S02.E01: Axis Mundi

[shapeshifter]

During the opening scene with the cave woman, was I the only one who thought that maybe this was current time, and the cave people were some sort of back-to-basics cult, and that the hands reaching for the baby would belong to a modern person, with the camera pulling back to reveal the dead cave woman lying on a beach with buildings and whatnot in the background?

^^(that was an epic run-on sentence)

Nope, me too, except her grunts sort of gave it away for me. Plus, a modern woman (such as myself) would've frozen to give the snake a chance to slither away, and then, if necessary, looked for a sharp rock to decapitate it. But I guess cave mother didn't have a lot of experience with tool making.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Are You Ready To Get Left Behind With The Leftovers? Again?
The Leftovers is back! Are you excited about that? You might want to be.

[represent]

 

Was she a newborn when Nora found her?

Nora said that the baby was Justin's character's, I forgot who she said it to.

 

Did she say that she found her? When did she say this?

[lezlers]

Based on Lily's age, it's been several months. It's hard to determine her age when she's being held all the time, but size-wise, she looks anywhere from 10-15 months. Was she a newborn when Nora found her?

During the opening scene with the cave woman, was I the only one who thought that maybe this was current time, and the cave people were some sort of back-to-basics cult, and that the hands reaching for the baby would belong to a modern person, with the camera pulling back to reveal the dead cave woman lying on a beach with buildings and whatnot in the background?

^^(that was an epic run-on sentence)

 

I thought the exact same thing.

Nora said that the baby was Justin's character's, I forgot who she said it to.

 

Did she say that she found her? When did she say this?

 

The baby was left on Kevin's doorstep.  Nora answered the door and the baby was sitting there in a carrier.

[ShellSeeker]

I really liked it. I was very curious about how they'd reboot the series, but so far it looks promising. 

 

The actor who plays John did a really good job when he was at the palm reader's house...he was vaguely threatening and menacing and the whole scene was really tense. I was also completely creeped out by the scene with the garbage disposal, because I've got a weird phobia about those. I think my mom must have put the fear of God into me about those when I was a kid after I stuck my hand into one or something. I've always been terrified to reach into them and either use a kitchen utensil to get something unstuck or make my husband do it.

 

Lots of weird, unsettling things going on in that town: the daughter running naked through the woods, the bird buried in the box, the lady in the wedding dress, the dude sacrificing the goat in the diner....I hope these are all seeds planted with the intention of being explained or tied into the story somehow later, instead of just random strangeness for the sake of creating atmosphere.

 

And of course I love Regina King, and her character really surprised me when she was stitching up the palm reader after John and his crew tossed him out the window of his house, and told him, "If you were who you say you are, you'd have seen this coming." So obviously she knew what John was planning and didn't have a problem with it.

 

And what was the deal with that pie?

[Cardie]

Nora said that the baby was Justin's character's, I forgot who she said it to.

 

No, Nora told Mrs. Murphy that Jill was Kevin's daughter. When Evie asked whether Nora adopted Lily or slept with a black man, Nora didn't reply.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Based on Lily's age, it's been several months. It's hard to determine her age when she's being held all the time, but size-wise, she looks anywhere from 10-15 months. Was she a newborn when Nora found her?

During the opening scene with the cave woman, was I the only one who thought that maybe this was current time, and the cave people were some sort of back-to-basics cult, and that the hands reaching for the baby would belong to a modern person, with the camera pulling back to reveal the dead cave woman lying on a beach with buildings and whatnot in the background?

^^(that was an epic run-on sentence)

I definitely thought that too.

I was also thrown off by the fact that (IMO) the Pleistocene Native American looked European/Caucasian.

As the mother of an infant (and someone who is pretty afraid of snakes), that whole intro was really hard to watch. I had to look away once the snake started crawling over the baby.

[Clanstarling]

The theme song was so different I reversed and listened to it again. I liked it, particularly the visuals (the wedding dress woman could have been the bride with the disappeared groom). And there were some girls jumping in a lake - younger than the ones who went missing in the show, but maybe there's a theme to the theme...It may be on the nose, but it sounded liked something a post-disappearance band might write and perform.

 

The first 10 minutes were so very last season Lost that I almost gave up, despite the theme song. Once I realized she was a cavewoman, that is. I initially thought she was part of a cult too. 

 

But...I think I like it better than the first season. At least so far. The family is intriguing - the boy seems the only straight-forward character. I want to know more about them, and I hope the girl isn't gone forever, as I'd like to hear her sing again. I love how the father/husband keeps you off balance and his background doesn't seem consistent with what appears to be a fairly happy family life. They don't seem to be afraid of him at all.

 

The father's deep sleep and the girl's "epilepsy" made me think maybe they would have disappeared along with the rest - but there was something that kept them tethered.

 

As much as I love Chris Eccleston, of all the first season characters, his is the one I could do without. His American accent is kind of terrible, and the character in general isn't one I care for much. Though given I was enjoying it without any of them, I guess I wouldn't have minded if they switched up the cast completely.

What are the Orange signs that are on people's homes/doors. It almost looks like a quarantine sign but I couldn't make out what they said.

Since I buzzed through season 1 a while ago could someone remind me of the Reverends's story? He was telling people's secrets, that's all I remember.

They looked a lot like the foreclosure signs I see all over my town. Maybe they're similar - but those were people who got run out by the Fire Captain, without having to burn down the entire house.

Edited October 6, 2015 by clanstarling

[HumblePi]

Last year I 'suffered' through most episodes. I was tired of watching the Guilty Remnant people in their white suits chain smoking and writing down messages on a pad of paper they each carry around. They were like a clan of Joe Camels meet Pillsbury Dough Boy. There were too many unanswered questions. '

 

I absolutely loved the beginning of this episode with the ancient cave woman giving birth then dying of a snake bite. The woman standing over her and picking up the baby and carrying it away, coincidentally it turns out to be the lovely grotto that the 3 girls are having a swim in many years later. I also like the location Miracle, Texas which has had zero departures so far. The grotto water seems to be something magical, mystical, mysterious and other words that begin with the letter 'm'.  How strange that the local Reverend cut Matt Jamison off when he began to talk about his wife, Mary. Poor Mary, at least she's up in a wheelchair with open eyes now and I have it on good authority that she will 'wake up' again this season.

 

For a first episode I was interested enough to watch again next week. As long as it doesn't become too contorted and bizarre that I can't follow it anymore, then I'll lose interest.

Edited October 6, 2015 by HumblePi

[shapeshifter]

The father's deep sleep and the girl's "epilepsy" made me think maybe they would have disappeared along with the rest - but there was something that kept them tethered.

Good (and likely) catch. I missed that possible connection.

 

As much as I love Chris Eccleston, of all the first season characters, his is the one I could do without.

While I don't remember the specifics, I do seem to recall posters and reviewers mostly finding the season one episode that featured him to be one of the best. Can anyone back that up? Or correct my memory?

[editorgrrl]

While I don't remember the specifics, I do seem to recall posters and reviewers mostly finding the season one episode that featured [Matt] to be one of the best. Can anyone back that up? Or correct my memory?

I'm a Christopher Eccleston fan, but I don't like the Rev. very much. His accent sounded different to me this episode. Not any better, just different.

I only found Matt interesting when he helped Kevin bury Patti's body in episode 10, "The Prodigal Son Returns." In the previous episode, "The Garveys at Their Best," we learned Matt's a cancer survivor, and his wife was paralyzed in a car accident when everyone disappeared.

Until Nora mentioned it, I'd completely forgotten they're siblings.

[Clanstarling]

Good (and likely) catch. I missed that possible connection.

 

While I don't remember the specifics, I do seem to recall posters and reviewers mostly finding the season one episode that featured him to be one of the best. Can anyone back that up? Or correct my memory?

I did like Eccleston's character at first, but I think his fervor and insistence on "outing" the departed just wore me down (in addition to the bad accent).

[Mindymoo]

While having a love/hate relationship with the first season (there were episodes I completely loved, and episodes I wanted to kill with fire), I was 100% drawn in with the opener. The new characters are fascinating, though Evie's epilepsy doesn't look like any epilepsy I've ever encountered. I was upset about Matt's treatment though, and confused. I mean, when he was cut off by the pastor about what happened with Mary, and when he told John a seemingly edited version of what he planned on telling the congregation... What the hell was that about? I know some tired of Matt, but even when I didn't like what he was doing, he was one of the most intriguing characters of the first season and I didn't like him being shut down like that! And Mary does seem to be in a better physical state, so why not share that with the congregation that he will be leading while the pastor is gone for awhile? You'd think that it would make the flock more faithful, no?

[Cardie]

I'm pretty sure that if you mention any supernatural feat going on in Miracle, like the handprint psychic reader, John and his firefighter pals pay you an unpleasant visit on the scale of one to five, and everyone knows his happens. The regular pastor feared Matt would say that Miracle had (partially) healed his wife via its resident hocus-pocus.

[Pallas]

Yes, John seems to be a Man of Science character, within the town and within his family. As fire captain he puts out flares of mystical practices, ranked as 1 - 5 alarms. What Erika was referring to, when she chided him for working on his birthday. She understood that while she was tending to the meat, John planned to grill the new neighbors, assessing why they'd come to town.  

 

As the town's enforcer of empiricism, he seems to be operating in at least a semi-officlal capacity, with maybe some added zeal. Like Kevin as police chief, taking on the Guilty Remnant. The secluded older man who Michael visited -- and a previous poster surmised was John's father -- may mirror Laurie (or Kevin Sr.) in his estrangement from John. And he could be the man that John didn't try hard enough to kill. 

 

Did Erika lose her hearing on October 14th?  Or was John in prison during the Departure? Did he see that the worst, the best and the middling of the inmates and guards were taken or left behind, completely arbitrarily? If so, he may come to find some common ground with Matt. But first he's going to obstinately search the earth for missing water.

[loki567]

I'm surprised to see Christopher Eccleston simply for the reason that he's walked away from a lot of television going into their second seasons because he didn't want to get typecast. I liked Matt, I especially liked in the latter parts of season one how he threw some of the Guilty Remnant's passive-aggressiveness back at them.  

 

I can't think of any other show on television that just completely befuddles me. I mean that as a compliment. I have no idea where this show's going this season, what'll it look like in season three, let alone seasons five or six if they get there. 

[shapeshifter]

As the town's enforcer of empiricism, he seems to be operating in at least a semi-officlal capacity, with maybe some added zeal. Like Kevin as police chief, taking on the Guilty Remnant.

Didn't Kevin have more sympathy than zeal for the Guilty Remnant because of his estranged wife being with them? Or did he hate them for seducing her away? I don't recall.

John is so mecurial that it's hard to tell yet if he really believes all practicers of spiritism should be burned, or if he just uses his mantle of fire chief to carry out personal vendettas--and maybe have a little firey "fun" when the mood strikes too.

[Empress1]

No, Nora told Mrs. Murphy that Jill was Kevin's daughter. When Evie asked whether Nora adopted Lily or slept with a black man, Nora didn't reply.

I'm pretty sure Evie asked Jill that, not Nora. (I get the impression that Evie's parents wouldn't tolerate her asking Nora if she "fuck[ed] a black guy.") Evie's brother was horrified when Evie said it and I don't think Jill responded. The adults were separated from the kids then. But I don't think Nora and Regina King discussed Lily's parentage either.

[Save Yourself]

Did the writers lift the idea of having fireman setting houses on fire as punishment from Ray Bradbury's 'Fahrenheit 451'?

Was anyone secretly scared that the indigenous women was going to turn and see all The Departed (who have been conveniently teleported back through time)? I was really worried they going to pull something that ridiculous.

[shapeshifter]

I'm pretty sure Evie asked Jill that, not Nora. (I get the impression that Evie's parents wouldn't tolerate her asking Nora if she "fuck[ed] a black guy.") Evie's brother was horrified when Evie said it and I don't think Jill responded. The adults were separated from the kids then. But I don't think Nora and Regina King discussed Lily's parentage either.

I'm not sure either, but it may have been that Evie asked Jill if Nora "fuck[ed] a black guy." Either way, although Jill didn't give a verbal reply, she did laugh openly in response before Evie's brother cut the conversation off.

Did the writers lift the idea of having fireman setting houses on fire as punishment from Ray Bradbury's 'Fahrenheit 451'?

Had to be, right? I'm wondering if a character will point that out.

Was anyone secretly scared that the indigenous women was going to turn and see all The Departed (who have been conveniently teleported back through time)? I was really worried they going to pull something that ridiculous.

Don't give Lindleof any ideas!!! Edited October 7, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Pallas]

Didn't Kevin have more sympathy than zeal for the Guilty Remnant because of his estranged wife being with them? Or did he hate them for seducing her away? I don't recall. John is so mecurial that it's hard to tell yet if he really believes all practicers of spiritism should be burned, or if he just uses his mantle of fire chief to carry out personal vendettas.

 

You're right; the police chief/fire captain parallel is more a contrast than a parallel, at least in what we've been shown so far. Kevin began last season trying counter-measures against the Remnant, and getting out-maneuvered for his trouble. But at first he was at pains to stay within the bounds of conventional policing, and tried to keep the peace. Meanwhile the show presented the Remnant's remorseless provocations without explanation, just as Kevin experienced them: we were meant to sympathize. Kevin's frustration passed into fury after Laurie showed up at the family's "new" house to serve him with divorce papers; again, we saw a man becoming desperate with his responsibilities on the job (where he seemed the only voice of reason) and at home (where wife, father and stepson had all gone AWOL).  

 

Right now we have no idea what John's beef is with spiritualism: all we've seen is how it drives him; he's the one who looks remorseless and unfathomable. He gets Regina King for a wife, and is embraced by his family -- a true-believer son who's still no Tom, and an independent daughter who's still no Jill. They respect him at the same time they sometimes work around him. That's almost the sense I get about his place within the town, in contrast to Kevin's having been ignored, or condescended to. In Miracle, John seems more publicly and privately respected (and/or feared) than Kevin could hope to be in Mapleton. 

 

The water vanished. In Michael's test tubes, Evie's thermos and the scientist's samplings too?

[Wouldofshouldof]

S2.01 was better than the entire first season, IMO.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Was anyone secretly scared that the indigenous women was going to turn and see all The Departed (who have been conveniently teleported back through time)? I was really worried they going to pull something that ridiculous.

 

At least I would have been actually genuinely surprised by that.  Some of the weird behaviors in Miracle just seem to be there for the sake of being weird.

[represent]

 

I'm not sure either, but it may have been that Evie asked Jill if Nora "fuck[ed] a black guy." Either way, although Jill didn't give a verbal reply, she did laugh openly in response before Evie's brother cut the conversation off.

Nora told Erika that the baby was Kevin's when those two were by the grill, she made it sound like she wasn't playing mom and that Lily belonged to him. And it was Evie who asked Jill if Nora "fucked a black dude."

[dr pepper]

sorry. if you have to go back to the stone age to retcon, i'm out.

[Irritable]

Some of the weird behaviors in Miracle just seem to be there for the sake of being weird.

 

 

Yes, and this is what kind of kills me about this whole show.  I am intrigued by the weirdness of the characters, and because the acting is good, and the way the show is presented gives me this constant feeling of dread but only just enough that I can bear it, I stick around week after week.  Only to be disappointed when some of the most mysterious moments end up being just arbitrarily scattered around for atmosphere, and are never explained.  For instance, I desperately need to know why that bird was buried in the ground inside a box, and why it didn't die.  I'll be pissy if that is never addressed.

[shapeshifter]

Only to be disappointed when some of the most mysterious moments end up being just arbitrarily scattered around for atmosphere, and are never explained.  For instance, I desperately need to know why that bird was buried in the ground inside a box, and why it didn't die.  I'll be pissy if that is never addressed.

Just guessing: Maybe it was dead when she buried it in "Miracle" soil, and now It's Alive(!).

[Helena Dax]

 Loved the parallel between  what happened to the Paleolithic Girl and what's happening to the show's characters.  When PG loses all  her people, she just can't understand it,  just as the survivors can't understand  what happened. When she sees that eagle/hawk/whatever, she thinks it's a sign; she clutches the feather she's wearing as a pendant. It's something the survivors  are  doing now  too, looking for signs, for explanations.  But as  PG  finds out, those signs don't really mean anything. When she sees the bird  again,  it's signaling her own death. And people  in Miracle are now finding  out that  being spared from the  departure doesn't really mean anything. They  aren't special, they just got lucky  once.

 

Also, I thought it was pretty clear that the earthquake had opened a hole in the lake and the girls had been sucked into it, but   I hadn't realized the locked car is weird. Could the earthquake have caused that?  

 

I loved the twins, but  their parents.... Not so much. He's  an asshole and she seemed to be totally okay about burning houses down and beating  people. They  were interesting,  though.

 

I want to know more about the guy living  on the top of that pole XD Post-departure world is full of  weirdos. 

[shapeshifter]

When she sees that eagle/hawk/whatever, she thinks it's a sign; she clutches the feather she's wearing as a pendant.

I missed that (tiny screen).

I thought it was pretty clear that the earthquake had opened a hole in the lake and the girls had been sucked into it,

That's what I thought too. It was odd that there were still a few fish flopping around. That is what they were, right? (Again, tiny screen)

[Cardie]

Yes, fish. (Big screen.)

[dr pepper]

ok, i had to come back to acknowlege one good thing-- the stoneagers were dirty and had stringy hair, unlike the ones in so many other shows that are all squeaky clean and freshly combed. Props for that. But since i bailed just after the second cavewoman picked up the baby and we panned back to current time, i have no idea if anything else was good.

 

ok, bye.

[Fleegull]

The girls sitting in stony silence in the car made it seem like in retrospect they were "performing" for the researcher's benefit. They were acting the way one would expect teenage girls swimming together to behave, gently teasing each other and openly flirting with the guy. It made me wonder if they knew something was up at with that swimming hole all along. Couple that with the naked running in the woods and it's this season is already 100% more interesting to me than last season.

[scrb]

The prologue annoyed just like a lot of things on Lost. And Perott in an interview said it was Lindelhof's idea.

You had that same weak gimmick with the somber piano music when the mother died and the baby was rescued by the other woman, who looked like Evie.

Lost used the piano music whenever they offed a regular cast member.

So they invest this place with mythic, miraculous overtones. Sound familiar?

Oh and apparently Lindelhof doesn't plan to explain everything. It's like a big FU to the viewers who trashed him after Lost.

And the new opening, shows scenes of a lot of happy people, except each scene has a cutout of the silhouette of someone who departed, with the cutout filled up by pictures of the cosmos? First season was rightly criticized for being joyless, lugubrious so Damon shows happy people, except for those who disappeared, into the cosmos!

Well there's always hate-watching.

Edited October 10, 2015 by scrb

[izabella]

The girls sitting in stony silence in the car made it seem like in retrospect they were "performing" for the researcher's benefit.

 

That part was really weird to me, as well as the flashes of naked teen girls running through the woods.  I know there are a lot of weird things on this show, but the car scene and the running girls stood out for me the most.

 

I also hated the cavewoman thing.  Why was that necessary or important?  How is that linked to what's going on today?  I hated that shit on the last season of Lost, and I hate it here too.

 

Otherwise, I'm in.  No annoyingly silent stalkery white jump-suited smokers was a huge relief.

[shapeshifter]

That part was really weird to me, as well as the flashes of naked teen girls running through the woods. 

I couldn't help but think the naked running teen girls served only to fulfill an HBO quota for a sexually titillating nude scene that the woman giving birth did not when screened by test audiences. Probably not the real reason for the naked running, but it's what it made me think.

 

I also hated the cavewoman thing.  Why was that necessary or important?  How is that linked to what's going on today?  I hated that shit on the last season of Lost, and I hate it here too.

It might just be Lindelhof tripping, but Helena Dax's interpretation makes sense:

Loved the parallel between  what happened to the Paleolithic Girl and what's happening to the show's characters.  When PG loses all  her people, she just can't understand it,  just as the survivors can't understand  what happened. When she sees that eagle/hawk/whatever, she thinks it's a sign; she clutches the feather she's wearing as a pendant. It's something the survivors  are  doing now  too, looking for signs, for explanations.  But as  PG  finds out, those signs don't really mean anything. When she sees the bird  again,  it's signaling her own death. And people  in Miracle are now finding  out that  being spared from the  departure doesn't really mean anything. They  aren't special, they just got lucky  once.

[Rockfish]

For some weird reason, I was in the small minority that loved the first season--I loved the sense of dread, the weirdness, and many of the characters. And although the criticisms were completely valid, they were easy for me to hand wave away. But I almost turned it off during this season's prologue for two reasons: a) seemed way too Lostesque to me and 2) I was so stressed out with worry for that baby.

I was happy to see the messed up Garveys and Nora in this new setting, and the actor playing the fire chief is so good. Friendly and charming one second, menacing the next. I figured he's trying to root out anyone who preys on others or benefits financially by exploiting people's faith, which is why the current reverend cut off Matt's story. But who knows?

I'm looking forward to more, and hopefully some of the mysteries will be explained.

[Mindymoo]

I was happy to see the messed up Garveys and Nora in this new setting, and the actor playing the fire chief is so good. Friendly and charming one second, menacing the next. I figured he's trying to root out anyone who preys on others or benefits financially by exploiting people's faith, which is why the current reverend cut off Matt's story. But who knows?

I never felt Matt did that, though. He drove away what looked like 95% of his congregation and was getting assaulted on a regular basis. He completely lost his church. Don't you think the pastor would have properly vetted someone before bringing them in to be the leader of the church while he was gone, knowing the kind of stuff people like the fire chief does?

[Cardie]

The fire chief was going to be OK with the palm reader as long as he admitted that he was faking it. His son was careful not to ascribe any magical properties to the Miracle water. So I think he's trying to extinguish any suggestion that there's something supernatural going on in Jarden rather than trying to stamp out fraud.

[thuganomics85]

Finally got around to seeing this.  I had heard that the new season was changing things up, but the new credits and the entire cavewoman sequence totally threw me there for a second.  Had I not known I selected the show On Demand, I would have thought I was went to the wrong channel.  Interesting though, but it took a bit of getting use too.

 

Having the focus mainly on the new family, instead of the Garveys or anyone else in S1 was an interesting take, but I thought it worked.  Regina King and the actor playing John were both great, and I found them compelling, even though both of them seem shady as all get out.  John apparently has no issues using his fire squad to further whatever goals he has, and Erika seems perfectly content with that.  Curious to see what their deal is.  The kids were both likable enough.

 

The BBQ with the Garveys (and Nora) and the Murphys, was perfectly awkward.  Can't wait to see more of these families clashing and bonding (I'm pretty sure the Murphy son is totally crushing on Jill.)

 

The idea of one town not having anyone disappear is an intriguing idea.  I can buy that a lot of folks would think something supernatural is going on, and would want a part of that.

 

A bunch of random stuff I hope is addressed: the woman in the wedding dress, the goat sacrifice (everyone's reaction makes it seem like it happens all the time), the naked running (it's HBO!), and the homeless guy that lives in that makeshift tower.

 

Certainly didn't miss the Guilty Remanent, although with Ann Dowd still in the credits, I'm guessing Patti will be back on some level (flashbacks or visions, I guess.)

Edited October 11, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Rockfish]

I never felt Matt did that, though. He drove away what looked like 95% of his congregation and was getting assaulted on a regular basis. He completely lost his church. Don't you think the pastor would have properly vetted someone before bringing them in to be the leader of the church while he was gone, knowing the kind of stuff people like the fire chief does?

I agree with you about Matt. I just felt that the reverand wasn't sure what he was going to say, so he stopped him just in case he was going to blurt out something that wouldn't be okay. But, I'm just guessing.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Rockfish

[Save Yourself]

Had to be, right? I'm wondering if a character will point that out.

I hope they do say something about Farenheit or it's going to really annoy me - *somebody* in Miracle has to have read that book right?!

Don't give Lindleof any ideas!!!

Oh god, I take it back! Please find your own ridiculous scenarios DL!

[WearyTraveler]

The fire chief was going to be OK with the palm reader as long as he admitted that he was faking it. His son was careful not to ascribe any magical properties to the Miracle water. So I think he's trying to extinguish any suggestion that there's something supernatural going on in Jarden rather than trying to stamp out fraud.

 

I agree, which is why the wife and the bird made sense to me.  She put a live bird in a box and buried it, by all the known laws of nature, the bird must have died after a certain amount of time passed and it ran out of oxygen, but the bird is alive.  So, something miraculous / supernatural is going on in Jarden.  The wife kep the bird a secret because she knows what her husband's "job" is, she knows that he apparently doesn't believe in the supernatural, and she knows what he does to people that do believe in that, so she did her little experiment in secret.

_________________________

 

My take on the prologue with the cave woman was all about symbolism and the human like characteristics we, as a society, attribute to our gods.

 

At the beginning, I think the cave woman attributed her salvation from the cave-in to the eagle.  She stayed outside longer than she had to because she was watching the eagle flying.  Had she done her business and gone back to the cave immediately, she would have been dead like the rest of her group.  The fact that she had a feather in her necklace, indicated to me that her tribe already worshipped the eagle, or considered it a deity of some sort.

 

Later, when she's parched, she sees the eagle again and follows the direction it's flying, and she discovers water.  Again, I think we are meant to believe that she thought the eagle had led her there.

 

Notice that she then climbs a tree and eats a bird's egg right off the nest. Then she sees the baby and the snake and climbs down from the tree to protect her child. And then she gets a snake bite.  That's the kind of thing primitive (and not so primitive) societies would interpret as a punishment from the gods.  I can hear the legend in my head of Alara (to give her a name) betraying the god that helped her when she ate the egg (that was the god's own child), and the god sending a snake to take her life; an eye for an eye, one life for another.  I believe that's what we are meant to think she was thinking as she lay there dying, looking up at her god.

 

Just like today when people have a close call they attribute their save to the god or gods they worship, and when something bad happens to them, they ask their god or gods why.

Edited October 13, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[shapeshifter]

Wow, WearyTraveler, your interpretation of the cave person's story makes total sense. Assuming that was what we were supposed to get out of that scene, it's pretty sad that nobody else has mentioned it yet here. I missed it. Maybe it would've helped if I didn't watch on my iPad Mini.

So is there a greater connection between the two bird stories?

Snakes are symbolic of Satan in Judeo Christian writings. This depiction seems to refer to Snake Handlers--I think only the "pure of heart" are believed to be able to "handle" snakes and not get bit.

The biggest parallel, to me, is the prehistoric woman and Nora both finding miracle babies.

Edited October 15, 2015 by shapeshifter

[WearyTraveler]

Wow, WearyTraveler, your interpretation of the cave person's story makes total sense. Assuming that was what we were supposed to get out of that scene, it's pretty sad that nobody else has mentioned it yet here. I missed it. Maybe it would've helped if I didn't watch on my iPad Mini.

So is there a greater connection between the two bird stories?

 

Well, I think it's because my brain, when it sees something that needs interpretation, keeps working on it in the background, and then brings that interpretation up to my attention.  Notice that it has been several days since the episode aired, and I'm only just posting that idea now! It takes some simmering, I guess :D

 

I hadn't thought about possible connections between the two birds, but now that you mention it, it's quite possible, as the bird we saw in present time was small (i.e. baby).  I think there's a running theme of mothers protecting their children, no matter what, and what happens when they feel they didn't do enough for their child.  Last season we saw Laurie devastated because she lost her unborn child during the disappearances and then possibly changing or at least heading in the direction of recovery because of her children.

 

This season we started with two mothers (a human and a bird) doing everything to protect their children.  Then we moved to Regina King's character (can't remember her name now) "failing" to protect her daughter and I'm guessing we'll see Carrie Coon's character (what the heck is up with me today?!) trying to protect her child, even if she didn't come from her womb.

 

I think this season has potential (but I'm one of the rare birds, pun intended, who liked last season).  I love trying to make sense of the puzzle and exploring the most ragged emotions of human beings (loss, rage, depression).  Also, I love exploring religious, philosophical and supernatural themes, so, there's that.

[izabella]

Also, I love exploring religious, philosophical and supernatural themes, so, there's that.

 

As long as you're content to speculate without any answers from the show, and are content that all your speculation won't really mean anything because the weird is just there to be weird,, then you'll enjoy this.  I just can't get sucked into speculating when the show runners have already said they won't be giving answers to the mysteries, so I find the stuff like cavewoman irritating and useless.. 

[WearyTraveler]

As long as you're content to speculate without any answers from the show, and are content that all your speculation won't really mean anything because the weird is just there to be weird,, then you'll enjoy this.  I just can't get sucked into speculating when the show runners have already said they won't be giving answers to the mysteries, so I find the stuff like cavewoman irritating and useless.. 

 

It's a good intellectual exercise for me.  I don't need to be right or have my theories confirmed / denied.  It's the exploring that is fun, adding information, fitting pieces together, taking them apart, use what I already know about these subjects or learning more about them.... Yep, I'm a freak.

[shapeshifter]

It's a good intellectual exercise for me.  I don't need to be right or have my theories confirmed / denied.  It's the exploring that is fun, adding information, fitting pieces together, taking them apart, use what I already know about these subjects or learning more about them.... Yep, I'm a freak.

Freak, prophet, poet, armchair philosopher, whatever--please do continue to post your revelations, theories, observations, musings etc.

[WearyTraveler]

Made me blush!

[Cardie]

You're not a freak, just a humanist textual critic. Many works of art convey meaning symbolically rather than spelling it out. Lost made perfect sense as a parable of lost souls finding salvation. The problem was the insistence on the events being literally true and then scrambling to make sense of them with explanations that were either absurd or stupid. Not giving explicit answers is the right way for The Leftovers to go.

I read the prologue as you did, though didn't express my interpretation as well as you did.

[quangtran]

 He drove away what looked like 95% of his congregation and was getting assaulted on a regular basis.

I got the impression that the reason why Matt's church was empty was because people geneally lost faith after the rapture, this rapture being not at all like the one decribed in any biblical text.

 

The girls sitting in stony silence in the car made it seem like in retrospect they were "performing" for the researcher's benefit.

That part was really weird to me,

I read several comments from people finding that scene wierd, so I must be the only person who thought that was completely normal, akin to the final scene in The Graduate where elation can turn into dead air.

 

As long as you're content to speculate without any answers from the show, and are content that all your speculation won't really mean anything because the weird is just there to be weird,, then you'll enjoy this.

I don't agree that people having to come up with their own ideas means nothing, because I feel like this was the writer's intention in the first place. Instead on giving us concrete answers in the first season, they would simply give us enough information to come up with our own conclusion, and that any good idea is the right idea.





For example:


Why did Laurie abandon her family?

☐ her marriage was dying and her husband cheated on her

☐ she became depressed after her fetus disappeared

☐ remembering her meeting with Gladys, she felt like her family didn't need her anymore

☐ all of the above


 

Why did Nora pay prostitutes to shoot her?

☐ she just wanted to feel something

☐ she was punishing herself

☐ she thought being closer to death would put her closer to her family





Was Holy Wayne in any way magical?

Yes - His healing hug did help Nora get better and he granted Kevin’s wish of getting his family back (if that was his actual wish).

No - He was just a con man who wanted to have sex with underage asian girls. His hug to Nora was, in her words, just a shortcut.

 

Was god testing Matt?

Yes - All the bad things that have happened to Matt was because he was being tested by god (like the story of Job) and any good luck he's received (like winning all that money) was his faith being rewarded.

No - A pigeon is just a pigeon.

 

Even though I expect some answers to the season long mysteries and no answer in regards to the actual departure, I actually love that they demand full engagement from the viewer so that we come up with our own anwers and ideas. I'm currently okay with all the wierdness in Miracle as long as I get enough info (no necessarily answers) later on.

Edited October 15, 2015 by quangtran