Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[millennium]

I know there's a portion of the transgender community who's totally up in arms about this (I talk with a trans friend on another board who's been telling me this for months).  A lot of them HATE Bruce Jenner--who's thrust himself forward as their undesignated public representative--but have to bite their tongues a lot because they feel they need to convey unity.

 

AND:

 

The implication he has (according to my friend) is in the way he's been trying to create a new reality show around his transition. A lot of people in that community are very wary of the whole Kardashian trash effect spilling over into what they see as deadly serious business with them and their struggles being taken seriously and not as a circus.

 

I don't blame them one bit for hating him.  

 

Does anyone recognize the name Amanda Simpson?   She's the first transgender woman ever to become a Presidential appointee:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Simpson

 

A far better example to introduce the public to the transgender community and to demonstrate that transgender people can be upstanding, contributing members of society.

 

You think Amanda Simpson will ever get a two-hour sit-down with Diane Sawyer?

 

No.   Instead it's goddamn Bruce Jenner, the man who kills women with his car.

Edited April 8, 2015 by millennium

[DangerousMinds]

Yes, unfortunately, Bruce will never be able to escape his association with the Kartrashians, and that's the main issue, IMO.

[Kromm]

Yes, unfortunately, Bruce will never be able to escape his association with the Kartrashians, and that's the main issue, IMO.

He's far from blameless when it comes to that association. If there's a loss of respect for him all around, it could be to a large extent "you reap what you sow".

 

It gets into this sticky territory that most minorities also get into, where you're portrayed as a traitor of some type if you express even a little disapproval of someone who's been made a banner-waver for your group.  Ergo, some people in the trans community are going into this knowing that they've got no choice now.  Bruce isn't just in the spotlight, but grabbing at it, and they'll all be judged against him for good or ill.  And unlike Bruce being judged against the Kardashians, that association is completely out of their hands.

[millennium]

I think Jenner's enough of an asshole that nobody in the community seriously needs to worry about expressing disdain.

[Kromm]

I think Jenner's enough of an asshole that nobody in the community seriously needs to worry about expressing disdain.

But then there's the reverse problem of the general public not separating out Jenner's assholery from the rest of the transgender community.  We'd all like to say that people are more reasonable... but really they aren't.  It happens with gay people a lot--one massive fucktard like Perez Hilton ruins a lot of tolerance for many others (and that's a case where Hilton is competing with TONS of other less assholish gays in the public forum, whereas Jenner has far less company).

[millennium]

Yes, unfortunately, Bruce will never be able to escape his association with the Kartrashians, and that's the main issue, IMO.

Even if he weren't, I would ask who he thinks he is to appoint himself poster child for the transgender community. He's exploiting his fame to seize a public role he doesn't deserve and has not earned.

It's a farce. Jenner's not being interviewed for two hours because he's transgender -- it's because he's rich and famous and transgender. The unspoken subtext is Here's a guy who had everything: looks, fame, wealth, Olympic medals -- and now he's got this screwy idea he's a woman. Let's put it on TV. So they trot out Diane Sawyer, who's very good at nodding seriously and appearing to look concerned, but in the end it's all just a very upscale freak show.

Starring a man who killed a woman just a few short months ago.

But then there's the reverse problem of the general public not separating out Jenner's assholery from the rest of the transgender community. We'd all like to say that people are more reasonable... but really they aren't. It happens with gay people a lot--one massive fucktard like Perez Hilton ruins a lot of tolerance for many others (and that's a case where Hilton is competing with TONS of other less assholish gays in the public forum, whereas Jenner has far less company).

I can't dispute that.

Edited April 25, 2015 by OnceSane

[nexxie]

Even if he weren't, I would ask who he thinks he is to appoint himself poster child for the transgender community.    He's exploiting his fame to seize a public role he doesn't deserve and has not earned.  It's a farce.  Jenner's not being interviewed for two hours because he claims to be transgender -- it's because he's rich and famous and claiming to be transgender.

Bruce has done nothing "to appoint himself poster child for the transgender community" - perhaps the media has done that (though I've yet to see such a claim), but Bruce is simply allowing herself to be. That's something for the transgender community to celebrate - and the rest of us too!

[Kromm]

Bruce has done nothing "to appoint himself poster child for the transgender community" - perhaps the media has done that (though I've yet to see such a claim), but Bruce is simply allowing herself to be. That's something for the transgender community to celebrate - and the rest of us too!

You don't think specifically deciding to declare himself as part of a huge TV special isn't a calculated move on his part?

 

As I said, I believe the trans community, according to my friend, is afraid to say too much, due to what I referred to before laughingly as the Al Sharpton effect, but some criticism has leaked through to the public arena despite that.

 

Here's one that came through the scummy TMZ outlet a few months ago, then again most of the reporting ON Bruce and the Kartrashian Klan is through TMZ anyway:  http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/07/bruce-jenner-transgender-community-angry-tv-show-video/

 

If you read a lot of the other opinion pieces out there from transgender people, there seems to be hope that simply having such a high profile person go through it will help, but some trepidation at the difference between an Olympic Hero being the model people choose to follow vs. the sad figure that's been on reality TV the last few years.

[nexxie]

You don't think specifically deciding to declare himself as part of a huge TV special isn't a calculated move on his part?

 

In my opinion it's a calculated move as a previously famous individual who has been in the shadow of a big, noisy, controlling family and who wants to step back into the light on his own terms. He has said nothing about representing the transgender community - he's one person telling one story. Hopefully, he won't hurt the collective cause - but, in any case, Bruce has a right to speak.

[millennium]

In my opinion it's a calculated move as a previously famous individual who has been in the shadow of a big, noisy, controlling family and who wants to step back into the light on his own terms. He has said nothing about representing the transgender community - he's one person telling one story. Hopefully, he won't hurt the collective cause - but, in any case, Bruce has a right to speak.

 

No, Jenner has MORE right to speak than other deserving individuals who could actually do some good, for no other reason than Jenner is rich, famous and entrenched among a bunch of very successful famewhores.    Jenner knows this and is exploiting it for cash and attention.

[nexxie]

No, Jenner has MORE right to speak than other deserving individuals who could actually do some good, for no other reason than Jenner is rich, famous and entrenched among a bunch of very successful famewhores.    Jenner knows this and is exploiting it for cash and attention.

Bruce Jenner was a famous athlete long before he married KK - he's not "exploiting" anyone; he's taking an opportunity to tell his personal story his/her way. Sour grapes don't help any cause.

[millennium]

Nor does grape Kool-Aid.

[nexxie]

Nor does grape Kool-Aid.

Is there some official "Kris Jenner of the Transgender Community" control freak that people have to answer to before telling their personal stories?

Bruce's story is as authentic as anybody else's - isn't that what gaining rights is all about?

[Kromm]

We'll see if Bruce has any insight into the extensive medical costs of transitioning.  The dangerous interpersonal/social/public aspects of someone who can't afford to hire personal security and live behind big estate gates.  The pressures of being such a person in a normal job.  Etc.

 

Bruce's story isn't illegitimate or inauthentic. It's just that it's a glossy breezy easy view of the situation from something of a mountaintop. There are problems admittedly that are unique to Bruce that apply pressure that others won't have, like dealing with paparazzi and the media, although to a great degree that's a self-created problem connected to the association with the Kartrashians (because while he was a celeb long before them, he was one of the legion of ex-athletes that only garnered occasional media attention when a good story appeared and who otherwise had mostly been ignored).  

 

I can gain respect for Bruce if at least SOME of that 2 hours winds up being invested in talking about general transitioning issues and an acknowledgment that he knows he's got it easy in comparison.  We shall see if that happens.  One can hope, right?

BTW:  I'm going to continue to use "he" for Bruce until we hear if he's picked a new female name.  I admit to not knowing the exact "rules" on this (I never asked my acquaintance) but its what makes sense to me. We change the pronoun when the transitioned person has made it clear they feel their identity has changed enough to merit it. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Kromm

[nexxie]

Yes, Kromm, one can hope!

There are so many variables, not just fame and money. The more stories we get to hear - the better.

[millennium]

I don't need to hear any story from a man whose carelessness or self-absorption resulted in the death of a woman minding her own business.   Amid all the hype of the female life Jenner's about to begin, the public has rather conveniently forgotten the female life he ended.

[Kromm]

I don't need to hear any story from a man whose carelessness or self-absorption resulted in the death of a woman minding her own business.   Amid all the hype of the female life Jenner's about to begin, the public has rather conveniently forgotten the female life he ended.

Diane Sawyer hasn't been a credible journalist in years, but even she seems like she'd have an obligation to ask, and push Bruce, to talk about this subject.  Of course it will be mainly spin, but frankly, that's the "up side" of it being 2 hours. There's no way it could be credibly dodged like it might be in a typical 10-15 minute long interview.

[millennium]

I don't know.   I read things like what someone said above, he's had breast augmentation and is going to reveal it on the show, and I think about that poor woman, dead, and it all makes me sick.

[ginger90]

I'm thinking the  2 hour show isn't much actual show. First the commercials, of course. But I'm thinking it will be presented as a biography with clips from the past throughout. I'll probably record it, and I hope the presentation is done with good taste.

[iwasish]

I'm thinking the 2 hour show isn't much actual show. First the commercials, of course. But I'm thinking it will be presented as a biography with clips from the past throughout. I'll probably record it, and I hope the presentation is done with good taste.

The true test will be how is it handled on the E! show. There good taste is in very short supply.

[Artsda]

Diane Sawyer promo.

http://ca.eonline.com/news/644907/first-look-at-bruce-jenner-s-interview-with-diane-sawyer-watch-the-promo-clip

 

http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-diane-sawyer-interview-second-promo

Edited April 15, 2015 by Artsda

[howmanywords]

Last night during Dancing With the Stars they showed a new promo for the Diane Sawyer interview. This one is a bit longer than the one thats been out there and you see Bruce sitting with Diane and you can tell just how long and feminine his hair his, and he says something along the lines of "all I'm concerned with is my family, I cant let myself hurt them". I'll definitely be watching this.  I have a feeling this might be more intriguing than the E special.

[iwasish]

Last night during Dancing With the Stars they showed a new promo for the Diane Sawyer interview. This one is a bit longer than the one thats been out there and you see Bruce sitting with Diane and you can tell just how long and feminine his hair his, and he says something along the lines of "all I'm concerned with is my family, I cant let myself hurt them". I'll definitely be watching this.  I have a feeling this might be more intriguing than the E special.

I read  somewhere that his oldest 4 kids will be on with him, but the two younger girls will not. I can kind of understand that, it has to be difficult for them.  And if it's true that Kris isn't dealing well with it, they may feel mixed loyalty. 

[ginger90]

Is the interview a stand alone show or is it on 20/20 or something like that?

[Meghansmom]

It's a stand alone show ginger90.

 

[RealityCowgirl]

I re-watched Sawyer's "Sound of Music" special one more time before deleting it from my DVR last night. Good lord, that was painful (Has she always been that bad?). I shudder at the prospect of how she'll muck up this interview.

But yeah, I'll probably record. Whether I watch will depend on descriptions here about the size of the train wreck. ;)

[GaT]

I bet any fines (if any) these people have to pay for publishing these pictures won't be as much as how much they make from them

http://www.gossipcop.com/bruce-jenner-dress-photos-new-york-daily-news-cover-woman-pictures/

[Artsda]

Cops are after them.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/21/bruce-jenner-paparazzi-illegal-photos-cops-called/

 

The pictures they sold:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/bruce-jenner-dons-dress-malibu-home-article-1.2193697

Edited April 22, 2015 by Artsda

[nexxie]

Nice dress for lounging around the house - she has a good sense of style!

[Shangrilala]

Since when does Bruce smoke?

[Artsda]

After the divorce when everything else changed, before he was all team health & fitness.

 

The dress I do like, I do wonder if I've seen it before though. Reminds me of something of Khloe's.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Artsda

[Maire]

Why does Bruce want to look like a Kardashian :(

[nexxie]

Why does Bruce want to look like a Kardashian :(

How does he look like a Kardashian?

[MarysWetBar]

Since when does Bruce smoke?

I know- remember the episode where they were trying to shame Kris into quitting?

Kendall pretended she was smoking out back to make her Mom feel bad??

Bruce was WAY over the top disgusted about Kris' smoking.

God this bunch- all for show, hey?

[GaT]

Since when does Bruce smoke?

He's been smoking for a while, that's what he was doing during the car crash & he was seen buying cigarettes last year, so this isn't anything new for him.

[iwasish]

Since when does Bruce smoke?

He's been seen smoking in pics several times.

Not to defend the paps, but considering the press this story has gotten and the interview approaching this week, if he didn't want to be photographed, he could have been more careful. He was aware the paps were staking out the area. It's sad that he doesn't have the privacy he should, but then he's participated in a show for years that has helped create the huge business paparzzi pictures have become. He was a part of a family who decided as a group to live their lives on camera and in public. Their choice, a choice that has brought them huge financial rewards and allowed others to make money also.

[Artsda]

How does he look like a Kardashian?

The black and white? It made me think it came from Kris. lol

Also perhaps this?

I thought it was Khloe's dress, but it's different.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Artsda

[nexxie]

The black and white? It made me think it came from Kris. lolAlso perhaps this?I thought it was Khloe's dress, but it's different.

But millions of women wear striped dresses. I thought maybe it was about surgery or something.

[nexxie]

Bruce resembles Kendell in that dress shot.

[GaT]

 My first thought was that somebody should have told him that horizontal stripes make you look fat, am I going to Hell?

[nexxie]

My first thought was that somebody should have told him that horizontal stripes make you look fat, am I going to Hell?

I thought of that too, but then figured he can wear stripes with such slim hips.

[iwasish]

My first thought was that somebody should have told him that horizontal stripes make you look fat, am I going to Hell?

I see Bruce's female style as a combination of Holland Taylor/Glenn Close along with Kate Hepburn/Lauren Bacall. I don't see girly girl stuff. I doubt he will stop riding his 4 wheeler, helicopter or motorcycle. It will be interesting to watch the change evolve. I do think it will have a big affect on his relationships with the Kardashians. I don't see Kim as supportive except as it makes her look good. I don't think I've ever seen Bruce with Kanye, so I doubt there is a relationship there, and from his comment to Kim about bonding with North and her rather indifferent response, I don't think that's going to happen. He is Kourtneys kids grandfather so it will be interesting to see if that bond is retained.

[Kromm]

The black and white? It made me think it came from Kris. lol

Also perhaps this?

I thought it was Khloe's dress, but it's different.

 

So the Kartrashians are all going to old-timey jail?

 

We could hope.

[GaT]

The black and white? It made me think it came from Kris. lol

Also perhaps this?

I thought it was Khloe's dress, but it's different.

So nobody told any of them about horizontal stripes? It's not like anyone in this family needs to make their asses look wider.

[mwell345]

 

Not to defend the paps, but considering the press this story has gotten and the interview approaching this week, if he didn't want to be photographed, he could have been more careful. He was aware the paps were staking out the area. It's sad that he doesn't have the privacy he should, but then he's participated in a show for years that has helped create the huge business paparzzi pictures have become. He was a part of a family who decided as a group to live their lives on camera and in public. Their choice, a choice that has brought them huge financial rewards and allowed others to make money also.

 

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I very much question the timing of this photo.   As you said, he's aware the paps are around, he would have to figure a picture of him in a dress would make headlines, and yet he strolls outside his house in one just days before his interview, thus insuring more publicity for his interview and more viewers, because I'm sure plenty of people who didn't plan on watching have changed their minds. 

 

And if thats not enough, he gets the police involved.  Because,you know, this is his first experience with the paps and he can't handle it (rolls eyes).

 

I don't think you live with the Queen of Media Whores for 20 years and not learn a thing or two about media manipulation.

Edited April 23, 2015 by mwell345

[iwasish]

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I very much question the timing of this photo.   As you said, he's aware the paps are around, he would have to figure a picture of him in a dress would make headlines, and yet he strolls outside his house in one just days before his interview, thus insuring more publicity for his interview and more viewers, because I'm sure plenty of people who didn't plan on watching have changed their minds. 

 

And if thats not enough, he gets the police involved.  Because,you know, this is his first experience with the paps and he can't handle it (rolls eyes).

 

I don't think you live with the Queen of Media Whores for 20 years and not learn a thing or two about media manipulation.

I have to agree. He's gotten this far without being seen and I'm sure they have been watching him carefully, suddenly he's overcome with the desire to stroll outside?

Could be that he's anxious to start living his new life and is being deliberately careless, almost wanting to be seen. Even the place he chose to move to is a perfect set up to be spied on, way moreso that the house in Malibu. Also, the family has a habit of talking about all their personal life and about each other, in front of all their staff and the crew. Who's to say someone on staff isn't making a few dollars selling inside information to the paps. Kris herself is a blabbermouth  as is Kim according to lots of what we've seen on the show.  Bruce was well aware the paps were there, he warned them that he would call the police, yet he still strolls outside in a dress? Even if they are hit with fines... what was made on that photo will well cover it. 

[hendersonrocks]

I appreciated seeing this--the National Lesbian and Gay Journalism Association issued an open letter to press/media outlets ahead of Bruce's interview with Diane Sawyer to advice/give guidance on language. I hope outlets listen. 

[MargeGunderson]

I have to agree. He's gotten this far without being seen and I'm sure they have been watching him carefully, suddenly he's overcome with the desire to stroll outside?

Could be that he's anxious to start living his new life and is being deliberately careless, almost wanting to be seen. Even the place he chose to move to is a perfect set up to be spied on, way moreso that the house in Malibu. Also, the family has a habit of talking about all their personal life and about each other, in front of all their staff and the crew. Who's to say someone on staff isn't making a few dollars selling inside information to the paps. Kris herself is a blabbermouth  as is Kim according to lots of what we've seen on the show.  Bruce was well aware the paps were there, he warned them that he would call the police, yet he still strolls outside in a dress? Even if they are hit with fines... what was made on that photo will well cover it. 

 

It's also a good teaser to his upcoming interview with Barbara Walters. I bet most of the media reports about this included mention of the upcoming interview.

[iwasish]

It's also a good teaser to his upcoming interview with Barbara Walters. I bet most of the media reports about this included mention of the upcoming interview.

The word is he won't appear in woman's clothing during his interview. This could be his way of making the reveal. I guess it's less shocking than having him arrive unannounced at Kasa Kardashian "Hi Kris, I'm home! Let's all us girls have a slumber party, I brought my nightie!!

Edited April 23, 2015 by iwasish

[nexxie]

The word is he won't appear in woman's clothing during his interview. This could be his way of making the reveal. I guess it's less shocking than having him arrive unannounced at Kasa Kardashian "Hi Kris, I'm home! Let's all us girls have a slumber party, I brought my nightie!!

Ha! That would actually be a fun scene to watch!