Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Turtle]

I can never stay too mad at Ned.

Me neither. Even at his most vengeful, I just cannot hold anything against him, and I have no idea why.

I don't know if Michael and Sabrina have any staying power, but I'm really liking them together right now. I can see potential for them long-term, and it could be a great story: young ELQ exec and a nurse, both in the process of letting go of the past, trying to overcome some horrible things in their pasts, trying to find their way... It's almost soap-ish!

ETA: historically, "rape by fraud" and similar charges were brought by the father or male guardian of a woman who had sex while not married, to protect the father's "investment" in his daughter because the daughter was ruined, and the daughter was property- it was at heart a property claim. I, for one, would rather not bring that particular charge back into fashion.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Turtle

[TeeVee329]

It also reminded how much I want to see more of Lynn Herring and Lucy, and see her happy with someone again.

 

Paging Doc!  No, not you, NOT!Kevin!

 

I would kill for a story where one of Lucy's daughters comes to town in some kind of soapy trouble and the situation forced Lucy and Kevin to start interacting again and their spark rekindled.

[BestestAuntEver]

LOL that BestestAuntEver and I were posting at the same time and used the exact same two miscarriage scenarios. We obviously both watched in the Guza years, when no woman was capable of navigating stairs!

Yes, I did. As dubbel zout mentioned the mistarriage was his favorite.

[TeeVee329]

In other news, when the truth comes out, I sorta want Ron to reach into his bag of GH history references and throw Mary Bishop in Nikolas' face.

Edited May 7, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

I'm pretty sure I also remember him being furious with Emily because she didn't tell him who he was and who he was to her

[kristabell]

Me neither. Even at his most vengeful, I just cannot hold anything against him, and I have no idea why.

I don't know if Michael and Sabrina have any staying power, but I'm really liking them together right now. I can see potential for them long-term, and it could be a great story: young ELQ exec and a nurse, both in the process of letting go of the past, trying to overcome some horrible things in their pasts, trying to find their way... It's almost soap-ish!

ETA: historically, "rape by fraud" and similar charges were brought by the father or male guardian of a woman who had sex while not married, to protect the father's "investment" in his daughter because the daughter was ruined, and the daughter was property- it was at heart a property claim. I, for one, would rather not bring that particular charge back into fashion.

PhD in history and international law here; and, yes, rape by fraud and rape by deception are in fact illegal. Successful cases have been brought in Israel (a man was convicted of "pretending" to be Jewish, though this case has a lot of very obvious racial overtones) and Australia as well. States, including California, where I am, have specific (recent) statutes addressing rape by deception. Most recent cases in the U.S. have been brought by women tricked into having sex with men they thought were their husbands/boyfriends. Obviously, the laws are usually very narrowly construed, and difficult to prove. However, it is a real thing. And I don't think it's flip or insane to address the issue. US soaps have used rape as a trope for far, far too long with no consequences. If you can't tell a story without one party tricking another party into sex they wouldn't have if they had all the relevant information, then maybe you shouldn't be writing narratives. IMHO storylines like this are a big part of the reason that the demos, including myself, have turned this show off. It's 2015; and TV shows really shouldn't be playing fast and loose with what is and is not "real rape." And, frankly, the fact that so many fans are completely disgusted by this story and many of us in fact do see it as rape, is proof enough to me that it's not a place RC should be going.

Edited May 7, 2015 by kristabell

[HeatLifer]

I've said it before and I say it again: The person who finds out the secret and lies about should have been PATRICK. He's the one who actually has a logical reason for "Jason Morgan" to stay dead and buried. As one who values Liz as one of the most important legacy characters on the GH canvas (she's a direct descendant of STEVE FUCKIN' HARDY, ferchrissakes), it's maddening enough to watch her get tossed under the bus at every turn to make a story work, it's absolutely enraging to watch her get tossed under the bus FOR NO FUCKING GOOD REASON to make a STUPID story work when the story that practically WRITES ITSELF is sitting RIGHT THERE.

You know I agree with every word. But, like you said, they don't want to dirty up Patrick.

[WendyCR72]

You know I agree with every word. But, like you said, they don't want to dirty up Patrick.

 

I don't disagree about Patrick BUT it still does make sense with Liz, (retconned) granddaughter of Steve Hardy or not. She does have history with Jason with their 2.5-second romance and their dead kid. And Jason did leave her high and dry.

 

So I can see Liz wanting a do-over, and she is not above scheming.

 

Maybe BOTH she and Patrick could have found out, but it isn't as if Liz has not made piss-poor choices before. It's her M.O. and is independent of any Patrick bubble that may exist.

[HeatLifer]

I don't disagree about Patrick BUT it still does make sense with Liz, (retconned) granddaughter of Steve Hardy or not. She does have history with Jason with their 2.5-second romance and their dead kid. And Jason did leave her high and dry.

So I can see Liz wanting a do-over, and she is not above scheming.

Maybe BOTH she and Patrick could have found out, but it isn't as if Liz has not made piss-poor choices before. It's her M.O. and is independent of any Patrick bubble that may exist.

Patrick is actually really similar to Liz. He is petty, jealous, a cheater, a liar, careless, selfish, and creates new families like it's no biggie. The difference is Liz is written to be off her rocker and Patrick is good and perfect.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Thank you for this breath of sanity in the ridic "Is Liz a rapist?" debate.

 

With respect, I don't think its ridic at all. I remember when everyone thought that Franco raped Sam, and even though the retcon made that not the case, I have yet to get the bad taste out of my mouth over it. If the situation was reversed and Liz was a dude, there wouldn't even be a debate.

[bannana]

It's not quite as clear-cut as when Todd #2/Victor Jr. re-raped the amnesiac Marty Saybrooke on OLTL, who Todd had raped once before a decade prior and was now romancing with her unawares, but it's close enough for me.

I just don't see this as the same thing at all. What was offensive to viewers was that Todd had raped Marty, in a gang bang session.  She came back with no memory and he entered into a "love" and sex relationship with her.  Very offensive and wrong.

 

Liz is very wrong to not tell Jake the truth, but he will not feel violated the way that Marty did.  He was not raped by Liz, I think he even loved her at one time.  He will feel used, and angry that she kept him from his son and wife.

[WendyCR72]

Patrick is actually really similar to Liz. He is petty, jealous, a cheater, a liar, careless, selfish, and creates new families like it's no biggie. The difference is Liz is written to be off her rocker and Patrick is good and perfect.

 

Well, I give Patrick the slightest edge - as ridiculous as it is that he cannot figure out the Robin situation - since he at least divorced Robin before starting shit with Sam. So he's still one rung above Liz as far as I'm concerned.

 

That, and as unpopular as it is, I agree about his attitude where Jason is concerned, so there's always going to be that.

 

 

Liz is very wrong to not tell Jake the truth, but he will not feel violated the way that Marty did.  He was not raped by Liz

 

Yet. As discussed earlier, it really is a legal concept/precedent whether Jason loved/loves Liz or not, seeing as he doesn't know he is Jason and Liz is willfully keeping that from the guy. But if some don't agree with physical violation, it will be, at the very least, emotional violation.

[Turtle]

Kristabell, I respect your opinion, but in all US jurisdictions, having sex with someone under false pretenses is not a crime; it is at most a basis for a civil suit. It may, in some (rare) situations amount to fraud, but even then it is not a criminal act. There are no cases in the last hundred years that even seriously address "rape by fraud"' because it is an antiquated and outdated legal fiction. Lying to someone to have sex with them is not criminal. Crappy and cruel, yes, but not illegal.

ETA: r

Even if rape by deception exists, this situation does not in any way qualify.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Turtle

[Oracle42]

If the situation was reversed and Liz was a dude, there wouldn't even be a debate.

Agreed. I think it was rape when Ford from OLTL had sex with partial amnesiac Jess.

I am appalled that Liz is even considering this. I cannot imagine there would be any debate if Ric were doing this to an Amnesiac!Liz whether she was married or not.

I just don't see this as the same thing at all. What was offensive to viewers was that Todd had raped Marty, in a gang bang session. She came back with no memory and he entered into a "love" and sex relationship with her. Very offensive and wrong.

Liz is very wrong to not tell Jake the truth, but he will not feel violated the way that Marty did. He was not raped by Liz, I think he even loved her at one time. He will feel used, and angry that she kept him from his son and wife.

I can't speak for other viewers but their horrible past was only part of what was offensive about their story. Withholding Marty's history and isolating her so he could have a creepy relationship that she wouldn't have otherwise was disgusting.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

Well, I give Patrick the slightest edge - as ridiculous as it is that he cannot figure out the Robin situation - since he at least divorced Robin before starting shit with Sam. So he's still one rung above Liz as far as I'm concerned.

That, and as unpopular as it is, I agree about his attitude where Jason is concerned, so there's always going to be that.

No, he was sniffing near Sam way before he was officially divorced. He made sure to throw it in Robin's face at the clinic, too, because Sam was there for him and Dead!Blanket! and she wasn't!

Then he made sure to tell everyone that Robin left him when he actually was the one to initiate the divorce and told her he wouldn't wait for her.

And what attitude on Jason? The one that only applies to Robin and no one else? Liz and Patrick? Also hypocrites!

Edited May 7, 2015 by HeatLifer

[WendyCR72]

And what attitude on Jason?

 

Patrick's disdain for him from Day One. It never changed, and I applaud it.

 

As for Sam, there was a vibe, and while Patrick may have had interest and did throw it at Robin...well, let's rephrase and say it really got going after the divorce. Is it right? Maybe not. But it is what it is. And the ignorance about Robin extends far beyond him to her federal agent/cop/former secret agent mother. And we will agree to disagree about KMc's availability playing a role here.

[Donny Ketchum]

I'm pretty sure I also remember him being furious with Emily because she didn't tell him who he was and who he was to her

He was, and he had every right to be, and he actually did stay angry at both Mary and Emily for a while.  Not a long while, though, because he was back to trusting them both again about a week or two later.

[TheGourmez]

I've never heard of that singer and I found that song extremely degrading to women.

 

I thought it was tongue-in-cheek and while not that exciting, cute to watch.

 

Sorry, show, but you can't act like Spencer's antics, his calling people townie, are hilarious for a year plus and then try and backtrack with a teary "The More You Know" bonding session with his ghost mom.  Doesn't work like that.

 

 

Worked for me! I only liked SWMNBN with AJ and Nikolas, so if she has to rise again, at least it was for a one-day visit to help her son with Nik realize he's a raging asshole.

 

I actually like that Elizabeth has tarnished the halo and is being full out selfish and cruel.  I am also going to love if Ric finds out and rails at her about her hypocrisy, but he'll have to get in line behind Sam, Monica, Michael, Spinelli, Sonny, etc.

 

If this is Liz's Tony Jones spin, I'm in. I thought her rationalizing her decision to keep mum was great soapy fun. Bring on the deceit! Though I doubt it'll last for long.

 

Hooray, Ellie has her man again! I'm going to pretend that whirlwind plot made sense because I don't have to watch Spinelli snivel after Maxie anymore.

 

Is it wrong to hope that Anna's trying to pull a fast one on Duke by agreeing to leave with him?

[TeeVee329]

Worked for me! I only liked SWMNBN with AJ and Nikolas, so if she has to rise again, at least it was for a one-day visit to help her son with Nik realize he's a raging asshole.

 

But it won't stick.  They've been spotlighting his antics for a year plus, he's not suddenly gonna change.  He'll be hurling "townie" around again by Labor Day.

[BestestAuntEver]

I love reading the wit and snark on this board. I also love seeing a glimpse of everyone's education and background. This time brought out by another one of MoRon's "is it or isn't " discussions. Craptini dismiss the intelligence of their viewers regularly. Evwn thou I'm spending more time on the barge, ya'll are the reason I haven't given up on this mess completely.

[peachmangosteen]

I despise Ron doing yet another story that involves a debate by the audience as to whether or not it's rape.

 

He has to be doing it on purpose at this point. He has some serious issues.

 

I don't really care whether or not this is legally rape, Liz is purposefully keeping someone she claims to love from knowing the truth about himself because she wants him to fuck her and knows he won't if he knows who he really is. That is fucking gross. It's a complete violation.

Edited May 7, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[dubbel zout]

He has to be doing it on purpose at this point. He has some serious issues.

 

He's of the "any attention is good attention" school of thought. His extreme defensiveness on Twitter proves it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Ambrosefolly]

I think Rebecca Herbst and the dialogue writers both actually sold her insane, desperate rationale monologue to Nikolas as best as they possibly could. She did a great job performance-wise and the writing - with Liz hissing about Sonny, Carly, etc. all getting what they want in life instead of her - made it work. The thing is, the only way out and through from here is for Elizabeth to have another psychological breakdown. You'd have to say she never got over losing her son to make it work for the character arc, and I think she didn't. I think you can say that she blames her affair with Nikolas for little Jake's death, I think she ties all of that behavior (and her behavior afterwards) back to losing Jason and that potential family as well, I think it's been a long downward spiral. I'm furious with Liz, but I do care about the character and I think there is real work that can be done. The problem is Ron always does it too late, or only during sweeps (hi, Duke!).

I have a better chance of winning lotto tomorrow without buying a ticket than Ron connecting one storyline to another. He doesn't even do it with his own storylines. I would love a Liz-going-off-the-deep-end-storyline, because I don't think she ever truly dealt the rape and the death of Jake. The death of Jake was more about making sure that Luke was okay and Jason's man pain than her. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

The question of whether or not what Liz is doing to Jakeson is indication that she's doing something very very wrong. Traditional rape is only one of the many ways people rights are physically and emotionally violated every day.

 

Liz's fixation on Jason has always been unhealthy so it is not a stretch that she'd go to lengths to finally get him. I never bought that she loved Jason, she idealized him and wanted him on certain terms that were unrealistic. Now she literally gets a clean slate to start over without all the distraction of Jason's life all of which she considers a hindrance to her happiness. 

 

If only these actions is called out for what it is. Yes, amidst the hand slaps, she gets criticized by fans but in universe she never falls from her pedestal. When she is called out, the person calling her out either regrets and apologizes or there is another person, usually one with a penis, on standby to counter it and declare her the fairest woman of all. It happened as recent as yesterday with Nikolas and Hayden. Now Nik is not one to talk but he is an example of Liz' many defenders no matter what she does or who she does it to.

 

Even Robin, who literally saves lives, doesn't measure up to her in her own husband's eyes. At the time when he was deep in love with Robin and Liz was just a friend. Robin's pimping of Liz to Patrick when she left the first time was pure crap but her view of Liz is how the show sees her. 

[ulkis]

So, yesterday's show:

 

I know, I know, I'm still so disgusted with Spinelli and his behavior this return, but that number with him and Ellie locking eyes got me in the feels (yes, I do have them). I just really like her and them, and who he is with her as opposed to with Maxie. That was some hilarious shit though, watching his face fall about sixty stories during his Easy Listening reverie as he and Maxie realized the truth

 

Ha, yeah, I was gonna say, BA has a great voice, but during the song I was having flashbacks of having to sit in the car on trips to the mall being forced to listen to lite fm. So last year was Player, this year was . . . whatever that song is called, so I suppose next year is "Lady in Red".

Edited May 7, 2015 by ulkis

[magnolia11]

Ha, yeah, I was gonna say, BA has a great voice, but during the song I was having flashbacks of having to sit in the car on trips to the mall being forced to listen to lite fm. So last year was Player, this year was . . . whatever that song is called, so I suppose next year is "Lady in Red".

 

Maybe Spencer will arrange for Christopher Cross to come on next year and do that "Think of Laura" song in honor of his grandmother!

[ciarra]

They certainly wrapped up the Spin/Ellie/Maxie/Nathan quad in a hurry, like the writers' parking meter was running out and they had to go!  Or Spin and Ellie's time commitment was running out and Ron forgot they'd be gone soon.  Spin did quite the flipflop when he decided to declare his undying love for Ellie.  So much for the heartfelt? declaration to Maxie.  No one seemed to care where Georgie was, although I think she's grounded for cutting Maxie's hair while Maxie was asleep. 

[dubbel zout]

So much for the heartfelt? declaration to Maxie.

 

It wasn't heartfelt: It was Spin wanting to keep Maxie away from Nathan. He really played on her issues by saying Georgie deserved a family with a father and a mother who lived together. Not that Maxie was much better: Nathan dumps her so she immediately goes to her fallback, Spin. 

 

I'm sure Felicia and Mac were babysitting Georgie, even if it wasn't mentioned.

Edited May 7, 2015 by dubbel zout

[HeatLifer]

Patrick's disdain for him from Day One. It never changed, and I applaud it.

If it "never changed," Patrick would have no problems telling Sam that the reason HE wanted to divorce Robin initially was because she chose to save Jason instead of leaving him for dead. Robin couldn't come home for Blanket's death because Jason was more important. The fact is, Patrick has been absolutely Stepford since his relationship with Sam started.

Edited May 7, 2015 by HeatLifer

[jsbt]

They certainly wrapped up the Spin/Ellie/Maxie/Nathan quad in a hurry, like the writers' parking meter was running out and they had to go!

 

That was bizarre.

 

Maxie: So why were you wooing me?

Spinelli: [beat] The fault lies with Ellie.

Me: [loud disgusted noise on my couch]

 

I mean, I'm glad Spinelli and Ellie are back together and I hope to Christ they both really leave, but what was that? Spinelli blames Ellie and Maxie blames Nathan and whee, let's all get back together? They almost made up for it with their passionate testimonials afterwards (particularly Maxie's to Nathan, where she sort of admitted all her lame excuses were bullshit), but it was so abrupt and stagey and juvenile. Hey, let's all get back together, no questions asked! If Nathan had any pride he'd tell her to take a hike.

[ulkis]

I thought Spin was joking around. Kinda? He was blaming her, but he was blaming her for being so amazing and selfless, basically.

 

I suspect Nathan and Maxie's story for the summer will be listening to Lulu and Dante talk about their problems. It's only fair, I suppose.

[Aprilshowers]

He has to be doing it on purpose at this point. He has some serious issues.

 

I don't really care whether or not this is legally rape, Liz is purposefully keeping someone she claims to love from knowing the truth about himself because she wants him to fuck her and knows he won't if he knows who he really is. That is fucking gross. It's a complete violation.

 

I think she's desperate at this point. It's not gross though, sad maybe? I still am going to enjoy seeing where this goes. Can't be said enough this finally gives BH something to do and I'm watching for the soapiness of it all.

 

Will he forgive her when all is said and done, who knows. 

 

This is PC the land is a cess pool of liars and schemers, Liz ain't the first and won't be the last. I'm cool with it as long as she owns it. 

[TeeVee329]

I suspect Nathan and Maxie's story for the summer will be listening to Lulu and Dante talk about their problems. It's only fair, I suppose.

 

I actually suspect Ron's finally ready to tackle Nathan's in-question paternity again.

[ulkis]

I think that will come in the fall.

[GHScorpiosRule]

This is PC the land is a cess pool of liars and schemers, Liz ain't the first and won't be the last. I'm cool with it as long as she owns it. 

 

That's just the problem with every regime of this show. When Liz is caught for her lies, she does own them, but she is never allowed to LEARN from them and not do it again. 

[magnolia11]

I actually suspect Ron's finally ready to tackle Nathan's in-question paternity again.

 

Will it be Pinocchio or a Sequoia?  I can't wait to find out.

[Dandesun]

As per usual, Ron decides to go for the violation angle above all else. I'm not even going to attempt to put on my surprised face. Nor am I surprised that this is a debate. When "Todd" did it to Marty, there were lots of arguments that what he didn't wasn't really rape. When Ford fucked Jessica, again, debate on whether it was or wasn't.

 

The first instance was a man who took a woman who was bedridden and in need of a full time nurse and shut her up in his house so he could 'rewrite history' -- and among those things that he rewrote was the fact that she had a son who loved and missed her. "Todd" didn't like Cole (okay, that I understood) and he'd recently alienated his family due to freaking out over catching his daughter having sex with Marty's son. He made Marty completely dependent on him and the idea was supposed to be that he genuinely fell for her and offered to 'let her go' -- you know, out into a world where he told her she had nothing and no one -- in order to prove his love for her or some such nonsense. He also looked different from the Todd who raped her so she didn't equate the two... especially since he certainly didn't tell her who he was. It was gross. It was ugly. They went on picnics with soft focus and he made all of the advances on her which just made it all the more disgusting. And afterwards Ron tried to tell everyone it was a horror story but... bullshit. Especially since he had "Todd" engaging in rough sex with Tea shortly after to throw him right back into the hijinks. But you had an amnesiac woman who was absolutely not in control of her own life being victimized by a man... one who had done it before.

 

The second instance was a woman who had been so traumatized by death and her biological father drugging her and attempting to rape her that she wound up mentally regressing to a teenaged.  She was heartbroken that the man she was in love with as a teenager was with someone else and would not play along with the regression so she went running off for solace... and found herself with a guy who knew her mental state was not right and didn't care, oh, and she was the third woman he was attempting to score with that night. His pizza girl side piece left when his high school senior side piece showed up to find him with her and then almost slept with him anyway before HER boyfriend arrived to call them both out for their shit. Then Jessica, again regressed to a teen, showed up and Ford decided she'd do. She flipped out DURING the sex, screaming and freaking out, then her alter -- who was created during her sexual abuse as a child -- took over. And we were all supposed to be okay with that mess, too. A mentally unstable woman taken advantage of by a guy who knew very much that she was in a bad state and thought she was easy pickings.

 

So now we have Liz... knowing that Jake is Jason... dealing with an amnesiac man and deciding it's her turn whether he likes it or not. This is morally reprehensible. Period. There is no wiggle room. He's already had some memories... how far is she going to go to fuck with his head in order to finally get hers? Marty absolutely wanted to have sex with "Todd" but that doesn't mean it wasn't rape. It meant she didn't know any better because if she had known who he was, or that she had a son, or a man who she had been involved with that's where she would have been. Jake may be into Liz but he does not have all the information. If they slept together before she knew who he was that would be one thing, she'd be operating with the same amount of information he has but that is no longer the case. She knows... she knows he has a son and he has a wife that mourned him... that still does, actually. She is withholding information for her own benefit.

 

The arguments I always saw in the previous instances were 'so if I go to a bar and meet a woman and tell her that I'm a doctor and she sleeps with me... does that mean I raped her?' My thought is always this... why the fuck does anyone have to put out a false persona in order to get laid? Why is that accepted as remotely normal?! This is why we continue to have such issues with consent... because 'oh but he's into her so that means it's okay to be lying.' It's not okay, Not even close.

 

Liz has all the power now. She does not care about Jason's life. She only wants him... finally... for herself. She could do the right thing and tell him... he could go back to Sam and tell the truth, and they might realize that too much time has passed and then he would be free to be with Liz then but she's not going that way. She's holding onto the power so she can have what she wants.

 

It's funny though that she talks about Sonny and Carly. They do awful things and get what they want so why not her? Yeah... it's not a good idea when  you start comparing yourself to those parasites. Good job, Liz.

[TeeVee329]

I think that will come in the fall.

 

I dunno, we are supposed to see Donna Mills again soon.

[dubbel zout]

I know I've been anxiously waiting to find out who Nathan's real father is.

 

Good grief. There is practically nothing I care about less.

[ulkis]

I know I've been anxiously waiting to find out who Nathan's real father is.

 

Good grief. There is practically nothing I care about less.

 

Rosalie's secret? Nina's inner angst?

[magnolia11]

Rosalie's secret? Nina's inner angst?

 

Will Franco and Nina ever get over this tragic hurdle in their relationship and trust each other again?

[HeatLifer]

Wow.

Wow.

This show.

Disgusting.

[tveyeonyou]

Is this ReRon's soap opera version of 50 Shades of Nikolas?

 

ETA: I haven't seen todays show yet but judging from HeatLifer's post, I don't think I want to watch.

Edited May 7, 2015 by tveyeonyou

[Oracle42]

I'm askeered

[ulkis]

Is this ReRon's soap opera version of 50 Shades of Nikolas?

 

ETA: I haven't seen todays show yet but judging from HeatLifer's post, I don't think I want to watch.

 

I assume HeatLifer is reacting to the twangy romance music the Jason/Liz sex/rape/weirdass scene is getting. My reaction isn't as strong as hers but I am indeed mystified as to what they're going for here.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I know I've been anxiously waiting to find out who Nathan's real father is.

 

Good grief. There is practically nothing I care about less.

 

Nina's horse?

[ulkis]

Nina's horse is the best part of her! 

[CPP83]

I love how everyone basically began screeching at Julian to just "let it go" when all he kept doing was asking Sam, in a half hoarse voice, to just tell him what she meant. And of course since Olivia and Ned kept shouting at him and acting as if he was holding a gun on someone he immediately knew it had to be about the baby.

 

Also Sam standing by with that "deer in the headlights" stare was pretty much giving everything away anyhow.    

  

Only this show would make a man who has every right to know if a baby is his or not the "bad guy" because it makes things a bit more inconvenient for the people who would rather chain together a pack of lies that could easily wreck and ruin the baby's life down the road.             

 

If this kid doesn't survive I really won't mind, not a single iota.    

 

So I guess Greenlee stole the PC hone book after she "overheard" Liz and Nik to figure out exactly who was who

 

As soon as the music began to play during Jakson and Liz's bedroom scenes I had to turn away.     

 

The only two other people on this show that I would rather eat glass first than watch play a round of mattress tag would be the SERIAL KILLER and the Nina.

 

So Liz is going to get the "crazy" label for this I am going to assume. How fantastically pointless and utterly worthless, imho.

 

Carrrrrrlos really is far too chatty to be an effective hit-man. And of course he got shot, the idiot, and Duke gets to slither, or is it prance, away free.       

[HeatLifer]

I assume HeatLifer is reacting to the twangy romance music the Jason/Liz sex/rape/weirdass scene is getting. My reaction isn't as strong as hers but I am indeed mystified as to what they're going for here.

I don't know what other reaction to have, TBH. Liz just had sex and completely took advantage of a man because she knows that if she told the truth, they couldn't be together. It's the sickest shit that's being veiled as romantic.

And apologizing to Jason's pic? But it's OK bc Sam is happy with Patrick? Screw everyone else? Poor Robin is locked up for longer than she has to be bc Liz wants her dick.

Ghkhkjhfgjkjg.

[TeeVee329]

I think what's making Liz look horrible right now is the complete lack of hesitation.  She doesn't even need a night to wrap her head around the huge moral compromise she just made and what it means?

 

HA, Rebecca Budig found out about Jason because she overheard the two idiots talking!  Take 'em to the cleaners, girl!

 

Again, show, I could not care less that Shawn is sooo in lurve with Jordan.

 

Hey, Aiden exists!