The Bullpen

[Bookish Jen]

Just now, ReidFan said:

well I have this guy :D

Big Pimpin!

[ReidFan]

LOL! um. no. his name is AJ, he's actually named after Andrew Jackson (the actor who literally saved my sanity one day, he played Tim Vogel, the unsub in the pilot episode of CM). My son grew up with this bear (even though AJ is MINE!), slept with him every night for years. AJ is actually four feet tall, you can't see it in the photo cause there's no reference, but the Fedora is from  my son's middle school graduation. Pimpin...nah. Gangsta, maybe :)

[Bookish Jen]

20 hours ago, ReidFan said:

LOL! um. no. his name is AJ, he's actually named after Andrew Jackson (the actor who literally saved my sanity one day, he played Tim Vogel, the unsub in the pilot episode of CM). My son grew up with this bear (even though AJ is MINE!), slept with him every night for years. AJ is actually four feet tall, you can't see it in the photo cause there's no reference, but the Fedora is from  my son's middle school graduation. Pimpin...nah. Gangsta, maybe :)

Cute! Wow! AJ is almost as big as me. And I'd love to see your son in his fedora. I bet he was very stylish in that pic. My nephew, who is in middle school, has long hair and a near genius IQ. He's been referred to as Dr. Nephew in these parts. He's also tall and lanky, which he got from his dad's side of the family.

[Bookish Jen]

"Happy Wednesday, my nerds!"

Dr. Spencer Reid really like the mug Bookish Jen gave him.

[normasm]

I need that one

[Bookish Jen]

1 minute ago, normasm said:

I need that one

You and me both.

[Bookish Jen]

"Happy Wednesday, my nerds!"

When unsubs create exercise equipment.

[Droogie]

MGG is the cutest little nugget, and I suppose I get what he is trying to do, but I don't think now is the best time to be flippant.

 

 

[Bookish Jen]

17 hours ago, Droogie said:

MGG is the cutest little nugget, and I suppose I get what he is trying to do, but I don't think now is the best time to be flippant.

 

 

Nice to know the cutest little nugget also has Neosporin in his medicine cabinet just like a lot of us. At least he didn't try to brush his chompers with Preparation H, Clearasil or coconut oil*

Yep, a bit flippant, but he might be trying to keep himself cheered up during "Kickgate" and TG's dismissal. He might be keeping it light because he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers on the CM set, especially when it comes to the powers that be.

And I wonder if Virgil has banned Matthew from his Twitter feed. If so, Matthew should consider it an honor.

*Just so you all know I do not have Preparation H or Clearasil in my medicine cabinet. But I do have coconut oil; I use it to take off my make-up, deep conditioner my hair, etc.

[ForeverAlone]

As of right now, nobody associated with Criminal Minds (that I follow in any case) has unfollowed Virgil. And as near as I can tell, Virgil hasn't unfollowed anybody. But I imagine most of the cast and crew just want to avoid all of this and move forward. 

[Bookish Jen]

13 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

As of right now, nobody associated with Criminal Minds (that I follow in any case) has unfollowed Virgil. And as near as I can tell, Virgil hasn't unfollowed anybody. But I imagine most of the cast and crew just want to avoid all of this and move forward. 

I agree. It's probably not a good time to stir the pot, and just keep focused on various tasks needed to make an episode of CM. But I can imagine most of the cast and crew is pretty stressed out right now. I know I would be. Heck, the only connection I have to CM is as a viewer and I'm stressed out.

#ThereisjustnotenoughboxedwineformetodealwithCMrightnow

[zannej]

I think Matthew's way of dealing with a lot of bad things happening is to think of unicorns and puppies or something. I absolutely think he's trying to cheer himself up and keep out of the bad stuff. And he can't say anything without offending some people. He seemed to really like TG but he has to work with Virgil. They all do.

[normasm]

11 minutes ago, zannej said:

I think Matthew's way of dealing with a lot of bad things happening is to think of unicorns and puppies or something. I absolutely think he's trying to cheer himself up and keep out of the bad stuff. And he can't say anything without offending some people. He seemed to really like TG but he has to work with Virgil. They all do.

This is exactly correct. But I hope they won't have to work with Virgil for long.

[Bookish Jen]

I was getting rather philosophical last night and thinking how CM is a microcosm of society as a whole. In the past few days, we have seen CM's reputation marred by the bad behavior of both TG and Virgil. Both have shown a true lack of civility, which is also reflected in our society, including the media, pop culture, sports,the workplaces, education, our communities, the Internet, business and Wall Street, our very own homes, and especially the political landscape.

And if there is anything this world needs now it is a return to civility. Sorry for getting on a soapbox, but I'm barely over five feet tall. I got to "stand" on something or nobody will see...or hear me.

[ReidFan]

They may have been asked to shut up by TPTB. They may even be contractually obligated to not divulge any of the inside goings on. Or they may have just chosen to close ranks and keep it in the family, as  it were. I haven't seen anything addressing it specifically from any of the others, the only things I've seen are a nice tweet from former CM director larryteng : I've always enjoyed working w/#ThomasGibson and the cast on @CrimMinds_CBS. He was never anything but kind & respectful. Sad to see him go.;  and a post from shemar which has since been deleted that someone here linked to earlier which was more cryptic but about karma and could've been directed at both thomas gibson and the guy who he just successfully sued who stole money from the babygirl company. And Virgil's tweet of course.

Matthew, in particular, is a very positive and upbeat person and probably has nothing but nice things to say about both Thomas Gibson and Virgil Williams.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yeah, I think most of them would have to be kind of politic about a situation like this. If they can fire Thomas, who has been here since the very first episode, they can fire anybody. Except Virgil, I guess. #CrankyPants

[Slj]

I'm confused, Virgil Williams was assaulted at work, he's done nothing wrong, I've seen no accusation of bad behaviour from him, he's not been subject to disciplinary proceedings. I think he's been more than graceful. So why has his behaviour reflected badly on the show?

If it was me Thomas Gibson would be facing charges. There is never any excuse for violence in the workplace, I don't think it should've taken a second incident to fire him. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

I'm sorry Virgil spoiled the fun of your favorite show by being the victim of a 54 year old man handling conflict in a way I learned not to do at four years old. Being a Douche on Twitter isn't on par with physical assault. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Picture It. Sicily
Typo

[Willowy]

Virgil may be cranky, but he didn't come to blows with Thomas, or commit a crime. Thomas did. Provocation may be a reason, but it doesn't excuse physical assault. I feel because Virgil gets testy with the fans, and Thomas is Hotch, it's easier to pile on the unpopular guy. I don't believe some of the remarks I'm seeing (elsewhere, not here!). IMDB people, facebook people, are really worshipping at the TG altar and slamming Virgil hard. 

[zannej]

15 minutes ago, Slj said:

I'm confused, Virgil Williams was assaulted at work, he's done nothing wrong, I've seen no accusation of bad behaviour from him, he's not been subject to disciplinary proceedings. I think he's been more than graceful. So why has his behaviour reflected badly on the show?

If it was me Thomas Gibson would be facing charges. There is never any excuse for violence in the workplace, I don't think it should've taken a second incident to fire him. 

The speculation is that Virgil provoked TG-- but I highly doubt he ever expected it to get physical. I think it was likely a heated argument & he was probably shocked that he got kicked and emotionally hurt and/or angry. Sometimes people get fired over verbal confrontations, but Virgil supposedly went to the higher ups first and without TG being in the room to give his side right away. That can be critical when reports are filed. Often, when a police report for assault is filed in the absence of the accused, it doesn't go well for the latter.

Virgil appeared to be gloating about it on social media afterward, which was offputting and unprofessional. He has a right to do so, but it is in poor taste.

[Lebanna]

We don't know exactly what happened. But I have to say, the whole idea of victim blaming really bugs me, and Virgil Williams in this case, like him or not, is the victim.

[Picture It. Sicily]

5 minutes ago, Franky said:

Virgil may be cranky, but he didn't come to blows with Thomas, or commit a crime. Thomas did. Provocation may be a reason, but it doesn't excuse physical assault. I feel because Virgil gets testy with the fans, and Thomas is Hotch, it's easier to pile on the unpopular guy. I don't believe some of the remarks I'm seeing (elsewhere, not here!). IMDB people, facebook people, are really worshipping at the TG altar and slamming Virgil hard. 

What is really bothering me is I'm hearing a lot of "scary black MMA thug". It's a very disturbing double standard. Black man raises his voice, he's a violent thug. White man kicks a man, what did the black man do to provoke it. And if I'm not reading thug, I'm reading Gibson sources being quoted verbatim, like their word is gospel, but any other sources are not proof enough to satisfy them.

[normasm]

When I'm talking about Virgil, I'm talking about the things he has said, implied, gloated over. He hasn't threatened anyone that I'm aware of.

Those people who are spouting off on Twitter are a bunch of racist turds. They ought to all be banned from Twitter. There's a difference between expressing an opinion and engaging in hate speech and death threats. It also does nothing to "defend" Thomas Gibson, which is what the idiots think they are doing.

[thewhiteowl]

Okay, please take it down a notch or three. No one is name calling here and I'd really like to keep it that way. If other places or board tick you off, please keep your rage there. Spreading it here is not helpful. 

[ReidFan]

I just went through Virgil Williams' imdb page. He's 'written' 15 episodes of CM. And funny enough, he wrote both "Lockdown" and "Boxed In" which Thomas Gibson directed. So obviously, they're worked-- and I would think worked well since ther was never any talk of any issues on those shoots--together before. He wrote a couple I liked well enough- "The Apprenticeship" and "Hostage" but he also wrote a couple of really blech ones that I hate- Route 66, Outlaw, Protection and Tribute.

I just find it odd that VW--who writes dreadful Reid--is responsible for the two directed by TG that I liked best.

[Droogie]

1 hour ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

What is really bothering me is I'm hearing a lot of "scary black MMA thug". It's a very disturbing double standard. Black man raises his voice, he's a violent thug. White man kicks a man, what did the black man do to provoke it. And if I'm not reading thug, I'm reading Gibson sources being quoted verbatim, like their word is gospel, but any other sources are not proof enough to satisfy them.

You're not hearing that here.  You're hearing comments from multiple people who've had dealings with Virgil Williams in social media and have no trouble believing he acted provocatively and baited Thomas.  Thomas was wrong to kick him but if he was approached in what he perceived to be a threatening manner, as he was walking away, which seems to be the case (although none of us were there), then he had a right to defend himself.  I don't care if they were both purple.  Thomas was wrong, dead wrong, to kick him, if in fact that's what he did.  Virgil was wrong, dead wrong, to goad and harass, if in fact that's what he did.

A man who isn't in control of himself enough to refrain from resorting to violence needs to be disciplined.  A man who isn't in control of himself enough to refrain from instigating, shit-stirring and subsequently gloating needs disciplined as well.  The color of each man's skin is not a factor, as long as neither of the men in question makes it one.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

What is really bothering me is I'm hearing a lot of "scary black MMA thug". It's a very disturbing double standard. Black man raises his voice, he's a violent thug. White man kicks a man, what did the black man do to provoke it. And if I'm not reading thug, I'm reading Gibson sources being quoted verbatim, like their word is gospel, but any other sources are not proof enough to satisfy them.

That's interesting. It doesn't really surprise me that there is a double standard there. But, I will say that I have been wondering if VW did anything to provoke this, and what the context/full story was, and I had no idea what race VW is. I've never seen a picture of the guy or heard his race mentioned until now.

I think part of the reason in this case is that it's really easy to see TG as "Hotch", who wouldn't have kicked a coworker without a mighty good reason (e.g. self-defense, defense of someone else, etc).

[JMO]

I think accusations of 'victim blaming' come from trying to look at the incident as 'black or white', when it reeks of shades of gray.  

TG has a track record of at least one violent outburst, and now, a second.  It's immature and impulsive behavior.  VM has a track record, available to anyone with the stomach to read back through his twitter, of being provocative, testy, and petty.  That is also immature.  But it is far from impulsive.  Passive-aggressive behavior is purposeful, and is extremely difficult to manage in the workplace.  The passive aggressive sets him/herself up for victimization as a matter of course.  If you've not encountered such a personality, consider yourself fortunate.  

Going only by their known personality traits, I think it is very possible----likely, really--that TG was provoked, manipulated, after a fashion, in a systematic way, and had the expected response.  It doesn't excuse his behavior.  But neither does it excuse the passive-aggressor.  The volatile personality will always bear the brunt in these kinds of situations, because their actions or speech are difficult to ignore.  But passive aggression is equally harmful.  In the long run, it's poison.

[Slj]

I wouldn't judge Virgil Williams personality by the way he handles 'fans' of the show on Twitter. Just because he's a writer on your favourite show doesn't mean he has to put up with you*.  How I deal with people on social media is not how I deal with colleagues. 

You can dress it up however you want, he did nothing wrong and there is a petition to get him fired. It really does come over as a white guy did something wrong and people are trying to get a black man fired for it. 

Does anyone here really think if a black actor assaulted a white writer we'd be having this conversation about provocation?

I don't think the original incident was about race, but the reactions of people do show inherent racial bias. 

*the general you, not anyone here. 

[JMO]

4 minutes ago, Slj said:

I wouldn't judge Virgil Williams personality by the way he handles 'fans' of the show on Twitter. Just because he's a writer on your favourite show doesn't mean he has to put up with you*.  How I deal with people on social media is not how I deal with colleagues. 

You can dress it up however you want, he did nothing wrong and there is a petition to get him fired. It really does come over as a white guy did something wrong and people are trying to get a black man fired for it. 

Does anyone here really think if a black actor assaulted a white writer we'd be having this conversation about provocation?

I don't think the original incident was about race, but the reactions of people do show inherent racial bias. 

*the general you, not anyone here. 

Virgil did nothing illegal. That has nothing to do with whether he did anything 'wrong'. 

For my money,, we should all behave on social media the way we behave in other aspects of our lives.  Communication is communication. We all need to be responsible for all of our communication, all of the time.

[Droogie]

15 minutes ago, Slj said:

You can dress it up however you want, he did nothing wrong and there is a petition to get him fired. It really does come over as a white guy did something wrong and people are trying to get a black man fired for it. 

Does anyone here really think if a black actor assaulted a white writer we'd be having this conversation about provocation?

?

[Danielg342]

If Thomas Gibson truly did feel threatened by Virgil Williams, why didn't he say so? Why didn't he raise the issue when human resources (or whomever handles these complaints) raised the incident with him?

Perhaps by "taking the high road" and not attacking Williams in his statements Gibson hopes his remorse will rub off well on his image and he can move on to find other work. However, it strains the credulity to think that if Williams truly is a jerk to work with that we've never heard anything about that. I don't care that  the other CM people haven't talked about it- no doubt someone would, anonymously and "off the record", if Williams truly was a bad guy.

(No, what Gibson's "people" say doesn't count- they have an inherent bias, one to make their actor look good and if that means they'll denigrate Williams, they say "so be it")

I don't care what Williams says or writes on Twitter. His tweets are not his workplace. Furthermore, he might think being snarky with his fans is being "entertaining". Is it unprofessional behaviour on Twitter? Yes it is, but it's no indication of who he is in the workplace. Many people operate online far differently than they do in real life, and, perhaps in Williams' case, he feels justified saying mean things on Twitter because he knows the people he's interacting with he likely won't have to deal with in any other capacities. It's not an ideal way to handle fans, but it's not something I can use to extrapolate who he is to work with.

[Droogie]

20 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't care what Williams says or writes on Twitter. His tweets are not his workplace. Furthermore, he might think being snarky with his fans is being "entertaining". Is it unprofessional behaviour on Twitter? Yes it is, but it's no indication of who he is in the workplace. Many people operate online far differently than they do in real life, and, perhaps in Williams' case, he feels justified saying mean things on Twitter because he knows the people he's interacting with he likely won't have to deal with in any other capacities. It's not an ideal way to handle fans, but it's not something I can use to extrapolate who he is to work with.

First, I think people show you who they are online.  They have anonymity to hide behind.  It's a lot like driving -- people feel insulated in an automobile, which can make them feel vindicated to act rudely and aggressively, when even in their own estimation (true or not), they'd never behave badly to someone's face.

Second, in this day and age, a person's social media can absolutely cause that person to lose his or her job, regardless of whether it is a part of the workplace.  I see it all the time in my field.  In the last month, a nurse I work with lost her job and her nursing license (i.e., she will never work in her chosen profession again), over a post on Instagram with which I objectively could find no fault.  In other words, far, far less incendiary than the posts Virgil has been making over the last 24-48+ hours. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Droogie

[Danielg342]

I'm not saying Williams should get a pass for what he does on Twitter, just that it's no indication of who he is in the studio.

[Droogie]

But it's who he is.

[Willowy]

Droogie, he's a man, with an ego, and a great job, and a family. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's in the wrong. He is absolutely NOT in the wrong, here. He was assaulted. Thomas did it. No matter if he said anything to provoke Thomas or not, that does not justify the law Thomas broke. 

I love Hotch, so much. But Thomas was wrong here. Whether anyone likes Virgil or not, HE was the victim. His personality? Doesn't matter in this situation.

[Droogie]

6 minutes ago, Franky said:

Droogie, he's a man, with an ego, and a great job, and a family. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's in the wrong. He is absolutely NOT in the wrong, here. He was assaulted. Thomas did it. No matter if he said anything to provoke Thomas or not, that does not justify the law Thomas broke. 

I love Hotch, so much. But Thomas was wrong here. Whether anyone likes Virgil or not, HE was the victim. His personality? Doesn't matter in this situation.

I'm not in disagreement with you that he was technically the victim of an assault.  I understand the mechanics and agree.  I do question why the police weren't called if the incident was serious enough to warrant complaint to higher-ups, but that's neither here nor there.  I can separate the fact that I do not like him from the facts at hand.

But while I agree that he was technically a victim, I do not agree that he is innocent.  Furthermore, all I know of his personality is what he has shown me on social media.  And I've already indicated that I believe a person can be held accountable, possibly even in a court of law but most definitely to an employer, for what they put "out there."  As CM famously showed us, "The Internet is Forever."

[Willowy]

I hear you. I can say that I've never had a problem with him on social media. We've communicated several times and he's always been funny and kind of quippy with me. I do know what you're talking about, though. I've seen him respond to criticism with snark and derision, many times. 

I kind of like that he doesn't take any shit. Just because we're fans of the show, doesn't entitle us to some kind of 'kid glove' treatment from the writers. And it shouldn't be the barometer to measure good guy/bad guy status when something of this nature, so serious, happens. Being a brat on social media, while we may not like it, isn't an indictment of someone's culpability. It's just... personality. And that's not legally punishable. Yet. ;)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

10 hours ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

I'm sorry Virgil spoiled the fun of your favorite show by being the victim of a 54 year old man handling conflict in a way I learned not to do at four years old. Being a Douche on Twitter isn't on par with physical assault. 

*eyebrow*

In another section of the forums, I've seen Thomas called a violent person, and I semi-facetiously said I would wait patiently for examples of said violent behavior to be provided. I guess they realized I was mostly being sarcastic, because no examples were offered. But for the sake of argument, let's say that it was a totally unprovoked physical assault, that Virgil was merely having what he thought was a civilized conversation when Thomas flipped his shit for no reason. TG is 54 years old, and though I can't find a birth date for VW, he's apparently some kind of trained fighter, or at least a serious hobbyist. I know shit about MMA and care even less about it, but unless the argument is that Gibson is crazy, why would this happen out of the blue?

Its not that Virgil "spoiled the fun". Its me resenting that now TG is being painted as some out of control maniac who I guess just goes around kicking people because he feels like it. And for all I know he is an out of control maniac who goes around kicking people because he feels like it. But why is this the first we've heard of it? If he has a history, fine. Well, not "fine"; that'd suck because it means he's awful. But I'm not willing to say "Good riddance to bad trash, they should have fired you a long time ago" while Virgil goes unscathed. Not when I've seen ample evidence of the type of ship Erica Messer runs.

[WendyCR72]

I won't convict or acquit Gibson, but objectively, this is not his first time, there was a prior incident, so in that regard, wouldn't that qualify as "history"?

I have no doubt networks are about the money and loyalty is far down the totem pole, if it's there at all. In the end, though, I doubt they'd fire the man if they didn't have just cause. Especially since I'm sure they're aware of the popularity of the character he played and the risk of firing him with such an old show now in a precarious position.

Virgil Williams could be the biggest asshole known to man, and maybe he isn't "innocent" even if he is a victim. But...he's still employed. Gibson is not. So perhaps there is far more to the story than we'll ever be privy to.

[Danielg342]

Honestly, the Virgil stuff feels like a red herring, a convenient thing to bring up just so people angry that Gibson is fired have something to take their frustration out on. I'm not saying Williams is perfect- I'm just not convinced that his transgressions compare in any way to Gibson's.

[Droogie]

It would appear that Virgil is circling the wagons a bit -- lots of deleted tweets, retracted "likes."  I snuck a peek using my husband's account.

Makes sense from a legal perspective, in light of the fact that Thomas has lawyered up.  I feel bad for the rest of the cast and crew who will probably be deposed.  

It's all such a shame.

[Mom x 3]

22 minutes ago, Droogie said:

It would appear that Virgil is circling the wagons a bit -- lots of deleted tweets, retracted "likes."  I snuck a peek using my husband's account.

 

I'm glad you said this, because I took a look also and could not figure out why people were calling him a douchebag.  

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I won't convict or acquit Gibson, but objectively, this is not his first time, there was a prior incident, so in that regard, wouldn't that qualify as "history"?

I have no doubt networks are about the money and loyalty is far down the totem pole, if it's there at all. In the end, though, I doubt they'd fire the man if they didn't have just cause. Especially since I'm sure they're aware of the popularity of the character he played and the risk of firing him with such an old show now in a precarious position.

Virgil Williams could be the biggest asshole known to man, and maybe he isn't "innocent" even if he is a victim. But...he's still employed. Gibson is not. So perhaps there is far more to the story than we'll ever be privy to.

Of course there is far more to this story than we'll ever be privy to. There always is. As I said before there is undoubtedly just cause for termination. And if there wasn't so much past history here suggesting that those in charge of such decisions have made increasingly poor choices when it comes to such matters this would be fairly open and shut. But there is ample evidence that everyone involved here has behaved poorly. None of us knows either the full details of all past workplace behavior on the part of those involved, what was said or is being said in private, the language of the employment contracts involved, or the possible legal/union implications of any discipline against Williams. And none of us can assume that if we did know all the details that it would make sense and that it was just a necessary if unpleasant choice. I'm just glad I'm not one of the lawyers  who will have to try to present any of the parties involved in a good light.

Edited August 14, 2016 by wknt3

[Mysteyman]

If you are a person with anger issues and someone is antagonizing you it is your responsibility to take the high road.

and I say that AS someone with anger issues.

Gibsons top priority now is NOT to seek legal action.

He needs to get help before the rest of his life spins out of control.

I sincerely hope that he makes it.

[Bookish Jen]

Very interesting that CM is a show featuring profilers and everybody here is doing a bit of profiling themselves.

Ah, when life imitates art.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[wknt3]

On 8/13/2016 at 7:56 PM, Slj said:

Does anyone here really think if a black actor assaulted a white writer we'd be having this conversation about provocation?

I don't think the original incident was about race, but the reactions of people do show inherent racial bias. 

*the general you, not anyone here. 

I didn't know he was black and I suspect many others didn't either. The only thing I know about the writing staff is that they have been doing an increasingly crappy job over the past several years. All I know is what I saw quoted and that there have been many previous reports of creative staff on the show engaging in insults, fights, and other bad behavior. If Shemar had kicked Erica Messer and she made the same statements on social media I'd have agreed he deserved to be fired and said that I also don't trust the people in charge of CM and that I suspect that there was other bad behavior involved from other people.

[SSAHotchner]

On 8/13/2016 at 2:33 PM, Bookish Jen said:

Nice to know the cutest little nugget also has Neosporin in his medicine cabinet just like a lot of us. At least he didn't try to brush his chompers with Preparation H, Clearasil or coconut oil*

Yep, a bit flippant, but he might be trying to keep himself cheered up during "Kickgate" and TG's dismissal. He might be keeping it light because he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers on the CM set, especially when it comes to the powers that be.

And I wonder if Virgil has banned Matthew from his Twitter feed. If so, Matthew should consider it an honor.

*Just so you all know I do not have Preparation H or Clearasil in my medicine cabinet. But I do have coconut oil; I use it to take off my make-up, deep conditioner my hair, etc.

Okay, I think we're going to need a picture of the contents of your medicine cabinet just to make sure.

[SSAHotchner]

FWIW, I didn't care for Virgil before this incident primarily because of his behavior on Twitter and also because of his crappy writing. I feel exactly the same about Rick Dunkle. He, too, was a whiny baby that indulged in arguments on Twitter and then would remove his account when he couldn't take the heat from the viewers and reinstate it a few days later. While I don't know anything of the personality of Janine Sherman Barrois, I detest the scripts she's written and how she's strayed from the characters as they were conceived as well as the premise of the show. I can't stand Erica Messer because she, too, is not a good writer unless she's paired with someone more capable than herself, and I hold her responsible for ruining the show by not sticking to the premise and allowing the writers to write the characters inconsistently. She also can't keep her flippin' mouth shut and divulges too much of what should be a surprise for the viewers. And lastly, I'm really ticked off at Jim Clemente for abandoning his role, his purpose, as consultant and not only allowing all the crap that they've written over the past 5 or 6 years but also defending it. For instance 200. Yes we all believe JJ would be sought after to capture Osama Bin Laden. None of this has to do with these folks' race or how I feel about Thomas Gibson/Hotch. These are all just people that I feel had a hand in destroying a show I once loved long before this current incident occurred. I guess maybe instead of feeling sick about what happened, I should be relieved that it's the final straw to get me to quit watching. 

[zannej]

I respectfully disagree that social media interactions are an accurate portrayal of who people are. People may show a side of themselves there, or they may even put on fronts. I know someone who never mentions religion, doesn't go to church, does not act like a Christian, is violent with her own children, verbally and physically abusive with significant others, and violent with animals-- yet her Facebook page is almost nothing but re-posts about Jesus, angels, religion, etc. There are some cute kitten and puppy things thrown in, but for the most part, she presents herself as this ultra-religious nice person when she is not. Meanwhile, I know someone who is very sweet in person but she re-posts memes about how she's going to "cut a bitch" if they try to take her man. I know that is not quite the same as Twitter, but I don't think a person's character can be judged entirely by their Twitter feed. I would hate to think what people would think of me just from my twitter feed.

Some people on social media are pretty much the opposite of the way they are in real life because they can choose to present themselves a certain way to create an image and they often don't have to worry as much about repercussions (or feel they don't have to) because it is not face-to-face interaction.

Some of the responses I've seen to this have been very sad. I've seen people lash out at others for not having the same opinion. I've seen people lash out at CBS, Erica Messer, Virgil, Breen, etc and say it is a conspiracy to get rid of TG. I even saw someone say that kicking someone that is an MMA fighter doesn't count as an assault (which I liken to saying raping a porn star or prostitute doesn't count as rape).

Now, legally, even if Virgil wasn't actually threatening Thomas, it Thomas could prove that he felt threatened, it could justify the kicking. Cops often get away with shooting people because they claimed they felt threatened even when there was no threat. If TG kicked Virgil because he felt threatened (and not just out of anger) then it is possible and even likely that he told the execs that but they either didn't believe him or had an actuary weigh the risks. If Virgil wanted to pursue a lawsuit or get some sort of compensation or planned to bring in the ACLU (or if his agent/manager planned to do so) they had to think of the consequences.

Once the story was released to the public as to why TG was absent from set for two weeks, they had to do some damage control. To outsiders, it would be another case of a white man using violence against a black man. If CBS didn't take strict enough action, they could be accused of racism. Firing TG would make the public appearance that they care and are not tolerating that behavior and would basically only hurt Criminal Minds. If they didn't take strong enough action to satisfy the right people, it could wind up costing them more in advertising revenue. The accusation of racism (as with sexism) could hurt more than just CM, but CBS as a whole. It was pretty much a political and monetary decision. Sometimes, the companies don't care what the truth is, they have to worry about the public perception. They can't afford to be perceived as racist-- even though siding with a black man over a white man just because of race *is* racist. That said, we don't know what really happened.

Just because Virgil comes off as having a Napoleon Complex on Twitter doesn't mean that he's a jerk in his personal interactions with cast and crew. From the online chats with fans he is very passionate about his work and enjoys writing. He just has a problem taking criticism because he loves his writing so much. I don't know if he was trying to aggravate TG or if it was simply that he was very passionate about his side of the argument and TG may have been equally passionate. It might not even have come to name-calling or anything. It could have just been "No, we should do it this way" vs "NO! THIS way!" and TG could have just lashed out. Or, maybe TG did walk away and Virgil still wanted to be heard and TG got mad and kicked him. Or maybe TG felt Virgil was going to get violent and lashed out in defense. We don't know. Even those that were there might not have known exactly what was going through their minds.

I saw someone elsewhere saying that if Virgil followed it justified him being kicked-- but Erica Messer was apparently there. If TG really felt that something needed to be done about Virgil's attitude, he could have said something to her. He could have asked her to mediate. But he didn't-- he kicked instead.

The fact that he hasn't actually filed a lawsuit yet and is only pending suggests to me that he might not have as much evidence as he'd like to support his side. But it could also mean he's trying to gather evidence and get people to join his side.

I don't think we should try to read things in to the cast and crew's tweets unless they specifically say something about TG or Virgil. We just don't know what is going on-- and I'm fairly certain all parties involved were told to keep quiet.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.

As to conspiracy theories about Erica and CBS wanting TG gone-- if they wanted him gone they would not have renewed his contract. Manufacturing a reason to fire him 2 episodes in to the season is one of the worst ways to do things because now the writers have to scramble to make changes.

I wouldn't want to be Breen Frazier right now.