S02.E07: I Want You To Die

[Happytobehere]

He may have started out that way but I think he has become the moral compass of the show. He seems to be the only one who knows right from wrong.

He and Laurel have become my favorite characters somehow.

And did Bonnie through the DA off the roof?

The entitled, rich boy, who has never accomplished anything on his own; who sans facts or correctness was willing to cut a deal against Annalise to save his candy ass; who doesn't think his crap father should be held accountable for his racist and classist complicity in sending an innocent man to jail for life, is the moral compass of the show? I think I'd rather be lost.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Happytobehere

[vanarnd1]

Maybe this show was warped my understanding of legal consequences, but why would Asher need protecting for what happened at Trotter Lake? He had no prior knowledge that a rape would happen, and he didn't specifically cover it up. I mean it seems like the guys who actually committed the rape weren't charged or found guilty, so what exactly would the prosecutor charge Asher with?

 

I guess they didn't want to have had Asher do something terrible to make his character irredeemable, but now it just seems odd Annalise went to such great lengths to get Asher off when she probably could have defended him in court if that was needed. It seems like a plot hole that was set up to create the Annalise/Bonnie confrontation which is flimsy for a lot of reasons as people have mentioned

[morgankobi]

 

When I was initially watching the scene where Annalise says "it's him", I thought it meant Wes is her son, but then it was the "you're such a good person" response from Eve that made me think otherwise, because why would Eve say she's such a good person if she's helping out her son?

 

 

I immediately thought the "you're a good person" was Eve reassuring Anni that she was a good person even though she gave up her son for adoption. To me, it read as Eve comforting Anni because she knew exactly what Anni was thinking after coming into contact with the child she gave up.

 

Having said that, I do not think Wes is her son because that was my first thought and, on this show, I don't trust my first impressions and that includes every bit of that flash-forward!

[possibilities]

I'm going to disagree about the sexual chemistry between Eve and Annalise - and I know it's been mentioned by a few different people that it doesn't seem like they have chemistry, but for me, from the very first scene Eve showed up in, I've thought it was very obvious that they used to be lovers, even before the show made that clear.

I'm with you! I have been very surprised to see so many people, or anyone, say that Annalise and Eve lack chemistry. I think they burn the screen every time they're on it together. They play it so strong, it's palpable even when they're not talking about their personal relationship at all. This must be one of those things where you have to be one to know one, or something like that (I'm a lesbian, don't know about any other posters). I guess this is payback for all the times I've seen someone on screen that the general consensus says is superhot, and I'm like: "Really? I missed that!"

 

It's especially impressive to me because I'm still unclear about whether Annalise is sincere or just manipulating Eve (I'm calling this the Cobbler Effect, i.e. everything she does is suspect), because the chemistry is so strong, it's hard for me to believe she would need to fake it so hard if she was just faking it, and yet I never believe anything for sure is real with Annalise, so it's a puzzle. Her smiles with Eve are orders of magnitude more powerful than any smiles I've seen her show with anyone else, and her body language is completely different in every other way also.

[DeeDee79]

I'm with you! I have been very surprised to see so many people, or anyone, say that Annalise and Eve lack chemistry. I think they burn the screen every time they're on it together. They play it so strong, it's palpable even when they're not talking about their personal relationship at all. This must be one of those things where you have to be one to know one, or something like that (I'm a lesbian, don't know about any other posters). I guess this is payback for all the times I've seen someone on screen that the general consensus says is superhot, and I'm like: "Really? I missed that!"

 

It's especially impressive to me because I'm still unclear about whether Annalise is sincere or just manipulating Eve (I'm calling this the Cobbler Effect, i.e. everything she does is suspect), because the chemistry is so strong, it's hard for me to believe she would need to fake it so hard if she was just faking it, and yet I never believe anything for sure is real with Annalise, so it's a puzzle. Her smiles with Eve are orders of magnitude more powerful than any smiles I've seen her show with anyone else, and her body language is completely different in every other way also.

 

I totally agree. She seems more sincere and happy with Eve. I'm thinking that the fact that they were involved when they were young students before life hardened Annalise even more than she is now could remind her of happier times which results in the easy affection that she shows when they're together.

[Queena]

I like the Eve character but I don't find her relationship with Annalise believable. They have zero sexual chemistry, IMO.

Absolutely none! I'm not really feeling the Annaliese was/is a lesbian storyline. To quote Cookie, Viola Davis doesn't dike right.

The self righteousness of Bonnie, and Wes drive me nuts! While I would be a bit hurt about Annaliese telling my past, the fact that it saved me from a murder charge would greatly outweigh any anger or hurt that I felt.

Asher was passed out during Tiffany's rape, how is he responsible? Other than his father covering it up, which was probably more for his benefit than Asher or the actual rapist, how is it his fault? The characters on this show really need inner reflection.

Bring back Cicely Tyson, maybe she could talk some sense into everyone!

[krimimimi]

I'm going to disagree about the sexual chemistry between Eve and Annalise - and I know it's been mentioned by a few different people that it doesn't seem like they have chemistry, but for me, from the very first scene Eve showed up in, I've thought it was very obvious that they used to be lovers, even before the show made that clear. The way Eve looked at Annalise in that first scene, the comment "you still don't like surprises" and the look she gave her with the little half-smile, were all dead giveaways for me, and I think that chemistry has continued between them.

I hear what you're saying, know exactly what you're talking about, and you're not wrong... But.

No, sorry, I do have a nitpick with it, and it's that I felt the energy there all came from Eve /FJ who seemed (played it (rather convincingly, I thought)) far more infatuated with Anna than the other way around. That's something I have anti-interest in watching play out, because we need another chump like a hole in the head. No doormat please, and I would particularly dislike seeing someone who seems like a sympathetic and competent lady morph into one. I like Eve. She deserves better.

Looking at their scenes, I also haven't seen Anna being honest with her (which is fine given the story, but could also make for an interesting change if she were), except to say she's protecting someone for Sam's murder, hinting that it's Wes and saying "it's him" (although we don't know that that is true, particularly as we don't even know what it means. the cobbler effect is in full force.). So they're not providing that either.

As to her ease with Eve vs. Nate - welp during the Nate sitch, they were both cheating and his spouse was terminal. That's gotta put a damper on things, so increased relaxation or comfort with Eve (for me) doesn't directly equate to different/deeper feelings as much as different/improved circumstances. That in and of itself can make for a welcome change, but given that it doesn't resonate on a deeper level for me, and it doesn't tie into the story, I would rather not pursue a more significant relationship with Eve. (By which I mean Anna/Eve onscreen.)

But chemistry is totally subjective, and mileage varies. I think it's interesting what different folks take away from it. Given that the show has pleasantly surprised me till now, I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist whatever they do, but trust enough to see it play out. So far it's been rewarding.

[wanderingstar]

I think Famke Janssen is gorgeous, but that's just me :P

 

She's beautiful. And I think she looks better now than when she first came on the scene as a bond girl.

 

Whatever else Bonnie has done, I think she was well within her rights to be angry at Annalise for revealing her childhood abuse to Asher. I get why Annalise did it (she was desperate to keep Asher from testifying), but that was not her story to tell.

 

I'm calling this the Cobbler Effect, i.e. everything she does is suspect

 

This is so awesome, I don't know what to say. I want to invoke the Cobbler Effect in my daily life now!

Edited November 8, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Bort]

I think Famke Janssen is gorgeous, but that's just me :P

Definitely not just you. Famke Janssen is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. Back when I first saw her in an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation and still to this day.

[represent]

 

I'm calling this the Cobbler Effect, i.e. everything she does is suspect

I love it!

 

It was after the cobbler episode that I threw up my hands and decided to take this show in stride, LOL.  Just because of that cobbler, I thought to myself, if I have to question the authenticity of a dessert, then it's absolutely pointless, to send myself into a tizzy. I should just sit back, hold my breath at times, laugh some of the time like in the case of this cobbler, and Frank's fake family, and just enjoy the show.

[represent]

 

I totally agree. She seems more sincere and happy with Eve. I'm thinking that the fact that they were involved when they were young students before life hardened Annalise even more than she is now could remind her of happier times which results in the easy affection that she shows when they're together.

I agree as well. It's very sincere, which is why she's not shown to hit the bottle and end up in a drunken stupor, or roll her eyes after she leaves Eve. Nope, they made sure that she practically was skipping, merrily through her front door grinning from ear to ear after being with Eve. It's all about how she acts when no one is looking and that was real happiness.

 

Well, until Bonnie fucked up her mood. 

 

And both actresses were/are that good because I too knew right away that I was sensing something very intimate in their past "friendship" when Eve first showed up at her office.  I think it was when and more importantly how Eve or it might have been Anna said something about hurting the other, that was when I knew for sure that this wasn't just some old college roommate. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by represent

[Chicago Redshirt]

Asher was passed out during Tiffany's rape, how is he responsible? Other than his father covering it up, which was probably more for his benefit than Asher or the actual rapist, how is it his fault? The characters on this show really need inner reflection.

 

Let's not forget that taking Asher at his word that he was passed out and had no idea that his five guests were going to take her up to the room and gang-rape her may not be strictly correct.

 

But for discussion's sake, let's assume that Asher is telling the truth that he had no involvement in Tiffany's gang rape.

 

From what we have presented, instead of calling the police, he called Daddy. Daddy engaged in a cover up of his incident. That would seem to make Asher an accessory after the fact. I think it would strain disbelief to have to buy that Asher didn't know exactly what his rich-and-powerful judge daddy was going to do.

 

The entitled, rich boy, who has never accomplished anything on his own; who sans facts or correctness was willing to cut a deal against Annalise to save his candy ass; who doesn't think his crap father should be held accountable for his racist and classist complicity in sending an innocent man to jail for life, is the moral compass of the show? I think I'd rather be lost.

Love reading Asher the riot act, but the sad fact is that Asher is the only one who is  (at least as of the beginning of the season) not complicit in a murder or a coverup of a killing or anything close to that level. (ETA: I should say, his turning to his dad to cover up Trotter Lake is of course serious, but I don't think it's the same as covering up a murder.)

 

I can empathize with being raised to idolize one's father and not seeing his very real flaws. And in the end, Asher did the right thing in the cases involving his father (or at least, arguably the right thing).

 

I think Asher might be the only one of the K5 to not actually break the law or ethical standards in his helping of Anni also.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[breezy424]

Let's not forget that taking Asher at his word that he was passed out and had no idea that his five guests were going to take her up to the room and gang-rape her may not be strictly correct.

 

But for discussion's sake, let's assume that Asher is telling the truth that he had no involvement in Tiffany's gang rape.

 

From what we have presented, instead of calling the police, he called Daddy. Daddy engaged in a cover up of his incident. That would seem to make Asher an accessory after the fact. I think it would strain disbelief to have to buy that Asher didn't know exactly what his rich-and-powerful judge daddy was going to do.

 

Love reading Asher the riot act, but the sad fact is that Asher is the only one who is  (at least as of the beginning of the season) not complicit in a murder or a coverup of a killing or anything close to that level.

 

I can empathize with being raised to idolize one's father and not seeing his very real flaws. And in the end, Asher did the right thing in the cases involving his father (or at least, arguably the right thing).

 

I think Asher might be the only one of the K5 to not actually break the law or ethical standards in his helping of Anni also.

Yep. If Asher just had called the police, he might not have had a problem but instead he called daddy.  That daddy tried to cover it up caused Asher's legal problems.

[dirtypop90]

I'm with you! I have been very surprised to see so many people, or anyone, say that Annalise and Eve lack chemistry. I think they burn the screen every time they're on it together. They play it so strong, it's palpable even when they're not talking about their personal relationship at all. This must be one of those things where you have to be one to know one, or something like that (I'm a lesbian, don't know about any other posters). I guess this is payback for all the times I've seen someone on screen that the general consensus says is superhot, and I'm like: "Really? I missed that!"

 

It's especially impressive to me because I'm still unclear about whether Annalise is sincere or just manipulating Eve (I'm calling this the Cobbler Effect, i.e. everything she does is suspect), because the chemistry is so strong, it's hard for me to believe she would need to fake it so hard if she was just faking it, and yet I never believe anything for sure is real with Annalise, so it's a puzzle. Her smiles with Eve are orders of magnitude more powerful than any smiles I've seen her show with anyone else, and her body language is completely different in every other way also.

 

Also agree with you. From the first scene I could tell they were lovers. Loved the scene this ep when they were in the hotel talking about moving to europe and Annalise said she had Sam's money. lol Eve and Anna feel genuine but I just dont know if Anna is capable of being genuine with anyone.

[pennben]

I agree as well. It's very sincere, which is why she's not shown to hit the bottle and end up in a drunken stupor, or roll her eyes after she leaves Eve. Nope, they made sure that she practically was skipping, merrily through her front door grinning from ear to ear after being with Eve. It's all about how she acts when no one is looking and that was real happiness.

 

Well, until Bonnie fucked up her mood.

 

I can't believe one of my first thoughts while watching that scene was...'damn, Bonnie, couldn't this wait until morning'....we so rarely see happy Annalise.  Of course, there was a really good reason that Bonnie wanted to confront her (and attack her Vodka supply).  

[represent]

 

Eve and Anna feel genuine but I just dont know if Anna is capable of being genuine with anyone.

I definitely think she is capable of being genuine with Eve and her mother, that was definitely genuine. But with Eve, like Anna said to her the last time she visited, she told her that part of the reason she ended up breaking her heart was because she was afraid of how real it felt with Eve. I believe she did actually say it was too real. So she purposely fucked it up, and the fuck up itself wasn't real, it was out of fear. Basically, I don't think she's playing Eve, I'm just not sure Anna will ever be able to take that true love she feels for Eve, and work through her demons enough to have a healthy relationship with her. Which in the end, is sad. 

[starri]

Seriously, if the show wants me to think Eve is not Annalise's OTP, they need to have Viola cut down on the ear-to-ear grins that reach her eyes and even seem to change her posture.

[HalcyonDays]

Maybe this show was warped my understanding of legal consequences, but why would Asher need protecting for what happened at Trotter Lake? He had no prior knowledge that a rape would happen, and he didn't specifically cover it up. I mean it seems like the guys who actually committed the rape weren't charged or found guilty, so what exactly would the prosecutor charge Asher with?

 

Isn't there laws that if something like that happens on your property, you can be charged with aiding, or being complicit or something like that. Similar to those stupid laws that if someone breaks into your home, tries to rob you, threatens you but then trips on a carpet and injures themselves, they can sue YOU for not providing a safe home??

 

By allowing the party to occur and not handling the guests, resulting in the rape, then by that same law/similar law, Asher is liable?  Just speculating tbh.

 

Daddy covering up is part of the problem, but Sinclair is out for blood  - specifically Annalise's - and is doing anything and everything she can to nail AK to the wall, it seems. She has a fierce vendetta.

[krimimimi]

^^ That, plus I'd bet there was alcohol involved, and a greater than 50% chance statistically that the college kids imbibing were under age. That will definitely put the guilt question in a different light.

I don't blame him for calling his Dad first (and if he didn't, he could have rightfully expected there to be hell to pay), but suspect once Millstone Sr. got involved, things got away from Asher completely. But I'd argue there has to be some kind of understanding for a kid trusting his parent to both recognize and do the "right" thing, especially if they're a judge.

[pennben]

Isn't there laws that if something like that happens on your property, you can be charged with aiding, or being complicit or something like that. Similar to those stupid laws that if someone breaks into your home, tries to rob you, threatens you but then trips on a carpet and injures themselves, they can sue YOU for not providing a safe home??

 

By allowing the party to occur and not handling the guests, resulting in the rape, then by that same law/similar law, Asher is liable?  Just speculating tbh.

 

Daddy covering up is part of the problem, but Sinclair is out for blood  - specifically Annalise's - and is doing anything and everything she can to nail AK to the wall, it seems. She has a fierce vendetta.

 

There are a thousand and one laws (perhaps an exaggeration:)) that could be relevant here. On legal shows, I generally let it all wash over me and watch the drama for the same reason I assume doctors do that when watching a show like Grey's Anatomy. And, I guess meth dealers do so when they watch Breaking Bad:) etc...

Edited November 9, 2015 by pennben

[ciprus]

I definitely think she is capable of being genuine with Eve and her mother, that was definitely genuine. But with Eve, like Anna said to her the last time she visited, she told her that part of the reason she ended up breaking her heart was because she was afraid of how real it felt with Eve. I believe she did actually say it was too real. So she purposely fucked it up, and the fuck up itself wasn't real, it was out of fear. Basically, I don't think she's playing Eve, I'm just not sure Anna will ever be able to take that true love she feels for Eve, and work through her demons enough to have a healthy relationship with her. Which in the end, is sad.

I completely agree with this. I wasn't 100% sure she was genuine with Eve when she said that things became too real between them, and that's why she broke up with her - but after this episode I think that was probably true. I'm not sure Annalise is capable of a healthy relationship but IIRC she has been very honest with Eve in a way she has not been with anyone else. Their chemsitry is super strong to me, and multilayered.

Anyway, I thought Eve looked really moved when Annalise said "it's him". And then she said AK was a good person. What if Wes is EVE's son??

[dirtypop90]

Wes could be tied to a case Anna and eve worked on together, maybe his mother's, or he could be Sam's son. I can see eve being touched by either.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

How To Get Away With Murder Puts Beloved Geek Oliver In Danger
It's a great episode, but...not Oliver! Make it literally any other character instead!

[jbrecken]

I think maybe Annlise sold her eggs when she was a poor law student/young lawyer, and Wes is the result.

[discoprincess]

I think maybe Annlise sold her eggs when she was a poor law student/young lawyer, and Wes is the result.

Interesting speculation. Then why would she know but not Wes? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

[krimimimi]

Wasn't that storyline the death knell of Ally McBeal? But I guess that's how you pay off those law school loans.

[PrincessTT]

One of the things I love about Annalise is that she's under no illusions about herself... When Eve called her a good person she very quickly said "no I'm not". 

Contrast that with someone like Olivia Pope who still seems to walk around believing that she wears a white-hat. 

Annalise has done some very messed-up things, but I appreciate the level of self-awareness that she has.

[wanderingstar]

One of the things I love about Annalise is that she's under no illusions about herself... When Eve called her a good person she very quickly said "no I'm not".

Contrast that with someone like Olivia Pope who still seems to walk around believing that she wears a white-hat.

Annalise has done some very messed-up things, but I appreciate the level of self-awareness that she has.

I think this is the main reason I was never able to enjoy Scandal. Olivia gets awfully preachy for someone who rigged an election and regularly shelters murderers.

 

I'm enjoying reading everyone's speculation on what "It's him" means. I'm still not convinced that statement means Wes is Annalise's son.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[represent]

 

Olivia gets awfully preachy for someone who rigged an election and regularly shelters murderers.

Yeah, and the overly dramatic way she walks. Every time she does it, I'm like WTF, is this suppose to be her sexy power walk?

 

But, I think this is why I like HTGAWM, it doesn't have Shonda's usual monologues, where characters just stand there and give speeches. It doesn't even seem to happen during the COTW, because those are pretty short and sometimes we don't even get closing arguments. Whatever, I like that this show doesn't have them, because they seriously bug.

[Dancingjaneway]

How old was Annalise when her mom killed the uncle? Because if she was old enough to have her period than I wouldn't be surprised if Wes was a result of the molestation. Also this would make sense because the family wouldn't want her to keep the child it would have been a burden. Also she may have had issues having children with Sam because of complications from the first pregnancy. I could see Connor being the one to shoot Annalise because of what is going on with Oliver. He truly loves Oliver and in his mind Annalise is the cause of that. 

[aslightjump]

I'm sorry, but I was having a lot of trouble not rolling my eyes out of my head every time Bonnie came down on Asher. Yes, he did a really crappy thing that if he's lying about could turn out to be the crapola of crappiness. But you know what he hasn't done, Bonnie? Murder someone.

 

(and I realize its her past issues coming into play. Still. There were people who loved Rebecca and you took her away from them. Shut up, Bonnie.)

[l star]

She killed Rebecca because in her eyes Rebecca was a liability and a threat to Annalise and the others since she knew the truth about Sam's murder and Bonnie didn't trust her to not spill the truth. 

 

While Liza Weil killed it in that scene, I couldn't fully appreciate it because I was just so baffled by Bonnie's rage. I get that being a victim of sexual abuse is not something one wants advertised and I'm sure it's something she tries every day to forget and not be a part of who she is. That said, her determination that Annalise told Asher purely to hurt her just made no sense.

I really want Bonnie to find out that Frank actually killed Lila. Since I think 'I don't believe you' was Bonnie's main motivation, how would she react if she found out Rebecca was telling the truth?

 

I think she was so angry because Annalise treats her like she's an incompetent child at best, yet says she's doing it to protect her. Bonnie made a clear choice when she killed Rebecca and when she told Asher she killed Sam. She thought she handled it and told Annalise as much, but Annalise basically called her a moron and took things over. Then she finds out that Annalise did it by exposing the source of her self-loathing to Asher. And the worst part- Annalise lied to her about it, telling her that it was handled because Asher loved her enough. That's why she said that Annalise did it to hurt her. Annalise knew revealing that secret would never be Bonnie's choice, even if it meant jail. She did it anyway instead of trusting her to fix it or take the fall.

 

I want to know how Annalise got the video and whether Bonnie knows she has it. I agree with Bonnie- Annalise used that video like a trump card she was keeping in her back pocket and that is cold.

 

Have we ever heard Annalise say that she loves Bonnie? I don't remember it. Her reactions to Bonnie's barbs and the way she cried after Bonnie left made me believe that for once, she meant it. That was a nice antidote to my frustration from watching her toss tears and sentiments out like they mean nothing as she flips between Nate and Eve.

I think what AK did with revealing that is take away her control. Bonnie's vulnerable and it looks like her self-worth is irredeemably compromised (which is probably a big part of why she stays with Annalise and says nonsensical things like 'Sam would never have done that') but that makes it all the more important to her to not appear weak and vulnerable. Hence the cold, dismissive attitude most of the time contrasted with the violent outbursts of self loathing. To Bonnie's mind AK removed any chance of her achieving that illusion of invulnerability with Asher ever again which is what made her so mad.

I agree. Whatever Annalise did for Bonnie, her debt and gratitude have tied her so closely to Annalise that she's barely her own person anymore. She loves Annalise for saving her and she hates her for tying her to her. And now, Annalise has taken even her ability to pretend to be her own person away from her. It is a very twisted, co-dependent child/parent-like relationship.

Seeing Oliver disappeared was hell. But even seeing Michaela enthusiastically encouraging him to participate in the Keating Shenanigans, hurt me. She's supposed to be his and Connor's friend, and she didn't want to protect him.

I really, really wish I cared whether or not Oliver lives but I don't. And that has nothing to do with Oliver and everything to do with Connor. That boy's whiny sulkiness is grating on my last nerve. I agree with you about Mikayla though. Keeping her mouth shut was a chickenshit move.

Maybe this show was warped my understanding of legal consequences, but why would Asher need protecting for what happened at Trotter Lake? He had no prior knowledge that a rape would happen, and he didn't specifically cover it up. I mean it seems like the guys who actually committed the rape weren't charged or found guilty, so what exactly would the prosecutor charge Asher with?

I feel like the involvement of Judge Millstone is the answer to all these questions. If Asher knew then what he knows now I think this would all be very different. But when Trotter Lake happened, Asher still idolized and believed that his father wanted to protect him. Instead Judge Millstone needed it gone a lot more than Asher did, then and now. I'm guessing once the grand jury decided to indict, he paid Tiffany off to keep her mouth shut thus making the case go away.

 

When Laurel was going off on Annalise I really wanted Annalise to say 'I don't care if you two are screwing, just don't do it in the foyer of my home and business.' I could not believe that she was so calm about that. Then Laurel tried to make Annalise's deserved dressing down about her and Frank instead of about her knowing nothing about the case. I was on Laurel's side though when Annalise started in with her waiting for one of the men to do things for her. Whatever Laurel's issues, having to play damsel to get through is not one of them.

 

I did felt for Asher, though not exactly sympathy. The reality is that there is nothing he can do at this point to make Trotter Lake anything other than what it is. Tiffany won't care if he apologizes. Testifying won't matter now. Bonnie was right that paying Tiffany would just add insult to injury. He can't change that she was left with all the pain while he got to run back to his coddled life. He was offered an easy out and he took it. Now he's stuck with it even if he's beginning to see how awful it was. I think that's why I still like Asher. He is a douche but he was raised to be a douche surrounded by others just like him. That doesn't excuse his prejudices but I do appreciate that he is making an effort to expand his worldview. Unfortunately there is no expanded world view that can change this just like there is no way for Bonnie not to feel for Tiffany, blaming Asher. This is just not the kind of fuck up you can take back.

 

I remember Asher's moment of rage in the car with Sinclair. I think he kills her. He may have gotten off easy the first time but this time Trotter Lake is blowing up his life and he's pissed. I think he gets pissed and strikes out. Bonnie throws her off the balcony to cover it up. By the time they get to the gas station, the OMG what have I done shock and guilt has set in.

[muessigkeit]

I'm sorry, but I was having a lot of trouble not rolling my eyes out of my head every time Bonnie came down on Asher. Yes, he did a really crappy thing that if he's lying about could turn out to be the crapola of crappiness. But you know what he hasn't done, Bonnie? Murder someone.

 

(and I realize its her past issues coming into play. Still. There were people who loved Rebecca and you took her away from them. Shut up, Bonnie.)

 

I really hate how many people are apparently completely okay with letting 4 rapist get away with their crime as long as somebody else did something worse. And if were talking hypocrisy here, let's talk about the fact that Asher thought Sam's death was because Bonnie defended herself against a rapist and still wanted to turn her in to save his and his father's reputation.

 

About that scene with Annalise and Bonnie: I think that confrontation would have gone a lot differently if Annalise hadn't handled it so poorly. What she should have done was to allow Bonnie her rightful anger, apologize and call her a cap. Then they could have had a much calmer conversation the next morning. What she did instead was telling Bonnie that she didn't have a right to be angry in the first place which of course made her even angrier. "You don't get to be emotional about this." Really, Annalise? You of all people should know better; you got plenty emotional with your mother last season.

[Coxfires]

I really liked having Eve back, Famke and viola's chemistry really shines on-screen, and she might be the only one who gets anything genuine from Annalise. Well, at least, Annalise's attitude as she walked back home, all smiley (before Bonnie killed the mood) tends to make me think she is genuine, because she thought she was alone and didn't have to put up a show for anyone.

Now, I don't think Wes is Annalise's son, because of Eve's comment. If Annalise's really was Wes' mother, her covering up for him would "just" be a motherly thing to do. I agree with those thinking that Was is realted with someone Annalise knew and either wronged (and she's trying to make amends) or cared for (and thus looks after Wes). Him being her son would be cheap IMO.

Re: Bonnie's anger towards Asher. Maybe she shouldn't consider herself righteous considering what she did, but Asher needed to be told what his actions led to, plus her background explains her outburst. To me, the fact that she herself is a murder doesn't exclude that everything she told him was right.

I am in the minority, but I like Laurel, and I liked that she voiced that she was the one keeping everyone in check, plus I appreciated Annalise telling her she noticed. I just regret that her SL is so focused on Franck.

I think Oliver got reckless because of his HIV+, it really felt like he was going all "what the hell I want to enjoy my life because you never know what'll happen". Connor is going to implode (although I do miss the overconfident Connor of last year, I think the actor handles his breakdown quite well)  

[represent]

 

I really liked having Eve back, Famke and viola's chemistry really shines on-screen, and she might be the only one who gets anything genuine from Annalise. Well, at least, Annalise's attitude as she walked back home, all smiley (before Bonnie killed the mood) tends to make me think she is genuine, because she thought she was alone and didn't have to put up a show for anyone.

I agree. This is exactly what I was saying as to why I believe it's genuine.

[aslightjump]

I really hate how many people are apparently completely okay with letting 4 rapist get away with their crime as long as somebody else did something worse. And if were talking hypocrisy here, let's talk about the fact that Asher thought Sam's death was because Bonnie defended herself against a rapist and still wanted to turn her in to save his and his father's reputation.

 

About that scene with Annalise and Bonnie: I think that confrontation would have gone a lot differently if Annalise hadn't handled it so poorly. What she should have done was to allow Bonnie her rightful anger, apologize and call her a cap. Then they could have had a much calmer conversation the next morning. What she did instead was telling Bonnie that she didn't have a right to be angry in the first place which of course made her even angrier. "You don't get to be emotional about this." Really, Annalise? You of all people should know better; you got plenty emotional with your mother last season.

Nowhere did I say I was okay with letting the rapists get away with what happened, at freaking all, nor I have I seen people be okay with it on here. Asher did a bad thing - if my word 'crappy' was what bugged then I'm sorry, I should have used a better word. Asher did an awful thing and potentially did a whole lot worse if its lying, and its not okay. And if Bonnie can help Asher see how fucked up what he did was, that's great. Asher's not in the right here, but I don't really think the murderer is either. And perhaps I'm confusing things here, but Asher wanted to turn Bonnie in for the reasons you listed and also because its still murder. I honestly can't remember, if someone could enlighten me I'd much appreciate it, but couldn't Bonnie get away with self-defense if that had been true, or would the covering up bit ruin that.

 

And now that I've given it some time, I'm more sympathetic to Bonnie, immensely. I'd like to say that she should be rational and realize she has people covering for her just like Asher had his dad covering for him and how much she'd like to protect them like Asher wants to protect his father (and perhaps this makes me a bad person, but I'd protect my dad through almost everything as well), but that wouldn't be very fair. Asher's not wrong that this is her thing. She's a human being, she doesn't have to rational about it. It still doesn't mean that as a viewer with all the facts, her self-righteousness doesn't bug. It might have been LW's delivery. She's incredible but she went very Paris there.

 

As for the Annalise/Bonnie confrontation, I was on Bonnie's side emotionally at least. Annalise took the complete wrong tact and if I'm not mistaken, didn't really apologize (I watched this very late at night). Less confrontational, defensive words would have helped Bonnie understand more, but she put it all on Bonnie. Yeah, probably, Bonnie didn't have to murder Rebecca and she didn't have to tell Asher she murdered Sam. And yeah, you did what you did to save her. It was still kinda awful, Annalise. Annalise/Bonnie have a weird chicken and the egg situation to me where I don't know if Bonnie acts like a child because Annalise treats her like one or Annalise treats her like a child because Bonnie acts like one.

 

I swear I alter my views a little every time I come here. Y'all are so much better with character motivations and development than I am. ETA: I see now in my post above I was pretty dismissive of what Asher did. Wasn't my intent. Thought it was pretty much the worst.

Edited November 10, 2015 by aslightjump

[jhlipton]

I'm with you! I have been very surprised to see so many people, or anyone, say that Annalise and Eve lack chemistry. I think they burn the screen every time they're on it together. They play it so strong, it's palpable even when they're not talking about their personal relationship at all. This must be one of those things where you have to be one to know one, or something like that (I'm a lesbian, don't know about any other posters). 

 

I'm not a lesbian (right gender-appreciation, wrong equipment) but I think Anna and Eve have GREAT chemistry.  When they were sitting in the car talking about Paris, a voice in my head was screaming "Do it!"  It felt natural and very real.  And Anna's JBF (don't ask if you're offended by language) look was for nobody's notice -- she was definitely on a sex-fueled high.

 

Re Asher -- I think he made a stupid mistake in calling his dad, but that's what Anna always advises: call your lawyer before you call the police.  Judge Millstone put Asher in a no-win situation -- there's nothing he can do that won't make Tiffany's life even worse.  And unlike pretty much everyone else, he's really torn up about it.

 

The Trotter Lake incident sheds even more light on his first night with Bonnie.  He screwed up big time with alcohol at Trotter Lake -- he wanted to make sure Bonnie was fully consensual before he started anything.  So, again unlike most of the others, he's learned from his mistake and won't repeat anything like it.

[theatremouse]

Since folks were calling Wes as a secret son from day one of the first season, I hope that is not the reveal they're heading for because it's way way way too predictable. Still, based on the giant screaming incest theme of this whole season, I'm assuming until they tell me otherwise "it's him" means he's her son and her brother. (Wasn't the abuse her father? Not her uncle?)

Forget it, Wes. It's Chinatown.

Edited November 18, 2015 by theatremouse

[secnarf]

Since folks were calling Wes as a secret son from day one of the first season, I hope that is not the reveal they're heading for because it's way way way too predictable. Still, based on the giant screaming incest theme of this whole season, I'm assuming until they tell me otherwise "it's him" means he's her son and her brother. (Wasn't the abuse her father? Not her uncle?)

Forget it, Wes. It's Chinatown.

No, it was "Uncle Clyde".

[theatremouse]

Still calling incest if he is her son. Although at this point it's so telegraphed to death, he almost has to not be.

Edited November 19, 2015 by theatremouse