Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[SueB]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I read the SPN tag during the episode, which is anyone posting with #supernatural,not just people i follow, and  I saw far more condemnation of Dean for even suggesting that Jack had to die and saying Dean was a jerk for doing it. I saw celebration of Cas speaking his mind to Dean, and even encouragement for Cas and Sam to punch Dean again to save Jack. I saw much speculation that Chuck wasn't Chuck either which.. okay. My point is that the summary above whilst not representative of ALL opinions wasn't that far off what I saw during the two hours I spent on the #supernatural tag.

There’s too many variables at play in my opinion.  If we listened to ‘fandom’ on Rotten Tomatoes, no one would have seen Captain Marvel.   

There’s always the risk of echo chamber curating on a timeline — I aggressively curate out wank and hatred, I generally know where to find that stuff if I want to, but I avoid it unless I have an itch I want to scratch  - but SPN fandom is far too diverse for consensus opinion except for on topics that have been ongoing for a long while.  For example, consensus opinion that fandom does not feel the need for more Lucifer is something I buy*. Reaction to a single episode?   We’ll see if that stands the test of time IMO.  

*I’m confident there are fans out there for him. There’s no absolutes for a show this long running and this complicated. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by SueB

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, SueB said:

For example, consensus opinion that fandom does not feel the need for more Lucifer is something I buy*. Reaction to a single episode?   We’ll see if that stands the test of time IMO

I'm not sure how, if you're filtering out what you determine are  wank and hater posts how that makes it any more objective. I'm saying I read through at least 2000 comments for that episode from all corners, and and when it came to Jack and  Dean, it was Dean taking a beating for sure, even Chuck didn't come off worse than Dean. Jack's actions were mostly ignored because the poor baby didn't know any better.

[SueB]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not sure how, if you're filtering out what you determine are  wank and hater posts how that makes it any more objective. I'm saying I read through at least 2000 comments for that episode from all corners, and and when it came to Jack and  Dean, it was Dean taking a beating for sure, even Chuck didn't come off worse than Dean. Jack's actions were mostly ignored because the poor baby didn't know any better.

Wank and hater posts are just angry noise IMO.  2000, or 20,000.  If someone is coming from an obvious bias, what value does that social media post provide?  What I see as far more valuable are posters who have evaluate plots and character arcs without a conspiracy theory being the root cause of why the plot went in a particular direction.  30 posts of THAT kind are more relevant to me. 

So, yeah, I pretty much reject the notion that 'Dean is a villain' is how the audience generally took this last episode.  Some vocal people on SM may feel that way.  But the material was presented intentionally divisive (so arguments on who has the right POV is understandable) but it ended with TFW literally having each other's back in 'Zombie Apocalypse 2019'. I believe people walking away thinking the episode demonstrated "Dean is a villain" already HAD that POV before they saw the episode.  

And I find those kind of spleen venting social media posts irrelevant. 

[raven]

The topic is Dean and your thoughts on Dean, not fandom talk about Dean.  Stay on topic.

[Kanner]

Spoiler for Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3

Spoiler

Dean should give Jon Snow a call and talk him through how to deal with siblings stealing or at least trumping your story arc.  lol

 Of course, no matter what I am watching it comes back to Dean. (I may have issues). 😉

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:34 AM, Kanner said:

Spoiler for Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3

  Hide contents

Dean should give Jon Snow a call and talk him through how to deal with siblings stealing or at least trumping your story arc.  lol

 Of course, no matter what I am watching it comes back to Dean. (I may have issues). 😉

Spoiler

The Creepy brother with greensight gave her a valerian steel blade and set himself up as bait in the woods where she used to play and where she would have a tactical advantage.  The creepy witch gave her a prophecy about killing and closing eyes of three different colors, and said they would meet again. They do and the witch then propels her to her destiny. This witch's sole purpose was to identify the savior that would  defeat the NK and stop the long night. 

Why is it so surprising that it was the one person that actually trained and dedicated herself to dealing death to fight for the lives of her family. No one on that show is more like Dean than Arya.

Edited May 1, 2019 by raven
added spoiler tags

[Casseiopeia]

It's not really Dean but does it matter?

[gonzosgirrl]

I've never felt more like a cougar in my life. Sweet Chuck, he's beautiful.

[Pondlass1]

9 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

It's not really Dean

Well, it is how Dean looked at that age.  Can you imagine looking like this and living the  mean streets life he led.   I'm sure monsters weren't the only things he had to watch out for and fight off on a daily basis.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Well, it is how Dean looked at that age.  Can you imagine looking like this and living the  mean streets life he led.   I'm sure monsters weren't the only things he had to watch out for and fight off on a daily basis.

Technically, I guess Dean looked like Brock Kelly at that age.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Technically, I guess Dean looked like Brock Kelly at that age.

Who is also a good looking kid (the best of the young Deans, IMO). It's a good thing Jensen has the acting chops to back up his looks. And he's also (IMO) getting better looking with age. I swear to Chuck there had to be a crossroads involved here somehow.

@Pondlass1 I've read too many fics with the scenario you're suggesting and they break my heart on the regular. 😢

ETA: for future reference, I totally had Brock Kelly confused with Dylan Everett in this post.

Edited May 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Who is also a good looking kid (the best of the young Deans, IMO).

I'll agree that he had the best look. But, I don't think he was the best actor of the bunch.

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Who is also a good looking kid (the best of the young Deans, IMO). It's a good thing Jensen has the acting chops to back up his looks. And he's also (IMO) getting better looking with age. I swear to Chuck there had to be a crossroads involved here somehow.

@Pondlass1 I've read too many fics with the scenario you're suggesting and they break my heart on the regular. 😢

The show itself mentioned Dean experienced being roofied at CGBG. Heck, even Jensen said a long time ago, in an interview, that Dean might have made some money being an escort essentially.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'll agree that he had the best look. But, I don't think he was the best actor of the bunch.

He didn't capture Dean at all. Of course he was saddled with the worst version of Dean. A Dean who seemed nothing like the Dean in s1 to now. I think he played what he was told to play though. And that falls back to how Dean was written in that episode.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

He didn't capture Dean at all. Of course he was saddled with the worst version of Dean. A Dean who seemed nothing like the Dean in s1 to now. I think he played what he was told to play though. And that falls back to how Dean was written in that episode.

I agree. It's hard to imagine Dean getting all belligerent with his "I'm a hero" speech. On the other hand, he was a teenager, and we know him mostly as an adult.  But, I don't really see it.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

He didn't capture Dean at all. Of course he was saddled with the worst version of Dean. A Dean who seemed nothing like the Dean in s1 to now. I think he played what he was told to play though. And that falls back to how Dean was written in that episode.

I wasn't a big fan of his portrayal either.  I think this was the Dean we would have gotten without Jensen. 

In fairness to Brock though, the was badly written in this ep.   I don't think Dean would have been calling the teacher, honey and sweetheart and announcing they wouldn't be there that long.  I would thin John told them to keep a low profile, not stick out.  No way would Dean have yelled "I'm a hero."

It's not surprising this episode was written by Dabb.

[gonzosgirrl]

Mea Culpa. I totally did NOT mean Brock Kelly.  I was thinking of Dylan Everett.

25 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'll agree that he had the best look. But, I don't think he was the best actor of the bunch.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Mea Culpa. I totally did NOT mean Brock Kelly.  I was thinking of Dylan Everett.

Ahhh. Dylan Everett was a great Dean. Didn't look anything like Jensen, but man, he nailed Dean's persona. I was rewatching Something Wicked and I thought Ridge Canipe was really good especially playing the emotional sides of Dean.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Ahhh. Dylan Everett was a great Dean. Didn't look anything like Jensen, but man, he nailed Dean's persona. I was rewatching Something Wicked and I thought Ridge Canipe was really good especially playing the emotional sides of Dean.

Dylan was good in Bad Boys, but he was great in About A Boy. He had Jensen/Dean's mannerisms and attitude down cold - so much so I don't think about the fact he really doesn't look like him.

I also thought Ridge was good, as you say.

[Katy M]

50 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Dylan was good in Bad Boys, but he was great in About A Boy. He had Jensen/Dean's mannerisms and attitude down cold - so much so I don't think about the fact he really doesn't look like him.

I'd much rather someone who can act the part than someone who looks the part.  Dylan and Ridge were both great, IMO. 

[PAForrest]

I completely disagree about Dylan's looks. I thought he not only fully embraced Jensen's Dean'isms and captured the character so completely that he and Jensen could have been separated at birth, but I also thought he totally looked the part. I believed every second Dylan was on screen. He and Ridge both looked like a young Dean Winchester at their respective ages.

Brock, OTOH, not only was terrible in the role - though I also agree he had a shit script to work with, and that's not his fault - but he looked nothing like Jensen, especially with that black hair. Sorry, no, I don't think so.

I agree with ILoveReading that Brock's portrayal is what we would have gotten, what Kripke probably originally envisioned before they shot the pilot, if Jensen Ackles hadn't been hired for the part and completely subverted expectations, rose above and beyond the material on the page, and owned the character to the point the showrunners and writers could never make him theirs again.

[Aeryn13]

Maybe it`s because I know what Jensen looked like when he was younger, giving Brock Kelly the exact same haircut and putting him into the leather jacket and basically trying to clone now-Dean`s looks for his teenage years did IMO more harm than good.

Jensen`s face holds a certain softness. By which I don`t mean plumb but round anime eyes, full lips etc. Brock Kelly actually has some of those features but with short hair and bulky jacket, he looked much harder and much older. His face looked more angular and edgy.

That defeated the entire purpose of casting someone who has at least similar features to Jensen and thus could approach Dean look-wise. By trying to recreate the likeness too much, on the surface, they actually didn`t recreate it where it counts. 

As for the acting, I think that, too, had the same problem to a degree. Brock Kelly tried to do some Jensen-mannerisms to match the "surface" but in that, the portrayal of teen-Dean got lost. Coupled with a bad script and where he obviously an actor who doesn`t work against that but plays the scenes straight, you end up with ASS. 

IMO it`s always a mistake to try and make younger versions carbon copies. I love Patrick Stewart`s Professor X and Ian McKellen`s Magneto and you can definitely see some of that in James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender`s portrayal but they were given enough leeway and have enough instincts to make the younger versions their own. Okay, and better scripts for at least them.

In that way Ridge and Dylan worked much better for me. Noone tried super-duper hard to pretend this was Jensen de-aged with CGI but both the material and the acting was much more genuine so it ultimately felt more like Dean.

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:28 PM, SueB said:

Wank and hater posts are just angry noise IMO.  2000, or 20,000.  If someone is coming from an obvious bias, what value does that social media post provide?  What I see as far more valuable are posters who have evaluate plots and character arcs without a conspiracy theory being the root cause of why the plot went in a particular direction.  30 posts of THAT kind are more relevant to me. 

So, yeah, I pretty much reject the notion that 'Dean is a villain' is how the audience generally took this last episode.  Some vocal people on SM may feel that way.  But the material was presented intentionally divisive (so arguments on who has the right POV is understandable) but it ended with TFW literally having each other's back in 'Zombie Apocalypse 2019'. I believe people walking away thinking the episode demonstrated "Dean is a villain" already HAD that POV before they saw the episode.  

And I find those kind of spleen venting social media posts irrelevant. 

They created the storyline for maximum angst. Jack essentially committed matricide. He killed Mary which is the greatest sin against Dean his number 1 dad. Then Dean was going to fulfill his promise to put him down if he broke bad which by this point would be like killing his own son. It was Greek tragedy , extremely biblical and the ultimate Winchester angst moment. 

Of course it was divisive and the fangirls are tweeting.

TFW was split asunder but by the end they were back to back in order to survive. Obviously they will get through that ordeal.

[catrox14]

I loved this read about Jensen Ackles. It's so good. (I know it's not his birthday today. I just came across this recently). I've read her other deep dives before on acting but I forgot how she really does rate Jensen right up there with the biggest stars. Her name is Sheila O'Malley and she is a professional film critic.

Happy Birthday, Jensen Ackles

Edited June 2, 2019 by catrox14

[ukgirl71]

Fabulous articles - I hope Jensen saw them and was encouraged by them - he deserves praise like that from those who know their stuff.

[Pondlass1]

I’m sure Jensen is on most casting directors radar if they’ve got any brains. I hope his next gig provides him the challenges he deserves and not some mindless superhero in a costume.

But why can’t people call him Jensen instead of Ackles?  It’s the same number of letters 🤨

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I’m sure Jensen is on most casting directors radar if they’ve got any brains. I hope his next gig provides him the challenges he deserves and not some mindless superhero in a costume.

But why can’t people call him Jensen instead of Ackles?  It’s the same number of letters 🤨

I think that is a matter of formality in writing.  She does the same with most actors names after she has introduced their names in the article. 

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I loved this read about Jensen Ackles. It's so good. (I know it's not his birthday today. I just came across this recently). I've read her other deep dives before on acting but I forgot how she really does rate Jensen and Dean right up there with the biggest stars. Her name is Sheila O'Malley and she is a professional film critic.

Happy Birthday, Jensen Ackles

Thanks for sharing this @catrox14, this was an interesting read. I especially like this part: "My hope was (is) to get in-depth with him about his acting process. Kind of an Inside the Actor’s Studio discussion. Most people with “access” ask him about the show, or “What do you think is in store for Dean in Season 13” and etc. I have no interest in that. I want a nuts-and-bolts process conversation." I love Inside the Actor's Studio and an in depth discussion with Jensen that focuses on his craft instead of questions about SPN or his family would be really interesting to me.

[Pondlass1]

I would too.  Jensen comes alive when talking about his craft.

[gonzosgirrl]

I watched the first four eps of The Boys last night. Two things: Kripke is seriously twisted. And I would love to see Jensen with a part in this. Not as a superhero,  as they are all dicks, but as one of The Boys. 

He would kick ass.

[ukgirl71]

I wasn’t getting into The Boys after 2 episodes - should I be a little more patient with it?

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

I wasn’t getting into The Boys after 2 episodes - should I be a little more patient with it?

I can see how it might not be for everyone. If you like your superheroes to be actual Heroes, then no. Where Deadpool for instance it's kind of an anti-hero oh, he still does the right thing in the end. These guys are just dirt bags. It's actually a pretty dark show. But man I would have loved to have seen Jensen in the Karl Urban role.

[ILoveReading]

LMAO. 

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I watched the first four eps of The Boys last night. Two things: Kripke is seriously twisted. And I would love to see Jensen with a part in this. Not as a superhero,  as they are all dicks, but as one of The Boys. 

He would kick ass.

Tbh, I want to see Jensen in a leading role after SPN,  not  another "one of" anything.

He's capable of being No. 1 on any call sheet at this point in his career, IMO, and granted he chose to remain on SPN in spite of not being granted even a part of that designation, officially, next time I'd like it to be different for him in that kind of a positive way.

IOW, I'd like to finally see his star rise more to where it belongs(IMO) after SPN, not simply remain where it is, which I kind of think would happen on that show.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Myrelle

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Tbh, I want to see Jensen in a leading role after SPN,  not  another "one of" anything.

He's capable of being No. 1 on any call sheet at this point in his career, IMO, and granted he chose to remain on SPN in spite of not being granted even a part of that designation, officially, next time I'd like it to be different for him in that kind of a positive way.

IOW, I'd like to finally see his star rise more to where it belongs(IMO) after SPN, not simply remain where it is, which I kind of think would happen on that show.

100% agree with this. While I would be happy seeing Jensen on my screen in any capacity I want for him to have a role where he can really shine and be appreciated in a way that he hasn't been on SPN in the last too many years.

[Casseiopeia]

I like this

[DeeDee79]

22 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I like this

I love this! 😂

[gonzosgirrl]

😭😭😭😭😭

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

Agreed.  I think it makes his face look almost gaunt.  Still hauntingly handsome, but I much prefer his "Dean" haircut.

I'm really curious to see what happens when filming for S15 is over. He's said the facial hair was mostly to be 'Jensen' for a while, but when there's no going back, will that still be the first thing on the agenda? He's mentioned not having to look like Dean forever, so I wonder if he'll grow his hair out, or get another tattoo. I suppose it will depend on what's next and how soon. I'm ready for just about anything,  just please,  baby cheeses, don't let him shave his head. 🙏

[FlickChick]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm really curious to see what happens when filming for S15 is over. He's said the facial hair was mostly to be 'Jensen' for a while, but when there's no going back, will that still be the first thing on the agenda? He's mentioned not having to look like Dean forever, so I wonder if he'll grow his hair out, or get another tattoo. I suppose it will depend on what's next and how soon. I'm ready for just about anything,  just please,  baby cheeses, don't let him shave his head. 🙏

I'm curious as well. Unlike many here, I'm not a fan of the beard craze and feel that most men (Jensen included) look better with just a little scruff or clean shaven. So we'll see if the beard is to be "Jensen for awhile" or if he really prefers it. I'm hoping for the former. I think I'll like his hair any way he cuts it, but agree that if shaving is happening, let it be on the face, certainly not on the head! Very few men carry that look well. 

[foxfreakinmulder]

Casseiopeia the only thing I can say after seeing that 1997 picture of Jensen you posted is GOOD LORD, THANK YOU FOR THE GIFT OF SIGHT. That is one beautiful man with a beautiful set of lips. Thank you sooooooo much for posting that you've made my day :-)

I've been watching some of the earlier seasons and just finished season 4 episode 5 (Monster Movie) and have to say I'm jealous of the blonde that gets to kiss Dean at the end. And if that was me I would've flubbed my lines so Dean and I would have to redo that kissing scene over and over and over and over and...

[Casseiopeia]

For science...

[tessathereaper]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

For science...

I used to watch the hell out of this scene, how does he make climbing and flipping over a fence look so beautiful?

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

I used to watch the hell out of this scene, how does he make climbing and flipping over a fence look so beautiful?

And Sexy. 

And Hotter than the Hinges on the Gates of Hell. 

And  check out the landing.  He nails it as casually as if he does it every day.

This is the kind of stuff that has made Dean Winchester such an Iconic and Immortal character.

Thank you for the reminder. 💝

[Myrelle]

brought over from the cast in other roles thread...

Tbh, I think that Chris H. would have been much  more effectively menacing if he hadn't been saddled with that stupid Marlon Brando accent from the first Alastair.

But that scene was an absolutely beautiful tour-de-force for JA and he owned it in every way, IMO.

I honestly think and feel so strongly that those scenes with Alastair were a part of Jensen's five best acting moments from the entire series.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

brought over from the cast in other roles thread...

Tbh, I think that Chris H. would have been much  more effectively menacing if he hadn't been saddled with that stupid Marlon Brando accent from the first Alastair.

But that scene was an absolutely beautiful tour-de-force for JA and he owned it in every way, IMO.

I honestly think and feel so strongly that those scenes with Alastair were a part of Jensen's five best acting moments from the entire series.

Agree on both counts. Chris' 'accent' kind of took me out of the moment a couple times, but he's still a pretty damn convincing villain. And Jensen was outstanding.

I love that he's so humble, and so generous to his co-stars, but honestly, sometimes I just want to smack him for deferring the praise that's due him. I hadn't read/heard about his comments regarding Chris before, but I've too often heard him say that Jared 'stole the show' in The End with his five minute turn as Lucifer. Ummm, no, Jensen, he did not. He was good, but you were a tour de force. Them's just the facts, sir.

[Myrelle]

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I love that he's so humble, and so generous to his co-stars, but honestly, sometimes I just want to smack him for deferring the praise that's due him. I hadn't read/heard about his comments regarding Chris before, but I've too often heard him say that Jared 'stole the show' in The End with his five minute turn as Lucifer. Ummm, no, Jensen, he did not. He was good, but you were a tour de force. Them's just the facts, sir

Yeah, same AFAIC on all of this.

I'd never heard/read of that trivia from Chris H's imdb page either, but it certainly reminded me of the same thing he's said about The End, too. 

And I'm even with you on wanting to smack him sometimes!😆

Boy doesn't know how good he truly is, I can only guess.🤩

 Hopefully he'll come to learn that better about himself when the show ends. 😉🤞 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Myrelle
Additions

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

Boy doesn't know how good he truly is, I can only guess.🤩

I truly hope this isn't the case. It would be a shame if he really does doubt his own talent, you know? 

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't get all the fuss when an actor is playing a different character. I mean, that's kind of the job description,  being able to play different roles believably. But what Jensen did in The End, and to lesser extent in Dream A Little Dream, is play two versions of the same character with such nuance and subtlety, yet we knew just who was who without question.

[ahrtee]

50 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But what Jensen did in The End, and to lesser extent in Dream A Little Dream, is play two versions of the same character with such nuance and subtlety, yet we knew just who was who without question.

Two versions *at the same time* and playing against himself.  That's not even the same as, say, Soulless Sam or even Possessed Bobby who were only one character at a time and didn't have to face themselves.  (That sounds very confusing, doesn't it? 😐)

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Two versions *at the same time* 

I kinda thought that went without saying. 🙂