S12.E10: Top 18 Perform + Elimination

[crowceilidh]

Speaking of gasping at daring... Travis is being pretty honest in this blog, I'm a little surprised:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/28/so-you-think-you-can-dance-mentor-blog-travis-wall-asaf-elimination?hootPostID=4ac904303e1f0f800d9a17f5c7c35444

[Anothermi]

Speaking of gasping at daring... Travis is being pretty honest in this blog, I'm a little surprised:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/28/so-you-think-you-can-dance-mentor-blog-travis-wall-asaf-elimination?hootPostID=4ac904303e1f0f800d9a17f5c7c35444

 

Hee! I think I'm more surprised that I agree with his honesty in this blog. I think he's always honest - but he's often deluded at the same time. 

[TrudyC]

Liked:

 

*Hailee and Virgil's robot dance. And, yes, I even liked that they stayed in character, which I thought was an amusing moment during the judge's comments. It put a nice spin on something that often develops into being overly serious, self-important, and, at the very least, boring. Most importantly, they brought it with the dance, and they were so much fun to watch.

 

*Kate and Neptune: I need to rewatch, because I'm sure Neptune was great in this, but my eyes were always on Kate. There is something about her--what's the correct terminology--kicks? Extensions?--that I think are beautiful. I also enjoyed watching their reactions after they finished. It seemed like this might have been the first week where Kate felt like she was able to show what she is capable of, outside of the group routines. Maybe?

 

*Jaja, Derek, Alexia: I watched Jaja most of the time. I know people weren't blown away by her here, but for some reason, I thought she did very well with this. I really like her, though, so I'm probably just biased. I also really like Derek, and I hope he starts to get more attention. Alexia and Marissa both fall into the same category for me: people who are talented, but for some reason I don't connect with their dancing. Probably more of my problem than theirs, but there you have it.

 

*The contemporary group dance: I loved this one, and I hope we see more from that choreographer. 

 

Didn't like as much:

 

*The street group dance. I was SO excited about this for some reason. When I heard which song they were dancing to, I had high hopes. It was meh. 

 

*Asaf staying and Moises leaving. I would have preferred to keep Burim over Asaf, but I really wish Moises could have stuck around for longer.

 

*About 90% of the stuff that came out of Nigel's mouth.

Edited July 29, 2015 by TrudyC

[Toaster Strudel]

So Asaf hogs all the choreographer's time and attention at his partner's expense, I hadn't thought of that.

[Rahul]

This show is so difficult to watch this year. This whole contrived "stage vs. street" rivalry is awful for so many reasons.

 

Why was Asaf saved, exactly? He was the worst performer of the night. That cha-cha -esque number was so painful to watch, I wanted to avert my eyes.

 

I wish Asaf and Burim had both been sent home instead of Moises. Actually, I wish they had never made it to the top 20 seeing as neither of them are really capable of picking up choreography. Hell, they were having difficulty in their own breaking style just last week.  Do the producers think we don't notice how these two are always placed in the back, leave the stage for large periods of time and constantly have the choreography either watered down or changed entirely because they are incapable of executing the steps??

 

I wish Nigel would step off his high horse and stop defending the format. Clearly it was a mistake not having these people dance in all genres during Vegas. The top 20 has suffered gravely because of that decision, and Asaf and Burim are dragging down every routine they're in--including the group numbers.

 

Just so that I don't end this post on a negative note, I was very pleasantly surprised at how well Eddie "Neptune" was able to emote in his number. He really pulled focus from his partner Kate, whose name I only learned this week. Also, Hailee did a terrific job in her hip hop robot routine. I'm just miffed the judges didn't highlight how she managed to outshine Virgil (who was good) in that routine.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wish Nigel would step off his high horse and stop defending the format. Clearly it was a mistake not having these people dance in all genres during Vegas. The top 20 has suffered gravely because of that decision, and Asaf and Burim are dragging down every routine they're in--including the group numbers.

What annoys me is that if Nigel really wanted more street dancers in any other season, he could have. There was nothing in previous seasons that said he couldn't have four female street dancers in the top 20. He just CHOSE not to do it. So in that vein, the stage vs street format is not necessary. If you want more street dancers, just put more of them in the top 20. But it's ridiculous to act like changing the format was this game changing innovative decision. No one made him fill the top 20 with contemporary dancers in past seasons.

 

But yes, I totally agree that a huge part of the format change was not having the street dancers do any non-street dances in Vegas. The whole point of Vegas week is to see if you can do styles other than your own. By not doing that this year, how can any of the judges act surprised that Burim and Asaf have not done well in other dance styles?

[Rahul]

Oh for fucks sake. Burim or whatever his name is, should have stayed since he actually succeeded in doing the choreography. BAh.

 

Well, to be totally fair, Burim succeeded in the African jazz choreography more than Asaf doing the "club cha cha" but you could see from the video package that Burim's steps had been either simplified or changed completely since he was unable to pull of the original choreography. For example, in the video package all three dancers were doing the quick flailing hands but during the live performance Burim was in the middle, squatting on the floor while alternately extending one leg to the side, while looking in the same direction. Very weird. Reminded me of my very first year of dance when I had a jazz routine to "Disco Inferno" where I did something similar.

 

I always look forward to Sean Cheesman and his numbers but sadly this one was disappointing because it had to be tailored around what Burim could and couldn't do.

 

I hate how Asaf is being treated with kid gloves. Was there really no one better that could have taken his place in the top 20?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rahul

[traboule]

What I liked about this episode was that only a few of the choreographers were SYTYCD regulars. Justin Giles, Reina & Asiel, Jaci Royal, JaQuel Knight, Tovaris Watson, and Marty Kudelka were all new names to me, though a quick Google search shows that at least one of them (Giles) has been on SYTYCD before. Anyway, though I may not have liked all of the dances they choreographed tonight, I liked seeing some new faces in the rehearsal studio.

 

Opening number Top 18

This group number seemed a little muddled - the costuming and camera-work may have contributed to that impression, but choreography and execution by some of the dancers were certainly factors. That said, it had a strong opening by the five boys - Virgil, Neptune, Moises, Edson, and Derek. Moises especially stood out to me here, and Neptune definitely made an impression throughout the dance. Might need one of those fans the girls had. ;) As far as the girls, Alexia drew my eye. Gaby did well with some close-ups - she can be very charismatic.

 

Stacey Tookey Contemporary with Alexia, Jaja and Derek

Didn't see the point of the super-specific characters Stacey gave the dancers. There were some beautiful tableaus created by the dancers but it was fairly run-of-the-mill contemporary for this show, livened up just a tad by having three dancers instead of two. JaJa did fine - no real wow moments for me, but nothing awkward. Alexia was strong. Derek is a talented dancer but he almost never stands out to me. Alexia and Derek have remained in their wheelhouse so far in the competition (jazz/contemporary) so they're due for a genre challenge.

 

JaQuel Knight Hip-Hop with Megz, Moises, and Jim

As much as I like all three dancers, I just couldn't get into this performance. It felt like a warm-up piece for a larger follow-up act that never came. It seems out of place on a big empty stage. It's a style that seeks to hype up an audience, but the stage distances them from that audience. There was no sense of a feeding cycle of energy. The boys seemed to get the dance steps generally right, though.

 

Tovaris Wilson Jazz with Edson, Yorelis, and JJ

I found this performance rather boring, but then I don't find JJ or Edson to be exciting dancers (though they are pretty). As she has in the past trios she's done, Yorelis stands out. She's got an extra snap to her movements. Hope she gets showcased in a duo next week.

 

Jean-Marc Genereux Club Cha-Cha with Marissa and Asaf

This was so bad. I think the judges were too harsh on Marissa, who I though acquitted herself decently outside of her wheelhouse, and with Asaf as her partner to boot.

 

Sean Cheeseman African Jazz with Ariana, Gaby and Burim

I wanted to like this one more than I did. The girls were definitely beasty, but I kept thinking they looked out of sync with each other, more than once. I barely watched Burim, since the girls were given more interesting things to do in the choreography. Ariana and Gaby backflipping over each other was pretty cool, though either they or the choreography didn't quite know how to end that sequence.

 

Justin Giles Contemporary with Neptune and Kate

I was moved by this delicate contemporary number - I loved the specificity of the arm movements. Neptune and Kate had great chemistry. I wonder if they benefited from having danced together the week before. (Gaby and Burim are the only other two dancers that had been in the same group last week, not counting opening or team performances.) Kate is another one that's been in her wheelhouse throughout so far, so I'm curious to see what she'll do next week. Anyway, this piece was probably my favorite of the night.

 

Pharside and Phoenix Hip-Hop with Hailee and Virgil

Very playful. Liked the choreography and Hailee and Virgil were well-matched, which was evident even in the rehearsal package. I can't be too mad at them for extending the robot bit too long, though I think it would have been nice for them to respond to the judges out-of-character. Mugging for votes in-character makes sense though.

 

Team Stage performance

I liked this quite a bit. There were some interesting ideas in there, choreography-wise. The moment in the middle when the group stood in a line and then slowly expanded outward and upward made me think of a time-lapse video of a flower opening. The group felt cohesive. Kate stood out in this, which was both due to choreography and her own strength as a dancer.

 

Team Street performance

I still prefer the first group performance they did, but some of the dancers looked real cool here. As someone said earlier in this thread, I think the Team Street group performances will get nicely tightened up once we lose the weaker links. Lily would have done well in this piece though. :(

 

Results: Like others, would have preferred Burim to be kept over Asaf, though I wouldn't have kept Burim around much longer either. And I would have taken Moises over Edson. I was very excited about Moises, and had hoped he would go further.

 

Thoughts on the show in general: I do feel that with this season we're getting more frank appraisal of the dancers by the choreographers in the rehearsal segments, added to by the team captain comments. Not every time - there is still some fluff in the rehearsal packages - but still I've gleaned some interesting insights.

 

Dancers I'm excited about currently: Neptune, Kate, Alexia, Hailee

[Rahul]

Stacey Tookey Contemporary with Alexia, Jaja and Derek

Didn't see the point of the super-specific characters Stacey gave the dancers.

 

Meant to comment on this earlier but I was so worked about Asaf's worthless ass being saved yet again I forgot. Nothing in Stacey Tookey's dance spoke of a single mother (or even the girl in the abusive relationship). Absolutely nothing.

 

It really annoys me that every contemporary number on this show has to tell some profound story, when clearly half these numbers are just comprised of people moving in random patterns, reaching out and rolling around on the floor.

 

I wonder how much of these "stories" just come from producers pressuring the choreographers into having something more than an abstract dance. I'd take Mark Kanemura's nonsensical K-pop routine ("Jenna and the braid") over an overly sentimental about nothing contemporary dance any day. At least Mark's choreography was highly entertaining and unique.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rahul

[Anothermi]

What I liked about this episode was that only a few of the choreographers were SYTYCD regulars. Justin Giles, Reina & Asiel, Jaci Royal, JaQuel Knight, Tovaris Watson, and Marty Kudelka were all new names to me, though a quick Google search shows that at least one of them (Giles) has been on SYTYCD before. Anyway, though I may not have liked all of the dances they choreographed tonight, I liked seeing some new faces in the rehearsal studio.

 

I recognized Justin Giles, Marty Kudelka and Tovaris Wilson (you got his name right in your dance-by-dance review, but Daniel put down Tovaris Watson in his recap, so you're not alone). I had to look up which seasons they did and it goes waaaay back for Tovaris and Marty. Both of them choreographed in Season 1 & Tovaris  also worked in Season 2. Marty turned up again in Season 7. Marty returned in Season 8 and Justin Giles appears for the 1st time that season. Justin appeared next in Season 10. They don't get a lot of work with SYTYCD so that might be why it's hard to remember them, but it does make them "fresh" when they are hired again.

 

If you're interested I hunted down their routines:

Marty Kudelka

Season 1 with Blake Anthony (who got top billing) on a Hip Hop routine to "Touch" by Omarion

- Nick & Kamilla's version (well liked)

- Snow & Allan's version

Season 7 with Dana Wilson (but he got top billing this time)

- Jose Ruiz with AS Comfort Fedoke to Try a Little Tenderness

Season 8

- Caitlyn Lawson and AS Ivan Koumaev (S2) to Mario's Let Me Love You

 

Tovaris Wilson

Season 1 he did what then was called Lyrical routines:

- with Melody L and Ryan C (from Quest Crew) 

- for Blake McGrath and Ashle Dawson, and

- for Blake & Melody

Season 2 the labeling changes:

- Musa Cooper & Natalie Fotopolous, contemporary to Closer by Golpele

- Ryan Rankine & Heidi Groskreutz, Pop to Walk Away but Kelly Clarkson

 

Justin Giles

Season 8

- Top 7 Guys contemporary to Prague by Damien Rice

- Jess LeProtto & Clarice Ordaz, contemporary to Light Through the Branches by Celeste Lear

Season 10

- Jasmin Harper & Aaron Turner, contemporary to The District Sleeps Alone Tonight by Birdy (I couldn't find this one. It's premise was based on "The Giving Tree" story and although I remember loving it, it got mixed reviews.)

eta: found it!!!

Edited July 29, 2015 by Anothermi

[allypenguin]

The twitter vote is very clever:  One -- the audience get to save someone in jeopardy rather than the judges - awesome; Two -- you have to watch in real time (and therefore endure commercials) if you want to participate in the save; Three -- Nigel can mis-spell Burim (Burin) in his tweet and therefore all of the West Coast twitterers who have been waiting to save him will vote for the wrong name; Four -- the judges have both the voting stats on the bottom three AND the recent tweets to consult in order to decide who to cut.

 

Nigel is thinking of leaving the judging panel?  Can we get a rotating judge in there so we can see people like Christina, lil'C, Jesse, Adam and even Allstars?  If the show keeps going, that would be cool.

 

Also there's a Nielsen Twitter Ratings thing right? So it's a way for the show to get extra points rating wise.

 

I would like to submit my two ballet crushes that the show has had as guest judges in Misty Copeland and Fabrice Calmels...especially Fabrice because of reasons.

[Anothermi]

Meant to comment on this earlier but I was so worked about Asaf's worthless ass being saved yet again I forgot. Nothing in Stacey Tookey's dance spoke of a single mother (or even the girl in the abusive relationship). Absolutely nothing.

 

It really annoys me that every contemporary number on this show has to tell some profound story, when clearly half these numbers are just comprised of people moving in random patterns, reaching out and rolling around on the floor.

 

I wonder how much of these "stories" just come from producers pressuring the choreographers into having something more than an abstract dance. I'd take Mark Kanemura's nonsensical K-pop routine ("Jenna and the braid") over an overly sentimental about nothing contemporary dance any day. At least Mark's choreography was highly entertaining and unique.

 

I think there is a lot of pressure for this, and not just from producers. There has been criticism of this piece that people couldn't figure out the "story". There wasn't one. It WAS an abstract piece and way back in the early seasons, choreographers only gave the dancers the specifics of who their "character" was in order to help them find the emotion the piece is trying to convey. I kind of think the reaction to this piece explains why we mostly get routines that tell a story.

 

Back in Season 2 Mia gave Allison and Ryan Rankine a completely abstract piece and Nigel complained that he didn't understand it. Apparently a "good" dance tells a story, therefore dance for movement sake is not good dance. Ditto, that expressing emotion through dance is not good if it doesn't have a story.

I don't believe that is true, but I think that kind of dance is for a smaller group of dance fans, not popular culture, reality dance shows.

 

The choreographers may take a chance from time to time to bring (what I will call) more avant garde routines to the show, but they are rarely received well.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Near the end of the last montage of special moments (just before the Alex/tWitch routine) they re-show the clip of Wayne Brady responding to Fik-shun and Amy's lovely contemporary dance in the 1st episode by saying:

"Whenever I want to show my serious side I take my clothes off and dance with a white girl too."

I remember both gasping at his daring and laughing at his wit when he said 

Great memory, Anothermi.  Now that you mention it, I remember having the same kind of reaction.

 

I have to agree times have changed quite a lot since the show began 10 years ago.  However, Nigel's tendency to toot his own horn is tiresome and self-indulgent, and, even more damning, shows that he has a lot to learn about statistics.  (Next season: statisticians vs. stage vs. street!  The big reveal: each is required to know technique!)

 

ETA: I agree with Anothermi that the Tookey piece was an abstract piece, and I loved that Stacey T. only gave the dancers characters to fit a general theme.  I hope she keeps trying to do this, instead of trying to tell story pieces.

 

I also loved, loved, loved, the Mia Alison-Ryan abstract piece from S2.  That was powerhouse dancing.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[Glaadrial]

I hate how Asaf is being treated with kid gloves. Was there really no one better that could have taken his place in the top 20?

I'm pretty miffed that they didn't cast Standing Ovation. Maybe it was a boy/girl quota--nonsense reason, of course, given that they've eliminated the boy/girl couples only concept of getting to the the top 10. I am really, really, REALLY disappointed at the missed opportunity to throw gender stereotypes out the window with a pairing of Standing O and Moises doing a Contemporary routine where she lifts and supports him, and he's allowed to really highlight some of his pretty lines.

[Zuleikha]

So Asaf hogs all the choreographer's time and attention at his partner's expense, I hadn't thought of that.

I don't know if I believe Travis about that. The choreographers always have at least one assistant. Why would Jean-Michael need to have both himself and his assistant working with Asaf instead of one working with Asaf and one working with Marissa? 

 

Also, Travis doesn't do Ballroom, and he didn't do well at any in his season until he was paired with Heidi (and had paso doble, which is usually choreographed with minimal lead-follow anyway). What cha cha tips could he possibly have given Marissa?

 

I thought the cha cha sucked, but I didn't see a great discrepancy between Marissa and Asaf really. I didn't think either of them got the proper Latin motion, but I thought both faked it at the same level. Neither of them were stiff; they just weren't right. The choreography was weird to me, though. I'm no expert, but I've done some cha cha and watched a ton of it, and I had a tough time finding recognizable cha cha elements. The music also felt very slow for a cha cha. The main times Marissa stood out to me were during the lifts were Asaf did seem to stop dancing to do the lift. She knew how to flow into her part, but he didn't know how to flow into his.

 

I don't really care that the judges saved Asaf over Burim because to me that's six of one, half a dozen of the other. I thought Burim did better this week and probably should have been saved on the basis of that, but I also think he did better because Cheesman did a better job with the choreography. If Asaf was in the African Jazz and Burim was in the cha cha, I think Burim would have been the one who performed worse. Both are clearly struggling with picking up choreography, and both should be early boots. Both are also attractive men with great abs, so if the judges have a reason for wanting to keep Asaf longer, I doubt it's looks. Either editing is misleading us about how much of a PITA Asaf is and Asaf is actually really great energy behind the scenes, or next week is going to feature the return of solos and they think Asaf will deliver a more interesting, innovative solo.

 

I remember in All-Stars thinking the energy of the show was hurt with the partner swapping every week, and I think we're suffering that this season, too. There were some great performances tonight, but there's just something special about the chemistry that develops when the same pairing has to work together. There can be spectacular failures (Lauren/Neal), but IMHO, the successes are what make the show. I think it also does help to have that continuity in these early weeks when the dancers are going from style to style. 

[allypenguin]

Speaking of gasping at daring... Travis is being pretty honest in this blog, I'm a little surprised:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/28/so-you-think-you-can-dance-mentor-blog-travis-wall-asaf-elimination?hootPostID=4ac904303e1f0f800d9a17f5c7c35444

 

LOL dang Travis.

 

 

When you get Asaf, it’s a completely selfless week. You can’t even work on yourself, and the choreographers don’t even really get to work with you. I was giving Marissa tips on her cha-cha steps, and she was like, “Wow, I haven’t heard any of this.” So when the judges said, “You were performing to the audience, and you should have been looking at Asaf,” I think she was looking at Asaf. But then she had to think about herself in this performance. She can’t just ride in the passenger seat into a car crash.

[OakGoblinFly]

Also, Hailee did a terrific job in her hip hop robot routine. I'm just miffed the judges didn't highlight how she managed to outshine Virgil (who was good) in that routine.

 

Because that would detract from the powers-that-be's narrative that the "street" kids are "untrained" and isn't it amazing that a street dancer can emote, point his/her toes, or do an arabesque - we're so proud of you.

 

Bleck!

[mojoween]

One thing that made me giggle was in the Top 18 group performance and in the middle of it Virgil did a - and here my lack of dance terms will be highlighted - spinning jump that did nothing except remind me that Virgil was on Broadway.

[Haleth]

Ok, I finally got to see all the dances and I was underwhelmed.  The robot dance was cute (yeah, Virgil is like another Fikshun) and the Dance to End Racism was lovely.  Everything else was meh to "dear God, is this a joke?"  The quality of the dancing is certainly being dragged down by a handful of subpar contestants.  Hopefully once they are weeded out we'll see better performances.  Unfortunately the format of releasing one from each team means we end up losing capable dancers (Moises) while keeping talentless pretty boys (Asaf).  Because these kids weren't forced to compete in other genres in Vegas we ended up with a mediocre lineup.  Big fail.

[crowceilidh]

Where are my comrades in the tinfoil hats?  Are we so beaten down by the show's manipulations that this doesn't spark some speculation?:

 

 

Three -- Nigel can mis-spell Burim (Burin) in his tweet and therefore all of the West Coast twitterers who have been waiting to save him will vote for the wrong name;

[observer]

Disclosure/disclaimer/caveat:  My hatred for Nigel could replace oil with a renewable resource.  Insufferable, that's what he is, IMO.

 

I may be missing something about the framework of the show, but for Insufferable Nigel to go on and on about how that cha cha was NOT cha cha was, IMO, so meaningless and self serving.  Look at MEEEEEEE, I'm a ballroom expert.  

 

Maybe he thought that the girl, being a ballroom dancer, should have overpowered Jean Mark, explained to him what real cha cha is, and choreographed the routine herself?  As far as I know the contestants don't pick or create the choreography.  If Nigel wanted to call out Jean Mark, he should have directed his comments to Jean Mark.  What a waste of time for him to go on and on and on about his opinion of the choreography.  Pompous ass.  IMO.  He does certainly and obviously worship the sound of his own voice.  IMO.  GAH, I cannot say enough terrible things about this travesty of a person and of a judge.

 

And don't even get me started on what I see as his own unacknowledged attraction to men as evinced by his overt need to mention effeminate male dancers.  Or drop two males doing ballroom from the show.  Or his demeaning treatment of women.  All IMO, of course.

 

Love love love the idea someone mentioned above that the Allstars do the judging.  Would really enjoy hearing some of their takes on contestants.  Especially Mark Kanemura, my all time favorite.

Edited July 29, 2015 by observer

[ToxicUnicorn]

•  
• If you're interested I hunted down their routines:
• Marty Kudelka
• Season 1 with Blake Anthony (who got top billing) on a Hip Hop routine to "Touch" by Omarion
• - Nick & Kamilla's version (well liked)
• - Snow & Allan's version
• Season 7 with Dana Wilson (but he got top billing this time)
• - Jose Ruiz with AS Comfort Fedoke to Try a Little Tenderness
• Season 8
• - Caitlyn Lawson and AS Ivan Koumaev (S2) to Mario's Let Me Love You
•  
• Tovaris Wilson
• Season 1 he did what then was called Lyrical routines:
• - with Melody L and Ryan C (from Quest Crew)
• - for Blake McGrath and Ashle Dawson, and
• - for Blake & Melody
• Season 2 the labeling changes:
• - Musa Cooper & Natalie Fotopolous, contemporary to Closer by Golpele
• - Ryan Rankine & Heidi Groskreutz, Pop to Walk Away but Kelly Clarkson
•  
•  

 

 

Thanks for looking all of these dances up, Anothermi.  I remember being pretty excited at the top of the show when they said Marty Kudelka was on.  I really liked Caitlyn and AS Ivan's routine.  (Of course, it was great to see Ivan doing his specialty.)

 

Looking at Tovaris' body of work on the show, I should have been even more excited about him.  I liked three of his routines.  I can't remember Blake and Ashle's at all - then again, I never liked that pairing (except their samba, which was pretty great).

 

I agree with the poster way upthread who wished Asaf and Burim both could have been sent home.  I will miss Moises, and I was happy to see the praise Travis had for him in his blog.

 

I'm still willing to roll with the format change, however.  I appreciate the difference.  We would have a lot of the same old complaints (so and so should have been saved instead of another, so and so was terrible out of his/her element.)  And I support the mixing up of partners simply because I think the partnerships that click, fan favorite-wise, get too much of an unfair advantage.  (See: Amy and Fik-shun, Jasmine H./Aaron).  

ETA: I also really like the variety of choreographers they are having.  Travis, do you hear me?  Next week is too soon for you to be back.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[Thog]

From the way Travis and Twitch are discussing the "controversial elimination," I almost wonder whether Burim had an attitude problem we haven't been shown. They kept saying how personality, attitude, and a willingness to keep trying hard are so important, which I read as maybe being less about Asaf and more about Burim. I haven't seen one word about Burim's effort or attitude either way. I have to believe Asaf was kept for more than his abs and his drama... he may have been the lesser of two evils. (I have no evidence for this and don't want to slam Burim, but both captain's blogs had that tone to me of trying hard not to say something. Travis mentioned "how people are backstage," and Twitch said that "attitude is huge.")

 

I see Marissa as a great contender for a role on DWTS, and I mean that in a good way. She seems to have the attitude and showmanship that Witney had, and Witney has done well there.

 

I worry for Edson. In Travis's blog it was mentioned that he had a horrible full-body muscle cramp and landed in the hospital for three days out of the rehearsal week. Wasn't he also the one who had that happen in Vegas? It seems a matter of time before he has a permanent injury. If I were the judges I would have kept Moises over him if only out of concern for his health. (Also, I really liked Moises.)

 

Interesting that they put Kate and Neptune together, as they are the two I hadn't noticed at first but am starting to really enjoy. I'm so glad they were saved.

[Anothermi]

I worry for Edson. In Travis's blog it was mentioned that he had a horrible full-body muscle cramp and landed in the hospital for three days out of the rehearsal week. Wasn't he also the one who had that happen in Vegas? It seems a matter of time before he has a permanent injury. If I were the judges I would have kept Moises over him if only out of concern for his health. (Also, I really liked Moises.)

 

I wondered about that too. This seems to be a chronic condition for Edson and I do worry a bit for him going forward because the show gets progressively more rigorous.

 

I also really like Moises, but I realized before the Performance shows started that we would be seeing great members of Team stage leaving before members of Team Street who can't dance outside of their wheelhouse.

 

ETA:

 

Wanted to add - on a completely different note - that I really enjoyed Sean Cheesman's routine (and he is looking fine!). Last night I realized that the opening tableaux for that dance looked like a giant spider (tarantula?) on stage. It was specifically the way the "canes" were being held. Anybody else think so?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Anothermi

[Haleth]

^ Yes, I thought they looked like a spider too.

[Mason]

Wanted to add - on a completely different note - that I really enjoyed Sean Cheesman's routine (and he is looking fine!). Last night I realized that the opening tableaux for that dance looked like a giant spider (tarantula?) on stage. It was specifically the way the "canes" were being held. Anybody else think so?

 

Right off the bat, I need to stress that I am not a dancer. However, I took a couple of Afro Jazz classes at university; it is a real thing, and requires great, loose, often-low-to-the-ground movement and is traditionally done to percussives.

 

Anansi the Spider is an important character in African folklore.

[Mason]

If Nigel wanted to call out Jean Mark, he should have directed his comments to Jean Mark. 

 

J-M is famous for turning himself inside-out not to embarrass a contestant, and will dumb down routines to that effect. I actually respect that, as you see what a contestant is capable of, not what (s)he can't do. Of course, he's never had to work with someone quite this hopeless... Anyway, Nigel knows what J-M's about, and it's certainly not the latter's fault that Asaf couldn't master the basic walking step.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

You Had Me At 'Robot Dancers From Outer Space' / Doesn't matter how good-looking you are: You still have to make an effort, have a good attitude, and dance well. ...Ha ha! I'm kidding. Asaf is sticking around.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Right off the bat, I need to stress that I am not a dancer. However, I took a couple of Afro Jazz classes at university; it is a real thing, and requires great, loose, often-low-to-the-ground movement and is traditionally done to percussives.

Anansi the Spider is an important character in African folklore.

Neat to know, on all counts!

 

I have to believe Asaf was kept for more than his abs and his drama... he may have been the lesser of two evils. (I have no evidence for this and don't want to slam Burim, but both captain's blogs had that tone to me of trying hard not to say something. Travis mentioned "how people are backstage," and Twitch said that "attitude is huge.")

I also am loathe to believe Asaf was only kept for his looks and drama.  Storyline, I can believe.  Lots of "growth arcs" have been orchestrated on this show, and they typically involve the street style dancers: notably, Ivan and Legacy (although I think S1 Artem also counts, to some degree).  But keeping him for personal drama, as in a person who is difficult to work with?  I find that hard to swallow, especially when it affects not only the other contestants who have to work with him, but with the choreographers as well.  I've mentioned before that S1 Blake was full of drama, but he had the skills to back up his stay.

 

Every season, there are always controversial judges' decisions about who they decide to keep.  I guess I have agreed with them more than the average poster.  I liked Jenna and Makenzie, for example.  The only times I really disagreed (off the top of my head) were when they eliminated Nick (the tapper) and kept Witney over Lindsey.

 

ETA:  To get back to Asaf vs. Burim, I just keep reminding myself that we see very little of what goes on.  Although I still suspect geopolitical maneuverings.  That's what you get when you come from Switzerland, Burim!

Edited July 29, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[kechara]

I posted about this in the Media thread but I think it would be good here too.  Spencer Liff was on Afterbuzz. He was very candid about Asaf and other things.  Basically he said that the season will suck as long as there are people dragging others down.  The judges comments are made at dress rehearsal mostly.  Sometimes a piece it made up for 2 dancers and then another one is thrown in kind of last minute...I think that was mostly speculation on his part, especially regarding the Stacey Tookey number.  Worth a listen. Travis was being really tactful about Asaf. Spencer said it was the first time he lost it and yelled at a dancer during that week with Kate, Neptune and Asaf.  He won't be back for the rest of the season and so he laid it all out there.

[shimarella]

Some things about this season are working for me. I am enjoying the judges and choreographers being slightly franker in their assessments of the work. I do like seeing trios as well as duets, and explicitly mixing up the street and stage dancers ( however you feel about they've been categorized) has produced some cool stuff.

My favorite routine was the robot one for all the reasons mentioned.

The Kate/Neptune dance was really beautiful ( and sadly resonant in the light of so many current affairs on my mind)..I'm just still not a fan of overwrought contemporary, which sums up my feels about Team Stage in general I guess. The Stacey Tookey trio had Jaja, who continues to be utterly radiant, so there's that. The "spider" routine was visually striking and its nice when they can do that on this show.

I FFed through the tragic ballroom dance because I can't take it seriously as a category on this show anymore. I'm still #TeamMegz because I love her energy and her look, but that dance didnt do a whole lot for me ( i think a poster upthread nailed it when they said it was a "hype" dance but was too distanced from the audience for the right effect), hopefully next week will be better. 

[dcalley]

I see Marissa as a great contender for a role on DWTS, and I mean that in a good way. She seems to have the attitude and showmanship that Witney had, and Witney has done well there.

Does Marissa currently have ballroom or Latin experience, or do you mean she could be on DWTS like Allison Holker, who learned those styles later?

[phoenix780]

I think I'm at the backlash to the backlash stage with Asaf.  Yeah, he should've gone.  And yeah it was probably pure manipulation, whether for storyline- nobody else has one, really- or just to light up Twitter which somehow ties to ratings (side note: I thoroughly don't understand that, since it seems like all you'd have to do is talk a lot about your own show).  But it's early in the season, there's a ton of fodder, and I think it's probably always like this at this point, at least in the past few seasons. 

 

If we're still talking about him at Top 6...I think that'll be an issue.  Top 18 or wherever we're at...meh.  By this time next year I'll be struggling to remember anyone's names, y'know?

[realdancemom]

I posted about this in the Media thread but I think it would be good here too.  Spencer Liff was on Afterbuzz. He was very candid about Asaf and other things.  Basically he said that the season will suck as long as there are people dragging others down.  The judges comments are made at dress rehearsal mostly.  Sometimes a piece it made up for 2 dancers and then another one is thrown in kind of last minute...I think that was mostly speculation on his part, especially regarding the Stacey Tookey number.  Worth a listen. Travis was being really tactful about Asaf. Spencer said it was the first time he lost it and yelled at a dancer during that week with Kate, Neptune and Asaf.  He won't be back for the rest of the season and so he laid it all out there.

Thanks for this.  I didn't watch AfterBuzz but now I want to hear what Spencer said.  It sounds like he was very honest.  Of course, it's not a surprise to me that Nigel lied/exaggerated when he said that the choreographers, judges, and captains agreed that Asaf should stay.  Travis mentioned in his blog that he didn't know why they picked Asaf.  He said that it's not his abs since Burim also has abs.  I also think Burim is good looking which others have mentioned.  I think Jason has made it clear that he is not a fan.  Paula is the one that seems to stick up for him.

 

I don't think Travis wants him there because it affects his dancers too.  I mentioned the same thing last week.  Choreography has to be dumbed down and the other dancers have to help teach and be patient.  Nigel mentioned that JM created a protective cha-cha instead of club cha-cha.  That means he knows that JM tried to create a routine that would make Asaf not look too bad even though it did look terrible.  The music was definitely too slow for a cha-cha but there is no way that they could have done a fast moving cha-cha.  I did notice Megz helping Asaf during the group street routine which was cool of her.

 

Burim should have stayed but I would have wanted him to leave next week anyway.  The judges knew that both B-Boys couldn't pick up choreography because they struggled with hip-hop choreography in Vegas.  So of course, they're not going to pick up other genres.  I think they just wanted B-Boys in the street group routines and for their solos.  I hope Asaf is the next one to go.

 

As for Moises and Edson, I was o.k. for either one to go.  Moises is definitely a better technician but I agree with the judtges that he can't perform certain roles.  It doesn't help that last week, he was supposed be a two timer and this week, he was supposed to get down and gritty.  Neither one fits his personality.  Edson has no personality when he performs.  I feel the same about Derek but I do think Derek is technically better than Edson.  So I guess he's the Casey of this season.

 

The jazz trio had the ugliest costumes.  All three people are gorgeous and they made them look terrible.  So I couldn't even get into the routine.  I like Neptune/Kate and the robot routine.  Ariana stood out to me in the African jazz routine for the first time.  She was always technically o.k. but she wasn't really a performer until Monday's show.  I also like that they used a lot of different choreographers and I hope that continues.

[innocuouspuff]

Wow to that Spencer Liff podcast, he is brutally honest. He had nothing good to say about Asaf's dancing or attitude/effort, and made it sound like the packages of Asaf constantly complaining are pretty accurate. So while tWitch and Travis were as vague as possible I can't imagine Burim was really worse than the hot mess Spencer is describing.

Which raises the question of why Nigel is trying to convince us that Asaf is sooo appreciated backstage? Maybe he should have practiced this story in advance with the coaches and choreographers.

Spencer definitely also percieves that they're keeping Asaf around for the entertainment of it and no other reason. Which is what it is, welcome to reality television. But what he describes about the resulting dumbing down of routines is kind of sad, for those of us suckers who watch for the dancing not the abs and storylines.

Edited July 29, 2015 by innocuouspuff

[Mertseger]

Anansi the Spider is an important character in African folklore.

 

And traveled via slavery to the Caribbean and the US. Neil Gaiman explored the character in American Gods and Anansi Boys. And the illustrator who did the art work for the most popular 20th century Tarot deck, Pamela Colman Smith, used to tell versions of the stories in Caribbean dialect after her family moved to England. She later collected them in a small illustrated storybook called Annancy Stories that returned to print five years ago.

[Zuleikha]

Which raises the question of why Nigel is trying to convince us that Asaf is sooo appreciated backstage? Maybe he should have practiced this story in advance with the coaches and choreographers.

 

There are two possibilities I can think of. The first is that Nigel is simply lying, and they kept Asaf over Burim because both are bad at picking up choreography, but Asaf gets them buzz (and/or my solo theory is correct and they want to get a solo from him before they boot him). The second is that Asaf is a pain during the 1.5 hours that he's working with the choreographers, but then he gets over his discomfort and is a lot of fun when hanging out with the competitors. 

 

Since I don't watch rehearsal clips or judge comments, I don't mind Asaf being kept at all. In the actual performance dances, he doesn't seem that bad to me. He should go next week or the week after for sure because he's obviously not good in this format (although I do get defensive for him when I seem him characterized as a bad dancer in general... I think he's a great dancer in his own style), but I just don't seem him as being any worse than any of the other non-versatile dancers who have been on the show.

[pamplemousse]

I know I'm in the minority here (probably a minority of one), but I like Asaf.  I have not loved everything he's done, but I said last week that I had gotten the feeling he had had an attitude change, and I think that was shown here tonight.  He didn't gripe or complain about the choreography; he just did the best he could with it and seemed to be working very hard.  No, he was not good overall, but I did think there were places where he was getting it, and while he was not as smooth in the lifts as others have been, neither did I ever feel as though his partner was in danger of being dropped.  And after the performance is over, he seems to take the comments in stride and has thanked his partners for working with him.  He seems like he's probably a nice guy who's in over his head.  Can he improve much more within the confines of the show and the fact that it's not really a 'teaching' place?  I don't know.  Probably not.  But I'm glad he got the chance, and I hope he can get better.  I admit to being surprised that he was saved over Burim, as I thought Burim did a better job in his African jazz routine than Asaf did in the cha cha, but I honestly think over all Asaf has more potential maybe than Burim.  I don't know.  We'll see.

 

(Not that you need to, since it's probably pretty empty...) Save a seat on the minority couch for me! IA so much with everything you said about Asaf.

 

I liked Burim and I think it sucks that he went home since I wouldn't have minded losing Kate or Ariana or, heck, even JJ (although was she in the bottom? probably not), since I find them boring to watch. However, Burim seemed off in that African Jazz and I think that was more related b-boying than a club cha cha (whatever that is) that seemed way way far off like on another planet. And I also agree with someone who said previously that Asaf seemed extra careful not to injure Marissa when it came to the lifts. I think people have just decided to hate on him for the duration. I saw the same thing happen on TWOP in season 2 with Ivan. Yeah, yeah, poor Allison never got the props she deserved because of Ivan blah blah blabbity blah, I think she survived and it was obvious that the judges loved her, the audience not so much otherwise she would've had enough votes to get through to top 6. Asaf has gotten an OTT dickhead villian edit since almost the beginning and while the show may have done so to set up a redemption arc, it's going to majorly backfire because people get so into hating someone that's been set up as a villian who OMG CANNOT DO CHOREOGRAPHY TO SAVE HIS LIFE WORST DANCER EVER GET OUT THE PITCHFORKS (he's not, and there's been plenty worse dances, ballroom dances in particular, on this show in the past, trust) that most will not be able to accept any sort of redemption arc and will be annoyed as hell that the show is even trying it.

 

Anyway, Asaf is bad at ballroom. Big shock. The viewing audience at home doesn't seem to be enamoured of him either, so he'll be gone soon I'm sure. I still think he's great at what he does (better than Burim was), he is trying hard (although yes, I get that a lot of people dgaf about whether someone tries hard or not so YMMV on whether or not this matters), and he's probably a pretty nice guy who is in over his head but has made improvements and has potential.

 

Neptune is fast becoming my favorite on Team Street and maybe on the whole show. Sad to lose Moises, I think he went a bit too early. The bloom has quickly gone off the rose for me when it comes to JJ, JaJa (sometimes I find her emoting and facial expressions when dancing too OTT and unintentionally comical), Hailee (she's a good dancer, but her mugging and always ON persona bugs -- so far, the Brian Friedman jazz was her best dance, she was terrible in the salsa last week and I didn't think she was that great in the robot dance this week, not sharp or robotic enough compared to Virgil), Gaby, and Jim. Marissa and Edson are growing on me.

 

I also agree with whoever said three's a crowd. This new format is really boring to me and I can't get interested or attached to any of these dancers. I like Neptune the most, probably, but tbh I wouldn't care that much if even he went home. It's just a big ball of MEH. I miss the partners format.

 

This franchise is really on its last legs. There used to be a lot of stellar international versions too (SYTYCD Canada, Australia, Scandinavia) that have already been canceled.

[Anothermi]

Wow to that Spencer Liff podcast, he is brutally honest. He had nothing good to say about Asaf's dancing or attitude/effort, and made it sound like the packages of Asaf constantly complaining are pretty accurate. So while tWitch and Travis were as vague as possible I can't imagine Burim was really worse than the hot mess Spencer is describing.

Which raises the question of why Nigel is trying to convince us that Asaf is sooo appreciated backstage? Maybe he should have practiced this story in advance with the coaches and choreographers.

Spencer definitely also percieves that they're keeping Asaf around for the entertainment of it and no other reason. Which is what it is, welcome to reality television. But what he describes about the resulting dumbing down of routines is kind of sad, for those of us suckers who watch for the dancing not the abs and storylines.

 

To be fair, Spencer was speaking as a choreographer, not a show runner. Asaf took all his energy and that meant the other dancers suffered because there was no time to give them the notes on the small but important nuances that would lift their performances from good to wow. (not to mention having to simplify or change the choreo to accommodate him).  He also said he didn't get to give feedback to the judges on his experience with Asaf because Asaf wasn't in the bottom the week he worked with him and he (Spencer) would never volunteer that kind of negative info about a dancer.

So, when Nigel says they spoke to the choreographers, he means the ones on the current episode (in this case for Asaf - Jean Marc, Marty Kudelka & whoever did the Top 18 routine). We don't know what they said about Asaf. I'm pretty sure Jean Marc would have been kind. In the interview that I posted in the media thread, Asaf and Marissa said Jean Marc spent extra time with them (when they rehearsed in hallways etc after the studio time was over) trying to make them look good, so I'd expect he'd talk about hard work and dedication.

 

A couple of other things the Buzzfeed broadcast opened my eyes to were:

1 - The new format was required by Fox execs in order for the show to be renewed. There's a lot about the new format that smacks of copying other successful shows. The "mentors" ( fromThe Voice), the "Teams" (from ABDC). I'm surprised Nigel & his execs were able to salvage as much as they did from the original concept.

2 - The choreographers get screwed as much as the contestants - at least in this format (not knowing how many dancers you're going to get until after the show airs, the surviving contestants are split into groups and choose their dance styles. Rehearsals start the next day.)

[Watt]

Bingo!

I guess what you are trying to say is Virgil reminds you of Fikshun.

Words are hard.

[innocuouspuff]

I guess I should preface that I don't comment from Asaf hate, I'm just curious to try to piece together what's going on.

Spencer can only speak to his experience, but what he describes is not only his own frustration but that of Chris Scott in the team street piece, and the other dancers who were trying to help Asaf succeed in their piece, Kate and Neptune. So it's certainly possible that in the space of a week Asaf became a much less infuriating dancer to everyone around him, or that Spencer was projecting his feelings onto everyone... but I don't know that I consider it significantly more likely that Nigel massaging the truth on twitter, lol.

To be a fly on the wall, I guess. Spencer's comments about hiding Asaf on the edge of the stage or with dark costuming were also interesting since we'd been wondering about that kind of thing in the threads.

Edited July 29, 2015 by innocuouspuff

[Terrafamilia]

Asaf was better at projecting an attitude in the cha-cha but as far as the actual dancing, he was way too tentative and stiff. Six months of training could do wonders but not a week. Keeping him around for ratings/drama isn't doing him any favors.

 

Gabby was reminding me of Emma Watson and Hailee of Lady Gaga. On the down side Edson, however nice-looking, had the sex appeal of Bobby Burgess (I'm really dating myself).

I feel that I came across Moises and Jim in a dark alley in a bad part of town - I could take 'em.

 

Neptune and Kate were the stand-outs for me.

 

ETA: slight clarification of my thought.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Terrafamilia

[Haleth]

I feel that I came across Moises and Jim in a dark alley in a bad part of town - I could take em.

But not Megz.

[Terrafamilia]

But not Megz.

 

You got that right. :-)

[traboule]

If you're interested I hunted down their routines:

Marty Kudelka

Season 1 with Blake Anthony (who got top billing) on a Hip Hop routine to "Touch" by Omarion

- Nick & Kamilla's version (well liked)

- Snow & Allan's version

Season 7 with Dana Wilson (but he got top billing this time)

- Jose Ruiz with AS Comfort Fedoke to Try a Little Tenderness

Season 8

- Caitlyn Lawson and AS Ivan Koumaev (S2) to Mario's Let Me Love You

 

Season 10

- Jasmin Harper & Aaron Turner, contemporary to The District Sleeps Alone Tonight by Birdy (I couldn't find this one. It's premise was based on "The Giving Tree" story and although I remember loving it, it got mixed reviews.)

eta: found it!!!

 

Ooh, thank you, thank you! I clicked through and watched Marty's videos just now and will have to check out the others soon. I liked the later two of those four Marty videos. I only started regularly watching the show around Season 9. I've gone back and reconstructed watching Seasons 3 and 4 through youtube videos, but I still have a gap of SYTYCD knowledge for the rest of the seasons. I do remember the Giving Tree performance though I don't think I've rewatched it since that season. Wow, that's beautiful and I can definitely see the commonality in the choreography between that performance and Kate and Neptune's piece.

[traboule]

So if Team Stage has beaten Team Street the last two weeks, what does that mean exactly. That more people are voting for the stage dancers, so mathematically we don't even really have a true picture of the bottom six?

 

Wasn't that also true when one guy and one girl were getting eliminated from the show each night?

[ToxicUnicorn]

^ Yes,

 

JaJa (sometimes I find her emoting and facial expressions when dancing too OTT and unintentionally comical), Hailee (she's a good dancer, but her mugging and always ON persona bugs

I agree with both of these impressions.  I think I would like JaJa more if she were less dramatic.  To rephrase everything I learned about Broadway from the old TwoP Smash threads... Jaja and Hailee's performances are suited for live theater, but this is a tv show.

[Zuleikha]

But not Megz.

 

She really was everything in that trio. I literally couldn't take my eyes off her. I kept trying to pay more attention to Jim and Moises, but she was in her element and it showed. Also, she was really funny in her DancePlug interview. I think I love her now. 

 

Jaja and Hailee's performances are suited for live theater, but this is a tv show.

I have been a theater performer, so perhaps this affects me but Jaja and Hailee are two of my favorites. I thought they were both excellent this week out of their genres. 

[shimarella]

I'll take Megz. 

 

I'll show myself out now. #cougar

[luvthepros]

 

 

I may be missing something about the framework of the show, but for Insufferable Nigel to go on and on about how that cha cha was NOT cha cha was, IMO, so meaningless and self serving.  Look at MEEEEEEE, I'm a ballroom expert.  

 

I'm no ballroom expert but, even I, was baffled as to where the Cha Cha elements were. I saw no Cha Cha and I'm very appreciative of Nigel to point that out. Jean Marc failed miserably with that choreography. Then again, maybe it wasn't Jean Marc's failure to choreograph a true Cha Cha but it was Asaf who could not execute the Cha Cha choreography. What ever it was.....the dance was just awful and truly lacking Cha Cha elements and feel. Nigel was spot on to say something. Nigel may not be a ballroom expert but he certainly can identify a Cha Cha when he sees one. In this case, there was no Cha Cha to identify.

 

I'm ready with my armor but.......I REALLY like Nigel. I thank him for bringing us this dance show and I appreciate his passion for dance. I get him where others don't. 

Edited July 30, 2015 by luvthepros