S17.E40: Episode 40

[Guest]

I don't think it's important, but it is curious, isn't it?  I'm fine with Steve winning.  Against Liz, it makes sense.  

But the pattern might be telling us something..  

Are there some underlying attitudes driving it?  It's good to take note of and watch for.  

 

I think the only thing 4 male BB winners in a row tells us is that for the past 4 years, the players the BB juries have felt most deserved it happened to be men.  Even if you toss a coin 20 times, you're not going to get 10 heads and 10 tails without repetition.  4 of one in a row isn't that fishy.  And this isn't pure 50/50 odds like that is.  Like was said, the women are cast for their bodies or their dimness half (or more) of the time.  It doesn't mean BB is rigged by patriarchal racists or anything.  It means America tunes in to see pretty (mostly white, young) people say and do stupid things.  

 

Liz's "Sigmund and Freud" comments and her mediocre-to-bad jury answers and her tugging at her little bodice to keep her right boob in all night probably didn't affect the jury but they made me understand why she only got three votes.  

[CrazyDog]

Ha! It kind of feels like watching a twisty, suspenseful whodunit filled with intrigue and red herrings - only to find out it was the kid picking his nose in the background the whole time.

Perfect description :)

[Artsda]

Vanessa voted for Liz? Ridiculous.

[Brian Cronin]

I think the only thing 4 male BB winners in a row tells us is that for the past 4 years, the players the BB juries have felt most deserved it happened to be men.  

 

I think Steve was a more deserving winner than Liz, but I think it is way more complicated than "it just happened to turn out that way." 

 

The fact that the show casts certain types of women IS an issue. And it is a shame that in a season where they actually got a better group of women, they STILL ended up with a male winner. 

 

That said, Steve was the clear choice over Liz. I don't even know how you make a real case for Liz over Steve.

 

They were part of the same alliance, so that is neither a credit nor a debit to either one of them.

Steve won more competitions, including the most important one of them all.

Steve had better (if hilariously awkward) relationships with the people outside of their alliance. Austin was always the point person for the Austwins, not Liz, as Liz could barely work up the effort to even feign interest in anyone other than her key alliance.

 

Had Liz won, it wouldn't have been ridiculous, as she had a fine resume - Steve just had an EXTREMELY similar resume, just a little bit better in every case. More comp wins, better relationships, he was the better pick. 

 

Now if only Vanessa had won that stupid crapshoot (the final HoH being a crapshoot is re-donk-you-less). 

[backformore]

I really enjoyed seeing Steve  get Vanessa out, and win the game.  What can I say?   I'm a sucker for nerdy-boys.   This will be the highpoint of Steve's life, I"m happy for him.

[Guest]

The fact that the show casts certain types of women IS an issue. 

 

But this show is as much about boobs and "sigmund and freud" type banter as it is about smarts.  It's summer reality pablum.  I said this in another thread but the show wouldn't last 5 minutes if they cast all Derricks and Vanessas.  No one wants to watch a house full of Jeopardy contestants all summer.  The casting says more about the viewers than the producers.  

[LoveLeigh]

Ha! It kind of feels like watching a twisty, suspenseful whodunit filled with intrigue and red herrings - only to find out it was the kid picking his nose in the background the whole time.

It was sort of like watching the finale to season 1 of True Detective. 

[mooses]

It was sort of like watching the finale to season 1 of True Detective.

Exactly what I had in mind ;)

[Brian Cronin]

But this show is as much about boobs and "sigmund and freud" type banter as it is about smarts.  It's summer reality pablum.  I said this in another thread but the show wouldn't last 5 minutes if they cast all Derricks and Vanessas.  No one wants to watch a house full of Jeopardy contestants all summer.  The casting says more about the viewers than the producers. 

I'm certainly not excusing the viewers. Of course the viewers are also at fault. America, in general, is a sexist society. It doesn't make the producers right for cow-toeing to the sexist masses. 

[Nashville]

Majority woman jury, majority woman final 3, majority woman alliances, majority of women making the power moves...

 

...and a man wins.

 

Well, we are talking about Steve here, so that does qualify the application of the term somewhat.  ;)

 

 

I really have to strongly disagree that Big Brother is a microcosm of society.  The cast is always almost exclusively twenty-somethings with an early thirties occasionally thrown in.  They are either unemployed or tend to be employed in the type of job you can easily walk away from.  They're - for the most part - famewhores looking to become reality stars.  The majority tend to be less than intelligent, and uninformed about the world in general.  The cast is always overwhelmingly white, with an Asian thrown in every five to ten years, one Muslim ever, minimal Hispanics, and one to two black HGs per season.  Casting makes absolutely no effort to fill the house in true representation of American society.

 

I could marry this post, I love it so much.

 

The fact that Steve and Liz's games were so so similar and were fairly equal is the major reason I think it's entirely down to gender/sexism,

 

Truthfully I have to disagree with the "so similar and fairly equal" appraisal:

• Liz won two "true" HoHs which resulted in the evictions of Becky and Meg.  Becky's was a "semi-strong" eviction of sorts (BBecky posed no direct threat to Liz, but was an indirect threat to members of her alliance), while Meg's was a throwaway eviction.  I'd rate that as lukewarm.
• Steve won four HoHs which resulted in the evictions of Jackie, Julia, JMac, and Vanessa.  Jackie was one of the primary physical competition threats of an opposing alliance, Julia was 1/3 of the most solid alliance of the entire season, and Vanessa was the single strongest strategic player of the season. 

 

JMac's eviction was more Vanessa than Steve - but even totally discarding JMac's eviction, Steve's HoH reigns had much more significant impact upon the course of the game than did Liz's.

 

[Guest]

I'm certainly not excusing the viewers. Of course the viewers are also at fault. America, in general, is a sexist society. It doesn't make the producers right for cow-toeing to the sexist masses. 

BB can't make America stop watching beautiful, stupid people.  The people will stop watching BB is all that'd happen.  

[Nashville]

Oh - and I was splitting my 20 votes a day 12 for JMac / 8 for James, so I was ok with that either way.  :)

[plotpointer]

Longtime lurker, but I had to post this message.  I HATE Vanessa!  Sorry, I know she's a favorite on many boards, but I could not stand her all season long.  I think she might be my most hated Big Brother contestant -- even beating out Frankie Grande.  At least Frankie was fun to hate.  He was occasionally entertaining television, albeit unintentionally.  Vanessa was just a narcissistic, self-indulgent, stuttering bore. 

 

First, her game play was totally obvious.  I could see her lying a mile away.  I have no idea how she could be a poker player.  The reason why she was able to get so far was because most of the cast was either dumb, uninterested, or socially inept.  How many times did she pull the same stupid tricks (swearing on her mother, her girlfriend, her dog -- just pathetic) or crying those crocodile tears.

 

Second, she aligned with boring, white bread individuals, which leads me to my third point...

 

Her boring, neurotic ass controlled nearly the entire game, and as a result, the entire show.  So all of the people I liked or found interesting were kicked out early because of her.  Jackie, Becky, James, Day, JMac, etc. were the ones I wanted to watch -- NOT Vanessa!

 

And fourth, there was just something really weird and creepy about her.  James kind of nailed it when he said she played too hard.  He probably should have phrased it differently, but it was like she had absolutely NO LIFE except this game.  She rarely laughed or joked or talked politics and pop culture.  It was just constant game talk, game talk, game talk.  It wasn't like she needed the money.  It's like she needed to prove something to the world and this was her one and only vehicle to do it. 

 

By the way, she's also a BIG HYPOCRITE!  Throughout the entire game, she told the other house guests not to take it personally -- that it was purely game play.  She claimed to admire those who made big moves.  Yet she votes for Liz because she's such a sore loser and a phony.

 

Anyway, I'm glad Steve evicted her butt and her sourpuss face throughout the finale made my night.

Edited September 24, 2015 by plotpointer

[Turtle]

Wonder why they didn't let Clay, Jace, and Jeff give any comments?

Who is Jace? ;-/ I think Jeff was a twist flop, and I'm guessing that on a live show it's just too hard to closed caption a furless bat.

[Granimal]

Once Steve won the final HOH, it went quickly downhill from there. I don't think Steve or Liz played a winning game. However, I figured that Steve would win because he has a penis and all. (I'm not saying that's the only reason he won or that he didn't deserve to win, merely that I expected him to win based on posts stating that a female has never won against a male in this particular competition.)

 

The jury seemed pretty bitter. (See Meg and Austin.) I'm guessing that at least some of the vote was influenced by  who the jury wanted to "lose" to- and who would want to lose a game that Liz won?  She came across very badly on tonight's episode. At least with Steve they can take solace in the fact that he was "smart". I don't think that the final speeches influenced the vote, but Liz's speech was terrible. Second only to the terrible answers she gave during the interview. However, Steve (while more articulate than Liz!) didn't give a great speech or interview either. I think the jury could stomach losing to a "super fan" a little bit easier than losing to a young female recruit who was cast because of how hot she looks in a bikini.

 

I don't understand why Austin is seen as having protected two women and himself. If this is true, then why isn't it true of Liz as well? Why isn't Liz seen as protecting 3 people in the game; herself plus her boyfriend and her sister? I realize that Austin and Julia both got booted, but they all lasted reasonably long. She also managed to stay in the house while on the block with Julia! Then again Liz couldn't even come up with that idea for her own speech. Ugh, Liz you're lucky you're cute and charismatic.

 

By and large, as a society we don't respect the person who is seen as having been protected throughout the game. While latching on to someone stronger than you can be your best bet to win BB- it's not a respected move. Even though it's worked out (very) well for the dogs and cats of the world it's not seen as a strategy in the BB house. I find it to be an interesting window into the qualities we place value on as a society. I would much rather see winners like Shelli than winners like Clay, for example.

 

It's hard for me to remain interested when the best contestant got eliminated in F3. Sorry to all who disagree, but IMO Vanessa was hands down the best player of the season.

 

Even though I don't think that Steve should've won, I was genuinely happy for him. I think the win meant more to him than the money! Also it was cute seeing him hug his mother for dear life.

 

I wanted JMac to win America's favorite. Nothing against James, but I dig the whole awkward nerdy Rockstar dentist vibe. Plus it would piss off Austin.  JMac call me!

 

Why on earth did Steve ask JMac if he had ever made out with a guy? Random.

 

I'm taking pleasure in the thought that Austin will soon be dumped by Liz. He was super creepy when he asked JMac why Liz was bonding with Vanessa. Liz is too mature for and appears to be too good of a person for Judas.

 

Julia and Liz should have just worn big signs with the word "recruit" on them and not have spoken at all. It would have made the same impression!

Edited September 24, 2015 by Granimal

[Brian Cronin]

Re-watching the episode, y'all have to freeze the faces of Vanessa and Liz during Steve's speech to evict Vanessa. Vanessa's all "Yep, he's evicting me" while Liz is all, "-------" Just a blank expression on her face. Hilarious. By the way, dude, THAT's the speech you've rehearsed for two weeks? That was weak sauce.

 

It also shows just how unobservant Liz was that she was SO shocked that Steve evicted Vanessa. I mean, it was sweet to see her be so grateful to him for taking her, but come on, lady, it should not have been a shock. And it wasn't like he was doing it to be nice to you. 

[RedheadZombie]

Did John say he protected Steve through the game? What on earth was he talking about? He never even won an HOH.

[Brian Cronin]

Did he? I thought he just said that Steve always asked him what to do. If he did say he protected Steve, then yeah, that's dumb. 

 

How funny was it that the first person who hugged Clay at the end was...Meg! :)

[nono]

 

The fact that the show casts certain types of women IS an issue. And it is a shame that in a season where they actually got a better group of women, they STILL ended up with a male winner. 

 

 

Well, the twins lasted longer than Clay.

[Dewey Decimate]

How funny was it that the first person who hugged Clay at the end was...Meg! :)

That was one of the bright spots of this episode! Once the winner became all-too-apparent, I was more invested in the various reactions, and one I was watching for was whether Clay would still appear into Shelli, so as the two sides approached each other at the end, Meg going in to glom on Clay was hilarious. And maybe I mis-saw it, but it really looked like he was NOT the initiator there, and in fact looked like he was trying to high-five her or something instead of hug. Meg and her judgment of other "players" remains both hilarious and pathetic.

 

And maybe I was super-bored by the inevitability (as the winner purely depending on who won the crapshoot, imo), but I was distracted by the carpet and coffee table at the final jury discussion with Dr. Will. The reflection of the table's side with the pattern of the carpet formed an "HOH" pattern - no joke. (Well, more of an "HOHOH" pattern.) As much as I loved this season, y'all, I'm glad it's over. Time for a break.

[BeatrixK]

I felt like Vanessa's poker reveal fell kinda flat. Making her articulate how much money she's made and what her rank is was kind of shallow and unfair to her. They would've been better off showing a few highlights of her playing poker or something. Reveal it that way to the HGs.

WSOP and WPT may not have wanted to pony up the footage - or CBS may not have wanted to pay the fees for it.  Both tend to be really pissy about how/when footage is shown, and I believe WSOP is pricey.  Given this season's low numbers, they may not have wanted to part with the cash:  Grodner needs it for next season to start some insane twist that will fizzle three weeks in and get ditched. (Yes...looking at YOU, Takeover!)

 

Steve winning - at least he kinda played.  I seriously was disappointed that Vanessa lost on a crapshoot question...but that's the game.  It did seem like there were a lot more questions - are there typically only 5, unless it's a tie going into 5?  Seemed like they added 'extra' questions.

 

Best moment for me:  The distinct die-down of applause when Austin walked out.  It was like a basket of puppies farting rainbows.  And, judging from his expression...he noticed it, too.

[himela]

Steve winning just saved this season from being one of the worst ever. The most correct thing was said by Jason; Vanessa would have played a flawless game had she owned it and felt self confident like Dr Will and Mike Boogie. All in all it seemed to be a really fast finale, the crowd was not much, as always some houseguests did not even have the time to talk and the approach to the anticipated finale of the season was as always superficial. After finishing 17 seasons of Big Brother US and having watched the three season of BB Canada this summer, I have to say BB Can is ages ahead in imagination, the houseguests picked, the host, the twists, the quality.

 

Grats Steve, you deserved it.

[Petunia13]

That was one of the bright spots of this episode! Once the winner became all-too-apparent, I was more invested in the various reactions, and one I was watching for was whether Clay would still appear into Shelli, so as the two sides approached each other at the end, Meg going in to glom on Clay was hilarious. And maybe I mis-saw it, but it really looked like he was NOT the initiator there, and in fact looked like he was trying to high-five her or something instead of hug. Meg and her judgment of other "players" remains both hilarious and pathetic.

.

Clay and Audrey have had a thing since he went home.

I hope this is THE END of the Battle of the Block bull shit fucking up the game boredom.

They'll got do Allstars next year but all the past winners want more $.

[Eolivet]

So the jury voted for Steve because he wore plaid and had glasses, and Liz wore a low cut dress, and had an annoying accent? Not buying it.

 

I think how they presented certainly had something to do with the vote, because that's how society works. It's a job interview for a half-million dollars. They come in with a resume and then have to answer questions. I don't find Steve's resume head and shoulders above Liz's. But it was a job interview, and I'm saying she was never going to make the better impression. The deck was stacked against her because of external factors (who her boyfriend was, for example). I also think of the man/woman finales, this one came closest of those I've seen (from 2005 onward) to being evenly matched, comp win-wise and game play-wise. Both hid in a big alliance, behind stronger players and just survived to the end.

 

But I think Liz could've booted Vanessa and still lost. She was never going to win against a man -- any man from the jury -- regardless, because that's Big Brother. Liz, with the second most competition wins of the women, never had a shot. To me, that's depressing.

 

I can't abide by a show where the only way a woman can win is if there are no men for which to vote. Especially when there are other shows where contestants vote for the best player that don't seem to have the problem that this one does. Then I suppose that's less of a society problem and more of a Big Brother problem.

 

I've also always believed when all you can do is complain about a show, it's time to stop watching. So, I'm going to take my own advice.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Eolivet

[blixie]

Silver lining for me is that Vannesse was already D list famous w/o BB, that is going to grind Austin's gears so much. Suck it asshole.

[lookattheflowers]

I have a real soft spot for awkward nerds, so I was happy with Steve's win. IMO, it beats the past 2 seasons, which I still have an irrational hatred for Derrick. Vanessa could of had it but alas she lost the last part. Steve would have been a complete idiot if he would have taken her to F2. You could tell that this was his life long dream when Julie announced his win.

Also, happy that James won AFP!

Thanks guys for all the snarky comments, You all have provided me with many LOL moments this summer! See ya next summer!

ETA: Please for the love of God, TOTB, DO NOT bring back TOTB next year!!!!

Edited September 24, 2015 by lookattheflowers

[Chrissytd]

I think where Liz fell flat was during the. You have to convince the jury why you should win over the person sitting next to you even if you think that you played a better social/competition game. Most of answers consisted of finger snaps, and shoutouts. Steve on the other hand prepared.

Austin couldn't have been more disteresred during the questions if he tried. I have a feeling we can expect a passive tweet from him about not being in the Top 3 for AFP.

[fuzzed]

It means America tunes in to see pretty (mostly white, young) people say and do stupid things.

 

I would bet that an equal, if not greater, number of Americans would tune in to see intelligent and crafty players, of any race, ethnicity or demographic group, say and do interesting things. Just look at this season's cast of Survivor, which (arguably) viewers voted in. Although mostly white, the cast covers a much broader range of ages (average age 37.2) and more than half of them fall into the traditionally brainy category (executives, attorneys, a pilot, a chess champion, an accountant, a professor, an IT project manager, a corporate consultant).

 

It's certainly interesting that most of the Big Brother contestants who made this year more compelling than others in recent history are the ones that have more than air occupying the space between their ears.

[ghoulina]

Good for Steve! A well deserved win by a likable guy, IMO. He absolutely made the right move in booting Vanessa. I don't know what the thought process was with the jury members, but I thought the Q&A, plus final speeches really highlighted who should have won. Liz had nothing. Nothing! She was a rambling, bumbling mess. She couldn't really give answers to questions. She never really mentioned specific moves she made, just kept saying she had a "target on her back" because of the twin thing, but still made it this far. Honestly, I'd put that more on Austin and Vanessa than anyone. She was in the right alliance, that's for sure. But I don't think she even really sought out that alliance. Austin was after her, and IIRC, it was Shelli who mad the major push to get the twins in their early alliance. As Johnny Mac so hilariously pointed out - she "rode" someone else to the end. 

 

Plus, she's just so dumb. Dropping out in a final 3 comp??? Pizza's a dairy group??? What the what what?

 

But Steve...Steve really nailed it with his final speech. Well, other than almost hyperventilating and talking a mile a minute. But he was able to perfectly compare and contrast his game with Liz's, and show how he was more deserving. I truly do believe that his low key game in the beginning was intentional. Steve is just too much in his head to have not been planning this shit out from day one. He was "building layers of protection" around himself. I totally buy it. 

 

Shelli was the most astute juror ever. She really pegged everyone's game. I don't care for her much as a person, but I think she would be great at doing a blog, some commentary, something during future seasons. 

 

I was a bit surprised James won AFP, but pleasantly so. I was voting about equally for James and Jmac, as I loved them both. Good for him. 

 

The best moment of the finale? Austin comes out and the cheers die down to barely a murmur. Suck on that, Judas!

Edited September 24, 2015 by ghoulina

[TaraS1]

I stopped watching regularly when James got evicted, but I had to tune back in last night and see if the season could be redeemed by Vanessa losing.  Victory!  It says a lot about how much I hated Vanessa that I would have even been okay with Liz - a woman who spent the entire summer in bed with a sasquatch - winning the whole thing, but that's what I was reduced to by Vanessa's incessant crying, fidgeting and hypocritical, fast talking nonsense.  

 

James winning AFP was just icing on the cake.  SO happy for him!  Now I'd like him and Jason (or Meg) to do The Amazing Race together.

[ghoulina]

I don't understand why Austin is seen as having protected two women and himself. If this is true, then why isn't it true of Liz as well? Why isn't Liz seen as protecting 3 people in the game; herself plus her boyfriend and her sister?

 

JMO, but I don't think it had anything to do with gender. I didn't watch the feeds, but from what I saw - Austin played more of the social game. I saw more of him reaching out to other people, talking, trying to build relationships. Liz just seemed to want to hang out by the pool and let him do all the work. I don't really remember her having relationships with people outside her core group. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but that's why I see Austin as being more of the shield for that trio than anyone else. 

[outtahere]

Glad it's over.  Terrible season and terrible house guests.  I have watched from the first season and this is an all time low.  I'm done. 

[Ceeg]

For those of you who like schadenfreude like me, I capped the moment that Vanessa reveals she's a top all-time female poker player.

 

 

Austin is so salty, I love it. 

[Porterest]

I got tired of Austin calling Steve "the boy" before this episode even started. Thank you, Mama Day, for calling out Judas. Austin in a hat!

Vanessa could have let Audtin put on shoes? I don't think she stopped him. The surprise episode did. But if Liz had time to wake up and put on a hoodie, etc, he had time to put on shoes. He wanted to walk out barefoot, no matter what he said during this finale.

I was amused for the blindside, but it was too little given how Vanessa was more or less robbed. As aoon as they went to commercial after Steve won, I told the few watching with me that during commercial, Vanessa will talk fast to remind Steve how much better keeping her would be. I wonder if that happened?

[Christi]

Clay and Audrey have had a thing since he went home.

I hope this is THE END of the Battle of the Block bull shit fucking up the game boredom.

They'll got do Allstars next year but all the past winners want more $.

Clay and Audrey? Lol Edited September 24, 2015 by Christi

[Wootini]

Going into this finale, I knew it all hinged on who won the final HoH. And Vanessa knew she had to win it, too, because she knew there was no way Steve was taking her, and it was probably unlikely that Liz would, either, alliance be damned. Because if Vanessa was in the final two, she's winning. Hands down. It would probably even be unanimous. (Unless she was against Liz, in which case, Julia and Austin might still vote for Liz-uh.)

 

Unfortunately as always, it came down to those stupid crapshoot questions where you have to guess what a jury member might say. And they're always ridiculous. I was actually very surprised Steve pulled off the win. And at that moment, you could see Vanessa's face fall because she knew there was no way in hell she was going to the final two at that point. I thought it was hilarious looking at Liz's beaming, smiling face sitting next to Vanessa's sourpuss as Steve tried to give his speech without throwing up. So I was a little confused why Liz acted like she was so surprised Steve picked her to go with. Whatevs.

 

I feel like Steve probably had the win all sewn up anyway, but Liz really blew it with the jury questioning. She basically gave the same answer to two separate questions, and sounded like a beauty pageant contestant, not a Big Brother player. Steve was the one giving reasoned responses explaining how he actually played the game, and Liz just smiled and kept saying how she deserved it because she survived the twin twist. And oh, constantly bringing up your twin sister who you will probably share the money with probably didn't help, either. I remember at one point when Liz said "This is all for you, JuJu," and they cut to the jury where everyone was frowning and Julia actually looked like, "Oh crap, don't bring ME into this you idiot!"

 

I was also pleased that James won America's Fave. I tried voting for him, but you have to sign up for an account, and I didn't care that much, so I never bothered. I just thought James was funny and I enjoyed his pranks. JMac was too much of a put-on character. I mean, props for keeping that up all summer, but I'd rather James take the prize. :)

 

Oh, and not for nothing, but has Dr. Will been doing some work on himself? He looked like a creepy plastic Ken doll interviewing the jury… O.o

[Joimiaroxeu]

furless bat

I'm surprised no one jumped on "furless bat" for a user name. That moment was almost as good as "overwhelming no" was last season.

 

Clay and Audrey have had a thing since he went home.

Um, what kind of "thing"? (NTTAWWT)

 

I was totally surprised at John's answer to the A or B questions. It was a fine joke, but I didn't think he'd knock his profession on live TV. Ballsy!

I'm wondering if John answered that question honestly or if he was just being sarcastic. Meanwhile, Vanessa probably gave her answer based on thinking John would give a straight answer. In fact, that's the assumption that has to be made about all the questions. Next year if they use that game again I think the producers need to emphasize to the houseguests that they need to give honest, non-jokey answers since someone's game could be riding on it.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[kikaha]

By the time we reached F5, Liz was everyone's goat.  The one person everyone else wanted to take to the end.  They knew they would win, even with Liz's guaranteed two votes.  That's why Vanessa also wanted to take her.  She knew she could beat her easier than she could beat Steve. 

 

The huge glaring weakness in Vanessa's game finally bit her.  She had to win the final HOH, or go home.  As good a strategist/manipulator as she was, her poor social game put her in a do-or-die situation.  If she had made better personal connections -- if she hadn't flown off on her manic bouts so often -- it might not have mattered who won the last HOH. 

 

Someone said Liz was the victim of sexism, like Amanda in Survivor.  100% disagree.  Amanda lost that season of Survivor because when all the chips were on the table -- at the final tribal council -- she gave an F- performance.  It was far worse than what we even saw from Liz this season. 

 

IMO Steve was light years better than Liz.  The final questions and their answers to them were pretty much a microcosm of how they played the entire game.  It would have been a travesty had Liz beaten him.  I'm glad the jury saw it that way as well. 

 

Vanessa fell a lot in my esteem by voting for Liz to win.  I think that reflects why she didn't win the season.  She was not able to put herself in the shoes of the other people.  All she thought about -- all she valued them for -- was how they affected her game.  So naturally when Steve evicted her, she made the bitter vote against him.  Even though she said she planned on doing the exact same thing to him.  Listening to her tell Julie how she never trusted Steve almost made my jaw drop: she so perfectly described herself. 

 

Steve OTOH would have voted for Vanessa, had he gotten evicted.  And that IMO partly reflects why he did win.  He was able to empathize with the other HGs.  For Vanessa they were cards on the table.   For Steve they were real, red-blooded people -- mysterious and confusing at times, but people he connected with in his nerdish way. 

[Sweets McGee]

I got the impression that Vanessa's vote for Liz was more of a girl power vote, and she probably already knew Steve would win anyway. It didn't come off as bitter to me. But I haven't heard any post-show interviews yet, and if she was asked about that.

[fuzzed]

So naturally when Steve evicted her, she made the bitter vote against him. 

 

Although this was my initial thought, I actually think it was a deliberate vote for a woman. She said that her vote was for the person who "best represented" the season. I think it was an awkward way for her to herald a season with strong women.

 

ETA: Posting at the same time as Sweet McGee. One step behind. Par for the course.

Edited September 24, 2015 by fuzzed

[Ceeg]

Steve world have voted Vanessa over Liz because there was zero question who played better out of those two. The same can't be said for Liz vs. Steve IMO. Their gameplay was a lot closer.

In Vanessa's interviews, she doesn't seem bitter at all. She said Steve made the right choice and it would have been a mistake to take her. And she can't be mad bc she was planning on doing the same thing to him.

[kikaha]

Whatever Vanessa says, the fact of how she voted speaks much louder.  But call it bitter or call it sexism, either way my respect for her fell a notch. 

[laurakaye]

I'm happy with the final result.  Good for Steve for not passing out, not even once!  Except that when he bolted right after the jury questions, I thought - oh no, hope he makes it back in time.  And poor guy gets stopped in his tracks not once but twice because the audio is broken?  Stay classy, Big Brother.  SHEESH.

 

Liz actually made me a little bit angry after Vanessa was booted and she told Steve she had "nothing prepared."  Why on earth not, Liz?!  The minute you make the Final 3 is probably a good time to start thinking about what you want to say and how you want to say it.  Her answers to the questions showed just how little she prepared.  Steve, on the other hand, could give names, sequences of events, and strategy, talking just as fast as his brain could process words.

 

And Austin?  Go away.

[Guest]

Although this was my initial thought, I actually think it was a deliberate vote for a woman. She said that her vote was for the person who "best represented" the season. I think it was an awkward way for her to herald a season with strong women.

 

ETA: Posting at the same time as Sweet McGee. One step behind. Par for the course.

I figured her "best representative of the season" comment was a justification for voting for whom she liked better, and was probably referring to Liz being central in the twin twist, a showmance and both strong alliances.  Not that I agree, I think it was a bitter vote from Vanessa cloaked in an excuse.  

 

Then again, we know Vanessa ran the numbers in her head (even I predicted 6 to 3 favoring Steve) so she must've known she could've voted either way and Liz would lose, so she must've thought she looked better voting for Liz?  

Edited September 24, 2015 by Guest

[Primetimer]

The scales tip in an unexpected direction before the jury picks the winner of Big Brother 17.

Read the story

[peachmangosteen]

The best part of this ep was John losing Amerca's Fave. Loved it!

[Starla]

Yay for Steve! He didn't puke, stammer, or lose his train of thought once during the finale. As a fellow socially-awkward nerd I resonated with his weirdness all season, though I never expected him to win. Vanessa played an awesome game and would have been a great winner, but it's a pleasant surprise to see an unlikely underdog come from behind, do what needs to be done, and win it all.

 

I have a feeling that with Ian and Steve's wins, the geeks won't be able to fly under the radar in the future. Maybe they can find a good female nerd won't be seen as a threat and can pull out another weirdo win.

[escape]

It was clearly obvious that Vanessa's vote against Steve was nothing more than revenge.

 

The only reason why she was going to take Liz with her to F2 - was because Vanessa knew that was her best shot at winning.

[TimWil]

I wish Julie had asked the jurors live on air how many of them would have voted for Vanessa over Steve and Vanessa over Liz.

[Katesus7]

It did seem like there were a lot more questions - are there typically only 5, unless it's a tie going into 5?  Seemed like they added 'extra' questions.

 

They always ask each jury member one question.  Maybe there were years where there were less jury members?