S14.E05: Gunn And Heid

[TheSoundkeeper]

House of Worth. Purple dress.

(I'm sorry, they keep jumping into my lap like little purple fish)

https://www.facebook.com/thecorsetedbeauty/posts/1474258006209645

That color is gorgeous. But the neckline is so low!

(I think Nina would complain about the accessories. "So... mumsy. And who wears opera gloves any more?")

Edited September 9, 2015 by TheSoundkeeper

[film noire]

House of Worth. Purple dress.

(I'm sorry, they keep jumping into my lap like little purple fish)

https://www.facebook.com/thecorsetedbeauty/posts/1474258006209645

 

Wow -- the back on that! -- here's one from 1951, Schiaparelli's Chinese Lantern dress;

 

http://kollage.co.id/public/uploads/2014/04/ES2.jpg

 

And (also hers) this "Hello, are you related to the Czarina?" coat:

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/70/90/e97090a9660fe3f8ea3ef13af92f4d7b.jpg

Edited September 9, 2015 by film noire

[film noire]

That color is gorgeous. But the neckline is so low!

(I think Nina would complain about the accessories. "So... mumsy. And who wears opera gloves any more?")

 

Ha! -- yes, she would.  ("This is not purrfection, Opera is not relevant. Opera is mother of the bride. Unless of course it's "Tommy" -- the movie -- and you dress up like Tina Turner, The Acid Queen and spin in circles like a demented dreidel -- the way Michael Kors used to do back in the day, when we'd all go to his compound in Ibiza and get mad drunk and bring in the rent boys -- and I would put on my Cher wig and chaps and then my gloves  -- rubber and black and very long -- and Kors would giggle and grab at his plump sweaty toes, like a happy horny baby  --  "Oh, that Nina,  she's a sly one!"  -- as I spanked them all, one rent boy after another. But this  dress you made is not THAT AT ALL.")

Edited September 9, 2015 by film noire

[Muffyn]

I used to make these babydoll dresses in college.  Before I discovered how I could totally rock (and easily sew) a square neckline, I tried a few - a mis-shapen V/skinny U being one of them. That dress reminded me of those ill fated experiments. The fabric was even similar, with the batik/tie dye style being popular at the time. (Along with the onions on our belts - the simpsons? anyone?)

Grandpa Simpson:  "So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. Now where were we, oh ya. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because if the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones."

 

The all women team could have attached purple onions to their belts.  That would have been a great way to pull the collection together, unless of course it was considered too old-fashioned.  After all, it was the style back in Grandpa Simpson's day. 

[Julia]

The all women team could have attached purple onions to their belts. That would have been a great way to pull the collection together, unless of course it was considered too old-fashioned. After all, it was the style back in Grandpa Simpson's day.

Nothing fashionable or chic was ever worn with a purple onion. Except Erté's rainbow slaw dress, but the exception proves the rule...

Edited September 9, 2015 by Julia

[AwesomO4000]

We must have grown up somewhere near to each other in age (chic jeans), but I remember everyone emphasizing/loving the coke-skinny figure. As in, no hips, no boobs. I'm sure somewhere people liked butts and boobs, but not where I lived. They were gauche.  Too bad we couldn't have traded. :)

 

I think you were likely just a bit behind me perhaps? I somewhat remember the "heroin chic" time. The Chic jeans and Laura Ashley period I grew up in was the late 70s and early 80s... and looking at the Laura Ashley from that period, you can see how they were very much like the 1950s florals, complete with the "fitted bust." Since the dresses and blouses were cotton, if you had no boobs, you had no chance of them fitting you. The Chic jeans were the same - made for the hourglass figure. Smaller waist with large hips and flattish butt. I had no boobs or hips, but somehow a small tummy, so anything fitting my waist* would totally hang off my hips. (I did have a roundish butt.) It was a very Charlie's Angels, Farah Fawcett, Suzanne Somers type preference at that time where I grew up. Interesting that Suzanne Somers size 10 body - and maybe even Farah's size 6 - might be considered likely as on the "heavy" side for Hollywood nowadays**, but back then she was the height of sexy.

 

Wow, I never really thought about before how those Laura Ashley's were so much like the 50s style floral dresses. I guess fashion does go on a 20 - 25 year cycle... which would explain the - to me - stupid neon revival in the midish 2000s. Ugh. That started coming in at the end of my high school years... and it was just awful.

 

* If they even carried my size that is - usually there was nothing small enough for me in many clothing stores. Usually I had to go to the young boys section (cause I was short, too) - sort of embarrassing for a teen girl. I do not miss those days at all.

 

** There are exceptions of course - like for example Christina Hendricks - but in general nowadays, usually larger-sized women generally have huge bust sizes to be considered sexy, like Christina, Kim Kardashian, or Sofia Vergara. It's often about the breasts.

 

 

Heh - I can just imagine some of the designers having a heart attack having to design something for those kinds of curves. There was one designer a couple of seasons ago who tried any way he could to flatten even the models they get for this show's chests. There might've also been a female designer who did a similar thing.

[mansonlamps]

Body type is cyclical and some actresses may have been sightly curvier in the eighties, but no one would have gotten away with Kim Kardashian's butt back then either. Plus vanity sizing is so out of control it's impossible to say what size anyone from another decade would wear today. I'm still waiting to see what they come up with for the next generation so they feel thinner than this one....negative sizes?

Even bra sizes are different. My niece wears a double d according to Victoria's secret. Please, she's what used to be a C cup, which is a much less obnoxious sounding size IMO.

[Freckledbruh]

It is funny that Christina Hendricks was mentioned since Christian Siriano is her go to designer. Carolina Herrera has made a fortune dressing women of all sizes. If these designers are serious about making this a career, then they will be in for a rude awakening that their "girl" isn't a size zero (if they plan on making any decent money). I hope one of the challenges for this season is a "plus size" challenge since this year has seen at least two "plus size" models hit mainstream.

I still can't believe Candace had the women waste an entire day. That made a huge difference in the quality of the construction.

[seacliffsal]

When I first saw the colors that the women's team was working with I envisioned a resort wear collection. I think the design style would have fit with a lot of the designers as well (Kelly could have made an 80's inspired work out outfit for the resort...). I was surprised that they seemingly ruined their fabrics and then floundered to the point of not using any dye/paint.

I thought that Candice gave herself the "Gretchen" role in that she presented herself as a superior designer and then dictated what the other designers would do (i.e. going around and telling them how to adjust or change the design that they were working on). It bothered me during Gretchen's season and it bothered me during this episode.

[AwesomO4000]

It is funny that Christina Hendricks was mentioned since Christian Siriano is her go to designer. Carolina Herrera has made a fortune dressing women of all sizes. If these designers are serious about making this a career, then they will be in for a rude awakening that their "girl" isn't a size zero (if they plan on making any decent money). I hope one of the challenges for this season is a "plus size" challenge since this year has seen at least two "plus size" models hit mainstream.

 

Oh, I completely agree. I always rolled my eyes when in past challenges on this show, designers complained if their model was what they termed "plus sized", but was actually fairly normal if not slim for most people. A good designer should be able to actually "design," in my opinion, and understand how to flatter multiple body sizes and shapes... Even thin bodies can have different types - more apple-shaped, long torso, short torso, broad-shouldered, flat rear, shorter legs, etc. - and not all things look good on all thin bodies. The trick is figuring out what works on a body type and what doesn't (something that took me years to figure out with myself.) The bust can be problematic too. I've seen designers on this show get tripped up by small breasts that maybe weren't as "perky" as expected, and without support built into the design, they ended up with "those boobs are insane" - a Michael Kors favorite, if I recall correctly. (Though I think Nina and Heidi will comment on that too at times.)

 

One of the problems with the women's team this challenge was that some of the outfits they designed were not only unattractive in general, they weren't very flattering to their model's body. Ashley's for example, looked a bit worse than it was, in my opinion, because it left a somewhat unflattering expanse of chest on her model that de-accentuated her breasts and made them look spaced apart. (I thought Star Trek: TNG alien when I saw it). On a slightly curvier model, the design may have been more flattering (on a very curvy model, it might've looked silly though. I can't be sure, as I admit to not being a designer.)

 

In contrast, I found many of the M&M team's designs to be very flattering for their model's body, giving them a nice shape, especially Swapnil's and Edmond's, in my opinion.

 

Body type is cyclical and some actresses may have been sightly curvier in the eighties, but no one would have gotten away with Kim Kardashian's butt back then either. Plus vanity sizing is so out of control it's impossible to say what size anyone from another decade would wear today. I'm still waiting to see what they come up with for the next generation so they feel thinner than this one....negative sizes?

 

That could be. Just for curiosity's sake, I looked up Suzanne Somers and Kim Kardashian's measurements. They were surprisingly similar. Suzanne was slightly taller, but also supposedly weighed a little more then. I'm guessing that Suzanne's more "hips" and Kim is more "butt" though.

 

I agree with the vanity sizing thing. It's generally more annoying than anything else, since it  just increases the number of sizes I have to try on to figure out which is supposed to be mine.. and then the next thing I try is entirely different size-wise. My hubby goes in, finds his size, tries one on to be sure, and he's done.

 

Even bra sizes are different. My niece wears a double d according to Victoria's secret. Please, she's what used to be a C cup, which is a much less obnoxious sounding size IMO.

 

They have vanity sizing for bras, too? I don't get mine in trendier shops, so that's a new one on me (though that might explain a few things)... and sounds annoying. Finding the right bra size that's actually comfortable is already annoying enough. And just because I'm smaller, bra designers, doesn't mean I don't want comfortable, wider straps, so quit it with the little thin ones and single or small double hooks. Nor do I want ten pounds of padding. I'm fine with what I've got, thank you very much.

 

Actually thinking on that, I'm now looking forward to next week's episode based on the previews... to see if they have any insight on this. I at first thought that underwear would be boring, but now I'm potentially interested.

[Julia]

The bust can be problematic too. I've seen designers on this show get tripped up by small breasts that maybe weren't as "perky" as expected, and without support built into the design, they ended up with "those boobs are insane" - a Michael Kors favorite, if I recall correctly. (Though I think Nina and Heidi will comment on that too at times.)

 

Anthony Ryan's disastrous real woman dress was supposed to be for a woman who wanted her breasts minimized. He designed a strapless grecian drapey thing, and truly didn't realize until the first fitting that a woman with natural DD breasts might need to be able to wear a bra. The poor thing ended up with this.

[AwesomO4000]

Heh, I'm sure she meant minimize in size/affect and not minimize in number... as in a you-couldn't-possibly-miss-it (them) uniboob.

 

Yup, I'm now thinking actually that an underwear challenge (versus a lingerie challenge - which is a different thing, and was a whole other level of disaster) might actually be long overdue for this show.

[Pallida]

Even bra sizes are different. My niece wears a double d according to Victoria's secret. Please, she's what used to be a C cup, which is a much less obnoxious sounding size IMO.

 

I would take anything related to Victoria's Secret with a grain of salt.  I needed to get a strapless bra for a wedding and had gained some weight, so I figured I'd ask for a fitting.  The worker was so reluctant to touch me properly that she claimed I was a D cup.  Realistically I was closer to a full B (but with large band size, I tended to get a C cup and smaller band).  

[needschocolate]

One of the problems with the women's team this challenge was that some of the outfits they designed were not only unattractive in general, they weren't very flattering to their model's body. Ashley's for example, looked a bit worse than it was, in my opinion, because it left a somewhat unflattering expanse of chest on her model that de-accentuated her breasts and made them look spaced apart. (I thought Star Trek: TNG alien when I saw it). On a slightly curvier model, the design may have been more flattering (on a very curvy model, it might've looked silly though. I can't be sure, as I admit to not being a designer.)

 

This might have been one of the downsides of the women taking so long to figure out what they were and then having to start some of it over after Tim pointed out that they weren't cohesive. 

 

Or they just aren't very good at fitting.. 

[WORKSHOPTSL]

With a group of that size assigned to a task, the group must agree on a team leader: otherwise, you get the under-bus-throw-fest we saw with the women's team. Granted, the designers are not there (as on "The Apprentice") to learn to be leaders, but this is Project Management 101. Everyone needs to be heard, and the leader needs to pick a direction and make sure everyone contributes. Have none of these designers worked in an office before? Where do they get the idea that one by one, it's OK to announce how stressed you are and that your brain has shut down?

[AwesomO4000]

This might have been one of the downsides of the women taking so long to figure out what they were and then having to start some of it over after Tim pointed out that they weren't cohesive.

 

Now that you point this out, I agree it's likely that this did contribute. I think I'm remembering that the first time the models came in for a fitting, the women's team had very little for them to try on. I would think that might be a distinct disadvantage. After seeing so many seasons of this show, I think that if I ended up in that position, I'd take as many measurements as possible if I didn't have anything to try on the model. All sorts of things like inseam, length of torso, shoulders, width of chest and tummy, arms, and legs, including the knee and ankle (especially since Nina in particular seems to be very critical of length this year. Sometimes I find myself looking more closely at the screen, trying to see what she's talking about.)

[slothgirl]

With a group of that size assigned to a task, the group must agree on a team leader: otherwise, you get the under-bus-throw-fest we saw with the women's team. Granted, the designers are not there (as on "The Apprentice") to learn to be leaders, but this is Project Management 101. Everyone needs to be heard, and the leader needs to pick a direction and make sure everyone contributes. Have none of these designers worked in an office before? Where do they get the idea that one by one, it's OK to announce how stressed you are and that your brain has shut down?

The guys team didn't pick a leader though.. they worked as partners. Each contributed, offered ideas, and adapted. Each listened to the others; it wasn't a case of a leader listening to everyone and then sorting it all out and deciding.

 

The problem with the girl's team is that too many of them WANTED a leader (really, they wanted a "boss"), rather than to have an equal voice. They wanted to be told what the plan was, rather than play an active part in developing one. As you say, they just kept saying they were lost and that they didn't know what their direction or theme was, but I didn't see a single one offer up an idea to SOLVE that problem. They just kept looking for someone else to do so.

[Kromm]

The guys team didn't pick a leader though.. they worked as partners. 

We actually don't know that. Just because the show didn't show something doesn't mean it didn't happen.  If there was no seeming purpose to showing a leader being picked or delegating, they wouldn't waste time showing clips of it.

[slothgirl]

We actually don't know that. Just because the show didn't show something doesn't mean it didn't happen.  If there was no seeming purpose to showing a leader being picked or delegating, they wouldn't waste time showing clips of it.

True... but in the scenes we DID see, no one on M&M team seemed to be taking the lead, or moderating /"facilitating" in any way. If they picked a leader, then either they picked a really good one or they picked someone who wasn't all that invested in taking charge, because that person definitely didn't dominate in any visible way for us to know he was the leader. They would have had to carefully choose workroom segments in which the leader took a backseat in order to give the impression that there wasn't one. (They might have done that though.) It looked to me like true collaboration with everyone equal.

 

My bigger point though was that the girls were all too eager to pass off personal responsibility. Whether or not they actively picked Candace (and they may have.. just like the guys could have picked a leader and we weren't shown, the girls could have picked Candice and we weren't shown) they clearly WANTED a leader. So I don't think NOT picking one was their biggest problem. No one else wanted to go out on a limb and be the leader, so it was going to be Candice whether it was formalized or not. I don't think there was anyone on that team that wanted to be held accountable as a leader or a decider, or even a contributor. (Not even Laurie who "tattled" to the judges... I would have liked to see the judges ask her "So what was YOUR idea/solution/contribution towards bringing cohesion?")

Edited September 10, 2015 by slothgirl

[needschocolate]

Now that you point this out, I agree it's likely that this did contribute. I think I'm remembering that the first time the models came in for a fitting, the women's team had very little for them to try on. I would think that might be a distinct disadvantage. After seeing so many seasons of this show, I think that if I ended up in that position, I'd take as many measurements as possible if I didn't have anything to try on the model. All sorts of things like inseam, length of torso, shoulders, width of chest and tummy, arms, and legs, including the knee and ankle (especially since Nina in particular seems to be very critical of length this year. Sometimes I find myself looking more closely at the screen, trying to see what she's talking about.)

 

And get some sort of measurement where their nipples are on their chests (far apart? high up?, etc)  and notice how "perky" they are.  There have been a few incidences of nip-slips or near nip-slip,s and side boobage. 

 

I  wonder how closely the dress forms (mannequins?) they use are to the models actual body.  My mother had a dress form many years ago that she could adjust to match her body - probably not as closely as nipple placement, but at least her waist and chest measurements.  I would hope that the show would supply them with a dress form matching each of the models' measurements, but I don't think that is the case. 

[Honey]

I don't understand this reasoning.  You're not competing against people from your own team, you're competing against the other team.

 

At the end of the runway show "one person from the winning team will be the winner and one person from the losing team will be out". I'd want all the previous winners in my team, not someone I think I can easily beat.  I'd want to ensure that those people end up on the other team.  It was a 6 look collection, if 4 out of 6 of my team's design are great and two are bad, we could still be declared the winners (it has happened in the past) and then I will be safe.  If 4 out 6 designs in my team are crap, my team will be in the bottom and then I could be on the chopping block, even if my design is good (backstabbing, not getting along because I had a bad day or because I'm not very good in team environments... pick your reason).

 

It's just not a good strategy.

if your teams wins, you are competing against that person for the win/immunity.  If your team loses, the better designer usually stays.  You are not directly competing with the better designer, unless they're on your own team.  So, it's much safer for them to be on the other team.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Honey

[Mabinogia]

I think with the guys they kind of just accepted that whoever the first guy was, the one that won last challenge? was their leader. No need to pick, and then they just collaborated. But yes, the girls did seem to want someone to tell them what to do. On the one hand, I get that, because they needed a cohesive look and with so many different opinions, they needed someone to kind of filter it down to something.

Look at the guys. One is all "I want 50s" the other said he was thinking 70s, then gave it a moment and said "let's go with 50s" at that moment I knew they would come up with a better collection because it wasn't about ego. The guy who gave up his 70s was the perfect example of teamwork. Rather than bitching that he didn't get to do what he wanted, he jumped on the 50s theme and they rolled with it.

I also think that fabric design they came up with was brilliant. And the flowers Blake made being not on every single piece but enough to show a thoughtful cohesion. There was no contest. Purple is not a theme. lol

The sad thing is, as soon as I saw it falling boys vs girls I was about 85% sure the boys would win. I'm a woman but I know that you put a bunch of chicks together it has more potential to get personal, and it did. The guys put their personal shit aside and made a collection. The girls got hung up on picking their friends, and who did and didn't get picked. Whatever. Shut up and work. So you got picked last. I was almost always picked last, skinny, unathletic, quiet, shy, unliked, but I'm just gonna do my job and prove that they shouldn't have judged me. Ashley (that her name?) got picked last and decided to just give up. She's lucky they didn't want to kick off the fat girl the same challenge where she was picked last, cause other than that ruffle her outfit was pretty horrible.

[lucindabelle]

Purple is considered death though in fashion. It's NEVER fashionable.  Nor is Pink. That was the women's options (made worse by the fact that they were given no true Reds to use--even the paint was pink.

  

According to glamour and in style, blush pink is in this season.

For a very positive, self-confidant person, being picked last could be taken as a compliment.  You are sooo good nobody wants to have to compete against you on the same team.

Hah! Or, if you grew up short like me, you're just used to it and figure who cares??

  

House of Worth. Purple dress.

(I'm sorry, they keep jumping into my lap like little purple fish)

https://www.facebook.com/thecorsetedbeauty/posts/1474258006209645

 

Gorgeous. Don't know why purple gets a bad rep. Every single year plum is in for autumn. That shade was hideous though.

 

Body type is cyclical and some actresses may have been sightly curvier in the eighties, but no one would have gotten away with Kim Kardashian's butt back then either. Plus vanity sizing is so out of control it's impossible to say what size anyone from another decade would wear today. I'm still waiting to see what they come up with for the next generation so they feel thinner than this one....negative sizes?

Even bra sizes are different. My niece wears a double d according to Victoria's secret. Please, she's what used to be a C cup, which is a much less obnoxious sounding size IMO.

  

I would take anything related to Victoria's Secret with a grain of salt.  I needed to get a strapless bra for a wedding and had gained some weight, so I figured I'd ask for a fitting.  The worker was so reluctant to touch me properly that she claimed I was a D cup.  Realistically I was closer to a full B (but with large band size, I tended to get a C cup and smaller band).

Oh yes, growing up me first makeover at Merle Norman they tried to get me to minimize my lips.

I have a little round butt which was not fashionable during the 80s. I actually worked as a stripper in grad school and boy was I glad of the little round butt!

The sizing thing is ridiculous, I remember when size zero first appeared and thinking tats not a size but an insult. Now there's 00...

[WearyTraveler]

if your teams wins, you are competing against that person for the win/immunity.  If your team loses, the better designer usually stays.  You are not directly competing with the better designer, unless they're on your own team.  So, it's much safer for them to be on the other team.

 

Look at it this way, if your team wins, the probability of you going home is 0.  If your team loses, the probability of you going home is 1 in 6 (because the teams were made up of 6 members each).

 

All things being equal, the probability of your team wining is 1 in 2 (or 50%), but since not all things are equal (i.e there are some designers that are better than others)the probability of your team wining is directly related to the quality of the designers in your team.  The better the designers you have in your team are, the more likely you are to win, thus increasing that 50% chance.  Other factors influence this too, you could have a team of awesome designers that just don't work well together and have a disaster, or the judges could not like your collection at all because it's all so subjective.

 

So, you try to influence the variables you control: quality of the designers and working well in a team.

 

Since you pick before the outcome is determined, you have to make a strategic choice: do I want to be in the winning team and eliminate the probability of my going home or do I want to prepare for the possibility of being in the losing team and try to be better than the other designers in my team?

 

Since the objective is to stay in the competition as long as possible, you should pick the strategy that allows you to do that with the least possible risk and that is trying to ensure, above everything else, that you are on the wining team.  Picking for the possibility of losing is shooting yourself in the foot because you then increase your chances to be in the losing team when you could just not be in that team at all.

[slothgirl]

Look at it this way, if your team wins, the probability of you going home is 0.  If your team loses, the probability of you going home is 1 in 6 (because the teams were made up of 6 members each).... (etc)

Everything you say in this post makes sense to me. Of course people in this instance didn't get to pick their whole team or pick which team they were on.

 

That said, the only pick that made total sense to me, based on what we've been shown of the workroom, was Blake picking Swapnil. Even the guys' picks didn't always make sense. Swapnil picking Joe only made sense if he thought Joe would bring construction skills to the team. But Edmond has shown good construction too and has been more rewarded by the judges. Even if Swapnil didn't want to pick a girl because he feared it would snowball into a girls' team, picking Joe from the remaining guys didn't make much sense to me. Even Jake has shown more creativity and also good construction.. well except for the basketball dress. So there must have been a strategic reason that we can't know based on what we've seen so far, OR it was based on personal feelings about the available contestants.

 

Joe picking Jake wasn't that much of a surprise since our "knowledge" of them at this point is that they share the same view of women. They should have been able to see that they were going to end up with a woman on their team based on the numbers, but I can see that they might have wanted to control the number of women even if they threw away their chance to pick WHICH woman would be the one. If any of the guys before Edmond had picked a woman, it was highly likely that she would then also pick a woman, and so on. Jake picking Edmond was clearly because Edmond was the only guy left, although at least he was also the strongest designer left at that point.

 

The guys clearly wanted to avoid any of the women, and given what we've seen from most of them, I can't blame them. I do like seeing Merline's POV, but I can understand why none of the guys would pick her. Even though she proved she can settle down and work with someone who clearly doesn't even LIKE her, there was no assurance that she wouldn't just start the whole girls picking more (weak) girls avalanche. Whether they knew that actually playing paintball would be involved and avoided the girls for that reason (which then makes the avoidance of Edmond even MORE of a head-scratcher, because he seems FAR more athletic than Jake or Joe!) or avoided them because they aren't strong designers, isn't something we are likely to know.

 

The women made their biggest mistake (IMO) not so much in the order they picked each other, but in avoiding the men. Possibly they saw the way Joe, Jake and Edmond have worked with women in the past and had no desire to work with any of them. Or they just didn't want ANY guy on the team because he would try to take over. It would have been interesting to see the order of choice if a woman had had first pick and if the first woman to pick had NOT been Candice. Would Swapnil still have been the 1st person chosen?

 

We'll never know.

Edited September 10, 2015 by slothgirl

[Mabinogia]

Since Ashley seemed to think that Candace should have picked her then she would likely have picked Candace. I think Amanda would have picked her BFF, she seems the type. After Lindsey's pairing with whatshisname, she might shy away from picking a guy. Merlene might have picked a guy, she doesn't seem like part of any clique. Kelly would likely have picked her friend, she seems VERY young to me. IDK, I think it would have played out the same regardless if the girls went first or someone other than Candace started the girls side.

 

Now, it would have been interesting if the team captains were of the same sex, either both boys or both girls. I think that would have mixed things up. I also wonder, if it hadn't been so clearly boys vs girls if the guys would have picked a girl. I remember the second to last guy I think, after Tim made the gender comment, saying "well, since it looks like we're going that way I'll pick  (the last guy available, forget who it was)"

[mansonlamps]

It would have been interesting to see the order of choice if a woman had had first pick and if the first woman to pick had NOT been Candice. Would Swapnil still have been the 1st person chosen?

He would have if I were picking ;)

Edited September 10, 2015 by mansonlamps

[film noire]

 

Look at it this way, if your team wins, the probability of you going home is 0.  If your team loses, the probability of you going home is 1 in 6 (because the teams were made up of 6 members each).(snipped only for space)

 

Yes! -- perfectly explained, Weary Traveler (much better than the comment of mine I just edited out:)

Edited September 10, 2015 by film noire

[Calamity Jane]

Last word on Swapnil's looks, I promise -- remember the haunting National Geographic photo of the Afghan girl way back around 1980?

 

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=afghan+girl&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

 

Sorry, best I could do - can't seem figure out how to post just a photo.  :-(

Edited September 10, 2015 by Calamity Jane

[Julia]

Look at the guys. One is all "I want 50s" the other said he was thinking 70s, then gave it a moment and said "let's go with 50s" at that moment I knew they would come up with a better collection because it wasn't about ego. The guy who gave up his 70s was the perfect example of teamwork. Rather than bitching that he didn't get to do what he wanted, he jumped on the 50s theme and they rolled with it.

 

I thought that was striking because we've seen Joseph in action before, and he spoke to his partner as though she were a domestic in his employ and he had trouble keeping servants. Guess he doesn't pull that on men? Also not clear whether what kept on popping into his head was qiana disco dresses, dolman sweaters or the tie-dyed canvas pantsuits Halston made for Liza Minelli. 

 

I will give him credit for recognizing that a team competition was not the time for his shit.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Julia

[Kromm]

I thought that was striking because we've seen Joseph in action before, and he spoke to his partner as though she were a domestic in his employ and he had trouble keeping servants. Guess he doesn't pull that on men? Also not clear whether what kept on popping into his head was qiana disco dresses, dolman sweaters or the tie-dyed canvas pantsuits Halston made for Liza Minelli. 

 

I will give him credit for recognizing that a team competition was not the time for his shit.

I think if it did happen it may not have just fit the narrative the show wanted to tell that episode (women=bitches, men=good). I mean so many analysis I see here keep buying into that, but from previous knowledge of reality editing I'm skeptical it was as absolute and clear cut as the show wants us to think it was.

[Honey]

Look at it this way, if your team wins, the probability of you going home is 0.  If your team loses, the probability of you going home is 1 in 6 (because the teams were made up of 6 members each).

 

All things being equal, the probability of your team wining is 1 in 2 (or 50%), but since not all things are equal (i.e there are some designers that are better than others)the probability of your team wining is directly related to the quality of the designers in your team.  The better the designers you have in your team are, the more likely you are to win, thus increasing that 50% chance.  Other factors influence this too, you could have a team of awesome designers that just don't work well together and have a disaster, or the judges could not like your collection at all because it's all so subjective.

 

So, you try to influence the variables you control: quality of the designers and working well in a team.

 

Since you pick before the outcome is determined, you have to make a strategic choice: do I want to be in the winning team and eliminate the probability of my going home or do I want to prepare for the possibility of being in the losing team and try to be better than the other designers in my team?

 

Since the objective is to stay in the competition as long as possible, you should pick the strategy that allows you to do that with the least possible risk and that is trying to ensure, above everything else, that you are on the wining team.  Picking for the possibility of losing is shooting yourself in the foot because you then increase your chances to be in the losing team when you could just not be in that team at all.

So, we disagree, no harm in that.  ;)

 

Also, is Marie Claire (magazine) pronounced "Mary Claire"?,  because that's how HK pronounces it.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Honey

[dgpolo]

Watching the rerun it seems the pink appeared on Merline's jumpsuit -before- the men started getting shot at, I think she must have hugged one of the other women and that's how she got the pink, then she must have stayed out of paint range, like Blake so she didn't get hardly any of the other colors on her.

[izabella]

I'm wondering how the rolls of fabric didn't get splattered with paint as the teams were running while carrying them.

[film noire]

I think if it did happen it may not have just fit the narrative the show wanted to tell that episode (women=bitches, men=good). I mean so many analysis I see here keep buying into that, 

 

I don't think anybody is "buying into" anything -- the PR fans here tend to be a pretty savvy group of viewers.

 

 

I'm wondering how the rolls of fabric didn't get splattered with paint as the teams were running while carrying them.

 

Good catch.

Edited September 11, 2015 by film noire

[Passing Strange]

I'm wondering how the rolls of fabric didn't get splattered with paint as the teams were running while carrying them.

They did. There's a lingering shot of the women's barrel after the game is over and a couple of the rolls show paint spots. I didn't notice until I rewatched on my computer, where I'm much closer to the screen.

[Gbb]

I'm wondering how the rolls of fabric didn't get splattered with paint as the teams were running while carrying them.

 

I saw one take a direct hit.

[Tony]

The fabrics were rolled up, so only the first 1-2' of it is covered in paint. The rest on the inside is fine. That's probably what the teams used.

[Miss Scarlet]

I was born in Poland, though immigrated to the US before I even went to elementary school. It is a slur. Speaking of high school mentality, I got into a fight with a high school friend because when we went off to college, she wrote bla bla something something, ya Polak on my facebook wall. I simply deleted it and asked her not to say that word anymore because it offended me. And she flipped out on me and somehow turned into my fault. And I was like Bye. 

 

On topic: Not offended by a mispronunciation of Pollack that happens to sound like the word.

Wow. I had pretty much the exact same experience with a friend of mine who made an ethnic slur and when I told her it was offensive she said "no, it's not" (side note - I love it when people who are not minorities think they get to tell minorities which ethnic "humour" is and is not offensive) and then proceeded to go around badmouthing me to all of our mutual friends, claiming that I was causing problems in our friendship. It really is amazing how people are so blind to their own ignorance and insensitivity and then blame you for it, just as your high school friend did. And the person who did that to me was someone who claimed to be a "liberal", "socially-conscious" person! And her best friend was from the same ethnic group that she made a slur against and she pulled the "I can't be prejudiced, my best friend is from that group" and "I know they're not all like that, my best friend is one of them" and it's like...then why are you promoting stereotypes and slurs that could be used to discriminate against or harm your so-called "best friend"? Why would you want to perpetuate that? Anyway, I did the same thing you did and completely cut her out after that, but the whole thing was so disgusting. Props to us for dealing with that crap and cutting those horrible people out of our lives!

 

There really needs to be so much more education on discrimination and prejudice of course, but also on what people think is this "innocuous" othering (like the type of stuff Merline was saying about Swapnil in the first episode). People really have no concept of how offensive they're being or what "othering" even is. Or they do and they just enjoy othering people because they know if they do it to someone else then they're not the one being othered. I don't even know what to say about this. It's so pervasive and rampant. It's awful. 

I imagine there are MANY ethnic groups who could easily find similar stories in their family history. Doesn't make one any less hurtful than the others. Ethnic slurs of any kind are something I will not tolerate in my day to day life and I am happy to say I've gotten myself a bit of a reputation as lacking any 'sense of humor' about them. I am sure many people find ethnic slurs (and especially the jokes) as very humorous...but as funny as they may be, they are a million, million times more dangerous in the way they try to make it seem perfectly natural and fine to slam/ridicule/belittle someone for something they have absolutely no control over - their ethnic background.

 

End of rant. Sorry 'bout that - it is the one 'button' I have that is VERY easily pushed.

 

I do agree, however, that we Poles are VERY good looking.

Hear, hear! You've perfectly articulated how the dangers of these "jokes" far outweigh the amusement people get from them. I so agree and this is something that I'm "humourless" about as well. Just know that for every person who thinks you're oversensitive when you don't laugh or criticize them for their slurs, there is someone (and hopefully more than one person) who agrees with your perspective completely and would be thankful to you for speaking out about it. It makes me so glad to know that there are people like you out there. 

[slothgirl]

I love it when people who are not minorities think they get to tell minorities which ethnic "humour" is and is not offensive)

 

There really needs to be so much more education on discrimination and prejudice of course, but also on what people think is this "innocuous" othering (like the type of stuff Merline was saying about Swapnil in the first episode).

 

The thing about non-affected people deciding what shouldn't be offensive goes the other way sometimes too. I once referred to my father as being "wheelchair bound" and was severely scolded by some PC friend (who had no experience of that level of disability) that "We don't say wheelchair bound anymore, it's insulting.. we say 'physically challenged' ".

 

Umm ... excuse me, my father was held in his chair by straps so he wouldn't fall over or out. He was LITERALLY bound to the chair. If that's how my family referred to his painful debilitating condition that I watched all my life, it's not for some random PC unaffected person to tell me I shouldn't. I have also heard other disabled people use the term 'wheelchair bound', and complain that the term "physically challenged" implies that the burden is on the disabled person to 'rise to the challenge' rather than on society to create access. Of course, this was in the 80's. Now we use the term "differently abled". Either way, my father was bound to his wheelchair, making him "wheelchair bound".

 

What did Merline say about Swapnil? I don't remember anything, but sometimes I am watching with divided attention. I only remember Blake's thing about not speaking "Indian".

Edited September 12, 2015 by slothgirl

[dgpolo]

I am not giving Lindsey a pass, she didn't end up in the bottom, if she had I'm sure she would have worked her injury for everything she could.

 

I thought Ashley's was the best but she did not design for the client and the client was Heidi. I think in these kind of challenges the client -as judge- is given more say in the winner. I remember season one when Austin was out and Wendy in because of a guest star challenge for an awards show.

[PrincessSteel]

Wow -- the back on that! -- here's one from 1951, Schiaparelli's Chinese Lantern dress;

 

http://kollage.co.id/public/uploads/2014/04/ES2.jpg

 

And (also hers) this "Hello, are you related to the Czarina?" coat:

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/70/90/e97090a9660fe3f8ea3ef13af92f4d7b.jpg

Oh, good Lord...That Schiaparelli! I sigh. I die. Is anyone making anything this swoon-worthy these days?

[Lurifax]

Wow -- the back on that! -- here's one from 1951, Schiaparelli's Chinese Lantern dress;

 

http://kollage.co.id/public/uploads/2014/04/ES2.jpg

 

And (also hers) this "Hello, are you related to the Czarina?" coat:

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/70/90/e97090a9660fe3f8ea3ef13af92f4d7b.jpg

And wouldn't those have been perfect inspiration for the cities challenge for St Petersburg, rather than the lavender abomination with a cape?

[auntlada]

I think I was hoping for something like that coat.

[sinkwriter]

 

And wouldn't those have been perfect inspiration for the cities challenge for St Petersburg, rather than the lavender abomination with a cape?

 

Did they have any other fabrics besides that lavender? I can't remember them having much to work with.

[hatchetgirl]

I was shocked that Ashley want picked right away too, by either team. At 24, I totally her feeling so bad. It did seem like she was making friends and getting along, only to have the girls pick her last, then treat her like shit, then try to throw her under the bus. I must admit, I'm very pleased with her esthetic. That girl can sew!

Candace can go jump in a freaking lake with her stupid hair cut and "I only wear black" bs. I freaking hate her after this. I did not expect her to be such an exclusionary shit.

Tim will totally save Ashley.