S04.E02: Evidence Of Things Not Seen

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Morland offers to use his influence to have Sherlock and Joan reinstated as consultants to the NYPD, Sherlock's mistrust of his father makes him question his motivation to help. Also, with no work offers coming in, Watson wrangles a gig with the FBI investigating a triple homicide in a top-secret research lab.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmKz_4KwbQ

[paigow]

Sherlock vs. BAU cage match? Watson vs. Weller & Jane Doe?

[Eneya]

BAU? Blindspot? Psssh, those don't stand a chacne. :)

[roseha]

Looks like CBS is pre-empting this for a Jets/Bills football game in New York?  Are other people seeing it on the schedule?  I wish they would set a time to rerun it.

[Eln5]

In NY they have football on CBS tonight but they are showing the new episode of Elementary on their sister station WLNY-TV 55. My DVR did not pick that up,of course.

[roseha]

Thanks much Eln5, I should be able to get that over TW Cable.  Of course my Tivo didn't tell me that either when I checked just now. If CBS is going to preempt a new show like this, they at least should run it late at night or over the weekend on that station so people can record it.

[Primetimer]

Watson gets face time with the elusive Morland Holmes in this week's Elementary, setting off a chain reaction of questions.

Read the story

[AimingforYoko]

Kind of a Pater ex Machina to get him back with the NYPD, but I'll take it.

Barrow! Hasn't aged a day in 115 years.

[thuganomics85]

No "familiar face" this time, but I totally figured something would go down with the woman with the crutches, so I wasn't surprised she was the killer.  Didn't predict that it would be the poor dead rat that helped solved it though.  Mr. Whiskers gets his revenge!

 

Glad it sounds like Sherlock and Watson are going back to the NYPD next week, but it was kind of fun seeing them deal with the FBI, and their method of investigation, which, of course, involved a lot of hand-holding, roadblocks, barriers, and bureaucratic bullshit. Classic FBI!

 

Loved getting Joan and Papa Holmes scenes.  Continue to think John Noble is doing a good job at not making him hammy, but giving him enough of an edge that I can never tell if he is being sincere or not.  Hope they find some way to have him meet Gregson and Bell.  Or even some of the recurring gang like Alfredo or Miss Hudson.  And, my dream: Papa Holmes faces-off against Moriarty!

[roseha]

Loved getting Joan and Papa Holmes scenes.  Continue to think John Noble is doing a good job at not making him hammy, but giving him enough of an edge that I can never tell if he is being sincere or not.  Hope they find some way to have him meet Gregson and Bell.  Or even some of the recurring gang like Alfredo or Miss Hudson.  And, my dream: Papa Holmes faces-off against Moriarty!

 

That last one they might save for the season finale maybe!  Since we are already in sweeps correct?

I sometimes don't give this show enough credit I think,  I kind of was dissatisfied last week about the way they glossed over Sherlock not being prosecuted and the why of it....well we know now.  I even forgot all about the dead rat, of course it turned out to be important.  I like the way Sherlock asked Joan how she felt about dissecting it!!

I was kind of hoping for some sort of Gregson and Bell cameo this week but I imagine they will make up for it next week.

[Zahdii]

All I can say is the white pants and teal blouse Watson was wearing when she and Sherlock first went to the lab was way too big for her.  She looked like a little girl who was wearing her mothers clothes.  And please tell me that pants with super wide legs doesn't make a widespread (pun intended) comeback.  I know some places are selling them, but I don't see them on the street yet.

[basiltherat]

Only a skinny thing like Lucy can get away with palazzo pants!

[gesundheit]

I agree with the review that the appearance (and immediate disappearance, and you know she ain't there for an under-5) of Marin Ireland telegraphed the answer to the whodunit, but it was a fun episode nonetheless. And I'm so relieved, too, as I'd been nervous that we'd start seeing even less of Bell and Gregson, but they're back in!

 

It's more than a little amusing to me that Sherlock insists his father hates him/does nothing for him and Watson is doing all that posturing with him when both of them are living for free in a jillion-dollar NYC brownstone on his dime. I know money is not love, but most rich, estranged parents are not providing free multi-million dollar housing to their middle-aged son and a friend. It's something, and frankly -- it's something they need!

[Sakura12]

I know, every time they talked about how awful Papa Holmes was, I'm like you are living in a brownstone FOR FREE! Do they know how many people would kill for that. He may be an ass hat but you have an amazing place to live. If they want nothing from him then maybe move out and go pay for their own place. 

[MaryHedwig]

So how many days has it been since Sherlock used heroin, less than a week?  Shouldn't he be in withdrawals?  Shouldn't he be struggling with cravings?

 

More important, doesn't he need a sponsor?????

 

A different note, are palazzo pants a practical choice for a girl detective?  How does she afford all those clothes?  Does Papa Holmes give her a special clothing allowance?

[possibilities]

I thought it was interesting that Watson implied that Sherlock only resents his father for "being a terrible father" and not because Sherlock has any particular judgment about his father's way of making a living involving nefarious practices. It underscores that Sherlock is particularly emotional and not at all using his brains when it comes to his Daddy Issues. And it does make him look quite like a snotty entitled brat when he whines about how daddy is out to get him; what strings has he attached to their housing arrangement? Is is so terribly wrong for a parent to put a heroin addicted child in rehab and buy him a "sober companion" and then cut off the salary of said companion after the child gets sober? While still providing housing? And is it that crazy to say that the housing is conditional on staying off heroin? And then showing up not to evict but to help him avoid legal repercussions (and get his job back) when he has a lapse in his sobriety? Honestly, that's not striking em as terrible.

 

I take it Sherlock is not complaining about his father as a provider, but he's complaining about his father as a man lacking time and affection for his off-spring. That may be valid, but it's not the persona Sherlock likes to present for himself, i.e. that he wants to be loved and appreciated and showered with attention. It's not a terrible thing to want from ones parents, especially when growing up. But Sherlock's total lack of perspective on the situation adds a layer of "petulant, arrested development" to his characterization, taking it a bit out of the typical "misunderstood genius who is sincerely different than the rest of us and isn't just acting out because he's wounded in a very usual fashion many normal folk can recognize and get over with a little effort/therapy/maturity/time."

 

Sherlock's comments about amends convinced me he genuinely has embraced the 12 step philosophy, despite that we really haven't seen him participating. Between this show and Mom, prime time CBS Thursdays is becoming the go to for that particular agenda.

[basil]

It's more than a little amusing to me that Sherlock insists his father hates him/does nothing for him and Watson is doing all that posturing with him when both of them are living for free in a jillion-dollar NYC brownstone on his dime.

 

 

 

I know, every time they talked about how awful Papa Holmes was, I'm like you are living in a brownstone FOR FREE! Do they know how many people would kill for that. He may be an ass hat but you have an amazing place to live. If they want nothing from him then maybe move out and go pay for their own place.

 

 

Yeah, they really need to dial that back, like a lot. They sound like a couple of spoiled, entitled brats. Especially Watson. I really disliked the return of bitchy, strident Watson at the end of the episode, "threatening" Papa Holmes. That was just absurd.

 

So how many days has it been since Sherlock used heroin, less than a week?  Shouldn't he be in withdrawals?  Shouldn't he be struggling with cravings? More important, doesn't he need a sponsor?????

 

 

You don't suffer from withdrawals after one dose of heroin. It takes a fair amount (and no little time) to become physically addicted. Psychological addiction is quite another, but Holmes seems suitably chastened and is going to meeting after meeting.

 

A different note, are palazzo pants a practical choice for a girl detective?  How does she afford all those clothes?  Does Papa Holmes give her a special clothing allowance?

 

 

You're perhaps forgetting that Watson was a highly paid surgeon. The one time she borrowed money from Holmes, she did so only because she didn't want to liquidate her savings...besides, there are lots of resell consignment shops and high fashion cast-offs in NYC. Watson strikes me as a savvy shopper who would know these things.

 

eta because we crossposted, possibilities:

 

Sherlock's comments about amends convinced me he genuinely has embraced the 12 step philosophy, despite that we really haven't seen him participating

 

 

Exactly. We haven't seen him participate, but we have heard him say he's on his way to meetings.

Edited November 13, 2015 by basil

[johntfs]

I loved the bit at the end where Joan is threatening Morland and being protective of Sherlock and he looks like he's a couple seconds away from patting her on the head and telling her she's adorable.

 

For my part, I consider the line that Sherlock had about Morland instigating the Falklands War.  It's interesting that Sherlock is able to do the good things he does because his father made a bunch of money doing bad things.

[Gregg247]

I didn't care for Joan being so rude to Mr. Holmes.  She'd never met this guy before, but she went in with a chip on her shoulder, based merely on what Sherlock told her about him.  Not a very good move for a detective.  Plus, Mr. Holmes seemed genuinely glad to meet her and wanted to thank her for helping save his son.  Instead, she was a jerk.

 

Mr. Holmes is an intimidating man!  I wouldn't want to cross this guy and get on his bad side.  I know the actor playing him sometimes plays silly/comical characters, but this guy is all business.  I like that.

 

I'm not sure how he's going to fit in as a regular, though.  We don't really need another smart guy on a show that already features 4 detectives.  I hope his presence on the show doesn't detract from the stories or the face time of our other 4 characters.

[basil]

I didn't care for Joan being so rude to Mr. Holmes.  She'd never met this guy before, but she went in with a chip on her shoulder, based merely on what Sherlock told her about him.  Not a very good move for a detective.  Plus, Mr. Holmes seemed genuinely glad to meet her and wanted to thank her for helping save his son.  Instead, she was a jerk.

Yes, and for no apparent reason. So she discovered he basically bribed a judge by selling one of his properties under market price (or something like that) in order to have charges against Sherlock dropped. It isn't as though she and Sherlock haven't broken the law repeatedly "for the greater good". Did she want Sherlock to go to jail? It reminds me of when Joan got all pissy to Holmes and wanted to move out, or when she was just horrible to Lestrade after he'd been mugged. It's all out of character and I don't like it a bit. Threatening Papa just makes her look stupid.

 

It's interesting that Sherlock is able to do the good things he does because his father made a bunch of money doing bad things.

 

 

Sherlock is really a chip off the old block. He has tortured and stabbed a man, attempted to frame another, blackmailed another into cooperating (the guy who shot Bell), threatened another in his jail hospital bed by saying he would leak it to other inmates that he was a rapist (or something like that. It was in Dead Man's Switch). All that and much more - very cold, calculated stuff. Papa seems like a schoolboy in comparison - though of course, we haven't really looked under those rocks yet.

[MaryHedwig]

Papa seems like a schoolboy in comparison - though of course, we haven't really looked under those rocks yet.

I have a feeling that we are playing right into the writer's hands.  We are supposed to now feel sympathy for Papa Holmes...to think Sherlock is ungrateful and Joan is protecting Sherlock for no reason. That will make the Papa Holmes story line even more shocking when we learn about Papa darker layers.  Remember olden times when we thought Moriarty was victim of kidnapping?  Remember when we thought Mycroft was just this side of stupid? Remember when we thought Kitty was wasted space?

 

I am assuming the writers known what they are doing.  If I am wrong, I will be sorely disappointed. But I think I am right, so thanks writers, it is so much delicious fun to be jerked around by you.

You're perhaps forgetting that Watson was a highly paid surgeon. The one time she borrowed money from Holmes, she did so only because she didn't want to liquidate her savings...besides, there are lots of resell consignment shops and high fashion cast-offs in NYC. Watson strikes me as a savvy shopper who would know these things.

All good points I had not thought about...plus she is probably size zero and can buy the floor model sample for next to nothing.

[johntfs]

Yes, and for no apparent reason. So she discovered he basically bribed a judge by selling one of his properties under market price (or something like that) in order to have charges against Sherlock dropped. It isn't as though she and Sherlock haven't broken the law repeatedly "for the greater good". Did she want Sherlock to go to jail? It reminds me of when Joan got all pissy to Holmes and wanted to move out, or when she was just horrible to Lestrade after he'd been mugged. It's all out of character and I don't like it a bit. Threatening Papa just makes her look stupid.

 

 

Sherlock is really a chip off the old block. He has tortured and stabbed a man, attempted to frame another, blackmailed another into cooperating (the guy who shot Bell), threatened another in his jail hospital bed by saying he would leak it to other inmates that he was a rapist (or something like that. It was in Dead Man's Switch). All that and much more - very cold, calculated stuff. Papa seems like a schoolboy in comparison - though of course, we haven't really looked under those rocks yet.

 

I remember one particular quote from Season 2:

My father is a Lovecraftian horror who uses his money to bludgeon his way to evermore obscene profits.

 

I think that Joan sees Sherlock as being vulnerable right now, especially to "an influence peddler of the highest order."  Giving someone something they want/need while being in a position to remove that something puts one in a position of power over the person to whom the something was given.  Sherlock's work is as much a treatment regimen for his overdeveloped senses and instincts as it is a vocation.  He needs it.  It makes him happy.  By being the instrument of its return Morland is now in a strong position for emotional manipulation and blackmail.  Joan knows that and has set him on notice that she'll be watching for such things.

[basil]

I even forgot all about the dead rat, of course it turned out to be important.

 

 

I thought they telegraphed that from a mile away. Pointedly showing Sherlock taking such an interest in the rat was a Checkov's gun kind of thing. I knew it had to mean something, I just didn't know what.

 

I loved the bit at the end where Joan is threatening Morland and being protective of Sherlock and he looks like he's a couple seconds away from patting her on the head and telling her she's adorable.

 

 

I misread your meaning on this the first time 'round. I agree completely, and Noble played that off beautifully. I think Joan would have deserved to be patronized like in that way, but I'm glad they didn't go there. I am sorry that they had Joan go there. She's smarter than that.

 

Giving someone something they want/need while being in a position to remove that something puts one in a position of power over the person to whom the something was given.  Sherlock's work is as much a treatment regimen for his overdeveloped senses and instincts as it is a vocation.  He needs it.  It makes him happy

 

.

 

I said this recently, that Papa would have them reinstated because he thought it was integral to Sherlock's mental health - and truly, I think that's all that it is. He may be a Machiavellian son of a bitch, but bottom line, Papa wants his son to be healthy and happy. He isn't wrong.

 

By being the instrument of its return Morland is now in a strong position for emotional manipulation and blackmail.

 

 

Here we part ways, johnfs. I believe that Papa is acting in good faith. I think he is genuine in his efforts to help Sherlock.

 

Joan knows that and has set him on notice that she'll be watching for such things.

 

 

And then she'll do what? It was a foolish and empty threat.

 

Remember olden times when we thought Moriarty was victim of kidnapping?  Remember when we thought Mycroft was just this side of stupid? Remember when we thought Kitty was wasted space?

 

 

Don't take this personally, but I never believed any of those things, and if you look back through older posts (some of which are lost to the ending of TWoP), you can see that I wasn't alone. 

 

plus she is probably size zero and can buy the floor model sample for next to nothing.

 

 

Exactly what I meant ;)

Edited November 14, 2015 by basil

[johntfs]

I misread your meaning on this the first time 'round. I agree completely, and Noble played that off beautifully. I think Joan would have deserved to be patronized like in that way, but I'm glad they didn't go there. I am sorry that they had Joan go there. She's smarter than that.

 

I said this recently, that Papa would have them reinstated because he thought it was integral to Sherlock's mental health - and truly, I think that's all that it is. He may be a Machiavellian son of a bitch, but bottom line, Papa wants his son to be healthy and happy. He isn't wrong.

 

Here we part ways, johnfs. I believe that Papa is acting in good faith. I think he is genuine in his efforts to help Sherlock.

 

And then she'll do what? It was a foolish and empty threat.

 

I think we're journeying together a little further than you think before we part ways.

 

I think you're right that Morland just wants his son to be happy and healthy.  I think the actions he's taken and the ones he plans to take are in pursuit of that outcome, a happy, healthy Sherlock.  I also believe that Joan believes that.  Her warning threat wasn't about now, but the future.

 

People are who they are and Morland Holmes is a "Machiavellian son of a bitch."  He "solves problems."  He likely sees people as assets and liabilities.  So, sure, today he wants his son happy and healthy.  Tomorrow, though, he might run into a problem that needs to be solved.  And he might recognize that one his assets is his son, who is happy and healthy due to Morland's actions.  His son who is as good at committing crimes as he is at solving them.  His son, who surely won't mind doing his father a "little favor" out of gratitude for everything his father has done for him... 

 

Joan knows all that.  She's a smart lady.  She is, after all, the one who "solved" Moriarty.  I really think that Joan would like to see Sherlock rebuild or even build a relationship with his father.  Her warning to Morland was for the sake of Sherlock and Morland.  She was letting Morland know that she won't let him manipulate Sherlock and that he shouldn't try to do so "or else."  "Or else" in this case is "or else you'll end up irretrievably destroying your relationship with the only son you have left."

Edited November 14, 2015 by johntfs

[basil]

I think we're journeying together a little further than you think before we part ways

 

 

 

You are right. We are more in agreement than we aren't, to the point that parsing it out isn't really worth it - unless you're bored ;)

 

Joan knows all that.  She's a smart lady.  She is, after all, the one who "solved" Moriarty.  I really think that Joan would like to see Sherlock rebuild or even build a relationship with his father.  Her warning to Morland was for the sake and Sherlock and Morland.  She was letting Morland know that she won't let him manipulate Sherlock and that he shouldn't try to do "or else."  "Or else" in this case is "or else you'll end up irretrievably destroying your relationship with the only son you have left [bolding mine]."

 

 

The bolded part is where you sold me.

Edited November 14, 2015 by basil

[sjohnson]

Joan always had reason to be dubious about Morland's way of dealing with his son by email. Or having flunkies give her the run around. Really, who does that?

 

Checking and finding a case for bribery of a public official really raises red flags. 

 

As for threatening Morland, Joan already had sufficient to annoy him with publicity about the bribery. Even more, how would Sherlock react to the dirty details about how the charges were dropped? Yes, Joan can't threaten his life, liberty and livelihood, but yes, she can threaten him. 

 

The SF element to the case was something Doyle did too.

[Canada]

This show really needs to stop putting Watson in such ugly clothes.  I feel like they get uglier as the seasons progress.  If this monstrosity is what we got so early in this season, she's going to look really bad by the end of the season.  Lucy Liu is hot and they managed to make her look dumpy, which is quite an accomplishment!

[theatremouse]

The house sale "coincidence" and its timing seemed altogether too easy a thing to find out though. Or maybe that was part of the point about the senior Holmes? It's not a secret that he'd do that sort of thing and therefore somehow not scandalous? Or it'll come back and bite them in the ass (not by Joan on purpose)? I don't know, but something about that scene didn't sit well with me. Transfer of property is public record. This is not something difficult to find out. It just felt too easy...

Edited November 14, 2015 by theatremouse

[johntfs]

The house sale "coincidence" and its timing seemed altogether too easy a thing to find out though. Or maybe that was part of the point about the senior Holmes? It's not a secret that he'd do that sort of thing and therefore somehow not scandalous? Or it'll come back and bite them in the ass (not by Joan on purpose)? I don't know, but something about that scene didn't sit well with me. Transfer of property is public record. This is not something difficult to find out. It just felt too easy...

 

Sure it's public record, but so what?  On the surface a rich dude sold some property to another rich dude.  To put something together you have to know that the Rich dude 2 funded the superPAC which supported the DA who was mulling whether or not to file charges against Sherlock, Morland Holmes' son.  Joan was in a fairly unique position to be in the know.  Most other people aren't.  Also, it's very likely that due to the way it was done, it wasn't even illegal.  Morland isn't directly bribing the DA.

 

The point was not to threaten Morland with exposing the indirect bribe.  The only thing that would do is land Sherlock in jail because the exposed, embarrassed DA or a replacement would feel the need to file charges to make up for the appearance of corruption.  The point was to give Morland an object lesson in Joan's ability to be clear-headed and investigate things.  Like, "I figured out this shady thing you did.  I'll figure out any other shady things you do that involve Sherlock.  So just don't do shady things that involve Sherlock."

[jhlipton]

I take it Sherlock is not complaining about his father as a provider, but he's complaining about his father as a man lacking time and affection for his off-spring. That may be valid, but it's not the persona Sherlock likes to present for himself, i.e. that he wants to be loved and appreciated and showered with attention

 

Maybe he presents himself as not needing love and appreciation and affection because he never got any as a child

[MisterGlass]

It's challenging to gauge the sincerity of Morland (great name choice for the parent of Mycroft and Sherlock) because Sherlock paints most of the pictures of him.  If we take him at his word, he set Sherlock up in New York to keep him out of the way of his own efforts.  That seems like he wanted Sherlock sober to avoid possible embarrassment rather than out of disinterested affection.  While Sherlock was in New York, Morland gave 221B, explicitly Sherlock's residence and the repository of his things in London, to Mycroft.  That makes it seem like he intended Sherlock's exile to be permanent.  When he expresses his satisfaction that Sherlock's sobriety was reinforced by the relationship with Joan and the NYPD, I can't tell if he is happy for his son or pleased that his own arrangements instigated this.  Family dealings aside, Morland makes appointments with people and fails to keep them without providing any notice.  This is at best rude and at worst a power play.  If Sherlock is correct, Morland started a war for someone's ends.  Joan can't tell whether or not his motives with Sherlock or benevolent, so I think she was warning him not to treat his son like a pawn because if he does she has the information and Sherlock has the willingness to suffer to put an end to any manipulation.

 

The posters who have commented that Sherlock's tactics are as underhanded as Morland's are right, but I think Sherlock sees his actions as furthering justice, while Morland's efforts may have more nefarious consequences.  No doubt they've clashed on this subject many times; perhaps Sherlock even tried to expose his father's actions at some point in the past and was made to see the futility of his efforts.  That could explain some of his hatred.  I think he feels a certain amount of guilt about living off the proceeds of Morland's enterprise, and that solving crimes with that financing alleviates some of the guilt.  This Sherlock is much more human than many interpretations, and I think JLM is showing the inner turmoil brought about by Morland's visit very well.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not so sure that they painted Sherlock's father as only wanting to help his son be the best he could be.

 

"When you had your troubles in London, I lost faith in you. I provided for you in New York because I wanted you out of sight and mind. Little did I know that the untended corner of the garden would grow so strong and healthy."

 

This implies to me that Sherlock was an annoyance and an embarrassment, but now his father sees his potential usefulness. He's not unhappy that Sherlock is doing well, but it's great to be able to pull out that tool if needed. Let's also not forget that he gave Joan the run around for quite a while. So much so in fact that Sherlock was able to hire a man to play his father because he knew that his real father would never show. Providing money and shelter is a good thing, but it's easy to do when you have billions. Giving of yourself is a different matter and Morland has never really done that. 

 

As to Joan's wardrobe, I wonder if they figure she'd offset the cost of the $2600 blouse she was wearing in the last scene with that $5 tie she wore in the previous episode.

[possibilities]

Maybe he presents himself as not needing love and appreciation and affection because he never got any as a child

I agree. What I find interesting is that he's able to carry on as though he is unaware that anyone might see through this, or that he himself does not have an awareness of this "need for affection/over-compensation for lacking it" being the case. I have really bought that he believes himself to be different, due to his superior intellect, and not that he's bluffing when he presents himself in that light.

[jhlipton]

I agree. What I find interesting is that he's able to carry on as though he is unaware that anyone might see through this, or that he himself does not have an awareness of this "need for affection/over-compensation for lacking it" being the case. I have really bought that he believes himself to be different, due to his superior intellect, and not that he's bluffing when he presents himself in that light.

 

He may not have been aware of the need for love and affection (he's always had attention) but I think Joan and Alfredo as well as the Captain and Bell have taught him how nice it is to receive them.  The Sherlock of Season 4, while still very aloof, is much friendlier, and even a tiny bit out=going, than the Sherlock of Season 1.

 

BTW, isn't it great that a man and a woman can share love and affection without being romantic?

[johntfs]

He may not have been aware of the need for love and affection (he's always had attention) but I think Joan and Alfredo as well as the Captain and Bell have taught him how nice it is to receive them.  The Sherlock of Season 4, while still very aloof, is much friendlier, and even a tiny bit out=going, than the Sherlock of Season 1.

 

BTW, isn't it great that a man and a woman can share love and affection without being romantic?

 

For my part I wouldn't mind if they end up in a romantic direction, but I'm also fine if they don't end up (or go) in a romantic direction.  I suppose I prefer them to continue to be non-romantic if only as a continuing "Fuck you!" to Billy Crystal's "Men and women can never be friends" speech from When Harry Met Sally.

[jhlipton]

For my part I wouldn't mind if they end up in a romantic direction, but I'm also fine if they don't end up (or go) in a romantic direction.  I suppose I prefer them to continue to be non-romantic if only as a continuing "Fuck you!" to Billy Crystal's "Men and women can never be friends" speech from When Harry Met Sally.

 

I prefer them to be non-romantic just to be different.  And I really can't see them hooking up  -- they have totally different tastes in sexual partners.

[Eneya]

In regards to Morland (I love the name, it is so British and in tune with the whole family), I confirm, I see him as someone who has realised he may have use for Sherlock and he wants him in top notch condition.

Throwing money at your child does not equal parenting. Many people would have killed for that house... well... many people might and we still see someone who grew up with those money and got fucked up because they lacked adequate parenting. Seriously, is this a real argument? He can't have issues with his father parenting 'cause he's not on the streets? Amazing... so... if you are poor and you have little to provide to your children in regards... that makes you a bad parent? Because that is the other side of the argument. Throwing money at something so it doesn't bother you is not care nor consideration for their well-being and though I think that just because you are related to someone, if that person is of age and could care for themselves, you are not necessarily obliged to care for them, throwing money instead of supporting them is something I have issues with. Either you care... or you don't, this is neither.

Agh, enough of ranting on the topic from me.

 

The episode was nice. :)

[sjohnson]

I don't think there's the slightest problem believably showing two partners in a close and supportive but non-sexual relationship. All you need do is show them as having romantic relationships with other people. The difficult part is showing two people in incredibly intimate relationships that don't, like Pete and Myka on Warehouse 13 or Fitz and Simmons on Agents of SHIELD. Holmes' sexual relationships are casual while Watson's are choosier, that's all. 

[gesundheit]

Throwing money at your child does not equal parenting. Many people would have killed for that house... well... many people might and we still see someone who grew up with those money and got fucked up because they lacked adequate parenting. Seriously, is this a real argument? He can't have issues with his father parenting 'cause he's not on the streets? 

No, this isn't a real argument and I don't think anyone was suggesting it was. But Sherlock is an adult being supported financially by his father (who is also providing housing for his unrelated friend and partner). It's hardly an act of hatred and it's a little weird that the two people who are getting this gift from him are so openly hostile, considering it's the entire reason they get to live the lives they want.

 

That's entirely separate from whether or not the dude was a good father. He clearly wasn't.

[possibilities]

I suppose it shows either confidence or recklessness to openly insult the person providing your housing. We've seen that both Sherlock and Joan say they can make a living without the NYPD, but not that they would enjoy doing so, or how much money they would make, or where they would live if they also had to find and pay for housing. Sherlock may think his father is unreliable, but he's not at all careful not to alienate him further, and Joan is also not making any effort not to offend the man. I wouldn't talk to my landlord the way they talk to Papa Holmes, even if I were very angry.

 

Joan didn't stick with her independent business, as far as I can tell. And she's usually not petulant. So I suppose we are to believe that she is just that emotionally volatile in defense of Sherlock, and Sherlock is in just that much pain that he's also acting out without fear of retaliation.

 

It might be interesting to see them evicted, and living in an overpriced studio apartment somewhere, maybe with roommates, or thin walls between them and the neighbors. The brownstone does insulate them from quite a few of NYC's "charms."

[zxy556575]

I was hoping that the rift with the NYPD would force Sherlock and Holmes to go out on their own and establish an actual detective agency, with clients and a variety of cases. I'm sure the writers could find ways to incorporate Bell and Gregson in some ancillary capacity but if not, I wouldn't miss them.

 

Joan didn't stick with her independent business, as far as I can tell.

 

Does seem like it, and too bad.

[Actionmage]

Joan didn't stick with her independent business, as far as I can tell.

 

It's only been two episodes and she referred to the basement as her office.   She could still take cases independent of her consulting with Sherlock on police cases. She was able to multitask last season between her cases, police cases with Sherlock and helping Kitty with various things/cases.

[basil]

I suppose it shows either confidence or recklessness to openly insult the person providing your housing. We've seen that both Sherlock and Joan say they can make a living without the NYPD, but not that they would enjoy doing so, or how much money they would make, or where they would live if they also had to find and pay for housing.

 

 

Haven't they repeatedly said that they are UNPAID consultants of the NYPD, or am I imagining that? We have seen them tacking on paying cases, and I suppose they get some of them through the NYPD, but I don't think the NYPD pays them anything.

[MisterGlass]

I believe you are correct on the unpaid part.  Sherlock pays Joan out of his own stipend.  When Mycroft told Sherlock, as ploy to get him to leave New York, that there father wanted him back in London and would cut him off if he didn't go, Sherlock and Joan discussed what they would have to do in order to keep going, and that included taking more paid cases and finding another residence.

 

I think Joan's patience with Morland is worn thin after all the slights-by-proxy he has given them.  Hence the "what's the hardest you've ever been hit?" from last episode.  Seeing Sherlock utterly deceived and manipulated by Moriarty is bad enough; seeing the same from his father is worse.  For that matter Mycroft tried to manipulate Sherlock too.  No wonder Sherlock's so doubting.

 

I really prefer these two as business partners and friends, not romantic partners.  I don't see it, and I'd rather preserve this.

[basil]

I think Joan's patience with Morland is worn thin after all the slights-by-proxy he has given them.  Hence the "what's the hardest you've ever been hit?" from last episode.

 

 

Now that I had no trouble with at all. That guy totally had it coming to him. He was pissy and holier than thou for no apparent reason. I doubt that Papa would have been happy to hear his employee speak in such a way about his son. For Joan to threaten the underling was understandable to me (it was also hilarious). To threaten Papa? Other than johntfs' theory (which does make a certain amount of sense to me), I don't get that.

 

That's entirely separate from whether or not the dude was a good father. He clearly wasn't.

 

 

To play devil's advocate, we only have Sherlock's word for this - and we know that Sherlock lies, and may well be an unreliable narrator.

 

Sure it's public record, but so what?  On the surface a rich dude sold some property to another rich dude.  To put something together you have to know that the Rich dude 2 funded the superPAC which supported the DA who was mulling whether or not to file charges against Sherlock, Morland Holmes' son.  Joan was in a fairly unique position to be in the know.  Most other people aren't.  Also, it's very likely that due to the way it was done, it wasn't even illegal.  Morland isn't directly bribing the DA.

 

 

Exactly. Try to prove any wrong-doing on Morland's part. How strong was the case against Sherlock to begin with? For all we know, Oscar (his name is Oscar, isn't it?) might not have even pressed charges.

 

I really prefer these two as business partners and friends, not romantic partners.  I don't see it, and I'd rather preserve this.

 

 

I'll even go a step beyond this. I think it is possible to have a romantic relationship without it being sexual. I have no trouble with a romantic relationship between the two, but a sexual one is a classic trope, and a shark jumping one. For examples of how I can see their relationship as romantic, think of the framed quote Watson gave Holmes after his first year of sobriety - or Holmes naming a new bee species after Watson. It doesn't get much more romantic than that.

[catrox14]

I enjoyed this episode but man, I just couldn't help but see John Noble channeling Walternate from Fringe here.  Drove me crazy. I'm sure I'll get over that soon enough. 

[jhlipton]

Now that I had no trouble with at all. That guy totally had it coming to him. He was pissy and holier than thou for no apparent reason. I doubt that Papa would have been happy to hear his employee speak in such a way about his son. 

 

I'll even go a step beyond this. I think it is possible to have a romantic relationship without it being sexual. I have no trouble with a romantic relationship between the two, but a sexual one is a classic trope, and a shark jumping one. For examples of how I can see their relationship as romantic, think of the framed quote Watson gave Holmes after his first year of sobriety - or Holmes naming a new bee species after Watson. It doesn't get much more romantic than that.

 

Papa Holmes had been playing snub-by-proxy for a while before Joan caught his employee.  I have absolutely no doubt he knew exactly how he would act.

 

People buy paintings and even name animals after close friends with whom they are not in the least "romantic".  Joan is the first and best friend Sherlock has had, but I personally don't think it goes deeper than that.  As always, YMMV

[Eneya]

Well... emotional reaction is a possibility, which is stupid, but realistic.

In regards to the argument, ok, sorry I kind of went overboard, it just weirded me out, because there is somewhat reasonable explanation and smart people react emotionally too... even more so, at times.

[DeLurker]

To play devil's advocate, we only have Sherlock's word for this - and we know that Sherlock lies, and may well be an unreliable narrator.

<snip>

Exactly. Try to prove any wrong-doing on Morland's part. How strong was the case against Sherlock to begin with? For all we know, Oscar (his name is Oscar, isn't it?) might not have even pressed charges.

In criminal cases it is the State vs Whoever.  A victim may decline to press charges, but that does not necessarily mean the case will go away.  In this case, since there were no witnesses other than Oscar and if Oscar was an uncooperative, things sound like they would flake apart pretty quickly.  It would seem Papa Holmes could have bought off Oscar much more cheaply than the ADA (or whoever ended up with the big house).

 

But buying off Oscar would not show how influential Morland is.  I'm going to consider him as evil as Sherlock has said (despite knowing he lies and is an unreliable narrator) simply because I find the name highly unpleasant. 

[theatremouse]

Sure it's public record, but so what?  On the surface a rich dude sold some property to another rich dude.  To put something together you have to know that the Rich dude 2 funded the superPAC which supported the DA who was mulling whether or not to file charges against Sherlock, Morland Holmes' son.  Joan was in a fairly unique position to be in the know.  Most other people aren't.  Also, it's very likely that due to the way it was done, it wasn't even illegal.  Morland isn't directly bribing the DA.

I am certainly no expert, but I was somehow under the impression that property sales for substantially less than market value (with no known major defect) are often flagged as suspicious if it's not a sale between family members. She said it sold for $3M less than market value. Even in the Hamptons, that's not chump change. I'm not saying the super PAC etc connection would be conspicuous, but I would think that because the transaction was so on the cheap it would call attention to itself, and because Sherlock theoretically should be famous-ish enough in-show-universe to at least merit a mention on local news (although perhaps not), if for example anyone had heard about him being charged in a beating, then any person in a position where it would be their job to notice said suspicious transactions, had they also heard the news, could hear Holmes and Holmes and too easily make a connection. I think that's where it hit my spidey sense as too easy.

I don't think it was done illegally, not really, just conspicuously and in a suspicious manner. Joan didn't say anything about selling the house to any kind of proxy for the DA. Just straight up the DA. Although I suppose they might play more innocently that way, since as you point out: one rich guy sold a house to another rich guy, and there are a limited number of people who can afford the price range in question. So maybe making it so conspicuous helps the "nothing to see here" argument they might try to make if called out? Yet the price and timing still strike as sketchy and too easy to find out about. I still think "DA buys vacation house in Black Friday sale and charges suddenly dropped against seller's son" still has too much air of impropriety easily inferred (even if they did cross T dot i in doing it). Things don't need to be illegal to make someone look bad and result in bad PR. And basic google and not major detective work seems to unravel that one. I'm not saying they would/should be caught by someone other than Joan who was intentionally digging. I'm just saying it wasn't done very stealthily in general, which made my ears perk and wonder why.

Edited November 17, 2015 by theatremouse