Tara Ariano July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Mariana wants to be baptized so that she can be a godmother to her half sister, Isabella, but Stef and Lena are reluctant to give her permission. Meanwhile, Callie must deal with the repercussions of her behavior at her birthday party. Link to comment
calliope1975 July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 That last minute - are you kidding me? Callie's going to be 35 years old before she gets adopted. I still find Brandon insufferable. I feel kinda bad about it, but it is what it is. 3 Link to comment
ShortyMac July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 I'm so mad right now. I hated this episode. F Brallie. Callie is either never getting adopted or it will be during the series finale. Link to comment
FrumiusManxome July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad this whole investigation is happening. I want Callie to get adopted by the Fosters, of course, but it's about time the inappropriateness of Brallie is fully addressed. Maybe now we can be done with it and Callie will get adopted. I'm so over their will they won't they BS in regards to them. I hope this is finally ABC Family letting that storyline go. Good riddance. On another note, I totally see myself being Stef in the future with religion. It's really not my thing for her exact reasons. I had the same recoil she had when Mariana said she wanted to be baptized. AJ is such a sweetheart. I love how he seriouly just wants a family. Even thouh Mike is probably the worst candidate for foster father considering his history it would be really good for AJ to have that stability. It's obvious that despite him wanting his brother he's really getting into this family. It's cute. Call me, Victor, but I don't think Ana just has post partum depression. I don't think she's using, but I get this vibe that she is going to leave Isabella and bolt. Some people just aren't meant to be parents and I really think Ana is one of those people. 1 Link to comment
stopeslite July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 GOOD LORD ALREADY. Why would there be more home visits and investigations?! They were ready to sign the adoption papers before Robert came into the picture! I can't imagine there is anything left to do at this point. But no, let's stretch it out EVEN MORE. Ugh. I hate everything having to do with that. Where was Jude? He's the only teenager young enough to be subject to hourly work limits on set? I was just nope about this entire episode. They were all acting stupid, all of the circumstances were stupid, everyone was stupid. And Brandon's stupid piece was just arpeggios. Every piece of Brandon's is just arpeggios. They could at least buy some nice pieces to say are his. Stupid Brandon. 2 Link to comment
smrou July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Ugh, won't this stupid Callie/Brandon nonsense ever just finally be over? I just have no patience for it. I really thought it was behind us now, but no, now next week's going to rehash the whole thing presumably. Maybe now we can be done with it and Callie will get adopted. I'm so over their will they won't they BS in regards to them. I hope this is finally ABC Family letting that storyline go. Good riddance. Lord, I hope so. I still find Brandon insufferable. I feel kinda bad about it, but it is what it is. Yeah, I feel like I should have been on his side of the conflict in this one--and I mean, I was in that I do think the other guy was a total snake to copy his idea--but I just can't bring myself to actually care about him. So he got screwed over once again at his music camp thing. Whatever. Let's move on to any other character, please. Anyway, apart from the Brandon business during the episode and the bit that popped up again at the very end, I liked this for the most part. I thought the religion storyline was interesting and once again I found myself really liking Mariana. She stood up for herself and she knows her own mind enough to realize in the end that she couldn't go through with baptism. I also liked AJ's brother and think it makes a certain amount of sense that he doesn't trust that people really are trying to help AJ and want to have him around. I'm wondering if we're going to see more therapy with Stef and Lena. I assumed it would be an ongoing thing but when Lena had her breakdown at the end she said something like, "I know I should have brought this up in therapy but..." which made it sound like something in the past. But maybe she just meant she should have brought it up already and they're still going. 1 Link to comment
possibilities July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Brandon irks me, too. But when he was lacking confidence and asked his "friends" for their advice, I realized he really doesn't have any friends, and we've never seen him to. Everyone else has had at least one person they seem socially connected to. What's up with that? Is he too mopey for even other teens? I agreed that it was rotten to steal his idea, and a good friend wouldn't do it. But it was also true that the advice he got before that was that it was great, had never been done there, and was risky but awesome, and B should trust his gut. It wasn't bad advice, and even if it was wrong to copy the idea, it was also Brandon's choice not to do it-- and he showcased first, so it's not like other dude stole his option to go ahead. I hope Brandon finally starts having some leadership confidence now, and stops moping and being led around. If the Brandon-Callie thing can finally be ended, I'm all for it. Otherwise, this new investigation is just too much and makes me want to smash the TV. Ty didn't say why he disappeared, did he? I feel like he owes an explanation to AJ, and the show owes one to us. Did Lena and Stef and Mike lie to the kids about the license expiring, and why AJ was being moved? Mariana is as usual, my hero. It's gotten to the point where I am starting to find it stretches credibility, but I'm not sure I want them to stop making her awesome, so I'm living with that contradiction. They said Jude was at Connor's house, but he can't have been there the whole time. I know Connor's dad is trying to loosen up, but I don't see him hosting any sleepovers. Is this the first time in the history of TV that the lesbians got to be the ones who represented family values? I wonder what happens with Ana and Bella long term. Also, why is Ana on pain killers? I had a feeling the car was not legal. They never registered it, either. I don't know about California, but it's not enough to have a title, you have to also register it and pay sales tax in every state I've lived in. Oops. Are they going to send Callie to live with Robert? Or-- ha ha-- Rita? If Callie ends up at Rita's while AJ winds up with Stef and Lena, that would be sitcommy as hell. Also, what happens when Lena and Stef find out about the drop in center? I do like that the show is not letting things go; they take a while to blow up, but they aren't actually blowing over. Even though some of these plots are annoying, it's kind of better that the show deals with things rather than glossing over. And they're teenagers. If they were all as role modely as Mariana, it would be enough to give us all diabetes. How many episodes do we get this run? Is it still only 10 at a time? I don't want any stupid cliffhangers about whether Callie will be adopted, so let's get going, show! 1 Link to comment
DCCFanInKy July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 (edited) next week's going to rehash the whole thing presumably. Didn't the previews say "in two weeks" or was I hearing things? By that time I was only about half watching anyway. Edited July 21, 2015 by lscobee Link to comment
ShortyMac July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Didn't the previews say "in two weeks" or was I hearing things? By that time I was only about half watching anyway. Yes, they did. Two weeks. Link to comment
joanne3482 July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Did Lena and Stef and Mike lie to the kids about the license expiring, and why AJ was being moved? Yes they did. I presumed it was to cover why AJ was being moved out and to protect Callie's privacy. I wonder what happens with Ana and Bella long term. Also, why is Ana on pain killers? Residual pain from the car accident I would suspect. She was in that big back brace. I kind of like they are going post partum depression with Ana. It does happen and there are a lot of stories out there of women who just don't feel like they are bonded with their baby. And because it is kept so hush hush they feel even worse about it and don't talk to anyone. I also found it interesting that the kids are as old as they are and Lena and Stef have never talked about their actual religious upbringing. They seemed to talk in the abstract about it but nothing concrete. I'm a bit surprised it didn't come up before now. I know as a kid I attended church services with various friends throughout my childhood. Link to comment
ShortyMac July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Now, that I've cooled down after that frustrating ending, here are my thoughts: I did not like the whole baptism thing because it felt clunky to me and like it was just thrown in there. I'm sad for Mariana that her birth grandfather rejected her like that. I think it's awesome that she stood up for her own beliefs and family. The PPD for Ana did not really bother me; I liked Stef/Lena's convo at the end. I'm glad that the Callie/AJ/car thing/getting arrested was not dragged out. 2 Link to comment
izabella July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 It seems like this was the episode Callie's chickens came home to roost. I wish I believed she really heard Rita when she was talking about making the same mistakes over and over. But I think Callie was just humoring her to shut down the lecture. 2 Link to comment
Perfect Xero July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Granted, this is the same show where it somehow took 6 years and an impending adoption for anyone in the foster care system to think to actually check Callie's original birth certificate, but it doesn't make any sense that they'd have got up to the point of the first adoption, then went through a trial with the Quinns over custody and none of the police records about Brandon and Callie would have come to light during all of that, but now the case worker stumbles on it at the last minute the second time around. Is the implication that AJ tipped them off about Brandon and Callie out of some petty fit of jealousy over being rejected? That's the only way that makes even a little sense to me, that it would stay hidden through everything else, but as soon as Callie tells AJ about her and Brandon (and he's sent to stay with Rita, where he might be able to access to whatever files she has on Callie) that it's suddenly brought up as an issue. Brandon irks me, too. But when he was lacking confidence and asked his "friends" for their advice, I realized he really doesn't have any friends, and we've never seen him to. Everyone else has had at least one person they seem socially connected to. What's up with that? Is he too mopey for even other teens? Probably. He's had his love interests Talya and Lu, but that's about it. Though I'd say that Jesus doesn't really have anyone socially who wasn't also a love interest either. For whatever reasons the show has focused a fair bit on Callie and Marianna's friendships with other girls, but the teen boys on the show don't really have anyone in their life who isn't a love interest or a family member. I'm not sure if they're trying to say anything with that, but it's kind of odd. If the Brandon-Callie thing can finally be ended, I'm all for it. Otherwise, this new investigation is just too much and makes me want to smash the TV. I feel like they're doing this in the wrong order. If they wanted to bring up Brandon/Callie as a road block to adoption (which they should have at some point, considering the restraining order and that Brandon told the police that he framed Callie for a crime) it should have happened well before all the Quinn stuff. The storyline with Robert being revealed as the biological father should have happened after the adoption was finalized, not before.As to sending her to live with Robert, now that he's signed away his parental relationship with Callie he's basically no different than any random person in the eyes of the state, so she can't go live with him unless he has a foster license. 1 Link to comment
Gulftastic July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Hooray for the return of true Mariana (stolen car buying aside). Link to comment
Eeksquire July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 I kind of feel like nothing much happened in this episode, despite the drama. In fact, I had a hard time paying attention to it, which is unusual for this show. It did kill me when Lena said she hated the tree. That came way out of left field for me, and seemed so unlike her, that I had to really search the long term memory for what she might be talking about until I realized it was the tree they planted for Frankie. I guess AJ getting arrested doesn't count as his "one chance" with Rita because he hadn't moved in with her yet? Also: hello, convenient plot point, does she not still run Girls United in the house that Robert bought them? If she's there most of the day (even if not the actual house mother that lives there 24/7), doesn't her counseling take place when the girls aren't in school (i.e., the same time when AJ might require some supervision)? I've said it before and I'll say it again: I really could have done without the introduction of AJ - I like the actor, but we already have the model 'foster kid who can't believe anyone has their best interests at heart' with Callie and nothing about the storyline interests me, especially since his brother turned out to be SUCH a stereotypical "don't trust them, they're not your real parents, they don't want you because you're black" angry teenager trope, which is especially disappointing since this show usually does better than that. Why not have him be a good kid and want to take custody of AJ? Then Callie and AJ could have their One Twu Wuv or whatever the hell without going back to the well of dating a foster sibling. 3 Link to comment
grannygeek July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 That last minute - are you kidding me? Callie's going to be 35 years old before she gets adopted. My thoughts exactly last night as I restrained myself from throwing something at the TV or WTFing out loud. So, has Robert got rid of or stored the car yet he bought for Callie, that she couldn't accept because of the other kids, preferring instead to waste money on a stolen car that she couldn't drive because no money for insurance, that Robert made as part of the gift car? Contrived much? This show does some things so well, like the religion debate, but can't seem to refrain from going back to the same stinking piles of crap and kicking them over again and again. 4 Link to comment
tennisgurl July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 How can this show be so good, at so many things, and still keep dragging this stupid Brandon/Callie thing out? HOW!?!?! 3 Link to comment
ShadowFacts July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 While it was kind of absurd to reduce the whole religious upbringing question to part of a one-hour episode, I couldn't help but like how Mariana's thinking was crystallized the moment the priest said what he did about welcoming her mothers, the sinners. Thank you, Father, for making it easier for Mariana. 4 Link to comment
Primetimer July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Two 'yay's can't overcome three 'ugh's on an up-and-down ep of The Fosters. Read the story Link to comment
rue721 July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 While it was kind of absurd to reduce the whole religious upbringing question to part of a one-hour episode, I couldn't help but like how Mariana's thinking was crystallized the moment the priest said what he did about welcoming her mothers, the sinners. Thank you, Father, for making it easier for Mariana. I thought it was strange that Mariana was so taken aback by that, actually. Isn't *everyone* considered a sinner in Catholicism? I thought that was the whole point of baptism, confession, communion, etc etc etc -- that people are sinners by nature, and have to purify themselves and to be forgiven in order to be with God? Not making a value judgment about that, I just thought it was weird that Lena would talk about the beauty of Catholicism's concept of/emphasis on forgiveness and that that would be a big turning point within the episode, yet to have everyone somehow forget that the reason forgiveness/repentance is so important is that it's assumed that *everyone* needs to repent and to be forgiven because everyone is a sinner. I have to admit, though, I might just be cranky because I disliked how the show handled religion in this episode. It seemed like they were equating religion with Christianity, which bothered me. It bothered me how both Mariana and the Gutierrezes said something about wondering if the Adams-Fosters family don't believe in God since they don't go to church. Lots of people believe in God but don't go to church, because they're not *Christian* specifically. Also, imo it seemed like the show stuffed in that conversation with Mariana asking Stef and Lena why they didn't go to church just so they could show Stef and Lena reassuring Mariana that they weren't atheists or religious in some non-Christian tradition (or to reassure Mariana/the audience that Stef and Lena weren't really anything other than fuzzily and non-threateningly agnostic). Idk, it all seemed very Christian-centric to me. Ty didn't say why he disappeared, did he? I feel like he owes an explanation to AJ, and the show owes one to us. I agree. I kept waiting for more of an explanation of what was going on with Ty, but none really came. Also, where is he living, and working, and who's he hanging around (SO, friends, family...?)? I actually liked that he was suspicious about everything going on in AJ's life, though, because it *is* strange that AJ is suddenly involved with this gigantic and complicated family. I liked that Ty kept guessing at their motives for ingratiating themselves with AJ, and even though from the POV of the audience it's clear that he's wrong, his guesses were actually pretty reasonable. Also, I think this is different than what was going on with Callie in the earlier seasons of the show, because AJ's the younger sibling. AJ is more in Jude's role (and Ty is more in Callie's). One of my favorite scenes in this episode was when Ty went off on all the reasons that AJ couldn't trust Mike or the Adams-Fosters, and you could see AJ turning it over in his mind. I really wonder what AJ was thinking. He obviously loves and trusts Ty, but he also didn't have blind faith in what Ty was saying, since then he started asking Mike and Callie about the issues that Ty brought up. I wonder if he's worried for Ty. I would be, because it seems like Ty is really stressed and looking for the worst in people or situations right now. I hope that we learn more about Ty and AJ's relationship altogether. But speaking of tertiary characters that I wish we got to see more of and learn more about -- I really miss Kiara and Daphne. And remember when Wyatt was staying with Daphne for a while? I missed him in this episode, too. Kiara, Daphne (& Tasha), and Wyatt as roommates would be such a fun spinoff show imo. I still find Brandon insufferable. I feel kinda bad about it, but it is what it is. Honestly, what's going on with Brandon? At the end of the episode, when the case worker said there was an issue with Callie's foster brother, I KNEW it was going to be an issue with Brandon. But tbh, Brallie is so far off my radar that that's not the obstacle that popped into my head. Brandon just seems like such a mess lately. He's kind of unstable. HOW MANY TIMES has Brandon gone on a paranoid rant about or to someone at Idyllwild at this point? There was the whole saga of whether he was going to get in, and then whether he would go, and then why he was there, and then the fiasco of partnering with Kat, and the accusations toward Kat and that other composer that they had gotten him drunk in order to manipulate/screw with him, and now he's in the woods freaking out at the composer and Jinn, AGAIN. And in between his Idyllwild-related freakouts, there was the recent AJ/Mike-related freakout. Idk, something's up with that kid. I don't actually dislike him. But it seemed to me that Ana and Brandon's stories were kind of running parallel in this episode. They both seemed really overwhelmed and squirrel-y. So that kind of ratcheted up my worry about what's wrong with Brandon atm. I really wish that he would move in with Mike and AJ. I'd be a lot more interested in Brandon, AJ, and Mike's relationships with each other, than any of their relationships with Callie. (Some of that might be because I find Callie really boring though, lol). 3 Link to comment
Eeksquire July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 I really wish that he would move in with Mike and AJ. I'd be a lot more interested in Brandon, AJ, and Mike's relationships with each other, than any of their relationships with Callie. Wow, that's a thought! I hadn't considered that, but it would certainly be an interesting move. Of course, after all the drama the last time Brandon tried to move in with Mike, I don't think it's even an option, but still: the actor who plays AJ would certainly be a better partner than Jesus ever was. (Speaking of: have we seen the new Jesus? Or only heard the A-F side of a phone conversation?) Link to comment
ShadowFacts July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 ShadowFacts, on 21 Jul 2015 - 09:39 AM, said: While it was kind of absurd to reduce the whole religious upbringing question to part of a one-hour episode, I couldn't help but like how Mariana's thinking was crystallized the moment the priest said what he did about welcoming her mothers, the sinners. Thank you, Father, for making it easier for Mariana. I thought it was strange that Mariana was so taken aback by that, actually. Isn't *everyone* considered a sinner in Catholicism? I thought that was the whole point of baptism, confession, communion, etc etc etc -- that people are sinners by nature, and have to purify themselves and to be forgiven in order to be with God? Not making a value judgment about that, I just thought it was weird that Lena would talk about the beauty of Catholicism's concept of/emphasis on forgiveness and that that would be a big turning point within the episode, yet to have everyone somehow forget that the reason forgiveness/repentance is so important is that it's assumed that *everyone* needs to repent and to be forgiven because everyone is a sinner. I have to admit, though, I might just be cranky because I disliked how the show handled religion in this episode. It seemed like they were equating religion with Christianity, which bothered me. It bothered me how both Mariana and the Gutierrezes said something about wondering if the Adams-Fosters family don't believe in God since they don't go to church. Lots of people believe in God but don't go to church, because they're not *Christian* specifically. Also, imo it seemed like the show stuffed in that conversation with Mariana asking Stef and Lena why they didn't go to church just so they could show Stef and Lena reassuring Mariana that they weren't atheists or religious in some non-Christian tradition (or to reassure Mariana/the audience that Stef and Lena weren't really anything other than fuzzily and non-threateningly agnostic). Idk, it all seemed very Christian-centric to me. The way I took it, Mariana was responding to the priest calling her moms sinners not in a broad everyone's-a-sinner way, but specifically the Catholic church looks at homosexuality as a sin and same sex marriage as sinful. That's where she parted ways with what he was saying. If she's never been in church much or had any indoctrination, she wouldn't really have much frame of reference for the whole sacramental belief system. She just wanted to get a job done (baptism) so she could be a godmother. I think in reality she would also have to be confirmed to be a godparent, could be wrong about it, though. I think the way the Gutierrez family is portrayed, we're supposed to see them (the father especially) as having blind belief, so to speak -- quite a narrow interpretation of the path to goodness and God. It makes it easier to see where the fracture is in that family, that not only does Ana struggle with addiction and possibly depression and inability to bond with her children, but a very judgmental, strict Catholic belief system in her family. Where the episode broke down a little for me was how easily Ana's father and mother apparently flipped and decided to support her after Mariana's mature declaration of belief in her birth mother despite all the letdowns. It didn't ring true to me (the birth grandparents, that is). Link to comment
Kat July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 (edited) I wanted to PUNCH so many people in this episode. I missed Jude. But on the bright side, communications problems aside, Stef and Lena continue to have the best f*cking marriage on television. I love them as a couple. Edited July 21, 2015 by Kat 1 Link to comment
omgsowicked July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Brandon and Chill Guy (can't remember his name) agreed to keep their work private so there would be no sabotage. First thing Brandon does? Share his piece with Chill Guy. Argh! He deserved to have his concept taken from him. And Chill Guy was at least decent enough to let him make a decision about using it first, instead of sabotaging him from the start. Loved Stef and Lena's scene about the tree, so well done. 3 Link to comment
DeepPoet117 July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 I for one am very happy there is someone looking into the Callie/Brandon thing. Callie has a history with foster brothers (granted the Liam thing was clearly rape) and I'm glad she has a new caseworker who is looking out for her best interests. In real life I'm pretty sure they would not have placed Callie back in the Adams-Fosters' home after they had to get a restraining order against Brandon in order to stop them seeing one another (which obviously didn't work as they completely ignored it.). In real life they also would have caught the different birth father on her birth certificate when they came into care, but this show doesn't really care about realism. So, they were so quick to split Callie and AJ after Stef caught them kissing, but they didn't really do anything when it was Callie and Brandon? What does that say? Callie really needs to be in therapy and Stef and Lena need to take some sort of "parenting teenagers" class. 1 Link to comment
morakot July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 I admit I thought the priest was remarkably accommodating and welcoming. Being a godmother means you are responsible for the safety of the baby's soul, and by extension, her behavior as a good Catholic, until she is able to take that on for herself. (See here. ) Allowing Mariana to come in and be baptized minutes before she could answer for Bella was very generous. He welcomed and shook hands with Lena and Stef. He is baptizing Bella, who, as far as I remember, is an illegitimate child, and welcomed her drug addict mother. He acknowledged Mariana's unusual family and adjusted his conversation after her correction. Stef was, as is increasingly the case, reflexively inflexive in her response to Mariana. It took Lena to ask why. If you want tolerance from the world, it would be only just if you gave tolerance back. 3 Link to comment
Leslie1976 July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 Yes they did. I presumed it was to cover why AJ was being moved out and to protect Callie's privacy. However, since Callie is a foster child pending adoption, the lack of licensure would have forced the system to remove her from the home as well. 2 Link to comment
Glade July 21, 2015 Share July 21, 2015 So, Rita doesn't live at Girls United, I guess? She goes home on nights and weekends, to look after another foster child? It wasn't really clear to me where exactly AJ was going to be (presumably not at girls united) with Rita. I don't think I ever saw another employee working at Girls United except for in the webisodes (and that was just because Rosie wasn't available or willing.) But if AJ is with Rita and Callie is at girls united again, then I think there's no chance of them seeing each other at all anymore. Or will Callie stay with one of the Quinns? It's a ridiculous storyline, in any case. Since she was almost adopted like a year ago, where were these red flags back then? I think Anna should be encouraged to give her baby up for adoption--I always thought it was a bad idea to keep the baby. Even if she doesn't relapse on drugs, you don't heal from a lifetime of pain and trauma sufficient to be emotionally available for the needs of a child in just a few months of being sober. She should not have kids. And I'm glad that Marianna walked away from the ceremony; though this recycled from past seasons' catholic drama, it's also valid. The catholic church is not a modern, progressive, inclusive institution. The whole 'sinners welcomed' thing was sick. I did miss Wyatt and Jude/Connor, a lot. Brandon's storyline was super-predictable...though I was waiting for that pianist to say he wasn't going to work with him anymore (though the program probably wouldn't just allow that, once he agreed to do it.) 2 Link to comment
ShadowFacts July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 I admit I thought the priest was remarkably accommodating and welcoming. Being a godmother means you are responsible for the safety of the baby's soul, and by extension, her behavior as a good Catholic, until she is able to take that on for herself. (See here. ) Allowing Mariana to come in and be baptized minutes before she could answer for Bella was very generous. He welcomed and shook hands with Lena and Stef. He is baptizing Bella, who, as far as I remember, is an illegitimate child, and welcomed her drug addict mother. He acknowledged Mariana's unusual family and adjusted his conversation after her correction. Stef was, as is increasingly the case, reflexively inflexive in her response to Mariana. It took Lena to ask why. If you want tolerance from the world, it would be only just if you gave tolerance back. I agree that the priest was generous in skipping the instruction and letting Mariana be baptized on the spot, but I don't give him extra credit for baptizing a baby whose parents are not married (I think the term illegitimate is illegitimate when referring to people) nor for welcoming a person struggling with addiction. That's baseline human decency, and I wouldn't expect anything less from a priest. I do agree that Stef and Lena came across as reactionary and a bit strident, but they toned it down and let Mariana make her own choices. I think Anna should be encouraged to give her baby up for adoption--I always thought it was a bad idea to keep the baby. Even if she doesn't relapse on drugs, you don't heal from a lifetime of pain and trauma sufficient to be emotionally available for the needs of a child in just a few months of being sober. She should not have kids. Yes to this, and I thought the actress really did a good job showing total defeat; she tried hard to do everything right this time around, but it's just not the way it should be and she has the courage to say it out loud. 1 Link to comment
SparedTurkey July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 If you want tolerance from the world, it would be only just if you gave tolerance back. Nope. Absolutely not. You don't get brownie points for doing the right thing (the word that should be used is acceptance, not tolerance, although that is not something a catholic priest is gonna give anyway to be fair). I thought Stef's reaction to the baptism was completely appropriate and Mariana even considering being baptised was ridiculous - particularly in light of her reaction to Jesus going to Jesus-camp in season 1. This is an institution built on hatred and telling people they are going to hell for not believing and/or sinning and having a great deal of influence. Stef had the best reaction, though watering it down with crap about a 'higher power' or whatever was ridiculous. I did like that neither parent assumed Mariana's inclination towards baptism meant a rejection of them - lesser shows, or ones written 5 years ago, probably would have. And that Lena and Stef even showed up to the baptism is is a pretty solid testament to their characters and love for their kid. I don't think I'd be able to do that. But at least Mariana told the priest to get stuffed - that was a great moment. I also liked Lena's tree-thing - even that there was no build up given to the audience. Sometimes it is the way it happens. And Teri Polo completely nailed the terrified look that happens when your partner says that they are terribly sad. It was a good scene. And Ana's PPD was the first time I have particularly appreciated her character. Although it also made me think Mariana is THE most relaxed teenager ever - after listening to her birth mother tell her to her face she felt nothing for her when she was little. But then, Mariana does have two awesome mums so maybe it cancels out? 2 Link to comment
joanne3482 July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 Where the episode broke down a little for me was how easily Ana's father and mother apparently flipped and decided to support her after Mariana's mature declaration of belief in her birth mother despite all the letdowns. It didn't ring true to me (the birth grandparents, that is). I think it was hysterical that Ana's father is saying that Mariana doesn't know what they went through with Ana when Mariana is no longer living with her mother because of her mother's decisions. I know there's a difference between the parent/child and child/parent relationship but honestly between Victor and Mariana it is Mariana who should be more upset with Ana not Victor. I don't think they've ever gotten into a complete history of the twins' life with Ana, but it can't have been pretty. Link to comment
LeGrandElephant July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 I thought it was silly for Stef to just say "no" to the baptism. They should have said something like have you thought about what this means and what is involved? Being godmother means promising to raise the child in the church if the mother dies; it's not something that can be done by someone who isn't even in that religion. Obviously once Mariana did find out what it meant she changed her own mind. Callie and car - stupid. Callie and Brandon - stupid. 1 Link to comment
stopeslite July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 I liked that Stef didn't say that they'd just take the tree down, then. That's what I was expecting her to do, because she fixes everything, but she said no, this was something they had to live with and grow through and they'd do it together, but it was a part of their lives they can't erase. I liked that a lot. I've decided I'd like Brandon if it turns out that he has secretly been having a totally separate storyline that we all knew nothing about that is him buying and taking "vitamins" from a friend who is part of a door-to-door sales pyramid scheme that turn out to have been some organic drug thing that he had some specific rare reaction to that cut off blood supply to his brain or something. 4 Link to comment
LeGrandElephant July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 Didn't Mariana live with Ana till she was like six years old? If Ana never felt connected to her and was messed up on drugs the whole time, enough that she never got them baptized or had them meet their grandparents, then there must have been severe neglect that Mariana ought to remember at least some of. Have we heard anything about that? It's hard to believe Ana wouldn't have just dumped them with the grandparents in the first place. Obviously just because the show hadn't decided the grandparents existed when they first introduced Ana. 1 Link to comment
possibilities July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 I thought Lena was even more upset by the baptism idea than Stef was. Stef was the one who gave in first, saying at some point they have to make good on their promise to let the kids decide for themselves. Link to comment
DeepPoet117 July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 We've heard about Stef's issues with the church and her dad, but have we ever heard about Lena's? I wish they would have brought up that not all churches are against LGBT+ people. 2 Link to comment
izabella July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 (edited) I don't recall hearing about Lena's background with church. However, I do recall hearing them tell Mariana in this episode that they do not want her to be told she's going to hell, and don't believe in heaven, hell, and all of the associated rules and regulations the church imposes on whether people go to heaven or hell. So I believe their objections are not just about being considered sinners by any specific church, but about the entire concept of religion. As Lena said, they believe in love and the "higher" power of love to guide people. Proscriptive religious doctine and dogma is not part of that for them, and they don't want their kids believing the doctrines and dogmas and being afraid of hell. Edited July 22, 2015 by izabella Link to comment
possibilities July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 Heaven and Hell are not universal religious concepts, though. I'm Jewish and we don't have Hell. I don't know what Muslims believe about heaven and hell, but I also know that Buddhists don't have the heaven and hell issue as part of their religion. So, even just looking at those few religions, it may be true what you say that Lena and Stef don't like any religions, but we don't really know for sure, just because they reject parts of those very non-universal Christian concepts. Link to comment
izabella July 22, 2015 Share July 22, 2015 (edited) I can't tell if they are opposed to religion/s but believe in some sort of god, or if they don't believe in a god and are actively opposed to certain religious doctrine. Lena said they believe in love, but she didn't come out and say they don't believe in God. They were cagey about not coming out and saying they don't believe in God. So I think they may have left that open to interpretation. If the truth is they just don't believe in God, they would reject all religious doctrine and religions. Edited July 22, 2015 by izabella 1 Link to comment
ShadowFacts July 23, 2015 Share July 23, 2015 It looks like they don't believe in God with a capital G, but there was that higher power reference. If Lena hadn't said that, I would have thought they were on the atheism end of the spectrum. 1 Link to comment
Eeksquire July 23, 2015 Share July 23, 2015 I think Lena only became really upset after the meeting with the grandparents, and then it was as much about religion as it was about "how dare they tell MY CHILD that she's going to hell without talking to us/consulting us, as if our opinion doesn't matter" issue. It was interesting to me that, for once, Lena was much more the Mama Bear in this circumstance, which is usually Stef's domain. Link to comment
LisaM July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 The ending with the problem with Callie's adoption has pissed me off. If TPTB blow up Callie's adoption to further the possibility of Brallie in the future, I think I am done - regardless of my love for Stef/Lena, Mariana and Jonnor. They just went through a huge custody battle with a wealthy father. There is no way that Robert's attorney would have failed to have uncovered the Brallie history. It is unrealistic that it would have laid dormant till now. This had better be a red herring. Link to comment
LeGrandElephant July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 (edited) Its a major flaw in an otherwise good show. How can we root for Callie and Brandon to get together, if it will implode their family? How can we root for Callie to get adopted if it potentially puts her in a lifelong position of being attracted to her brother? How can we believe that the social workers and Robert's lawyers didn't hear about any of this, given that lots of people know and there's a legal paper trail? I always thought what would happen is Robert would be ok with Callie staying with the Fosters until he found out about the thing with Brandon, and then he would feel obligated to pull her out to protect her. But I guess now that he's signed away his parental rights, that plot can't happen. And the problem with that plot is how would it be resolved, when he would have a point? I am also confused about the whole abandonment papers thing. The state doesn't usually allow men to just sign something and get off the hook for child support, etc. I thought the only time they do allow that is when there's another parent ready to step in and adopt (e.g. a stepparent). So shouldn't those papers have happened right about the same time as the adoption, not as a separate thing that leaves Callie in legal limbo? Now if the foster system decides they want to pull her out, she can't stay with Robert? The whole thing is ridiculously convoluted. Does a family court judge have the authority to let her live with Robert even if he's not a legal parent? I have the impression family court judges have a lot of leeway. Edited July 24, 2015 by LeGrandElephant 1 Link to comment
stopeslite July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 I am honestly kind of looking forward to a conversation where Robert lets Stef have it for everyone being in the situation where Callie ends up in some random foster home. Not that it's entirely her fault, but given how much she trashed him trying to be part of Callie's life and was integral in him signing his rights away so Callie can't go to him, he has some justified yelling back at her to do. Link to comment
GenevieveS July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 I admit I thought the priest was remarkably accommodating and welcoming. Being a godmother means you are responsible for the safety of the baby's soul, and by extension, her behavior as a good Catholic, until she is able to take that on for herself. (See here. ) Allowing Mariana to come in and be baptized minutes before she could answer for Bella was very generous. He welcomed and shook hands with Lena and Stef. He is baptizing Bella, who, as far as I remember, is an illegitimate child, and welcomed her drug addict mother. He acknowledged Mariana's unusual family and adjusted his conversation after her correction. Stef was, as is increasingly the case, reflexively inflexive in her response to Mariana. It took Lena to ask why. If you want tolerance from the world, it would be only just if you gave tolerance back. This. I hate that TV always gets the concept of godparents wrong. I kept waiting for someone to explain to Mariana that being the godmother doesn't just mean "looking after Bella" in the way that she thinks it does. It means looking after her spiritual life, her faith, and guiding her in becoming Catholic (in this case). I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure Mariana would have to be more than just baptized to be the godmother -- she'd have to be confirmed (which is a multiple month process of classes that the priest referenced) and she'd have to have demonstrated that she, herself, is currently behaving like a "good" Catholic (attending mass regularly, financially supporting her parish, etc). Mariana is not a good candidate to be a godmother -- not because she's not an awesome person, but because she's not a Catholic who believes in Catholicism. On the other hand, I didn't get the impression that Ana is baptizing Bella for any reason other than pleasing her parents. I liked seeing Lena and Stef talk through the issue though and ultimately landing on letting Mariana make her own choice. I think a lot of people raise their children claiming they will let the child choose their own spiritual path, but are then shocked when the child chooses a different one than expected. I don't see Mariana actually becoming Catholic ever (too many deal breakers), but there might be another path (Christian or not) that she (or one of the other kids) eventually finds fulfilling. Or not. This incident ultimately established that those choices really are theirs to make. All I have to say about the latest reason Callie's adoption can't be finalized is this: Caseworker Turnover. I think the last caseworker pushed things through because she was trying to get a sibling group adopted and off her caseload. Balls were dropped. Hence the birth certificate issue showing up at the last minute. Now, we have a new caseworker and she's actually looking into whether this is a good thing for Callie or not. Maybe it will go away when this caseworker moves on in 6 weeks. I like seeing Ty and AJ talk about why the Fosters are doing all this for them. I think Ty is giving us the voice of an aged out foster teen -- nobody really cares about you and they are all in it for something they are getting. I'd like to hear more about where Ty is living and how -- the stats on what happens to aged out foster kids are horrific. But I'm in this for the foster care storylines, so I get that others might feel that they just keep adding characters. 3 Link to comment
LisaM July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 I really liked the whole plot with Ana having postpartum depression leading into the Stef/Lena discussion about Frankie. I also liked the scene where Stef/Lena explained to Ana's parents that they are her parents and are charged with making decisions - not the birth grandparents. I still wonder if Stef/Lena will eventually end up with the baby. Liked the scene with Mariana and the priest. Really liked that Stef/Lena reached out to Rita for guidance with the Callie/AJ situation. Liked Rita talking with Callie about bad habits - Brandon, AJ and even arguably Liam at the beginning before the rape - all foster brothers and all bad ideas. (I also liked that last week's birthday party showed us that Callie is inching ever closer to her 18th birthday.) As I stated in my annoyed post above, if they blow up Callie's adoption now - after having gone through a custody battle with a wealthy father who had private investigators at his disposal and surely would have uncovered the Brallie paperwork - I am going to be so pissed. I've seen no romantic chemistry at all between Brandon and Callie this season - none. My guess is that Callie ends up at the new Girls United for a time. Screwed again. I did notice that she has been referring to Stef and Lena as "the moms" this season - unlike prior to the end of the custody battle. As for Brandon, it is as if he is on his own island with the music camp storyline. Reminds me of Jesus and his girlfriend storylines. I FF through the music camp scenes. I'd rather see more of Brandon being jealous of Mike's interest in AJ. Really liked his point in a prior episode that Mike visits the house more now to see AJ than he ever did to see Brandon. Link to comment
Eeksquire July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 I hate that TV always gets the concept of godparents wrong. I kept waiting for someone to explain to Mariana that being the godmother doesn't just mean "looking after Bella" in the way that she thinks it does. It means looking after her spiritual life, her faith, and guiding her in becoming Catholic (in this case). I don't know that it's just tv - I think it's as much to do with changing demographics and the decline overall of organized religion. Most people I know who ask someone to be a godparent to their child don't intend it as a religious position at all - more that it's an honorific and they want that person to have a special relationship with their child. In part, I think it's because fewer and fewer people are actively involved in organized religions and if their children are baptized at all, it's only, as here, to appease the grandparents, not because they themselves are especially active in the church. That being said, Mariana's take on it is right in line with the general attitude that I see - 'watch out for her, have a special relationship', which seems to be sort of along the same lines as what Ana was thinking in asking her. The grandparents, who are active in the church and active believers (and also, obviously, the priest), have a very different take on what it means and why it's important. I think it's another example of this show being very very good at showing different perspectives without being overly "And Now We Will Have An Important Lesson". This was also a nice through-line of Mariana's storyline from her quincenara (I am 100% certain I misspelled that and I apologize), where she kind of caved to the pressure of traditional expectations and didn't dance with her moms - opting to have Mike stand in instead. (To her credit, she did feel bad about that immediately afterward.) This time, she was direct in not going with tradition because it offended her notion of family right from the start. 2 Link to comment
LeGrandElephant July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 If people want to designate someone as godmother on their own, they can do whatever they want. Or if they do it in a more laid back church it might not have many requirements. But if you are doing a ceremony in the Catholic Church, it's no surprise the are catholic rules about it. Link to comment
possibilities July 24, 2015 Share July 24, 2015 (edited) I have a friend who is godmother to her niece, and the entire family is Jewish. As far as I can tell, their relationship has nothing to do with "responsibility for her spiritual development" and is solely meant to indicate a special relationship, and the person who will care for her if her parents die or are incapacitated as caregivers. The Catholic concept of godparents as portrayed by Victor and Elena is not what I have seen in real life or on numerous fictional portrayals, where it's always meant what it meant to my friend, even if the characters were not Jewish. I'm not saying the Catholic concept is untrue, I'm just saying that I think if you aren't from that community, Mariana's definition is far more common, and it made total sense to me that she misunderstood what was being asked of her. I like that the show beats the drum for awareness of failures in the foster system, so AJ and Ty are a great addition from that perspective. I hope they will continue to develop those kinds of stories. Even though it's tiresome, sending Callie back to Girls United might actually work from that perspective. It shows not only the caseworker turnover issue (which I had not thought of, so thanks for pointing it out, GenevieveS), but also gets us back into a view of the GU population. If Callie is almost 18, can they just drag it out and she gets to choose to be adopted after her 18th birthday? Or is it somehow too late at that point? Edited July 24, 2015 by possibilities Link to comment
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