NFL Thread

[Jx223]

Why? What happened?

A few months ago, Josh failed another drug test, (it was for marijuana use). He had also failed a previous drug test, last season, because had had taken cough syrup with codeine in it, and was suspended for two games without pay. Because of his second violation of the NFL drug policy, he is now facing a year long suspension. He has appealed, (there might be a chance that he might only be suspended for half a season) but I wouldn't be surprised if he still ends up being suspended for the whole season.

 

Here is some more information about this:

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10908822/josh-gordon-cleveland-browns-faces-season-long-suspension

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/19/still-no-ruling-in-the-josh-gordon-case/

 

I hope that Josh eventually gets it together. I think that he is very talented, and I wouldn't want to see him throw his career away because of his drug use.

[Dejana]

I can't believe those are the 3 choices.   None of them jump out at you as OMG, this is so awesome for a Super Bowl halftime.   Specifically in regards to Rihanna, I thought they were getting away from raunchy after Justin Timberlake ripped off Janet Jackson's top (and how come she got in trouble and he didn't?  it took 2 to make that stunt work).   

 

Also did you hear?   The NFL is asking for a cut of any performer's post Super Bowl tour since the performer gets so much publicity out of performing at the Super Bowl.   So far the 3 aren't biting, but you know some act will.

 

P.S.  I signed the petition to have Weird Al be the half time performer.

The sheer money grubbing audacity of it made me laugh, honestly. Of course, the NFL would try to find another way to get their cut. Such greedy bastards. One of the local DJs here made a good point, that they're only trying this "pay to play" tactic because they've gone in a more youthful direction with the halftime show, and they'd never dare ask Springsteen, the Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, stars of that stature to pony up.

 

Whatever direction the halftime show takes, someone's going to end up displeased, and it's not like there's this exhaustive roster of music superstars that everyone across several generations knows and likes, who hasn't done it already and isn't in the doghouse with the NFL (Justin Timberlake, though maybe they'll relent when he hits 50 or so). The other reports I saw this week were about Carrie Underwood. I would think if someone with country ties got picked it would be Taylor Swift since she's more mainstream with more recognizable songs, but her vibe might be a bit too teenage girl for what the NFL is going for at halftime.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Dejana

[mojoween]

I personally would not enjoy it, but I have a feeling if they asked like Keith Urban to do it that would be a huge draw. I mean, a zillion people buy this country music and they probably like football too.

[merylinkid]

Carrie Underwood has already ruined the Sunday Night Football theme.   When Faith Hill did it, it was get on your feet, get excited for footbal song.   Last year, it was blah.   This year, Ms. Underwood turned into a blues song.   A BLUES SONG to get people excited to watch football.   What. The. Fuck. Were. They. Thinking?

[Mountainair]

I know I'm in the minority, especially as an almost 30 year old female, but I would personally love to see a good Drum and Bugle Corp like Phantom Regiment or the like for a half time show. Who was it last year? Bruno Mars? I don't know what the stats are but do that many people watch the half time show anymore? Between wanting to watch the game and the commercials the only missable thing is half time, for me.

[ketchuplover]

Jim Kelly's cancer is gone :)

[mojoween]

I no longer feel badly about the heavy drug penalties in the NFL if the players are going to be SO STUPID to sit in their cars and smoke pot and have bags of pot on them.

[topanga]

 

I no longer feel badly about the heavy drug penalties in the NFL if the players are going to be SO STUPID to sit in their cars and smoke pot and have bags of pot on them.

I hear ya, mojoween. At my job, I have to call people whose urine drug screens come up positive to see if there's a reasonable medical explanation for the drug--medication, for example. Inevitably, when I speak to a person who is positive for marijuana, they get really sad (or angry) and tell me, "Oh, man. I'm going to lose my job. I was out of work for a whole year before I found work. What am I supposed to do now?"  Uh, how about not smoking weed when you know your employer does random drug testing?

 

Some people argue that marijuana helps athletes cope with the chronic pain that comes from the multiple injuries they sustain over the years. I don't know how true this is.

[Dejana]

I know I'm in the minority, especially as an almost 30 year old female, but I would personally love to see a good Drum and Bugle Corp like Phantom Regiment or the like for a half time show. Who was it last year? Bruno Mars? I don't know what the stats are but do that many people watch the half time show anymore? Between wanting to watch the game and the commercials the only missable thing is half time, for me.

 

The Bruno Mars halftime show averaged 115 million viewers for its twelve minutes, so...yes. The return of the marching bands would bring the return of the other networks running counterprogramming against halftime and potentially drawing away tens of millions of viewers from the telecast:

 

...the NFL brought in the King of Pop after millions of viewers fled a 1992 show featuring Gloria Estefan, Brian Boitano and Dorothy Hammill in favor of a special episode of In Living Color. The debacle had caused a ten-point dip in Super Bowl ratings, something the league was keen to avoid.

 

 

This one's been preserved in all its infamy...glory, on Youtube:

 

Part 1

Part 2

Edited August 22, 2014 by Dejana

[nowandlater]

Anybody watching Hard Knocks? This season has been incredibly boring.

 

Yes, there is no drama in the Atlanta Falcons locker room, but the whole point of NFL Films is they could turn a blowout into the most compelling game ever.

 

They're relying on the usual tropes (focusing on a lowly guy's hot girlfriend, or the lowly guy with musical abilities). But nothing has been going on. Nothing.

 

Last year's Hard Knocks was dull, too. But I attributed that to revisiting the well of a dull Marvin Lewis, who is adept at being dull on camera and making his team dull.

 

Maybe Hard Knocks has run its course. Or maybe NFL Films is really missing Steve Sabol.

Edited August 22, 2014 by nowandlater

[mojoween]

The NFL Network asked on their FB page who will have a better game today...Michael Sam or Johnny Manziel?

While the question itself is inherently stupid because their relative positions don't invite comparison, I'm glad they asked because reading the comments is entirely worth it.

The media is the one making a big deal about Michael Sam, he has calmed down now that the ill-advised reality show idea was scrapped. Jeff Fisher must be getting so irritated.

[merylinkid]

Michael Sam sacked Johnny Manziel.   It was a thing of beauty.   You see, Michael Sam is doing what he needs to do to make the team.   Manziel, well, he has excuses, lots of them.   

[BabyVegas]

Relive it in GIF format!

 

Johnny Manziel is that guy that thinks that just because he's the biggest fish in his pond he must be the biggest fish in any pond. And I am Team Whoever Told Him That To His Face. But somewhat in his defense, the guy who was supposed to be blocking for Manziel (sorry, not sure of the position name. I'm still learning. I think he might be a right tackle?) seemed to do an awfully crap job. It looks to me like his feet were moving slowly and he barely got his hands on Sam before Sam sacked Manziel. Based on what I've seen, Manziel is an excellent player under ideal conditions, but when you start applying pressure he will show weaknesses in his game. What I appreciate in a QB is the ability to be mobile and cover himself when his defensive players aren't there and I don't see that in Manziel. But back out of Manziel's defense, I hardly saw him scramble to get away from Sam. Maybe Sam is just a faster player, but Manziel appeared not to see him coming until it was too late.

Edited August 24, 2014 by BabyVegas

[Popples]

I feel kind of bad for Sam Bradford, he tore the same ACL last season. I wonder if his career is over.

 

 

Anybody watching Hard Knocks? This season has been incredibly boring.

 

Yes, there is no drama in the Atlanta Falcons locker room, but the whole point of NFL Films is they could turn a blowout into the most compelling game ever.

 

They're relying on the usual tropes (focusing on a lowly guy's hot girlfriend, or the lowly guy with musical abilities). But nothing has been going on. Nothing.

 

Last year's Hard Knocks was dull, too. But I attributed that to revisiting the well of a dull Marvin Lewis, who is adept at being dull on camera and making his team dull.

 

Maybe Hard Knocks has run its course. Or maybe NFL Films is really missing Steve Sabol.

 

Hard Knocks peaked with the Jets one a few years ago, IMHO.

[merylinkid]

Fox has given David Spade his own fantasy football analysis show.   By all that anyone considers holy WHY????????????????   

[nowandlater]

Wow, it's so weird seeing Randy Moss and Joe Buck essentially part of the same broadcast team.

 

[mojoween]

I feel badly for Bradford because apparently his injury means the pundits need to roll out their stories that St. Louis was foolish for trading the second pic that got Washington Griffin.

Considering what we've seen from Griffin lately, I don't know how accurate that is.

[mojoween]

Holy FUCK. If I didn't see the video, I would not believe that Josina Anderson ACTUALLY did a report about Michael Sam waiting to take a shower. I just. I can't.

SportsCenter's report on Sam's showering habits.

I normally try to defend ESPN but in this, I cannot.

[crimsongrl]

ESPN is sorry about that report on Michael Sam's showering habits

 

 

OT: Does anyone know if Blackwing or MsSarahWalker made the trip to PTv? I was hoping to read comments from all of the old TWoP sports crew!

[Kip Hackman]

I feel badly for Bradford because apparently his injury means the pundits need to roll out their stories that St. Louis was foolish for trading the second pic that got Washington Griffin.

 

Considering the haul of draft picks they got for him, I doubt that anyone would say that. At this point, Washington looks much more foolish.

[GuiltyPleasures]

Peyton Manning was fined $8,268 by the NFL for last week's taunting penalty, the first of his career.  Said Peyton, "I accept the fine.  It was money well spent."

[Bastet]

Well, well.  Roger Goodell admits he screwed up with the anemic penalty for Ray Rice, and institutes a new policy: six-game suspension for a first offense, and banishment from the NFL for a second one ... but a banned player can apply for reinstatement a year later.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Bastet

[KerleyQ]

Nice to see he pulled his head halfway out of his ass.  But a "lifetime ban" that can be appealed for reinstatement after one year?  Does not compute. 

[merylinkid]

All lifetime bans are eligible for appeal a year later. VIck should have been banned for life because he went to jail for gambling (he never served a day for actually killing dogs).   It's right in the Bylaws.    You notice, he did his time, and good old Roger said that was enough time away from football.   

 

Same thing is going to happen here.   Somehow beating up your wife won't be classified as DV or an exception will be found, or it was be negotiated down from a 6 game suspension to 4 or something.  

 

BTW, Rothelisberg got an 8 game suspension and was never even charged with anything.

[KerleyQ]

I'm guessing Roger's decision on whether to reinstate will largely come down to how good and/or popular the player in question is.  If Brady were to smack Giselle on two different instances, he'd do his year and get back in.  If some bench player who nobody cares about does it, he'll be done.  So, if you want to abuse your significant other a couple times and still be able to play, make sure your jersey sales numbers are good. 

[Danny Franks]

I've seen NFL fans online saying stuff like, 'players should record everything they do with a woman, to protect themselves' in response to this news. Incredible.

 

But then, some of these people are the ones who were trying to insinuate that Ray Rice was right to knock his fiance out, and to not do it would have been unmanly. Some people truly astound me.

 

I don't think it's that unfair to say that the better, bigger name players are more likely to get bans overturned, though. Isn't that something that would be true in any profession in the world? If you're better at your job than other people, then you're more likely to get more chances, regardless of your conduct. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

 

I still think the general level of criminality amongst NFL players beggars belief, though. The amount of guys who get arrested, the amount of guys who do really stupid stuff, and then do it again? Is this a result of a life of being coddled and elevated above other people? Isolated from consequences from a young age? There needs to be a better disciplinary system all the way down to high school level, if you ask me. And it's why I'll always love boring players like Joe Flacco. He's so dull, his idea of celebrating his $120million contract was to go to McDonalds! He's never going to get in any trouble, except for when he makes dry, sarcastic remarks that the vacuous bobbleheads on ESPN and the NFL Network take at face value.

[KerleyQ]

I still think the general level of criminality amongst NFL players beggars belief, though. The amount of guys who get arrested, the amount of guys who do really stupid stuff, and then do it again? Is this a result of a life of being coddled and elevated above other people? Isolated from consequences from a young age? There needs to be a better disciplinary system all the way down to high school level, if you ask me. And it's why I'll always love boring players like Joe Flacco. He's so dull, his idea of celebrating his $120million contract was to go to McDonalds! He's never going to get in any trouble, except for when he makes dry, sarcastic remarks that the vacuous bobbleheads on ESPN and the NFL Network take at face value.

 

 

I think that's definitely it - that they're coddled at a young age if they're good at football.  Look at stories from various parts of the country of football players at the high school and college levels being accused of sexual assault and how many people want to let them slide on it (to the point of harassing their victims) because they're good at football and the team needs them.  When the culture around football gives guys that kind of pass, it's not shocking that some of them grow up to believe that they are untouchable and can behave however they want. 

 

I don't understand that mentality at all. I mean, I love my team, I want them to win, but I also want them to be people I can really root for without feeling sick to my stomach.  I'd be disgusted if my team signed on guys like Vick, Roethlisberger, or Rice (to name a few).  I know people like to say Cutler's an asshole, but I'll take a guy who's aloof and doesn't like dealing with the media (and who can blame him there?) over men who kill dogs and assault women any day. 

[xaxat]

But as someone mentioned before, the ability to get away with stuff that is not normally acceptable or even illegal is not just about football, or even sports. It's treatment that people with rare skills get routinely. Look recent cases like photographer Terry Richardson, who has been accused on multiple occasions of forcing his models to have sex with him yet skill can book high profile gigs. Or the recently deposed American Apparel CEO Dov Charney, who was able to keep his job for years despite having allegations of sexual assault/harassment lodged against him.

 

Sufficient talent in any occupation can get you a pass.. 

Edited August 29, 2014 by xaxat

[KerleyQ]

I think that, with football players, they're getting that smoke blown up their asses from a very young age, though, relative to someone like a CEO.  If you're good enough at football to be in the NFL, the odds are that your talent was noticed while you were still in your mid teens (or earlier).  So your formative years were spent with you being taught that you can do no wrong, because you're good at football.  (And this is going on to a lesser extent in other sports, as well, but football is practically a religion in large portions of the country).  A CEO likely wasn't getting that kind of treatment at that age, unless they grew up really well off and were allowed to get away with murder because their family was wealthy (AKA the "affluenza" kid).  I'm not, by any means, excusing the NFL players, not by a long shot, but the high number of them behaving in this manner is likely because, at ages when it really should have been hammered home to them that they are responsible for their own actions, they were surrounded by those who were willing to excuse any level of abhorrent behavior because of their football skills. 

Edited August 29, 2014 by KerleyQ

[xaxat]

According to 538, when it comes to the general populace and for men 25-29, arrest rates of NFL players is below average across the board. However, when compared to people making similar incomes, it is very high. I suppose it depends on what you believe is the most appropriate peer group to compare them to.

[BitterApple]

I'm guessing Roger's decision on whether to reinstate will largely come down to how good and/or popular the player in question is.  If Brady were to smack Giselle on two different instances, he'd do his year and get back in.  If some bench player who nobody cares about does it, he'll be done.  So, if you want to abuse your significant other a couple times and still be able to play, make sure your jersey sales numbers are good. 

Totally. Brady could get caught with an underage transvestite prostitute and still be reinstated.

[KerleyQ]

Totally. Brady could get caught with an underage transvestite prostitute and still be reinstated.

 

 

Especially if he didn't have any marijuana on him when he was caught with that prostitute.  

[Rick Kitchen]

Michael Sam has been cut by the Rams.  And Champ Bailey has been cut by the Saints.

[merylinkid]

I am actually more suprised by the Champ Bailey cut.

 

The Rams were top heavy at Sam's position.   He played well enough in the preseason to catch the attention fo another defense desperate team (cough Dallas cough).

[DrSpaceman]

Not surprised by either cut.

Bailey is well past his prime and Sam was on a loaded defensive team

Also James Harrison retired.

[merylinkid]

Frist player has been arrested after the new DV policy went into effect.   McDonald of the 49ers allegedly had an altercation with his pregnant girlfriend making it felony DV.   

 

I can foresee one problem with the new policy already.   DV is a state law thing with many different definitions of DV and what enhances a charge.   So what if a player in one state hits his pregnant girlfriend and is charged with DV and in another state it is not considered DV because they are not actually living together so a player in that state only gets charged with assault?   Also, some states might not enhance for hitting a pregnant woman, but that is an aggravating factor than can up the suspension in the NFL?

 

This whole policy is based on arrest.    Roethlisberger would not have fallen under it because he was never arrested.   But he got 8 games anyway.   Under the new policy, there has to be an arrest -- and presumably a conviction otherwise innocent in the American justice system -- before there is a 6 game suspension.   Yep Ben got 2 more games than the new policy calls for without even being arrested.

[BitterApple]

I though according to our Justice System you were innocent until proven guilty? What happens in a case where some scorned girlfriend or baby mama calls the police and files a false report? I agree domestic violence needs to be taken seriously, but in this day and age anything and everything qualifies as DV. In my state,  both parties involved in a domestic altercation are taken into custody and the details are sorted out later. It doesn't necessarily mean the man beat up the woman.

 

So you can kill dogs, do drugs, commit vehicular manslaughter (Donte Stallworth), be charged with murder (Ray Lewis) but gosh darn it, the NFL has to draw the line somewhere!

[KerleyQ]

I personally don't think the NFL should tolerate any crime.  And I don't believe the NFL looks the other way on any of those issues, either.  So why shouldn't they also draw a line on men assaulting the women in their lives? 

[BitterApple]

I personally don't think the NFL should tolerate any crime.  And I don't believe the NFL looks the other way on any of those issues, either.  So why shouldn't they also draw a line on men assaulting the women in their lives? 

 

My point is if they're willing to tolerate murder why are they all of a sudden such hard asses about domestic violence? I'm not saying players should get away with abusing women, just that the whole thing seems so arbitrary.

[KerleyQ]

When are they willing to tolerate murder?  

[Rick Kitchen]

When are they willing to tolerate murder?  

 

*cough*Ray Rice*cough*

[merylinkid]

Ray Lewis was only convicted ofr obstruction of justice.    If he was not found guilty of murder -- in the United States that means innocence.   That is exactly what innocent until proven guilty in a court of law means.   

 

Now Donte Stallworth?   He killed a guy.   But it wasn't just the NFL that gave him a break.   He only got 30 days in jail for vehicular manslaughter.

 

Vick is the one that annoys the heck out of me.   He went to jail for gambling.   That was what his conviction was for, not killing dogs.   It says right in the NFL By-Laws, you get caught gambling, you are banned for life.   Period.   That is to keep the Mob out of the game.   Vick is still playing.   So I don't have a lot of hope they will be any stricter with someone convicted of DV.

Edited September 1, 2014 by merylinkid

[xaxat]

While there was gambling involved, according to Wikipedia, the Feds convicted Vick on Felony conspiracy in interstate commerce/aid of unlawful animal fighting venture (Title 18, USC, Section 371) and the state for felony dogfighting. 

[ZoqFotPik]

 

*cough*Ray Rice*cough*

 

Ray Rice was only convicted ofr obstruction of justice.    If he was not found guilty of murder -- in the United States that means innocence.   That is exactly what innocent until proven guilty in a court of law means.

Ray Lewis was convicted of obstruction. Ray Rice is facing charges of assaulting his fiance/wife.

[Rick Kitchen]

Whoops, Ray Lewis.  Ugh, sorry,.

[merylinkid]

Whoops, corrected.

 

And Wikipedia is wrong about Vick.   The Commonwealth's attorney screwed up the case and the State case never went to trial.

[BitterApple]

I'm just saying there are a lot of players who have been accused and convicted of doing some really bad things and they were still suiting up on Sunday. It's not like the NFL hasn't overlooked guys with shitty character before. I'm interested to see how these "lifetime bans" will play out. 

[KerleyQ]

Stallworth missed a season as suspension for that case.  And in reading up more on it, since my memory was foggy, it sounds like the reason the court system went light on him was because it would have been damn near impossible for anyone, sober or drunk, to not hit that guy.  He darted out in front of the car because he was running late to catch the bus, and the evidence showed that DS hit his brakes as soon as the guy did that, but it was too late.  (Although I will say I didn't see anything about whether he was driving too fast and that contributed as well).  

 

I'd certainly rather see Vick get the banned for life designation than Stallworth.  

 

And I loathe drunk drivers, with a passion, still have nerve damage in my neck and shoulder from the drunk who hit me when I was 16, but I think that someone who decides to beat the crap out of his significant other is a far, far bigger dirtbag.  

[DrSpaceman]

The Stallworth case was tricky because he was drunk, and he hit someone, but as mentioned, hard to prove one had anything to do with the other. It does sound like Stallworth could have avoided him drunk or sober.

Roethlisberger was given 6 games, not 8, and it was reduced to 4 games, so it would seem consistent with the new policy. though its a different charge really, physical vs. sexual assault. Hard to say which is worse.

[merylinkid]

You are right it was 4 games, not 8.   I knew it was a common fraction of the season, but I remembered half instead of quarter.