S02.E03: The Rusalka

[CooperTV]

In the wake of Russian President Ostrov's death, Elizabeth faces off with his wife Maria, who accuses her of conspiracy against Russia. Also, Henry puts Dmitri to the test, and Jason tries out for the football team.

 

[Guest]

I hate everyone except Elizabeth, her staff, and her kids.

The President, COS, and new NSC guy are jerks.

Professor Arm Candy can feel conflicted and that's supposed to make it okay that he's ruining a guy's life in exchange for medical treatment. I'm not buying what they are trying to sell.

[buckboard]

How stupid is Elizabeth's assistant? Sitting at home, we could see that coming a mile away that taking the photo with that skeevy looking guy was going to bite them. Aren't these assistants supposed to be the best and the brightest? Didn't the aide screw up on a previous trip, as well? Like getting arrested in a men's room or something? If I were her, I'd leave him home next trip.

And while we're talking about important national issues, what is up with that blouse that Elizabeth was wearing with the material dangling from the sleeves? It looked like she was going to play flag football.

[shapeshifter]

Professor Arm Candy can feel conflicted and that's supposed to make it okay that he's ruining a guy's life in exchange for medical treatment. I'm not buying what they are trying to sell.

I wanted Professor Arm Candy to tell his spy student that even if he decided he didn't want to spy anymore that his sister could stay in the trial. Anyway, in a trial, she could just be getting a placebo, right? But, alas, Dr. Arm Candy was not so nice. My guess is Spy Student commits suicide and Dr. Arm Candy decides to just be a stay at home dad. Or will the Spy Bosses threaten him too?

So did the evil new guy in the Oval Office inner sanctum help orchestrate the rise of the Russian widow into her Hitleresque prominence?

[Athena5217]

Why did the have that tent set up in the middle of the room? I missed something when I went to the kitchen.

[Xantar]

Why did the have that tent set up in the middle of the room? I missed something when I went to the kitchen.

 

It's some kind of signal blocking tent. What goes on in there cannot be spied on by electronic means or something like that. Tech guy gave it to them.

 

Last year, the big bad was a conspiracy to get the United States to go to war with Iran. This year, it seems there's some big conspiracy to get the United States into a shooting war with Russia. It will probably be someone other than the Russians themselves who want this. I just wish they didn't have to make POTUS and his COS into idiots in the process. 

[Netfoot]

So did the evil new guy in the Oval Office inner sanctum help orchestrate the rise of the Russian widow into her Hitleresque prominence?

 

Just exactly what I was thinking.  And 30-year-old tech guy is just the man to find that out, somehow.  But can we please lose Asshole with Dog?

[shapeshifter]

Just exactly what I was thinking.  And 30-year-old tech guy is just the man to find that out, somehow.  But can we please lose Asshole with Dog?

Netfoot, dear, you do realize what your avatar looks like, don't you? Heh.

[Netfoot]

Heh!  Yep, I have a dog (leaning up against my leg and snoring) and who knows?  I may even be an asshole!  But I don't drag my dog into public buildings and offices, and expect everyone to jump to attention and attend to him.  I don't know exactly where the Secretary of State would have her office, but I'd be very surprised to learn that you could just walk in there with your dog.  I do know that if you tried that around here, the guard at the door would stop you dead in your tracks before you got three feet.

 

Unless that dog happened to be a Corgi, you wouldn't stand a chance!

Edited October 19, 2015 by Netfoot

[bros402]

I wanted Professor Arm Candy to tell his spy student that even if he decided he didn't want to spy anymore that his sister could stay in the trial. Anyway, in a trial, she could just be getting a placebo, right?

 

No placebos in the majority of cancer trials. That'd be way too cruel. They are only used when the placebo will not cause those receiving the placebo harm/death/discomfort.

[Kromm]

How stupid is Elizabeth's assistant? Sitting at home, we could see that coming a mile away that taking the photo with that skeevy looking guy was going to bite them.

I knew within 0.5 seconds. No... even less.

[Kromm]

So did the evil new guy in the Oval Office inner sanctum help orchestrate the rise of the Russian widow into her Hitleresque prominence?

Nah. As over the top ridiculous as this whole Eva Peron storyline is (that fits better than Lady Hitler), that doesn't fit. There's no way the positions of these two could possibly align.

That said, I'll take bets on her having had her husband killed.

What's in the air is who the cyber-attacker is. They made it seem like it had to be the Russians, but I'm not so sure. It's unlikely to be the Chinese, because they were last season. If it's domestic US, we need a different explanation than last season for a conspiracy.

As for the new Security Advisor guy? I think the explanation for this guy is going to be a lot more banal and ordinary. He's just a power crazed wacko and warmonger. Simple. We may get some misdirects making us think it's more... but it's not.

Captain Super-Dad Professor Dr. McWonderful's spy storyline has more chance of having some tie-in to something bigger. Otherwise it's just lame.

[33kaitykaity]

I think I knew before she even started talking that Mrs. Russian President's Widow was going to an Eva Peron.  It was pretty topical actually, kind of catches into the whole hey, let's beat the US to having their first female president ever.  

[shapeshifter]

What's in the air is who the cyber-attacker is...If it's domestic US, we need a different explanation than last season for a conspiracy.As for the new Security Advisor guy? I think the explanation for this guy is going to be a lot more banal and ordinary. He's just a power crazed wacko and warmonger.

Maybe Security Advisor is behind the hacking, with the purpose being to put them on high alert and warmongering. Maybe right now he's thinking that he should have had his hackers leave a trace of Russian language in the code--like maybe a Cyrillic letter or two. BTW: Was the new Security Advisor instrumental in the hiring of the seemingly sweet and innocent, young network security guy?

[readster]

Everything is going to blow up in the face of the president with Security Advisor guy its going to make all the men look like morons. I'm sorry, but the writing is on the wall. I don't think they could have predicted Female Hitler but this is just the classic: "I'll turn this to my advantage. Kill them all and let God sort them out." Problem with Madam Secretary like other government shows, all of a sudden there is a dark conspiracy in the US government and in the end the bad guys go: "It was for the greater good." 

[gazebo]

I felt so sorry for Dimitri.  I almost wish he didn't agree to spy for the U.S.  They were really testing the heck out of him to see if he'll break and afterwards, in comes Henry, not apologetic at all but really stone cold.  I'm not use to see Henry looking so cold.  This is another side of him that is really kind of evil and pragmatic.  I thought Henry would make a lousy recruiter and handler since he seemed to have such a compassionate nature; but I was wrong.   I realize now that he's perfectly suited to this task.  Dimitri freaking out in his room and destroying the furniture trying to find any bugs made me feel just so awful for him.  I have a funny feeling that Dimitri is going to end up dead and it's going to be Henry's fault.

 

Sterling is definitely out to get Elizabeth.  And I think the POTUS doesn't care because he is a little too blinded by his dislike and jealousy of Elizabeth right now.  I was so glad when Elizabeth agreed to let her advisor with the dog to "make a binder" of Sterling.  She said she was afraid Sterling was going to drag the U.S. into a war with Russia but I think also that she is now hit with the reality that she has a real enemy in the White House and she needs to protect herself.  I think Elizabeth works really well under pressure and she'll find a way to get rid of Sterling.

 

I knew that fool was going to get into trouble posing in front of the camera with that Russian stranger.  I was definitely not surprised to learn that it was the Russian president's widow who engineered that piece of anti-American publicity.  What a smart way to make her look good in front of the Russian people.  When the widow went out on the balcony and threw her arms in the air, I started chanting "Evita!  Evita!"  Got a real kick out of the whole thing.

 

I really liked this episode and I thought the cliffhanger was a doozy!  So what person or organization got a hold of the POTUS' plane when it went missing last week?  When are they going to strike again?

 

I see "Madame Secretary" has really stepped up it's game and it's been really fun to watch so far.

 

 

[roomtorome]

We already had her in one somewhat antagonistic relationship with the president's chief of staff, now we have to have a Big Bad to also be a dick for the sake of creating tension?  Bad and lazy writing, in my opinion, when this trope occurs.

 

I guess they figured they had to give husband more to do so they cooked up this silliness and it is pretty much fast forward territory for me; its just boring to me.

 

I understood and she was friends with POTUS as well as colleagues so I'm  not sure I am buying that he would have, without notice, dropped the creepy security advisor on her.  If he wasn't pleased with her results - have a conversation.  Just don't buy what they are selling here.  

[Dowel Jones]

Wouldn't the Russian Security Service be aware of the fact that Dimitri's sister had been admitted to a cancer trial in the US?  That would certainly bear some investigation and surveillance on him.  My guess is either suicide or he gets turned to a double agent for the other guys, whatever their initials are now.

 

What happened to Stevie?  What happened to Stevie?  *Crickets*  I knew there was a reason this episode was entertaining. 

[leighdear]

Thankfully no Stevie this week, but it looks like a full dose next week....*blech*

 

 

And while we're talking about important national issues, what is up with that blouse that Elizabeth was wearing with the material dangling from the sleeves? It looked like she was going to play flag football.

That was pretty unattractive, but I FLOVED the white blouse with navy color-blocking she wore in the beginning.  She wears a bunch of strange, 3/4 sleeve jackets that I just don't care for, but they're definitely showing Bess as a not-your-typical-politico-pantsuit type of gal.  I like that. 

[izabella]

Wouldn't the Russian Security Service be aware of the fact that Dimitri's sister had been admitted to a cancer trial in the US?

 

 

I got the impression the trial was in Germany or somewhere, but not in the US. 

[J-Man]

 

I got the impression the trial was in Germany or somewhere, but not in the US.

I think it was in Stockholm.

 

So the world's on the verge of WWIII, but in next week's preview EVERY scene was about Steven and the Wayward First Son? What -- is this show "Scandal" now?

[CooperTV]

OMG, I watched the first half of the episode, and I can't do it anymore! Annoying Dog Guy is back with the vengeance! POTUS, Russel and the New Guy are cartoon villains! Henry is a douchebag to his Russian student/spy! Everything about Russian customs was ridiculous (the President's wife drinking from the glass with a glass-holder? Really? Are we in 1950s or what?).

 

SOS staff are the best so far. Even though Jay still has his mountain man look on.

 

The storyline with the Russian President's wife is just stupid. It would never happen. Never ever. It's like one of those terrible Tom Clancy novels now. WTF show?

Edited October 19, 2015 by CooperTV

[Kromm]

I see "Madame Secretary" has really stepped up it's game and it's been really fun to watch so far.

I think rather that's its started to go too far and stopped even the pretense of being realistic.

Then again, I suppose it could be argued that Professor Captain Flyboy Dr. Arm Candy McSpyMaster did that all by himself last season.

The storyline with the Russian President's wife is just stupid. It would never happen. Never ever. It's like one of those terrible Tom Clancy novels now. WTF show?

Well women like Eva Peron really existed, but Russia is a different bag entirely. There's really no chance of a cult of personality in Russia like that. They fear their leaders--they don't love them.

We already had her in one somewhat antagonistic relationship with the president's chief of staff, now we have to have a Big Bad to also be a dick for the sake of creating tension?  Bad and lazy writing, in my opinion, when this trope occurs.

I'm far better with political enemies as her antagonists than with these ridiculous elaborate spy stories. Sure, a good amount of diplomacy has a basis in that, but the WAY this show is relying on it for it's root plots is excessive.

[secnarf]

Dmitri's sister is definitely in Stockholm.

I feel really bad for Dmitri as well, and while I think Henry is conflicted about it, he's obviously not bothered enough to actually change what is happening.

 

I'm most intrigued by the AF`1 plot, and much less interested in the Russian plot or the new NSA guy.

[betsyboo]

I absolutely think EvaLite killed her husband. The whole ep tho I kept thinking she looked like Sarah Silverman and I kept getting lost.

 

I just love their marriage. <broken record> I know I've said it before, but their conversations are refreshing. I very much enjoyed the football convo via skype."I need to make friends." GAHH.

 

Blake, as always, remains the best character EVER. "Actually, I hate most people! It takes all of my skill to hide that!"

 

I, too, am intrigued by Air Force One hack. Am also concerned that no one fired the Tech Prodigy Guy after it took him a WEEK TO FIND IT.

 

Dog guy doesn't bother me because I feel like he's the one person (save her staff) who is on her side. The dog is immaterial to me - except when Blake went back at him (see comment above re: BCE.)

 

Don't care about Dmitri storyline, except CLEARLY he's going to kill himself.

[Netfoot]

Don't care about Dmitri storyline, except CLEARLY he's going to kill himself.

 

Or be caught and brutally murdered.  So ArmCandy can get an opportunity to show us how he suffers with guilt.  For 3-5 seconds before the scene cut.

[candall]

What happened to Stevie? 

She fast-tracked law school and is running for Congress.

[CooperTV]

Well women like Eva Peron really existed, but Russia is a different bag entirely. There's really no chance of a cult of personality in Russia like that. They fear their leaders--they don't love them.

 

There is no way dudes in any Russian government would allow a woman, not to mentioned a woman who was not an official in the government in any capacity to be a ruler, a president or whatever. There's no way. They're too sexist for that.

[SparedTurkey]

 

I think rather that's its started to go too far and stopped even the pretense of being realistic.

Well - at least she isn't winning everything every episode? What was more unrealistic? I'm sure it is building up to a massive win, but it has a slightly less optimistic tone than last year did.

[CooperTV]

Well - at least she isn't winning everything every episode? What was more unrealistic? I'm sure it is building up to a massive win, but it has a slightly less optimistic tone than last year did.

Since this episode every event in Madam Secretary is as realistic as Rocky Balboa fighting Ivan Drago and then giving heartfelt speech about the change to the enraptured Soviet generals on Rocky IV.

Edited October 20, 2015 by CooperTV

[missbonnie]

I'm still firmly on board with this show. I love that they have Henry playing a hard ass handler, yet to me he seems conflicted about the methods they are using. I love the dog guy, he's on point with the fact that Bess has been the one scoring the big wins and with an election coming up, that understandably would make POTUS nervous about his approval ratings. As far as the "realness" of the plot lines, they work for me because IRL I loathe politics. At the moment, I'm of the opinion that pretty much everyone in DC are a bunch of idiots so it's refreshing to see characters who aren't beyond stupid. The only story line that I have never cared about and still don't is Stevie's.

Edited October 20, 2015 by missbonnie

[Netfoot]

At the moment, I'm of the opinion that pretty much everyone in DC are a bunch of idiots...

 

And crooked besides!  (But just wait a while.  It's about to get worse!)

[candall]

I'm still firmly on board with this show. I love that they have Henry playing a hard ass handler, yet to me he seems conflicted about the methods they are using. I love the dog guy, he's on point with the fact that Bess has been the one scoring the big wins and with an election coming up, that understandably would make POTUS nervous about his approval ratings. As far as the "realness" of the plot lines, they work for me because IRL I loathe politics. At the moment, I'm of the opinion that pretty much everyone in DC are a bunch of idiots so it's refreshing to see characters who aren't beyond stupid. The only story line that I have never cared about and still don't is Stevie's.

I agree with ALL of this, though I was kind of surprised about Henry.  I knew the kidnapping was a test, but I thought they'd report that after-the-fact to Henry and he'd have a meltdown.  Weird/interesting to see him be all hardass.  (I hate it when people casually toss stuff into their mouths to signify detachment.  chompchomp nod shrug chompchomp)

 

It seems pretty obvious the spy game requires you to check your ethics at the door.  I thought Henry's dealio has always been all about the ethics.  Tricky footing there, bub.

[Netfoot]

He is a theology professor.  Not much ethical behavior to be found in the nature of God and religious belief.  Not if history is any guide.

[Guest]

He is a theology professor.  Not much ethical behavior to be found in the nature of God and religious belief.  Not if history is any guide.

 

He's a theology professor who was too ethical originally to give a student a grade they didn't earn even if it cost multiple lives (though I can't remember the specifics).  Now he's willing to be a spy handler and watch his handlee get beaten.  I just find it to be quite the contradiction from how we were introduced to him.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Since this episode every event in Madam Secretary is as realistic as Rocky Balboa fighting Ivan Drago and then giving heartfelt speech about the change to the enraptured Soviet generals on Rocky IV.

Oh yeah - cause this is the episode where things were unbelievable.

 

Not the one where she convinces the world to stop a genocide - even though she is winging it. Not the pilot where she manages to rescue two stupid kids with a whole bunch of aid sent out. Not the one where she flies out secret squirrel to stop the Iranian Revolution, gets blown up, but does her job. Where no one knew she was President for the day?

 

I mean - I do love this show. It is great entertainment. But does it have much grounding in this reality? No way. I love the cast, I love Elizabeth, and the show is just entertainment. Realistic? Absoutely not. Never has been.

[CooperTV]

Well, the show was grounded in reality and addressed real world politics quite often last season. This season they even managed to drag real Madeleine Albright into it, so she lectured Elizabeth (and female viewers) that women in positions of power can't afford to be weak or human. The show strives to be realistic and topical (and also tries to mix realism with Homeland-type espionage nonsense). And then they make such moronic storylines as those with Henry the Evil NSA Handler and Russian Evita Peron, straight from terrible spy-fi 1980s movies.

[leighdear]

This season they even managed to drag real Madeleine Albright into it, so she lectured Elizabeth (and female viewers) that women in positions of power can't afford to be weak or human. 

I took her advice to mean "when you are a woman on the world stage and being judged by mostly men".  I'm fine with any individual acknowledging their humanity and emotions when it is appropriate.  But then, everybody has their own definition of the appropriate time and place.  YMMV. 

[HurricaneVal]

Tea Leoni really sold that scene where she, the President, the Chief of Staff, and the National Security Advisor all walk away from the Oval Office with the three men abreast of each other, leaving her to follow behind.  The pause, the expression of consternation and anger, the stutter step, the near turn away, then the resolve that though she was mightily pissed off at the "good ol' boy" club and wanted nothing more than to stalk off in the opposite direction, it was her duty to her country and its citizens and to the service of world peace to suck it up and follow doggedly along in hopes of finding an opportunity to turn the tide.  Very well done.

[Netfoot]

I do love this show. It is great entertainment. But does it have much grounding in this reality? No way. I love the cast, I love Elizabeth, and the show is just entertainment. Realistic? Absoutely not. Never has been.

 

I suspect that too much reality would bring the humdrum plodding that is real day-to-day business of politics.  It would be terribly boring.

[Kromm]

You know, it also just occurred to me how insulting this Russia plotline is to... Russians. Especially the cosmopolitan ones who'd live in Moscow (presumably that's where the climax of the episode was supposedly taking place).  That you could just blurt out an accusation that someone is an evil spirit from a Russian folktale and not have people roll in the aisles laughing at the reference, I mean.  It's like the worst stereotype of Russians being peasants brought to life.

 

At least Rusalkas are kind of hot...

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Kromm

[missbonnie]

I suspect that too much reality would bring the humdrum plodding that is real day-to-day business of politics. It would be terribly boring.

X 100

[SparedTurkey]

 

I suspect that too much reality would bring the humdrum plodding that is real day-to-day business of politics.  It would be terribly boring.

Oh don't get me wrong - I love that this show isn't realistic. I don't want it to be. I watch it, still watch it, will watch it. But I don't see it at all as even near to real life Secretary of State/Washington DC politics. It would be nice if it was - but I think Washington has said Veep is closer than any other show - like House of Cards and The West Wing etc.

 

Plus, in the world being constructed here - I can accept that the Russian Black Widow has become the Russian Eva Peron. I love it even. Would Putin's wife (or mistress/girlfriend/whoever he has going on) ever become the leader after his death? No. But in this show, with their dictator - okay, I'll go with it.

 

Well, the show was grounded in reality and addressed real world politics quite often last season.

I agree it adressed real world politics - but in a totally fictional way not grounded in reality at all. Greek Financial Crisis - real. Elizabeth fixing it - in real life it would be in her dreams. Genocide - real. Elizabeth convincing western powers and the African Union to get involved  - yeah right. This show is pretty much a liberal fantasy of how the Sec. of State should act. And I love it. But there is no way Elizabeth would ever become Mdm Sec. in real life. There is no way her staff would still have their jobs - any of them. I don't think the show has to be full-on realistic to be entertaining or great watching. But it's just not realistic and never has been and for that reason, I am not bothered by Russian Eva Peron/Black Widow and will be really happy watching Elizabeth take her down AND that wanky little Sec. Defence dude.

 

At least with this Russian stuff - they created their own Russia to do it and had the continuity built in to do so - many shows wouldn't even bother with those details.

[shapeshifter]

He's a theology professor who was too ethical originally to give a student a grade they didn't earn even if it cost multiple lives (though I can't remember the specifics).  Now he's willing to be a spy handler and watch his handlee get beaten.  I just find it to be quite the contradiction from how we were introduced to him.

Maybe there will be some clever answer to this contradiction next week??? I don't see how, though. Is this a Retcon in response to fan nicknames like Professor Arm Candy Flyboy? If so, I'd prefer if they'd leaned into it and given him a super power.

[karasmom]

And while we're talking about important national issues, what is up with that blouse that Elizabeth was wearing with the material dangling from the sleeves? It looked like she was going to play flag football.

 

That was the dumbest design I have ever seen.  How do you eat with those flap things -- they would get into everything.  And write -- you would constantly be pulling them out of the way. 

[kwnyc]

"Don't cry for me, Conrad Dalton...the truth is, I killed my husband..."

 

[MissLucas]

I'm willing to go along with a fictional Russia that would allow a president's widow to go all Eva Peron - but what I thought was truly ridiculous was everyone blaming the SOS for not having seen it coming... while back in DC the DIA is busy phonebook-slapping a young guy they blackmailed into gathering useless intel. I don't care which three-letter agency was supposed to have black widow on the radar - but someone definitely screwed up there. With spooks like that you don't even need guys hacking Air Force One to be scared for your country's security. (I'd suggest swapping Air Force One for the time being with a Super Constellation claiming the President suffers from a luddite bout of nostalgia.)

 

Henry going to confession at the end of the episode was a cheap trick. Dude, if you're feeling guilty and conflicted about what you're doing, stop doing it and then go to confession. Right now what you're doing looks awfully as if you're trying to wash your hands preemptively - and you should know that it's not supposed to work like that.

 

I like dog guy - Elizabeth definitely needs someone on her team who's willing to play dirty.

Edited October 25, 2015 by MissLucas

[Netfoot]

I'd suggest swapping Air Force One for the time being with a Super Constellation claiming the President sufferst from a luddite bout of nostalgia.

 

Oh, yeah!  A Connie for AF1 would be brilliant!  (And beautiful.)

[Dowel Jones]

There's an actual flying model out in Camarillo, CA

[Netfoot]

I have given considerable thought to building a scale model but the cost would be quite high, and I've got something like eleven other ships on the back-burner already!