S02.E04: Waiting for Taleju

[CooperTV]

Elizabeth finds herself pushed out of the president's inner circle for disagreeing with his response to the growing tension with Russia; at the same time, she and Henry try to protect Stevie from the media after incriminating photos of their daughter with Harrison surface.

 

[missbonnie]

[Xantar]

Ok Stevie. That was very brave and mature. You can stay.

[AshleyLyn]

Huh. If i was Stevie, I don't think I would have wanted to be mature in that moment. I get people having problems in life.. but that guy violated her privacy and put it out there. I would have said "fuck it" and tried my hardest to beat his ass. 

 

Been watching the show on and off, and for the most part I find it okay, but I'm put off by Tea's acting. At times it seems very wooden, then other times I see a spark in it.. but it never keeps me in a scene. 

[ToukieSmith]

Huh. If i was Stevie, I don't think I would have wanted to be mature in that moment. I get people having problems in life.. but that guy violated her privacy and put it out there. I would have said "fuck it" and tried my hardest to beat his ass. 

 

Been watching the show on and off, and for the most part I find it okay, but I'm put off by Tea's acting. At times it seems very wooden, then other times I see a spark in it.. but it never keeps me in a scene. 

 

 

I love the chemistry between Tim and Tea.  I would watch a show about them and their family alone.

[AshleyLyn]

I love the chemistry between Tim and Tea.  I would watch a show about them and their family alone.

 

The scenes between Tim and Tea are the ones I've seen the most spark in her acting. I liked the ones she had with him, and I have to say the dinner with the president and his wife was the most lively I've seen her.   But she just seems very stiff to me when with others, and I'm not sure if it's acting choice... maybe I'm looking at it wrong. I might have to do a binge watch of several episodes at once to get a better feel of it. 

[betsyboo]

I love the chemistry between Tim and Tea.  I would watch a show about them and their family alone.

Seconded.

 

My level of apathy toward speechwriter and PR girl cannot be measured. And I certainly don't care who they are dating. If we're going to delve into the staff's personal lives, show Blake on a date! What happened with Bebe and NASA guy??

 

I watch *a lot* of TV, so forgive me for thinking that Stevie and the SS agent's heart to heart was going to result in her trying to get his job back because he had been fired for being drunk on the job but it was really some rare medical condition that affected his behavior....

 

Always nice to see Christine Ebersole - they couldn't have had the first lady join the sing along a few weeks back???

 

Jason broke my heart for the second week in a row.

 

I still don't trust Smarmy NSA guy.

[Kromm]

Eye roll territory.There are elements that are close enough to real things, but the implementation is somehow so silly. The SoS being frozen out. Check. An administration turning Hawk.  Check.  Private lives, public scandal? Check. A politician's family causing all the drama?  Check. Lame and overdone versions of those, at least.

 

Then there's the more subtle alt-universe stuff that's lame. First we got an alternate Russia, and now we have an alternate Nepal.  Where the Dalai Lama is instead a little girl with a different title (and not deposed like him). Er. Okay, I get why they did this, but it still seems lame.

 

Also lame? Naomi's tech talk ("you want to create a ghost file").  That had me rolling my eyes too.

 

And the president? What a dick. Why again are we supposed to believe Elizabeth is so devoted to him?

 

The scene with the disgruntled agent and Stevie?  So cartoonish. So smugly written. Real life doesn't work like that. People don't get that satisfaction.

[buttersister]

Tim looked pretty. The President's a putz. Elizabeth and Henry should get drunk every episode---that's not what this show is about, but I'd rather watch that most weeks.

[SparklesBitch]

I love the chemistry between Tim and Tea.  I would watch a show about them and their family alone.

 

 

Seconded.

 

Thirded, although I'm not sure that's actually a thing. They're fantastic together. Before discovering this show (two weeks ago, yay for Netflix!), I only knew Tea as David Duchovny's ex-wife (I'm a giant X-Files fan) and Tim from the handful of Private Practice episodes I managed to sit through, so stumbling onto this show with these two leads that have such amazing chemistry together is such a treat!

 

My favorite thing about the show in general is their marriage. It's so refreshing that it's happy and healthy, and even though they have their bumps in the road, they trust each other and respect each other, and that comes through so easily in all of their scenes together. This is the show that the Castle writers need to be studying if they want to fix the sad state of the marriage between their two leads. There doesn't have to be manufactured drama between the married couple in order to keep the show interesting and this show proves it.

 

But anyway, on this particular episode:

 

I literally pumped a celebratory fist in the air when Henry went off on the caller on air and cheered when both he and Elizabeth defended Stevie to the President and First Lady over that disastrous dinner. Cracked up at Bess and Henry requesting another cocktail at the same time, and flat out loved that the two of them weren't afraid to defend themselves to President either. Oh, and the President apologizing was great, and Bess managing to come up with a solution and showing up the men who have been shutting her out of the inner sanctum was my favorite.

 

I really liked the nice little touch of Elizabeth asking Henry how many stupid moves are they going to let Stevie have, because clearly she's old enough and should be mature and responsible enough to not let things like that happen, which was a very good point. However, I also thought it was great that Henry pointed out that the whole country would already blame Stevie if the pictures got out, and she didn't really need her mother piling on top of all that.

 

I was impressed with Stevie, for once, for actually being mature and not at all whiny. She certainly handled that much better than I would have and I'm 10 years older than the character is.

 

On the rest of the characters: I love the younger kids and Russell, as well as Nadine and Blake and Jay, but if we could get rid of Daisy and Matt and their whole clandestine relationship thing, that would be great. Also, I hate that new NSA guy. God, he's such a tool.

 

 

I watch *a lot* of TV, so forgive me for thinking that Stevie and the SS agent's heart to heart was going to result in her trying to get his job back because he had been fired for being drunk on the job but it was really some rare medical condition that affected his behavior....

 

Me too. So glad it didn't.

[Dowel Jones]

Where the Dalai Lama is instead a little girl with a different title

 

That actually is true.  I don't know how to link to a specific article, but if you go to the online National Geographic Magazine (ngm.com), and go to the June 2015 issue (lead article - marijuana), there is a story about "Nepal's Living Goddesses".  They are chosen at a young age and get ushered out of the temple as soon as they reach puberty.

[secnarf]

 

I watch *a lot* of TV, so forgive me for thinking that Stevie and the SS agent's heart to heart was going to result in her trying to get his job back because he had been fired for being drunk on the job but it was really some rare medical condition that affected his behavior....

 

I thought exactly the same thing :P

[andromeda331]

I hadn't considered the medical illness explaining him being drunk I assumed it would be part of the

big conspiracy first Air Force One and now a Secret Service agent for being fired when he wasn't

drunk. I either watch too much tv or not enough.

[Guest]

I have started liking Stevie, or at least not disliking her.  It helps that the show portrays her as not so perfect.  Entitlement and brattiness are easier to swallow in a character for me when it's acknowledged and called out on the show. When it really irritates me is when a character acts like that and the show treats them like they are wonderful.

 

I hate that putz Harrison and his stupid father.  I cheered when Bess talked about writing her resignation.  I know it wouldn't fit in the framework of the show, but I'd kinda like to see her run against him in the primary and beat him.

[kwnyc]

I still want the oppo research on the NSA jerk. Also, the conversation between Bess & the admiral was quite telling. They've made it a convention of the show that when people address each other by their titles, they are working, and when they use first names, it's sort of off-the-books/personal.

 

When it's Conrad and Bess, they are friends, though I can see why it's harder to be friends when the President is being Presidential and more of a dick.

 

There is definitely a lot of visual emphasis on how Bess is one of the few, or only, women in the picture when she's at the WH, and the movement (as pointed out last week), in which the guys literally walk ahead of her. 

 

That's the smart part of the show, and they could go with it more.

 

And I have to say, Stevie was a knockout in that scene with the Secret Service agent. (Though, really, for that kind of a violation, I think they would have taken it far more seriously than a $500 fine...that's a federal crime, and I suspect in real life, if an agent did that, he might end up in Leavenworth).

[candall]

Oh, gee. . . Stevie's not exactly on the comeback trail for me.  I take more of the view "How many times are we going to give her a pass with her screw-ups?" than "Don't reduce people to one stupid thing that they did."

 

One?  A gossip columnist could have made a career out of chronicling The Misadventures of Stevie McCord.

 

Plus, she thinks $500 is half a month's rent.

 

The little Nepalese goddess was adorable and did such a good job with, mmm. . . deification + naivete.

[Dowel Jones]

Plus, she thinks $500 is half a month's rent.

 

Laugh out loud moment there.

[12catcrazy]

I enjoyed this episode but agree with others on we need less of the PR Girl/Whatever that Guy Does affair.  The guy seems to be a total dork - ugh.

 

As far as the chemistry between Bess and Henry - I've read that Tea Leoni and Tim Daly are now a couple in real-life so I guess that is reflected when they're together in the show. 

 

I wonder about Tea seeming "wooden" at times also, but I've always taken it as Bess being not entirely comfortable in her position and what she has to deal with - that at times she'd rather be back in the stables mucking out a stall rather than mucking out the s%^$ she has to deal with in D.C.

[kwnyc]

I wonder about Tea seeming "wooden" at times also, but I've always taken it as Bess being not entirely comfortable in her position and what she has to deal with

 

She's tall and beautiful; they surround her with some very good actors, and the supporting cast brings her up in craft, and over the course of a series, her own acting gets a lot better (see: Sela Ward on Sisters and Roseanne on Roseanne. Or for that matter, Julianna Margulies, who is still one of the most limited actors on her own series.)

 

Tea's always been a pretty good reactor (I remember her very short-lived sitcom in which she played a photographer), but in this show, she has to drive the plotlines & expositions, and that is heavy lifting for any actor. Fortunately, the cast and guests on this show are as good as anything on any series right now. Even the kids are quite good (Stevie showed more nuance in the last episode than she ever has.)

[Julie23]

Well, what do you know, an episode where I didn't hate Stevie. I did actually like that one of the pictures got out so she could feel the consequences of her stupidity. However, she did handle it well. I would have at least slapped the guy.Guess I'm not diplomat material! Ha!

 

I love that Elizabeth bested that warmonger guy, (is he Sec of Defense or NSA?)then told him to never say it wasnt her turn. Go girl! 

 

Also love the marriage of Professor Captain Arm Candy and SOS. Agree, agree agree SparklesBitch. Castle has lost me this year with the marriage in shambles for no reason plot.

[CooperTV]

I think I'd rather watch Russel yell at everyone for 45 minutes than to be subjected to Daisy and Matt never ending relationship drama. I didn't know why they were so into each other last year, when they were having an affair behind the backs of their significant others. And I've certainly no idea why they broke up. They're best on their own, especially Daisy, because Matt is a dumbass. Maybe he should date Stevie instead? They're perfect match. Oh, and Nadine and Daisy having a "girl" talk? Please, never again!

 

The New Guy continues to be a cartoon villain. He also have very punchable face and is really one-note. I'm glad Elizabeth could manage to win this round with him but he's such an unrealistic omnipotent antagonist, it doesn't seem like a win at all. Again, still need more Russel.

 

Jay without his mountain man look is back! The conversation between him and Elizabeth was soooo nicely done, very natural, and the actors have great screen chemistry.

 

I think the entire "family" squabble at the POTUS' dinner was great. The FLOTUS has little to do but the cocktails line and Henry's and Elizabeth's reactions were comedy gold.

 

Nope, writers, you didn't convince me Stevie is more than a sum of her parts. Because she made too many dumb choices for me even care for her anymore. Oh, and her hair at the beginning was stupid, so there!

[J-Man]

It was interesting that they had three Lead Actress in a Musical Tony Award winners (Bebe Neuwirth, Patina Miller, and Christine Ebersole) in one episode -- but no singing!

[shapeshifter]

As far as the chemistry between Bess and Henry - I've read that Tea Leoni and Tim Daly are now a couple in real-life so I guess that is reflected when they're together in the show.

Yes, I can't really applaud "chemistry" in actors when it's not acting. And I find myself dreading the possible on-screen moment when the thrill is gone off-screen.

But it is a refreshing relationship among a sea of marital dissonance across TV land.

Edited October 27, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Guest]

Yes, I can't really applaud "chemistry" in actors when it's not acting. And I find myself dreading the possible on-screen moment when the thrill is gone off-screen.

But it is a refreshing relationship among a sea of marital dissonance across TV land.

I personally thought they had chemistry in the beginning of the first season, before they started dating.  So hopefully that won't happen.

 

I also liked that there was no NSA spy-handling this week.  

[hatchetgirl]

They couldn't spend more time with the living goddess? She was lovely and i would have enjoyed a scene with Henri and her.

So not interested in Stevie.

Finally, everyone Bess is ignored, spoken over, pushed out of the conversation, I feel a knife in the heart as I have it happen weekly. Granted I'm not in the white house. Lol

[crashdown]

Plus, she thinks $500 is half a month's rent.

 

 

What's so hilarious there?  My rent is $1100, so that's pretty much dead on for me.  Do you think it's too much or too little?

Edited October 27, 2015 by crashdown

[stephalex76]

Then there's the more subtle alt-universe stuff that's lame. First we got an alternate Russia, and now we have an alternate Nepal. Where the Dalai Lama is instead a little girl with a different title (and not deposed like him). Er. Okay, I get why they did this, but it still seems lame.

The Dalai Lama is from Tibet. Different country.

[Texasmom1970]

Still love this show despite a few annoyances. Could not care one bit about the two staffers who used to date, but now are trying to move on.

I agree with Madam Secretary when she asked her hubby how many passes are they supposed to give Stevie. Let's think back didn't she drop out of college, date her older boss, hook up with the President's son, a recovering addict and then take pictures of them in bed. She is the daughter of a public figure, and two educated intelligent people, did someone smack her with an act like an idiot, make bad decisions stick! Sorry Stevie rant over, think my blood sugar is low no tolerance for her character.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Texasmom1970

[Kromm]

What's so hilarious there?  My rent is $1100, so that's pretty much dead on for me.  Do you think it's too much or too little?

Do you live in the Washington DC suburbs (or the good, non-ghetto part of DC itself)?  Rent's gonna be much more.

[Dowel Jones]

She is the daughter of a public figure, and two educated intelligent people, did someone smack her with an act like an idiot, make bad decisions stick!

 

She did take out the trash without being told twice just last week.  Unfortunately, it was off camera.

[innocuouspuff]

I don't hate Stevie but...I think she bores me? However despite usually loving this show for its overly optimistic progressive outlook, this ep may have been too much.

Like if Bess is an anti-slut-shaming feminist, that's to be expected. If Henry is and loses his temper on tv, also to be expected - he's basically adorably perfect after all. Aren't all jet pilot spies also feminists? But then littlest wants to quit the football team in a teenaged stand for feminism, the ex-secret service guy feels really bad about everything, and he and Stevie have the longest, most pointless conversation in the last act. Don't get me wrong, slut-shaming is terrible. But it's pretty unrealistic and kinda narratively unbalanced to the point of distraction for everyone (except faceless phone-in caller) to be so aware of that.

The dinner was adorable as is everything Bess/Henry. Presumably the actors got chosen in part because of their great chemistry, so I wouldn't criticise them for not having to pretend harder to like each other. Often that's actually a disaster. :)

Edited October 28, 2015 by innocuouspuff

[memememe76]

I think Tea Leoni has been nailing it this season. So compelling. The exhaustion she portrays, I feel tired for her. Love her. 

 

Henry with his wife is great stuff. Henry without his wife irritates me beyond belief. 

[sinkwriter]

 

This is the show that the Castle writers need to be studying if they want to fix the sad state of the marriage between their two leads. There doesn't have to be manufactured drama between the married couple in order to keep the show interesting and this show proves it.

 

PREACH.

[VinceW]

There is an alternative TV marriage to what persists with the forced separation on Castle presented with arrogance by the new producers. Invest in Elizabeth and Henry on 'Madam Secretary'. Their marriage presents as happy and healthy. They have their bumps in the road, but they trust each other and respect each other, and that comes through so easily in all of their scenes together. This is the show that the Castle writers need to study if they want to fix the sad state of the marriage between their two leads. There doesn't have to be manufactured drama between the married couple in order to keep the show interesting and 'Madam Secretary' proves it. It is amazing to compare the CBS writers approach to storytelling of marriage life onscreen versus what ABC has allowed with this contrived and twisted ("But how do you celebrate when you're having this weird 'time out'? Well, they find a way.") portrayal of a love story on Castle.  

 

 

This is the show that the Castle writers need to be studying if they want to fix the sad state of the marriage between their two leads. There doesn't have to be manufactured drama between the married couple in order to keep the show interesting and this show proves it.

 

PREACH.

 

[madam magpie]

Thirded, although I'm not sure that's actually a thing. They're fantastic together. Before discovering this show (two weeks ago, yay for Netflix!), I only knew Tea as David Duchovny's ex-wife (I'm a giant X-Files fan) and Tim from the handful of Private Practice episodes I managed to sit through, so stumbling onto this show with these two leads that have such amazing chemistry together is such a treat!

My favorite thing about the show in general is their marriage. It's so refreshing that it's happy and healthy, and even though they have their bumps in the road, they trust each other and respect each other, and that comes through so easily in all of their scenes together. This is the show that the Castle writers need to be studying if they want to fix the sad state of the marriage between their two leads. There doesn't have to be manufactured drama between the married couple in order to keep the show interesting and this show proves it.

But anyway, on this particular episode:

I literally pumped a celebratory fist in the air when Henry went off on the caller on air and cheered when both he and Elizabeth defended Stevie to the President and First Lady over that disastrous dinner. Cracked up at Bess and Henry requesting another cocktail at the same time, and flat out loved that the two of them weren't afraid to defend themselves to President either. Oh, and the President apologizing was great, and Bess managing to come up with a solution and showing up the men who have been shutting her out of the inner sanctum was my favorite.

I really liked the nice little touch of Elizabeth asking Henry how many stupid moves are they going to let Stevie have, because clearly she's old enough and should be mature and responsible enough to not let things like that happen, which was a very good point. However, I also thought it was great that Henry pointed out that the whole country would already blame Stevie if the pictures got out, and she didn't really need her mother piling on top of all that.

I was impressed with Stevie, for once, for actually being mature and not at all whiny. She certainly handled that much better than I would have and I'm 10 years older than the character is.

On the rest of the characters: I love the younger kids and Russell, as well as Nadine and Blake and Jay, but if we could get rid of Daisy and Matt and their whole clandestine relationship thing, that would be great. Also, I hate that new NSA guy. God, he's such a tool.

Me too. So glad it didn't.

First of all, SparklesBitch...HIYA!! I'm not following you around, I swear. Just lucky. :)

I'm way behind on this show and am watching sort of out of order, but...this was actually the first time I was genuinely angry with Elizabeth. When she starts questioning Stevie about the photos, she seems super supportive and gentle, which I liked. But then Stevie apologizes, Bess says "Yeah, me too," and then she goes on to Henry about how Stevie should know better. Ohmygawd. I wanted to slap her. Stevie's face when her mother walked away broke me, and I wanted to cheer when Henry pointed out that the world was about to turn Stevie into a slutty whore for maybe being naive but doing nothing wrong and she really didn't need her mother piling on just because Mama's job is hard. And then I cheered when Henry went off on C-SPAN! (I adore Henry.) Bess went a long way to making it right with her rant at the president, but boy...I didn't like the things she said to her kid. I do think we were meant to see her as in the wrong by the end, but I wish she'd been forced to say so to Stevie.

I like Stevie a lot, even when she was being a little bratty. She's probably my favorite of the kids. I think she's in such a bizarre circumstance and so young and doing her best to navigate it all. She's super smart, but struggling, ethical, and well-meaning. And I thought she was so great at the end of this episode. Go, Stevie!! I like Jason a lot too; he's a great young guy. Alison is the most uninteresting to me, but she's sweet enough.

I love all the politics and such, but my favorite parts of this show are the marriage/family stuff and how difficult it is for all of the McCords to balance Elizabeth's job with their personal/private lives. We tend not to see celebrities/public figures as real people with real lives and families and feelings. I love that this show makes us face how incredibly hard, unfair, and sometimes painful it is for people in the public eye to exist in that fishbowl. This was a great episode for that.

In other news, I adore Tea Leoni...probably more than I should for someone I don't know personally. Not only is she super smart and funny in interviews, but she's a humanitarian who's worked with UNICEF for a long time. I also love that no matter how icky the paparazzi are, in pretty much every shot they get of her with her children, she's carrying them, playing with them, laughing with them, hugging them, etc. She just seems very loving and lovely. (If I'm wrong and she's awful in real life, I don't want to know it.) I've seen her do lots of things (Yay, Family Man!), but have always felt like she was underused. So I'm thrilled for her here and don't find her wooden at all. She's steely and detached in this role on purpose; it fits the character and situation. Bess isn't truly comfortable anywhere but at home with her family, and especially with her husband. I think Tea plays that exactly right. And I LOVE all of her clothes, especially the coats.

P.S. I could live without Matt and Daisy too. Love Blake and Nadine. Don't care for Dalton, Russell, or the new Security Advisor. And I have to say, I often watch this show and wonder why the hell Elizabeth wants her job.

Edited April 2, 2016 by madam magpie