S10.E19: Baptism By Fire

[Duke2801]

 

I missed this somehow yesterday - it's too good! A toast of the méthode champenoise in your honor. *clink*

[hottesthw]

For me the difference is that Eddie PUT a ring on Tamra while Brooks didn't and I don't buy that Brooks didn't marry Vicki because of Briana. IMO, Vicki is smart enough now, after her divorce from Donn, to demand a prenup and I think/believe that is why Brooks did not ask her to marry him.

I don't think Vicki married Brooks because of her kids. Brooks wouldn't give a shit about a prenup. Vicki is so predictable all he had to do was keep the cards coming. When he wanted out he'd move on to the next one like he's supposedly done all his life. As for Eddie and Tamra I firmly believe that ring and wedding was all about Eddie wanting to be famous. He's gettin' his 15 minutes!

[zoeysmom]

Oh, I definitely agree that she wanted to keep the marriage. I also believed her when she said that she would be able to view things from the outside. I truly believed everything Shannon said last season. And thought it was shitty of Tamra to say that Shannon thought her marriage troubles would make great television. But, watching Shannon this season and seeing how even now she doesn't see that there was anything wrong with including her kids in this affair business on camera, I can't help but think that she really and truly thought the audience would be entertained by this and thus be great for ratings. I can't think of any other reason for her to put her kids through this. I just hate that Tamra's words which I had no problem discrediting last year are coming back to haunt when I think about how Shannon's story played out this year. And, I think it is very weird that Shannon buddies with Tamra knowing that Tamra said that about her last year - as well as all of the other stuff that Tamra did to her last year. 

 

ETA: I think this is a testament just how good Tamra is at not only manipulation but planting little seeds of doubt that will stay with not just the women on the show, but also the audience. 

Shannon's kids have never been in any scene where the affair was discussed. 

[MatildaMoody]

Shannon's kids have never been in any scene where the affair was discussed. 

Maybe not, but having David apologize to the kids for leaving and then telling the audience that it was her daughter that found the text messages from the mistress, as well as the other awkward scenes with her and David definitely involved them in the affair business on camera. The kids, as well as their friends and friends' parents all witnessed these inappropriate moments strung together with Shannon discussing her betrayal. That is what I mean when I say she involved her kids in this affair story line business. 

[Mannahatta]

 

I thought that was in reference to the Holocaust.  I don't think Heather was right to compare  "Never Forget" to the long held baptism ritual.  "never forget" reminds people to never forget what happened to all their ancestors and loved ones during WWII. Baptisms are about saving your soul. "Never Forget" is in reference to the Nazi genocides.

 

It's true that the expression "Never Forget" is associated with remembering the Holocaust. However, I suspect Heather meant it in a more general sense. After all, the need to collectively remember past persecution is a Jewish tradition that predates the Holocaust. Consider, for example, that the purpose of Passover is to commemorate the liberation of the Israelites from Egyptian slavery. And if you think of an adult baptism as a ritual that allows the believer to shed sins, forget the past, and look forward, then I think Heather's contrast has some convoluted logic to it.

 

Personally, aside from the fact that I'm not at all religious, I found the self-serving nature of Tamra's and Vicki's religiosity quite cringe worthy and offensive - yet so fascinating. It's like watching a Margaret Mead documentary about an isolated tribe of Narcissists.

 

[cherry slushie]

I am very confused by Shannon. I hate to say this but I think I may actually believe something Tamra said about her last year. I know! The world is definitely about to end if I believe anything Tamra says. But, last year, I remember Tamra saying that Shannon was only pretending to be upset about the gossip about her marriage. That once the cameras were off the sadness went away and Shannon would talk about what great TV it was. She said that Shannon even used the example of Tamra asking Simon for a divorce on camera and how marital problems seem to play really well on this show. Watching Shannon pimp out the state of her marriage this season has be thinking that maybe, just maybe Tamra wasn't lying about that. I can't remember if Tamra said this in an interview or one of her blogs, but does anyone else remember that?

 

They're all FOS.  But, yes, Shannon's vicious overreaction to Vicki asking her to stop grilling her about Brooks and asking for his medical records, then double overreaction to finding out Vicki told Bill and Ronda about David cheating (once again, they live in Chi-Town and are not part of OC society or anything OC for that matter), was so OTT, that I now think it was just really bad acting to prove her worth and keep her orange blossoming.

 

On the reality side of it, even though Tamra, Shannon, and Meghan did much worse things to her, she can't attack them because they don't give a shit about her (so instead she joined them), so it would get her nowhere, as we witnessed this season and last season.  Vicki, on the other hand, cared (at least a little) about her, so she was easy prey for Shannon.  I also wonder if a lot of that vicious anger toward Vicki is misplaced 'affair' anger.  She couldn't lash out at The Affair, so why not Vicki?

[Kiss my mutt]

Why couldn't Brooks work with cancer? I mean, I know a lot of people who have kept their jobs while undergoing treatment. It sucks, but people sometime have to.

[Former Nun]

She had twins soon after getting married.

 

 

So...the twins are ten...ten-ish.  She has another daughter who's thirteen.  Is that child from a previous marriage?

[zoeysmom]

Maybe not, but having David apologize to the kids for leaving and then telling the audience that it was her daughter that found the text messages from the mistress, as well as the other awkward scenes with her and David definitely involved them in the affair business on camera. The kids, as well as their friends and friends' parents all witnessed these inappropriate moments strung together with Shannon discussing her betrayal. That is what I mean when I say she involved her kids in this affair story line business. 

The kids were never in a conversation about the affair.  That seems to get lost.  The kids were involved because their dad was selfish and had an affair with a team mate's mom and David involved Stella.  There is no getting around what happened.  All the school knows about it.   We do not know if the affair issue was made mire difficult for the children by it being aired or less difficult.  It is not as if they are discussing Shannon having an inability to achieve orgasm or David being a cross-dresser.  It was actions by two people that became public.  It was an affair it involved someone the children knew. David cleaned up the double dipping comment.   Shannon has said the family sat down with a counselor and the children said they wanted to be part of the show-after the affair, knowing the affair would be part of the show.  I am wondering if it would have been better if Shannon said nothing and Heather, Vicki and Tamra sat around discussing it?   Or how unhappy Shannon should be or that she drinks to much and is a sad soul?  Or by denying it all together?  So now any and everyone can say Shannon did the wrong thing by having her children on the show, David did the wrong thing by not divorcing Shannon because she is a nag,  Shannon did the wrong thing by not divorcing David and she is using the show to public punish him and force him to stay with her (I don't get that one at all). 

[zoeysmom]

They're all FOS.  But, yes, Shannon's vicious overreaction to Vicki asking her to stop grilling her about Brooks and asking for his medical records, then double overreaction to finding out Vicki told Bill and Ronda about David cheating (once again, they live in Chi-Town and are not part of OC society or anything OC for that matter), was so OTT, that I now think it was just really bad acting to prove her worth and keep her orange blossoming.

 

On the reality side of it, even though Tamra, Shannon, and Meghan did much worse things to her, she can't attack them because they don't give a shit about her (so instead she joined them), so it would get her nowhere, as we witnessed this season and last season.  Vicki, on the other hand, cared (at least a little) about her, so she was easy prey for Shannon.  I also wonder if a lot of that vicious anger toward Vicki is misplaced 'affair' anger.  She couldn't lash out at The Affair, so why not Vicki?

Do you think it might have anything to do with how Rhonda delivered the message?  I think Rhonda overstepped and thought she could humiliate Shannon with the comment and get the upper hand.   Apparently, there was a lot of discussion about Shannon not holding Brooks hand at City of Hope and Shannon not being there for Brooks and Brooks chewing her out, and Vicki calling her nasty and walking out on Shannon twice and making up stories.  I hate to say it but the last thing a person coming out of being betrayed by an affair needs is a friend lying to them.  Shannon believes that Vicki put Rhonda up to it.  It is up to Vicki to HONESTLY explain the sequence of events.

[AnnA]

Do you think it might have anything to do with how Rhonda delivered the message?  I think Rhonda overstepped and thought she could humiliate Shannon with the comment and get the upper hand.   Apparently, there was a lot of discussion about Shannon not holding Brooks hand at City of Hope and Shannon not being there for Brooks and Brooks chewing her out, and Vicki calling her nasty and walking out on Shannon twice and making up stories.  I hate to say it but the last thing a person coming out of being betrayed by an affair needs is a friend lying to them.  Shannon believes that Vicki put Rhonda up to it.  It is up to Vicki to HONESTLY explain the sequence of events.

 

Vicki's comment about Shannon, "She got what she deserved" made me dislike Vicki even more than I did which I thought was impossible.

[MatildaMoody]

The kids were never in a conversation about the affair.  That seems to get lost.  The kids were involved because their dad was selfish and had an affair with a team mate's mom and David involved Stella.  There is no getting around what happened.  All the school knows about it.   We do not know if the affair issue was made mire difficult for the children by it being aired or less difficult.  It is not as if they are discussing Shannon having an inability to achieve orgasm or David being a cross-dresser.  It was actions by two people that became public.  It was an affair it involved someone the children knew. David cleaned up the double dipping comment.   Shannon has said the family sat down with a counselor and the children said they wanted to be part of the show-after the affair, knowing the affair would be part of the show.  I am wondering if it would have been better if Shannon said nothing and Heather, Vicki and Tamra sat around discussing it?   Or how unhappy Shannon should be or that she drinks to much and is a sad soul?  Or by denying it all together?  So now any and everyone can say Shannon did the wrong thing by having her children on the show, David did the wrong thing by not divorcing Shannon because she is a nag,  Shannon did the wrong thing by not divorcing David and she is using the show to public punish him and force him to stay with her (I don't get that one at all). 

I have agreed with you about the kids not having an on camera conversation about the affair. All I am saying is that Shannon involved her kids in a story line about her husband's affair, on camera. She did it without considering how the kids would be affected by this being played and discussed for years on television. And her last set of interviews have suggested that she doesn't think she did anything wrong by doing so. Shannon has every right to feel however she wants about the cheating. David can leave or stay and take whatever happens as a consequence. Shannon needs to accept the consequence of subjecting her children to this being played out on national television. How Shannon treats David - whether she is punishing him, or just trying to deal with it on camera - that is on Shannon. Subjecting her kids to her reactions and treatments with a major spotlight (Television) on it, is something that Shannon needs to own.

 

Nothing that I am saying means i believe that Shannon should not have said anything. I just think that her kids should not have been involved in any of it, especially any part that played out on television.

Edited October 15, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[lunastartron]

How did Shannon's behavior at or prior to the luncheon with Vicki constitute "a vicious overreaction"? She made an effort to address an inconsistency and rudeness on the part of Vicki and Brooks - after leveraging her personal relationships for their benefit, expending social capital in order to extend a gesture of assistance that they accepted, and vigorously defending Vicki to Meghan on multiple occasions - and Vicki cut her off, stonewalled, and tripped over herself to revise/retcon/ and disparage Shannon in talking heads because she couldn't respond to Shannon's ultimately reasonable question, which amounted to "why did Brooks blame his missed appointment on flat tires after agreeing to go?" Vicki aggressively lashed out at Shannon via text and Brooks did the same over the phone (and, like Vicki, is deflecting from and mischaracterizing the fact that he did not object to seeing Shannon's contact until he found himself unable to explain himself). At the finale party, Shannon did not attack or engage with Vicki until Billy took it upon himself to start peddling the bullshit and demonstrably untrue talking point that none of the women had supported Vicki during the trial (if working one's associates to procure an in with one of the most vaunted treatment centers in the country and, certainly, the SoCo area isn't "support," I don't know what is). If the Vickster wants people to stop blowing up on her ass, she should desist with her "poor me" insistence on playing the aggrieved victim in this context.

[cherry slushie]

Do you think it might have anything to do with how Rhonda delivered the message?  I think Rhonda overstepped and thought she could humiliate Shannon with the comment and get the upper hand.   Apparently, there was a lot of discussion about Shannon not holding Brooks hand at City of Hope and Shannon not being there for Brooks and Brooks chewing her out, and Vicki calling her nasty and walking out on Shannon twice and making up stories.  I hate to say it but the last thing a person coming out of being betrayed by an affair needs is a friend lying to them.  Shannon believes that Vicki put Rhonda up to it.  It is up to Vicki to HONESTLY explain the sequence of events.

 

Shannon was hating on Vicki before Rhonda (is it Ronda or Rhonda?  I keep seeing it as Ronda on gossip sites lol?) said that stupid shit to Shannon.  Yes, Vicki yelling at Shannon when Shannon was trying to tell her what Meghan was saying, then leaving the dinner, was not nice at all, and I totally felt for Shannon as she certainly had reasons to be upset about that.  

 

However, their lunch together I feel different about.  Vicki never yelled, and Shannon was being nasty (ie; not stopping and getting more aggressive the more Vicki asked her to stop), so, in a sense, they're both wrong.  I just don't understand why Shannon lets Meghan, Tamra and Heather get away with so much, while attacking Vicki for (IMO) so little (in comparison)?

[talula]

I hope there is room for me. I'll bring a nice bottle of wine.

Great thinking, we might as well enjoy ourselves, lol.

[Bebecat]

Shannon saying her marriage was in the best place ever, or whatever...was a little over the top.

[talula]

Oh, I definitely agree that she wanted to keep the marriage. I also believed her when she said that she would be able to view things from the outside. I truly believed everything Shannon said last season. And thought it was shitty of Tamra to say that Shannon thought her marriage troubles would make great television. But, watching Shannon this season and seeing how even now she doesn't see that there was anything wrong with including her kids in this affair business on camera, I can't help but think that she really and truly thought the audience would be entertained by this and thus be great for ratings. I can't think of any other reason for her to put her kids through this. I just hate that Tamra's words which I had no problem discrediting last year are coming back to haunt when I think about how Shannon's story played out this year. And, I think it is very weird that Shannon buddies with Tamra knowing that Tamra said that about her last year - as well as all of the other stuff that Tamra did to her last year. 

 

ETA: I think this is a testament just how good Tamra is at not only manipulation but planting little seeds of doubt that will stay with not just the women on the show, but also the audience.

Ditto to your post MatildaMoody...your so right about Tamrat and Shannon. Why parade those innocent girls front and center to save your marriage with a adulterous father. Truly a sick justification by a mother!?!

[Ubiquitous]

I wonder if Vicks is (was) defending Crooks to the hilt, and evading questions, and "away on business" during treatments because she could seriously lose her whole business if she is implicated in any kind of insurance fraud.

If Brooks lied, drew her in, and she panicked and went along with it just to save face thinking they'd just get out and no one would ever be the wiser, she could totally lose COTO Insurance. That's the one thing she loves more than Brianna, Brooks, and maybe even herself.

Vicki works ya know !!! ;-)

I wondered if that's why she was talking to her son about selling or giving her busniess to him.

[Almost 3000]

I'm sure she does and we just don't know about it because she has chosen not to film big parts of her life. BUT I do find it odd how little of an "outside the show" life Shannon seems to have. It could all just be the way she's filmed, but with most of the other women stuff seeps in. They mention an old job or that they used to live someplace else or random people are at their events or something. With Shannon there's just nothing. Things I know about Shannon from her on the show: She went to USC. She had twins soon after getting married. She goes to Dr Moon. David had an affair. That's it. There's other stuff I know from gossip sites and whatnot, but not from show Shannon. She really presents herself as having almost no life. No hobbies, no friends, no job, no extended family, no ambitions. Just her own brand of hypochondria and helicopter wife/mothering. I'm sure it's not completely accurate, but it's a weird image to project.

She went to cotillion, rode a horse into town to buy make-up, has vintage clothing designers made for her mom, plays Bunko monthly, has started charities, been a room mom at her girls' school and there have been girlfriends in the background of her parties. There is that odd blank time between college and her currant marriage though.

[zoeysmom]

I have agreed with you about the kids not having an on camera conversation about the affair. All I am saying is that Shannon involved her kids in a story line about her husband's affair, on camera. She did it without considering how the kids would be affected by this being played and discussed for years on television. And her last set of interviews have suggested that she doesn't think she did anything wrong by doing so. Shannon has every right to feel however she wants about the cheating. David can leave or stay and take whatever happens as a consequence. Shannon needs to accept the consequence of subjecting her children to this being played out on national television. How Shannon treats David - whether she is punishing him, or just trying to deal with it on camera - that is on Shannon. Subjecting her kids to her reactions and treatments with a major spotlight (Television) on it, is something that Shannon needs to own.

 

Nothing that I am saying means i believe that Shannon should not have said anything. I just think that her kids should not have been involved in any of it, especially any part that played out on television.

Except Shannon has been very thorough about the process she went through before her kids were exposed.  She did think about it, talk with counselors about and ultimately talk to her children about it.  So to pretend or assert she did it on a whim is misplaced.  One thing about Shannon is she researches things to death.  What consequences have the children suffered?  Maybe Heather (because their children attend the same school) come Monday will say Shannon's kids were stripped naked painted with honey and thrown into an ant hill and subsequently lynched.  There is a presumption they suffered.   Maybe an equally acceptable assumption is the kids had no harm and in fact garnered sympathy from their peers.

 

I think in Shannon's eyes it wasn't about the affair  it was about saving a marriage and a family.  I guess we can use Vicki's measure and see where the marriage is in five years.

She went to cotillion, rode a horse into town to buy make-up, has vintage clothing designers made for her mom, plays Bunko monthly, has started charities, been a room mom at her girls' school and there have been girlfriends in the background of her parties. There is that odd blank time between college and her currant marriage though.

No one has asked what she did.  I think first someone should ask before assuming her life was empty or suspect.

[Mannahatta]

 

[shannon] went to cotillion, rode a horse into town to buy make-up, has vintage clothing designers made for her mom, plays Bunko monthly, has started charities, been a room mom at her girls' school and there have been girlfriends in the background of her parties. There is that odd blank time between college and her current marriage though.

 

Maybe that's when she saved a nation.

[zoeysmom]

Shannon was hating on Vicki before Rhonda (is it Ronda or Rhonda?  I keep seeing it as Ronda on gossip sites lol?) said that stupid shit to Shannon.  Yes, Vicki yelling at Shannon when Shannon was trying to tell her what Meghan was saying, then leaving the dinner, was not nice at all, and I totally felt for Shannon as she certainly had reasons to be upset about that.  

 

However, their lunch together I feel different about.  Vicki never yelled, and Shannon was being nasty (ie; not stopping and getting more aggressive the more Vicki asked her to stop), so, in a sense, they're both wrong.  I just don't understand why Shannon lets Meghan, Tamra and Heather get away with so much, while attacking Vicki for (IMO) so little (in comparison)?

Simple answer Vicki was lying to her.  Vicki had her good friend Heather and Tamra say exactly the same thing as Shannon did-the difference with Shannon is Vicki threw out death and taxes. 

[zoeysmom]

Ditto to your post MatildaMoody...your so right about Tamrat and Shannon. Why parade those innocent girls front and center to save your marriage with a adulterous father. Truly a sick justification by a mother!?!

So Shannon should have pretended it never happened? Obviously David was willing to ditch wife and kids. The kids knew about it.  As a family they decided to move forward.  People recover from affairs everyday.  May not be your way but imagine for one minute your husband kicking your ass to the curb, taking all the revenue and your children away for 50% of the time.   Is that such a sick justification to work things out?  BTW  I am not wishing that on you by any means.

[WireWrap]

Simple answer Vicki was lying to her.  Vicki had her good friend Heather and Tamra say exactly the same thing as Shannon did-the difference with Shannon is Vicki threw out death and taxes. 

The other BIG difference was that Shannon made her talk with Vicki about herself and then about Brooks, whereas both Heather and Tamra made their respective talks with Vicki all about Vicki. When you have a "talk" with Vicki about anything questionable concerning her/Brooks behavior, one must remember to make Vicki sound/look like THE victim at all times or else you are no longer considered a friend! LOL

[cherry slushie]

Simple answer Vicki was lying to her.  Vicki had her good friend Heather and Tamra say exactly the same thing as Shannon did-the difference with Shannon is Vicki threw out death and taxes. 

No, no, no..none of these women are good friends, or even real friends.  In fact, I think RHoOC may be the most scripted and acted of all the franchises.

[breezy424]

Heather has historically been one of the most offensive cast members across the franchise to me but I found her surprisingly tolerable this season and cannot wait to see her and Shannon open up a can of whup-ass on Vicki together at the reunion. http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/vicki-gunvalson-admits-lying-brooks-ayers-rhoc-reunion-20151410

Thanks for the link.  Looks like it's going to be good....or it's another Bravo editing manipulation.  Hoping for the former. 

[zoeysmom]

The other BIG difference was that Shannon made her talk with Vicki about herself and then about Brooks, whereas both Heather and Tamra made their respective talks with Vicki all about Vicki. When you have a "talk" with Vicki about anything questionable concerning her/Brooks behavior, one must remember to make Vicki sound/look like THE victim at all times or else you are no longer considered a friend! LOL

And all three were stonewalled.

[FozzyBear]

No one has asked what she did. I think first someone should ask before assuming her life was empty or suspect.

I was the original poster and I actually said twice in my post that I'm pretty sure this is the way she presents herself on TV, not the reality of her life. I said I thought the persona was odd, not that I thought it was accurate.

[zoeysmom]

I was the original poster and I actually said twice in my post that I'm pretty sure this is the way she presents herself on TV, not the reality of her life. I said I thought the persona was odd, not that I thought it was accurate.

I think I might send a tweet asking for a CV.

[talula]

So Shannon should have pretended it never happened? Obviously David was willing to ditch wife and kids. The kids knew about it.  As a family they decided to move forward.  People recover from affairs everyday.  May not be your way but imagine for one minute your husband kicking your ass to the curb, taking all the revenue and your children away for 50% of the time.   Is that such a sick justification to work things out?  BTW  I am not wishing that on you by any means.

I have no problem with David and Shannon working out the aftermath of his adultry on Reality TV. My post was against their choice to include their young children on their Reality TV show to assist. Hopefully next year we'll all get a break from Shannon and David's marriage infidelity.

[DebbieM4]

No, telling a cast mate who happens to be your friend off camera as well does NOT mean that it will be a subject/topic for/on the show. Lisa/Ken's lawsuit was very, very public knowledge yet not 1 of her fellow cast members talked about it ON camera, the same with Brandi's public display caught by the tabloids on camera. If you, the HW, do not talk about it, introduce the subject, on camera, the others usually do not. No one mentioned David's affair last season ON camera even though Shannon talked about their ongoing maritial problems all season long, so we know that even the OC women know not to cross that line. Vicki and Brooks made the decision to use his cancer as her main storyline for this season even though they did not have to.

 

No, they did not make the decision to use it as Vicki's main story line.  They decided to talk about it.  There's a big difference.  None of the HW's get to decide what will or will not be the story lines (main or otherwise) that we actually end up seeing.  The potential is there for all of that to go in many different directions.  Production/editing decides what they think makes compelling TV and they leave a lot on the cutting room floor.  What's left is what we see, but we are seeing far, far less than what was filmed.

 

The HW's themselves are often surprised at what's included, what's left out, what's made into a big deal, and what's barely shown at all.   Sometimes things that seemed major to them have been edited out, and small things have been made the focus.  Lots of potential story lines are filmed, not just what ultimately makes it to air.  The HW's contracts obligate them to film at various times in various situations, and to relinquish all control over what is ultimately shown and how it is edited.  Vicki's main story line easily could have involved Briana.  Or coping with her mother's death.  Or something else.

 

 Vicki & Brooks may or may not have wanted his cancer to be a big story line, but - as they well know - they had absolutely no say in whether that happened or not.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

Child support does not stop if a parent is sick. Spinning a fake cancer story may, perhaps, keep his sorry ass out of jail if he was getting too far behind. Maybe he was hoping to garner sympathy from the courts if the cancer plot line had gone as planned.

 

The courts are not sympathetic to anyone who says they have cancer unless they have solid documentation.  And even then, it's not an easy excuse.  Faking cancer gets no one anywhere in the court system - other than possibly being in more trouble than they were to begin with.  No court simply takes someone's word for it.  

 

I'm not saying Brooks does/did/didn't/doesn't have cancer.  I have no idea.   But Meghan was grasping at straws when she talked about avoiding child support as a possible motive.

[DebbieM4]

Maybe not, but having David apologize to the kids for leaving and then telling the audience that it was her daughter that found the text messages from the mistress, as well as the other awkward scenes with her and David definitely involved them in the affair business on camera. The kids, as well as their friends and friends' parents all witnessed these inappropriate moments strung together with Shannon discussing her betrayal. That is what I mean when I say she involved her kids in this affair story line business. 

 

You're absolutely right.  At the time of filming, those kids definitely seemed to know far more than young children should know and they were much too involved.  It seemed to me that they knew exactly what had happened.  And if not, then they certainly know now.  Shannon has had no problem reminding us over & over & over, and it's all over social media, the internet, and probably their childrens' schools, soccer team, homes of their friends, etc. too.

 

Of course they had to work through it as a family.  Obviously, Daddy moving out and Mommy being distraught is something that had to be explained to them (in a way they could understand, with age-appropriate details only).  And family counseling or whatever else.  But all of that should have been done privately and should have been kept that way.  And Shannon should have kept her children in mind when she went so public - over & over & over - with how much David had hurt her and the details of his affair.

 

If I was on a reality show, I would limit the involvement of my children.  And in the case of a family crisis such as this, I would be extremely protective of them and not allow any filming with my children that was even remotely connected to the affair.  Even if it cost me my job.  (And especially if I had Shannon's money to begin with!)  And I would absolutely not constantly be giving details on national television about their father's affair, and how horribly he treated me.  If she's so concerned about her family & keeping them all together, as she claims to be, they need to work all of that out off-camera.  I have no patience for one parent bashing the other in front of their children, and even less for someone who does it so relentlessly on national television.  Interspersed with footage of their kids talking about tension because Daddy was bad and Mommy is sad, and trying to make their parents like each other again

Edited October 15, 2015 by DebbieM4

[talula]

Wowsa--From Tamra's Blog

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-10/blogs/tamra-judge/tamra-the-truth-always-comes-out

As far as I am concerned I am not the backstabber or the bad friend Vicki, YOU ARE! There is nothing worse than covering for a man that is lying about something as serious as cancer and especially to the extent it was taken too. I know you guys didn't hear all the inconsistent stories that we heard, but you did get to hear this doozy: "Brooks was so sick after chemo that Vicki called Terry Dubrow and he sent over a doctor to administer an IV." She told that to Briana and to Shannon back in October before we even started filming. So does that mean Vicki knew Brooks was lying about having cancer before we even started filming? Are they both in on it? You will have to wait until the three-part reunion for those answers.

All year I was there to support Vicki, even though I thought in the back of mind something didn't add up. I constantly called and texted checking up on her, even following the filming of the reunion a few weeks ago. But after everything that’'s happened and hearing her say on WWHL Monday night that "none of us were there for her" for the second time, I have decided to cut Vicki from my life. I just can't do this anymore, it's emotionally exhausting and I don't trust her. All I wanted was to be there for her and everyone in my life warned me (even my husband) that Vicki is out for one person and one person only and that is...VICKI GUNVALSON!

I wish her a blessed life, I just don't choose to be in her life right now.

Tamra Judge

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don't think Vicki married Brooks because of her kids. Brooks wouldn't give a shit about a prenup. Vicki is so predictable all he had to do was keep the cards coming. When he wanted out he'd move on to the next one like he's supposedly done all his life. As for Eddie and Tamra I firmly believe that ring and wedding was all about Eddie wanting to be famous. He's gettin' his 15 minutes!

 

I am puzzled by Eddie.  I mean it.  I'm truly puzzled by him.  Honestly, I've always thought of him as a gay man.  I still can't shake that feeling.  Could it be his concentration so much on his body & keeping fit?  Maybe.  There really ain't too many straight men over 40 doing that.  OK, maybe somewhere there are some straight guys over 40 going nuts working out & maybe Eddie is one of 'em.  Kinda doubt it.  Idk, to me, it's his hair that's the dead give-away.  Have we ever seen Eddie when his hair wasn't done up & fussed over as much as any of the broads on here?  Well, yeah, one time -- in Tams' fake sex video, from earlier in the season, when I almost didn't recognize Eddie cuz his hair wasn't done up.

 

And yet, I believe Tams when she says Eddie is running CUT Fitness for her.  So Eddie is definitely not the lazy bum that Crooks (and Slade) is.  He does work & he seems responsible.  For that reason alone, I'm OK with Eddie.  And he's clearly not into Tams.  I like him for that too.  Er, so why is this possibly gay man wasting his time being married to Tams?  Cuz he's getting his share of reality TV fame?  Maybe.  It could be the Bravo dough too.  I suspect by now he must make decent money.

 

I was watching Eddie in this ep.  He didn't say much or even react much.  He looked totally indifferent to Tams' latest nonsense.  Eh, I guess his reaction would be the same, whatever Tams' latest shtick she (or Satan Andy or his scriptwriters/producers) creates for Tams to desperately entertain us.

 

Man, Gretchen being all sympathetic to Vicks (& tweeting her when she was on WWHL) made me go WTF.  I didn't get it then.  Now I get it.  Gretchie-poo is desperately trying to get back on the show & she's hoping Satan Andy is gonna take the bait with this strategy of hers.  Since Vicks has nobody in the cast to talk to now, Gretch thinks she can position herself as Vicks' new best palsy-walsy.  Um, no, dopey Gretchen -- I wouldn't believe you & Vicks as friends at all.  Nobody would.  NOT.  FOR.  A.  SECOND.  Be gone, Gretchie-poo.

 

Now, would Satan Andy take the bait from Gretchie & consider bringing her back?  Nah, I don't think so.  I suspect the reason he had her on WWHL recently was to sorta audition her, in consideration of bringing her back.  She failed miserably.  She was still bullshitting the same old bullshit that got her fired before.  Boring, boring, boring.  OK then, Gretch & Slade are gonna get married & have a kid.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, Gretchie, peddle it somewhere else, hun.  Looks like Vicks is gonna have to find an ally elsewhere.  Cuz Gretchie-poo ain't gonna be it.

 

I kinda liked seeing Tammy again.  Sure, I know Tammy & Lynne Curtain appeared in different seasons & may not even know each other, but I still expected them to bond over having such useless/whiny/loser daughters.

Edited October 15, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Pollock]

Shannon saying her marriage was in the best place ever, or whatever...was a little over the top.

If RH history taught us anything, you just know it's going to bite her where the enema goes to die when they'll divorce in a year or two.

At this point, I just hope we will not watch yet another renewal whatever before that.

[cherry slushie]

Wowsa--From Tamra's Blog

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-10/blogs/tamra-judge/tamra-the-truth-always-comes-out

As far as I am concerned I am not the backstabber or the bad friend Vicki, YOU ARE! There is nothing worse than covering for a man that is lying about something as serious as cancer and especially to the extent it was taken too. I know you guys didn't hear all the inconsistent stories that we heard, but you did get to hear this doozy: "Brooks was so sick after chemo that Vicki called Terry Dubrow and he sent over a doctor to administer an IV." She told that to Briana and to Shannon back in October before we even started filming. So does that mean Vicki knew Brooks was lying about having cancer before we even started filming? Are they both in on it? You will have to wait until the three-part reunion for those answers.

All year I was there to support Vicki, even though I thought in the back of mind something didn't add up. I constantly called and texted checking up on her, even following the filming of the reunion a few weeks ago. But after everything that’'s happened and hearing her say on WWHL Monday night that "none of us were there for her" for the second time, I have decided to cut Vicki from my life. I just can't do this anymore, it's emotionally exhausting and I don't trust her. All I wanted was to be there for her and everyone in my life warned me (even my husband) that Vicki is out for one person and one person only and that is...VICKI GUNVALSON!

I wish her a blessed life, I just don't choose to be in her life right now.

Tamra Judge

 

Ha ha, as if she was ever Vicki's friend?  Vicki's a goner because Tamra won't film with her, and neither will Meghan, Shannon, and Heather. Now Tamra will be the OG of the OC - exactly how she's wanted it for years.  Also; this:

 

As you witnessed, Meghan even tried to bring Vicki into the group conversation. All the ladies told me they had no intention of bringing up Brooks, everyone was OVER IT! It was Billy (Vicki's brother) that brought up Brooks, then it became a topic of conversation that got ugly fast

 

Looks like the Baptism hasn't changed her.  Does she really expect us to believe this lie?  Meghan tried to bring her into the conversation so they could start questioning her, and they were all discussing it before Billy said anything.

 

UGH.  They're all so gross.

Edited October 15, 2015 by cherry slushie

[Bebecat]

I can't make out Eddie or his motives for marrying Tamra either. He does not seem overly anxious to be on camera to me, or to get his "face time" or whatever. Was it just a need for money? A hope for a gym of his own? I really don't get it. Nothing seems worth the price of being with Tamra to me. But to each his own, I guess. If not for his being married to Tamra, he seems relatively sane, Imo.

I really do think Icky is the worst person on TV right now lol. And not in a way that makes me want to see more. Just want her gone from my screen.

[WireWrap]

No, they did not make the decision to use it as Vicki's main story line.  They decided to talk about it.  There's a big difference.  None of the HW's get to decide what will or will not be the story lines (main or otherwise) that we actually end up seeing.  The potential is there for all of that to go in many different directions.  Production/editing decides what they think makes compelling TV and they leave a lot on the cutting room floor.  What's left is what we see, but we are seeing far, far less than what was filmed.

 

The HW's themselves are often surprised at what's included, what's left out, what's made into a big deal, and what's barely shown at all.   Sometimes things that seemed major to them have been edited out, and small things have been made the focus.  Lots of potential story lines are filmed, not just what ultimately makes it to air.  The HW's contracts obligate them to film at various times in various situations, and to relinquish all control over what is ultimately shown and how it is edited.  Vicki's main story line easily could have involved Briana.  Or coping with her mother's death.  Or something else.

 

 Vicki & Brooks may or may not have wanted his cancer to be a big story line, but - as they well know - they had absolutely no say in whether that happened or not.  

Vicki is a vet, after all she is the OG of the entire franchise, and knows what it takes to keep the cameras on her. Briana lives out of state, has 2 small kids, works 2 different jobs and has a husband, so she can not film enough to give Vicki a storyline. Michael doesn't seem to want to be around his mother enough to film more than 1 short scene. As for her mothers unexpected death, again, her mother lived out of state and I don't think, other than Billy, that the rest of Vicki siblings have an interest in filming. SO that leaves her relationship with Brooks and other than the fact he was now living with her, what else did she have? IMO, this is why they told different stories to each of the other HWs, it kept the cameras on her/them, thus giving her a storyline for this season.

[Satchels of gold]

The two things that I loved about Vicki have been thrown out the window this season.

1. I loved her " I don't need no man to go on vacation " attitude. She didn't seem at all dependent on Donne and I felt she was an independent woman. Making her own money and livin the life.

2. Even in all of its dysfunctional glory I always thought that she was a fierce mamma bear with her kids. A quality that seemed to be lacking in the other OC wives.

Wow was I wrong. I think all of those solo vacays were for her to get her groove on or to hook up with Brookes. And now that he's gone she wants Donne back? Wtf? She can't be without a man for a hot minute? Wow that's not who I thought she was.

When confronted by Tamra she threw her precious Brianna (her reason for living...blah,blah, blah) under the bus faster then a hallmark moment.

It also irked me that she stated that she "gave" Donne (Don?) the river house. She didn't give him anything there was a division of assets and that was his share. I don't think Donne is going around saying he "gave" her the Coto house.

[zoeysmom]

Wowsa--From Tamra's Blog

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-10/blogs/tamra-judge/tamra-the-truth-always-comes-out

As far as I am concerned I am not the backstabber or the bad friend Vicki, YOU ARE! There is nothing worse than covering for a man that is lying about something as serious as cancer and especially to the extent it was taken too. I know you guys didn't hear all the inconsistent stories that we heard, but you did get to hear this doozy: "Brooks was so sick after chemo that Vicki called Terry Dubrow and he sent over a doctor to administer an IV." She told that to Briana and to Shannon back in October before we even started filming. So does that mean Vicki knew Brooks was lying about having cancer before we even started filming? Are they both in on it? You will have to wait until the three-part reunion for those answers.

All year I was there to support Vicki, even though I thought in the back of mind something didn't add up. I constantly called and texted checking up on her, even following the filming of the reunion a few weeks ago. But after everything that’'s happened and hearing her say on WWHL Monday night that "none of us were there for her" for the second time, I have decided to cut Vicki from my life. I just can't do this anymore, it's emotionally exhausting and I don't trust her. All I wanted was to be there for her and everyone in my life warned me (even my husband) that Vicki is out for one person and one person only and that is...VICKI GUNVALSON!

I wish her a blessed life, I just don't choose to be in her life right now.

Tamra Judge

Thank you Talula for bringing this over.  I knew Vicki was in for some backlash when she said no one reached out.  Tamra had just been on and said she talked to Vicki everyday and Vicki was distraught over Brooks dumping her. 

 

As to Vicki's thespian's skills, the other night on WWHL, she was blindfolded and given different foods to lick.  The first was anchovy, she made her ick, gag reflex and then claimed she hated fish and never ate it.  We see her order a salad and a piece of fish.  It is not the particular misrepresentation is serious it just showed how quickly and with what ease Vicki misrepresents herself.  I use to think it was fourth wall stuff but I think it is a lifelong habit.  I still question if she was going to bring her mom out for a month-seems like an odd thing to do when she would be going to Tahiti.  It must be hard for her children. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by zoeysmom

[MatildaMoody]

So Shannon should have pretended it never happened? Obviously David was willing to ditch wife and kids. The kids knew about it.  As a family they decided to move forward.  People recover from affairs everyday.  May not be your way but imagine for one minute your husband kicking your ass to the curb, taking all the revenue and your children away for 50% of the time.   Is that such a sick justification to work things out?  BTW  I am not wishing that on you by any means.

 

Again, I have never said or intimated that she should pretend it never happened. I only think that Shannon should not have included her children if they wanted to work this out on television. It was short sighted and she continues to not see that there was something inherently harmful to her girls by doing including them in something this private so publicly.

[ButterQueen]

Wowsa--From Tamra's Bloghttp://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-10/blogs/tamra-judge/tamra-the-truth-always-comes-outAs far as I am concerned I am not the backstabber or the bad friend Vicki, YOU ARE! There is nothing worse than covering for a man that is lying about something as serious as cancer and especially to the extent it was taken too. I know you guys didn't hear all the inconsistent stories that we heard, but you did get to hear this doozy: "Brooks was so sick after chemo that Vicki called Terry Dubrow and he sent over a doctor to administer an IV." She told that to Briana and to Shannon back in October before we even started filming. So does that mean Vicki knew Brooks was lying about having cancer before we even started filming? Are they both in on it? You will have to wait until the three-part reunion for those answers.

All year I was there to support Vicki, even though I thought in the back of mind something didn't add up. I constantly called and texted checking up on her, even following the filming of the reunion a few weeks ago. But after everything that’'s happened and hearing her say on WWHL Monday night that "none of us were there for her" for the second time, I have decided to cut Vicki from my life. I just can't do this anymore, it's emotionally exhausting and I don't trust her. All I wanted was to be there for her and everyone in my life warned me (even my husband) that Vicki is out for one person and one person only and that is...VICKI GUNVALSON!

I wish her a blessed life, I just don't choose to be in her life right now.

Tamra Judge

Tamra is delusional. Pot.Kettle.

[parisprincess]

As you witnessed, Meghan even tried to bring Vicki into the group conversation. All the ladies told me they had no intention of bringing up Brooks, everyone was OVER IT! It was Billy (Vicki's brother) that brought up Brooks, then it became a topic of conversation that got ugly fast

Looks like the Baptism hasn't changed her.  Does she really expect us to believe this lie?  Meghan tried to bring her into the conversation so they could start questioning her, and they were all discussing it before Billy said anything.

 

So Billy was the one who brought up Brooks, yet “they were all discussing it before Billy said anything.”  Then they tried to lure Vicki to join them so they could grill her.  I’m surprised they didn’t try to find an empty room and put a chair with a bare light bulb above so they could do their interrogation without any distractions.

 

Yeah, Tamra, everyone was over it.  That’s why they talked about nothing else from the time they convened their little coven.  The baptism and washing away of sins was a waste of time on Tammy; she’ll never change.

Edited October 15, 2015 by parisprincess

[talula]

Thank you Talula for bringing this over. I knew Vicki was in for some backlash when she said no one reached out. Tamra had just been on and said she talked to Vicki everyday and Vicki was distraught over Brooks dumping her.

As to Vicki's thespian's skills, the other night on WWHL, she was blindfolded and given different foods to lick. The first was anchovy, she made her ick, gag reflex and then claimed she hated fish and never ate it. We see her order a salad and a piece of fish. It is not the particular misrepresentation is serious it just showed how quickly and with what ease Vicki misrepresents herself. I use to think it was third wall stuff but I think it is a lifelong habit. I still question if she was going to bring her mom out for a month-seems like an odd thing to do when she would be going to Tahiti. It must be hard for her children.

Unfortunately Vicki's pathological lies were the star of this season's RHOC. IMO, wanting others to accept her choice of a deeply flawed and disturbed partner drove her over the edge. Her maniacal need for a man in her life made her so codependent on Brooks that she threw her daughter under the bus numerous times trying to defend him. The daughter she professed to love more than life itself.

I believe I witnessed the temporary insanity of a woman whose out of touch with reality. A woman whose prime residence is behind the looking glass. Does she realize how her actions have caused others to distance themselves from her...probably not? If she's back next season her storyline might be how she redeems herself with her coworkers.

Edited October 15, 2015 by talula

[pamme64]

When Heather said that there was nothing analogous to Tamra's baptism in the Jewish tradition, I immediately thought of the mikveh bath and also the practice of asking for forgiveness before the new year.

 

Curious, is Heather a convert?

ETA: Nope, she isn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Dubrow

 

 

I was thinking about this, (slightly deep thoughts), a mikvah is not a cleansing of sin or a new commitment to G-d.  Mikvah is to clean the body, mind and soul of everyday impurities (like after menses, or going to a funeral).  It's supposed to be once a month (for obvious reasons), but not for removing sin and not for bringing anyone closer to their deity.  Sins can be discussed and removed (after asking those in your life to forgive you for what you think you did or might have done), on Yom Kippur, (day when the Book of Life is opened and one is judged by their G-d).  

 

I wasn't going to hit reply, it's too much religion, but I thought someone might be interested.  If it's too much, please just ignore.  Thanks. 

[DeeplyShallow]

I just want to go on record and say how much I hate Vicki's "diamond" necklace and earrring combo. I think she brought those suckers out a couple of seasons ago, maybe when she was shilling Vicki's Diamonds? There's a "ruby" pendant with matching earrings and then the yellow pendant with earrings she wore in the finale (she wore them before too, can't quite remember when). Anyway, I think they're ugly and tacky. Like Vicki.

I just needed to say it. Carry on.

[RedHawk]

A moment I don't think anyone has mentioned from WWHL: Andy and Vicki were discussing Tamra's misuse of the word "pasture" and how Vicki tried to correct her but Tamra didn't pay attention. So Andy says to Vicki, "It's 'pastor' with 'er', right?" and Vicki with great confidence said, "Yes, 'er'."

Sigh.

[zoeysmom]

Again, I have never said or intimated that she should pretend it never happened. I only think that Shannon should not have included her children if they wanted to work this out on television. It was short sighted and she continues to not see that there was something inherently harmful to her girls by doing including them in something this private so publicly.

You can't have it both ways.  You can't be on a reality show and say -we are working on it.  What we would have seen is the golf cart scene, the really bad birthday dinner,  David eating chips and the stupid enema business.  Viewers would call BS. It just would not tell the story.  I think the mistake Shannon made was not discussing it earlier with Heather, Vicki and Tamra. To me it would have been more interesting to have the four of the discuss infidelity and marriage and their views on trying to rebuild a marriage.  To me, it sounds like they would have had their support.  It would seem contrived that privately they worked everything out.  I think far more viewers would relate to trouble in a marriage than dealing with a sometimes friend and her boyfriend's alleged cancer.   

 

I guess I don't see where it is inherently harmful to the kids anymore than being on a reality show in general.  If one were to say beauty pageants for kids (ala Jon Benet Ramsey) were inherently harmful to the children it would be the speaker's opinion as clearly not all children who participate in beauty pageants are harmed.    The harm was dad having the affair, leaving and dad sending the ring back in.  I don't see how talking about it-and the kids are not involved in the conversation-is worse than the events.  Inherently harmful implies that there was no thought or reasoned professionals they sought out, which they did said it was harmful. Evidence to the contrary was presented the family sought counseling and agree to film.  There are two ick factors that came out on the show, the first being the woman befriended Shannon and the second being that David intimately  celebrated Shannon's birthday and then sought out the other woman.  The sending the ring back in was not part of the show. Perhaps what bothers some is the kids have been put in the position they are part of the repair process and it isn't  always pleasant. I would like to think as a parent the last thing I want my kids thinking or talking about is if mom and dad can work things out and stay together.

[ParkCirclegirl]

I just want to go on record and say how much I hate Vicki's "diamond" necklace and earrring combo. I think she brought those suckers out a couple of seasons ago, maybe when she was shilling Vicki's Diamonds? There's a "ruby" pendant with matching earrings and then the yellow pendant with earrings she wore in the finale (she wore them before too, can't quite remember when). Anyway, I think they're ugly and tacky. Like Vicki.

I just needed to say it. Carry on.

Her jewelry looks like prom jewelry...I always thought it was on the ticky tacky side.