Tim Gunn: Your Fabulous Gay Uncle

[Julia]

I am hoping that that is some kind of joke/shade about everyone's speculation and discussion on stuff that actually happened (like Tim running to the judges trying to get Swapnil kicked off the show) because I can't imagine how crazy a person would need to be to write fan fiction about Timm Gunn.

Well, yes, it was, but I'm sorry to say that...

[Julia]

I hope Tim knows about that...he would be so proud.

 

Presumably he knows that he's a Marvel character, so yeah, he's aware that there's RPF out there.

[Freckledbruh]

Well, yes, it was, but I'm sorry to say that...

That is just crazy! I guess I should never be surprised by anything internet related. Lol.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Tim could have "challenged" him by talking to him.  But berating someone who won't or can't fight back and isn't in the position to fight back is very bullying behavior to me.  Be it in a group, or one on one, its taking advantage of the relative weakness of the other person in order to berate and belittle them.  And Tim did it in front of everyone to show how big and bad Tim Gunn is and how little and insignificant Swapnil is.

I don't see Tim's actions as berating bullying. I watched it four and five times and don't see that. Tim very calmly asks Swapnil what he's been doing all of this time, explaining that Swapnil has had more time than any other designer.  Then when Swapnil gives him an excuse about purposely wanting to wait until the last minute Tim says, "bullshit! bullshit! I'm really just fed up.  What is the fucking point!"  This is not bullying. Just because he raised his voice, does not mean he is bullying.

 

I doubt Swapnil was harmed. Maybe he was actually helped by someone calling him on his excuses and laziness.  He's not a weak defensive child. He's a grown up contestant on a TV game show.  This is what he signed up for.

Edited October 15, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[RCharter]

I don't see Tim's actions as berating. I watched it four and five times and don't see that. Tim very calmly asks Swapnil what he's been doing all of this time, explaining that Swapnil has had more time than any other designer.  Then when Swapnil gives him an excuse about purposely wanting to wait until the last minute Tim says, "bullshit! bullshit! I'm really just fed up.  What is the fucking point!"  This is not berating. This is how adults who are frustrated sometimes talk with each other.  

 

I doubt Swapnil was harmed. Maybe he was actually helped by someone calling him on his excuses and laziness.  He's not a weak defensive child. He's a grown up contestant on a TV game show.  This is what he signed up for.

 

Being a frustrated adult and berating someone are not mutually exclusive things.  Frustrated adults often berate others and that what Tim did.

 

Whether or not Swapnil was harmed is barely the point.  It doesn't change the fact that Tim bullied him.  The fact that a "mentor" would undertake to act in such a way to a designer they were mentoring.  That they would use their position of influence to berate someone that they know couldn't fight back in front of everyone is disgusting to me.  I don't think anyone signs up to be screeched at in front of a room of people.  Especially by someone who is supposed to be their "mentor."  The Tim Gunn of earlier years would pull a designer aside and talk with them in private, so Swapnil didn't sign up to be publicly berated by Tim Gunn.  Not everyone who signs up for a reality show signs up to be demoralized by a guy with a nonsensical grudge.  Swapnil never disrespected Tim and he didn't deserve that. 

 

I just get so amused by this forgiveness of Tim's behavior "well, he was frustrated, well, he was upset" and?  You're suddenly allowed to berate someone publicly when you're frustrated.  Isn't Tim all about taking the high road in the face of frustration?  Guess not....unless he considers his actions the high road.  If Tim considers his behavior "the high road" than he is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited October 15, 2015 by RCharter

[Madding crowd]

Well, I take a somewhat middle ground here. If anytime someone raises their voice, it's bullying, then every human being is a bully and has been bullied, which renders the whole term useless. I have seen many people raise their voice in the workplace but unless it is a continual thing, is done with the intent on harming the person, I don't consider it bullying. I'm a teacher and I can see the difference between a student raising their voice one time and sending 100 hate messages on the internet. Tim is actually not Swapnil's boss in this, he is a mentor. Whether he is secretly doing things behind the scene or not, he is not Swapnil's superior.

 

I also think Tim was acting unprofessional here. I certainly have seen judges say the same things on other reality competitions, but usually without swearing or being so heated. But, I also think Tim cares a lot about the contestants and therefore becomes more involved that the usual reality show mentor/judge. I think there is more to the story than we were shown. The other contestants looked concerned for Swapnil, Swapnil did appear to be upset/disorganized the last couple of weeks. I have no idea what was going on and won't speculate but something was. So, no I don't think Tim is a bully but I do think it is unprofessional. I think this type of thing is found all over the fashion world and it stinks. Anna Wintour is famous for her meanness. You have to be tough to work in fashion.

[Haberdasher]

The real Tim Gunn IMHO is not the nice Grandpa Tim character, it's kind of a bitchy gossiper with often limited tolerance for some people.

 

I read his blog posts and watched his videos years ago, and re-visited some of them last year. I was shocked at how critical and at times insulting he was (or rather, shocked that I had forgotten that side of him). He really used to go after the show when he disagreed with the decisions the judges made. Someone reined him in at some point, but it's like his true personality has been leaking out in recent seasons.

 

In any case, while I love that the judges get to look at the garments up close (seriously, they should have been doing that all along), I hate how Tim is constantly present, constantly telling them workroom related things they shouldn't need to hear if the decision is made based on the final outcome and not the process. I remember feeling uncomfortable in season 10 when the judges had Tim come out and comment on one of Ven's designs. And now that sort of thing happens constantly, and it feels like designers are being thrown under the bus.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Haberdasher

[Julia]

Has there ever been an occasion when Tim has joined in the judging and told the other judges that the choice they were considering sending a designer home for was something he advised them to do? Because that happens kind of frequently, and I've never heard him own it. It seems to me that if Tim is going to be laying dirty laundry out on the runway he should be airing some of his own. If not, I don't see what he's doing there which couldn't have been accomplished by questioning the camera crew who covered the workroom.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Julia

[mansonlamps]

Intricate stories about Swapnil's substance abuse issues and Tim's behind-the-scenes behavior, apparently.

 

 

This makes me a little sad, and also makes me wonder about the sanity of the average person on the internet.  Just wow.

[Oxy]

Has there ever been an occasion when Tim has joined in the judging and told the other judges that the choice they were considering sending a designer home for was something he advised them to do? Because that happens kind of frequently, and I've never heard him own it. It seems to me that if Tim is going to be laying dirty laundry out on the runway he should be airing some of his own. If not, I don't see what he's doing there which couldn't have been accomplished by questioning the camera crew who covered the workroom.

If he ever did admit he steered a designer wrong, it has not been shown on the air.  He's only quick to point out when a bottom three designer *didn't* follow his advice.  It's come to the point that Mr. Gunn's phoniness and simpering makes my skin crawl.  And I used to like him.

[candall]

It would be fun to have a crystal ball and see where all of this season's designers would be ranked right now if there had been no mentor present at all.

 

Naturally Tim offered quite a bit of constructive criticism in the workroom, as per his job description.  But if he hadn't been there, would the chips have fallen differently for, say, the people who ditched their original concepts and sent out a "three hour production" instead?  Impossible to know--but I do recall a couple of people got dinged for the exact element Tim suggested, so at the very least, his taste and viewpoint will not necessarily be reflected by the judges'.  Maybe sometimes a designer would have fared better by ignoring Tim and investing the whole stupid eight hours into the first thing.  There's a thought that never would have crossed my mind in the past.

 

More to the point, how many designers were affected one way or the other by Tim's remarks to the judges, after the runway, regarding workroom process (which I keep insisting is entirely inappropriate for a mentor)?

 

I don't have a sharp enough memory (plus I don't care enough) to imagine and tally up the "what if's" on both sides of the scale, but I don't think it's totally nuts to wonder whether Tim might have been almost as detrimental as he was helpful, at least for some designers.  Particularly for one of the designers.  While we're looking stuff up in the dictionary, that's not what it says under "mentor."

 

Kind of a shame for a roomful of people who practically fell on their knees and genuflected when Tim Gunn first walked through the door.

Edited October 15, 2015 by candall

[RemoteControlFreak]

 Tim is actually not Swapnil's boss in this, he is a mentor. Whether he is secretly doing things behind the scene or not, he is not Swapnil's superior.

Nope.

 

Swapnil is a contestant on a television game show of which Tim Gunn is a producer. That actually makes Tim Swapnil's superior.

 

Also, I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but here's Tim's take on the episode:  http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/05/project-runway-season-14-tim-gunn

Edited October 15, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Madding crowd]

I don't agree. The contestants on a game show are not employees and producer titles have little to do with who calls the shots on theses types of shows.

[RCharter]

If he ever did admit he steered a designer wrong, it has not been shown on the air.  He's only quick to point out when a bottom three designer *didn't* follow his advice.  It's come to the point that Mr. Gunn's phoniness and simpering makes my skin crawl.  And I used to like him.

I started to notice that a few seasons ago.  It annoys me because he seems to take such joy in telling the mentors when someone ignored his advice and is in the bottom.  But he seems to take no such joy in pointing out when the designer of a top three look completely ignored his advice, or when a designer with a bottom three took his advice.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I don't agree. The contestants on a game show are not employees and producer titles have little to do with who calls the shots on theses types of shows.

Who said Swapnil was an employee?  He's an independent contractor hired by the producers of Project Runway.  

 

And Tim's producer title is not just an honorary title.   

 

Look, remember that the only  (yes, the only) reason Project Runway exists is to get as many viewers, and therefore sponsor dollars, as possible.

 

I think Tim and the judges and the off-camera producers all agreed that Swapnil wasn't putting in effort.  That's not the dispute. The dispute is whether to cut him earlier or later.  

 

The problem with cutting him earlier, like in week 9, is that the show would have been down to only one male contestant and 6 females. That's not good for ratings.  

 

The producers are very aware of their audience demographic and who the audience wants to see.  They don't want to see six women and one man.  Tim seems to more care more about having good designers than about ratings.  

[Madding crowd]

Tim May not have an honorary title but there are 10 executive producers , three co-producers and two other producers before him. So I don't believe he has much power. The contestants are not contracted employees either , they chose to enter a contest on the chance of winning something like every other competition.

[Madding crowd]

I certainly agree that Tim is a mentor and should be professional. But I've watched Tim for many years and I have only seen Swapnil for a few episodes, so I'm not ready to say a Tim is the anti Christ. He can be petty and useless, but I also think he cares about the designers. I do notice that the judges don't often agree with Tim and that is why I think he has limited power. He also complains a lot about the judges decisions and if he had true power over the executive producers he wouldn't have to be complaining so much.

[RCharter]

Look, remember that the only  (yes, the only) reason Project Runway exists is to get as many viewers, and therefore sponsor dollars, as possible.

 

I think Tim and the judges and the off-camera producers all agreed that Swapnil wasn't putting in effort.  That's not the dispute. The dispute is whether to cut him earlier or later.  

 

The problem with cutting him earlier, like in week 9, is that the show would have been down to only one male contestant and 6 females. That's not good for ratings.  

 

The producers are very aware of their audience demographic and who the audience wants to see.  They don't want to see six women and one man.  Tim seems to more care more about having good designers than about ratings.  

 

If it was a matter of the judges agreeing with Tim, there was no reason to consistently put Swapnil's designs in the top 3 week, after week, after week.  They could have simply let him run the middle and then had him fail spectacularly.

 

The judges should only be concerned about what walks down the runway.  They shouldn't be concerned with the lack of effort, and if thats the primary criteria, this show should be renamed "Project Hard Work" and lets call it a day.

 

To me, the dispute should have been -- "should we be judging a designers efforts, or should be judging a designers final look"  Since this show is Project Runway, and not "Project Enough Effort," only the final look should be judged.

 

And if Tim has different concerns than the producers and the judges, he needs to take that up with them.  Not undertake to get a designer sent home for anything other than his runway looks.

 

Tim has a teacher-student relationship with the designers in his role as mentor. He also has the ability to direct information or misinformation to the judges without the designers having an opportunity to dispute what he has said. This puts Tim in a powerful position as far as the designers go.  It is not a matter of titles alone...it is what Tim can do to in reality.  And, in reality, he has a lot he can do  to build up or undermine a designer depending how he personally feels about them.

 

And thats the thing, Swapnil had no chance to defend himself from whatever Tim was whining about to the judges.  Zac was a fool for listening to any of it, but if you just have one side of a story and that person is pushing and pushing and pushing and making the situation just sound awful than its likely to be believed.  And the only thing the judges should judge is what is coming down the runway.  This is the reason they gave for changing to an anonymous runway.  They didn't want to take a designers "reputation" into account when judging their looks.  And while that is almost always a joke because you can tell who does what pretty easily, it just shows that the judges knew that the only thing they should judge is a look.  Not effort, not reputation, and not Tim's personal petty vindictive drama.

[Julia]

I don't know that you have to think Tim is the antichrist to give him the 'credit' he appears to be seeking. He's told multiple media outlets that he lobbied the judges repeatedly and ultimately successfully to send Swapnil home because he didn't like his attitude. I'm not sure how it shows the man any respect to not take him at his word. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Julia

[RemoteControlFreak]

 And, in reality, he has a lot he can do  to build up or undermine a designer depending how he personally feels about them.

Sure he can, as can Heidi or Nina or Zac.  That's the way the game is played.

 

Again, the contestants are not students in a school with Tim as the teacher.  They are contestants on a TV game show in which one player is sent home each week for  any number of logical, illogical, fair or unfair reasons. It's no different than Donald Trump wagging his "you're fired" finger at his apprentice contestants because he doesn't like them.  

[RemoteControlFreak]

Tim May not have an honorary title but there are 10 executive producers , three co-producers and two other producers before him. So I don't believe he has much power. The contestants are not contracted employees either , they chose to enter a contest on the chance of winning something like every other competition.

Once again, I never said the contestants were contracted employees, or any type of employee. They are independent contractors hired by Project Runway.  An independent contractor is someone who provides a service for someone else in exchange for compensation.  An independent contractor is not an employee.

Edited October 17, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Madding crowd]

This is from Mila Hermanowski's blog : "Contrary to popular belief, we Project Runway designers don't get paid a penny to compete on the show (people are always shocked to hear this; it's a question Iʼve been asked many times), and honestly it never really pays us anything back post-show either, except to hear that we've inspired people (which is nice and all but it doesnʼt pay the bills or help our businesses get off the ground)."

Edited October 17, 2015 by Madding crowd

[backgroundnoise]

And if Tim has different concerns than the producers and the judges, he needs to take that up with them.  Not undertake to get a designer sent home for anything other than his runway looks.

ITA.  I think Tim lost focus during Under The Gunn and is still in that mode.  He thought Asha should have won for Most Improved.  Heidi was the one saying in the finale that it's what's on the runway that matters.  She seems to have forgotten that.

Edited October 17, 2015 by backgroundnoise

[RemoteControlFreak]

This is from Mila Hermanowski's blog : "Contrary to popular belief, we Project Runway designers don't get paid a penny to compete on the show (people are always shocked to hear this; it's a question Iʼve been asked many times), and honestly it never really pays us anything back post-show either, except to hear that we've inspired people (which is nice and all but it doesnʼt pay the bills or help our businesses get off the ground)."

This is not exactly true.  The winner gets $100,000 plus other prizes and individual challenges sometimes include prizes. They also get free room and board while they are taping the show and travel to and from New York and other locations where the show is taped.  Plus free fabric and supplies to use in all of the challenges (sometimes worth more than others) and the opportunity to have their work worn by professional models and judged by top players in the fashion industry.

 

And for a few designers (Chloe Dao and Christian Siriano, to name a few), the show has provided a springboard for their career.  Maybe it didn't for Ms. Hermanowski, but that's not the fault of Project Runway.

 

I'm also pretty sure Ms. Hermanowski is getting paid to write that very same blog in which she claims the show doesn't pay them back after the show. If she's not getting paid for it, she's an idiot to do it.

Edited October 17, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[RCharter]

This is not exactly true.  The winner gets $100,000 plus other prizes and individual challenges sometimes include prizes. They also get free room and board while they are taping the show and travel to and from New York and other locations where the show is taped.  Plus free fabric and supplies to use in all of the challenges (sometimes worth more than others) and the opportunity to have their work worn by professional models and judged by top players in the fashion industry.

 

And for a few designers (Chloe Dao and Christian Siriano, to name a few), the show has provided a springboard for their career.  Maybe it didn't for Ms. Hermanowski, but that's not the fault of Project Runway.

 

I'm also pretty sure Ms. Hermanowski is getting paid to write that very same blog in which she claims the show doesn't pay them back after the show. If she's not getting paid for it, she's an idiot to do it.

To me, anything done primarily for the benefit of the show doesn't really count as payment to the designer.  In that vein, I don't think its really "payment" to give them room and board.  They need a central location to film them in the morning and at night.  And it would cost them additional money to actually try to track down designers at individual locations.  Since the show gets the benefit of them travelling to different locations I also can't see that as payment.  However, mileage will vary.  

 

But free fabric and supplies?  How is that payment to them?  Those are only for use on challenges for the show.  Its like saying I have a job, but part of my payment is the phone I use in the office to make office calls.  Or if I sew hats for work and part of my payment is the fabric for the hats.  I don't even see how that could possibly be considered payment.

 

They are paid by being judged?  That's done primarily for the show.  It would be like saying my quarterly work review is somehow payment.  Since the show depends on models walking the runway, I also don't see how it should be considered payment to the designer to have a model wearing their clothes.

 

I mean I understand the idea of "non-monetary" payment, but I think this may be stretching the concept a bit far.  Do they get exposure to a national audience, yes.  However, since they are given such a short time for complete a challenge that more of a liability than a payment.  I don't think many big name designers would want anyone to see what they would design and execute in a day, much less a national audience.

 

They do get payment if they get to the top six and get a collection that walks at NYFW.  That is actually a form of "non-monetary" payment, because if gives the designers exposure on a national stage after having a reasonable amount of time and a reasonable budget to create a collection that can really be well done and reflect their point of view.  But if you don't get to the top six, then its more than likely that given the time constraints what the world is going to see from you as a designer is going to be some piece of crap you threw together in less than a day.

 

Maybe they should have a Project Runway: Masters, the way they have a Top Chef: Masters.  But I highly doubt that any big name designer would want to have to design and execute a look in a day.

 

I am very surprised to hear that PR wouldn't at least given the designers a stipend.  I thought most reality competition shows did that.

[candall]

Maybe they should have a Project Runway: Masters, the way they have a Top Chef: Masters.  But I highly doubt that any big name designer would want to have to design and execute a look in a day.

Heeeeeee.  Fun idea, but can you imagine a "Master Designer" submitting his concepts for Tim's suggestions, let alone tearing around the Hallmark store snatching up envelope liners?  It is to laugh.

 

Top Chef is the perfect reference, though.  Now in its 200th season, it soldiers on with its original premise and people still love it.  They haven't felt the need to restrict the parameters to the point the judges are forced to poke around sub-par dishes and discuss potential.  True, the challenges have become wonkier and the first chef to go may be denied a chance to show his skill, but the whole group isn't consistently forced to produce crap.  Why can't Project Runway see this?

Edited October 17, 2015 by candall

[RemoteControlFreak]

But free fabric and supplies?  How is that payment to them?  Those are only for use on challenges for the show.  Its like saying I have a job, but part of my payment is the phone I use in the office to make office calls.  Or if I sew hats for work and part of my payment is the fabric for the hats.  I don't even see how that could possibly be considered payment.

The phone analogy is not valid.  The Project Runway analogy of a phone is the sewing machines they use.

 

They get sometimes hundreds of dollars worth of fabric to design a look with and access to the latest expensive technology like 3D printing. These are valuable free perks that help them hone their craft and they don't have to pay for it. I don't think there's been a single Project Runway contestant who lasted more than a few weeks who did not say that the show was worth it and helped them at the least improve their skills and in many cases grow their business.  

 

As for reality TV contestants getting a stipend. Why?  All their expenses are paid for. I think the practice of giving appearance fees died down after Richard Hatch went to jail.

 

Mila Hermanowksi's claim that "honestly it never really pays us anything back post-show either" is laughable when she's writing it in a blog she's paid to write precisely because she appeared on Project Runway.  If that's not post-show payback, what is?

 

And does she really think that had she not appeared on Project Runway, The Hollywood Reporter would have written up the fact that she was opening an online store?  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fash-track/project-runways-mila-hermanovski-launches-378053

 

I don't what she expected from competing in Project Runway? For a non-winner, she's made out pretty well. 

Edited October 18, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[RCharter]

The phone analogy is not valid.  The Project Runway analogy of a phone is the sewing machines they use.

 

They get sometimes hundreds of dollars worth of fabric to design a look with and access to the latest expensive technology like 3D printing. These are valuable free perks that help them hone their craft and they don't have to pay for it. I don't think there's been a single Project Runway contestant who lasted more than a few weeks who did not say that the show was worth it and helped them at the least improve their skills and in many cases grow their business.  

 

As for reality TV contestants getting a stipend. Why?  All their expenses are paid for. I think the practice of giving appearance fees died down after Richard Hatch went to jail.

 

Mila Hermanowksi's claim that "honestly it never really pays us anything back post-show either" is laughable when she's writing it in a blog she's paid to write precisely because she appeared on Project Runway.  If that's not post-show payback, what is?

 

And does she really think that had she not appeared on Project Runway, The Hollywood Reporter would have written up the fact that she was opening an online store?  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fash-track/project-runways-mila-hermanovski-launches-378053

 

I don't what she expected from competing in Project Runway? For a non-winner, she's made out pretty well. 

The analogy is on point, the fabric is the equivalent of the phones they use as well.  It is only used for the purposes of the show.  They need it to do their jobs and it is only to do their job.  The same way your work phone would only be for your job and nothing else.

 

It would be like me working at a job where I make hats and having the company try to claim that they paid me in the material used to make the hats for their company.  It just doesn't make any sort of sense.

 

The "free perks" you mention are for the sole purpose of the show.  The same way you benefit from not having to drive to your clients house and you can call them on the phone is the same way these "free perks" benefit the designer.  In that it is, at best, an incidental benefit, the primary benefit being for the show. And only the show.  The show decided that it would get more viewers by using newer technology as part of a challenge, any benefit to the designer is incidental.  

 

Again, it would be like me getting on the job training at work to learn how to do my job and the company claiming that I should pay them for the training.  Yes, perhaps I learned a new skill, but the primary benefit would be for my employer, and any benefit to me is completely incidental.

 

Reality TV contestants are giving way more than they are given, so yes, they should get a basic stipend.  And even legally, you couldn't hire an independent contractor and not pay them either.  If someone is working for you, you really should be paying them.  The designers are working for the show, and they should be paid.  Without the designers, there is no show, so they should be compensated for their time.

 

Just because a contestant has made out well doesn't mean that the show hasn't made out better and shouldn't be paying them.  If your argument is that Mila H shouldn't get paid because she has gotten a write up and a blog than conversely by your own logic a designer who hasn't gotten any further paid opportunities from the show should be paid.  Which means that you realize that the designers bring value to the show, for which they should get some level of compensation.  

[Mabinogia]

The problem with the work analogy is that this isn't a job. It is a competition. Most competitions you have to pay an entrance fee to participate so they are already ahead of the game. If they use the show right, they get far more than they give. They give a few weeks of their time. They get millions of potential clients seeing what they have to offer. They get potential industry connections they wouldn't get on their own, and if they make it far enough they get to show at Fashion Week for free which I would use to network my ass off.

 

If all Mila was looking for was a quick buck she should have gone on Big Brother. I think they get paid to humiliate themselves on TV. This kind of reality show is more about getting your work out there and meeting people who can help your career, not making money.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Reality TV contestants are giving way more than they are given, so yes, they should get a basic stipend.  And even legally, you couldn't hire an independent contractor and not pay them either.  If someone is working for you, you really should be paying them.  The designers are working for the show, and they should be paid.  Without the designers, there is no show, so they should be compensated for their time.

 

Just because a contestant has made out well doesn't mean that the show hasn't made out better and shouldn't be paying them.  If your argument is that Mila H shouldn't get paid because she has gotten a write up and a blog than conversely by your own logic a designer who hasn't gotten any further paid opportunities from the show should be paid.  Which means that you realize that the designers bring value to the show, for which they should get some level of compensation.  

I'm not sure how you're counting the giving vs. getting equation, but even accepting your assertion that the contestants "give more than they get," that's not a qualifier for getting paid.  All it means is they gave more than they got.  It doesn't mean they are owed anything for that. Obviously all the contestants on Project Runway thought the equation of what they give vs. what they get was balanced in their favor in some way or they wouldn't have auditioned.  No one held a gun to their head and forced them to audition for Project Runway.

 

And being an independent contractor isn't a requirement for payment either. Being an independent contractor simply means that a person (or a business) provides specific goods or services to someone or some organization without being an employee of that person or organization.  What the IC gets in return for providing the goods or services is up to the agreement they strike with the other party. It can be money or tangible goods or, in the case of Project Runway, the opportunity to participate in a televised game with the chance to win prizes.

 

Also, I never, ever said that Mila shouldn't get paid because she is writing a blog. I said that the fact that she is writing a blog disproves her claim that she hasn't gotten anything out of being on the show.  She got the opportunity to have a job writing a blog about Project Runway. So it's incredibly ironic that she would claim, while at work at the very job the show gave her, that the show gave her nothing.

Edited October 19, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[RCharter]

I'm not sure how you're counting the giving vs. getting equation, but even accepting your assertion that the contestants "give more than they get," that's not a qualifier for getting paid.  All it means is they gave more than they got.  It doesn't mean they are owed anything for that. Obviously all the contestants on Project Runway thought the equation of what they give vs. what they get was balanced in their favor in some way or they wouldn't have auditioned.  No one held a gun to their head and forced them to audition for Project Runway.

 

And being an independent contractor isn't a requirement for payment either. Being an independent contractor simply means that a person (or a business) provides specific goods or services to someone or some organization without being an employee of that person or organization.  What the IC gets in return for providing the goods or services is up to the agreement they strike with the other party.

 

in the case of Project Runway contestants, they provide participation in a televised game show and agree to follow the rules of the game.  In exchange Project Runway gives them the opportunity to compete and a chance to win prizes.  

 

Also, I never, ever said that Mila shouldn't get paid because she is writing a blog. I said that the fact that she is writing a blog disproves her claim that she hasn't gotten anything out of being on the show.  She got the opportunity to have a job writing a blog about Project Runway. So it's incredibly ironic that she would claim, while at work at the very job the show gave her, that the show gave her nothing.

Well part of your argument has been based on the fact that you felt that they are getting some level of just compensation through free fabric and press write ups.  However, even with that argument, the designers are still getting way more than they are given and for that reason they deserve compensation.  People deserve to get paid for the value they bring.  I don't feel its right for any job to simply take advantage because they can, to me that is a very sweatshop mentality.  But its a personal thing and mileage will vary.

 

What a designer thinks doesn't affect what I think, and I think that since they give more than get from the show that they should be compensated.  And I don't think "free fabric to make the designs for the show" counts as compensation.

 

The definition of in IC is "a natural person, business, or corporation that provides goods or services to another entity under terms specified in a contract or within a verbal agreement."  A contract is defined as "an agreement between two or more parties creating obligations that are enforceable at law."  Both sides must promise something that is legally recognized, so its not merely up to the two parties, it has to be something definable in order to be recognized at law.  Furthermore, a contract that is altogether one-sided can be struck down as being substantively unconscionable.  The "opportunity to compete for a prize" is questionable as an obligation enforceable under the law because it is so poorly defined.  What do you define the "opportunity to compete" as?  How is the "opportunity to compete" an obligation that can be enforced at law?  How is an opportunity an obligation at all?  Does it really stand if the producers are making the decision and you really don't have a chance?  The terms have to be clear and "an opportunity to complete to maybe win some prizes n'stuff" is not all that clear or defined.

 

I don't find Mila's claim ironic at all.  Her claim was that the show never paid them.   If I went to work for a factory making widgets, didn't get paid for making the widgets and then got another job writing about making widgets, I wouldn't say that the first factory somehow paid me or that it was okay for the first job not to pay me because I found a way to make money writing about making widgets.  That wouldn't make any sense to me.

Edited October 18, 2015 by RCharter

[FormerMod-a1]

Topic, please!

[sleepyjean]

I just read one of those fan fics about some intense sexual tension between Seth Aaron and Tim Gunn. And now I will never be able to forget it.I would do anything for the power to go back in time and stop myself from clicking on that link. For God's sake, the rest of you stay away! Do you hear me? STAY AWAY!

[Kareem]

Ack. Shoot me now. lol

[jrlr]

Tim's POV on the season (doesn't give anything away):

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/03/project-runway-tim-gunn-hated-season-14

[Frost]

He says much the same thing in the latest TV Guide - but takes it a step further in saying about the Project Runway Junior contestants "Frankly, if they were competing in Season 14, the juniors would have won everything."

[NewDigs]

I'm just glad he called out the judges.

I was amazed what the juniors were able to do last go-round! I didn't watch the whole thing, not really a kid person, but was amazed at what I did see.

[Julia]

And yet funnily it seems as if he worked really hard to have one of the best designers thrown off for laziness he now says that all the people with their designer clothes apparently displayed, which inexplicably seems to be a description which he's using for people in the final four other than Candice.

 

*koff*bullshit*koff* 

 

Tim's advice didn't help anybody, the judges made no sense, the wins were handed out as party favors, and there was no time to produce quality work. But sure, it was the quality of the contestants. Who were totally not chosen for reasons other than their quality. And he's flailing because he didn't get to take a walk on his Swapnil tantrum because Tim Gunn.

 

koff.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Julia

[backgroundnoise]

Tim and Heidi need to acknowledge the role they have played in the degeneration of the show, instead of blaming the designers.

[Kareem]

And yet funnily it seems as if he worked really hard to have one of the best designers thrown off for laziness he now says that all the people with their designer clothes apparently displayed, which inexplicably seems to be a description which he's using for people in the final four other than Candice.

*koff*bullshit*koff*

Tim's advice didn't help anybody, the judges made no sense, the wins were handed out as party favors, and there was no time to produce quality work. But sure, it was the quality of the contestants. Who were totally not chosen for reasons other than their quality. And he's flailing because he didn't get to take a walk on his Swapnil tantrum because Tim Gunn.

koff.

Need more than a like button for this.

[FineWashables]

Before everyone jumps on the I'm-so-over-Tim-Gunn-I-and-I'm-never-watching-Project-Runway-again bandwagon, here's an excerpt from his latest interview with the Huffington Post:

 

“There are large issues [with the Kardashians] for me, such as why? Why? But when it comes to fashion, I say to people all the time ‘If you want guidance in fashion, just consider this: If a Kardashian is wearing it, don’t.’ I think it’s vulgar."

 

Come on.  Who doesn't love him for that?

[snowblossom2]

And yet, Kardashians are known for wearing the very things Ashley had in her collection (separates that cover the naughty bits, and lace and skin everywhere else.

[Luciano]

^ Yeah, wouldn't want to reward anything that looks like something a Kardashian might wear...

[slothgirl]

I'd be really worried about going on this show now with Tim bashing the contestants after the fact. I don't care how lackluster they may have been... for him to go around saying they were is so UN-mentorly that I'd never trust him if I were a contestant now.

 

A mentor relationship works primarily because of trust in, and respect for, the mentor. It's bad enough when you can't even be sure the advice will be helpful or hurtful, but when you know the mentor might trash you in a more generalized personal way? I'd run like hell from that and never accept mentoring from someone who I knew might do that.

Edited November 13, 2015 by slothgirl

[Julia]

Tim Gunn is still singing his old song. If you take a look at his Facebook/Twitter page, he says the results were the fault of the judges and not because of producer manipulation.  Really?  I might have  a scrap of respect for him if he took any responsibility for the show instead of saying, "oh, such a bad season, not my fault; fault of the designers, not my fault; fault of the judges, but, oh, no, not my fault at all."  Sorry, it gets old.

 

But then he also told Swapnil he was acting out of concern and frustration over Swapnil's perceived lack of drive, while he told People that he had been lobbying the judges for weeks to auf Swapnil despite the clothes he produced because he thought it would impress the other contestants. So Tim? Not really as focused on being truthful as he might be.

 

As I'm fairly convinced that the judges have their marching orders from the production company, I doubt Tim's lobbying did anything but possibly speed Swapnil's scheduled aufing and let the crew know who to start catching negative footage of.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Julia

[Julia]

Don't forget that Gunn has become part of the production team.  No clean hands on this show.

 

Yeah, but I think Tim's the kind of producer whose agent got them a title in contract negotiations, not the kind who gets to make actual decisions.

[Julia]

He has influence.  I am not giving him the get away free card.  Just my opinion. 

 

Oh, no, you misunderstand my point. I absolutely think that Tim pissed and moaned about Swapnil in an attempt to get him aufed. I just think if they hadn't already planned to auf him it wouldn't have worked. As it is, I think he's setting his alarm for 5:30 so he can crow in time to take credit for the sunrise.

[PepperMonkey]

So guys... what is the deal with Lifetime cramming Timgunn down our throats, first with him being the mentor on PR Junior and NOW this Tim Gunn's Throwback Thursdays thing that I guess is moments from all the Lifetime seasons of the show????

 

I guess at least, we know there IS a god or goddess, since none of that is Under the Gunn.

 

At least he seems to be a much better mentor to the kids on Junior than he has been in the past four seasons of Original Recipe. Granted, some of the kids are more talented than some of the designers from the most recent season, but I H A T E D the way he badmouthed them after the season, when he contributed to how shitty the season was in the first place.

[RCharter]

I sincerely hope that PR Jr. is a great success and Tim Gunn can just leave regular PR for someone else to mentor.  Its unlikely that I'd ever watch a design show featuring special snowflake children acting precocious and cutting up for the camera....which means that I could watch regular PR without Tim Gunn.  Years ago, that would have devastated me, and now I feel like its the only way I would consider watching regular PR next year.

[Qoass]

 

Its unlikely that I'd ever watch a design show featuring special snowflake children acting precocious and cutting up for the camera....which means that I could watch regular PR

 

 

Oh, wait, by that description I thought you WERE talking about regular PR!