Luke Cage - General Discussion

[Ottis]

I'm actually digging most of this season (as opposed to Iron Fist and JJ S2). I think the story could have been told better, but at least there is a story and I can see how the various characters connect and what they want. Not sure why it takes so long to learn some key motivations. 

Mariah is all kinds crazy, and some of it is sympathetic. That's one of my favorite kinds of villains and it explains her mixed motivations.

Bushmaster has the bones of a good villain, but he seems to be more interested in Stokes than being a bad guy. That's a weak link. I'm also curious whether Bushmaster's abilities are his own or tied to nightshade, and if the later why does nightshade do that for him and not others?

I wish Misty were a little more strategic, and less hot headed. Also, is she spending any time trying to learn what her new arm can do? She seems to inadvertently discover aspects of it but doesn't seem to be testing it methodically.

Luke is Luke. I like him, he has a good heart and he is clearly learning, albeit slowly. But he's kind of dull and dogmatic, in the same way Superman is dull and dogmatic. At least he doesn't whine about having super powers. I'm so glad one of these powered people isn't spending half the season whining.. Also like the fact that his reconnection with his dad is a side story, taking up the right amount of time (vs. JJS2, which went on and on).

[tennisgurl]

Misty is the best, I freaking love her. And now its robot arm time, thanks to Danny helping fund the bills. 

Bushmaster is an awesome character, I really do kind of find him more compelling than Luke around now. Not that I dislike Luke or anything, but he is a bit on the dull side often, while Bushmaster...is not. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If there was any question about what a piece of shit Shades is, his confession sealed the deal. He was way too gleeful in recalling his many crimes. I will never understand how or where people like that draw the line. He was practically gloating about how he used Misty's phone to lure Candace to her death and then suddenly he got serious and regretful about Mariah setting Anansi on fire. I loved that they had Janis listening on the other side of the glass so she heard him say that he shot Comanche.

On a shallow note, it was awesome to see Marcus Choi as Hong! I just saw him as George Washington in Hamilton in June and he was awesome!

I was pleasantly surprised that Tilda was finally so fed up with her mother's bull shit that she was willing to help Bushmaster kill Mariah. I had to laugh when he was pounding on the door of Mariah's lair (heh, and what kind of villain actually refers to their lair as a lair?) and Mariah had the nerve to ask where the hell Luke was, as if his only purpose in life is to protect her. I can't lie. I was hoping that Bushmaster would manage to kill Mariah before Luke could intervene.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Judge: I find your Katrina references offensive.

Bushmaster: Evil won't die on its own. It only festers.

Shades: As usual, Carl, you don't know shit. Think about it. Who has history with each other in East Harlem? Who has always wanted to expand west? The Boricuas and the Italians. Anibal Izqueda is making moves on real estate and guns, yes, but only because the Italians backed them against the Koreans. And they got the juice downtown to keep the Yangsi Gonshi out of it.
Luke: I can't trust a damn word you're saying. You're feeding on the chaos. Now that Mariah's out of the way, you wanna take over.
Shades: I can't even if I wanted to. Whole world knows that I'm a snitch. I'm out. That doesn't mean I can't help you win.
Shades: Help me win? Help me win what?

DW: Who told you you could touch the board?

Luke: You're right, Shades. You are done on the streets. And you're done here, too. If you show up again without an invite and I'm here I'll kill you on sight. You hear me?
Shades: See? You're not polite anymore. That's how it starts.

DW: You're like Uber for thugs.

Mariah: Did you ever love me?
Shades: I still love you.
Mariah: Harder than Che?
Shades: See? That's what you never understood. When you're away at college, this feels real. But when you graduate, it's different.

Shades: You talked to me about the light, about being Hernan and putting Shades away. But you were the one who sold your soul. And for what? The legacy of some some last name that you hate? All you had to do was give me the club like I asked you or sell that that goddamn painting and none of this would have happened. We would have been out there, doing our thing. I really am done with all this shit, and I have you to thank for that.

Shades: Let me give you some advice. Gangster to gangster. This is your life now. Your head on a swivel. No one you can ever trust. Don't worry. You're a natural.

Luke: I need to see [Mariah].
Misty: What for?
Luke: Closure.

Misty: That bitch is in jail and she is still murdering people - even if I can't prove it.

Tilda: Every person who's ever loved you who you didn't kill you pushed away - even your precious Harlem. I almost feel sorry for you.
Mariah: I pushed you away, just like Mama Mabel did me, and you're better for it. No one will ever hurt you because you'll never be hurt worse.
Tilda: And that's a blessing?
Mariah: You're prepared. Nobody will ever betray you cause you'll never let them close enough. You're welcome.

Donovan: This is highly unusual and admittedly awkward.

Mariah: There's a new gangster in town.
Luke: I prefer sheriff. Diplomat maybe.

Mariah: You think too much of me, kid.
Luke: I think very little of you. And soon not at all.
Mariah: Everybody else I called here in some way. But you came on your own. You really care about me, don't you?
Luke: You really are delusional.
Mariah: You were the catalyst, man. You made me find who I really am. In a strange way, we're responsible for each other.
Luke: Bitch, please. Uh, no offense.
Mariah: None taken, nigga.

Shades: She thought of everything, didn't she? What a crazy bitch.
Misty: Yeah. There's something we finally agree on.

DW: You really are Luke Corleone, aren't you?

DW: Luke Trump. Listen, I'm sorry to say this, man, but if you're gonna be the boss of crime, then you're a crime boss. Ain't no two other ways about it.

Donovan: "You can't rule no kingdom from a barbershop," is what she said to me.

Misty: Just because [Mariah] gave [Harlem's Paradise] to you didn't mean you had to take it.
Luke: Everything flows through here, right? I can watch from above. Like a hawk.
Misty: Or a dictator.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tilda getting upset that Mariah left the club to Luke was what I would expect from a child: "I don't want it, but I don't want anyone else to have it!" It makes even less sense knowing that she didn't grow up around the club so she has very few memories of being there. But props to her for killing her crazy evil mom!

I'm glad we are finally rid of Mariah. I was fine with her presence in S1 but there was far too much of her in S2. I found a lot of her acting choices odd and I can't entirely chalk it up to Alfre Woodard playing her as a drunk.

I will not miss Shades and his smarmy smug ass.

Loved the Godfather homage at the end.

DW was kind of an annoying character, but I loved when he realized what Luke was doing and kicked him out to maintain the barbershop's Switzerland status.

[Ottis]

I’m digging it. The point of the show is that nothing is as easy as just taking people out. There are consequences for the good guys, and the bad guys. I agree that Mariah is a little inconsistent and out there, but I love that we have a worthy villain, a family that has been evil for generations. I don’t think Bushmaster is long for this earth. What a crappy life he has had. 

[Ottis]

I liked this season quite a bit. Some causes to root for, some changes of allegiance and some good villains. I wasn’t crazy about the end; because Luke owns the club doesn’t mean he has to change his behavior to be like criminals. But at least it adds another layer to whatever is next. And I liked Misty saying she will be watching. 

This season was far superior to JJS2 and to most of DDS2, and to Iron Fist. I hope DDS3 raises its game. 

[Dobian]

Overall I liked this season better than the first season, meaning I really liked it.  I'd say it was one of my favorite seasons of all the Netflix Marvel shows so far, right up there with Jessica Jones season 1.  Bushmaster was a great villain, he had a lot of depth and you could empathize with him.  My only disappointment was that he sort of went out with a whimper and not a bang, and was a total non-factor in the finale.  I totally expected Tilda to be the one to off Mariah, but missed the boat on the obvious kiss of death and was caught off guard when Mariah started coughing up blood.  I'm glad she's dead, but of course will miss the performance by Alfre Woodard.  I had to laugh at the obvious Godfather II reference when Misty was watching Luke as the door closed on her like Diane Keaton watching Al Pacino.  Great speech from DW, who pretty much nailed it.  Good setup for Tilda and Annabella Sciorra to torment Luke next season.  I wonder what will become of Shades going forward and how he will fit in.  He was one of the strongest characters on the show this season and I hope he is still a factor.  I liked most things about this season, including the music selection.  Hope they maintain the high standard next season.

[Ottis]

On 8/4/2018 at 7:50 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I will not miss Shades and his smarmy smug ass.

I've been thinking about Shades and how Rossi played him. YMMV, but I thought Rossi was way too stiff and formal. Think about what Shades might have been with some actual warmth and emotion (even as he was a murderous criminal), vs. the stilted confessions about what happened with Comanche in prison. And how powerful would have been his turn to being a snitch because "enough is enough" if he had shown more depth? Shades may have been my favorite character if he had been portrayed more like a human being who was a criminal than as almost an insecure robot. More stuff happened to Shades than anyone else, and yet it almost seemed to bounce off of him vs. be part of him. I wonder if Rossi played him as he did because he was asked to, or it was Rossi's choice, or Rossi couldn't play him any other way. 

[Dobian]

@Ottis I don't know, I liked how Rossi played him.  And maybe I'm biased because I liked him in Sons of Anarchy.  But I felt emotion from the character, it's just that he held things close to the vest.  But you could see the pain and sorrow in his eyes.  Even when he was mouthing off to Misty, in the next moment his eyes would betray him and you could see what he was really feeling.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Dobian

[Taryn74]

14 minutes ago, Dobian said:

@Ottis I don't know, I liked how Rossi played him.  And maybe I'm biased because I liked him in Sons of Anarchy.  But I felt emotion from the character, it's just that he held things close to the vest.  But you could see the pain and sorrow in his eyes.  Even when he was mouthing off to Misty, in the next moment his eyes would betray him and you could see what he was really feeling.

 

I agree.  I liked Shades a lot and thought the character was portrayed well.

The only thing I really didn't buy was his (apparent) genuine feelings for Mariah.  I thought he was playing her all the way up until the final episode.  Heh.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Taryn74

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Marvel's Luke Cage + 13 Reasons Why | Mike Colter x Alisha Boe

[Ottis]

On 8/7/2018 at 12:33 PM, Taryn74 said:

The only thing I really didn't buy was his (apparent) genuine feelings for Mariah.  I thought he was playing her all the way up until the final episode.  Heh.

If that had been true, then i could have better understood how Shades was portrayed. Because he did keep a lot inside, and I kept wondering if it was a choice or a direction of an actor's limitation. It worked better on SOA (which I also watched), because he was playing a newbie/jr member, basically. Someone who would do anything to be accepted, and not drive things himself. In Luke Cage, he was a driver. He propelled events forward, and while sometimes people wouldn't listen to him (Tone, last season, shooting up Pop's, and Mariah this season), he still instigated many things. But he always did so almost dispassionately. I supposed you could see something in his eyes, but mostly to me they just looked wet regardless of what emotion he might be feeling, and his expression never changed. 

Between that and Mariah being all over the place, those two were inconsistent but enjoyable. Misty was spot on, I thought. I still enjoyed the season a lot.

[immortalfrieza]

I'm late I see, but I've just got to say that Luke is either a moron or in denial. Luke seems to have no clue why what he did to Cockroach was wrong and is completely indignant when people call him on it. "I do the right thing and I'm the one in the wrong?" No Luke, you weren't wrong for stopping Cockroach from beating his wife and kid, you were wrong because you could have stopped him with a flick of your finger with little real damage all told yet instead you beat him to within an inch of his life. It's the fact that Luke was unnecessarily excessive with his use of force that was wrong and it just completely flies over his head.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I thought it was okay. They easily could've and probably should've cut the season down to 10 episodes. IMO there was too much filler that didn't add to the storyline. Hope the series does get a third season though.

[Kel Varnsen]

14 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I thought it was okay. They easily could've and probably should've cut the season down to 10 episodes. IMO there was too much filler that didn't add to the storyline. Hope the series does get a third season though.

Rather than cut down the episode number i think i would rather they cut the episode run time. Most or maybe all were 60 minutes or more. They didnt need to be that long and i found some parts of some episodes a real drag to get through 

[festivus]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:32 PM, millennium said:

Is it wrong that I find Bushmaster a more interesting character than Luke Cage?

Everyone on this show is a better character than Luke Cage. I'm really struggling to get through this season and now that Claire is gone it's gonna be a chore. At least I didn't fall asleep during this episode, but I was close. I am looking forward to Misty getting that robot arm though.

[millennium]

56 minutes ago, festivus said:

Everyone on this show is a better character than Luke Cage. I'm really struggling to get through this season and now that Claire is gone it's gonna be a chore. At least I didn't fall asleep during this episode, but I was close. I am looking forward to Misty getting that robot arm though.

I won't tell you not to waste any more of your time, but I will tell you that I finished the series and will never watch another episode of Luke Cage.

[festivus]

Well now I'm going to have to finish it just to see why you say that. 

[festivus]

Finally this season is starting to get good. Misty's got her arm and dude I did not see the Shades and Comanche stuff coming. That was a good scene. Things are finally starting to get interesting. I didn't even feel like punching Luke for once.

[festivus]

I actually enjoy the Shades character but now I'm hoping that he has to watch as Mariah, a person that he thought loved him, puts a cap straight through his heart.

Edited September 6, 2018 by festivus

[festivus]

Now that was a good episode. Luke and Danny's friendship was the only thing I liked about The Defenders so I liked seeing that again. Danny is just so much better around Luke, now I'm excited for Iron Fist. He seems to have gotten over his never ending whine-fest.

 

Damn Mariah girl you cold. Even Shades is like, fuck this noise. I still want her to take him out though. See what you traded your best friend for there son? I think Bushmaster is just as horrible as Mariah so it's not like I'm rooting for him to take her down either. Maybe it'll be Tilda.

I need a Sweet Christmas hoodie.

[festivus]

Damn, I take back what I said in the last episode thread, nobody is as bad as Mariah. That woman got no soul. Two episodes to go and I have no idea what's gonna happen.

[slayer2]

I loved the callback from Shades of Cottonmouth's line after Pops death and after the Rum Punch Massacre. "Believe it or not there are actual rules to this shit" I just adore Shades, him and Bushmaster and the Bushmaster family are the reason I finished the season. Probably won't be watching Luke Cage for another season though. Can't stand the titular hero. 

[slayer2]

On 7/5/2018 at 2:48 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Netflix does closed caption and Luke Cage was specifically closed captioned. The closed captioning for the Jamaican slang wasn't always spot-on. Like one of the characters might say "Him a hard man to dead" and the closed captioning would render it "He's a hard man to kill."

Although I don't have hearing issues, I watch everything with closed captions. Some people do not. 

That's what that means though. 'He's a hard man to kill.' So that is spot on. It's a translation as a previous poster said. If you put it on captions they will translate the patois for you. I for one loved the patois. Mustafa Shakir and Kevin Mambo in particular nailed their Jamaican accents. Too often Americans doing Jamaican accents becomes offensive in a cartoonish caricature sort of way but for once I felt well represented by these two. 

 

Quote

Mustafa Shakir's Bushmaster was a great villain (glad they didn't kill him off). So that was something positive. Overall, I'm just Luke-warm on this season.

 

 

Agreed, Bushmaster was everything to me, him and his family were the heart of the season IMO. I also superdug Shades. I'm at a table of one for enjoying Shades and Mariah but I would have enjoyed it more if Mariah was fully bought into it. I felt strongly that Shades loved her but not so much the opposite. Wrt his bf I liked that arc a lot though I feel his bf got what he deserved as it seems he was cutting a deal to sell-out Shades when Alvarez caught him on the roof. He truly begat his own death after setting things in motion due to his jealously over ShaRiah IMO. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by slayer2

[slayer2]

On 7/12/2018 at 11:26 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

I just wiki'd Rosalie and it IS Annabella Sciorra.  At times I was catching her distinct voice but then when I'd look at her, I wasn't 100% convinced.  We all age, but I had a hard time placing her.

I knew it was her immediately although I kept getting thrown off because there is another character mentioned in the crime family with her exact name. 

 

Also I failed to mention this before but Luke sucks. He was actually gonna kill Bushmaster over Mariah? You stupid fuck! It used to be Danny but now Luke is my least favourite Defender. I don't know if it's like a poster (or two) said about Colter being wooden but he has zero chemistry with anyone but Jessica and Danny IMO. It's become really hard for me to root for him. As far as I was concerned they could have killed him off and given the show to Misty, Bushmaster and Tilda. What does it mean when you're the least compelling thing in your own show? Of course part of it could be the Tom Welling/Smallville effect. The unfortunate causality of playing a straight character when everyone else gets to have colours but I just really don't feel anything for this dude. One and a half seasons (didn't make it through the rest of season one after Cottonmouth) was enough. If I watch it again probably going to fast forward through all his parts although I'd rather we just skip it and get a Daughter's of the Dragon show and Tilda and Bushmaster can show up on that. I can see them being like Kingpin and his wife. Real chemistry there. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by slayer2

[slayer2]

On 7/20/2018 at 6:36 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What Had Happened Was (Netflix discussion show): Marvel's Luke Cage: Pain To Power

Ahh! This is great thanks you for posting this!! 

[festivus]

Well if there's a season three Luke might finally be not the most boring character on his own show. I started enjoying the show around episode five and I realized that I don't want Claire to come back to this show. She's my favorite character in the Netflix TV verse and I think she's wasted as just "the girlfriend" character. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

Well if there's a season three Luke might finally be not the most boring character on his own show. I started enjoying the show around episode five and I realized that I don't want Claire to come back to this show. She's my favorite character in the Netflix TV verse and I think she's wasted as just "the girlfriend" character. 

I agree!  I'm very interested to see where they take Luke as the overseer of the crime lords of Harlem.

And I agree about Claire too.  I love her character, just not on this show.  She bores me to tears on this show.

[festivus]

On 9/9/2018 at 11:46 AM, slayer2 said:

I don't know if it's like a poster (or two) said about Colter being wooden but he has zero chemistry with anyone but Jessica and Danny IMO.

I agree with that. I really like him and Danny together, there's a good big bro/little bro chemistry there. I like Colter. He's not the best actor but maybe he just needs a better story to sink his teeth into. He's nice to look at anyway.

 

28 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

And I agree about Claire too.  I love her character, just not on this show.  She bores me to tears on this show.

Yeah me too. I'm not sure what I want to see done with her, maybe exploring just why she does seem to get tangled up with all these powered people without having any herself. Or something with her, Misty and Colleen. (I don't know, there's a reason I don't write for tv shows!) I just love Claire and I want more of her. 

It's funny I'm reading that people thought Alfre was playing Mariah like she was drunk all the time. I hadn't considered that, I thought she was just playing her like she was a few bananas short of a bushel. Like after she killed Cornell the last bit of whatever was keeping her sane was just gone. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

Yeah me too. I'm not sure what I want to see done with her, maybe exploring just why she does seem to get tangled up with all these powered people without having any herself. Or something with her, Misty and Colleen. (I don't know, there's a reason I don't write for tv shows!) I just love Claire and I want more of her. 

Ha!  I remember reading someone's theory some years back that maybe Claire has a superpower she doesn't recognize, that actually draws powered people to her.  It was interesting to consider.

 

1 hour ago, festivus said:

It's funny I'm reading that people thought Alfre was playing Mariah like she was drunk all the time. I hadn't considered that, I thought she was just playing her like she was a few bananas short of a bushel. Like after she killed Cornell the last bit of whatever was keeping her sane was just gone. 

I definitely agree with that.  I think until she killed Cornell she was actively resisting the family curse (so to speak), but afterward she just gave in to the Stokes in her and went more and more off the rails until she was completely gone.

 

What did you think of Tilda?  I feel she became one of the more interesting characters on this show and I can't wait to see what they do with her next season (if anything).  

[festivus]

16 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

What did you think of Tilda?  I feel she became one of the more interesting characters on this show and I can't wait to see what they do with her next season (if anything).  

I thought she was just okay up until the point she started helping Bushmaster and wanting her mother dead. To be fair there wasn't much for the actress to play until that point. Then she thought she was going to be a Johnson but she then killed her mother, lost a club she acted like she didn't want, and walked into that party looking pissed and totally fierce. That girl is a Stokes alright. Next season should be good for her.

[Taryn74]

33 minutes ago, festivus said:

That girl is a Stokes alright. Next season should be good for her.

Ha ha ha you make a good point!  Let's just hope she doesn't go off the rails the way her mother did.

[rubinia]

On 6/22/2018 at 3:38 AM, thuganomics85 said:

So, the new villain for this season is going to be the Bushmaster dude (played by Big Mike from The Deuce!)

 

This show really seems connected to David Simon's shows. Last season featured like 5 (or more?) actors from The Wire, and now we have someone from The Deuce. I also thought that bit at the beginning with the kid on the corner slinging drugs and saying, "Got that Luke Cage" was a shoutout to The Wire.

[catrice2]

 after Iron Fist was canceled I was sure this one was next. Don't know if they're going to get rid of all the Marvel shows but I'm glad that I get to see another season of The Punisher. Not sure how Jessica Jones got season 3 because season 2 was horrible and one was barely bearable. This show just didn't have the it Factor.

[nichelle]

I'm so very disappointed! I really enjoyed Luke Cage.

[BaggythePanther]

I always felt like episode 2x10 was a back door pilot for a “Heroes for Hire” tv show. And this season of Iron Fist laid the groundwork for a “Daughters of the Dragon” series. I’m curious if Netflix would consider reusing the characters for a new series, or if this is the end. 

[Delphi]

I wonder if that may not be their master plan.  Maybe they noticed that people were more interested in that than Luke succumbing to darkness and Danny following iron fist colleen around.   It's not as if the secondary characters stories couldn't be shown. 

[FishyJoe]

I wonder if this was more Disney's doing than Netflix. Disney is launching their streaming service so maybe they are looking for any reason to pull back their licenses. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

I wonder if this was more Disney's doing than Netflix. Disney is launching their streaming service so maybe they are looking for any reason to pull back their licenses. 

I imagine so, there was some talk awhile back that any streaming shows on the Disney service would be a big deal, like shows starring MCU movie actors. I can see if that happens they would want to dilute things with too many other shows out at the same time. Luke Cage and Iron Fist never seemed to get the same kind of reception as Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Punisher. I think next season of Agents of SHIELD will also be the last one.

[festivus]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part but I feel like maybe they will combine Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They sure did lay a lot of groundwork to do so especially on Iron Fist with Misty being on there for half the season. If not, then I has a sad because I enjoyed both of these show's 2nd seasons more than I did Jessica Jones.

[clack]

Luke Cage isn't going to the new DSNY streaming service, per news reports.

It was cancelled because the writers turned in the scripts for season 3, and there then arose, as they say, "creative differences" between the showrunner, Marvel, and Netflix. Maybe those differences might have been resolved if the differences were just between the showrunner and Marvel, or the showrunner and Netflix, but when there are 3 separate parties, all with their differing views, it just got too much a pain in the ass for an expensive show of limited, and declining, popularity.

[BaggythePanther]

I was enjoying the Ward/Misty interactions on IF and wouldn’t mind more of that. 

If the shows are being moved to Disney’s streaming service, is there any timeline for when they’d announce it?

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, clack said:

Luke Cage isn't going to the new DSNY streaming service, per news reports.

It was cancelled because the writers turned in the scripts for season 3, and there then arose, as they say, "creative differences" between the showrunner, Marvel, and Netflix. Maybe those differences might have been resolved if the differences were just between the showrunner and Marvel, or the showrunner and Netflix, but when there are 3 separate parties, all with their differing views, it just got too much a pain in the ass for an expensive show of limited, and declining, popularity.

Keep in mind too the insane number of characters that Disney owns the rights too. Especially once the Fox deal closes, if a Luke Cage show isn't working, you can always do a She Hulk series or a Wonder Man series or a Moon Knight series or a Blade series. There are just so many options to choose from if one you have right now isn't working.

[HunterHunted]

On 10/20/2018 at 4:00 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Keep in mind too the insane number of characters that Disney owns the rights too. Especially once the Fox deal closes, if a Luke Cage show isn't working, you can always do a She Hulk series or a Wonder Man series or a Moon Knight series or a Blade series. There are just so many options to choose from if one you have right now isn't working.

Yes, Marvel will have a wealth of characters available to them in a year, but they have not done right by characters of color and female characters in the 10 years of the MCU. So it's not that great to cancel your 2 shows with primarily minority casts. It's even worse when you consider the roles for actors of color in the film side of the MCU: the protagonist's quippy Black friend (Rhodey in the Iron Man films), the protagonist's quippy Black friend (Sam in the Captain America films), the protagonist's wise and thoughtful Black friend (Heimdall in the Thor films), the protagonist's quippy Asian friend (Ned in Spider Man), the protagonist's quippy Mexican-American friend (Luis in the Ant Man films), and the protagonist's serious straight man friend who is Asian (Wong in Doctor Strange).

They've had 4 directors/showrunners of color: Coogler for Black Panther, Hodari Coker for Luke Cage, Waititi for Thor Ragnarok, and Melissa Tanchareon for Agents of SHIELD. Five properties with female showrunners/directors: Agent Carter, Captain Marvel, Jessica Jones, Agents of SHIELD, and Runaways. These are not good stats*, especially because it looks like Marvel shoves their female and minority characters and decision makers off to the TV ghetto, neglects them, and cancels them.

But saying that they have a wealth of other characters to choose from in the future is not acceptable. It will be at least 2021 before we get a Black Panther sequel. Technically, Marvel can't do anything with any of the characters they are trying to reacquire the rights to until the deal is finalized, so at best 2022.

They canceled Agent Carter, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage. ABC has wanted to cancel Agents of SHIELD for years. I don't think they get how much residual goodwill from Black Panther that they're squandering. It really feels like a big fuck you to fans who care about diversity and representation.

And guess what? I don't want Moon Knight in place of Luke Cage. So we're supposed to get 1 headlining Black hero for the MCU? No Asian and no Latinx? But we get a couple of white ladies, who have had to dick around at the margins for years. Thanks.

This is not at all implying that Luke Cage was perfect or even not highly problematic; it was. But let's not pretend that Luke Cage didn't come out 2 years ago and trailblaze some of the themes that Black Panther would later explore. I don't think Coogler copied anything from Luke Cage, but the fact that Luke Cage was able to use rap and hip hop in its soundtrack and explore themes of Black identity, racism, class, and incarceration to some acclaim probably helped ease the minds of executives when Coogler wanted to do something similar. And even still you can tell in the appearances of the Black Panther cast in Infinity War and the lack of merchandising that TPTB thought it was going to do Ant Man numbers.

*By the end of 2019, it will be 22 movies and 12 television/streaming shows.

Edited October 22, 2018 by HunterHunted
missed Taika Waititi

[clack]

Marvel didn't cancel Luke Cage. Netflix did.

[HunterHunted]

19 hours ago, clack said:

Marvel didn't cancel Luke Cage. Netflix did.

Yes and no.

1. Netflix knows that their deal with Disney is coming to an end and they'll no longer have access to Marvel, Star Wars, and Pixar films by the end of 2019.
2. Disney has already announced their intention to create their own streaming platform. Additionally when the Fox acquisition is completed, Disney will own 60% of Hulu, which might be restructured to heavily feature their new catalogue.
3. Disney has announced their intention to create their own Marvel series on either their new streaming platform or Hulu.
4. The Disney/Netflix deal was structured in such a way that Disney/Marvel had to approve an additional season before Netflix could greenlight it. This means Netflix was always at the mercy of Marvel whims.

So Netflix might have technically canceled Luke Cage, but only after Marvel threw up enormous roadblocks to make it impossible for Netflix to make another season.

[clack]

Reading between the lines a bit, here is how I interpret Deadline's report:

The writer's room turned in their initial drafts for season 3. Marvel and Netflix sent in their editorial notes, which the showrunner incorporated. Subsequently, Netflix reduced the season from 13 episodes to 10, which led to some deep restructuring of the season arc on the part of the writers.

In the past week, the showrunner sent in the completed scripts for the first half of the season. Netflix didn't like the direction that the scripts were now taking the show. Coker ( the showrunner) dug in his heels, or at least there was a great amount of conflict. Netflix wanted him fired. Marvel backed the showrunner. Netflix cancelled the show.

[millennium]

Thank you, Netflix.   For the second time in a week.

The second seasons of both Iron Fist and Luke Cage were just awful.   Jessica Jones wasn't much better.

Edited October 22, 2018 by millennium

[diebartdie]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:17 PM, clack said:

Marvel didn't cancel Luke Cage.

Agreed, it was due to Thanos' snap.