Figure Skating

[SophiaD]

THANK YOU, everyone.  That has to be one of the most frustrating Nationals I have ever watched!  I, too would have put Rippon third.  He FELL on a quad lutz, and he got huge scores.  I loved Max's free skate.  He's working so hard to up his artistic content, and it must be so frustrating to not have that rewarded.

 

I'm also so relieved that we're not sending Jason Brown to worlds.  I love his skating when he's healthy, but, please, not TWO quad-less artistic skaters.  Let's see if Max can repeat his Skate America magic, and what Nathan can do on the World Stage.  If they'd sent Jason to worlds, they'd basically be throwing away the spot.  Let him recover and get healthy.

[Shades of Red]

Just finished watching the Canadian Dance pairs which I PVR'd.  Have to say I'm very impressed with the talent we are churning out up here.  Of course my favourites are Andrew Poje and Kaitlyn Weaver.  I adore their routine and have to say the combination of the music, the skating and the connection they have can make me emotional at times. 

 

While I'm a little sad some of our more experienced dance pairs didn't do as well as expected, I will say Elisabeth Paradis and Francois-Xavier Ouellette were a welcome surprise.  (Sorry don't know how to get the accents on their names).  He's apparently an ex-hockey player who decided to take up skating.  They have a beautiful flow to their routine, their lifts don't look awkward as dance lifts can often look and I really liked their spins.

 

Paul Poirier and Piper Gilles always bring something new and unique to the table.  I really think their long program is cool!   I'm not sure if they're the only ones who do a stationary rotational spin, but it stands out for me and I don't remember anyone else doing one.  They have some cool lifts and unique moves.  Although very different, they sort of remind me of some of the old European dancers from the days when there didn't seem to be any rules and costumes were at times very bizarre!

 

It's really nice to see Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon doing so well and having so many excellent skaters benefit from their coaching and experience.

 

Haven't watched the long for the pairs yet, but will say that was a nasty fall that Kirsten Moore Towers had yesterday in the short program.  Can't imagine how shitty her partner feels about what happened.  It really brought home how dangerous pairs' skating is once again and how much timing and skill the tricks take as well as trusting your partner.

[specialj67]

Can't make any comments on Adam's FS since I have yet to watch it (stupid RL obligations), but I look forward to it to see what people are griping about!  After watching both Max's and Nathan's free programs on YT, I'm very curious to see what Adam did that the judges seemed to like more.

 

Of the other men, so glad Grant placed 4th--he skated the hell out of that FS, and that Nathan and Max did so well and are both on the world team. Max has really been on a roll this season with that FS, and while I personally don't like all of the pauses in it, it is such a better vehicle for him that whatever it was he was doing last season. Nathan's technical game is great; I look forward to seeing him develop more of a personality on the ice and improve his PCS game. Also impressed by Vincent Zhou's FS today. Honestly, I didn't get the gushing from Tara and Johnny during the SP portion, but now I'm starting to see it. He and Nathan both give some hope for American men being relevant at the elite championship level again.

 

Relieved USFSA didn't approve Jason's petition to be on the world team. As much as I like his skating, how realistic would it have been for him to stand a chance against the likes of Yuzuru and Javier when he's been out most of the season? Without a quad, he's an outside shot at best for a bronze medal depending on how many errors the other medal contenders make. hopefully he'll make good use of the time away from competition to come back strong for next season.

[ChicksDigScars]

Just saw on Twitter that Nathan Chen hurt his back (or hip) during the exhibition, stopped his program and was being removed from the building in a wheelchair. Ugh. (Posted by @skatinglesson Twitter account)

Edited January 25, 2016 by ChicksDigScars

[Athena]

This is a reminder about our first rule on these forums: Be Civil to your fellow posters. This board is house party where you can snark about on-air personalities, but not each other. If you disagree with someone, you can Ignore them in your Control Panel. Do not call someone else out. If they are rude, report them. Thank you. Back to the figure skating coverage.

[SophiaD]

A WHEELCHAIR?  Oh, no!  Get well soon, Nathan.  :(

 

On the ladies side, Gracie has always struck me as really nervous when dealing with media, if anything.  So, she gives these bland, boring non-committal answers that won't "get her into trouble."  I was so delighted that she won last night and finally felt comfortable enough to show a little fire.

[Tippi]

What incredible bad luck for Nathan!  I sure hope he is not injured.

[ML89]

WhitWit has it on the clubs vs training centers. I know when I skated, my rink didn't have a club, so our skaters with aspirations joined the nearest club to use for their affiliation.

I hope Nathan isn't hurt badly - Ice Network tweeted he'd make a full recovery but they should let the men skate Saturday as well.

WhitWit has it on the clubs vs training centers. I know when I skated, my rink didn't have a club, so our skaters with aspirations joined the nearest club to use for their affiliation.

I hope Nathan isn't hurt badly - Ice Network tweeted he'd make a full recovery but they should let the men skate Saturday as well.

[gatopretoNYC]

 

When I think of past single skaters with Attitude--does anybody beat Maria Butyrskaya? I totally imagine her house being full of mirrors. It was crazy too because she wasn't even that good, she was just persistent as hell. (I give her credit for how hard she worked but boy, was she ever full of herself.)

I always hated her never-straight, always slightly bent knees.

[MaryMitch]

I don't understand the technical scores either, but I enjoyed watching Adam Rippon's and Grant Hochstein's programs more than the others. When I first started watching figure skating I didn't really enjoy the dance, but now that I'm older I find that I appreciate the artistry more and more.

[Mittengirl]

It seemed like there were only two coaches for men's and ladies skaters - Artunian and Tom Z. from Colorado Springs. How does that work; one coach having so many top skaters? Shunted off to assistant coaches much of the time? I would kill to be a fly on the wall when parents are bitching about Princess not getting the time she deserves because she is the best. Of course, if I was the one footing the bills I might be counting each second of attention too.

[ChicksDigScars]

Bates's bitch face was even bitchier than Chock's.

 

Ahhh. Shades of the figure skating forum at TWoP. Where Scott Moir's bitchface always brought the righteous snark. 

 

Good times.

[caracas1914]

Good Lord, Polina's FS , has there ever been an interesting program to GWTW music? As Dick Button would say " it didn't sing".

She skated great but that program just sat there.

[attica]

I have to say I gasped loudly at Chen's final spin sequence. Holy moly, how do you not injure your neck in that position at that speed?!

 

I would have felt more disposed to Rippon if he still had lavender/silver hair. So conventional with the brunet! ;) IA that Aaron's program was superior here. But with Brown out at Worlds, perhaps the international judges will have a different view.

 

I find the post-skate interviews with Andrea Joyce The Worst. So banal, so excruciating. Nobody ever says anything interesting, and everybody looks fake when they mouth those "I just want a good skate!" platitudes. Which is why Adam's "Andrea, I'm a witch; you can't kill me!" got all kinds of points in my book.

 

Got a kick out of Johnny's reaction (or, really, non-reaction) when Scott Hamilton complimented his commentary. I may have been reading into it, but it felt like "What, you're telling me I know what I'm talking about? I know that, honey. Pfft!"

[Avaleigh]

I'll finally be watching the mens in a bit. I'm kind of happy that I'm spoiled considering some of the outrage I've read. I love Adam so I was happy to hear that he won but I'm bummed that he doesn't sound as though he had a strong skate. 

 

I'm still on a high of two of my favorites winning (Shibs and Gracie.) I feel like I so often come away from Nationals feeling disappointed and save for the usual disappointment with Mirai. 

 

Good Lord, Polina's FS , has there ever been an interesting program to GWTW music? As Dick Button would say " it didn't sing".

She skated great but that program just sat there.

I remember Viktoria Volchkova skating to it back in the day. It didn't work then and it's not working now. I love the movie GWTW and I love the score but I've never seen it done well. I'm happy to be corrected. I can see it maybe working with the right pair team but that's about it. 

[cpcathy]

Am I the only one who didn't care for Max's free skate? I saw him standing a lot, waving his arms. Just because you skate to Swan Lake (even if it's in the form of Black Swan) doesn't mean you have an artistic program. I enjoyed Adam's program, even with the fall. Are the judges just moving toward more artistic programs or are there shenanigans going on? Do we have to change the scoring system again??

[ronaround74]

 

Good Lord, Polina's FS , has there ever been an interesting program to GWTW music?

 

I liked Anna Rechnio's short program to GWTW at 1998 Worlds, but that was more due to the all-guns-blazing quality of her performance (she finished 2nd in the SP to Michelle Kwan there) rather than anything special about the program/choreography itself.

 

My mouth was agape (in a happy way) when the ShibSibs' FD scores came up and they took the lead. I got to see both them and Chock & Bates compete in person at Skate America a couple seasons back, and while C&B won, the Shibutanis got by far the bigger ovation. Their connection to the audience is that much stronger.

 

I actually like Ashley Wagner's skating; I feel she's a far better performer than either Gracie or Polina, although I do think technically she doesn't quite match up to the other two, especially in terms of jump height and rotation. I wish though that Ashley would do a little less self-promotion/trumpeting and just put down solid, consistent programs on a regular basis!

[iMonrey]

 

I'm already over Gracie, so seems so snotty.

 

Funny you should say that because I got a rather snotty vibe from Paulina. Maybe she just got tired of being asked how it feels to be ahead of Ashley and Gracie but she also blanched at the suggestion that she had an uneven season on the Grand Prix circuit, and she did. 

 

I'm still fuming over the final placement of the top three men and I found Johnny's comments about judging shenanigans very interesting. I'm not sure exactly what he was getting at though - how did placing Adam Rippon first "justify" giving Jason Brown a spot on the Worlds team? I wasn't quite following his logic. I do suspect shenanigans though of some sort despite Scott Hamilton's best efforts to prop up the current scoring system. (Scott lost credibility with me a long time ago.) Seems like there's still a lot of leeway in this scoring system to allow for whatever agenda the judging panel is trying to achieve.

[Hanahope]

I was sad to have missed the pairs and ice dancing, which are my favs because nbc told us it was snowing all day.  Really?  I didn't know.  hopefully we won't have a blizzard for worlds.

 

With all the talk of men needing a quad, why do women still not do a triple axle?  Its been how many years since Tanya and still no one does it?

[cpcathy]

Didn't Tara Lipinski do one?

 

I don't even know why we need the quad, frankly, I'd rather see a clean program with triples instead of messy quads.

[Avaleigh]

I want to say that Courtney Hicks was/is working on her triple axel but I might be misremembering. 

 

Good point though that the Russians and Japanese both have at least one lady who can (sometimes) hit a triple axel.

 

It's been a long time since a top American lady has tried a triple axel or quad. I remember Sasha briefly attempting to do the quad sal but I don't remember any serious attempt in competition. Kimmie Meissner is the only other person I can think of and IIRC hers weren't exactly clean. 

[KFC]

Video of Sasha's quad attempt in practice in 2001: 

 

She attempted it a few times in competition but it definitely wasn't anywhere near being considered completed, not even under the old 6.0 system. Tara never tried a quad (at least not in competition or a noteworthy practice) or a triple axel, but of course she had those triple-triple combos that she was famous for.

 

Surya Bonaly attempted a quad a few times (1991 Worlds, and maybe the 1992 Olympics), but same thing. Definitely cheated even under the less stringent rules of the 6.0 system.

 

Mao Asada does a triple axel, and so does the reigning ladies World Champ, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, from Russia. Although I think Tuktamysheva's been struggling with hers this season?

Edited January 25, 2016 by KFC

[Barbara Manatee]

I hope Chock and Bates don't read the forums, because the nearly universal glee right now would really leave a mark. I think the loss might be good for them in the long run, though. It felt as though they'd gotten a little complacent about being U.S. #1 - Tara claimed in NBC's Nationals preview that they were already looking ahead to Worlds. Big mistake.

[selkie]

I think in Polina's case, it isn't so much snottiness but a bit of magical thinking that help her get through the season without mentally crashing and burning too much. IIRC, she spent previous seasons swearing that she was not underrotating jumps and she didn't understand why she kept getting marked down for them. (I suspect even as she was saying one thing, she was spending a lot of practice time actually trying to fix that.)

[Rick Kitchen]

Ugh.  Winning Nationals without a quad is not going to help you in Worlds.  :(

[attica]

Didn't Tara Lipinski do one?

 

On air, Johnny was talking about the difference in take-off techniques for that jump, and TL asked him to elaborate, as she had never done one.

[caracas1914]

Tara's double axel had about a handkerchief's width at its best as far as height, I've never seen such a low skimming one; so the thought of someone with her technique ever attempting a triple axel.

Her 3L/3L was horribly cheated to the naked eye, but having said that she put up a couple of her best performances when it counted the most.

I was at Skate America in CS in 2001 and I must say Sasha put a couple of quad salchows in practice that looked very clean, a pity she never landed one in comp.

Edited January 26, 2016 by caracas1914

[ChicksDigScars]

Tara's double axel had about a handkerchief's width at its best as far as height, I've never seen such a low skimming one; so the thought of someone with her technique ever attempting a triple axel.

 

It still burns my ass that she won a gold medal over Kwan. I still remember those jumps and commenting over the fact that she barely left the ground, and that wasn't going to work once she grew hips and boobs. 

[iMonrey]

 

Tara's double axel had about a handkerchief's width at its best as far as height, I've never seen such a low skimming one; so the thought of someone with her technique ever attempting a triple axel

 

That's because she started out as a roller skater and you could really tell she'd learned her jumping technique originally on roller skates. All her jumps were very low to the ground, but they did cover pretty good distance. I did think she deserved the Olympic medal over Michelle Kwan though. Kwan skated so conservatively and had a couple of bobbles. 

[Minneapple]

Michelle Kwan is one of my favorite skaters ever. Her artistry honestly moved me to tears. There are only a handful of skaters who really show that connection with the music, their program, no matter what it is, and she was one of them.

 

I'm guessing the women don't do triple axels on a regular basis because few of them really try it, so they don't feel the need.

 

Anyway, I finally had a chance to watch the ice dancing final and you guys were not wrong about Chock and Bates. Bates' fake clapping cracked me up. I have it on repeat, someone gif it please.

 

I love the Shib Sibs because they seem so genuinely happy and smiley.

 

Not sure any of these US skaters will be able to hold up on a world stage, but I guess we'll see. 

[attica]

I'm guessing the women don't do triple axels on a regular basis because few of them really try it, so they don't feel the need.

 

And the few that try don't land them cleanly often enough in competition to raise the bar.

[iMonrey]

I used to think there was something of a stigma against women trying the 3A because nobody wanted to be compared to Tonya Harding (and that may have been true, for a time). Now I think the risk just isn't worth the points - you get more points for triple triple combinations than you get for a triple axle. 

[caracas1914]

Now I think the risk just isn't worth the points - you get more points for triple triple combinations than you get for a triple axle.

Specifically I remember the Kim YuNa/ Mao Asada battles, it was obvious that Mao even landing all her 3axles wouldn't have changed the outcome. With the 3 axel the risk doesn't seem worth the reward, personally ID rather it be raised in pont total just to mix things up.

[ChicksDigScars]

Not sure any of these US skaters will be able to hold up on a world stage, but I guess we'll see. 

 

Ice dancers will. I just hope that the world judges also see what the audience does when it comes to the Shibs. 

 

They have had weird run at Worlds. It was almost like the judges did a "whoops, too soon, my bad" after awarding them a World bronze in 2011, and then felt the need to knock them down and make they "pay their dues" after that.

 

They just have personality that Chock and Bates don't. And this season's Coldplay dance is one of those dances that people talk about for years after. 

[honeywest]

Javier Fernandez is in first after the short at Europeans, more than fourteen points ahead of Maxim Kovtun in second, followed by Michal Brezina, Alexei Bychenko, and Daniel Samohin. Russian ladies--Eugenia Medvedeva, Elena Radionova, and Anna Pogorilaya--have the top three spots after the short.

 

For the first time, Europeans (in Bratislava this year) has a mascot. I don't know what it's supposed to be or how it relates to skating--it looks a little like a chess pawn, but with a face like Coraline's--but when the camera focuses on those empty black eyes, it's creepy as hell.

[Rick Kitchen]

Kevin Reynolds skates as Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop.

[Good Queen Jane]

The USFSA announced today that Nathan Chen will miss both the Junior and Senior World Championships due to the hip injury he suffered during the exhibition program on Sunday in St. Paul.

 

Chen suffered an avulsion injury, which is when a piece of bone tears away from the main part of the bone. Adolescent athletes are at higher risk for such injuries, according to doctors. Chen underwent hip surgery yesterday, and is expected to return to the ice with restrictions in about 8 to 10 weeks. Doctors expect him to make a full recovery.

 

The USFSA has named Grant Hochstein, who finished 4th in Men, to replace Chen on the World Team for Boston, and Junior Men’s champion Tomoki Hiwatashi to replace Chen on the Junior World Team.

[attica]

Yikes! I'm hopeful that the expression "he's young, he'll bounce back" is apropos here.

[Tippi]

I was really looking forward to seeing how Nathan would do at Worlds.  I'm very bummed about this and hope he can fully recover.   I wish now USFSA would put Jason in for the 3rd spot, but I know Hochstein is the 1st alternate.

[honeywest]

Let everybody--Nathan, Jason, Josh Farris--heal properly and come back strong next season.

 

I love Fernandez, who won his fourth consecutive Europeans today, but he was ridiculously overmarked (over 300 points). Bychenko for silver? Not a sentence I'd usually write, but--Amodio was robbed.

[caracas1914]

Javier has all the elements but there's something about his skating that just doesn't soar for me, for all his musicality.

[MaryMitch]

Something I've always wondered - do the skaters generally get permission to use the music from the artists, or do they have to pay a fee, or what?

[honeywest]

NBC is showing the U.S. gala now. Nathan injured himself on the first jump.

[annzeepark914]

I have always found her to be that way. I just get a massive "mean girl" vibe off her. And I wonder if her wearing that "World Team" vest while warming up was a way to psyche out other skaters.

I've gotten the "mean girl" vibe ever since she lost to Ashley ('13 or '14?) and she wouldn't stand up when Ashley came over for the post-comp ritual hug and made Ashley bend completely over to hug her (someone over at Golden Skates posted a picture of this).  That was nasty...plus her making fun of the way the Japanese don't pronounce "r".  Mean girl, indeed.

[specialj67]

NBC actually showed a bit of ice dancing from Euorpeans, which was a pleasant surprise. I'd never know that Papadakis and Cizeron had been out most of the season based on that free program, which is awesome. Super excited to see how they do at Worlds.

I will freely admit to my ignorance on the finer technical pants of skating, but I honestly can't see much of a skating style difference between Elena Radionova and Evgenia Medvedeva. The way Johnny and Tara were exclaiming over the differences between them confuses me. Any explanations for people here would be much appreciated.

[ChicksDigScars]

And here I got all hopeful while watching U. S. Nationals, that no one seemed to be wearing the fugly "tights over the skate boot." And then I watched Europeans. The trend is still alive and well. Unfortunately.

Not fond of gloves, either.

What is the story with Volosozhar and Trankov? Did they retire after Sochi and decide to come back this season? Or was it a planned sabbatical? Or did the Russian Federation want a more consistent team to keep that title away from the Chinese, Canadians and/or Germans, and beg them to come back?

God knows there's no U.S. Pair that stays together long enough to even sniff the podium, let alone wrestle that title away. So frustrating to watch year after year.

[attica]

but I honestly can't see much of a skating style difference between Elena Radionova and Evgenia Medvedeva.

 

If it were a few years back, Radionova would have been ensconced in the pantheon of what I called GWAFs. Glitter Wearing Arm Flappers. Happily, the trend for glitter has subsided, but there is still a tendency to arm-flapping amongst skaters. EM's arm movements are far less flappy, to my eye. As to the blade work, I'll leave that commentary to folks who know.

[Good Queen Jane]

for

Something I've always wondered - do the skaters generally get permission to use the music from the artists, or do they have to pay a fee, or what?

 

The skaters pay for a performance license for the music, the same kind of fee a club or bar pays (or is supposed to pay) for use of a song. They are licensed through groups like ASCAP or BMI. Occasionally a top level skater gets an orchestra or band to record a piece just for a skater, but that's usually more expensive than most skaters can afford.

 

What is the story with Volosozhar and Trankov? Did they retire after Sochi and decide to come back this season? Or was it a planned sabbatical? Or did the Russian Federation want a more consistent team to keep that title away from the Chinese, Canadians and/or Germans, and beg them to come back?

 

Trankov had shoulder surgery last year and the pair decided to sit out the whole season rather than rush his rehabilitation.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Good Queen Jane

[ronaround74]

I happened upon a video of Anna Pogorilaya's free skate at 2016 Europeans where she had a couple of "outrageous falls" (per Johnny Weir). She pretty much logrolled on the ice after going down; definitely not the "bounce down, bounce right back up" type of falls that Dick Button was so fond of pointing out whenever Michelle Kwan would take a (rare) spill. Anyway, then I found Pogorilaya's short program from a Grand Prix event earlier this season (I think NHK) where she fell twice on jumps AND in her step sequence, and all of them were also these horrendous, sprawl-across-the-ice kind of falls. What's her deal? Has she always been prone to falling in this manner? She seems to skate very fast so does she maybe carry so much speed through her jumps that there's no way for her to fall gracefully? I fear she's going to concuss herself one of these days (if she hasn't already).

[iMonrey]

 

I will freely admit to my ignorance on the finer technical pants of skating, but I honestly can't see much of a skating style difference between Elena Radionova and Evgenia Medvedeva. The way Johnny and Tara were exclaiming over the differences between them confuses me. Any explanations for people here would be much appreciated.

 

Sometimes Johnny Weir has some really insightful and helpful things to say, and sometimes he's just full of crap. I really wasn't the least impressed with Radionova's skating style - as attica pointed out above, she does a lot of arm flapping which seems to be a big thing among the Russians (Plushenko made a career out of it). Johnny seems to think she has some sort of ethereal "skating from the heart" quality which I frankly do not see. I just think he's projecting; he trained with Russian coaches for awhile and is pre-disposed to praise the Russians. I honestly think Gracie Gold or even Ashley Wagner could beat Radionova if they skated clean programs, they are both far more poised and polished. And I actually thought the Latvian skater, Angelina Kuchvalska, should have been second or third. Radionova just seems a bit ungainly to me. 

 

Medvedeva is much more graceful and elegant but to me she overly relies on the hand over the head thing for every jump. I get that it's a higher point value to do it that way, but if you do it on almost every jump it starts to look like a crutch. Maybe she should just do that on one or two jumps per program. 

 

I honestly have a hard time keeping track of the Russian ladies. It seems like there's a new batch of them every season, I can never remember their names, and I'm always wondering where the last batch went.