S01.E04: Not Fade Away

[Ohwell]

Back to that walking turd Travis:  Who fucking JOGS while dangerous, serious shit is going on?  I hate him now.  Madison can have his ass, they belong together.  Liza deserves better.

 

And Kim Dickens.  I'm sorry, I cannot stand to look at her useless stone face and that underbite (or whatever it is, it's the way she holds her mouth), which is one of the main reasons why I won't be watching this next season.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Ohwell

[bosawks]

Spending the Apocalypse in skinny jeans just seems like a bad idea.

Edited September 22, 2015 by bosawks

[txhorns79]

Who fucking JOGS while dangerous, serious shit is going on?

 

Well, if the area is stabilized, and there's not much to do except sit around, why not jog? 

 

I think I could watch an entire episode of nothing but various characters lined up to beat the crap out of Nick.

Edited September 22, 2015 by txhorns79

[peach]

Well, if the area is stabilized, and there's not much to do except sit around, why not jog? 

 

I think I could watch an entire episode of nothing but various characters lined up to beat the crap out of Nick.

 

Kinda like this?

[txhorns79]

Kinda like this?

 

That was my exact thought!  He needs it. 

[Statman]

Back to that walking turd Travis:  Who fucking JOGS while dangerous, serious shit is going on?

 

YMMV, but I would think that maintaining cardio fitness to run away from zombies, cannibals and rapists during the zombie apocalypse is a good thing no? 

[peach]

YMMV, but I would think that maintaining cardio fitness to run away from zombies, cannibals and rapists during the zombie apocalypse is a good thing no? 

Especially if you're not going to learn how to load a gun.

[lawless]

Well, if the area is stabilized, and there's not much to do except sit around, why not jog?

 

I think the notion was that for our characters, things were building to crisis levels, they were about the flee, and if they had fled, they probably would have landed in the roads in the thick of the start of the "Great Panic" (TM World War Z), and things might have gotten very interesting -- but the military arrived, quarantined the neighborhood, and now they are in a strange holding pattern.  Have been for 9 days.  No job to get to, no errands to run, can't go for a drive, no where to go really, nothing on TV (I presume), no mail, limited power anyway, etc.....  None of the civilians seem to be working on long term survival solutions because they still don't think the world has collapsed, and the military is providing for their basic needs.  Travis in particular seems to think this is a temporary calamity and that eventually all will be set right again.  He trusts the military, or at least he did until later in the episode, and he can't seem to allow himself to consider the possibility that everything is gone, and what that really means.  To think about that is terrifying, and virtually unthinkable.  Because the military showed up, right now he doesn't have to think about it.  But I bet he's got a lot of free-floating anxiety about their situation nibbling at the edges of his mind.  Plus, he's got a house full of strangers, his resentful son, his nice ex-wife who is probably very uncomfortable in the house, his stressed out girlfriend, her junkie son and angry daughter, remnants of blood/brains on the wall, not-so-friendly army guys keeping danger out of the fence but also keeping the people in -- it all makes for a lot of free-floating anxiety and no where for it to go .  I am not surprised he feels like running.  It's his only outlet at the moment, as he fortunately does not seem to be the kind of person to take his frustrations and anxiety out on his family.  

 

It's surreal though, I agree.  I have a feeling that if he survives in the long run, he'll one day look back on this time utterly stunned at how naive he was, and how uselessly he spent his time.  I don't hate him for it though, I think it's human and it's just where they are right now in coping.  As long as he wises up eventually.  

[grumpypanda]

It makes absolutely zero sense that Nick didn't take the pill that Madison tried to give him. Even if he were feeling good at the moment he had to know that the neighbor wouldn't have morphine forever so why not pocket the pill for later.

I also don't get why Eliza would leave her only child to care for complete strangers. There's no way in hell would I ever leave my children in a situation like that.

[JenMcSnark]

Two things I was SO hoping would happen in the episode, but didn't:

The Morse code signal in the hills would be coming from Tobias

Nick's dip in the pool would get some of the grease out of his hair

That would have been totally cool.  

 

But hopefully it wasn't since whoever it was was executed.  And on 2nd thought, Tobias probably would have been too smart to signal after seeing what the "rescuers" are capable of. 

[JenMcSnark]

Another thing that made it obvious that it was gunshots at the very end was not only the gunfire flashing, but also the audible sound of gunshots in the distance.  I'm surprised I picked up the sounds because I usually miss that kind of stuff.

 

I totally didn't hear the gunshots and, to be honest, when I first read that they were audible, I thought it was probably the power of suggestion.  From what appears to me to be a significant distance, I don't think you'd be able to hear them.   However, I guess it's not "normal" LA noise there during the ZA either, so maybe you can.  

 

I actually enjoyed the episode and plan on rewatching.  I, like a few others, totally missed that Alicia was reading Susan's note.  I thought it was her speaking to her dead boyfriend and I was very confused.  :/

[Raven1707]

I just watched "Not Fade Away" again, and here is the text of Susan's note, as read by Alicia:

 

Patrick, if you find this, I’m sorry. If you find this, I love you. I saw something today, something that horrified me. First I thought it was unnatural, I thought it was an aberration, but I was wrong. What I saw was prophesied. What I saw was Godly. And I think it’s overdue. I wish you were here, but I will see you soon. You will hold me. If you find this, I am sorry. If you find this, I love you.

[oakville]

I think the biggest mistake of this episode is Chris starts out with "Nine days have passed since the lights went out". What happened during those nine days was probably some pretty compelling stuff, especially since the army says they cleared a safe zone six miles around their camp. I assume that's when things really went to hell and that's what I thought this show was about. I think Kirkman has this insane compulsion that the viewers only know what the characters know and these knuckleheads can't even be bothered to turn on CNN. It's been four epsiodes of the world ending and we know nothing more than if we hadn't watched the show at all.

Agreed. At the end of the last episode, they showed the military loading several body bags into the truck from the neighborhood. Presumably, Travis & Madison know some of them. Yet this episode opens with no comments from Travis & Madison about the loss of their neighbors. Alicia at least went to Susan's house. What about their friends, families outside of the neighborhood. They don't seem to be freaked out that 99% of everyone they know are dead. Why hasn't Chris tried to get a battery operated radio working? You don't need the internet or cable to listen to a radio. Someone may have a ham radio  to listen to overseas broadcasts.

 

I think it's unrealistic that the military would have cleared out 6 miles of homes in 9 days. It looks like they are testing the residents of the neighborhood to see if the virus is progressing. It must be airborne, otherwise not that many people would get infected so quickly.

[Emily Thrace]

I think the notion was that for our characters, things were building to crisis levels, they were about the flee, and if they had fled, they probably would have landed in the roads in the thick of the start of the "Great Panic" (TM World War Z), and things might have gotten very interesting -- but the military arrived, quarantined the neighborhood, and now they are in a strange holding pattern.  Have been for 9 days.  No job to get to, no errands to run, can't go for a drive, no where to go really, nothing on TV (I presume), no mail, limited power anyway, etc.....  None of the civilians seem to be working on long term survival solutions because they still don't think the world has collapsed, and the military is providing for their basic needs.  Travis in particular seems to think this is a temporary calamity and that eventually all will be set right again.  He trusts the military, or at least he did until later in the episode, and he can't seem to allow himself to consider the possibility that everything is gone, and what that really means.  To think about that is terrifying, and virtually unthinkable.  Because the military showed up, right now he doesn't have to think about it.  But I bet he's got a lot of free-floating anxiety about their situation nibbling at the edges of his mind.  Plus, he's got a house full of strangers, his resentful son, his nice ex-wife who is probably very uncomfortable in the house, his stressed out girlfriend, her junkie son and angry daughter, remnants of blood/brains on the wall, not-so-friendly army guys keeping danger out of the fence but also keeping the people in -- it all makes for a lot of free-floating anxiety and no where for it to go .  I am not surprised he feels like running.  It's his only outlet at the moment, as he fortunately does not seem to be the kind of person to take his frustrations and anxiety out on his family. 

 

I don't think Travis actually trusts the military, I think he wants to trust the military. Like he says to Thompson he's keeping together for his families sake. So he thinks of he keeps playing cheerleader and saying its going to be okay it will be, I don't think Travis is all that deluded he just wants what he's saying to be true. That's why he went on the roof to have his melt down so he could climb down again and go and tell Maddie they're going to get Nick back.

 

Also something that I didn't really think much of was the way the soldier boys were eyeing Alicia. I hope we're not headed to some kind of rape storyline there. That's something over used in the genre as whole. Not to mention the show is already portraying the National Guard as assholes with no people skills. Realistically most of these guys would have cycled through the Middle East at some point and would be a lot smarter about pacifying a civilian population. A huge chunk of these guys would have done all kinds of community outreach on the other side of the planet doing it in a suburb should come a lot easier.  

Although the sneak peak makes it seem like there might be some kind rebellion brewing in the ranks. Perhaps its just Moray who is an asshole

Crap now I just miss Jericho, which not only remembered that fact but exploited it for some sharp political commentary. Something the walking dead for all their pretentious poetics and biblical allusions lacks.  In fact from a writerly perspective its probably both series biggest failings that there is no overall message or commentary beyond "Humans Suck". 

[guilfoyleatpp]

To respectfully contradict the recap, more than a few Lou Reed songs are about using heroin. Although this one was used in Trainspotting (which I completely forgot about), that wasn't the first association that popped into my head.

[KirkB]

It took me a while to realize the actress playing the doctor also played the doomed reporter in the 2nd Resident Evil movie. I kind of hope her luck with zombies goes better this time.

I don't like any of the characters. I don't hate them either. I don't really care. Which is a problem. People making a show generally want you to love or hate characters. Both are strong emotions. They want you cheering for them to survive or be eaten, either way you are cheering. Apathy is not what they want, but so far it's all they're getting from me and I usually like the guy who plays Travis.

I also missed the gunshots. I was watching but I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention.

[Yolapukka]

I understand the idea that we are supposed to handwave a lot because "9 days have passed since the lights went out" but what we are hand-waving is compelling stuff, fences going up, restricted movement within, forced evacuation outside. An evacuation scene would have been a good place to show Tobias, either being taken away or hiding. I like the idea that the fall came in fits and starts, that there were periods when it looked like order was being restored and civilization could be saved. I wish they'd introduced the finished safe zone later on, perhaps made it more of a lead in to their second season. Showing was definitely preferable to telling. I don't entirely buy the notion of budget concerns either, in the last episode, the scenes of the street riot and the hospital disaster would have been costly no matter how little or how much time they were given in the final product and although I appreciate how much momentum that episode had, they could have devoted more script to using those chaotic backdrops. That sort of thing is why many of us wanted to see a show a show about the early days of the ZA, not derivative crap with a smarmy military dude practising his golf swing. I'd prefer to see scenes from the perspective of the military enforcing evacuation orders, encountering violent resistance and consequently finding themselves in a situation where it's a fine line as to whether they are the solution to, or the problem of maintaining order in a dire situation.

 

I'd rather see a few dead-end characters face something significant, than watch Madison's increasingly grating meltdowns.  I liked her increasing skepticism about the occupation, I appreciate the idea in theory that Maddie was trying to be proactive in venturing outside the perimeter fence, but not her actual actions in doing so. I liked that she interacted considerately with Chris about the flashes in the video, but that was tainted because it's not the first scene of her second-guessing his parents when she is also the same person who is so unrealistic about the capacities of her own older offspring.

Edited September 22, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Starchild]

I think the biggest mistake of this episode is Chris starts out with "Nine days have passed since the lights went out". What happened during those nine days was probably some pretty compelling stuff, especially since the army says they cleared a safe zone six miles around their camp. I assume that's when things really went to hell and that's what I thought this show was about. I think Kirkman has this insane compulsion that the viewers only know what the characters know and these knuckleheads can't even be bothered to turn on CNN. It's been four epsiodes of the world ending and we know nothing more than if we hadn't watched the show at all.

 

I notice a lot of people complaining that we missed it all - the collapse. Is it possible that hasn't even happened yet? I may be totally out in left field with this, but I'm wondering if collapse didn't happen all at once, but was more of a start-stop type of thing. We don't know how this started, probably never will....but maybe there were quite a few cases, but the military/hospitals/etc. reacted quickly and thought they got on top of it. They fenced of safe zones, quarantined people, "dealt with" those who might be a danger. Things were looking good. But then something happened. Maybe they made too many mistakes. Got too cocksure. Didn't full understand what they were dealing with. And THEN it really explodes. The military is taken down. All hell breaks loose? 

 

I don't know. Again, I could be reaching. Giving the show too much credit. But I don't know what the timeline is supposed to me. I tend to think that 9 days is still early for the entire place to have collapsed. Maybe it doesn't happen like that. Or maybe you guys are right and we just missed it all. 

The thing is, wasn't Rick in his coma for a month? And when he woke up, the fall was over. If we're already nine days in, we're already nearly half-way through that period. There are only a couple of weeks left before we arrive at the time that TWD started. Is this show just going to become another version of the show that is already on? Who needs that?

 

I was totally hoping that Nick would take a shower and change his clothes after being in that gross pool. Can you imagine would he must smell like now after nine days of being in that old guy's clothes, detox sweats, and now being in dirty, chlorinated pool water?

It makes absolutely no sense at all that Nick would still be wearing those clothes AFTER he's already taken them off to go in the pool. He's been at home for NINE DAYS! At HOME! Go into your room and put on some of your own damn clothes, geez! And if he doesn't live there, then put on some of Travis'.

[GaT]

I just got around to watching this episode because I'm not finding the show interesting enough to watch it when it's on. I kind of feel like I'm watching "Mr Robot, The Zombie Years". I don't have any idea what's going on in this show. 

[Lyra Angelica]

It makes absolutely zero sense that Nick didn't take the pill that Madison tried to give him. Even if he were feeling good at the moment he had to know that the neighbor wouldn't have morphine forever so why not pocket the pill for later.

 

That makes perfect sense what you write, but I'm not sure junkies think or plan that far in advance.

 

 

I also don't get why Eliza would leave her only child to care for complete strangers. There's no way in hell would I ever leave my children in a situation like that.

 

Travis is still there, but then again, that wouldn't make me feel like my child was in good hands either.

 

Edited:  for clarification

Edited September 22, 2015 by Lyra Angelica

[Iguessnot]

 

Also when Travis goes in to talk to Robert - both the wife and the kids are in containment outfits, supposedly because Robert hadn't been checked and yet none of the guards are. Nor do they make Travis gown up. Robert finally comes out and gets checked - why then are the wife and the kids still in containment outfits hours later after he takes off in his car?

I'm assuming those are the same girls shown in an earlier episode . They are in the back seat of the car driving by Madison who is sitting in her car giving them the stink eye. Those kids have been wearing masks for awhile, so either they are sickly or the mom is nuts.

 

In the morphine stealing scene, why did the old man have an oxygen mask on? When Liza left the house, he was not  wearing it. Maybe we are to assume the wife put it on before going out to garden, but in order for it to not look like a plot device, they should have shown Liza putting it on him.

[txhorns79]

The thing is, wasn't Rick in his coma for a month? And when he woke up, the fall was over. If we're already nine days in, we're already nearly half-way through that period. There are only a couple of weeks left before we arrive at the time that TWD started. Is this show just going to become another version of the show that is already on? Who needs that?

 

I can believe certain areas collapsed faster than others.  Just because Atlanta was already gone by the time Rick woke up doesn't mean that other parts of the country maintained some stability for a longer period.   

 

 

That makes perfect sense, but I'm not sure junkies think or plan that far in advance.

 

I don't think junkies are a monolith group in that sense.  Some probably think ahead, while others don't, just like everyone else.  Nick strikes me as someone who is good at resolving his immediate drug needs, but is not a great planner overall. 

 

As to Liza, I thought her behavior was just bizarre.  Why not just ask the doctor if she could arrange to take a later transport in order to make sure her kid was settled and okay?  I could understand her desire to feel important and needed, but didn't understand why the situation was treated as so urgent (aside from the need to create some false drama).       

[Bad Example]

I think it's interesting that both Travis and Liza seem immediately drawn to helping others or being involved somehow, and despite the criticism Chris seems to get here, he is a kid engaged in what's going on around him, and I thought his video diary was a good idea.  He understands this is a historical moment.  

 

Also, in Easily Solved Problems, Liza and Chris, and the Salazars could all be bunking up in Susan and Patrick's house.  Or Peter's.  Or the bouncy house home.  Or...

 

 

I liked Chris and his video diary, too.  It could have been much, much worse.  I just hate to break it to him that the electricity problem is probably going to get in the way of his film-making dreams.  He seems like a nice kid.  He was self-righteously teenager-y at first, but that seems to have gone by the wayside in light of actual problems.  

And the easily solved problem you mention?  Yeah.  (Although the military is marking houses, so maybe that's not possible?)  

[Save Yourself]

@lorikaui - they do have power at certain times so I don't know why they aren't going online as you said. It would be good if we had a scene where they tried to access online news, surely you'd be trying to find out as much as you could.

 

 

what portion of the net, if any, would still be working with at best intermittent power around the country and at worst many of the servers and other hardware destroyed?  In any event, the show said there aren't even landlines working into their community (and presumably no cable providers) so ... no internet for them.

 

 

100% agree, sorry, I didn't word my original response very well. I was trying to say that I wish we would either see or hear them say something, anything about trying to get information. So they turn on the computer/TV/radio so the audience can see that the infrastructure is down or get the characters to mention they have tried to find out some more info. ATM it just seems like they are not even trying to find out what is happening elsewhere which makes them seem even more stupid than they already are. I also thought if the army really are getting orders (we don't know if they have gone rogue or not) there must be some sort of communication system still up and running. Wouldn't someone have a satellite phone or CB radio, something like that? Even here in Sydney, Australia some people have them for when they are in rural areas.

You don't need br tags. One return suffices to end a paragraph, and blank lines should also be preserved. 

 

This site allows BBCode tags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode

 

Which correspond to a subset of html. But honestly, it's easier to just use the full editor and its format buttons. It also provides a preview feature.

 

A couple of courtesy suggestions:

1)There is a test zone here: http://forums.previously.tv/forum/690-test-zone/ if you want to play with formatting.

2) Don't abuse white space. We all have to scroll through a lot of posts, and the usual paragraph formatting looks great.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thank you! I thought that I did that but was doing it on my phone at 4am this morning so who knows what I was (not) thinking! :)

[tessa]

The attitudes of these folks is still bothering me. The writers missed so many opportunities in those 9 days but even if we missed it - the residents didn't. There had to be shootings, fires, traffic jams - all visible from their hilltop. Screams, cries, moans. They should still be talking to each other, voicing concerns, coming up with plans for worst case scenerios, watching the perimeters. I know they are suppose to stay put - but obviously the military isn't monitoring that close or they would have seen the Morse code flashes. We know that some of the residents are antsy and have questions. This family is really abnormal - no talking, no planning.

 

Even when we had the Oct storm here a few years back which lasted a week - lost power, land line phone service, flooded basements due to sump pumps stopping - people were congregating. helping bail out basements - loaning generators - sharing any knowledge and updates, out watching the hundreds of power company workers who came in, grilling. 

[Save Yourself]

I liked that Nick stole the morphine, even though it was horrible. I like that the apocalypse has not deterred his addiction. I like that he's trying to survive a personal demon and actual demons, and is resorting to actions he didn't think he was capable of both pre-heroin and pre-ZA. I like the idea of a separate, personal battle for survival/fight for the soul. It's the one aspect of the show I don't feel is being dropped on the audience like an anvil.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to like Madison. I misunderstood her -- it's not that she doesn't care, she just internalizes everything. Although, as much as Nick's morphine jacking was a dick move, Madison should have beat the crap out of herself for leaving the glass door open and not stealing a gun when she had the chance. And ignoring Tobias. And standing two inches from Susan, and not telling Alicia to try harder not to look like walker steak, or telling Alicia anything at all.

Ok, I am reconsidering my reconsideration.

 

You've put into words much better than I did what I like about Nick's story arc.

[Save Yourself]

I guess I feel like if the military is functioning, there's a hospital up and running, we haven't seen total collapse yet. They're still getting electricity, even if not much. They're having food delivered. There are at least 12 "safe zones". So I feel like society is still functioning on some level. Things are somewhat contained. There's still plenty of room for it to get a lot worse.

 

I hadn't thought about the the food thing, you're right, they have to be getting it delivered from somewhere. I wasn't sure with the electricity because I know LA sometimes have the rolling blackouts so I thought that maybe they were using 'that' emergency system - whatever 'that' is because I have NFI! Absolutely will get a lot worse, it's a real bummer though that it seems we have missed (or will miss) seeing LA during the collapse, that's what I was excited about seeing, the chaos of a densely populated area.

[BetyBee]

The attitudes of these folks is still bothering me. The writers missed so many opportunities in those 9 days but even if we missed it - the residents didn't. There had to be shootings, fires, traffic jams - all visible from their hilltop. Screams, cries, moans. They should still be talking to each other, voicing concerns, coming up with plans for worst case scenerios, watching the perimeters. I know they are suppose to stay put - but obviously the military isn't monitoring that close or they would have seen the Morse code flashes. We know that some of the residents are antsy and have questions. This family is really abnormal - no talking, no planning.

 

Even when we had the Oct storm here a few years back which lasted a week - lost power, land line phone service, flooded basements due to sump pumps stopping - people were congregating. helping bail out basements - loaning generators - sharing any knowledge and updates, out watching the hundreds of power company workers who came in, grilling. 

They don't act like real people would act.  Yet since they are the protagonists, I suppose we are supposed to think that they are somewhat heroic.  And maybe they will be next season.  Maybe this is a commentary on how disconnected people really are today.  I mean really - civilization has collapsed in the last 9 days and they aren't questioning anything except when will the power go back on and when will my phone work?  It's ridiculous.  And painting the living room!  That's just stupid.  People help people in times like this.  Not the Clarks though.  The Manawas are helpful to others,  but they make poor choices.  

[Save Yourself]

The thing is, wasn't Rick in his coma for a month? And when he woke up, the fall was over. If we're already nine days in, we're already nearly half-way through that period. There are only a couple of weeks left before we arrive at the time that TWD started. Is this show just going to become another version of the show that is already on? Who needs that?

 

It makes absolutely no sense at all that Nick would still be wearing those clothes AFTER he's already taken them off to go in the pool. He's been at home for NINE DAYS! At HOME! Go into your room and put on some of your own damn clothes, geez! And if he doesn't live there, then put on some of Travis'.

 

I read an interview with one of the producers (cannot remember where it was from sorry so can't reference it!) and they said that the beginning of this show is set 6 weeks before the first episode of TWD i.e. when Rick woke up. Even with that timeframe, you're right, the shows aren't that far apart on the timeline and it seems they aren't going to make the most of it being set in LA so exactly, what is the point in doing a watered down version of TWD?

 

Last night I called out 'no Nick!' twice - first when he tapped into the morphine drip and then when he had that outfit on again. Why is he wearing that again?! I was glad when I saw him in the pool, I thought thank god, he'll finally wash and put his own clothes on. Maddy should have realised that he was still using when he put that dodgy outfit on again. I really hope they don't all end up wearing the same 'uniforms' day in and day out like on TWD. 

[Bongo Fury]

I don't understand the military. What is their plan, what is their motivation? I'm not familiar enough with uniforms or insignia so I don't know if they are National Guard or regular Army, but in either case I can't believe they would be treating American citizens so poorly, so contemptuously. The military doesn't serve the government or the president, their mission is to protect the US constitution, so infringing on civil rights is utterly unbelievable. I use to do disaster relief work, I've lived on temporary military bases, used their facilities, ate with them in the mess tent, and without exception they are the most polite and respectful people you will find anywhere. Yes sir, no sir, can I do 'X' for you. And if the military did setup camps like shown, the combat officers would not be interacting with the citizens, liaison troops skilled in communication, psychology and public relations would be the ones with direct contact with the citizens.

 

Yet the military we see on Fear are douchebags, bullying the citizens and treating them with contempt. The golf scene was clearly a heavy handed throwback to 'the governor' to let us know that these folks are evil, why not just show them twisting their moustache and going muahahahahaha? A little more subtlety, a little more textured in depth writing would have made them much more interesting. The implication we are given is that the military is forcing the citizens into the safe zone camps and then purging everything outside these zones, walkers and humans alike. In Madison's trip outside the fence we clearly saw nonwalkers who had been killed, the guy with the gun beside him the clearest example. Or the light flasher in the house on the hill. How is this believable, American soldiers would not commit mass murder on Americans. If they are indeed National Guard, they are local soldiers, no way would they be gunning down their neighbors. Because if they were shooting citizens on the east side of town, other soldiers would be murdering their families on the west side of town. 

 

I don't understand the whole concept of the safe zones either. Why set them up in this area while cleansing that area? Why setup camps to protect 50k citizens while ignoring/murdering 10 million others? And if it's a matter of resources, they can only provide food, water and protection for a limited number, wouldn't there be an element of eugenics in the selection process? Wouldn't the camps be stocked with doctors and engineers and scientists and skilled workers (and, ick, politicians), people with the skills and abilities to rebuild society? And wouldn't they pick locations that make more logistical sense? Why fence off a suburban neighborhood instead of say a university that has dormitories, cafeterias, labs, office space, recreational facilities, etc? Or maybe a harbor, with access to the sea and all the opportunities that provides. A self contained environment that can give the survivors all they need makes more sense than  a bunch of suburban homes.

 

None of this really makes sense. But maybe it's just another case of me thinking these things out a LOT more than the writers have done. They needed the characters confined in a stressful environment, with a one dimensional villain, where they could build up the dread and fear. Voila, we get the India Safe Zone.

[Save Yourself]

I don't think Travis actually trusts the military, I think he wants to trust the military. Like he says to Thompson he's keeping together for his families sake. So he thinks of he keeps playing cheerleader and saying its going to be okay it will be, I don't think Travis is all that deluded he just wants what he's saying to be true. That's why he went on the roof to have his melt down so he could climb down again and go and tell Maddie they're going to get Nick back.

 

Also something that I didn't really think much of was the way the soldier boys were eyeing Alicia. I hope we're not headed to some kind of rape storyline there. That's something over used in the genre as whole. Not to mention the show is already portraying the National Guard as assholes with no people skills. Realistically most of these guys would have cycled through the Middle East at some point and would be a lot smarter about pacifying a civilian population. A huge chunk of these guys would have done all kinds of community outreach on the other side of the planet doing it in a suburb should come a lot easier.  

Although the sneak peak makes it seem like there might be some kind rebellion brewing in the ranks. Perhaps its just Moray who is an asshole

Crap now I just miss Jericho, which not only remembered that fact but exploited it for some sharp political commentary. Something the walking dead for all their pretentious poetics and biblical allusions lacks.  In fact from a writerly perspective its probably both series biggest failings that there is no overall message or commentary beyond "Humans Suck". 

 

I keep missing Jericho as well when I watch this mess. F/TWD writers need to watch Jericho, The Day After and Life After People and read World War Z.

[ghoulina]

The thing is, wasn't Rick in his coma for a month? And when he woke up, the fall was over. If we're already nine days in, we're already nearly half-way through that period. There are only a couple of weeks left before we arrive at the time that TWD started. Is this show just going to become another version of the show that is already on? Who needs that?

 

But Rick was in a small town in the south. I think it's possible it could have gotten to them a lot later than LA. I don't think the outbreak happened simultaneously in every location around the world. 

[KirkB]

I don't understand the whole concept of the safe zones either. Why set them up in this area while cleansing that area? Why setup camps to protect 50k citizens while ignoring/murdering 10 million others? And if it's a matter of resources, they can only provide food, water and protection for a limited number, wouldn't there be an element of eugenics in the selection process? Wouldn't the camps be stocked with doctors and engineers and scientists and skilled workers (and, ick, politicians), people with the skills and abilities to rebuild society? And wouldn't they pick locations that make more logistical sense? Why fence off a suburban neighborhood instead of say a university that has dormitories, cafeterias, labs, office space, recreational facilities, etc? Or maybe a harbor, with access to the sea and all the opportunities that provides. A self contained environment that can give the survivors all they need makes more sense than  a bunch of suburban homes.

 

 

Overall, you're right. If the real military were really setting up 'safe zones' in some sort of apocalyptic scenario they would be a lot more selective and, let's face it, no one in Travis' circle (with the possible exception of his ex wife) would be on the list. It's plot contrivance. I can understand them cordoning off a suburban neighborhood in order to maintain discipline or control (or even just to keep test subjects in one place) since there are readily built homes with easily isolated water and electricity access, but they just happened to choose the area where our protagonists live.

 

I'm also with those of you who'd rather the military not automatically be bad, brutal or incompetent. There would be some of those, sure, but it almost implies that a big reason the world fell is because the resources set up to protect it turned on itself rather than the dead eating everyone in sight. Which makes a certain sort of sense I suppose. And might actually make a good story. I'd just rather see it first hand than being forced to infer it from what Travis is seeing. We already have one show which skipped the apocalypse and went straight to the dreary aftermath. I would have thought a show explicitly set in the beginning and middle of said apocalypse would involve more than one whiny family being inconvenienced.

[JackONeill]

I guess I feel like if the military is functioning, there's a hospital up and running, we haven't seen total collapse yet. They're still getting electricity, even if not much. They're having food delivered. There are at least 12 "safe zones". So I feel like society is still functioning on some level. Things are somewhat contained. There's still plenty of room for it to get a lot worse.

I don't disagree that this might be a feint from the writers. Maybe we're about to see the REAL end times. But, the thing is, we know what's going to happen; or, at least, how things are going to end up. So, in some regards, this has all been a tease. WE saw the mothership group hunt for food and deal with people who they weren't sure at first if they were walkers. The dread of walking anywhere never knowing when a hand is going to reach out for you.

 

In some respects this show is now Alexandria, but in a different time period. I suspect the last episode this season will show a herd (and I mean a HERD) of walkers heading towards Maddison's, et al, "safe zone."

 

As cool as that might be, I'll feel cheated, and it's because I feel like I've seen that about 4 or 5 times already on TWD (yes, at different points in time).

 

I don't think we're ever really going to get HOW this happened. I don't think the writers have it in them. (maybe we'll get some ambiguous tidbits if we hook back up with the doctor.)

[RustbeltWriter]

The thing is, wasn't Rick in his coma for a month? And when he woke up, the fall was over. If we're already nine days in, we're already nearly half-way through that period. There are only a couple of weeks left before we arrive at the time that TWD started. Is this show just going to become another version of the show that is already on? Who needs that?

 

 

 

This is exactly what I'm afraid of. This show was supposed to explain things we didn't know about The Walking Dead. If it simply becomes The Walking Dead West, do we really care?

 

The problem with an episode like this is that no one is doing anything to discover what is going on. Travis is jogging, Madison is painting and no one has bothered to turn on a battery powered radio. The power comes on for a few hours a day and no one turns on the TV to see if a local station is broadcasting over the air. They're all just sitting around doing nothing after seeing dead people get up and walk around. I don't understand how a show with this premise can't be compelling.

[editorgrrl]

How is their water supply? This is Southern California. If the water supply is interrupted, they're screwed.

Why are the hours of electricity during the morning when the sun is shining? And how hot does it get in their area? I live in the inland empire and if the air conditioning stopped working, things would get difficult quick.

Moyers (aka Lt. Exposition) said, "Sanitation, water treatment, and other services will return as we approach total containment.… So keep boiling that water."

When Travis came back from his run to no power, he shrugged it off: "Oh, they probably don't want to strain whatever's left of the grid. Don't worry, they're gonna get it sorted." Then he opened the fridge!

On the one hand, I understand Maddie not wanting the neighbor's bloodsplatter on her walls. But with a character already named Ofelia, the line "I can still see the stains" is uber Lady Macbeth. Bizarrely, the next line is Travis saying, "Hey, you can see the ocean." At first, I was confused—it's his neighborhood. But I think it was supposed to signal that he's team National Guard. Maddie even nags him about running off to "play man of the people with your soldier friends," and he whines back, "I'm not playing."

When Moyers called Travis "Mr. Mayor," he was just snarking, right?

Edited September 22, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Bongo Fury]

 Bizarrely, the next line is Travis saying, "Hey, you can see the ocean." 

 

I assume that's because after 9 days of no cars and no airplanes the LA smog has cleared enough that you can actually see off in the distance. The same way the sky was SO blue a few days after 911 without airplane contrails dirtying up the skies.

[Bryce Lynch]

Back to that walking turd Travis: Who fucking JOGS while dangerous, serious shit is going on? I hate him now. Madison can have his ass, they belong together. Liza deserves better.

And Kim Dickens. I'm sorry, I cannot stand to look at her useless stone face and that underbite (or whatever it is, it's the way she holds her mouth), which is one of the main reasons why I won't be watching this next season.

I can't stand Travis, but the jogging along with all the home improvements and other routine things people are doing are understandable to me.

They are secure (for now) and have what they need to survive so at this point boredom is one of their biggest enemies.

They have no work, no school, no TV, internet, etc., so they need to find ways to keep busy.

We only see them for about 45 minutes a week, but in their fictional world those characters would have to figure out how to fill up 168 hours (maybe 100 to 125 after sleep).

Also, doing routine activities would help distract them from all their fears about what is going on outside the gates.

[Nashville]

Travis told them about the SOS folks his son and Madison saw.

The military went there and killed them.

If they let more folks in, it would be difficult to maintain control.

 

ITA, except I think there's a little more to the machine-gunning of the civilians than simply maintaining control.  It's the same reason why the LAPD female cop in Ep2 feels justified in putting a slug through the eye of Phish Concert Refugee Chick after no more than a couple of "Halt or I'll shoot!"s.  They (police and military alike) as of yet have next to no handle on the epidemiology of this disease - its origins, how it spreads, etc.  All they know is: dead people turn, and bit people get sick, die, and turn. 

 

Right now, the military's response reminds me of nothing so much as the stories my grandfather told me of the massive outbreak of hoof-and-mouth disease in America back around WWI.  Before they got a handle on the method of contagion, the standard logic then was "if you don't see any hoof-and-mouth disease, then there won't be any hoof-and-mouth disease."  The disease was highly contagious, so if any of your livestock showed up with hoof-and-mouth disease the immediate response was to:

• Kill the infected animal.
• Kill any animal which had come in direct contact with the infected animal.
• Destroy or get rid of any food or water with which the infected animal had come in direct contact.
• Quarantine and burn any ground where the infected animal had been grazing/roaming/housed - quite literally a "scorched earth" policy.

Draconian in nature to be sure - but better to move quickly, hit hard, lose a lot and save the rest, than to move slowly, be cautious, and lose them all.

IMHO this is where the military response is at present.  At present the only infection vector TPTB know is sick and dying people.  Their response, therefore, is to quarantine ANYBODY who deviates from the norm health-wise:

• Old man with the bad heart (and Nick's favorite IV cocktail).
• Griselda, with the infected ankle and foot.
• Nick, with the elevated heart rate and blood pressure (remember the doctor's exam) - could be the start of an infection.
• Muscle Car Guy - considering the NG medics were examining him immediately after a panic attack, I doubt ANY of his readings (pulse, BP, etc.) were within sneezing distance of normal.  And who knows, maybe mental aberration is simply the first symptom of The Disease.... 

I hope the writers surprise me by avoiding the cliche "army guy has hots for Ofelia, and won't stop pursuing her, leading to him raping her or at least attempting it".  Everyone will see it coming from many miles away.

 

Well... considering the NG grunt with the hots for her is Shawn Hatosy - the same actor who played the girlfriend-beating asshole from John Q - her odds don't looks so good....

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but was this the first completely zombieless episode of the franchise?

 

Not unless you count Madison. 

ZINNNG!  :>

 

As the not so proud owner of a hellacious slice, golf is evil.

 

It is truly and unrepentantly evil.

 

Speaking as the owner of The Hook From Hell , I heartily concur.

 

RustbeltWriter agreed.  What have I learned from this show?  There are bunch of assholes in LA that deserve to get eaten.  That's all.

 

They're called writers.

 

I liked it. In all of my imaginings about the ZA, I never pictured these kind of fenced-in "safe" zones under the rule of military law. Mothership talk:

I know TWD has the Alexandria Safe Zone, but it seems vastly different from this set up. It was smaller, devoid of military, and they had to supply their own fence.

Remember, there was supposed to be a military presence at the Alexandria Safe Zone.  Deanna & Company were headed back home to her Representative district in Ohio when they were intercepted by the military (don't remember if it were Army or NG), and redirected to the ASZ, with directions to sit tight until they (the military) returned.  Which they never did - and which, judging from the current goings-on in LA, may have been the luckiest break the ASZHats ever got.

 

ETA: fixed spoiler tags

Edited September 22, 2015 by Nashville

[txhorns79]

I mean really - civilization has collapsed in the last 9 days and they aren't questioning anything except when will the power go back on and when will my phone work?  It's ridiculous.  And painting the living room!  That's just stupid.  People help people in times like this.  Not the Clarks though.  The Manawas are helpful to others,  but they make poor choices.

 

I don't think they would view the situation as "civilization collapsing."  From what they see, the military has secured their area, they have been told services will be slowly returning and they haven't really seen what is going on outside the secure zone.   

[ghoulina]

IMHO this is where the military response is at present.  At present the only infection vector TPTB know is sick and dying people.  Their response, therefore, is to quarantine ANYBODY who deviates from the norm health-wise:

Old man with the bad heart (and Nick's favorite IV cocktail).
Griselda, with the infected ankle and foot.
Nick, with the elevated heart rate and blood pressure (remember the doctor's exam) - could be the start of an infection.
Muscle Car Guy - considering the NG medics were examining him immediately after a panic attack, I doubt ANY of his readings (pulse, BP, etc.) were within sneezing distance of normal.  And who knows, maybe mental aberration is simply the first symptom of The Disease....

 

Agree with all of this. Plus, I wondered if the military didn't see Muscle Car Guy (I was calling him Bushy Beard Dad, but this works too) as a suicide risk and Nick as a potential OD risk. Both unexpected deaths that could turn the safe zone into a buffet very quickly. 

[JusLaugh]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I love this show. I think the characters get more interesting every episode and is building up at a good pace. I also think the acting is GREAT compared to TWD.

 

I Like Madison. She is intellectually curious and goes out of her way to hold her emotions in check for the sake of her family. I also don't understand why people are so upset about her Liza snark. I would be a MUCH bitchier if my husband's ex-wife moved in to my house. Madison gets an A+ for handling the situation IMHO. 

 

I also like Alicia and Chris. They are both really smart kids who seem to have adapted to the situation better than any of their parents.

 

I hate Nick. He is my least favorite character. I have lived with an addict before and let me tell you it is NOT endearing at all. They are charming, manipulative, selfish, and only interested in finding their next high. I don't find that fun, cute, or smart. The actor, however, is so brilliant in portraying it that I hope they keep him around. Maybe if the military really can force him to get clean, I will like him better, but for now...ick.

 

I also think Liza and Travis are too naive and trusting to live long in the zombie world. Madison was right--It was all Liza's fault. She told the government goons about Nick. I get that she was just trying to help, but she was also trying to be accepted by the gov't doc. I also hate how Travis treats his son very dismissively. Travis is my second least favorite character.

 

Then, after she watched them throw down Mr. Salazar who was just trying to stay with his wife, Liza hops on the convoy and abandons Chris without so much as an explanation of goodbye. What kind of parent willingly abandons their 15 year old son in the middle of an apocalypse? I really liked her up until this episode. Now, not so much.

[stretch]

 

IMHO this is where the military response is at present.  At present the only infection vector TPTB know is sick and dying people.  Their response, therefore, is to quarantine ANYBODY who deviates from the norm health-wise:

• Old man with the bad heart (and Nick's favorite IV cocktail).
• Griselda, with the infected ankle and foot.
• Nick, with the elevated heart rate and blood pressure (remember the doctor's exam) - could be the start of an infection.
• Muscle Car Guy - considering the NG medics were examining him immediately after a panic attack, I doubt ANY of his readings (pulse, BP, etc.) were within sneezing distance of normal.  And who knows, maybe mental aberration is simply the first symptom of The Disease.... 

<snipped>

 

Yes, except I think the reason Nick was pulled because detoxing junkies have an inconvenient way of dying on you (or finding a stash and overdosing and then dying) and they were probably afraid that Muscle Car Guy was either a suicide risk or that he'd flip out and kill others before killing himself. What they know right now is that death = zombies, so their action plan is to remove immediate threats.

 

Edit: ninja'ed by ghoulina

Edited September 22, 2015 by stretch

[kj4ever]

So Madison thinks Travis's family should be doing more while her daughter is MIA and her drug addict son (that she's supposed to be watching like a hawk) is lounging at the pool?  WTF?  No wonder her kids are assholes.

 

I for one loved the fact that Nick took the morphine.  It is about the most real reaction I have seen on this show thus far.  I still love his character on the show.  I don't like the perfect, always do the right thing unrealistic type characters.  This is how drug addicts act.  They most definitely would take drugs from a dying man if they weren't available anywhere else.  Madison should have had red flags going off like crazy when he said he didn't need that pill.  She is more fucking stupid than I thought.

 

Am I the only one who thought Liza went with the doc because they took Nick and wouldn't let Daniel go with his wife?  That, or she just wanted to get the hell away from Madison's ignorant ass, and I can't say I'd blame her for that one.  Imagine listening to that whining bitch and looking at her permanently stuck grimace face all day?

 

Can you tell how much I hate the Madison character?  lol  I am even more convinced that is is not only bad writing but horrendous acting.  Where did they find that woman?  Maybe they can put it in her contract that she can't use botox next season?  Better yet, maybe they want us to hate her so we can all cheer when she gets bit?

 

I think the Doc is on the up and up.  I think the military is doing what they can,but shit could get bad quick as Daniel said.

 

I'm not from California, but I know some of the parts I've visited often have lots of hills and valleys.  I'm thinking the military knows more about the zombies so 

they cleared a place out of the line of sight and miles around it to cut out the noise. Like Sasha kept saying after the prison fell, they needed to find higher ground.

.  

 

It takes a while for them to shamble along, but you know they are going to herd up and shamble their way to the safe zone buffet.

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in:

 

Fear The Walking Dead was Sunday's top original, with a 3.3 adults 18-49 rating, down from last week's 3.6 adults 18-49 rating. [6.62 million viewers]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/09/22/sunday-cable-ratings-fear-the-walking-dead-tops-night-nfl-countdown-rick-morty-basketball-wives-the-strain-more/469914/

[Gwen-Stacys]

Back to that walking turd Travis:  Who fucking JOGS while dangerous, serious shit is going on?  I hate him now.  Madison can have his ass, they belong together.  Liza deserves better.

 

Rule #1 of the zombie apocalypse: Cardio. Running is a hard thing to do once the adrenaline wears off, especially if you're not used to it. Right now, gun aversion aside, he seems the most on track to survive once the gates come down.

 

I wonder what's on his Running for Your Life soundtrack.

It makes absolutely zero sense that Nick didn't take the pill that Madison tried to give him. Even if he were feeling good at the moment he had to know that the neighbor wouldn't have morphine forever so why not pocket the pill for later.

I also don't get why Eliza would leave her only child to care for complete strangers. There's no way in hell would I ever leave my children in a situation like that.

Point #1: Junkies aren't exactly known for their long term thinking.

 

Point #2: It gives her something to do. They've been in an enclosed space for over a week, I'm sure they're all more than a little stir crazy.

 

I'm with the thinking that Travis isnn't 100% on board with the military takeover. He never seems particularly relieved or gracious when he's around them, more like politely helpful. Same way I imagine most people would be when they're stuck in small space with a group of heavily armed individuals. When they ask you to jump, you might not exactly ask them how high, but you're still gonna do it and encourage others to join in. Travis seems like he's more or less trying to keep people from panicking, himself included. Like another user mentioned, when Travis does have his breakdown, he does it in private where no one can see him.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Gwen-Stacys

[txhorns79]

Point #2: It gives her something to do. They've been in an enclosed space for over a week, I'm sure they're all more than a little stir crazy.

 

She seems to have been caring for multiple neighborhood residents until the doctor arrived.  It didn't appear to me she was lacking for activities.  I would agree it doesn't make much sense that she would just leave her kid in the manner she did.  Yeah, he's being left with his father, but she didn't even say a word to Travis and barely mouthed some reassurances to Chris before she went off into the unknown to return at some undetermined period of time, if at all.

[guilfoyleatpp]

So Madison thinks Travis's family should be doing more while her daughter is MIA and her drug addict son (that she's supposed to be watching like a hawk) is lounging at the pool?  WTF?  No wonder her kids are assholes.

 

I for one loved the fact that Nick took the morphine.  It is about the most real reaction I have seen on this show thus far.  I still love his character on the show.  I don't like the perfect, always do the right thing unrealistic type characters.  This is how drug addicts act.  They most definitely would take drugs from a dying man if they weren't available anywhere else.  Madison should have had red flags going off like crazy when he said he didn't need that pill.  She is more fucking stupid than I thought.

 

Am I the only one who thought Liza went with the doc because they took Nick and wouldn't let Daniel go with his wife?  That, or she just wanted to get the hell away from Madison's ignorant ass, and I can't say I'd blame her for that one.  Imagine listening to that whining bitch and looking at her permanently stuck grimace face all day?

 

Yeah - Madison being pissed about Liza while simultaneously not recognizing that her son is exhibiting addict behavior was troublesome  Especially after the way she told off the police officers in episode 1.  She knows the ins and outs. She didn't pin him down, or maybe she was waiting to see if she could find him sneaking.

 

I also thought Liza was being somewhat noble by going to the hospital. The doctor asked her, almost pleaded with her, and she could also keep an eye on her team (Griselda and Nick). Chris has his father (useless, non-gun learning though he is). Since they don't know the extent of the devastation, she probably felt she could do the most good at the hospital. It is a "helper" attitude. People have those in emergencies. 

 

I have to remind myself that they don't know this is the end of the world. I'm still perplexed by not being shown anyone trying to access media or not being explicitly told that the military is somehow tracking them to ensure they don't.

[peach]

I don't understand the military. What is their plan, what is their motivation? I'm not familiar enough with uniforms or insignia so I don't know if they are National Guard or regular Army, but in either case I can't believe they would be treating American citizens so poorly, so contemptuously. The military doesn't serve the government or the president, their mission is to protect the US constitution, so infringing on civil rights is utterly unbelievable. I use to do disaster relief work, I've lived on temporary military bases, used their facilities, ate with them in the mess tent, and without exception they are the most polite and respectful people you will find anywhere. Yes sir, no sir, can I do 'X' for you. And if the military did setup camps like shown, the combat officers would not be interacting with the citizens, liaison troops skilled in communication, psychology and public relations would be the ones with direct contact with the citizens.

 

Yet the military we see on Fear are douchebags, bullying the citizens and treating them with contempt. The golf scene was clearly a heavy handed throwback to 'the governor' to let us know that these folks are evil, why not just show them twisting their moustache and going muahahahahaha? A little more subtlety, a little more textured in depth writing would have made them much more interesting. The implication we are given is that the military is forcing the citizens into the safe zone camps and then purging everything outside these zones, walkers and humans alike. In Madison's trip outside the fence we clearly saw nonwalkers who had been killed, the guy with the gun beside him the clearest example. Or the light flasher in the house on the hill. How is this believable, American soldiers would not commit mass murder on Americans. If they are indeed National Guard, they are local soldiers, no way would they be gunning down their neighbors. Because if they were shooting citizens on the east side of town, other soldiers would be murdering their families on the west side of town.

 

Thank you.  It's so cliched and insulting to our troops. 

[JackONeill]

I have to remind myself that they don't know this is the end of the world. I'm still perplexed by not being shown anyone trying to access media or not being explicitly told that the military is somehow tracking them to ensure they don't.

 

I know we've talked about this ad nauseam, and  I know we know that TPTB have told us that zombie-ness (movie like Night of the Living Dead) doesn't exist in this world, but I find it ironic that in The Night of The Living Dead everybody wanted to see what was being said on TV (even if it were only a - EGAD - black and white TV). I would submit those are sane rational people who know that in ANY emergency you head for a news outlet. The people in Fear the Walking Dead are, alas, IDIOTS.