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S01.E13: Slumber Party

Primetimer

By Primetimer
in Beverly Hills, 90210

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StatMom

StatMom

I completely misremembered Kelly's story as more of a date rape kind of thing. I think I merged this story in my mind with the one from the teen rap hotline Doogie-girl one. The fact that Kelly was crying by the end didn't help.

 

Oh yeah, and Amanda, you're SUCH A BITCH! I know there'd be no story without her, but they should have totally kicked her out. Oh well, they're all gonna be besties from here on out, so all's well.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

At last! I've been waiting for your podcast on this episode! Whoo!

 

I haven't seen this episode in years, but I remember loathing Amanda and her bitchtastic attitude. Plus, she made Kelly cry. Not cool. (And Tara's right -- Jennie Garth sold that scene for me. And like Sarah said, it put Kelly in a new light. Before this episode, she was pretty much a stereotype, the selfish, spoiled, popular, rich bitchy girl. Things changed after this.) Still... I kind of love that they put Andrea on the hot seat about her crush on Brandon. It felt like 'About time someone said it.' 

 

I totally forgot that B plot and that Steve started crying. He was not my favorite character but I actually felt bad for him... until he paid for her ticket and they both let the girls off the hook. Bleh. Really, Steve? Really, Brandon?  *eyeroll

 

On a side note, I've always wanted to try Donna's popcorn-in-ice-cream treat, but I never remember to do it. I really should make that happen. I'm guessing it's got that awesome salty-sweet soft-with-a-crunch flavor. 


 

Do they still have Mony Mony on the soundtrack or did they strip that too?

 

Oh my gosh... I totally forgot about that. All you had to say was "Mony Mony" and I could hear that song and picture the entire dance scene, with them pulling Carol into the circle and all of them singing along ("YEAH!") and dancing all crazy while crabby Amanda stands at the door. Amazing what the original song can do to put you right back into when you first saw a show. It's why I can't watch reruns of 21 Jump Street's pilot episode these days -- it needs that Steve Winwood soundtrack; anything else is totally lame.

Edited by sinkwriter
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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

I startd to see Kelly as more than the 'spoiled rich girl' after Perfect Mom but whatever Jennie Garth really did bring it in this episode and yeah the story was mello-dramatic but then again, at 16/17, everythings pretty mello-dramatic and wasn't that always the issue when after your first time the guy never talks to you being a thing? I recall other shows using that trope as well as to not rush things.

Poor Steve. Also Brandon's saying his tie is from Canada may be added to the things said on 90210 that I will have to try to work into my everyday life- with Dylan's mad, bad and dangerous to know and his love of cumin.

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StatMom

StatMom

haha, oh my, no. It is not "Mony Mony." But they still show the actors singing along, with their mouths not even kind of matching the sub music.

And what else is so stupid about the sound in most of that scene: you don't hear anything but the music and a couple random, single claps here and there, and a "woo" when Cindy brings in the food. It sounds ridiculously fake. This was on the Amazon streaming version. Do the DVDs have the original music/sound? 

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Earmuffs Mom

Earmuffs Mom

One of my all-time favorite episodes too.  So much unintentional irony/foreshadowing in this episode:

 

1.  Kelly berates Amanda for taking diet pills and how they make you a raging bitch.  Cue Kelly's diet pill addiction in season 3.

2.  Kelly says she will never make a move on Dylan.  Cue Summer of Deception at the end of Season 2/Start of Season 3.

3.  Brenda talks about how her friendship is never the same with her friend from Minnesota after she tried to steal her boyfriend.  Cue Kelly-Brenda bitchfest all throughout Seasons 3-4. 

3.  Donna laments having no problems to discuss.  Cue Donna Martin Graduates and many Donna "damsel in distress" moments from college and onward.

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STOPSHOUTING

STOPSHOUTING

To be clear, we all agree that the the non-bra wearing car thief is basically a clone of Kelly Taylor, right?

Also, has Tori Spelling had more than a single line in any of the episodes so far? On the show her father, you know, created?

Given what we know of her acting prowess today, how terrible must she have been that she's in the opening credits and has, so far, had less to say and do than any of the guest students of the week? I'm pretty sure the slow removal of her sunglasses in the intro is demonstrating the totality of her range at this point.

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Pogojoco

Pogojoco

I totally recognized the blonde car thief as the chick who Kirk Cameron got fired. I thought in this episode she looked a lot like Kelly (alterna Kelly) and that's why Steve was so into her.

About Cameron's stupid evangelical movies, she wrote this on her MySpace:

"He thinks if I read science books that I'm going to hell. rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints ... the sinners are much more fun. And a lot more interesting than some book-burner who is still having growing pains. I am at peace with God. Kirk thinks people like me are going to Hell, if I do then at least I'll go well informed and well read."

I love Brenda in this episode- she goes from zero to bitch in a split second. That combined with Kelly promising to never go after Dylan was a good precursor to the ultimate Brenda line:

"I hate you both. Never talk to me again!"

I agree Garth was great in the Ross Webber scene and that was peak bitchiness by Amanda. Kelly tells her cute, slightly embarassing and goofy time with Steve (which is clearly the one she wants to count as her first) and Amanda bitches at her to tell the one, which sounds a little like date rape, where she is humiliated and felt gross about.

It's also nice that Amanda's eating disorder/pill addiction is solved in about 30 seconds, another nice precedent set in how this show deals with drug addiction.

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Lindsey

Lindsey

It's not just the number of pills, it's the lack of proper containment. Who just has loose pills floating around in her purse? They'd be all linty and gross. Apparently her diet pill addiction prevented her from thinking clearly enough to get a bottle or one of those little boxes they sell at the pharmacy. That was very upsetting.

Not a crackpot.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

I thought there was a bottle but it burst open from within her purse when Donna accidentally yanked the purse to the ground. I might be remembering incorrectly but isn't there a pill bottle in one of the gifs that Tara and Sarah made? 

 

Not necessarily logical, it's not like Donna pulled that hard, but I guess they needed a reason for Amanda to be bitchy.

 

Edit: Hmm... I rewatched the gif, and I don't see a bottle. But I have to assume they were in some sort of container that popped open. It would be pretty ridiculous for her to carry them around loosely.

Edited by sinkwriter
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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

I always assume they were in a bottle because who carries pills in their purse without them being contained in some way? Whatever. It doesn't matter, she doesn't care anyway now that she's got Oreos! 

 

Also I didn't say this earlier but again this episode did not make me hate Brandon. I feel like there are reasons for this, one being that this episode he was strictly B-plot and I'm thinking "THIS IS WHERE BRANDON'S STORIES SHOULD STAY, ALWAYS!" and last episode was the teen mom story and seriously I can't really give anything Brandon did issues because that's not something that's quite easy to handle when you're a first time junior in high school and your date is all, "I have a baby! And Hi, I've known you for two seconds can you watch him?" Anyways..

 

I didn't watch BH when it aired because I was  a kid but I did see the reruns so I remember this episode but yeah, I always forget that somehow Andrea was invited to the sleepover and I always feel there was a scene where Brandon made Brenda invite Andrea to it but clearly I made that up and Andrea got to go just because. I'm glad our lovely podcasters pointed this out as well, because for some reason I saw what episode was on and I was like, "YES THE SLEEPOVER!"  and I was like "oh yeah and Brandon makes Brenda invite Andrea",.. which doesn't happen. 

CarobCake

CarobCake

I thought Kelly's story was rape... she said he kept saying "I know you want to" and she said "she did, but not like this" which implies to me she said no to "like this" and he went ahead anyway. The problem was not that she regretted having sex on the ground. But that she said no to having sex on the ground and had it without wanting to... sex without wanting to regardless of reason = rape.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

I thought Kelly's story was rape... she said he kept saying "I know you want to" and she said "she did, but not like this" which implies to me she said no to "like this" and he went ahead anyway.

 

I didn't get the impression we were supposed to take away that Kelly had been raped.  I didn't even get the idea that Kelly thought she had been raped.  I thought it was more that we were supposed to see that for all of Kelly's experience, she was still vulnerable. 

lottiedottie

lottiedottie

I think it did happen and that scene was edited out for syndication.  Along with my beloved Mony Mony.

The only reason I think that didn't happen is because of the scene with Brandon and Andrea where he asks her what she is doing and she tells him she's going to a women's conference or something like that, but then says it's at his house. I would think he would have known what she was doing that night if he had told Brenda to invite Andrea, being that he was kicked out of the house for the (not a) slumber party.

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Petunia13

Petunia13

I thought Kelly's story was rape... she said he kept saying "I know you want to" and she said "she did, but not like this" which implies to me she said no to "like this" and he went ahead anyway. The problem was not that she regretted having sex on the ground. But that she said no to having sex on the ground and had it without wanting to... sex without wanting to regardless of reason = rape.

That was and is how I always interpreted it too.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

I always saw his repeated (disgusting) comments of "You know you want it" as a gigantic disrespect for Kelly and her wishes, instead pushing her into something she didn't want. She might not want to see it that way, but it was rape. Which is probably a big reason why deep down she tried to pretend it didn't happen, and that her "first time" was with Steve instead.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

I always go back and forth on the rape issue with it. Because of me seeing in reruns, I always wondered if this show was trying to painterly veiled it was rape and that's why I've never known if that's what the show was trying to do or if it they were trying to leave it open-ended because of network issues, it was the 90s. In today's day, I would for sure think this story was rape. 

 

Also I'm wondering if (and forgive me, this may make no sense) maybe Kelly herself didn't want to say it was rape. Perhaps I'm going too deep into this show but I think at a young age when the circumstances are grey and not black or white, it can be hard for someone who was Kelly's age to admit what it was. Once you do, there's no going back and I don't think she could have been able to form this opinion on what happened on her. It's a lot. As adults, it's easier to make this determination but I think at a young age, if things aren't firmly set in one camp or the other, you can't automatically declare what happened. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

I always go back and forth on the rape issue with it. Because of me seeing in reruns, I always wondered if this show was trying to painterly veiled it was rape and that's why I've never known if that's what the show was trying to do or if it they were trying to leave it open-ended because of network issues, it was the 90s. In today's day, I would for sure think this story was rape.

 

I look at the end of the story.  Kelly becomes deeply upset because Ross had the few minutes of sex with her, and totally ignored her after that.  That doesn't play to me like Kelly was raped, so much as Kelly realizes she was a fool, i.e. she lost her virginity to someone who couldn't care less about her. 

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

Yeah, I'm more on the side of the fence where she was okay with the actual act but  wishes the guy wasn't a jerk to her afterwards and treated her the way he did. But I can see how people can be confused by the story. 

 

In another fun thing I was thinking about since we discussed how Amanda must have kept her pills in a terrible container for them to all fall so easy, I wonder if she now keeps oreos  in a terribly contained container in her purse now. Or maybe m&ms.

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desertflower

desertflower

Also, I know this has probably been discussed but how did they not get licensing for ANY of the music?

I think they did get it for some...I watch the show on Pop sometimes (used to be TV Guide Network) and while a lot of the music is replaced, some of it is still original.

I figured they invited Andrea since they bonded with her a little since the fashion show. Maybe they originally had a scene explaining it but it got cut.

I always interpreted Kelly's story as she wanted to because she liked the guy and wanted him to like her, but she very quickly regretted it (like probably as it was happening) because it wasn't how she pictured it. Then of course when he never talked to her again she felt stupid for letting it happen. Something similar happened to me when I was a teenager so I can relate. I consented, but regretted it soon after.

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FozzyBear

FozzyBear

I interpreted Kelly's story as she "wanted it" in the sense she wanted to be his girlfriend and was ok with having sex with him in a theoretical sense, but tried to back out and stop once it was actually happening, hence the "come on, you know you want it." So I interpreted it as date rape because I thought we were supposed to think she did say no at some point.

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rab01

rab01

I haven't rewatched this episode but I totally thought at the time that Kelly was raped. It aired during the period when people were still having to explain that date rape was rape, instead of some lesser assault. (I went to college maybe a year after this aired - I think - and "Take Back the Night" marches were just starting to sweep campuses.)  I can't think of examples anymore but it struck me at the time as the same structure used by other shows for date rape episodes.

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Petunia13

Petunia13

(edited)

Shannon Doherty/Brenda was absolutely excellent this episode especially when she spit "Why don't you just shut up?" at Amanda with such venom and fury. I mean it was seething hate.

I also liked Amanda she was cool and kinda funny. That whole busting Andrea out about her name "Ahhhhhhhhndrea" and getting an explanation of the pretense was good and she, of course, put Andrea's crush on Brandon on front street. I think not because she disliked Ahhhhndrea but she was sick of her acting so above the fray when she's flawed and can be "la di dah" and superficial in her own ways.

Edited by Petunia13
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