Episode Discussion: TFGH

[kristabell]

I think the 40-50 age group is so heavy because a) the show wants to lean on established characters instead of putting the time and effort into organically building the next generations and b) a lot of the younger actors take their leave a lot earlier.

 

I'm not convinced that younger viewers are only or more interested in seeing the younger set. Even as a teen, I hated all the teen/early twenty characters. The more mature characters have always (ok well not with Ron obviously) been more layered, more interesting, and generally played by better actors.

I do think they need to focus on the younger set certainly going forward, though. I doubt this show is going to be on for another ten - or five - years, but how many stories can you tell with these same half-dozen forty-something characters? They need to move some of the major storylines to the next generation.

 

As far as appealing to audiences, networks don't care about people over 50. That's why the demos are important. They care about catching that elusive 18-49 female demographic. Daytime soaps have lost that demographic by imo being overly plot-focused and throwing away the character development, emotional storylines, and focus on relationships that used to define soaps. 

[ParadoxLost]

You're definitely not alone in your paranoia . . . 

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2009/05/the-people-vs-tony-geary.html

 

Even this was old news at the time.  Geary was always 1000 times worse in interviews than what was onscreen,  Back when Lucky died in a fire, Luke slept with a prostitute and it was portrayed as a one time thing that happened due to grief (and I think Laura and Luke weren't doing too well at the time).  But at the same time, Geary's interviews were all about how Laura was always a 'pure' love to Luke so he'd always slept with hookers through their entire marriage and it didn't mean anything.

 

I wasn't surprised when Ethan happened.  It was a tidal wave they couldn't hold back (or didn't care to) any longer.

 

Same way as Bernard played Sonny as bipolar even though the writers didn't want to do that.  They gave up at some point.

[hypnotoad]

 

So Sonny is no worse for Avery than any of the other adults in PC.

 

Didn't Sonny shoot Carly in the head while she was giving birth? Didn't Sonny just kill AJ in cold blood? Didn't one of his wives get blown up and one of his daughters almost blown up?

 

Dumb as they are, Morgan and Kiki would be much better for Avery. Mac would be better (there has to be a way to swing that). Dante, Det special Kitty, Lulu, Ned, Lucas, Olivia (she isn't perfect but she hasn't murdered anyone - I don't think), Alexis (yeah she has bad taste in men but she's still a better parent than Sonny) ... just to name a few.

 

 

Franco and Nina are really cute

 

I just can't with this twosome at all. He's a serial killer and she stole a woman baby by forcing her to give birth. Yep, they are adorable. MS will never ever be cute to me, she is a horrible 'actress.' I'd be okay with RH if he was playing any other character.

 

 

He also reminded Julian that Tony Jones died of an illness and wasn't murdered in cold blood by his "father," and if that were the case, Lucas wouldn't give Julian the time of day.  It was a nice STFU, Julian, from Michael.

 

I cannot stand Julian being a Sonny cheerleader. Beyond ridiculous. I'm glad Michael got to shut him down. RC sucks. It just cannot be said enough.

 

 

Even as a teen, I hated all the teen/early twenty characters.

 

Same here. The only young character story I ever really liked were on AMC: Jesse/Angie/Jenny/Greg.

Edited February 11, 2015 by hypnotoad

[ulkis]

I know it is unpopular but Sonny IS Avery's father and a wealthy mature man. There is no way he should have to beg that mooche Kiki to see or have his own child. I don't care that he is a mobster. I've yet to hear one legacy child on this show grow to adulthood without being shot, kidnapped, wrongly in jail etc. 

 

I think most of the kids on this show were not kidnapped, imprisoned, or shot while growing up. :) I think the exceptions are Lucky (shot when twelve years old), Morgan, Michael, and Kristina (kidnapped as toddlers and a pre-teen), Robin (kidnapped a couple of times as a child) and Michael again (in a coma when twelve). Everyone else, stuff didn't start happening to them till they got SORASed :)

[sometimesfan]

At this point I hope Delia and Lauren get custody over Sonny and Carly.

 

Hopefully there is a custody trial and Michael tells the Judge how Sonny was going to kill Ava just after she gave birth and had her child taken.

Edited February 11, 2015 by sometimesfan

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I know it is unpopular but Sonny IS Avery's father and a wealthy mature man.

 

Dead serious - when have you seen Sonny be "mature"? I'll give you that chronologically he's in his fifties, but emotionally and mentally? He gives Lessgan ( someone who isn't me) a run for his money when it comes to being childish and petulant.

[Tiger]

Well, if Olivia's pregnant (whyyyy), there'll be yet another sibling for Sam and Dante to share. 

What sibling do Sam and Dante already share?

 

I actually watched today and I had a rage blackout after what Julian said. It irritated me more because I was taken aback from it coming from Julian - I didn't expect him to be jumping on the Sonny bandwagon. Sonny must lay down the pipe. I have no other explanation.

Julez be gettin some good D in prison. Sonny effing his brains out would explain why he's suddenly as dumb as Carly, Olivia, Brenda, and all the other wimmins Sonny has banged.

[Lillybee]

I hope that Dante and Lulu get the baby. They are the only stable couple on this show. They have an income. All they need would be a bigger place.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

What sibling do Sam and Dante already share?

 

Girl-Child Kristina.

[sometimesfan]

Girl-Child Kristina.

 

Well, she's a girl child. Does she count in Sonny's world?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

This is why we should start worrying for Avery now.

[Ambrosefolly]

That's kind of my point here, though.  If it weren't for that trope, they wouldn't have had Luke and Laura fall in love and get married, he wouldn't be half of the "Supercouple", and hence would not be as famous and beloved as he is today.  He clearly doesn't care, and that's what makes me so mad. 

It makes me mad too. On the Spencer thread, someone found a question from on Facebook or another board asking who Nikolas and Lulu mother was, because they had no idea, and it is really depressing because GF's Laura had only been on the show for less than a year total in the last decade. Sorry if all of his professional dreams didn't come true or that the audience didn't wrap their arms around Bill Eckhart and his family, but GH bends over backwards to keep him, which isn't afforded to many soap vets that are equally as talented.

 

And my like of Sonny continues to grow b/c OMG I've never seen a cuter scene with a man and a baby. That baby was facinated with Mo's beard. squeee.

I know it is unpopular but Sonny IS Avery's father and a wealthy mature man. There is no way he should have to beg that mooche Kiki to see or have his own child. I don't care that he is a mobster. I've yet to hear one legacy child on this show grow to adulthood without being shot, kidnapped, wrongly in jail etc. So Sonny is no worse for Avery than any of the other adults in PC. If Ava was free and alive there would be no question she should parent her child and the same should hold for Sonny.

 

Sonny does not continue to grow. The only thing he is sorry about is what it is doing to Michael, which means that Michael right to want nothing to do with him. He doesn't care that Monica had to bury another family member. He doesn't acknowledge that every since Michael was a baby, he and Carly pretty much drove AJ to act as extremely as he did. He didn't show remorse that in the end it was only AJ that seemed to care about what happened to Connie. He is rich (and I hope that Michael fixes that), but he isn't mature and with the other kids that calamities happen to, the parents aren't usually the cause of them.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[Aurora2]

I don't think Geary cares about Luke having a heart of gold to be fair to him; I think that's the writers giving him that aspect.

 

I do think Luke is invested in Luke being a decent person sometimes, but only when Jonathan Jackson is around.

 

I think he had moments with Julie's Lulu as well - not as consistently as with JJ, but sometimes.   Tony could show a really tender,caring side to Luke at times when Lulu was in crisis - at the peak of her abortion struggles ... when she almost died with the monkey virus ... and during the scenes at the old Haunted Star when Lulu confronted him about his not being there for her.  

 

In fact those really good father/daughter scenes at the Haunted Star in Jan, 2012, are the ones I'm holding onto to try to get the image of yesterday's Luke crapfest out of my mind.   

 

Nothing good about that mess - or even from what I felt for the first time as a fuck you attitude coming from Geary when he looked though the bars - seemingly at his TV audience.

[HipOldBat]

It makes me mad too. On the Spencer thread, someone found a question from on Facebook or another board asking who Nikolas and Lulu mother was, because they had no idea, and it is really depressing because GF's Laura Sorry if all of his professional dreams didn't come true or that the audience didn't wrap their arms around Bill Eckhart and his family, but GH bends over backwards to keep him, which isn't afforded to many soap vets that are equally as talented.

 

Sonny does not continue to grow. The only thing he is sorry about is what it is doing to Michael, which means that Michael right to want nothing to do with him. He doesn't care that Monica had to bury another family member. He doesn't acknowledge that every since Michael was a baby, he and Carly pretty much drove AJ to act as extremely as he did. He didn't show remorse that in the end it was only AJ that seemed to care about what happened to Connie. He is rich (and I hope that Michael fixes that), but he isn't mature and with the other kids that calamities happen to, the parents aren't usually the cause of them.

 

They really do. I mean, wasn't this last go-round for TG based on the understanding that they write this Fluke thing the way he (TG) wanted?

 

I agree with your comments about Sonny.  Really, the only reason he cares about what Michael thinks is because it reflects badly on his "Sonny is a hero/loves his kids" image that he tries to maintain.  It's never about anyone else but him.  He is a narcissist through and through, and people are just objects to control, prop him up, or do his bidding.  He isn't capable of authentic feelings for other people, except rage.  That's a typical clinical presentation and I would love it if it were intentional, but I'm pretty sure it's not.

[Cattitude]

Sonny does not continue to grow. The only thing he is sorry about is what it is doing to Michael, which means that Michael right to want nothing to do with him. He doesn't care that Monica had to bury another family member. He doesn't acknowledge that every since Michael was a baby, he and Carly pretty much drove AJ to act as extremely as he did. He didn't show remorse that in the end it was only AJ that seemed to care about what happened to Connie. He is rich (and I hope that Michael fixes that), but he isn't mature and with the other kids that calamities happen to, the parents aren't usually the cause of them.

 

Just to be clear I did mean mature as in "older" I was trying to be polite:)

I don't fault Sonny for not caring about Monica or AJ b/c as far as I can see very few people in PC feel that way either so to me he is one of the crowd. He does however NOW seem to care more about Michael that most other people in PC including Michael's own mother and brother.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Cattitude

[hypnotoad]

 

If it weren't for that trope, they wouldn't have had Luke and Laura fall in love and get married, he wouldn't be half of the "Supercouple", and hence would not be as famous and beloved as he is today.

 

Absolutely! Without GF and Luke/Laura I doubt TG would be the star he is. Listen, I understand he wouldn't want to be hemmed into the same character forever. There's a simple solution: leave the show. But even staying, why does everything about past!Luke have to pissed on? That's my issue. I find TG completely tiresome.

[jennifer6973]

Oh, and where the hell did MAxie get all that money to give to Johnny?

 

 

All she said she had was a few 20's in her wallet, so it's not like it was a lot.  I'm gonna guess it is running around money given to her by Mac.  I see no problem with it.  I would love for her to have a job, but unless Jax or Julian are going to re-boot Crimson, I don't want to see her doing something just to do it.  I loved her in Crimson mode, I think it's what she does best.  But for her to do that, she'd probably have to move to NYC.

[HipOldBat]

 

 

 

I also really liked the scene with Michael and Olivia b/c I thought what she said was valid. She wasn't excusing  Sonny or belittling Michael's anger, fact was she had been in his position and worked through it. It seems very telling that the people in town who are the least criminal Olivia, Ned and Dante are all telling Michael his anger will eat him alive. It isn't about Sonny but about Michael himself. Being LIKE the person you despise isn't any way to live. Michael would be better served honoring AJ's memory working on the clinic and leave Sonny to be Sonny. He can cut him out of his life and that is pain enough for Sonny. Michael hurts himself more than Sonny by fanning his anger.

 

 

 

I don't see how Michael is becoming anything like Sonny.  He hasn't tried to kill him, he hasn't hired a hitman, even.  He has a legitimate right to be angry, and be morally outraged.  Olivia's ridiculous - she had to watch AJ after Connie was killed?  He was acquitted.  Plus he wasn't exactly skipping down the street singing about it, nor was Olivia being badgered by everyone she knew to go see AJ and forgive him.

 

Michael wants justice for AJ. His anger isn't just personal, it's moral.  Instead of people supporting his wish to right a wrong, they're hassling him and making him justify his anger every time they see him.  It's like most of them have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever.  He won't be consumed by anger, not if he can rectify the situation and get justice for his father.  And we know he won't try to get it by the methods Sonny uses, which are never legal and almost universally immoral.

[tvgoddess]

 

Sonny looked like he wanted to eat the baby. Good for Kiki for not wanting him to hold her. And vomit at Carly's simpering smile when Sonny said he would be back for Avery tomorrow.

 

What was with that creepy ass whispering? Between that and the scraggly beard, he looked like a damn pedophile. HE IS GROSS. Nice stripper trenchcoat, Carly. Ugh, they both sicken me. And Lessgan? Don't get me started. He's abysmal. Could he crawl any further up Sonny's ass?

 

I'm afraid of what I've become, because god help me I've been liking Sabrina and Kiki. The power of a character being pro-Ava. I refuse to turn into a Silas fan though. One of you needs to rescue me.

 

Oops, I guess Julian called him an "ungrateful bastard" and not a "son of a bitch". Not that it matters; Ron has ruined Jew-lee-ehn by turning him into a Sonny ass-kisser. I'm sure eh-VAH will be singing Sonny's praises too eventually.

 

BITE YOUR TONGUE! Hasn't Ava (I mean, haven't I) suffered enough already with Crypt Sex without turning the only reason I continue to watch this show into another damn Sonny propper?

 

Olivia, why do you forget that you were screwing Sonny before Connie's body was even cold? And you're still defending him? Pregnancy brain's gotta suck.

 

Julian, Julian, Julian. You were doing so well. Why weren't you pissed like you were on the bridge?

 

Why I'm watching when Ava's offscreen, I have no idea (although she did dominate a lot of conversation today). But I can't even get Anna or Jordan either. I miss them.

[Ambrosefolly]

Just to be clear I did mean mature as in "older" I was trying to be polite:)

I don't fault Sonny for not caring about Monica or AJ b/c as far as I can see very few people in PC feel that way either so to me he is one of the crowd. He does however NOW seem to care more about Michael that most other people in PC including Michael's own mother and brother.

I think that Michael read him right when he said that Sonny was being falsely humble and wanted his freedom so badly he could taste it.  And if Sonny had any humanity, he should feel something for Monica because as he told Kate the day Emily was buried, if someone did to him what he unintentionally did to Monica, he would kill him. I really don't think he seems to care that much about Michael's feelings, as so one on the TWoP once commented, Sonny treasured Jason and Michael above all because thieves value what they steal over anything else. 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

In my head, Maxie quietly gives Mac a blow job as some compensation. Would explain why she never looks for work but has invisible means of support.It's been going on for years, and Felicia isn't aware or looks the other way.

 

What?!? Yikes. In no part of my brain can i picture that nor would I want to. He raised her and is for all intents and purposes her father.

 

Yes, it is sad but I see Maxie as just about that naïve and manipulative, cynical and opportunistic. Plenty of people wonder how she supports herself, other than living off others (usually men). It's too bad that the judge was depicted as so extreme in his criticism of Maxie; it seemed to me that he was picking up some definite personality and moral traits from her behavior that hinted at deep-seated problems.  

 

Just look at the news to see many instances and examples of a world that is riddled with incest. It certainly is not rare. Having seen a couple of real examples during my life among acquaintances, perhaps it is easier for me to jump to conclusions or wonder when observing a certain set of facts or a situation, whether on TV or in real life.

 

[Chairperson Meow]

Go for it all, Micheal. Take SonnyBucks, the Hotel, GirlChild Deuce, then burn down Sonny's mansion, and hire Duke as a butler. Make Brenda a trophy wife. Dammit, get the nutella and vodka, ya'll! We about to get justice for AJ Quartermaine in this piece.

[SoapDoc]

 

Michael wants justice for AJ. His anger isn't just personal, it's moral.  Instead of people supporting his wish to right a wrong, they're hassling him and making him justify his anger every time they see him.  It's like most of them have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever.  He won't be consumed by anger, not if he can rectify the situation and get justice for his father.  And we know he won't try to get it by the methods Sonny uses, which are never legal and almost universally immoral.

 It is sad that there is no one who completely accepts Michael's anger (at least who is on canvas regularly). Dante gets it but tempers it with some sympathy for Sonny -- same with Olivia. They don't let him talk about this to the Qs enough -- perhaps they could be equally as angry even if they did not like AJ. I was interested to hear a bit of anger from Ned -- Ned and Michael need to chat 

 

BECAUSE

 

 

Go for it all, Micheal. Take SonnyBucks, the Hotel, GirlChild Deuce, then burn down Sonny's mansion, and hire Duke as a butler. Make Brenda a trophy wife. Dammit, get the nutella and vodka, ya'll! We about to get justice for AJ Quartermaine in this piece.

This is so true. I want this to happen -- business shenanigans can be so much fun on a soap.. I would love for Sonny to realize that Michael is coming after him (and Carly) business-wise Sonny won't shoot him and will have to try to fight back legally. I would love to see Michael take over Carly's half of the hotel and change the name to the Q Hotel and kick Sonny out.

 

I never get what I want.  

[Turtle]

I never even liked Brenda but I could get 100% percent behind Michael and Brenda hooking up.  I'd prefer it if it was just ongoing sex, without a whole romantic relationship, because we all know Sonny would lash out with his usual name-calling, just making Michael more and more angry.

 

I agree with your comments about Sonny.  Really, the only reason he cares about what Michael thinks is because it reflects badly on his "Sonny is a hero/loves his kids" image that he tries to maintain.  It's never about anyone else but him.  He is a narcissist through and through, and people are just objects to control, prop him up, or do his bidding.  He isn't capable of authentic feelings for other people, except rage.  That's a typical clinical presentation and I would love it if it were intentional, but I'm pretty sure it's not.

 

Agree.  I think Sonny is upset because Michael is mad at him, not because he hurt Michael.  It's about the effect it has on Sonny, not Michael.  Hell, how many times did he say that if he had to do over again, he'd still shoot AJ?  Sonny lacks all empathy and always has.  Everything he's ever done or felt has been 100% about him without any thought of other people.  And I don't think it's that he ignores what other people think or feel, I think he's hardwired to not even notice or for it to not even occur to him that people have thoughts or feelings that don't coincide with what he wants.  Something he probably should have addressed through therapy quite some time ago.  What was the point in the bipolar story if it was "Hey, take your meds" and then only ever mentioned again during JAZZ HANDS?  Bipolar is an illness that needs constant maintenance through both medication and therapy.  Especially if you keep putting yourself in to unnecessarily stressful situations (murder, prison escape, looking for the towels).  

Edited February 11, 2015 by Turtle

[Cattitude]

I don't see how Michael is becoming anything like Sonny.  He hasn't tried to kill him, he hasn't hired a hitman, even.  He has a legitimate right to be angry, and be morally outraged.  Olivia's ridiculous - she had to watch AJ after Connie was killed?  He was acquitted.  Plus he wasn't exactly skipping down the street singing about it, nor was Olivia being badgered by everyone she knew to go see AJ and forgive him.

 

Michael wants justice for AJ. His anger isn't just personal, it's moral.  Instead of people supporting his wish to right a wrong, they're hassling him and making him justify his anger every time they see him.  It's like most of them have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever.  He won't be consumed by anger, not if he can rectify the situation and get justice for his father.  And we know he won't try to get it by the methods Sonny uses, which are never legal and almost universally immoral.

 

Here in lies the problem with revenge as Dante, Olivia and Ned have tried to tell Michael. It will always be a hollow victory b/c it will NEVER make-up for AJ being dead. Michael can keep trying to get revenge on Sonny his whole life and it will never fill that void. If instead he tries to do good in AJ's name he might actually get some joy in a bad situation. Being like Sonny isn't being literally LIKE Sonny but being morally like Sonny as in someone who would put revenge over everything else. To be someone to be admired Michael should strive to be the opposite of Sonny not like him.

 

And if Michael truely wanted moral justice for AJ the only way he'd get it is if Sonny was dead and when that was a literal possiblity after the bomb he truely realizes he didn't want Sonny dead.

 

What would be the best course for Michael to take is make every good compassionate thing in town tied to AJ's name and to never be close with Sonny again. That would cause Sonny to have AJ rubbed in his face daily, rob him of Michael's love and make Michael a better person than Sonny.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Cattitude

[HipOldBat]

Again, just got through watching today's episode on HuluPlus (I really need to buy a TV and an antenna - the constant buffering is driving me mad)...

 

Ha! We see, once more, how sensitive Sonny is.  He's so sorry that Ava is dead and Kiki just found out she lost her mother, so naturally he's going to take her sister away from her.  So nice of him to give her 24 hours to hand over the kid.

 

Unbelievable.  Are the writers even aware how gross that came across?

 

Poor Ned.  They need to find someone nice for him - such a pity that baby isn't his.  I would have loved that.

 

Loved Angry Michael.  He made that show worth watching today.

 

Also loved Carlos, just because he protected Sabrina and also I think he's really nice to look at.  More screen time, please!

 

As for Maxie...she is the Queen of Bad Decisions.  She's worried about custody issues yet still helps Johnny, failing to realize that she will have to admit to letting Johnny into her apt - why didn't she tell him to go back out and kick the door in?  What a dum-dum. 

 

I liked the break we had from Luke today.  Phew.  Tires me out to watch him.

Here in lies the problem with revenge as Dante, Olivia and Ned have tried to tell Michael. It will always be a hollow victory b/c it will NEVER make-up for AJ being dead. Michael can keep trying to get revenge on Sonny his whole life and it will never fill that void. If instead he tries to do good in AJ's name he might actually get some joy in a bad situation. Being like Sonny isn't being literally LIKE Sonny but being morally like Sonny as in someone who would put revenge over everything else. To be someone to be admired Michael should strive to be the opposite of Sonny not like him.

 

Michael doesn't want revenge, he wants justice.

 

Sonny's whole thing with Ava was about revenge.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Here in lies the problem with revenge as Dante, Olivia and Ned have tried to tell Michael. It will always be a hollow victory b/c it will NEVER make-up for AJ being dead. Michael can keep trying to get revenge on Sonny his whole life and it will never fill that void. If instead he tries to do good in AJ's name he might actually get some joy in a bad situation. Being like Sonny isn't being literally LIKE Sonny but being morally like Sonny as in someone who would put revenge over everything else. To be someone to be admired Michael should strive to be the opposite of Sonny not like him.

 

I don't understand this logic. What exactly would you prefer Michael to do? On the one hand, you say that he shouldn't be like Sonny because revenge is wrong and hollow, and he would have learned that how? Not from growing up as Sonny's son, that's for damned sure. But then you seem to say that he should be soft-voiced with Sonny because he raised him and he will always be his father, etc. So which is it? I don't see how you can say he doesn't have every reason in the universe to hate the tiny little mobster until the end of time, particularly since, as Turtle says, Sonny only seems to care because Michael not liking him reflects poorly on what he thinks of himself as opposed to any damage he's done to Michael. Or A.J., for that matter. Unless there's something wrong with him other than his bipolar issues, he should care that he killed an innocent man and broke part of his "beloved" son's heart in the process.

[linsav]

HipOldBat

A minute ago

 

Michael doesn't want revenge, he wants justice.

 

True, Michael isn't going to murder someone to get back at Sonny but he is going to take something(s) away from him in the name of justice. A variation of "an eye for an eye".  I think Avery is first up then Sonny's legit business, maybe even go after Carly's half of the hotel. I would love for him to call Jax to initiate a custody battle over Joss with Carly.  Hit them where it hurts - their possessions, which is the only thing Sonny and Carly care about. And make no mistake about it, Avery is a possession just like Jason and Michael were to both Sonny and Carly.

Edited February 11, 2015 by linsav

[Francie]

Even this was old news at the time.  Geary was always 1000 times worse in interviews than what was onscreen,  Back when Lucky died in a fire, Luke slept with a prostitute and it was portrayed as a one time thing that happened due to grief (and I think Laura and Luke weren't doing too well at the time).  But at the same time, Geary's interviews were all about how Laura was always a 'pure' love to Luke so he'd always slept with hookers through their entire marriage and it didn't mean anything.

 

I wasn't surprised when Ethan happened.  It was a tidal wave they couldn't hold back (or didn't care to) any longer.

 

Same way as Bernard played Sonny as bipolar even though the writers didn't want to do that.  They gave up at some point.

Wow, I choose to remember two choice pieces of dialogue from 1996.

 

One involved Jax and Brenda talking about Laura's (supposed) death. I'm going from memory of a well-worn videotape, but their conversation went something like:

 

Jax:  You know [Luke], I don't.

Brenda:  They used to fight and make up. Fight and make up. But even when they were apart, he never once looked at another woman.

 

And another, which actually may be from 1997, between Luke and Lucy:

 

Luke makes some lewd comment.

 

Lucy:  You never ONCE looked at me!

Luke:  Oh, I LOOKED!

 

The implication clearly being that she had caught his attention, but that he had never acted on it.  He appreciated her, and, well, if he wasn't wholly in love in and devoted to his wife, that he would have made a pass. But that was an "if" that clearly stayed in the imaginary realm.

 

And I still recall Luke and Laura's return story in 1993, which Tony Geary himself penned, and he went to the trouble of creating this whole scenario where he and Sonny were on the road and this Iman-looking woman was coming on to Luke like gang busters -- and he had to spend the entire night in the same room with her -- and Sonny was all "hey, what happens in Vegas" and Luke was acting like he was 8 years old and she had cooties.  Umm, yeah, the guy who's "separated sex from love" would turn down a freebie like that and do actual gymnastics to stay out of arm's reach?  Oooookay, there, Sparky.

 

That was so much the part of Luke's charm and likability. His devotion and attraction to his "angel."  It's funny because Tony very clearly invested in that and built up that perception about his character, so to back track on that and try to pull the rug out from under it speaks of his own personal issues and demons.  I'd love to say, "YOU created that, this perception that you're trying to "challenge" the fans to abandon, which is a very false and self-serving characterization."  Based on that interview, Tony tried to run from it, and indeed destroy it, and he was clearly angry at the viewing audience (whether fans or not, because that is how any reasonable viewer would have interpreted Luke), for remembering what he apparently wanted to forget.

 

And, yeah, this should have gone in the history thread, as I've now been on the barge for more than a week and this focuses on 1990s Luke. But given how much Tony's current version of Luke Spencer is clearly mucking up the works, I'm putting it here. Plus I'm tired and lazy. Forgive me.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Francie

[HipOldBat]

Agree.  I think Sonny is upset because Michael is mad at him, not because he hurt Michael.  It's about the effect it has on Sonny, not Michael.  Hell, how many times did he say that if he had to do over again, he'd still shoot AJ?  Sonny lacks all empathy and always has.  Everything he's ever done or felt has been 100% about him without any thought of other people.  And I don't think it's that he ignores what other people think or feel, I think he's hardwired to not even notice or for it to not even occur to him that people have thoughts or feelings that don't coincide with what he wants.  Something he probably should have addressed through therapy quite some time ago.  What was the point in the bipolar story if it was "Hey, take your meds" and then only ever mentioned again during JAZZ HANDS?  Bipolar is an illness that needs constant maintenance through both medication and therapy.  Especially if you keep putting yourself in to unnecessarily stressful situations (murder, prison escape, looking for the towels).  

 

Lol@towels remark.

 

I agree they didn't do much with the bipolar story, which is a shame.  BUT, the thing with Sonny is, he has what we used to call an "Axis II" diagnosis - a personality disorder.  There are no meds for that.  And, since he seems to have a personality disorder, it's not likely he would ever go to therapy - their whole shtick is "not my fault, everyone else is bad".  But of course they never made that clear, probably don't even think that, and Kevin the Shrink isn't around to opine on it (not that he ever did).

 

You're so right about the stress.  I don't know how Sonny could ever minimize his stress level aside from leaving the mob.  But stress is a huge trigger for mood swings, even with meds, and...oh forget it.  It's hopeless, I know.  If MB cared so much about helping people with bipolar disorder through storylines (which he boasted about in an interview), there is so much more he and the writers could have done.

 

I wish they would just stop writing stories with mental illness, because they don't know what they're talking about. 

[HipOldBat]

True, Michael isn't going to murder someone to get back at Sonny but he is going to take something(s) away from him in the name of justice. A variation of "an eye for an eye".  I think Avery is first up then Sonny's legit business, maybe even go after Carly's half of the hotel. I would love for him to call Jax to initiate a custody battle over Joss with Carly.  Hit them where it hurts - their possessions, which is the only thing Sonny and Carly care about. And make no mistake about it, Avery is a possession just like Jason and Michael were to both Sonny and Carly.

 

 

Agreed.  And that will be so awesome.

[scotlore]

Today's episode  - I actually stood up and clapped for Michael. All these clowns trying to get him to feel grateful for a dad like Sonny and he is all "S.T.F.U.!"

Him shoving Tony Jones right up Julian's nose, I was all "YAASSSS!"   #QuartermainePride     

Don't worry I have got my umbrella and my special boots for the massive amount of mud the writers will likely sling against Michael shortly. #GHVETWatcherinDisappointingWriting  #AllQuartermainesMustLoseAgainstSonnyIt'sCanon.

Edited February 12, 2015 by scotlore

[hypnotoad]

 

he should care that he killed an innocent man and broke part of his "beloved" son's heart in the process.

 

Yep, biggest issue with this entire storyline. Sonny and Carly just don't get it. Michael isn't mad because Sonny grounded him. Sonny murdered is bio-dad and isn't the least bit sorry about that. He's sorry he was caught and that's it. Carly happily tried to cover it up and again isn't the least bit sorry.

 

I have no problem with people telling Michael 'listen revenge isn't good for the soul.' But that's not what they are doing. They are basically telling him to get over this betrayal like it happened 20 years ago. It hasn't even been a year!

 

Shoot, the least Sonny and Carly could do was pretend they are sorry. That might bring Michael back closer to them.

 

And now Sonny is a hero? Because he took a bomb from Michael and dove into the water with it? Seriously? And Michael should feel good about this turn of events? Sonny confessed to murder. Everyone knows he did it and yet he's out of prison in mere months?

 

This show ...

[HipOldBat]

 

And now Sonny is a hero? Because he took a bomb from Michael and dove into the water with it? Seriously? And Michael should feel good about this turn of events? Sonny confessed to murder. Everyone knows he did it and yet he's out of prison in mere months?

 

 

 

Yeah, because AJ had a substance abuse problem.  Apparently that is a capital offense in CrazySoapLand.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Don't forget, he was also fat. Because Sonny (and his moobs) are so skinny, I guess.

[Harmony233]

Yeah, because AJ had a substance abuse problem.  Apparently that is a capital offense in CrazySoapLand.

I never understood this why AJ was treated so badly for this.I mean I know it was differnt writers but I can't help but compare it to Lee Baldwin alocholsim.They didn't treat him like he was horrible for having that problem. I just don't understand why AJ is portrayed as a terrible person for having this problem.

[TeeVee329]

I really do not understand why Michael couldn't have commiserated about Sonny's pardon with Ned, AN ACTUAL QUARTERMAINE.  I mean, hell, they were in the same place at the same time, but nothing.  Why did they both have to talk to Olivia instead?

 

And will we ever get to see Monica's reaction to this travesty of justice? 

 

Previews...just the glimpse of Liz and Nik in scenes tomorrow annoyed me.  Stay away from each other!

Edited February 11, 2015 by TeeVee329

[DayPlayerAtKellys]

re: Maxie's job: OK, Ron you get this one for free - Michael hires Maxie to art direct an internal ELQ magazine/website which she can also write some lifestyle puff pieces. This gets her a job that she can always/never be doing but lets the fans feel that she's not just mooching off of Mac. That also puts Maxie in new orbits (Michael, Ned, Tracey) which will generate story, new connections and give her occasion to wear fab outfits.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

Seriously. She acts like AJ was running around town shouting, "I got away with it! I got away with it!" STFU, Olivia.

 

If someone murdered someone that I loved, I wouldn't really care that they might be swimming in guilt and not having the time of their life after they got away with it. At the time, I don't think it was necessary for Olivia to think "Well at least he feels guilty." I'd be thinking "Fuck him, I hope he suffers." She had a right to hate AJ at that time, just like Michael has a right to hate Sonny now.

 

 

I know it is unpopular but Sonny IS Avery's father and a wealthy mature man. There is no way he should have to beg that mooche Kiki to see or have his own child. I don't care that he is a mobster. I've yet to hear one legacy child on this show grow to adulthood without being shot, kidnapped, wrongly in jail etc. So Sonny is no worse for Avery than any of the other adults in PC. If Ava was free and alive there would be no question she should parent her child and the same should hold for Sonny.

 

Most legacy children on this soap and others do not go through nearly half of the crap that Sonny's kids have been through. Most kids are usually not seen (or in the case of young Jason and AJ sent to boarding school.) Those that stick around and actually are shown on-screen a decent amount may go through some traumas like a kidnapping, but most of them don't get shoot in the head or have their fathers shot their mothers in the head while they're giving birth or have their dads almost kill them in a car bomb. Look at Molly. I think she went from a toddler to being sorased to pre-teens, but she had a relatively normal childhood and ever since than hasn't even been kidnapped (I don't think as far as I can remember.)

 

As far as the other adults. I can think of several adults far better suited to raise a child than Sonny. Mac, Ned, Olivia, Dante, Lulu, even Nathan are far better suited and with a lack of cold-blooded murder on their hands.

 

Kiki may be a mooch and a liar, and maybe not the brightest bulb in the drawer, but she's still a more fit parent than Sonny. Biology doesn't mean Sonny gets automatic dibs on Avery.

 

 

I don't fault Sonny for not caring about Monica or AJ b/c as far as I can see very few people in PC feel that way either so to me he is one of the crowd.

 

Who cares about other people and their opinion, or lack their of, of AJ, Monica or any of the Quartermaines. Those people didn't murder AJ, those people didn't rob Monica of her child. If we're to believe Sonny is racked with guilt and is a worthy parent, he damn well should care about someone's opinion other than Michael's.

 

 

Yes, it is sad but I see Maxie as just about that naïve and manipulative, cynical and opportunistic. Plenty of people wonder how she supports herself, other than living off others (usually men). It's too bad that the judge was depicted as so extreme in his criticism of Maxie; it seemed to me that he was picking up some definite personality and moral traits from her behavior that hinted at deep-seated problems.

 

I'm still not sure how you make the leap from Maxie not having a job to her screwing her father. Yeah, that sort of sick thing happens in real life, but I'm not sure what you've seen on-screen that would suggest Maxie would go that far. Quite frankly, I'm not that concerned with Maxie's lack of employment, but even if I was there are a lot of other options for how she gets money than jumping to that icky conclusion. 

 

Maxie had a job for years and I think it's only within the last couple of years that she hasn't worked. She hasn't spent her whole life living off of men. Maybe she's gone back to pushing drugs. I highly doubt that either, but it's a hell of a more likely than her having sex with Mac. Judging Mac and Felicia from how they are on-screen, they're more likely to just give Maxie whatever she wants.

[Ambrosefolly]

And will we ever get to see Monica's reaction to this travesty of justice?

Either they well have her kiss Sonny's ass for "saving" Michael, she will get one little scene like right after Sonny was arrested for AJ's murder to bitch about Sonny being free so RC can do the bare minimum or she will be on a cruise. It won't be as it was when AJ first returned and she got to slap Carly.

If someone murdered someone that I loved, I wouldn't really care that they might be swimming in guilt and not having the time of their life after they got away with it. At the time, I don't think it was necessary for Olivia to think "Well at least he feels guilty." I'd be thinking "Fuck him, I hope he suffers." She had a right to hate AJ at that time, just like Michael has a right to hate Sonny now.

 

Which is precisely why that little speech that Olivia was stupid in light of its purpose. She knows exactly what it feels like when justice is perceived to be not done, and Sonny was just given a full pardon for murder barely an hour ago. Michael hasn't done anything remotely illegal or even irrational to Sonny and in fact was going to someone to find a legal way to get Sonny's pardon blocked. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[Turtle]

Yes, why haven't we see any of Monica in all this? AJ was her son and only living child, after all. Oh, right- how Monica feels isn't related to how awesome Sonny is. Stupid show. They waste so many opportunities to show compelling stories but instead give us dumbass shit like whatever is going on with the LoD instead for over a year.

I have no problem with people telling Michael 'listen revenge isn't good for the soul.' But that's not what they are doing. They are basically telling him to get over this betrayal like it happened 20 years ago. It hasn't even been a year!

Michael's only known about it for three months. Everyone just needs to give him a break. I don't see Michael seeking revenge, he's just sick and tired of Sonny getting away with ruining people's lives. Michael should join this forum.

[HeatLifer]

Is anyone else at the point where they can't even debate Sonny's "humanity" 'cause it gives you rage blackouts? Lol, I'm there.

[Lola16]

 Maurice really is the baby whisperer. Baby Avery looked so at home in his arms and the way he got her to smile and giggle was just too sweet. If only Sonny would be regulated to holding and charming babies only once a week or so I might be able to stomach him.

I think I have a fever.  I thought Sonny looked kinda hot today.  And how Avery was so excited by him... yum...  Must be running a temp.   Then the fever subsided when he said he'd be by the next day to pick up his daughter.  Fork off!   Who is going to watch her?  Carly?  Shawn?  Duke?    How long has Kiki been raising her?  2-3 months?  Freaking A, Kiki should pack up and take off with the baby.  Gah.

 

All she said she had was a few 20's in her wallet, so it's not like it was a lot.  I'm gonna guess it is running around money given to her by Mac.  I see no problem with it.  I would love for her to have a job, but unless Jax or Julian are going to re-boot Crimson, I don't want to see her doing something just to do it.  I loved her in Crimson mode, I think it's what she does best.  But for her to do that, she'd probably have to move to NYC.

I'm sure it's an allowance.  Maxie could always start a fashion blog.  Make money from online ads.  Get free fashion samples.  Gives her tons of free time to do whatever she does.   And Johnny didn't need to swipe the entire keychain, just the car key.    While I'm on the Maxie train of thought, why were they putting together the crib in the living room when there's another bedroom?

[HipOldBat]

re: Maxie's job: OK, Ron you get this one for free - Michael hires Maxie to art direct an internal ELQ magazine/website which she can also write some lifestyle puff pieces. This gets her a job that she can always/never be doing but lets the fans feel that she's not just mooching off of Mac. That also puts Maxie in new orbits (Michael, Ned, Tracey) which will generate story, new connections and give her occasion to wear fab outfits.

 

I think that's a terrific idea.

[jsbt]

Yes, it is sad but I see Maxie as just about that naïve and manipulative, cynical and opportunistic. Plenty of people wonder how she supports herself, other than living off others (usually men). It's too bad that the judge was depicted as so extreme in his criticism of Maxie; it seemed to me that he was picking up some definite personality and moral traits from her behavior that hinted at deep-seated problems. 

 

He was. She does have problems. Maxie is a screwed up, deeply imperfect person. That being said, none of that has to do with Mac Scorpio getting blowjobs from the kid he's raised since she was a toddler.

[Box305]

They should make Maxie work at the Floating Rib. 

 

Yeah, okay.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Box305

[HipOldBat]

I never understood this why AJ was treated so badly for this.I mean I know it was differnt writers but I can't help but compare it to Lee Baldwin alocholsim.They didn't treat him like he was horrible for having that problem. I just don't understand why AJ is portrayed as a terrible person for having this problem.

 

I think the people most vocal about this are the Sonny apologists.  On FB they scream "AJ was a drunk POS" every time anyone says Sonny shouldn't have shot him.  And, "AJ didn't raise Michael!" Completely forgetting how that whole mess came about.

 

Maybe it's because it's late (midnight here), but I can't recall any character trashing AJ for drinking, except Snarly.  And AJ was more of the "stumbling around" intoxicated person, whereas I don't recall Lee being that obvious with it.  No matter what the reason, though, it's unfair to crap on anyone for that, in real life or on TV.  I would have thought audiences had matured a bit more than that...what am I saying?  I think I just need to go to bed now!

[sometimesfan]

I never understood this why AJ was treated so badly for this.I mean I know it was differnt writers but I can't help but compare it to Lee Baldwin alocholsim.They didn't treat him like he was horrible for having that problem. I just don't understand why AJ is portrayed as a terrible person for having this problem.

 

Lee wasn't fat though. Big difference. HUGE!

[slayer2]

Just popping in to see what my GH peeps are up to and if the show is as dreadful as it ever was (post Wendy Riche) and now with the discovery of a newly murdered Ava, I see that it is. Looks like y'all could use this. Since I'm on the barge

 

and this

 

 

and finally this

 

 

 

Rock and Dock babies, rock and dock forever.

Edited February 11, 2015 by slayer2

[ch1]

Honestly I think AJ's biggest crime was that he was perceived as weak.  Weak seems to be a reason to be murdered.