S03.E09: And The Woman Clothed With The Sun

[Anela]

It's nice to Will interact with someone who isn't using him, or studying him like a science project. I really like Molly

 

Again, with the lack of previews for next week. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

But, that means that Dog Balls and Will's balls are not what I would choose to talk about given the circumstances ... but, she made him laugh which counts for a whole fucking lot.

And it counts even more because she knows he is doing something that is really emotionally and mentally draining so trying to make him laugh and forget about murders for even a few minutes is a kind thing to do.

I am surprised by Alana has taken on so much of Chilton's behavior, but she wears it better

It's the barbershop quartet outfit that raises her above Chilton!

[raven]

 

This time around it seems genuine, and it is a fascinating glimpse into the man who, despite what he has portrayed, is NOT all Mr. Suave Sophistication-pants.

Oh, I agree.  He likes to portray himself that way but I think when we saw him last season throwing himself on the door to get to Jack, we saw the truest portrayal.  Hannibal's many things, but I think this quote from Stephen King's "The Dead Zone" sums it up "inside the beast skin a man, yes, but inside the man skin, a beast" Hannibal's not wearing a tiger skin like in the story, but it's what I immediately think of.

 

Hannibal's getting antsy, which can't be good for anyone.  Mads, as usual, did a fantastic job of conveying controlled joy when he saw Will.  Hugh Dancy has to portray a Will that, IMO, misses Hannibal even while being happy that he's not in his orbit; well, until now. 

 

 

I think that is exactly what Hannibal's POV is regarding Will's new family, they are nothing but Will's person suit and not genuine.

I also think this is Hannibal's POV but I don't think it is true in fact (or maybe I'm hoping..)  The Will/Molly call felt very genuine to me, it was so good to hear Will laugh, and I think again that by putting them physcially together in the shot, even though they're not physiclally together, is meant to reinforce that closeness.  So happy Will adopted the dog but I'm a sucker for that kind of thing (so you get on with your rescuing too, Molly).

 

There's a big contrast with Molly/Will and Dolarhyde and the blind woman - OK, she works with him but just climbs into his car after one conversation?  It just all rang false to me, and I'm not sure about the end of their scene, when he stops her touching his face, that came off as threatening to me.  I also didn't realize he was supposed to have a speech impediment, I thought his lip was scarred, not cleft.  From reading the comments, he has an important relationship with her, so I'll reserve more judgement. 

 

I enjoyed the Freddy/Will scene, she amuses me while surpising me (took a pic of his colostomy bag?? but at least we know now how much coverage Will needs) and brings out the snark in Will.  Great coat too. 

 

So things that wouldn't happen in the real world but are real on this show - Alana being in charge of Hannibal is nearly as incredible as a totem pole of bodies and Dolarhyde easily getting a call through to a notorious cannibalistic serial killer by claiming to be his lawyer.  OK, show!  Obviously Alana and her staff aren't doing the awesome job they think they are.

 

I didn't like a living Abigail and I don't care to see memory Abigail either,  Go away, please.

 

Also, I would prefer never to hear the phrase "Verger baby" ever again.  Another storyline that went on too long, let's not waste anymore dialogue on it!

 

Even with those nitpicks, great episode. 

Edited August 2, 2015 by raven

[Captanne]

I noticed Freddie's wardrobe, hair, and makeup isn't quite so cartoonish anymore.  That's a nice relief.

[jeansheridan]

Another nice moment by RA. I love how he dove into that pie with no grace at all. It reminded me of the first time Will ate Hannibal' s food. He shoveled it in his mouth and then realized it was really good and slowed down.

I think Will does have a faint forehead scar in some scenes, but yeah that wound healed way too quickly.

I liked Alana reminding Will that it wasn't all about him. He survived Hannibal but Abigail did not.And now Will has people to lose. As does Alana. That is why that Verger baby is important. Alana has something major to live for. Hannibal made that happen. She owes him nothing and yet...It is like how Will is better at his job with Hannibal. Hannibal brings good things and bad.

Is Molly Will's person suit? She seems to be very effective. He needed some backup, so I am okay if he is faking it a bit. Is there any canon on his background? Family background I mean.

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought Will had a big ol' honking forehead scar except in dream sequences and murder/murderer vision/re-enactments.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I think Will does have a faint forehead scar in some scenes, but yeah that wound healed way too quickly.

 

 

It depends on the lighting (or how busy the make-up department is? heh) but it is faint in some scenes but rather visible in others. When he was outdoors looking at the victims' yards and ran into Freddie, it was quite visible. I even thought how Freddie is Voldemort to Will's Harry Potter, she just makes his forehead scar hurt and burn and become more visible! probably makes his head hurt too! Given the 3-years time jump though, I think it is normal that all we have of the wound now is the scar?

 

 

Speaking of Freddie, some might find this fun, the tabloid pages regarding Tooth Fairy fixed for mistakes etc. though: http://blog.tattle-crime.com/post/125684878225/fbi-in-bed-with-the-devil-all-things-considered

It cracks me up that there is a pic of Hannibal from the moment FBI arrested him. It is not like there were any reporters around. Or did those FBI guys took a pic of Hannibal on their cellphones and sold it to Freddie? Freddie sure has more influence on them than anyone!

 

Regarding promos, from DeLaurentiis Co (someone asked them if lack of promo means no episode next week):

 

DeLaurentiis Co ‏@DeLaurentiisCo 17h17 hours ago

DeLaurentiis Co retweeted ultron funk me uP

No, it just means NBC did not do a promo. We will release ours when it is ready. #Hannibal #WhatAreYouBecoming

https://twitter.com/DeLaurentiisCo/status/627721551660486656

 

NBC sucks so much....

 

Meanwhile, Hannibal was #2 in Nielsen twitter TV ratings, gotta appreciate the fandom's ongoing support.

 

DeLaurentiis Co ‏@DeLaurentiisCo 21h21 hours ago

Hannibal is still trying to convert Will from being a breeder. #Hannibal #WhatAreYouBecoming

https://twitter.com/DeLaurentiisCo/status/627664282335838208

 Apparently, "breeder" is slang for "straight" so there was that underlying meaning in that scene... one learns new things every day...

Edited August 2, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[Lostinthehouse]

 

It's been a while since I read the books, but I recall the character being much more bold than the movie version, and Rutina captured that slight desperation to connect with someone. I could be misremembering, though.

 You are remembering correctly, both from the book and the movie Manhunter.  Emily Watson in Hannibal was far too sweet.  Keep in mind that the book and Red Dragon and the film Manhunter were both products of the 1980's, therefore Reba's boldness was very much a reflection of the liberal sexuality of that decade.

 

 

I know she said something about knowing his name and everything, but the way he was looking at her, it seemed like it was the first time they had met.  So, I just had problems buying her inviting him in.

Even though Reba had only worked there for 3 months (according to her), being blind and having other senses heightened, she would not only know his voice, but also his walk and probably his smell.  Reba is lonely, Dolarhyde feels safe because she can't see his disfigurement, and we've got the perfect 1980's hook-up just waiting to happen.

 

 

Honestly, when he said that line "for my pleasure" I was all OKAY NO CALLING ALL THE POLICE NOW and my husband's all "yeah, that line came off weird in the books too."

In the book and in the film Manhunter, Dolarhyde says, "Ride with me.  It would be because I want you to."  Makes more sense that way when you consider his speech impediment (caused by his cleft lip, and presumably palate.)

 

 

 Will she be his lover or his nemesis?

I hope the show falls in line with the book and both movies.  If so, she becomes both.

 

 

 

Second, I think the Reba storyline is hard to get a handle on the way Thomas Harris portrayed it.  Michael Mann had the same problem.  In "Manhunter" I remember thinking at the time, "What just happened there?" when they slept together, "Too far, too fast." 

And, sort of, too random.  What are the chances that a blind, professional, adult woman would get laid and the guy she sleeps with happens to be a) barely known to her and b) a massive, crazy serial killer?

Lonely + accepting + 1980's morality (remember - NOT the time frame of this show, but the time frame of when the book was written) = There's your answer.

And obviously, she doesn't know he's a crazy serial killer . . . yet.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Lostinthehouse

[MisterGlass]

I agree the age of the source material is a factor.  On a related note I smiled when I saw Reba pouring developer into the canister with actual film.  I haven't seen that in a while.

 

I am fond of Emily Watson's portrayal of Reba in Red Dragon.  For me she managed to strike a good balance between naive, empathetic, and confident.  I think it will take some time for me to adapt to this version, where she is more extroverted.

 

If Hannibal saw Will's reaction to Molly just jokingly mentioning his "criminal mind" he'd probably say "thou doth protest too much"...

She knows about the traumatic experiences, given he wears the physical scars, and anyone can guess they come with emotional scars too, especially given how "public" Hannibal the Cannibal case has been, but I don't think she had a real grasp of exactly what it is Will does and goes through when he is solving crimes, or what Will really went thought last time and what his relationship with Hannibal meant to him and did to him...

 

The moment that I began to think of Molly and Will's relationship as real was when Will responded to her criminal mind comment, and she realized that she'd said the wrong thing.  That makes me think she has some idea of what Will goes through and fears, but I agreed that Will hides the truth as much as he can.  Even though Freddie made all sorts of insinuations about Will, and seems to have some grasp of how close he was to Hannibal, she writes trashy gossip.  She isn't considered a serious journalist because of her tactics and her spin, and I doubt Molly would give her coverage much credit.  Other news outlets would probably have gone with the more official story.

 

 

It's ironic that now that Hannibal is, by force of circumstance, spending as much time as possible in his memory palace, his real life and times are forcing out his own share of everything he hates about humanity and tried to convince the world he was above and beyond--the anger, the spite, the jealousy, the envy, the depression.

 

The problem with Hannibal spending so much time in his memory palace is that it has lower levels, 'oubliettes' of dark memories as the book noted.  A memory of Hannibal in the series noted that some of the rooms contain screams, but that the hallways don't echo screaming, because he hears music.  If the music stops, or if he is triggered to enter one of the darker places, he might accelerate his search for entertainment outside his memory palace.

 

It's the barbershop quartet outfit that raises her above Chilton!

 

Ha! She needs the straw hat.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited August 3, 2015 by MisterGlass

[Captanne]

I don't know -- I was in my twenties during the "sexually liberal" 80s. That's when AIDS started in the US.  We weren't all that sexually loose in my circles.  (We sure were before AIDS came 'round but not once it became known.)

 

Also, at this point in the story, it's not really a question of being sexually liberated.  'Cause, at this point, there is no sex.  It's about one's own survival instinct.

 

I still find the Reba/Francis courtship abrupt.  But I have throughout the franchise's telling of it - so no change there.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Captanne

[Bruinsfan]

In the book and in the film Manhunter, Dolarhyde says, "Ride with me.  It would be because I want you to."  Makes more sense that way when you consider his speech impediment (caused by his cleft lip, and presumably palate.)

Yeah, that wording doesn't make it sound like he's going to be taking her down to some abandoned railroad tracks in his van rather than driving her home. The way Fuller shot it Reba would have to be deaf as well as blind to get in that van.

[kmm49]

I still find the Reba/Francis courtship abrupt.

 

Since I don't know where the Francis/Reba courtship's leading I'm clueless so far as to why it's even needed. Is she supposed to represent his human side? Are we supposed to believe that crazy serial killers are human too and can fall for someone and want intimate relations?

 

Is there any canon on his background? Family background I mean.

 

l'd love to see more on Will's family. I felt what they did with Hannibal's background was rushed and just touched the surface. Maybe that's all the books shed light on but we learned nothing about his parents or much about Mischa. Disappointing.

Edited August 3, 2015 by kmm49

[The Wild Sow]

 

Since I don't know where the Francis/Reba courtship's leading I'm clueless so far as to why it's even needed. Is she supposed to represent his human side? Are we supposed to believe that crazy serial killers are human too and can fall for someone and want intimate relations?

That's about it.

Will, consoling Reba in Red Dragon:

“You know, whatever part of him was still human ... was only kept alive because of you. You probably saved some lives. You didn't draw a freak. Okay? You drew a man with a freak on his back”

[morgankobi]

Is this the first time we've seen an actual physical version of Freddie's work? Wasn't it only ever shown in blog form before? It's interesting, if so, because it seems like they are dialing back the technical savvy of the show, so maybe it won't seem as out-of-place if Dolarhyde still has a similar job to the books. It makes sense for him, since he seems to prefer older film, etc., but I'm still curious how the families get connected to his work.

[crowswork]

Is this the first time we've seen an actual physical version of Freddie's work? Wasn't it only ever shown in blog form before? It's interesting, if so, because it seems like they are dialing back the technical savvy of the show, so maybe it won't seem as out-of-place if Dolarhyde still has a similar job to the books. It makes sense for him, since he seems to prefer older film, etc., but I'm still curious how the families get connected to his work.

 

Maybe they could have him transferring film to digital though even that's dated. The Manhunter scene with the tiger made you really understand her attraction to Francis. So sad. Granny Dolarhyde needs a retro-active visit from Hannibal.

Edited August 3, 2015 by crowswork

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Mirror, Mirror, Off The Wall / Reflections in a crazy eye on Hannibal.

[Crossbow]

Will: Did the scar heal to quickly, though? It has been three years. I would think the red line on his forehead would be about right.

 

Alana: I'm probably alone in this but I've always hated her wardrobe, especially the synthetic graphic prints. But that pinstripe clown suit really made me avert my eyes. Her clothes have jumpted the shark!

 

I just loved the Francis/Reba relationship in the books. I'm not buying it so far in the show but we shall see. What I love about it is the tragedy - if he had just met her sooner, maybe all this could have been avoided. She's like this ray of what could have been.

 

The film thing: I know there are people who still use Super 8 for art films; there are probably some who still use it for family films, say if one of them was a film student or nostalgic. You can certainly still buy it.

 

I felt what they did with Hannibal's background was rushed and just touched the surface. Maybe that's all the books shed light on but we learned nothing about his parents or much about Mischa. Disappointing.

 

Fuller did say that since the entire show was baisically a prequel, he didn't want to go too much into Hannibal's past because that would be prequel-within-a-prequel. I wonder if now that they're up to the actual books, he might go back and fill in some of the past. But it would be a major casting challenge.

[Nutjob]

I definitely think Reba's willingness to go with Francis would've felt less random had we heard the same sort of background from her that we did in the Red Dragon film. Also, though, I have to remind myself not to look at it through the paranoid eyes of someone living in this time period--once upon a time, we all might have accepted a ride from a new coworker and offered him a piece of pie. Especially if, as in the RD film,

our coworkers had all told us how hot he was, cleft palate notwithstanding

.

 

Price annoyed me with his concern over the cat versus the dead children. I think he's officially on my List now.

[Tippi Blevins]

If he'd grabbed my wrist and said "trust me I'm smiling" in that totally not smiling tone of voice, I think that'd be the last time I invited him over for a piece of my pie.

[Fen]

I'm really enjoying how the tension is building - not just in the Dolarhyde plotline, but also between Hannibal, Will, Alana and Jack. 
 
The impression of Alana as a woman whose life has stalled on Hannibal, and subsequently soured, intensified here for me.  Yes, she's still with Margot and has a baby.  But her days are spent trying to understand Hannibal, and controlling Hannibal, and goading Hannibal.  In the scene where she's threatening Hannibal with the removal of his books and toilet, Hannibal's facial expression just reads as boredom and tiredness.  She's utterly tedious to him now, as well as distasteful.  Hannibal might be the clingiest ex ever - but Alana is running him a very close second.
 
I'm actually surprised by how tired I am of her this season.  Instead of just owning her mistakes, she's fixed on trying to undo them - and it just can't be done.  I'm not so certain she'll be killed off, but at this rate - it wouldn't exactly be a tearjerker.

 

DeadlyEuphoric said:

 

 

I think that is exactly what Hannibal's POV is regarding Will's new family, they are nothing but Will's person suit and not genuine. They are carefully selected by Will to satisfy his needs as he hides his true nature, even from himself. Will is desperate to have a normal, healthy life and be a father, so who sought out a normal, loving single mom who could give him that, but that doesn't change the fact that deep inside Will is dark and has the foundations to be a serial killer, which is exactly why Will won't "breed" so as not to pass on those genes to his offspring. If Hannibal saw Will's reaction to Molly just jokingly mentioning his "criminal mind" he'd probably say "thou doth protest too much"...

 

Is Hannibal right, or is he just seeing Will as he needs and wants Will to be, is debatable of course. Will does have a dark side (who doesn't?) but is it as dark as Hannibal believes it is or has the potential to be? He sure is able to make Will have doubts about himself, though.

 
I agree with your take on this, DeadlyEuphoric.  I think I would possibly add that Will did not contradict Hannibal's observations, either to his face or to Alana - and went so far as to say that Hannibal looked through him, and was inside his head.  He can't even handle being on first name terms with him.  There was a moment of smugness on Hannibal's face, and no wonder.  The relationship does not seem dead, not by a long chalk.
 
I think that Molly and Will's relationship seems warm and supportive, but it excludes a huge and fundamental part of Will's character: his ability to empathise with darker minds, and - Hannibal would argue - his own dark side.  How you respond to that is going to depend on whether you subscribe to Hannibal's school of thought about truly knowing and accepting yourself and all your potentialities - murderous or otherwise.

 

The slip about Will's 'criminal mind' again pointed to the idea, for me, that Will has told Molly precious little about this part of himself, or what happened.  If she knew more, she wouldn't have made the slip, and if she and Will were more comfortable about it, he wouldn't have become so defensive.
 
To Hannibal, this relationship is as makeshift as his with Alana, because a key part of Will's self remains hidden.  His preparation of Abigail for her new life with him and Will involved her acknowledging her own darker side and making peace with it - like it was a necessity for her new life.  He's contemptuous, therefore, of what he sees as Will's disguise. 

 

I thought it really interestingly flipped Clarice's story on its head: where she had to acknowledge her anger at her father in order to stop idolising him and seeking the approval of various father figures, Abigail had to acknowledge that she loved her father, despite everything he did.

 

Freddie, as ever, delivers unpalatable truths.  Will is a killer.  He and Hannibal did - effectively run off to Europe.  The fact that Alana has magically become wealthy and is now Hannibal's gaoler is sleazy and corrupt.

 

Francis and Reba were the least interesting part of the episode for me while still being great in their own right.  But seriously Reba - stranger danger.  Accepting a lift in a van is bad enough, but 'ride with me for my pleasure'?  That sounds like something Tobias Funke would say to Michael.

[Bruinsfan]

In the books Chilton survives at least through the end of Silence of the Lambs, so maybe Alana will make it to the series finale in one piece.

[Crossbow]

I definitely think Reba's willingness to go with Francis would've felt less random had we heard the same sort of background from her that we did in the Red Dragon film. Also, though, I have to remind myself not to look at it through the paranoid eyes of someone living in this time period--once upon a time, we all might have accepted a ride from a new coworker and offered him a piece of pie. Especially if, as in the RD film,

our coworkers had all told us how hot he was, cleft palate notwithstanding

.

 

Price annoyed me with his concern over the cat versus the dead children. I think he's officially on my List now.

 

He wasn't really a new coworker. I think she just met him, but he'd been with the company a long time. He's like a supervisor or something. I can't remember if that was clear in the show or not. I thought he sounded creepy talking to her, but I decided they're saying that because she's blind and because she's studied speech pathology, she hears him differently than we do. Maybe she's heard other people with a cleft palate talk in really gruff short phrases.

 

Price? Totally won me over with that. I like cats more than children too.

In the books Chilton survives at least through the end of Silence of the Lambs, so maybe Alana will make it to the series finale in one piece.

 

Yes, but he doesn't need to. He doesn't do anything plot-wise.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Crossbow

[DeadlyEuphoric]

If he'd grabbed my wrist and said "trust me I'm smiling" in that totally not smiling tone of voice, I think that'd be the last time I invited him over for a piece of my pie.

 

 

Exactly. That was so scary, after that I'd consider myself lucky that the creep left without hurting me and would strive to never be alone with him.

 

 

The slip about Will's 'criminal mind' again pointed to the idea, for me, that Will has told Molly precious little about this part of himself, or what happened.  If she knew more, she wouldn't have made the slip, and if she and Will were more comfortable about it, he wouldn't have become so defensive.

 

 

I thought that slip was supposed to suggest her not knowing that part of him that well, also. I think in the show Hannibal is the only person who has a real deeper understanding of Will, everyone else may know some stuff, but not all, and not so in depth, in part because Will doesn't show it to them, and in part because they lack the necessary skill set to get him. Molly, in that regard, is no different...

 

Hannibal, from their first meeting, was able to "read" Will quite well, which at first freaked Will out, but then made him open up to him more. Will's trust in Hannibal made him allow Hannibal to see deeper into himself, and Hannibal knowing him more intimately made Will trust him even more. It kept feeding into one another. That is why his relationship to Hannibal is so unique, and above all else and why that bond is not something that can be broken. Will may "want" to, but he can't, because Hannibal remains the one person he really could connect to and just be himself with, no forts or walls or hidden feelings and ideas.

 

What Molly offers Will is peace and happiness, a chance at normalcy and stability. He may not be %100 open with her and he may not be %100 true to himself when with her, but he is used to that, and I think it is not a huge price to pay for some peace... On the other hand Hannibal is exciting and chaotic, and he doesn't offer the kind of peace and happiness Molly offers, but he does offer freedom -Will can be just himself around him, no judgement, no holding back- which in some way can be peaceful too...

 

He wasn't really a new coworker. I think she just met him, but he'd been with the company a long time. He's like a supervisor or something. I can't remember if that was clear in the show or not. I thought he sounded creepy talking to her, but I decided they're saying that because she's blind and because she's studied speech pathology, she hears him differently than we do. Maybe she's heard other people with a cleft palate talk in really gruff short phrases.

 

She did mention how Dolarhyde reacts when something goes wrong at work (forgot now) so I think they did hint at him being a supervisor of sort, and been there for while...

 

 

I was fine with Price's comment. It reminded me of him not wanting bee's exterminated too. It is kind of like Will worrying about the victims' dogs, for me...

 

 

 

Hannibal "promised" to kill show Alana and keeps reminding her of that, assuming he made no such promise regarding Chilton in the book, I would say that makes for an important difference. I kind of expect him to keep on his promise. And once Hannibal breaks out of prison (and sure he will at some point), there is not much use left for Alana's character...

Edited August 3, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[GreyBunny]

If he'd grabbed my wrist and said "trust me I'm smiling" in that totally not smiling tone of voice, I think that'd be the last time I invited him over for a piece of my pie.

No kidding!  It's one thing to have a speech impediment but Armitage was grunting and growling and almost using caveman-speak.  It was so overdone I found it laughable that Reba would get in the van with him.

 

Someone upthread likened Hannibal to the wife that got tossed aside for the mistress.  YES.  That's exactly the vibe I got. "*I* gave you a child," translates to: "I gave you everything that hussy did and more and yet you love HER and not ME."

 

I don't want Alana to die, I want her and Margot and their baby to live happily ever after. Taunting a man who keeps his promises, especially ones to kill, is not a wise idea, especially since he has a history of manipulating others to be his avatars to do his dirty work.  

 

Freddie is horrible but in all the right ways.  She may run a tabloid but she asks the hard questions no one else will and cleverly connects some lurid dots (Alana getting rich + Hannibal living comfortably = they must have been an arrangement of some kind.)  "Murder husbands" oh, Freddie, you're one of us! 

 

Team Science, you don't get enough screentime!

 

1st half of the season:  Jack was awesome.  2nd half:  Jack never learns.  He's back to pushing and trying to manipulate Will for his own ends AGAIN.  Hannibal spoke the truth when he said it would be more honest to just saw open Will's skull and eat his brain.

 

Hannibal and Will, still can't live with each other but can't live without each other.  Warped romantic tragedy.

Edited August 4, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Snookums]

I think Alana keeps poking the Hannibal-bear because she's feeling the three-years strain as much as anybody. That's a long time to wait for your opposite number to make a move, especially since he's had three years of simmering resentment to cook up something special for you. It's like fiddling with a loose tooth or jabbing at a bruise--does it hurt now? Yes. Now? Yes. Just can't keep away from it, can't let it heal.

[jeansheridan]

I also like Alana for choosing to be the Watcher so to speak. Hannibal advised her to be blind but she has refused that offer from the get-go. I am not quite sure why she was a hardass with Hannibal other than to try to get some Intel on what he is thinking about Will.

I do love her likening Hannibal to a cat. He is rather cat-like.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

Turns out the Will/Molly phone scene was originally in Episode 8. They revised it, and moved it to this episode. For anyone interested you can find the production draft sides here. Apparently the "Jack convinced Will to come" scenes were rather different originally too.  http://thesilenceofthefannibals.tumblr.com/post/125711811172/protectmollygraham-cut-scenes-from-hannibal

 

As far as Will/Molly phone scene goes, I prefer the one we had this episode.Seemed warmer. And I love that she tricked him with that "I'm feeling Randy" line...

[redfish]

I am not quite sure why she was a hardass with Hannibal

 

Probably because from last season when he tricked her into having sex as an alibi. He was also supposedly a trusted colleague and that might make her doubt her ability to judge people since she's a psychiatrist. And I think it still burned her that he (through Abigail) nearly paralyzed her when she was pushed out the window, lying there helpless in a traction for her back and when Chilton visited her to rub it in her face that probably pissed her off. It's the reason why she had that session with Will in a way to warn him not to let your guard down, she learned her lesson on who and what Hannibal is. And since she already knows that Will is going to repeat the same mistake she's putting it upon herself to be the only "guard" as a previous poster mentioned.

 

Also a revenge and pettiness is a good motivator, although she should remember what she told Mason about taunting/playing with someone like Hannibal.

[sluggish neko]

Abigail as an actual character isn't that interesting. I see her more as a symbol of the bond between Hannibal and Will. She's someone they both wanted to protect and in doing so, she is what brought Hannibal and Will together. Hannibal revisiting his days with Abigail in his mind palace is him reviewing his unrealized familial relationship with Will. But I do agree we've seen too much of her at this point. They're really squeezing the last dregs of her story at this point. Let her go, Hannibal. Will already has.

 

When Hannibal and Jack were facing off, I wondered if this was where the real battle was. After all, Hannibal and Jack have had two very physical fights and it's a draw (1-1). Will seems like a pawn the two men push back, something like a special game piece the men fight over to control. In any case, Will's relationship with either man isn't good for his health. 

[Bruinsfan]

El Rey Network just had Manhunter on last night, so I watched to compare and contrast with the season so far. It was interesting how closely Will's scenes corresponded between film and show, but the setup with Dolarhyde and Reba had about 1000% fewer warning flags that should have been apparent to her. Movie Dolarhyde comes off as socially awkward and shy when dealing with her, not as a raspy-throated feral lunatic, and makes the offer to drive her home while they're both still at work in a safe and familiar environment. (Also, during the ride he takes her to a zoo facility to pet a sedated tiger, which certainly eliminates any mystery about hopping into bed with him quickly—if someone ever made that romantic gesture to me the sexing would commence before the ride home was over.)

Edited August 4, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[Nutjob]

 

He wasn't really a new coworker. I think she just met him, but he'd been with the company a long time.

That's what I meant. He was new to her, but certainly not to the company. It'd almost be like going to lunch or an after work drink with someone from a different department at a job you just started. I don't think many of us would think twice about that, especially if we were single and, perhaps, heard positive things from our other coworkers.

[cheyz]

I thought Alana was warning Hannibal off of Will.

 

The tiger scene already happened in the movie? Hope they still use it here, love that scene!

[Bruinsfan]

Yes, Dolarhyde asks Reba if she would mind him taking her on a side trip during that initial ride. As a first date, that would be pretty difficult to top.

[Crossbow]

I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to have Hannibal commited to a place run by his ex lover. It's just as good as Alana's idea to have Will's psych eval done by the person who went through the trauma with him.

[Snookums]

I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to have Hannibal commited to a place run by his ex lover. It's just as good as Alana's idea to have Will's psych eval done by the person who went through the trauma with him.

 

 

Honestly, in the real world none of these people would be permitted anywhere NEAR Hannibal Lecter, let alone consult with him/visit him/run the institution where he's incarcerated. The very idea would be laughed out of court. Not to mention it seems like Italy hasn't made a peep about extraditing the guy back to stand trial for the approximately eight hundred murders he committed as Il Mostro. (Is Hannibal even an American citizen? I can't think of anybody I'd be more delighted to escort to a Lithuanian prison, myself.) 

[Bruinsfan]

I think the US would have prior claim on his disposition what with the Chesapeake Ripper murders and the attacks on Crawford, Graham, and Abigail Hobbs.

[Crossbow]

I don't recall them having any proof that he was Il Mostro. I'm not sure whether they could even prove he committed any murders as Dr. Fell.

[Captanne]

Well, the corrupt officers clearly knew and if they knew they probably gossiped around the police office version of a water cooler.  No honour amongst thieves, after all.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Captanne

[MisterGlass]

I'm sure they gossiped, but Hannibal's dealings in Italy twenty years ago are probably past the point of going to trial, if there was ever enough evidence.  Of his modern feats, probably the only one they can prove is Pazzi.  There are many more known and suspected murders in the US, and at least three living victims.

 

Will isn't the first person Jack has used in an attempt to stop a killer.  Miriam and her fate are a result of Jack's attempts to catch Hannibal.  Jack holds Miriam against Hannibal, and I think he enjoys flaunting the fact that Will survives and continues to work for him.  He will push Will as far as he can.  Jack wants to win, which to be fair means saving people.  Hannibal also wants to win, but he plays a long game.

[pasdetrois]

Will and Molly have great actor chemistry.

 

Can't stand Rutina Wesley, so her casting is a mis-step for me. Plus, I know that some blind people have enhanced senses and one would think the character would pick up on the weirdness emanating from Dolarhyde. Maybe they are going for the "attracted to danger" angle in this series. Emily Watson sold the clueless sweetness better.

 

Otherwise, our show is back to firing on nearly all cylinders.

 

I loved watching Hannibal lovingly handle Abigail during the murder re-enactment.

 

And he must be experiencing profound rage and boredom, being caged (and deprived of his fabulous kitchen and wardrobe), yet Mikkelsen expresses it only with the turned back, the downcast eyes, and the slight swallowing. As Alana taunted him about the toilet and indignities, he gave a little swallow and I thought "Alana, you in danger girl." I think her comment about Hannibal being only five doors from escape will come back to haunt her.

 

The lab techs' fussy argument about killing pets was note-perfect.

 

I could watch Hannibal and Will torture each other all day. And hopefully we will get more seasons somewhere.

Edited August 7, 2015 by pasdetrois

[mledawn]

I think [Alana's] comment about Hannibal being only five doors from escape will come back to haunt her.

 

Absolutely agreed - too specific to be a throwaway line.

[John Potts]

Honestly, I have trouble telling all these immaculately dressed brunettes apart, so I was going "Is that the younger Alanna/Margot Verger/Clarice Starling* or somebody else I'm meant to recognise?" They tend to shade into one another (rather like that lesbian kaleidoscope a couple of episodes back!) in my mind. Mind you, Hannibal really was a dedicated psychiatrist if he went to the extent of digging up her dead father just so she could "kill" him, though his slightly regrettable tendency to kill/eat/induce to murder his patients would probably be frowned on by the APA (you'd hope!).

 

Though other than that, this episode was hitting Red Dragon really hard (that whole "Reunion" scene between Hannibal & Will was pretty much straight from the book). And DeadlyEuphoric, I'd say Hannibal regards Molly as not so much like a mistress but like an unsuitable second wife who's young enough to be Will's daughter and indicative of a midlife crisis. And Snookums, you're absolutely right that IRL none of these folks would be allowed anywhere near Hannibal (but then there's be no story!). I really didn't understand why Alana was not only allowed to be running the facility where Hannibal was kept but was actually "poking the bear", because I can't see that ending badly!

 

Personally, I prefer the sparse look of Manhunter with the characterisation of Ed Norton's Will.

 

As for the Tooth Fairy case, I thought Freddie was really relishing her role as a hack (loved her "I put a very generous black box over your junk!" because that was such a believably sleazy line). Not so sure about Reba because I find it had to believe a blind woman would get into a car with a guy who was literally grunting wile eating that pie (OK, that was later, but presumably it was symptomatic of how he acts at work). And I love his reasoning on the tiger, "Chicks dig cats right? Then they must REALLY dig tigers because they're like a huge cat!"

 

Snookums Not to mention it seems like Italy hasn't made a peep about extraditing the guy back to stand trial for the approximately eight hundred murders he committed as Il Mostro

 

 

Personally, I can imagine that given the rampant corruption portrayed in the Italian cops they'd rather stay 5000 miles away from the case!

 

* I know Clarice isn't in this, but whatever they're calling her Expy in this

Edited August 7, 2015 by John Potts

[Fen]

 Let her go, Hannibal. Will already has.

 

You could argue that Will didn't so much let her go, as replace her with Walter.  It's probably what Hannibal would think of it.

 

Probably because from last season when he tricked her into having sex as an alibi.

 

I think he was interested in a romantic relationship when he was still interested in having a 'people suit', and crafting a version of a real life, or that weird period where he was enjoying 'being' Will - helping the FBI, etc.  The night where they end up having sex, Alana is the one who makes the initial move.  I think he completely capitalised on it (since Jack's flying visit to his dinner party had forced his hand), but he didn't 'trick' her, for me, anyway.

 

It's weird, although we can see which parts of Hannibal's behaviour and actions are insincere - it's almost like he sees them instead as versions of the truth.  Or possible truths.  Back in s1 and 2, he prefers a version of reality where he is Bedelia's friend, not her patient.  He sends Jack the note of condolence about Bella as if they were genuinely friends on some level.

[Bruinsfan]

I suppose next to Bedelia and Will, Jack is the closest thing Hannibal has to a friendly colleague.