieBabe said:

Absolutely. I can't take Tiny Tim aka Rick and his, "I deserve to live in daddy's mansion and be CEO." I'm way past over Maya/Nicole and this "gift." Bell is so caught up on being PC that any realism is gone. Mya and Rick are the only unit that have continued to be in the honeymoon stage and not experienced anything negative since getting married. I just find it hard to believe that she's just going to hand the baby over and not feel anything. Even if she isn't maternal or stayed true to script, she will always have an unbreakable bond. I'm curious to see how that will work out in the future and if she'll have regrets after the possible Sasha/Zende spoiler. Maybe it will implode in the future. I just would have preferred to at least see some internal struggles or for Maya to experience some pangs of envy over Viv/Nicole or Nicole/Rick bonding over something she'll never experience. This has just been way too perfect, and if it always went like that in life, intended parents and surrogates wouldn't end up in court or have laws to protect either side. And in some cases, surrogates have won custody.

I can't believe I'm citing the Taylor/Brooke egg switch as a positive example, but considering their history and the fact that Brooke had been sniffing around Nick not that long before, the conflict that ensued followed a logical trajectory. Taylor's being hesitant about bonding with the baby made sense. Under more talented writers, the conflict could've played out well into baby Jack's teen years like the Kay/Jill thing with Philip.

Maya and Rick OTOH have been in straight Lala Land since they got married. I realize the writers won't break them up for the same reasons that other gay and lesbian couples in soapdom's past remained together well beyond their sell-by date, ATWT'S Luke and Noah *cough*, but there are so many other ways to create conflict. Hell, I'd have even accepted the Rick/Nicole bonding and Maya being jealous. It wouldn't be tested first time he's gotten between two sisters or a barely legal chick.

[Anna Yolei]

To Cindylou:

The Ridge/Brooke thing is a whole different can of worms. As far as I've seen of the few clips of Youtube, Brooke was very much sober and in her right mind when they boinked. She'd also only recently spit up w/ Ridge when she and Eric got together, so I don't feel like shedding crocodile tears for him, either.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Anna Yolei

[politichick]

14 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

All those things could be true @KerleyQ but we have not seen anything that indicates any of it. Caroline seems to feel like she gave consent, although the audience didn't see it. Maybe she would not have, if not impaired but we don't know that.  It could change but has not yet. IMO

Um, no she does not think she gave consent, which is why she was so horrified the next morning. When he kissed her that night she was totally out of it. I think she partly blames herself for what happened because she'd taken some of Pam's anti-anxiety pills and then drank because in no way would she have slept with that perv while grieving for what she thought was the end of her romance with Ridge. They had one bottle of wine so I doubt Thomas was sloshed. He totally took advantage of her that night, Even if she weren't out of it, she was crying for another man. He has no boundaries and is disgusting.

Now Thomas has run off with the child, proving Ridge's point. I seriously hope Douglas is not Thomas's child. He's too stupid to fuck, never mind procreate.

As for Wyatt, he's another ass who has too few boundaries. He knows Steffy still loves Liam, which is why he's working so hard to tell Liam to back off. If he were confident about her feelings about him he would show a lot more confidence, like when he rolled into Liam's house with a bottle of champs and told him he was moving out. I dislike Wyatt only slightly less than I do Thomas.

Whew! This was a lot of venting for someone who hasn't even yet seen the episode!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

remind him that the ONLY rights he has to "the kid" (since they're assuming Thomas is the bio-dad) are those that she deems to give him

I dunno, unless the laws in CA are different, Ridge is the legal father of Douglas because he was Caroline's husband when the child was born. I think the only thing that could change that is if a DNA test is done, it goes Thomas' way, and then Thomas sues to have himself declared the legal father.

Quote

Caroline seems to feel like she gave consent

I think Caroline seems to feel like she didn't not give consent, or, she gave consent by virtue of not being in a condition to say "no". I see it as mostly guilt on her part and that guilt is causing her assume responsibility for what happened to her. Plus, as mentioned upthread, she may not want to think of herself as a rape victim, which in turn would make her child the product of rape (something some people would see as a stigma, unfortunately). I get why she might want to keep all that potential baggage away from her child but I don't get letting Thomas completely off the hook. She acts like she and Thomas are old besties. Katie might know what she's doing by planting it in Caroline's head that her and Thomas's relationship will deepen because of they'll be co-parenting Douglas.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[TobinAlbers]

I don't begrudge Wyatt fighting for Steffy, I do get put off by him just walking into Liam's house like he owns the place and interrupting a private conversation, continuing to argue with Liam in front of Steffy and putting her in the middle of their fight and blaming Liam for putting her in the middle, taking it upon himself to tell Liam how Steffy feels (with Steffy actually standing there and letting him) and finally acting as if Liam kidnapped Steffy and brought her to his home when SHE dragged her own butt over there because she wanted to talk to him. Boy, don't you have a job at Spencer publications you need to focus on? Trust your wife by trusting your wife.

Ridge, I love you in theory but again with the poo you were spouting at Thomas. No, just no.

Thomas, even if you have a moral leg to stand on absconding with Doug, think this through. Legally Ridge and Caroline are that baby's parents so you have indeed committed a crime and kidnapped him. Are you intending to fake your deaths and run off to Paris to raise the kid? Because you can't think that Steffy, Eric, or Taylor are going to be 100% supportive of you taking that kid and not tell Caroline or Ridge where you are? They really do need Taylor for this story to not only support Thomas but be up in Katie's grill about her helping things along for Katie to slap back at her 'I just helped them like you were helping me with Bill and Brooke.' 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

On 5/9/2016 at 0:41 PM, Cool Breeze said:

Rena Sofer's face looked a little "off" last week.  I'm wondering whether she pulled the new-haircut-so-you-won't-think-it's-plastic-surgery routine.

So glad I am not alone, completely agree!  The camera didn't go too close to her, bangs and she kept pulling her hair in front of her...I noticed her lips were off when she talked too!

[thewhiteowl]

17 minutes ago, politichick said:

Um, no she does not think she gave consent, which is why she was so horrified the next morning. When he kissed her that night she was totally out of it. I think she partly blames herself for what happened because she'd taken some of Pam's anti-anxiety pills and then drank because in no way would she have slept with that perv while grieving for what she thought was the end of her romance with Ridge. They had one bottle of wine so I doubt Thomas was sloshed. He totally took advantage of her that night, Even if she weren't out of it, she was crying for another man. He has no boundaries and is disgusting.

Now Thomas has run off with the child, proving Ridge's point. I seriously hope Douglas is not Thomas's child. He's too stupid to fuck, never mind procreate.

 

Um, yes. She was horrified by what she had done. I could be mistaken but I don't think I have seen her give Thomas any shit for it.  As odd as it may be on this show she seems to be taking some, a little, responsibility for her own actions. Just the way I see it. YMMV

[CountryGirl]

I seriously cannot believe we are still debating whether or not Thomas raped Caroline. 

His being drunk is not a defense to the crime of rape. If it was, plenty of rapist whiskey dicks the world over would walk away scot-free. Um, no...

Caroline wasn't in a position to give consent as she was practically unconscious when he kissed her.  So Thomas didn't know about the pills. So what? He knew she had been drinking, he was there for part of it, and the reason why - if that wasn't a huge red flag saying "be her friend and nothing more!" I don't what is. She was lying there like a limp fish, her eyes kept falling closed and we could see her vantage point of Thomas, all blurry, as she began to lose consciousness, and this after hours of crying her eyes out over Ridge.

Even if Caroline was in a position to give consent, which I do not concede, but if I did, what part of any of her behavior says, please fuck me now, Thomas?

Thomas' mistaken belief that he had consent does not negate that this was rape either because his POV? Irrelevant because of course that's what rapists argue. She wanted me/it/fucked. 

I don't have to see what happened after Thomas kissed her that night to draw the very logical conclusion of what came next. Her horrified response and protectively pulling the covers around herself the morning after and her actions ever since, of not wanting to be his victim, of excusing Thomas' actions, while looking as if she wants to vomit, are all textbook signs of being assaulted. Even in the recent scenes with Katie, you can see her wanting to curl up in the fetal position and be physically ill.

And that bitch, Katie, is continuing to victimize her by having the audacity to hand wave what happened to Caroline as a night of drunken sex (because you know that even though Ridge had served his purpose where getting revenge on Brooke was concerned, it still stuck in Katie's craw that Ridge would be all, girl, bye, I found someone else). I wanted to reach through the TV and slap the shit out of her.  This is none of her business. NONE. And the comparisons to Brooke? No...Ridge chose to confide in Brooke. Katie eavesdropped on Ridge and the ex-doctor and then the lush trotted her nosy ass over to the doctor's table, trolling for dirt. 

I don't care for Ridge and his Svengali behavior with Caroline of late, but I wish he would have told Katie to GTFO when she first approached him. 

As for Thomas, while I can understand his anger because in his demented little mind, he thinks he's the victim here, he gets no sympathy from me. Baby Douglas wouldn't even exist but for his raping Caroline so he can GTFO, too.

[politichick]

12 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I seriously cannot believe we are still debating whether or not Thomas raped Caroline. 

His being drunk is not a defense to the crime of rape. If it was, plenty of rapist whiskey dicks the world over would walk away scot-free. Um, no...

Caroline wasn't in a position to give consent as she was practically unconscious when he kissed her.  So Thomas didn't know about the pills. So what? He knew she had been drinking, he was there for part of it, and the reason why - if that wasn't a huge red flag saying "be her friend and nothing more!" I don't what is. She was lying there like a limp fish, her eyes kept falling closed and we could see her vantage point of Thomas, all blurry, as she began to lose consciousness, and this after hours of crying her eyes out over Ridge.

Even if Caroline was in a position to give consent, which I do not concede, but if I did, what part of any of her behavior says, please fuck me now, Thomas?

Thomas' mistaken belief that he had consent does not negate that this was rape either because his POV? Irrelevant because of course that's what rapists argue. She wanted me/it/fucked. 

I don't have to see what happened after Thomas kissed her that night to draw the very logical conclusion of what came next. Her horrified response and protectively pulling the covers around herself the morning after and her actions ever since, of not wanting to be his victim, of excusing Thomas' actions, while looking as if she wants to vomit, are all textbook signs of being assaulted. Even in the recent scenes with Katie, you can see her wanting to curl up in the fetal position and be physically ill.

And that bitch, Katie, is continuing to victimize her by having the audacity to hand wave what happened to Caroline as a night of drunken sex (because you know that even though Ridge had served his purpose where getting revenge on Brooke was concerned, it still stuck in Katie's craw that Ridge would be all, girl, bye, I found someone else). I wanted to reach through the TV and slap the shit out of her.  This is none of her business. NONE. And the comparisons to Brooke? No...Ridge chose to confide in Brooke. Katie eavesdropped on Ridge and the ex-doctor and then the lush trotted her nosy ass over to the doctor's table, trolling for dirt. 

I don't care for Ridge and his Svengali behavior with Caroline of late, but I wish he would have told Katie to GTFO when she first approached him. 

As for Thomas, while I can understand his anger because in his demented little mind, he thinks he's the victim here, he gets no sympathy from me. Baby Douglas wouldn't even exist but for his raping Caroline so he can GTFO, too.

OMG. So much fucking WORD here.Right on, sister!

[Waldo13]

51 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I seriously cannot believe we are still debating whether or not Thomas raped Caroline. 

His being drunk is not a defense to the crime of rape. If it was, plenty of rapist whiskey dicks the world over would walk away scot-free. Um, no...

Caroline wasn't in a position to give consent as she was practically unconscious when he kissed her.  So Thomas didn't know about the pills. So what? He knew she had been drinking, he was there for part of it, and the reason why - if that wasn't a huge red flag saying "be her friend and nothing more!" I don't what is. She was lying there like a limp fish, her eyes kept falling closed and we could see her vantage point of Thomas, all blurry, as she began to lose consciousness, and this after hours of crying her eyes out over Ridge.

Even if Caroline was in a position to give consent, which I do not concede, but if I did, what part of any of her behavior says, please fuck me now, Thomas?

Thomas' mistaken belief that he had consent does not negate that this was rape either because his POV? Irrelevant because of course that's what rapists argue. She wanted me/it/fucked. 

I don't have to see what happened after Thomas kissed her that night to draw the very logical conclusion of what came next. Her horrified response and protectively pulling the covers around herself the morning after and her actions ever since, of not wanting to be his victim, of excusing Thomas' actions, while looking as if she wants to vomit, are all textbook signs of being assaulted. Even in the recent scenes with Katie, you can see her wanting to curl up in the fetal position and be physically ill.

And that bitch, Katie, is continuing to victimize her by having the audacity to hand wave what happened to Caroline as a night of drunken sex (because you know that even though Ridge had served his purpose where getting revenge on Brooke was concerned, it still stuck in Katie's craw that Ridge would be all, girl, bye, I found someone else). I wanted to reach through the TV and slap the shit out of her.  This is none of her business. NONE. And the comparisons to Brooke? No...Ridge chose to confide in Brooke. Katie eavesdropped on Ridge and the ex-doctor and then the lush trotted her nosy ass over to the doctor's table, trolling for dirt. 

I don't care for Ridge and his Svengali behavior with Caroline of late, but I wish he would have told Katie to GTFO when she first approached him. 

As for Thomas, while I can understand his anger because in his demented little mind, he thinks he's the victim here, he gets no sympathy from me. Baby Douglas wouldn't even exist but for his raping Caroline so he can GTFO, too.

This X 1,000

 

Thomas took advantage of the fact that Caroline wasn't coherent enough to give or not give consent. She was virtually passed out and it wasn't like "beer goggles" where Caroline would be an active participant in drunkin passion. Thomas just went ahead and planted his seed not even knowing if Caroline was on birth control nor gave any though if Caroline wanted his seed planted. Thomas didn't even put a helmet on his "his little brain" to protect Caroline from a STD being how sexually active he has been.  I'm quite sure that Caroline didn't want to be seen as a victim.  Thomas is not only a rapist but now he's a kidnapper.  I find it quite fortunate that Thomas has a baby seat receptacle in his car.  

 

I bet Steffy was tingling in her nether region that two men were fighting over her. I will bet dollars to donuts that Liam would, once again, drop Steffy, in a heartbeat, if Hope wanted him back.  

 

Katie and Brooke are miserable and are not happy if people are not miserable around them.  The plot thickens.  I would call it total BS if Nicole doesn't react the same way as Thomas. 

[La di Diva]

Since Show is characterizing the Thomas/ Caroline thing as "taking advantage" and not calling it rape, that's what I'm doing. But only within the context of the show, not how I'd think in real life.  And yes Thomas and Dougie's Excellent Roadtrip Adventure is ill-advised but I see Thomas's point.  Ridge has again slapped Thomas down, asserted The Law of Ridge and declared that Douglas is his and that Thomas has No rights to his son. At all.  Ever. Never. Forget about it. STFU. Go away.

Thomas is gob smacked to find out he's a father and is angry at Ridge's ultimatum.  I have to say I floved when Thomas reminded Ridge yesterday that he is Douglas' grandfather.  Definitely shows Ridge he's not the young swinging peen getting all the girls any more.

I cannot stand TKRidge. He is too smug, smirky, dismissive, know it all.  And for all that he says he loves Caroline, their family, and "the kid" he browbeats Caroline into always doing what he says until she seems nothing more than a perpetually frightened child.  I detect under his repeatedly professed love for "the kid, my son", that he is angry at Caroline for sleeping with Thomas (no matter what the circumstances) and angry that she presented him with a child not his own. A child he more or less had to claim as Caroline was adamant she was having the baby. 

I think Caroline needs to grow a spine and leave Ridge, not to go to Thomas, but to be a mother on her own.

[ByTor]

21 minutes ago, La di Diva said:

Thomas is gob smacked to find out he's a father and is angry at Ridge's ultimatum.  I have to say I floved when Thomas reminded Ridge yesterday that he is Douglas' grandfather.  Definitely shows Ridge he's not the young swinging peen getting all the girls any more.

I wanted to smack the smug off Ridge's oily face every time he asked Thomas if they had an understanding.

[Gudzilla]

Oh poor dumb Liam, don't you know the quickest way to get Steffy back is to find another girl.

[KerleyQ]

1 hour ago, La di Diva said:

 

Since Show is characterizing the Thomas/ Caroline thing as "taking advantage" and not calling it rape, that's what I'm doing. But only within the context of the show, not how I'd think in real life

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think that "taking advantage" is just a polite way of saying he raped her.  He took advantage of her inebriated state to get something from her that was not on offer when she was sober and awake.  

[slayer2]

10 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I am alone as well, I don't see Thomas as a rapist because Caroline doesn't. Skeevy, yes. If both say it wasn't rape then I go with that. I can't get behind a possible babynapping, though. 

Yes, I'd love to see Bill go after Steffy just to crack Brooke's face. Working to bust up his marriage to have him go for a young glittery cooch? Priceless!

I strongly endorse this post and all it contains within. I would be doubly excited about a face-cracked Brooke.

5 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

All those things could be true @KerleyQ but we have not seen anything that indicates any of it. Caroline seems to feel like she gave consent, although the audience didn't see it. Maybe she would not have, if not impaired but we don't know that.  It could change but has not yet. IMO

This! ?We haven't seen her give consent but by the same token we haven't seen her NOT give consent. Since we have not seen proof that he raped her we have to go by what both of them are saying which is that he didn't. I agree the show is handling it terribly, they should honestly shoot a scene that is one way or the other to end the discourse once and for all because the ambiguity is icky but in the meantime I'm going to follow the narrative and the history which hasn't shown me Thomas being the kind of guy to be into raping women or forcing women when consent isn't implicitly given.

Edited May 11, 2016 by slayer2

[Cupid Stunt]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 7:08 PM, grisgris said:

Anyway, I don't really have a dog in that fight with Ridge/Caroline/Katie. I can't get behind Katie for forcing an issue that was none of her business whatsoever. OTOH, Ridge has behaved like a complete jackass throughout the whole ordeal. First, he was belligerent and punishing to Thomas without being honest as to the reason why. Secondly, he bullied and browbeat  Caroline into cowering submission to keep their secret, even when she really felt it was best to tell Thomas the truth. Really, Ridge is no better than Mr. Avant, being that Ridge's main reason (or so he said) for not revealing WTD was to avoid "scandal."

 

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 8:10 PM, Bill C. said:

If anything my dog would probably be Caroline, but that aside I'm actually kind of torn on this.  Ridge (and this is where I admit I kind of like TK!Ridge a little more than RM!Ridge; he's not as much of a full-time raging egomaniac IMO, though he certainly has his moments, and is generally calmer) admittedly was wrong for initially not telling Caroline why he couldn't (until proven otherwise) give her a child and breaking up with her over that, but then we hit Rape Night and...yeeeaaah.

From day one, TK's Ridge has been written dictating who what when where why everyone is supposed to who what when where why. He dumped Brooke, then ran off to stop Brooke from marrying $Bill, then dropped her like a hot rock. When he came back unable to draw, he swore Katie to secrecy, and used Caroline's GirlFan idolatry of him, swore her to secrecy and had her be his hands. After having her lie to Rick (convenient, since Ridge hated Rick being CEO of Forrester Creations), taking possession of Caroline's hands, Ridge took possession of the rest of her (dropping Katie like a hot rock), and he's been telling Caroline what to do and what she needs to know ever since.

After Ridge was forced by Katie to tell her Thomas is (most likely in his mind) Doug's father, he should have got on the horn and told Caroline to grab Doug and come to the office immediately, instead of leave Caroline unknowing and unaware with Katie on the hunt for the real truth; Ridge had already menaced, threatened and lied to Katie several times about Dr.Sperm, so she had no reason to believe Ridge's version about Doug -- Of, course she would go a rattle Caroline's cage.

Quote

Ridge wanting to punish Thomas for that, wrong as it is, makes a certain vicious sense in-show.  His browbeating Caroline into keeping the secret is where it gets muddy.  His case was that if it got out the resulting scandal would indeed destroy their marriage, which isn't impossible but still a bit of a leap--maybe more of a skip by B&B standards since people break up on the drop of a hat, but still.  If he'd said then that Thomas might come after Caroline's baby or something, perhaps...I don't know...I'm admittedly still way over in the "Douglas is really Ridge's child" corner by myself, since the show has gone so hard on this playing out as you'd expect up to this point.

Ridge forced into telling Thomas he is most likely Doug's father was as I expected. It really doesn't matter what Ridge's motivations were in not being up front about knowing Thomas had raped Caroline and Doug is the likely issue from Rape Night ... Saying he's protecting Doug from the knowledge of being a product of rape and the subsequent public scandal is all well and good if you know for certain Doug was fathered by Thomas, but Ridge refused to even consider the idea (I'm sitting at the Ridge Forrester Super Sperm FTW cocktail table).

Decreeing to Thomas "My castle. My rules." and if you have truly changed you will abide by my decision and do what is best for Doug -- Yeah, well. That didn't work out so well; Ridge and Caroline had been deceiving Thomas from the start, and there was no reason to think they would stop lying to him about Doug. Thomas running off with Doug I expected, and I expect that Doug's WTD? scrum will hit the media once the police are called. So much for protecting Doug from the immature adults in his orbit.

Thomas talking about change was just talk, and has never been anything but talk. Thomas has always been a creep, doing whatever he thought he could get away with to take what he wanted, violently striking out in revenge, jealous of anyone who might be ahead of him, lying to avoid repercussions, using then tossing aside when bored -- He's the personification of Ridge and Taylor's pathetic relationship.

How Eric suddenly has the power to remove Ridge, Steffy, Caroline and Thomas from their positions at Forrester Creations is a NEW development and/or a lie Ridge is using to manipulate Thomas to do what he wants. That Eric would advise Ridge, Caroline and Thomas to step down because they are making public jackasses of themselves to Doug's detriment, I could understand. But unilateral firings by Eric and Rick becomes King for a Day at Forrester Creations ... I don't think so.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Cupid Stunt

[Anna Yolei]

I may be alone in this, but I don't think Katie's buttsinki routine has anything to do with revenge and fucking with Ridge. Compared to many couples, theirs was a particularly amicable split and Bradley Bell has wisely kept them in separate corners...till now. Plus, Rick's insanity tops anything Katie could have dreamed up.

No, I'm thinking this is meant for Katie to drive a wedge and open a pathway for Brooke to focus her energy on newly single Ridge. I really can't think of any other thing that makes any kind of sense otherwise. I doubt even Katie is so spiteful to bust up a relationship she got gypped on well over a year after the fact.

That said, NuRidge sucks worse than original recipe Ridge. He has always been self centered but I can't think of a time where he was a complete domineering control freak with the women in his life. He was more like Liam.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Looked like hipster boy Thomas was wearing dress shoes with no socks. Is that a thing and if it is, how does he not get blisters? Ouch.

Yeesh, has Ridge been watching Find Nemo with little Douglas? And speaking of the baby, was that the same one? He looked a little different to me today. Bigger and older.

Let go, my eye. I give it until the end of the week tops before Steffy and Liam are having a secret meeting, again. Give it up, Wyatt. You know you can't trust your wife as long as Liam is around.

[Cupid Stunt]

7 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

All those things could be true @KerleyQ but we have not seen anything that indicates any of it. Caroline seems to feel like she gave consent, although the audience didn't see it. Maybe she would not have, if not impaired but we don't know that.  It could change but has not yet. IMO

In the Caroline montage: She's remembering waking up next to Thomas crying out "NO NO NO NO!" after he told her he had "made love" to her.

"NO NO NO NO!" indicates that Caroline did not consent to Thomas having sex with her drugged and drunk person.

 

AMEN Country Girl. Politichick and Joimiaroxeu!

Edited May 11, 2016 by Cupid Stunt

[La di Diva]

I've always thought that Caroline's morning after Oh Nos were based, not on the no consent, but on the fact that she was unfaithful to Ridge.  That No, No, No was her beating herself up for having sex with another man, being unfaithful to Ridge -- even though he broke up with her.

And I will never, ever buy CaRidge as the twu wuv for the ages.  Ridge has gotten himself a worshipful, semi-stepford, young trophy wife and has proved he's still the big swinging peen that all the girls go for.  Can you say mid-life crisis.  Of course you can.  Same as with Eric and Brooke all those years ago.

And Caroline?  Caroline has a huge case of hero worship for the Great and Talented Ridge Forrester International Super Designer.  He chose little ol' her to be his hands when he couldn't draw.  He was all flattery and smiles and seductive touches and this is our secret and no one can know not even Rick.  And in her hero worship she bought into it. That's not love -- that's a huge crush and infatuation,  And... I've always though there was a little bit of sticking it to Rick in Ridge's pursuit of Caroline.

Why can't there be someone new for Caroline who will help her grow up and become her own person.  Where is Det. Dr. HardOn when you need him, No really, where is he? I thought he was joining the show.

[Sayla Vee]

8 hours ago, politichick said:

Um, no she does not think she gave consent, which is why she was so horrified the next morning. When he kissed her that night she was totally out of it. I think she partly blames herself for what happened because she'd taken some of Pam's anti-anxiety pills and then drank because in no way would she have slept with that perv while grieving for what she thought was the end of her romance with Ridge. They had one bottle of wine so I doubt Thomas was sloshed. He totally took advantage of her that night, Even if she weren't out of it, she was crying for another man. He has no boundaries and is disgusting.

Now Thomas has run off with the child, proving Ridge's point. I seriously hope Douglas is not Thomas's child. He's too stupid to fuck, never mind procreate.

As for Wyatt, he's another ass who has too few boundaries. He knows Steffy still loves Liam, which is why he's working so hard to tell Liam to back off. If he were confident about her feelings about him he would show a lot more confidence, like when he rolled into Liam's house with a bottle of champs and told him he was moving out. I dislike Wyatt only slightly less than I do Thomas.

Whew! This was a lot of venting for someone who hasn't even yet seen the episode!

Nah, they made a point of showing us two bottles, and noting that Caroline had ordered the first, but Thomas ordered another bottle.