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M*A*S*H - General Discussion


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1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I have to admit that whenever I see MASH come up as having new posts, my stomach drops and I think about Alan Alda as I open the thread.  My heart will be broken when the new post actually means what I am always worried it means.

ITA. I feel the same way on the Andy Griffith notifications. Just never know if a new post is a death announcement. Not necessarily about Alda (I am not sure of his current  health status) given the large cast of  visiting/ recurring actors and the 1st run  length of the show.

Given both shows are still heavily in the rerun circuit,  there is plenty to talk about as we now view with a different lens. Not sure why my 1st thought is always "who passed now"...😢

12 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I have to admit that whenever I see MASH come up as having new posts, my stomach drops and I think about Alan Alda as I open the thread.  My heart will be broken when the new post actually means what I am always worried it means.

I'm right there with ya. He's one of my all-time favorite people.

In this particular case, we just had the passing of Ned Beatty who did a memorable guest turn as a visiting colonel. I assumed someone was mentioning that great performance. I always remember his parting "Via con Dios!"

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(edited)

FYI: on another show thread , the discussion was about comedies and how characters (actors) do/do not evolve over time.  I asked the question -  What is the difference in a comedy and a sitcom?

 Reason I ask is there will be a special on CNN about the history of sitcoms on CNN 7/11/21 @ 9 pm EST. The little preview had actors ( mostly from current mainstream) singing a few bars from the opening theme song.   I was mostly surprised to see a couple of actors  ( from other sitcoms/comedies) still alive-at least when they filmed the special. The thread I brought this up definitely has a recognizable opening song.

MASH seems to have made the cut. Below is the nice ad for the above mentioned upcoming special. there are a couple of characters in the image I don't recall {man in the black and white sweater; right side} - yet. 😃

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Edited by sATL
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1 hour ago, sATL said:

Below is the nice ad for the above mentioned upcoming special. there are a couple of characters in the image I don't recall {man in the black and white sweater; right side} - yet. 

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Looks to me like David of Schitt's Creek. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong though.

I would call M*A*S*H a comedy but not a sitcom. That said, "sitcom" is just the blanket way of referring to comedies on TV, especially back in the '70s. M*A*S*H was breaking the mold by mixing a lot of drama in with the laughs. Hearing it called a sitcom doesn't bother me, but later on the word "dramedy" came along, and that fits better.

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(edited)

" The Firesight Saga" is on..klinger accidentally  sits on Potter's  glasses,  after he reads a letter from Radar. Spare specs are  also broken.  Eye Dr and replacement lenses are a couple days transaction...just what was Potter supposed to do if he had to do surgery? Overload the other Drs? He seems to wear glasses most of the time- not just for reading/close eye work.

Edited by sATL
On 7/6/2021 at 4:50 PM, sATL said:

" The Firesight Saga" is on..klinger accidentally  sits on Potter's  glasses,  after he reads a letter from Radar. Spare specs are  also broken.  Eye Dr and replacement lenses are a couple days transaction...just what was Potter supposed to do if he had to do surgery? Overload the other Drs? He seems to wear glasses most of the time- not just for reading/close eye work.

Yes, he was Army it would have been no different if he was wounded in the line of duty or fell ill but not requiring evacuation. Other doctors and perhaps a replacement would be assigned to his duties until he was able to resume them.  It was just the nature of selective service that doctors were more likely to need corrective lenses than fighter pilots.

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On 7/5/2021 at 11:12 AM, sATL said:

 

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Sorry its taken me a while to update on this post. MASH was featured on episode 4 airing on 7/25 "working for laughs". This has been a great series. I guess I suddenly realized how much tv I have watched in my life...

Good to see those who are still with us... sad to see those who have passed on. 

.some of the clips of the shows - still, after all these years,  make a person laugh (WKRP - its raining turkeys 🤣), or cry (ie when Radar announces what happened to Henry's plane, BJ's rocks spelling out "Goodbye" 😥)

The eposide talks about the shows in timeline (air date) order. The shows that were featured were (which will bring back old and new memories - I hope 😃) were :

I Love Lucy ( working at a conveyor belt, always trying to get a job), Father Knows Best, Dick Van Dyke Show, My Three Sons, Andy Griffith Show, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show, MASH, Barney Miller, Taxi,  WKRP in Cincinnati, Who's the Boss, Family Ties, Kate & Allie, Designing Women, Murphy Brown, The Office, The Larry Sanders Show, Scrubs, The Office (UK), 30 Rock, Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 99, VEEP, Mr. Mayor, Ted Lasso

There were actors speaking about something whose show/name I might have missed.

Here is the episode list  ( link ) , so MASH just might be featured again - many shows do fit into more than one episode category.

BTW - a week or so before this episode - Harry Morgan appeared on the Partridge Family.

 

Edited by sATL
On 4/7/2022 at 10:27 AM, mmecorday said:

Whenever I'm having a particularly good day, I'll say, "This is my Kim Lucky Day!"

Taken from the “Officer of the Day” ep, which is my all-time favorite of the series.

Love the scene where Frank hands Hawkeye his OD badge and gun, adding, “There’s also a sash and a sword that goes with it!”

Hawkeye: “That’s in case we’re attacked by the Saracens.”  Christ almighty! some of the references on this show were just genius.

This was followed by the famous “I will not carry a gun!” soliloquy, which I used to quote at length as an undergrad (“…I’ll even hari-kari if you show me how…”) along with Monty Python & the Holy Grail’s dissection of the Arthurian legend.

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I don’t tune into MeTV’s MASH rotation much anymore (I’ve seen all the episodes a lot), but I do tend to watch when they have their showing of the final episode on Veteran’s Day. I watched again last night. It’s a great but flawed episode.

  • The whole Hawkeye breakdown storyline is honestly the worst. Way too much Alan Alda, and it really dragged things out. Originally the finale aired in a 2 1/2 hour time slot, and they could have cut an hour of it out if they had dropped this story.
  • The story with Charles and the musicians to me is the best.
  • I also liked the story of Hotlips helping Charles get his next job and his resentment of it.
  • BJ was minimized, which is always a good thing. I think it was funny to see Hawkeye slobber over his current BFF BJ at the end, while completely forgetting about his previous BFF, Trapper.

The scene I like best is the farewell dinner, where Col Potter asks everyone to stand up and talk about what’s next to for them. Hotlips has a great speech where she says she’s not a person to tell others how she feels, but she tells her nurses how proud she is of them and how honored she was to work with them. It’s lovely. I also like Nurse Baker saying how she wants to go into maternity or pediatrics so she can help bring people into the world, for a change. And Potter himself pays a nice tribute to his wife, who has been waiting for him to come home at various times since the days of World War I.

It’s a shame they spent so much time on the Hawkeye story upfront, because once the cease fire is declared, they really rush through the dinner and the goodbye scenes and the dismantling of the camp. I thought it was a little weird they all left in different ways (horse, motorcycle, helicopter) but clearly that was a way to give each case member a farewell scene as opposed to leaving the camp together and saying goodbye later in a different location.

They nailed the final shot with the helicopter taking Hawkeye away and the Goodbye message with the rocks. A great bookend to the opening credits.

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6 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

BJ was minimized, which is always a good thing.

A lot of people I knew who watched MASH always say the show jumped the shark for them when it became the Alan Alda show but for me it was when they introduced the character of BJ.  I still watched it - I think once Larry Linville left that was when I pretty much only watched occasionally - but I heartily disliked BJ and especially hated it when he started up with those stupid practical jokes.  I guess they need to give his character A Thing but why that?  So, so stupid.

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1 hour ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

but I heartily disliked BJ and especially hated it when he started up with those stupid practical jokes.  I guess they need to give his character A Thing but why that?  So, so stupid.

Well, a complaint I have often read about BJ was...he just wasn't funny. So maybe that was supposed to mitigate the issue, but it didn't (to me).

And I don't even hate BJ. But for me, he's just...there. I MUCH preferred Trapper. Yes, I know folks say he was just another Hawkeye, but he seemed to have some innate charm and warmth, to me. And (like BJ and unlike Hawkeye), he also had a family, so he wasn't 100% a Hawkeye clone in that respect.

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On 6/14/2021 at 9:12 PM, Crs97 said:

I have to admit that whenever I see MASH come up as having new posts, my stomach drops and I think about Alan Alda as I open the thread.  My heart will be broken when the new post actually means what I am always worried it means.

I feel the same way...time is marching on and its hard b/c I forget that the 1970s was some time ago.

 Who is the oldest living now - Alan ?

46 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I MUCH preferred Trapper. Yes, I know folks say he was just another Hawkeye, but he seemed to have some innate charm and warmth, to me. And (like BJ and unlike Hawkeye), he also had a family, so he wasn't 100% a Hawkeye clone in that respect.

Same.  One of the things I heard was that they were starting to get a little pushback on all the married guys merrily having affairs left and centre so when they had to replace two of the cast they went with straight arrow married men who were not going to be bedding, or trying to bed, all the nurses.  Not sure how true that is but I think the show did move away from the unfaithful spouse as comic fodder, especially, of course when Margaret met and married Donald Penobscot.  

13 minutes ago, sATL said:

 Who is the oldest living now - Alan ?

You got me wondering and I checked and I think that honour goes to Jamie Farr  who is 88.  I also found that Mike Farrell, Jamie Farr and Alan Alda all served in Korea during their army careers though not during the Korean War!

Edited by Elizabeth Anne
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Mike Farrell was hired so his BJ would be a "straight man" to Alan Alda's Hawkeye, so I don't think he was every really meant to be funny.  I've heard that Wayne Rogers has been told that Trapper would be just as important as Hawkeye, and when it became the Hawkeye show, he decided to leave.

For me, once Gary Burghoff left, it became unwatchable.  I liked BJ (granted I started watching the show first-run when he joined the cast), and Winchester was a much better foil than Burns was (I often felt sorry for Frank--I never felt sorry for Charles in the same way).  I love Jamie Farr and it was good that Klinger got a larger role, but they took away a lot of what made Klinger fun (trying to get out of the Army with a section 8).  It just wasn't fun anymore.  I suspect that's also when Alan Alda really took over, too.

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29 minutes ago, Fosca said:

Mike Farrell was hired so his BJ would be a "straight man" to Alan Alda's Hawkeye, so I don't think he was every really meant to be funny.  I've heard that Wayne Rogers has been told that Trapper would be just as important as Hawkeye, and when it became the Hawkeye show, he decided to leave.

For me, once Gary Burghoff left, it became unwatchable.  I liked BJ (granted I started watching the show first-run when he joined the cast), and Winchester was a much better foil than Burns was (I often felt sorry for Frank--I never felt sorry for Charles in the same way).  I love Jamie Farr and it was good that Klinger got a larger role, but they took away a lot of what made Klinger fun (trying to get out of the Army with a section 8).  It just wasn't fun anymore.  I suspect that's also when Alan Alda really took over, too.

True. But he got his turn to be funny in " The Joker is Wild ".... which I thought each joke was quite funny... that poor visiting Dr didn't know what to think.... Hawkeye trying to sleep in a wired-chicken cage using a golf putter as a weapon..."Hawkeye - I've been gone a day so why do you look a year older"....

Speaking of jokes - Now I didn't get Hawkeye's arm flapping joke by a circus performer in "Dear Uncle Abdul"... I read somewhere the joke was written in the script NOT to be funny.. Margret loading a shot-gun to make her footlocker a battle casuality - now that was funny...

Edited by sATL
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BJ filling Frank's foxhole with water and having Sidney yell, "Air Raid!" was funny.

6 hours ago, sATL said:

Now I didn't get Hawkeye's arm flapping joke by a circus performer in "Dear Uncle Abdul"... I read somewhere the joke was written in the script NOT to be funny.

I thought it was pretty funny!  But, 

6 hours ago, sATL said:

Margret loading a shot-gun to make her footlocker a battle casuality

Had me in stitches.  Just the way she calmly returned Charles' rifle after she destroyed the footlocker.

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...and Klinger's dry recap of the incident later in the episode "..I gotta head nurse that shoots unarmed luggage..."....that made me howl....

One thing I noticed as the show went along was they focused more on the patients and their trauma and their lives. I think it was a way for the writers to freshen up things. As Ken Levine was fond of saying, we were stuck in a place and time and not much else. It was a challenge to write new stories for them week after week.

I do think the current model for streaming would have fit will with MASH. Fewer episodes, more impactful stories and maybe a shorter run time.

Still, next year the show will have been off the air for 40 years and we're still watching it and talking about it. 

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22 hours ago, Fosca said:

Mike Farrell was hired so his BJ would be a "straight man" to Alan Alda's Hawkeye, so I don't think he was every really meant to be funny.  I've heard that Wayne Rogers has been told that Trapper would be just as important as Hawkeye, and when it became the Hawkeye show, he decided to leave.

For me, once Gary Burghoff left, it became unwatchable.  I liked BJ (granted I started watching the show first-run when he joined the cast), and Winchester was a much better foil than Burns was (I often felt sorry for Frank--I never felt sorry for Charles in the same way).  I love Jamie Farr and it was good that Klinger got a larger role, but they took away a lot of what made Klinger fun (trying to get out of the Army with a section 8).  It just wasn't fun anymore.  I suspect that's also when Alan Alda really took over, too.

I think when they lost Radar and promoted Klinger, it froze everyone in place for the last three seasons. They lost the funniest part of Klinger as you pointed out, and they missed an opportunity to bring in a new character. I always thought that Klinger (and Mulcahy) were best in small doses.

They also missed the boat by only having one significant female cast member. Lt. Dish was an important character in the movie, but only appeared twice in the first season and then disappeared. Marcia Strassman’s character also disappeared after season 1. You’d think that that could have developed another nurse character to come to the forefront.

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Personally, I'm fonder of the later seasons, but that's mainly because I was born in 1972, and the later episodes are the ones I most remember watching as they first aired. I did catch a few of the reruns here and there, but I didn't start watching them regularly 'til after I finished high school. So I'm much more nostalgic for the later episodes.

I still favour the later seasons, though. Yeah, I admit, it did tend to devolve into Alan Alda's Emmy reel a bit too often, but for the most part, the writing to me seemed a lot more nuanced, especially when it came to characters. Margaret had evolved from a three-note antagonist from the early seasons to a much more nuanced character. Charles was a much better foil than Frank. Potter was a better leader than Blake. Where Hawkeye and Trapper were two peas in a pod, BJ was in many ways Trapper's polar opposite, which gave him and Hawkeye a different dynamic.

And yes, I'll say it, when Klinger gave up on the Section 8, and focused his scheming ways into becoming the Sultan of Scrounge, he became a much more nuanced character. He was still no Radar, I'll give you that, but he managed to forge his own path.

Just now, Egg McMuffin said:

They also missed the boat by only having one significant female cast member. Lt. Dish was an important character in the movie, but only appeared twice in the first season and then disappeared. Marcia Strassman’s character also disappeared after season 1. You’d think that that could have developed another nurse character to come to the forefront.

I thought Nurse Kelleye filled that void nicely.

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3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

They also missed the boat by only having one significant female cast member. Lt. Dish was an important character in the movie, but only appeared twice in the first season and then disappeared. Marcia Strassman’s character also disappeared after season 1. You’d think that that could have developed another nurse character to come to the forefront.

It shows how much TV has changed since the 70s, because if the show was being made at any time since the mid-90s, they would absolutely have elevated Nurse Cutler to a main role and had her as Hawkeye's 'will they, won't they' love interest for multiple seasons. And if not her, then another character would have been added.

The fact that they decided to have no sympathetic romantic pairing at all on the show would be anathema to TV writers and producers today.

On 11/13/2022 at 6:06 PM, Fosca said:

Mike Farrell was hired so his BJ would be a "straight man" to Alan Alda's Hawkeye, so I don't think he was every really meant to be funny.  I've heard that Wayne Rogers has been told that Trapper would be just as important as Hawkeye, and when it became the Hawkeye show, he decided to leave.

I haven't watched the movie in a long time, but I'm sure that Hawkeye and Trapper were more on an equal footing, along with a third surgeon, called Duke. I guess in the TV adaptation they cut three characters into two. But Trapper and Hawkeye were too similar - wisecracking, womanising, drinking - and Alan Alda just did all that better than Wayne Rogers.

BJ was a needed change of pace, because he could carry more dramatic stuff, and he was a complement to Hawkeye rather than competition.

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27 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

It shows how much TV has changed since the 70s, because if the show was being made at any time since the mid-90s, they would absolutely have elevated Nurse Cutler to a main role and had her as Hawkeye's 'will they, won't they' love interest for multiple seasons. And if not her, then another character would have been added.

The fact that they decided to have no sympathetic romantic pairing at all on the show would be anathema to TV writers and producers today.

I haven't watched the movie in a long time, but I'm sure that Hawkeye and Trapper were more on an equal footing, along with a third surgeon, called Duke. I guess in the TV adaptation they cut three characters into two. But Trapper and Hawkeye were too similar - wisecracking, womanising, drinking - and Alan Alda just did all that better than Wayne Rogers.

BJ was a needed change of pace, because he could carry more dramatic stuff, and he was a complement to Hawkeye rather than competition.

I think in the 90s they would have had a woman Dr full-time MASH staff. They tried it with the visiting Dr from Sweeden, but once again she became Hawkeye's love intrest.  In the 90s she should have/could have been his full counter part - or get this------ his boss.

4 hours ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

Personally, I'm fonder of the later seasons, but that's mainly because I was born in 1972

Hey, we're the same age! (Hence the 72 in my username!)

But even if I remember the newer episodes better, I am one that loves the first three seasons best. Guess it's just a matter of preference and whether one preferred the more broad humor of the first three seasons or the more "dramedy" sort of seasons thereafter.

Something for everyone!

And with that, while I did like Harry Morgan's Sherman Potter (even if I preferred Henry Blake!), I LOVED his loonier counterpart, General Hamilton Barton Steele (that's three E's, not all in a row!) BECAUSE I thought he was so much wackier.

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I really love the wackiness too; Colonel Flagg is one of my very favorite characters. How Edward Winter kept a straight face while saying those incredibly insane things is a miracle; he should have won awards for that.

I just looked him up--I knew he was in "Promises, Promises" but I didn't know he was the original Ernst in "Cabaret"!

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4 hours ago, Fosca said:

I really love the wackiness too; Colonel Flagg is one of my very favorite characters. How Edward Winter kept a straight face while saying those incredibly insane things is a miracle; he should have won awards for that.

Yes!

What's funny is, in his first appearance (I believe!) in "Deal Me Out", he went by another name at the outset (forgot it), but I hand wave it as one of his many aliases.

And he appeared somewhat sane/normal, even willing to play poker with Henry, Trapper, Hawkeye, Sidney, and the rest! (Loved Frank griping how anyone that came in to the Swamp got corrupted, and Hawkeye told him to hurry or he'd miss the Good Ship Lollipop. LOL!)

I watched "Margaret's Engagement" before work today. It bothers me to no end that Margaret flaunts her engagement to Frank and thinks he'll be happy for her. This is the same woman who flew into a rage whenever Frank mentioned his wife or his marriage. Larry Linville does some of his best acting in this episode when he's talking to his mother on the phone.

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2 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

I watched "Margaret's Engagement" before work today. It bothers me to no end that Margaret flaunts her engagement to Frank and thinks he'll be happy for her. This is the same woman who flew into a rage whenever Frank mentioned his wife or his marriage. Larry Linville does some of his best acting in this episode when he's talking to his mother on the phone.

why would any man be overjoyed that his side piece was getting married? Margret should have known better. Yes - tell Frank, but don't take it overboard.

I see it as Margaret being in a place of revenge, too.  She's been waiting for Frank to leave his wife for so long that when she gets the chance to rub it in his face ("see what you could have had if you'd left your wife?"), that's exactly what she does.  After all, he kind of does the same thing, just perhaps not quite so obviously.  Petty as hell, yes, but not unusual.  It doesn't hurt that Donald outranks Frank, too.

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On 11/15/2022 at 9:46 AM, Fosca said:

Really love the wackiness too; Colonel Flagg is one of my very favorite characters. How Edward Winter kept a straight face while saying those incredibly insane things is a miracle; he should have won awards for that.

Colonel Flagg has a scene with Hawkeye that allows a perfect deadpan response from Alan Alda.

They layout a scheme too crazy to be true.  

Flagg:  "There is one problem with that plan."

Hawkeye:  "Only one?"

HAHAHAHA!  I try to use that line whenever we are working on a project that is getting out of control and somebody says,  "There is one thing wrong with this."  My inner voice always goes back to Hawkeye's deadpan delivery.

"Only one?"

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