S06.E04: Here's Not Here

[ghoulina]

Also, what kind of prisoner tells the person holding him captive that he's going to kill everyone including children if you set him free. Wouldn't it make more sense to agree with whatever your captor says in order to get the hell out of there?

 

Sure it would. But the Wolves aren't about sense. They give zero fucks. They are straight up psychopaths, which is why Morgan needs to quit trying to "redirect" them. This isn't pre-school. Take their fucking heads off. 

 

Honestly, I was waiting for Morgan to find out that "Eastman" was actually Clayton Dallas Whoever. That's he'd die, Morgan would get his wallet (don't ask why he'd be carrying it) and the name would be the serial killer's. Alas no.

 

I was waiting to find out that Clayton Dallas Whoever was let go, because "all life is precious" and then started the Wolves. 

[Save Yourself]

 

The timeline at the end is a bit confusing.  If that was Rick yelling to open the gate, why is Morgan still there?  Last we saw in the 2nd episode Morgan was walking away from Alexandria long before Rick could return.

 

Morgan was still in Alexandria inside the gates when we last saw him, he passed Carol and then walked a bit down the street. I did think he was probably going to rack off (and was hoping!) but he must have wanted to stay with his pet Wolf.

[candall]

  Only for Eastman to get bit by a walker of one of Morgan's former victims [...]

Oh.  Thanks.  I had missed this fun fact.  Was it throat branch guy or strangle guy or one of the doomed hippie couple?

 

I, too, expected Eastman to be Creighton--it would have added some extra dialogue to the "live to kill/kill to live//kill everyone/don't kill anyone" conversation this show is so determined we have.  And which frankly seems so stupid as to be insulting to the audience, under the circumstances.

 

The identical moral dilemma was addressed way back with Randall at Chez Herschel, back when the protagonists had an enormous advantage.

[nachomama]

I will admit to learning one thing from tonight's episode though.  Seeing the walker with the mutilated lips and lower face;  I'm thinking its probably not a good idea to try and french kiss a walker, it can't possibly ever end well for you.

you're getting that desparate?

 

I figured Eastman would be killed since Morgan is no longer with him, but when I first saw the rabbit's foot, I have to admit I got a little sad. Speaking of that scene at the church, did he also set-down the bullet from the couple when he sat down the other stuff?

Yeah he had a goo goo cluster and the rabbits foot and the bullet. 

 

I would appreciate the episode more if it wasn't just stall tactics to make us itchy about Glenn's fate. And I will hold on to my fanwank as long as humanly possible that it was Rick (or somebody but sounded kinda like Rick) hollering "open the gate" and he's carrying Glenn and errbody is saved.

 

I get that Morgan needed to come back from killing anyone/anything, the innocent people. But he needs to find that middle ground where you recognize the crazy that isn't coming back. Yes Eastman should and could have killed him for his actions in the beginning but 3 chances with the wolves he needs to put that one down and move ahead. 

[Rosiejuliemom]

My first exposure to him was on The Drew Carey Show, where he played Drew's cross-dressing brother. He was a nice guy there :)

 

I figured Eastman would be killed since Morgan is no longer with him, but when I first saw the rabbit's foot, I have to admit I got a little sad. Speaking of that scene at the church, did he also set-down the bullet from the couple when he sat down the other stuff?

 

As someone else mentioned, yeah, the bullet and Goo Goo Cluster were both there. I tried to find a picture of the map that included them, but couldn't.

 

I understand, I'm just a pedantic nitpicker :). I also think you're right, the show has been interjecting those types of eps - often for minor characters of dubious popularity - the past few years and it breaks the narrative flow of the season every time. I'm conflicted about it because I often like the individual episodes themselves, but the placement in the season arc wrecks the pacing. It can also be exhausting to focus solely on one character for the entire ep, especially if it's someone you aren't fond of or are neutral on to begin with. I love Morgan, and I loved this ep, but the placement in the season ground the pacing to a halt and the lack of any of the regulars makes it a hard sell to non Morgan fans. I'm pretty sure this was a second unit ep, too, so it was likely filmed at the same time as one of the earlier eps - I would guess the season opener, given the length of both. It probably would have worked better as a one-off right before the season opener or later in the season, after Morgan has hopefully come to his senses.

 

Lennie said this ep was filmed as ep. 8, I believe. He had filmed 1-7 without having seen the script for this one.

[ghoulina]

Mine does that at times, as well, mainly depending on where it is in the living room. It's annoying when the prices keep going up, and you record a twisted mess that freezes the DVR up! And of course, when you're looking forward to something, and it misses half the episode (or chooses not to record it at all).

 

I don't know what the hell happened, because it didn't record Talking Dead or the encore presentation of TWD. All I have on my DVR is a black screen that won't FF. Incredibly frustrating. But all our other shows last night recorded. So I'm not sure why nothing on AMC did. But now I'm really pissed, because I still don't know what happened in the first 30 minutes (anyone wanna sum up why Morgan left his crazy little town and how he ran into Eastman?) and now if I ever AM able to record another showing, it might not be in order. I know, I know...first world problems. But I am hella OCD about my DVR recordings. 

 

I may have not seen it correctly, but didn't Morgan lock the Wolf inside the house and then lock the gate outside?  Is he maybe planning to starve him to death a'la Eastman and his serial killer?

 

I felt like Morgan wanted to do with the Wolf what Eastmen did with him - leave him a cell, but the door was always open. But at the last minute some remnant of sanity must have appeared, and he realized that wouldn't be wise. 

[Save Yourself]

 

I was waiting to find out that Clayton Dallas Whoever was let go, because "all life is precious" and then started the Wolves. 

 

Now that would have been a nice little twist!

[editorgrrl]

Oh. Thanks. I had missed this fun fact. Was it throat branch guy or strangle guy or one of the doomed hippie couple?

Eastman was bitten by strangle guy. Yet again, somebody else pays for Morgan's mistake.

[lulee]

I get that Morgan needed to come back from killing anyone/anything, the innocent people. But he needs to find that middle ground where you recognize the crazy that isn't coming back.

He needs to find a degree of opacity between "clear" and cloudy.

[chlban]

Is it over yet? I actually fell asleep which has never happened during this show. Woke up in time to see Morgan's final idiot move leaving another of the wolves alive. Does he ever learn? Thanks Morgan for saving Rick way back when. Now go away.

[bosawks]

I turned it off after 20 minutes,  I'll catch up on it when I get home tonight.

 

I had all the inarticulate rage and hostility I could handle watching the Real Housewives reunion.  I needed a break.

[Save Yourself]

I don't know what the hell happened, because it didn't record Talking Dead or the encore presentation of TWD. All I have on my DVR is a black screen that won't FF. Incredibly frustrating. But all our other shows last night recorded. So I'm not sure why nothing on AMC did. But now I'm really pissed, because I still don't know what happened in the first 30 minutes (anyone wanna sum up why Morgan left his crazy little town and how he ran into Eastman?) and now if I ever AM able to record another showing, it might not be in order. I know, I know...first world problems. But I am hella OCD about my DVR recordings. 

 

 

 

 

I felt like Morgan wanted to do with the Wolf what Eastmen did with him - leave him a cell, but the door was always open. But at the last minute some remnant of sanity must have appeared, and he realized that wouldn't be wise. 

 

They didn't show Morgan leaving his fortress, the show started with him boring his pet Wolf to death by saying something along the lines of 'you wanted everything I have, here it is' (the line that the Wolf said to him in ep 1). It then flicked to Morgan in his Boba Fett hat racing around killing walkers, setting a fire made of walkers, killing walkers that were drawn by the fire then killing a flaming walker. He heard a goat bleating and crept up to the cabin to take Tabitha then Eastman told him to get away from her, put gun down, etc - if he'd like Morgan can come in for a felafel. Morgan shot at him, Eastman took him out like a Ninja Turtle then put him in the cell with some food.

 

Forgot to add - before he tried to get Tabitha he killed 2 men - seemed to be a father and son - he stabbed the older one in the throat and the younger he strangled with his bare hands. This double murder was unprovoked. The one he strangled is the one who bit Eastman. 

 

 

I agree with your last sentence - I thought he'd leave it open but for once did the 'right' thing and locked it. Although obviously the REAL right thing would have been to kill that Wolf dead!

 

EDIT: added details

Edited November 2, 2015 by Save Yourself

[chlban]

Not a Lennie fan, so I wasn't excited to spend 90 minutes watching him. I do like Lynch but this ep was too predictable.

I kept wondering why he didn't commit suicide. Did the writers ignore that obvious question or are we supposed to know why Morgan can't kill himself?

This. Also wonder why the Zen master didn't ask Morgan that question.

[truelovekiss]

I'm not a member of the "Lennie James walks on water" club, so this episode was extremely "meh" for me. I wasn't dying to know what Morgan had been up to all the while our main group was fleeing the prison, being held captive at Terminus, etc. And his tale, such as it was, certainly didn't require 90 minutes.

Save me a seat at the next club meeting, because I've never been too impressed with Lennie James either. He's a fine actor and all, but I've never been especially moved by any of his scenes. In fact, I've kind of disliked Morgan from the beginning. I pity him, because he's the kind of man that wasn't built for this world. But after 2ish years in the apocalypse, he hasn't figured out the difference between self defense, being a mass murderer and being a little bitch that lets innocent people get killed.

Michael Rooker is a great actor. Merle was a horrible person, but I loved watching him because Rooker brought so much depth. Everyone hated Lori, but especially towards the end, Sarah Wayne Callies was able to make her a sympathetic character.

Edited November 2, 2015 by truelovekiss

[mandolin]

They did show Morgan in his Clear apartment again at the first part of "THEN." There was a lamp, and then it was on its side, burning. I assume the whole place went up.

 

This episode was no "Clear." Meh.

[AndySmith]

Lennie said this ep was filmed as ep. 8, I believe.

 

Maybe it would have worked better had it aired as episode 8?

 

Save me a seat at the next club meeting, because I've never been too impressed with Lennie James either

 

I'll bring the refreshments!

Edited November 2, 2015 by AndySmith

[chlban]

I don't think so, WD has been renewed for a 7th season.

phew, I was worried. Said no one ever about the highest rated show on TV.

[lulee]

Maybe it would have worked better had it aired as episode 8?

But then they would probably had to have scrapped the oh-so-compelling framing device of Morgan's lecture to the grey-toothed Wolfman.

[RainOnToosdays]

My first exposure to him was on The Drew Carey Show, where he played Drew's cross-dressing brother. He was a nice guy there :)

 

He played Norm Gunderson in Fargo. He was Marge's husband who was hoping to get a stamp design approved by the USPS.  He got the 2 cent stamp.

Ahhh! He looked familiar but he has such a generic look I didn't spend any time trying to figure out where I might have seen him before, as it could have been in anything. 

 

I too thought the twist would be that the Cheesemaker (did we ever get his real name?) would turn out to be that Clayton Wallace Whoever, though I'm not sure what plot-point that would have served. Although having a psychotic killer do a 360 and decide all life is precious and take on a new nice-guy persona would actually have made more sense to me then the story we were given. It would have given support to the idea that there is hope for even the worst among us, even the wolf at the end, and thus don't kill anyone. 

 

I somehow missed all the turtle references (except for of course Enid eating the one). Is this supposed to be symbolic? If anyone has retreated into a hard shell to survive, it's Carol. Soft on the inside, hard on the outside. 

 

Was not a fan of all the here's not here stuff or of the episode itself. It should have been titled Redirect. The redirect of Morgan's character, and of the show itself, going from the first heart-pounding episodes .. to this. 

[chlban]

See... we're just supposed to figure out that Morgan went back to NY and wrote the Coke commercial about liking to hear the world to sing...

Now that is funny.....

[candall]

A "glimpse of Glenn" would have been genius, BadExample!

 

Viewers would have been mollified and more willing to tolerate the slower pace of The Morgan Story.  The question of how Glenn managed to escape and whether he was chomped would have been enough to keep the anticipation level up. 

 

I'm still part of Team Zed's Dead, Baby, but I think I have to start hedging my bets--that would be so ridiculously anticlimactic after all the tap dancing that's going on.

Edited November 2, 2015 by candall

[Save Yourself]

 

As another poster said, yes, according to my captioning.  Which was yet another thing that irked me last night.  I wouldn't mind guessing at it being Rick, but I don't like being told.  

 

 

That's a good point! We now know that Rick escaped the RV intact. I assumed he would but it's strange for them to give it away like this - especially when they are stringing the Glenn thing out.

[truelovekiss]

I'm so over Morgan. I swear, his "all life is precious" spiel took me right back to Catholic school. Hopefully Alexandria doesn't have a Planned Parenthood, or Morgan would protest outside of it all day.

I did think it was interesting how on talking dead, they said Morgan had this all or nothing mentality, like an addict.

Mostly I'm just so damn sick of the sanctimonious attitude, and superiority that he has because he thinks he's just a better man. For as many innocent people as he's killed, he's caused the deaths of many innocent people by NOT killing. For God's sake, even Fr Gabriel is coming around.

[Nostariel]

Lennie said this ep was filmed as ep. 8, I believe. He had filmed 1-7 without having seen the script for this one.

Well, there go my TV detective skills, haha. If they filmed it so much later, moving it up seems even more like a manipulative move to keep viewers speculating about Glenn's death and Rick's fate. Not cool, dudes.

[CletusMusashi]

I liked Dr. Cheeseman until he moronically went into biting range and presented his back to a zombie, instead of just poking it in the head with his five foot killing stick.

 

Tabitha's head and neck appeared strangely bloodless. Did the Walker get down on its hands and knees because it figured the middle part would taste better? Since when are they that choosy?

 

Morgan, you suck. If you were seriously about "clearing," you would know to destroy the brain after killing people. And also? If you can't take care of a goat, you are not ready for a pet wolf. Try a gerbil or something.

 

Tune in next week, when Morgan leaves Father Pee Pants in charge of his prisoner.

 

And, most importantly of all, I wish people would stop comparing this bloated chunk of nonsense to "Slabtown." "Slabtown" was hilarious! It had lollicops and everything!

[okerry]

Why, WHY'D they kill Tabitha. Stop killing the animals, show! First the horses, then some GSD's, then the goat. Poor baby.

 

As a side note - since The Show constantly makes a point of showing us dead animals that do NOT turn, even when killed by walkers - I wonder if it's telegraphing that maybe the cure lies with animals, since they seem to be immune/unaffected by the Walker Virus? Just a thought. Eugene? Anyone?

[editorgrrl]

Tune in next week, when Morgan leaves Father Pee Pants in charge of his prisoner.

Morgan didn't put any sort of sign on the door, so anyone (including Gabriel) might be in for a nasty surprise. Gabriel has two guns—but can he use them?

[Pestilentia]

Love, love, love these lower key character driven episodes. It makes a really nice break from all the running and sweating and stabbing. That they brought in John Carroll Lynch to play the cheesemaker delighted me no end. Tabitha/Ruby was a real find as well.

[ghoulina]

They didn't show Morgan leaving his fortress, the show started with him boring his pet Wolf to death by saying something along the lines of 'you wanted everything I have, here it is' (the line that the Wolf said to him in ep 1). It then flicked to Morgan in his Boba Fett hat racing around killing walkers, setting a fire made of walkers, killing walkers that were drawn by the fire then killing a flaming walker. He heard a goat bleating and crept up to the cabin to take Tabitha then Eastman told him to get away from her, put gun down, etc - if he'd like Morgan can come in for a felafel. Morgan shot at him, Eastman took him out like a Ninja Turtle then put him in the cell with some food.

Forgot to add - before he tried to get Tabitha he killed 2 men - seemed to be a father and son - he stabbed the older one in the throat and the younger he strangled with his bare hands. This double murder was unprovoked. The one he strangled is the one who bit Eastman.

 

Thank you, Save Yourself! Now on to calling Direct TV, to make sure this doesn't happen again. 

 

Tune in next week, when Morgan leaves Father Pee Pants in charge of his prisoner.

 

One can only hope. I'd take the risk of that Wolf being back on the loose if it meant the end of FPP. Surely Carl or Carol would come along in two seconds and finish the job Morgan couldn't. 

[CletusMusashi]

As a side note - since The Show constantly makes a point of showing us dead animals that do NOT turn, even when killed by walkers - I wonder if it's telegraphing that maybe the cure lies with animals, since they seem to be immune/unaffected by the Walker Virus? Just a thought. Eugene? Anyone?

Yeah, but if they gave a goat to Eugene, I think we all know what kind of "experimenting" he'd do.

Especially with a sexy little number like Tabitha.

Edited November 3, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Save Yourself]

They did show Morgan in his Clear apartment again at the first part of "THEN." There was a lamp, and then it was on its side, burning. I assume the whole place went up.

 

This episode was no "Clear." Meh.

 

*hanging my head in shame* - usually I'm good at remembering details in TWD, apparently my brain has decided to erase this ep though! Just had another look and he was having a crazy rant at a shitload of FIRE that I didn't even recall 2 hours later lol.

I'm so over Morgan. I swear, his "all life is precious" spiel took me right back to Catholic school. Hopefully Alexandria doesn't have a Planned Parenthood, or Morgan would protest outside of it all day.

 

 

OMG, I laughed so hard at that! Awesome.

[Primetimer]

A cliffhanger is put on hold for a lengthy flashback explaining Morgan's radical philosophical shift.

Read the story

[Save Yourself]

 

Tabitha's head and neck appeared strangely bloodless. Did the Walker get down on its hands and knees because it figured the middle part would taste better? Since when are they that choosy?

 

Morgan, you suck. If you were seriously about "clearing," you would know to destroy the brain after killing people. And also? If you can't take care of a goat, you are not ready for a pet wolf. Try a gerbil or something.

 

 

 

Hahaha, yes, that walker is a gourmand. It probably took a picture of the meal first to put it on Instagram.

 

OMG, so so funny! Exactly, start with the herbivores - carnivores are too unpredictable.

[Save Yourself]

As a side note - since The Show constantly makes a point of showing us dead animals that do NOT turn, even when killed by walkers - I wonder if it's telegraphing that maybe the cure lies with animals, since they seem to be immune/unaffected by the Walker Virus? Just a thought. Eugene? Anyone?

 

I haven't really seen it as them 'constantly makes a point...' as we actually haven't seen that many animals when you think about how many there must have been in that area. The majority of the animals we've seen have been eaten by either people or walkers so there's nothing left of them to turn even if they did have the virus (which I know we've been told they don't). I also don't think we'll ever get a cure, I can't see the show heading in that direction. It wouldn't make sense to do so anyway, there are no resources left (human or technological) to research what the virus is and then develop a cure.

[diebartdie]

Rick killed that guy who escaped from Sasha. The guy was cuffed and running away. Rick literally ran him down, got out of the car and killed him. If that wasn't cold blooded murder I'm not sure what is.

Yes, Rick murdered the shit out of that guy because if that guy had made it back to his people, Rick's shitty plan would have been even worse. Rick and his people were at war and handcuffed guy went from being a prisoner of war to an escaped soldier who had to die. On the other hand, Morgan was clearly psychotic, wandering the woods, mercying walkers when two raggedy survivors saw him. I thought it was obvious those guys saw Morgan as potentially an easy mark, they were going to attack him and take whatever they found. They were survivors, just like Morgan. Morgan was not at war with them, they were not at war with Morgan. Morgan flat out murdered them (insanity defense might work for him though).

 

The two situations are not at all the same or even similar. Rick has murdered many people (the two assholes in Herschel's bar, the running handcuffed guy, termites, porchdick) but all these situations could rightly be viewed through the prism of war. Morgan's actions, at least what we saw last night, can not be viewed that way.

 

I thought the episode was a paean to the power of psychotherapy but the message ultimately fails in the context of the show. Saving one wolf could be possible if every precaution was taken but hardly any were. The fellow was tied up BUT he still had his shoes on, still had all his clothes on, he was in a big, unfinished house free to wander around, free to bust out a window and get a nice, sharp piece of glass to go kill with, free to just walk out the window he just broke and kill kill kill.

 

Morgan, if "all life is precious" then the wolf's life is equal to Judith's life BUT Judith needs defenders, the wolf needs to be locked up tight. IDK, beautiful philosophy and one that would be pretty easy to live by if you were not in the ZA. ZA means new rules, new philosophies,new everything. Go back up the mountain Morgan, return to us when you have a workable philosophy for the world as it is, not how you wish it was.

 

EDIT TO ADD goats are not chickens. Chickens do not need roosters to produce eggs. Goats need to sexually reproduce to have babies which cause milk production. Also, Ive made cheese myself, it's not hard, I was successful in making paneer cheese my first try, took most of a day.

Edited November 2, 2015 by diebartdie

[truelovekiss]

Tune in next week, when Morgan leaves Father Pee Pants in charge of his prisoner.

And, most importantly of all, I wish people would stop comparing this bloated chunk of nonsense to "Slabtown." "Slabtown" was hilarious! It had lollicops and everything!

I too prefer Slabtown to this goat shit episode.

And I can totally see Morgan trusting Father Bitch to babysit the wolf, because he also has a "moral compass" like our noble hero Morgan. Then it develops into a Gabe moral dilemma storyline where we find out if he's loyal Rick and Co.

[RustbeltWriter]

I thoiught this was a great episode and I really don't care about the cliffhanger with Glenn. The show is going to play that out for multiple episodes because that story needs time to play out. They need to realize he's missing, deal with the herd and then go looking for him. No way do the writers show anything from Glenn's perspective. They'll tease this out from Maggie's point of view.

 

As for this episode, it's nice to see they can give a character like Morgan 90 minutes to grow from a very damaged person to someone who is embracing a new philosophy. I don't even care that his philososphy is unpopular. We need different points of view for this show to be interesting. We've got enough characters who will kill for almost any reason. Having an unpopular philosophy does not make it incorrect. There are only so many people left in this world. If Morgan wants to take on the responsibility of saving others and redirecting them that's on him. I know this Morgan wouldn't have left orange backpack guy to fend for himself on the side of the road like Rick and Michonne did. 

 

The show needs a character who represents hope. If the remaining humans are going to be depicted as nothing more than brutes who one up each other with their violence and need to subjugate each other then what's the point of watching?

Edited November 2, 2015 by RustbeltWriter

[Save Yourself]

Yes, Rick murdered the shit out of that guy because if that guy had made it back to his people, Rick's shitty plan would have been even worse. Rick and his people were at war and handcuffed guy went from being a prisoner of war to an escaped soldier who had to die. On the other hand, Morgan was clearly psychotic, wandering the woods, mercying walkers when two raggedy survivors saw him. I thought it was obvious those guys saw Morgan as potentially an easy mark, they were going to attack him and take whatever they found. They were survivors, just like Morgan. Morgan was not at war with them, they were not at war with Morgan. Morgan flat out murdered them (insanity defense might work for him though).

 

The two situations are not at all the same or even similar. Rick has murdered many people (the two assholes in Herschel's bar, the running handcuffed guy, termites, porchdick) but all these situations could rightly be viewed through the prism of war. Morgan's actions, at least what we saw last night, can not be viewed that way.

 

I thought the episode was a paean to the power of psychotherapy but the message ultimately fails in the context of the show. Saving one wolf could be possible if every precaution was taken but hardly any were. The fellow was tied up BUT he still had his shoes on, still had all his clothes on, he was in a big, unfinished house free to wander around, free to bust out a window and get a nice, sharp piece of glass to go kill with, free to just walk out the window he just broke and kill kill kill.

 

Morgan, if "all life is precious" then the wolf's life is equal to Judith's life BUT Judith needs defenders, the wolf needs to be locked up tight. IDK, beautiful philosophy and one that would be pretty easy to live by if you were not in the ZA. ZA means new rules, new philosophies,new everything. Go back up the mountain Morgan, return to us when you have a workable philosophy for the world as it is, not how you wish it was.

 

EDIT TO ADD goats are not chickens. Chickens do not need roosters to produce eggs. Goats need to sexually reproduce to have babies which cause milk production. Also, Ive made cheese myself, it's not hard, I was successful in making paneer cheese my first try, took most of a day.

 

 

My exact thoughts re Rick and his 'war' murders vs Morgan and his 'clear' murders. 

 

And yes about the goat! When Eastman kept going on about not killing living things I was wondering where the buck and kid were?! Cause she's not producing any milk without those. 

[truelovekiss]

One can only hope. I'd take the risk of that Wolf being back on the loose if it meant the end of FPP. Surely Carl or Carol would come along in two seconds and finish the job Morgan couldn't.

Hell, I think we've got a better shot at Eugene doing it than Morgan.

[chabelisaywow]

 

My first exposure to him was on The Drew Carey Show, where he played Drew's cross-dressing brother. He was a nice guy there :)

 

I recognized him from that role as well and I also thought to myself - that character had more balls than Eastman.

 

Sorry - this is the TWD, if I want to watch a show about feelings and all life being precious, I can watch Grey's Anatomy. It's kill or be killed. Come on now!

[riverheightsnancy]

I thoiught this was a great episode and I really don't care about the cliffhanger with Glenn. The show is going to play that out for multiple episodes because that story needs time to play out. They need to realize he's missing, deal with the herd and then go looking for him. No way do the writers show anything from Glenn's perspective. They'll tease this out from Maggie's point of view.

 

As for this episode, it's nice to see they can give a character like Morgan 90 minutes to grow from a very damaged person to someone who is embracing a new philosophy. I don't even care that his philososphy is unpopular. We need different points of view for this show to be interesting. We've got enough characters who will kill for almost any reason. Having an unpopular philosophy does not make it incorrect. There are only so many people left in this world. If Morgan wants to take on the responsibility of saving others and redirecting them that's on him. I know this Morgan wouldn't have left orange backpack guy to fend for himself on the side of the road like Rick and Michonne did. 

 

The show needs a character who represents hope. If the remaining humans are going to be depicted as nothing more than brutes who one up each other with their violence and need to subjugate each other then what's the point of watching?

You bring up some excellent points. Some of the people in ASZ are not that far removed from the wolves. Some might actually be wolves in sheep's clothing, we just see their point of view differently, because we know their backstory in more detail than the outsiders. We can justify and reason for their actions when they kill. For us the wolves have no real valid reason for what they do (as a viewer). Morgan is right though. At some point, every decent person needs to be helped and saved. We may need to hope that we can redeem whoever is left. Turning them out is sure death and creating more walkers. If 80% (spit-balling here on the numbers) of the population are zombies, the 20% left will not be able to deal with them unless the people left band together. The fact that (as we know it) every person will become a walker, the focus should be to band together and keep people alive. Perhaps this is really just a waste of time since (as far as we know) everyone will turn. Keeping redeemable people alive is in our best interest to keep the human race going.  

 

While Alexandria is a nice place, why is it that they abandon other good places? Why didn't Morgan stay at Eastman's place? Why didn't Rick's crew take over Woodbury? 

[RustbeltWriter]

 

While Alexandria is a nice place, why is it that they abandon other good places? Why didn't Morgan stay at Eastman's place? Why didn't Rick's crew take over Woodbury? 

 

I think Morgan left the cabin because Eastman told him to go find people. As for Rick's people, I think they thought the prison was more secure than Woodbury and by the time it was destroyed the Governor had burned it down.

[rab01]

I thought it was obvious those guys saw Morgan as potentially an easy mark, they were going to attack him and take whatever they found. They were survivors, just like Morgan. Morgan was not at war with them, they were not at war with Morgan. Morgan flat out murdered them (insanity defense might work for him though).

 

The two situations are not at all the same or even similar. Rick has murdered many people (the two assholes in Herschel's bar, the running handcuffed guy, termites, porchdick) but all these situations could rightly be viewed through the prism of war. Morgan's actions, at least what we saw last night, can not be viewed that way.

I agree that the two people he killed seemed to be chasing Morgan as an easy mark.  To me, that meant Morgan's situation was pretty similar to Rick's situation at the bar near Herschel's farm. There might have been a way for everyone to leave alive but it was certainly hard to see it.

 

Thankfully for me, I got over being angry about this being a 90-minute flashback episode when I called it last week from the previews and realized that it would probably make me hate an episode I was otherwise looking forward to.   The Walking Dead is a MUCH more enjoyable show as a season-long binge watch than watching it in real time because the writers like to delay gratification in ways that just become very frustrating after a while.  (pure speculation but

I wouldn't put it past them to find Glenn alive only to have him killed on that very same episode.

).

 

I liked this episode for what it was - a "My Dinner with Andre During the Zombie Apocalypse."  If that actors are selling it, the dialogue is well written and the cinematography is up to its usual standards, I'm pretty happy. Yeah, Eastman died stupidly but he had to die from the moment we saw him so "how" he died was less important than "why" he died and how he reacted to it. 

 

To defend Eastman's statement about having only met one evil man -- Eastman didn't say that he would have let out many of those other inmates he interviewed or that they weren't psychopaths; he just said that he only met one truly evil man. That statement may or may not have been true but it was in keeping with Eastman's history that he would consider the guy who escaped solely to kill his family to have been on a completely different plain of vileness than everyone else.

 

Also, Eastman wasn't an Aikido expert. He just took some weekly classes. Good enough for taking out walkers is all (courtesy of the TD)

[jay741982]

As someone else mentioned, yeah, the bullet and Goo Goo Cluster were both there. I tried to find a picture of the map that included them, but couldn't.

 

 

Lennie said this ep was filmed as ep. 8, I believe. He had filmed 1-7 without having seen the script for this one.

Lennie said that 8 was filmed BEFORE this episode though.

[wmdekooning]

...Lennie James lost some credibility with me on Talking Dead.  No way have we had 5 days of 106 degree weather EVER in Georgia much less in a row.

Lennie James is English remember?

 

Even though I haven't been there, I don't think it gets as warm there as it does in GA where I had lived for 10years. I'm thinking he may have been exaggerating.

 

That said, I can recall Mark E. Smith, singer for the band The Fall looking miserable as frak one 90-something degree evening before a show at the Masquerade. I don't think Manchester prepared him for that level of heat...

[Pestilentia]

 

Yes, that point of Tabitha getting out.  Um, how?  Even if she was able to push open the cell door - not that hard to believe - how did she open the cabin door?  Even if it was a non-knob handled door, it still required action taken to get the door to open that a goat simply couldn't do (or know how to do).

I dunno- the goats I have been around have been very clever creatures who are great at problem solving and have extremely long memories regarding how they did so.

Who even knows how well the house was closed up while folks were away.

[nachomama]

Lennie James is English remember?

 

Even though I haven't been there, I don't think it gets as warm there as it does in GA where I had lived for 10years. I'm thinking he may have been exaggerating.

I'm in GA and it was hot as hell. Whether it actually reached 106, the humidity would choke you to death. Not pleasant. at all.

[Tarasme]

Morgan got yet another person killed....

 

I'm sad that Morgan is the epitome of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." He kills everybody- resulting in someone else dying. He attempts to value life- resulting in someone else dying. They're all doomed, no matter what they do and the results of their values only matter in so much as they can live with themselves for the short time they have left.

 

I don't see Morgan as sanctimonious or self aggrandizing or having any kind of hero complex. He's a guy that was left behind, couldn't save anyone, and had to figure out a way to live. Morgan's way to live is to be committed to his principles.

 

Carole- and everyone like her- would sacrifice anything or anyone to keep her priorities in check. Morgan's decided all life is worth his own sacrifice, unfortunately, he's one guy and so far odds are stacked against him. 

[TVFan17]

Normally I don't tend to like these slower episodes focusing on one main cast member -- for example, even though The Governor was a fascinating character, I really didn't care what he was doing as he was wandering around after he left Woodbury -- but I actually thought this was a really good episode. 

 

For starters, I like Morgan anyway.  Whether Morgan is crazy or not, I still like his character and think he is a good person.  I like his friendship with Rick.  So far I have enjoyed his interaction with Carol, Michonne and Daryl.  I already feel bad for Morgan because he lost his wife and child, was abandoned by Rick at first, went nuts and is now trying to be a non-killing/voice of reason kind of dude, even though he really has nothing to live for.  I also know that this means that he is almost certainly going to die some sort of horrible death, which is going to be very sad. 

 

The other main reason I liked this episode was because of Eastman.  We've seen so many of the evil, awful people who have survived by wreaking havoc on their fellow humans, but we haven't seen too many good people outside of our group -- and especially not too many good people who are totally on their own.   I like straying from our primary group every so often to see if and how anyone else 'out there' is surviving, and learning who this person was before the world fell apart.  I liked getting a glimpse into another survivor's life, and how he was getting by in his circumstances -- just eatin' falafels, growing tomatoes and trying to make cheese!  Eastman seemed almost "happy" in his cabin, relatively speaking.  He hadn't given up on life.  I like that he befriended Morgan and treated Morgan as though he mattered, and that was the impetus for Morgan to go out there and look for Rick or just for other people in general.

 

I still think that this episode killed the momentum built up last week, by leaving everyone hanging about Glenn -- when, in reality, most people don't think Glenn is dead anyway, so the whole thing might end up being rather anticlimactic -- but I thought it was a good, necessary episode.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Sherry67

[heisenberg]

there are no resources left (human or technological) to research what the virus is and then develop a cure.

 

 

We don't know that. 

 

We don't see anyone using technologie either (Planes, drones, radio air waves, television, networks of some kind, big spot light on a tower like Batman, etc...)

 

No one seems to know how to use technologie anymore,  that is weird. 

 

Even in Alexandria I would have a short wave radio and I would be trying to communicate, but no one seems to care.

 

And I found this episode so boring...  90 minutes of Karate kid as someone said...

Edited November 2, 2015 by heisenberg