S12.E08: Top 20 Perform + Elimination

[Andie1]

It's basically a popularity contest. After all, the winner is "America's Favorite Dancer".

 

Benji and Russell did really well outside their genre, and both had their own 'it' factor that gave them the win over the more 'refined' runner-ups. Twitch did not win his season. Fik-shun and Melanie were the chosen ones, and nothing short of injury would stop them from winning it all. C'mon, Melanie was paired with Marko, and Fik-shun with Amy.... golden couples, brought to you by executive producers. I miss the days when they switch partners every single week.

Yeah, I don't think Benji or Russel were good at all outside of what they did best.. YMMV They were over-hyped, of course. 

Twitch, can dance hip hop no doubt, but as mentioned earlier his second guy place finish was all about his likability not versatility.. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

To me, Fik Shun exemplifies the fact that this is a popularity contest. He had a smile that lit up the stage and he was so eager to learn, but he was really not good outside of his genre. Benji, on the other hand was much more versatile. He did well in everything but contemporary (yes, the irony being the grand prize that year). I am not sure if Asaf is hot enough to win based on his face and his abs. I know that Nigel would love that narrative ("You came here as an untrained street dancer with a bad attitude who couldn't learn choreography and got cut from the top twenty but you have grown so much as a dancer and a person and now you're America's favorite dancer!").

So far the choreographers have mostly left me unimpressed. There hasn't been a real standout dance for me yet. But it's early days yet, and it must be hard to choreograph for trios, quartets, etc.

In theory, no, it's not difficult to choreograph for more than two people because choreographers create dances for a wide range of dancers from solos up to large group numbers. I think the difficulty for the SYTYCD choreographers is creating dances for people who aren't trained in that particular style and then sometimes having to make adjustments when it's obvious that it's too difficult (it makes no one, including the choreographers, look good when someone is really terrible at a routine).

I think what Paula said was that it was good to see "real jazz," which I took as shade about "we're calling this jazz, but it's indistinguishable from contemporary." I've only been watching this show for two seasons (in addition to watching DWtS) and I can honestly say I'm a bit contemporary'd out.

While I agree, I still stand by what I originally said, especially because Nigel agreed with her. Nigel could have had real jazz instead of the contemporary dances that were labeled as jazz all along. He decides what genres are assigned, and he approves/hires the choreographers. If he had hired someone and said, "I want a jazz routine, not a lyrical or contemporary piece," and they still gave him a faux jazz routine, he could tell them they wouldn't be hired for any more dances if they refused to listen to him. And to be honest, you know that Nigel was fine with these contemporary as jazz numbers which is why I think he needs to STFU. On a related note, I am still mad about the way he treated Keone and Mari the first time they were on the show. He saw their Michael Jackson routine and hired them to teach it to a couple on the show. He labeled it as jazz for the purposes of the show and then criticized it for not really being jazz. He infuriates me when he does crap like that.

[ari333]

Nigel makes me sick. The reasons are too numerous to list. :)

Im a sucker for Bollywood. Loved it. I flove salsa, but that was horrifying.... imo.

[rollerblade]

I'm also tired of Nigel picking on Moises for not being a "strong" dancer. By strong, he means dance like a man (#strut chest) not like a woman. What a load of frog shit. Billy Bell was never called out for being too fem, and I think Moises is a stronger (different definition than Nigel's) dancer than Billy.

 

Virgil is still my top dawg, but Moises is rising up to be my #2.

 

Darion. Poor guy. That's just the way his eye lids are, made him look half checked out. It's like the judges wanted him to get plastic surgery or something.

 

Asaf is this show's Lazaro Arbos.

 

 

Travis annoys me so much when he describes his own dances. It's INTENSE! It's EXPLOSIVE! You never know where their bodies are going to go next! It's the most THIS and the most THAT and blah blah blah!

 

Travis must have learn from Gordon Ramsay, where everything is STUNNING! and MOST AMAZING!

[Lila82]

Spencer Liff does things to me. Seeing his handsome face has been the highlight of the season. What I wouldn't have given for Asaf to trip over his bad attitude and injure himself out of the routine. If Spencer could pull a Cooper Nielson once, he can do it again!

That said, I did like the contemporary trio. When the music has an actual beat and no one rolls around on the floor, I can find it tolerable.

The salsa was lawsuit worthy. Does no one talk to the choreographers about safety ahead of time?

[Terrafamilia]

Jaja brought the performance on top of the dancing and Jim got his groove on.

Christopher Scott, I love you, man!

 

Asaf, go back to season 6 and review the journey of Legacy to see how a b-boy can embrace the challenge/opportunity.

[phoenix780]

It sucks to see people not liking trios/quads.  I love them, in theory, and I think they should be mandatory for some genres (Broadway).  They just have trouble shooting them for some reason, so everything seems off-balanced, or they do things like the salsa.  So I want them to keep going, just work out the kinks. 

 

I'm still stuck on Nigel's comment about Jaja and her partner.  What about that automatically was somehow a blending of genres, and not just a flavor of hip hop, danced in part by a trained ballet dancer who let go of his training to execute it?  He's so weird about this stuff and I don't get it.  His legacy is still strong, because he got dancing on TV for a really long time, and his show has helped feed the other primetime dance show.  The rest of it...who cares?

 

I wish the team thing could save people somehow.  As in if your team earns enough points, you're all safe.

[Rahul]

Another blah episode for me. Despite the presence of seesaws, that routine was so dull and fogettable. Why is Travis being nominated for an Emmy? I can't be the only one who finds his work cliched, overwrought and insipid, right?

The best and most memorable routine was Jim and Jaja's No Woman, No Cry, without a doubt.

I realize this is probably an elitist thing to say but as a dancer trained in two Indian classical styles (Kathak and Bharatanatyam), words cannot express how aggravated I feel every time I see Bollywood on this show. The fact that a hack like Nakul Dev Mahajan who recycles the same six steps (and outfits) and makes mudras absolutely meaningless only adds insult to injury. I'd prefer just about any other genre--even a cheesy Broadway number--to the tripe NDM serves up. Sadly I don't think real Indian classical dance will ever be featured on the show as typically years are spent learning the basic steps before you even learn the most elementary dance.

So upset that Asaf was not even in the bottom, much less eliminated, for his dismal performance last week. Same goes for Burim, but to a lesser degree. This show has fallen by leaps and bounds in my estimation.

Jason Derulo is so utterly useless. He literally parrots Nigel and Paula's comments and admits to the "mirroring" because he has no a cute observations of his own. If they eliminated him as a judge perhaps we could spend the time wasted on his comments on getting to know this crop of dancers.

Heh. Can you tell I'm bitter? /rant

Edited July 22, 2015 by Rahul

[nx74defiant]

Did they say the lighting crew was up for an emmy? Nooooooooooooo!

Don't encourage them. I hate the lighting. I want to see dancers not a light show

[hula-la]

I realize this is probably an elitist thing to say but as a dancer trained in two Indian classical styles (Kathak and Bharatanatyam), words cannot express how aggravated I feel every time I see Bollywood on this show. The fact that a hack like Nakul Dev Mahajan who recycles the same six steps (and outfits) and makes mudras absolutely meaningless only adds insult to injury. I'd prefer just about any other genre--even a cheesy Broadway number--to the tripe NDM serves up. Sadly I don't think real Indian classical dance will ever be featured on the show as typically years are spent learning the basic steps before you even learn the most elementary dance.

 

Thank you! I'm a hula dancer, and I know it would kill me to see it on the show as they would butcher a dance that actually perpetuates and promotes a culture. I shudder to think what they'd turn it in to.

ETA:I'm sorry that the quote didn't show up properly. Doing this from my IPad and not quite sure what I'm doing!

Edited July 23, 2015 by aethera
fixed the quote :)

[ToxicUnicorn]

I'm very disappointed Lily was not saved.  Ariana does nothing for me.  I also would have kept Darion over Derek.  At least I remember Darion.  All in all, I think the field is very strong this year.  

 

I like this stage vs.street thing because I think the group numbers have been fantastic.  I've really enjoyed the Top 20 ones, as well as all the Team Stage and Team Street numbers.  I hope they keep dividing up Street vs Stage group numbers for the next few weeks.

 

Gaby was the star of the opening Top 20 number again.  She's a firecracker.  I thought she threw down in the Bollywood.  Too bad she didn't get more credit for it.

 

I did not hate the Yorelis, Hailee, Darion salsa nearly as much as the rest of you.  Maybe it's because I am happy to see people faking it, and I thought they (especially the girls) were doing a good job.

 

In general, I like the random groups of trios and quartets and duets.  I was really tired of the old format.

 

Bollywood: Gaby, then Lili, were working their tiny asses off.  I hardly noticed the boys until the end, and then - well, if I had been standing in front of them, they would have had to tell me "Hey, eyes up here!" ... cause I was very distracted.

 

The new segment where the dancers run off stage to the coaches big is worse than the advertisements, to me.  At that juncture, Travis and Twitch have absolutely zero to add.  I would rather see anything else.  

 

I surprised myself by really liking the jazz routine with Moises.  Not only was he adorable, I thought he killed it, in a good way.  I remain impressed with Marissa's strength and groundedness, although I wish I could get more from her face.  JJ has charisma, but I thought she was the weakest by far.

 

Then again, I didn't like anything about Ariana and Derek's jazz except the choreography.

 

I can't remember being much of a fan of Dee Caspary's work in the past, but I thought he did a great job with Megz, Virgil, and Alexia, and I sat up and took notice of Alexia tonight.  I thought she was the star, although all 3 of them gelled for me.  So far, Megz is my favorite on Team Street.  

 

The Spencer Liff Broadway (Neptune, Asaf, and Kate) Broadway routine was cute.  I liked all of them about the same.  I'm not ready to throw Asaf out yet.  I'm pretty sure he's on the receiving end of a lot of editing.  

 

The Christopher Scott Jim and Jaja's hip hop (No Woman No Cry) absolutely did it for me.  I loved everything about this.  I agree with those who noted Jim and Jaja's chemistry.  I thought they were more connected in that dance than any other hip hop pair I can remember..  All I could think about while I was watching was that I loved this so much more than Alex f. Wong and Twitch's dance.  I still like Jim better than the previous season's ballet boys.  He emotes so much more naturally, I think.

 

Jaja was great in this number as well.  I think it's good there aren't set partnerships this year.  Jim and Jaja would carry whoever they were with to the Top 10, which always used to irritate me.  Still, I'm sure it's not random that the two of them were paired with each other and pulled this number.

 

My favorites this week:

 

Team Stage: Jim, Moises, and Alexia.

Team Street: Megz and Jaja

Christopher Scott!

[Mason]

Darion. Poor guy. That's just the way his eye lids are, made him look half checked out. It's like the judges wanted him to get plastic surgery or something.

 

Shades of Evan's "hooded eyes"...

[Jablotnik]

Finally watched it tonight.

I don't know whether they got a new director this year or what, but the camera work is even worse this season than before. Major synchronized group movement? Tight shot on that guy's back! Intimate, quiet moment? Three full rounds of SwirliCam! Fancy footwork? Tight three quarter shot!

Jesus, I should not be yelling at the TV to let me just watch the goddamned dance.

I liked the fact that it wasn't all pairs. The Bollywood number really benefitted from having four dancers.

The next great frontier that this show needs to explore is to just pick the twenty best dancers, gender and style balance be damned.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Jablotnik

[raspberry7]

I've never liked any of Jonathan and Oksana's salsa routines.  They have too many tricks/lifts for people that have never done ballroom or salsa.  It's made worse with a trio.  No wonder Darion couldn't relax.  He was too busy being a forklift or having to jump over Hailee without breaking her neck. 

Yes, I don't think the dancers should have been the ones chastised for that dance being dangerous.

[crowceilidh]

Ballet Eliana and hiphop Cyrus also.

[crowceilidh]

I really feel like the show is making an attempt to stay on the air that answers many viewers' complaints about the same-old same-old - they have more choreographers, different grouping of dancers, so far the judges are doing some semblance of judging and not just shrieking and joking amongst themselves, they have found a legit way to up the female (and male) hh dancer quotient (high time and unbelievable how strong they are), they've got a better stage than the last one I think (I would welcome commentary on that issue by people who know things about dancing stages), there are fewer jokes in total (although a crazy stupid amount of cross promotion in exchange) - I think it's really interesting.  I just hope that they don't stick with stage vs street for more than a year at a time if they are renewed,

[Zuleikha]

I'm catching up, but watching on YouTube, I don't get judges' commentary or the preview clips. I was actually quite impressed by Asaf in his number. I thought he looked quite at ease and that was with a hat obscuring his gorgeous face. I also gather that Kate got negative feedback, but I thought she was amazing. She had to anchor the piece, and she was slinky and sexy and powerful in all the right ways. And I'm predisposed to not like her due to her Travis connections.

 

Otherwise, I thought it was overall strong and fun. I liked all of the group numbers. I'm still enjoying seeing better hip hop. I was blown away by Jim in the Jim/Jaja number. Jaja obviously had the more complicated pieces, but I thought Jim looked right in his part. 

 

I would love to see the salsa choreography danced by actual salsa dancers because I think it was a great choreography for professional salseros. But Yorelis really surprised me. I thought of the three, she was the only one who actually looked good. I wish I could see her dance with a confident lead. Unfortunately, I suspect all of the lead/follow dances are going to be similarly rough. The best ones in the past have always included one lead/follow dance specialist. So again, I will be sad that the show didn't do a 3/3/3 split for teams.

 

Did Lily and Darion not get to dance solos? That's pretty rude. I'm sad Lily got the boot over Ariana because I actually remember Lily, and I have no clue who Ariana is. 

 

I loved the Team Street number. Just gorgeous. But I do think it's weird and upsetting that so many male past contestants have/are choreographing for the show, but I don't think any female contestants have outside of partnerships or that one episode where the All-Stars choreographed numbers. 

[Pallida]

Rahul, could you clarify if you don't like Bollywood in general? I'd love more perspective since it seems to be the only "ethnic" dance this show promotes.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think what Paula said was that it was good to see "real jazz," which I took as shade about "we're calling this jazz, but it's indistinguishable from contemporary." I've only been watching this show for two seasons (in addition to watching DWtS) and I can honestly say I'm a bit contemporary'd out.

Ironically, this is what used to be called contemporary during S1. I thought it was much closer to jazz than contemporary (choreographed by Mia Michaels).

 

Meanwhile, this routine from S1 was labeled as jazz (choreographed by Brian Friedman):

 

This dance from S1 was called lyrical but it's what would now be called contemporary (choreographed by Tovaris Wilson):

[ToxicUnicorn]

I'd forgotten all about the Blake-Melody Heaven routine.  It always amazes me how well Season 1 holds up to the later seasons.  That was lovely.

 

I really feel like the show is making an attempt to stay on the air that answers many viewers' complaints about the same-old same-old -

 

I could not agree more with crowceilidh's post upthread.  SYTYCD has made a lot of changes, and I think it is the freshest and most enjoyable it has been in at least 4-5 years.  It was really nice not to have contemporary after contemporary.  I'm enjoying the break from Mandy Moore and NappyTabs and Sonja, too.  Keep rotating choreographers, show!  I like that a lot.  (Only don't let Travis choreograph so many.)

 

I would like to see more new styles of dance, as well.  One of the aspects that captured me originally was the exposure to dance forms I'd never watched before.  (Edited to fix a typo that had me saying the opposite of what I wanted to)

Edited July 22, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[Blueeyedgirl]

Another question about the Twitter voting: doesn't that put those that are told they are in the bottom earlier in the show at an advantage?

 

I'm really annoyed by this twitter voting thing...

 

Signed,

an irrelevant viewer in California  :)

[luvthepros]

Thank you! I'm a hula dancer, and I know it would kill me to see it on the show as they would butcher a dance that actually perpetuates and promotes a culture. I shudder to think what they'd turn it in to.

This isn't hula but it is a cultural dance. Lauren and Mark performing Tahitian.....

 

https://youtu.be/heDpisf0j4E

[MrsMoltisanti]

Nigel makes me sick. The reasons are too numerous to list. :)

 

 

Nigel makes me more than sick.  He makes me want to hurl my tv across the street and then be sick.  He is a piece of work and I wonder if this will be the last season of SYTYCD.  We need something different.  This show has jumped the shark.  Benji and Danny Tidwell were riding the shark as it jumped the stage. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Stage Mixing With Street Is An Abomination Unto The Lord Of The Dance / Wait, are you saying stage dancers will be dancing street routines and vice versa? Has such a thing ever happened before?

[dcalley]

[in rehearsals] They always show the dancers struggling to create tension for the actual performance. (Will they be able to pull off that lift? Of course they will. They rehearsed it a lot more after the cameras left the rehearsal studio…)

Except for those times when a move they are shown rehearsing is nowhere to be found in the actual performance, or has been changed to be less difficult.

 

If Megz is going to dance anything but street, she needs to learn to stand up straight.

Yes, I was waiting for a judge to comment on her rounded back and shoulders, and no one did, which says to me that they want her to stick around.

 

they've got a better stage than the last one I think (I would welcome commentary on that issue by people who know things about dancing stages),

I don't know anything but have felt like this one is too slippery or something. There have been a lot of mistakes, several that the judges haven't mentioned.

 

I didn't like the top 20 number because it made me uncomfortable, thinking that it was disrespectful cultural appropriation.

 

I am tired of the swooping cameras and the mentor bits after the performances, especially Travis's.

 

I liked that one dancer referred to seesaws as "teeter-totters," because that's what I used to call them. (Used to because when was the last time I referred to one at all?!)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Another question about the Twitter voting: doesn't that put those that are told they are in the bottom earlier in the show at an advantage?

I'm really annoyed by this twitter voting thing...

Signed,

an irrelevant viewer in California :)

IIRC viewers were given five minutes for twitter voting after everyone in the bottom six had been revealed.

I'm also irrelevant in California so obviously my opinion doesn't matter either!

I liked that one dancer referred to seesaws as "teeter-totters," because that's what I used to call them. (Used to because when was the last time I referred to one at all?!)

I thought it was cute for the same reason! Not that seesaw sounds markedly more mature but there is just something adorable about an adult calling it a teeter totter!

I'd forgotten all about the Blake-Melody Heaven routine. It always amazes me how well Season 1 holds up to the later seasons. That was lovely.

One of the things I really liked about S1 dances is that it was clear that the dance styles were different and it didn't feel like I was watching the same routine with different music over and over. Another thing I liked is that the routines were only a minute long so there was no arsing around (TM Len Goodman). Music on, 60 seconds of dancing. No long entrances walking slowly around the stage with the wind machine blowing. Edited July 22, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Anothermi]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Stage Mixing With Street Is An Abomination Unto The Lord Of The Dance / Wait, are you saying stage dancers will be dancing street routines and vice versa? Has such a thing ever happened before?

 

I just want to give a shout out to Daniel for the recaps. IIRC he was the original recapper back at TWoP and his recaps were hilarious. I can't remember his TWoP name (perhaps some other long time viewers might remember better than me). When I tried to look it up I found the archive site has "helpfully" relabeled all recaps as by "admin".

 

I really enjoyed his recaps at TWoP - which were a lot more in depth - but he still brings the snark here. Kudos Daniel.

 

ETA: Is there a LIKE button for the recap posts?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Anothermi

[vibeology]

Travis is kind of a jerk, but that's why he came in second in season 2. He was too competitive and talked kind of douchey and that's why he lost, even though he was a superior dancer to Benji. So I'm not surprised at the comments about Travis. Great dancers aren't necessarily great people to hang out with.

This old chestnut! Benjiwas not just a good performer, he was a skilled Swing dancer who consistently won top prizes in competitions around the world for ten years before he won SYTYCD. He was considered one of the best WCS dancers out there when he won. Travis wasn't even the best contemporary dancer in his season. (Natalie and Alison were both much stronger). Hell, Travis isn't even the best contemporary dancer in his family. Nigel built up a technique vs performance narrative that season like WCS is easy. It's not and I know that to be true because any time the show tried to do it after it sucked.

Travis has grown as a dancer since, but he wasn't robbed. He was good and got to do dances that played to his strengths. Technique does not equal contemporary. Every dance style involves technique. That's the one thing I dread this season; eventually we will hear that Jaja is loved but Jim can really dance, like somehow Jaja's style isn't "real" dance. Nigel has a history of it, so it's only a matter of time.

[rollerblade]

IIRC viewers were given five minutes for twitter voting after everyone in the bottom six had been revealed.

 

I'm also irrelevant in California so obviously my opinion doesn't matter either!

 

You can tweet at around 6:50pm (or so). Yea, you will be forced spoilerino about the bottom before it airs, if you cared enough to tweet though.

[PhD-Purgatory15]

Pasha and Sara's WCS most definitely did not suck. Totally agree w/ all of your (Vibeology) thoughts on the constant machinations from Nigel. The only thing that might be a saving grace is the fact that the Stage/Street format means that the partnerships won't be staying stable (also add in the mix of trio and quartet dances that seem to be here to stay for a few more weeks)....so focusing on the micro level, week-to-week dancing Jaja probably won't be getting constantly compared with Jim. At least not till we get down to the finale or maybe the semifinals.

Edited July 22, 2015 by PhD-Purgatory15

[crowceilidh]

Also, if JaJa went to a salon and asked to be made up like Anna Trebunskaya, they could be twins. 

 

As I said above, the advantage of the stage vs street bullshit is that there are more street dancers than ever before, esp women.  Next year's Breakers vs. Ballroom <make it so, show> will have a similar advantage.

[Aethera]

Salsa - Are they just going to leave Hailee in that outfit all season? Also, isn’t it pretty unusual for them to open the show with a routine they don’t love? That one was pretty terrible. Give Hailee a non-trio next week, please! I’m fine with trios for the right styles but this is not one of them.

 

Jazz - Ariana has a good personality that came out in that video.  I thought that number was just ok. I keep forgetting there’s a Derek.

 

Contemporary - one of the better contemporary routines I’ve seen recently, and I thought they were all pretty good.

 

Bollywood - I liked the girls, but though the choreo for the boys was lacking, and that they didn’t do a lot with it.

 

Broadway - Shut up Asaf.  And I can’t believe they basically said “yo we dumbed it down for you Asaf’- it was a bit boring, and the song was weird. I do like Neptune though, and I feel like Kate is having bad luck but is a good dancer.

 

HipHop - So glad Jaja called out the subtitling. As for the dance - that was great, they were great!  I do want to see Jaja do other things - I think she’ll do well. But at least one Street dancer had to get HipHop the first week, so I don’t mind that she started here.

 

Jazz 2 - This is the first time I’ve liked Marissa. I though this was decent. Paula started to turn rather Paula-ish there.

 

Street group - Philip! The b-boys never looked committed to their moves. The outfits were great, the dancing was meh. Camera work was probably at its worst, as well.

 

Stage group - That started really muddy to me…the clothes didn’t help. The lift of Jim was cool. It got better after that.. I agree with the Travis fatigue 100%.

 

I didn’t care about the stage bottom 3 much, but I’m glad Neptune got the Twitter save. I’m sorry to see Lily go - but I agree with others - she’s not my favorite so in the end it doesn’t matter. Completely unsurprising that Darion went, of course.

 

Oh, and apparently Ryan Seacrest’s new show had terrible ratings, so hopefully we won’t have to hear about it for too long.  More dancing, less Seacrest - a life rule, really.

[crowceilidh]

I watched that damned Seacrest show and thought it was trite advertising and fame whores of various stripes.  I'm offended that it was woven in with Monday and Tuesday nights' shows.  Gross.

[Anothermi]

I just have to squee over my Dee Caspery sightings. I can't help myself. HIS perennial lack of smile has ME grinning from ear to ear and he never disappoints me - although I thought I detected a tiny beginning of a smile at one point. He's my antidote to the somewhat sickening, up-beat perkiness that is so often on display on this show.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Anothermi

[Drpepperey]

I can't figure how to quote on my phone but I'll just use old fashioned quotation marks.

"To be fair, I think this is more the producers than Travis egging no the stage dancers. Often during interviews and talking heads on other shows, the producers will specifically ask certain questions to evoke the response they want from the contestants.In this case, it's obvious that they were walking around during group rehearsal asking every person on the stage team, "Do you think you guys are going to beat Team Street this week?""

Totally understand. I think I am just sick of the editing making one team look bad or better than the other. A lot of issues this season can be blamed on poor editing.

[Andie1]

 

This old chestnut! Benjiwas not just a good performer, he was a skilled Swing dancer who consistently won top prizes in competitions around the world for ten years before he won SYTYCD. He was considered one of the best WCS dancers out there when he won.

Benji for me was really immensely likeable, but his versatility was limited. Sure he "swings" and mambos and mugs for the camera just fine, but put him into standard ballroom for me the bloom was off the rose. The Viennese Waltz was oh boy, good thing for inertia.  Most all of his dances were Benji friendly, most all required a campy humor, because why? he couldn't be convincing with an emotional piece? Even the solos were pretty much the run of the mill jivey/ swing dances with okay technique but there's been much better on the show especially amongst the ballroom dancers who've competed.  So for tongue in cheek dance styles, definitely Benji delivered..but the other dance styles? Not so much.  YMMV but for me, that season Travis was asked to really deliver in other styles as well as his own and he did.  Now, the upwards trajectory is Travis Wall, his own dance company and tour,  his choreography, the Emmy nom.  I thought during his season when he talked, he turned people off, and that gave Benji a lot of room to sell himself.  If Travis showed a little more humility maybe season 2 would have been different.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Andie1

[crowceilidh]

I wish someone would write a tell-all about the show.  For instance, is Asaf really the jerk he appears to be?  I doubt it very much.  If you watch his fellow contestants react to him, there is beginning to be a sense that he is just the type of personality that the edit monkeys and tptb can have a lot of fun with.  I pity the guy already and I didn't like him at all from the getgo (i don't even particularly like his dancing - although he seemed fine in this past week's broadway).

 

Maybe when some of these dancers get old enough (past retirement) that they no longer depend on the kindness of choreographers and string pullers, they'll be able to tell the truth. I'm not likely to live to see that though.

[Alison]

I wish someone would write a tell-all about the show.  For instance, is Asaf really the jerk he appears to be?  I doubt it very much.  If you watch his fellow contestants react to him, there is beginning to be a sense that he is just the type of personality that the edit monkeys and tptb can have a lot of fun with.  I pity the guy already and I didn't like him at all from the getgo (i don't even particularly like his dancing - although he seemed fine in this past week's broadway).

 

Maybe when some of these dancers get old enough (past retirement) that they no longer depend on the kindness of choreographers and string pullers, they'll be able to tell the truth. I'm not likely to live to see that though.

Not quite tell-alls, but the SYTYCD AfterBuzz show/podcast has contestants from past seasons and choreographers on as guest judges and some of them do not hold back! Spencer Liff is going to be on next week, and IIRC, he's pretty chatty. Mandy Moore, too.

[pamplemousse]

I liked Hailee a lot last week, but she was really bad in the salsa. She started off okay, but it just spiraled quickly and she looked like she was dancing drunk. Darion was just trying to keep his head above water. It's like they set him up to fail or something.

[Alison]

I think a 3-person salsa would set up anyone to fail. Ballroom trios rarely work out well; there was one a few seasons ago during the "Meet the Top 20" episode and even with trained ballroom dancers, it's still weird.

[Zuleikha]

They regularly do them on Dancing with the Stars now, and they're pretty popular. Of course, I've also liked the trios in the Meet the Top 20 episodes. :)

 

I do think given how poorly non-Dancesport specialists have handled salsa in the past, this should have been a duet. The extra attention could only have helped. 

[vibeology]

If they really wanted a group salsa, four would have been better than three. A few parter swaps, some nice side by side stuff but probably much easier to pickup than a trio.

[allypenguin]

I wish someone would write a tell-all about the show.  For instance, is Asaf really the jerk he appears to be?  I doubt it very much.  If you watch his fellow contestants react to him, there is beginning to be a sense that he is just the type of personality that the edit monkeys and tptb can have a lot of fun with.  I pity the guy already and I didn't like him at all from the getgo (i don't even particularly like his dancing - although he seemed fine in this past week's broadway).

 

Maybe when some of these dancers get old enough (past retirement) that they no longer depend on the kindness of choreographers and string pullers, they'll be able to tell the truth. I'm not likely to live to see that though.

 

Not exactly a tell all but Evan Kasprzak and his brother gave a pretty extensive interview about their experiences on the show :) It's worth a read if you haven't read it. http://www.avclub.com/article/broadway-brothers-talk-life-so-you-think-you-can-d-218868

[crowceilidh]

There were a lot of very interesting aspects of that interview that I wanted to quote here, but to me, this one is the most interesting:

 

 

 

AVC: Do you still watch So You Think You Can Dance?

Evan K: No, it just brings back all these stressful memories. I wouldn’t have a problem watching other dancing shows, but honestly that’s not really what I’m into; I’d rather watch Breaking Bad or Game Of Thrones or something. With So You Think You Can Dance I’m like a war veteran having flashbacks.

[luvthepros]

Not exactly a tell all but Evan Kasprzak and his brother gave a pretty extensive interview about their experiences on the show :) It's worth a read if you haven't read it. http://www.avclub.com/article/broadway-brothers-talk-life-so-you-think-you-can-d-218868

Thank you so much for posting this article. I was a big fan of Evan's in his season.

[Anothermi]

I wish someone would write a tell-all about the show.  For instance, is Asaf really the jerk he appears to be?  I doubt it very much.  If you watch his fellow contestants react to him, there is beginning to be a sense that he is just the type of personality that the edit monkeys and tptb can have a lot of fun with.  I pity the guy already and I didn't like him at all from the getgo (i don't even particularly like his dancing - although he seemed fine in this past week's broadway).

 

Maybe when some of these dancers get old enough (past retirement) that they no longer depend on the kindness of choreographers and string pullers, they'll be able to tell the truth. I'm not likely to live to see that though.

 

We'll do a tag team effort of bringing quotes from the link allypenguin posted. These ones address your post above:

 

EK:  ...it is a reality show, so someone does go home and the hat picks and partner picks are real. We don’t know any of that ahead of time. There’s even a woman there from Standards And Practices who is watching every week when we pick out of the hat. But their goal is to make good TV.

RK: The thing you learn early on is that they have the power to make you look really good or really bad with the edit.                                                                                                  .......                                                                                                                                               But someone else who has a little streak of aggression or negativity, they can spin that person into being the villain pretty easily.

EK: As an audience member, you only see these slivers of people. It is tough to know anyone as an audience member, but people formulate opinions really quickly. I do the same thing when I watch reality TV. You form snap judgments.                                                                                  

Edited July 24, 2015 by Anothermi

[dcalley]

EK:  ...it is a reality show, so someone does go home and the hat picks and partner picks are real. We don’t know any of that ahead of time. There’s even a woman there from Standards And Practices who is watching every week when we pick out of the hat. But their goal is to make good TV.

But who knows if that still applies now. Do they still mention the hat on air? Maybe you only need to do the hat if you mention the hat. I always wondered how "curated" that hat was, e.g., could it contain only "jazz," "contemporary," and "lyrical hip-hop" for Nigel's favorite contempo girl who's not pulling in the votes?

 

I think the show is up to something with Asaf's edit, I just can't figure out what.

[Anothermi]

But who knows if that still applies now. Do they still mention the hat on air? Maybe you only need to do the hat if you mention the hat. I always wondered how "curated" that hat was, e.g., could it contain only "jazz," "contemporary," and "lyrical hip-hop" for Nigel's favorite contempo girl who's not pulling in the votes?

 

I think the show is up to something with Asaf's edit, I just can't figure out what.

 

I don't know if they use a hat anymore - it became clear after a few seasons that showing that event was not "good TV" - but I'm convinced that there still is a random "draw" of some sort that decides who dances with who and what they dance. It's one of the basic premises of the show - that luck-of-the-draw plays a role in the dancer's fates. I recall someone indicating that this past episode the dancers "drew" their partners and then drew their dances. (which would explain how salsa ended up with 3 partners as I doubt the choreographers preferred that number). It would also indicate that the Standards and Practices oversight still needs to be present.

 

However, random selection doesn't mean varied selection. It is actually possible for a contemporary dancer to "draw" contemporary more times than not without anybody fixing the draw. In Season 1 this happened to Blake and it worked against him in that case. As an aside I'd like to clarify that although S01 had partner draws every week it didn't result in different partners every week. Until Blake was eliminated he was paired with Ashle  3 times (2 consecutive), with Destini 2 times (consecutive) and with Melody once. Up until the Top 4 Nick was paired with Kamila 4 times  (3 consecutive) and Michele and Melody once each. Jamile had the most variety in that up until the Top 4 he only repeated partnering once - with Destini (consecutive).

 

I agree that there's likely some long-term plan with Asaf's edit. I say long-term because compared with Darion's edit (Travis' comment about lack of commitment flapping about like a red flag) - which set him up for us to be OK with his elimination - Asaf is being shown as not getting the choreo, or complaining about it, but then the judges praise him for overcoming that problem and give him a very public "constructive feedback" pep talk. We're meant to be on the fence with him - and I am so I guess it's working.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Evan was on Season 5, which was 6 years ago, now.  If you believe the wikipedia article for Season 7, it says an All-Star partner was chosen at random each week.  However, it does not mention that styles were chosen at random (who here believes they were, when Pasha gets jive and week 1 is Alex f. Wong and Allison in a contemporary by Sonya?).  I don't recall hearing anything about randomness from that point on.

[crowceilidh]

I could swear that Cat said something about random picks of dances and/or partners at the end of the showcase your own style show i regards to the next week's show.  Of course, I have removed that from my DVR already, so I can't check.