Figure Skating

[healthnut]

11 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

So, Karen is picked over Amber for the Worlds team. How are we feeling about that? 

They couldn’t pick Amber, this is literally her first clean free skate like ever. Alysa is still too young. That leaves Karen or Mariah. Mariah is probably the correct choice due to body of work but placing fifth here put USFS in a tough spot. All things considered, I understand their choice. I have zero issue with Karen getting the nod over Amber. To me, the issue is whether Mariah should’ve been given the spot. I’d say no after a fifth place finish. Had she been fourth, I’d say yes, but fifth? Hard to justify. 

[Jeddah]

25 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

So, Karen is picked over Amber for the Worlds team. How are we feeling about that? 

I’m not sure how to feel! Normally I’m in favor of sending the top placements from Nationals, but I get why they did it. I really thought if they bumped Amber it would be for Mariah. I feel bad for Amber, but it was only a point difference in scores, and she has a long history of blowing it. Karen’s 4th place finish the last time she went to Worlds secured 3 spots for the Olympics, so maybe she can do it again. I’m happy I was wrong about USFS giving up on Karen!

[emmawoodhouse]

Good point about Karen helping to secure 3 spots. BOW trumps the propensity to under rotate. It was basically a 3 way tie for silver, and Mariah was many points behind. With no triple-triple. 

I think Carebear was the right call.

[displayname]

54 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

So, Karen is picked over Amber for the Worlds team. How are we feeling about that? 

There was a difference of <1 point. That's just some raw GOE from a judge in favour of one skater. So Karen is the right decision, because she's a much better skater than Glenn.

(I also disagree with the placement, since to me Chen did better overall. Her PCS were underscored in comparison to Glenn - and to be completely fair, she should have the highest PCS in both programs.)

[annzeepark914]

Goody! Pairs & ice dance up next. At least in ice dance the music isn't so wretched. USFS needs to do something about ladies' musical choices. It's getting worse each year since vocals were allowed. Fingers crossed for Knierem/Frazier and Chock & Bates :>)

[Mindthinkr]

Oh the height that Kniernim got on her throw triple twist in the final was a marvel to look at. 
I’m very happy that they have found each other to skate with. What a debut. 

[honeywest]

If only Evan hadn’t screwed up that twizzle. . . .

[healthnut]

1 minute ago, honeywest said:

 

If only Evan hadn’t screwed up that twizzle. . . .

 

I was coming to say the same thing! So bummed 😬 

Oh well, at least Alexa & Brandon skated awesome, so I’ll still go to bed happy. 

[Brookside]

Can someone explain why they have cardboard cutout audience members?  The skaters practice for hours without an audience so I would have thought that a fake audience would be more distracting than not.  It's certainly distracting to me as a casual viewer.

[annzeepark914]

1 minute ago, honeywest said:

If only Evan hadn’t screwed up that twizzle. . . .

I'll need an expert on ice dance to explain how H/D's free dance surpassed C/B. I was really surprised by the results. Haweyek & Baker, IMO, just don't look right together. She looks bigger than Baker. I was really impressed by McNamara/Spiradonov & Green/Parsons.  The future of American ice dance still looks good!

 

[healthnut]

43 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I'll need an expert on ice dance to explain how H/D's free dance surpassed C/B. I was really surprised by the results.

Evan fell out of his last twizzle so he got a level 3 instead of a level 4, so C/B twizzle score was 7.78. H/D got level 4 on both of theirs, so their score was 10.04. A difference of 2.26, they lost by 2.07. H/D did lose a level on their dance spin but the base level difference between a level 4 and a level 3 is only .75 pts, so the twizzle error was the killer. Madison Chock messed up her twizzle in the rhythm dance but they got a level 4 in their finnstep vs H/D’s level 3 so it made up for the error. H/D didn’t make a big enough error here so C/B couldn’t overcome the error, had they been clean, they would’ve won. 

[Mirabelle]

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

Can someone explain why they have cardboard cutout audience members?  The skaters practice for hours without an audience so I would have thought that a fake audience would be more distracting than not.  It's certainly distracting to me as a casual viewer.

I think people pay to have them there so it's a way for USFS to generate some revenue. They need to a way to make some money since the big money TV contracts don't exist anymore. 

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

I think people pay to have them there so it's a way for USFS to generate some revenue. They need to a way to make some money since the big money TV contracts don't exist anymore. 

The money raised goes to a charity, not the USFS.

[Mindthinkr]

6 hours ago, Mirabelle said:

I think people pay to have them there so it's a way for USFS to generate some revenue. They need to a way to make some money since the big money TV contracts don't exist anymore. 

Yes, and one of the audience members is Kristi Yamaguchi’s dog that is a rescue. 

[Jillibean]

I’m happy for Alexa. This team seems so promising. I did notice that there was a slight restraint to her triumphant celebration on the ice after their program, in what appeared to be a “this is not my husband, better not jump all over him” sort of way.

Ughhh, that twizzle. I think C/B’s mistakes on both programs show just how important it is to get out there and compete at least once before Nationals. However, since it’s Madi who has been the one to mess up the last three or four times, this at least evens them out a bit? (I was shocked it was Evan who messed up. He’s usually so solid.)  It must be so frustrating for them to constantly have their training time impacted by injuries. This is the second time in three years that they’ve had to sit out a huge amount of time due to injury. But I ultimately agree with the results-I don’t like H/D, but they skated their free so cleanly that you had to give it to them. I think the scoring shows that C/B would have edged them out if not for that mistake, though. 

It’ll be interesting to see if worlds happen. 

[Avaleigh]

13 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

So, Karen is picked over Amber for the Worlds team. How are we feeling about that? 

I'm happy for Karen and repeat my earlier statement that she's easily the most artistic of the US ladies. I also agree with the poster that she hasn't been rewarded enough in terms of PCS.

That being said, I'm definitely in the minority because I would have chosen Amber to go to Worlds if I'd had a vote. I think she should have been given the chance to gain some international experience in a big competition like Worlds before the Olympic season. She's improved so much, I feel like she really earned her spot. I guess the only way they would have sent her is if she'd hit the triple axel in the short. Hopefully this will just make her more determined. 

When I think of how Karen has fared internationally, I'm not sure that I agree with the train of thought she and Bradie together are our best chance to increase the number of spots for the ladies. No medals from the Grand Prix ever, no Four Continents medals, no medals at Worlds. Not even a medal at Skate America when she was only against other Americans. Karen was fourth and Amber was fifth at Skate America. They really are comparable when it comes to international results, Karen has just had more opportunities than Amber. Also, Amber doesn't have the underrotation issues that Karen sometimes has on her jumps. 

Anyway, I hope that Karen and Bradie have perfect skates at Worlds. It would be awesome if the US could send three ladies again. 

[specialj67]

As disappointed as I am that Chock and Bates didn’t win again, I get it. Chock and Bates have better programs, that very effectively highlight what they do best, but Hubbell and Donohue are wonderful skaters and made less costly errors overall. Most of my quibbles with Hubbell and Donohue are down the aesthetics, like music and costuming choices. I was sort of distracted by Zach’s shirt in the free skate; it seemed like the design choices was “warm-up gear, but make it fashion!” And I am so over Hallelujah as a music choice.

In general, ice dance is my fave to watch from US nationals. We truly do have an embarrassment of riches in that discipline. All of the teams in the 4th-7th place range were great to watch, even if the lower ranked teams do not have the same speed or choreographed complexity of the top teams. I don’t think I’ve ever watched Cesanek and Yehorov before, so this was a wonderful introduction for me. Is this their first year at the senior level? If so, I am very impressed. Their lift where she was perched on his shoulders was my fave of the event. 

[healthnut]

7 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

I don’t think I’ve ever watched Cesanek and Yehorov before, so this was a wonderful introduction for me. Is this their first year at the senior level?

Yes, they were fourth in juniors last year and got the nod to skate at Skate America and they were fifth. Their tech score was higher than both Green/Parsons and Carriera/Ponomarenko at SA. I love them. They have great chemistry.

[Brookside]

9 hours ago, Mirabelle said:

I think people pay to have them there so it's a way for USFS to generate some revenue. They need to a way to make some money since the big money TV contracts don't exist anymore. 

 

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

The money raised goes to a charity, not the USFS.

Thanks for the explanations.  I guess the fact that I was distracted by them and the skaters were not explains why I'm not a world-class competitor 🙂 

[Mirabelle]

To be fair to you, you are not busy trying to get your body to defy the limits of physicality in time to music in an aesthetically pleasing way. 

[annzeepark914]

12 minutes ago, Brookside said:

 

Thanks for the explanations.  I guess the fact that I was distracted by them and the skaters were not explains why I'm not a world-class competitor 🙂 

I liked having them there as opposed to empty seats. For some odd reason, I never looked at them (but then, when real live audiences were there, I never looked at them either). What bothered me was the loudness of some of the music. There were several times I couldn't hear what Johnny and then Tanith were saying (& it was about skating technique/errors, not idle chatter). Not having people in those seats affected accoustics.

[Growsonwalls]

Gracie Gold was painful. I didn't expect her jumps to be strong, but watching her so sluggish out on the ice and seeing her basic skating skills so deteriorated was sad. She used to have such beautiful spins and stroking. 

[estellasmum]

Ok, I haven't watched figure skating for a long, long time. Think Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding. What happened to women's skating in the US? That was pretty different than I remember it. The one who won was boring and just kind of waved her arms around in between jumps (along with a lot of them, IMHO) and the one that went last that a lot of you seemed to be rooting for, I feel bad for also, because she seemed like she actually had some artistry. Is it just me, or did the artistry leave the sport, or is it just this group, or am I wrong? I see from reading a few pages that we must be pretty poor compared to Russia/Japan, so I'm hoping this is just a down few years.

[Growsonwalls]

Ok this is tricky ... but anyone alarmed at Nathan Chen's weight? He looks like he's lost so much weight recently. 

[specialj67]

What an...anticlimactic?... ending for the men’s event. I’m sure there were reasons for Jason putting in that quad attempt, but man, I wish he wouldn’t have. And it was strange to see Nathan make mistakes like that. Less strange to see that with Vincent, but still. You can tell what a difference not competing much this season did for the top 3. Still, even with the errors, Jason’s general skating was beautiful.

it was nice to see Yaroslav and Maxim do so well. I’m not super familiar with either skater, so I hope these performances are examples of what to expect in the future and not flukes. 
 

My favorite individual moment of the men’s free skate was Jimmy Ma’s reaction to his score—it’s always nice to get a glimpse of the real person and not a rehearsed response!

My favorite discovery was Joonsoo Kim. Even though the back half of his free skate wasn’t the cleanest, the front half was really nice, and he projects a really warm and inviting vibe in this program. 

[annzeepark914]

I couldn't wait for Jason's program. Great music and interpretation. Well, he once again tried a quad. Guess it's not meant to be. 

Re: the change in (ladies) skating from the days of Nancy & Tonya?  It's not very pretty, IMO. Mostly sappy ballads and OTT concentration on the big jumps vs. the Ina Bauers & spirals that made such a statement back in the day.  For me, ice dance has replaced ladies when it comes to speed, artistry, and athletics (perfect example: Madison's "snake" slithering around Evan throughout their free dance). 

 

[Growsonwalls]

It's the US ladies that are zzzz. I don't think the ladies competition worldwide is zzz. 

[Jeddah]

Let’s not go overboard being nostalgic for 1994. There was nothing artistic about Tonya Harding skating to the Jurassic Park soundtrack.

[Growsonwalls]

6 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Let’s not go overboard being nostalgic for 1994. There was nothing artistic about Tonya Harding skating to the Jurassic Park soundtrack.

Nancy wasn;t very artistic either. Or I should say the choreography by Evy Scotvold rarely showed off any artistry.

[estellasmum]

44 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Let’s not go overboard being nostalgic for 1994. There was nothing artistic about Tonya Harding skating to the Jurassic Park soundtrack.

I see what you mean. And then there was the one from France (Suryia Bonaly??) whose program seemed to only be there to lead up to the inevitable backflip. Maybe I don't mean artistry, I'm not sure what I mean. My mom grew up loving skating, and we'd always watch it on TV and go to the tours every year, and it was exciting. Tonya also practiced at my local mall growing up, and we'd watch her a lot. (Don't count this against me, I used to have to help her in my job, and it was always a fight to NOT help her.) I haven't watched since I left the house, and watched the entire ladies program the other night, out of sheer I just wanted to veg out in front of the TV and there was literally nothing else on, and was highly disappointed. Or maybe bored. I watched the last 2 competitors only of the men's program today, and it just seemed much better, even with the falling.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:04 AM, Avaleigh said:

Did anyone watch Russian nationals? 

I'm so happy for Anna. Considering how stiff the competition has been the past few years, three national titles in a row is an incredible achievement even with the absence of Kostornaia. She was breathing so heavily after the short I was worried about how she'd make it through a long but I thought the performance was great. Ridiculous that she can do a 3lutz/3loop so late in the program and make it seem effortless. 

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of Trusova, I thought she was unfairly placed in the short program. Daria had a very noticeable error in the step sequence (including a hand down on the ice) and Kamila had a straight up fall (not to mention a dodgy looking edge on the lutz) but the GOE and PCS didn't really reflect this. Elizaveta Nugumanova was very strong in the short too but it seemed like she was low balled because she isn't one of the chosen ones.

I really like Kamila but I wasn't super into them choosing Bolero for her this season. Still, she definitely brought her A game and it's hard to imagine her not being chosen to be on the Olympic team when the time comes. If they give her the right programs her natural artistry will truly have the chance to flourish. She definitely has the best spins right not out of the Russian ladies.

Really bummed for Elizaveta. I thought she had her mojo back. I should've known based on how shaky she was during the warm up. She didn't completely give up but once she missed both of the axels it was like her heart wasn't in it. 

I like Kolyada but he can't hold a candle to the Japanese and American men IMO.

Just watched the SP last night and the FS tonight--utterly fantastic. I too was surprised at Trusova's low SP placement--she was pretty much perfect. I wanted either her or Anna to win--damn, Anna skates so maturely for such a young skater, she has incredible grace. Just lovely work by the top three finishers. I too was bummed at Tuk's FS. Was rooting for her to place.

ETA: Trusova's choosing Plushy is odd because artistry was never his strong suit and that's where she needs to improve. That said, her SP was lovely. But still not where Kamila and Anna were artistically.

Edited January 18, 2021 by CeeBeeGee

[honeywest]

I haven’t been so disappointed in the results of Nationals in a long time.

[alexa]

I was fine with the results for ladies and men’s.  I think Bradie has shown a lot of confidence and growth, and she did a great job.  I think it was good to see Liu not get the medal again as she does have some work to do.  As for men’s, it was as expected, and I am glad Nathan kept fighting even though he seemed a little off this competition.  

[Mellowyellow]

Bradie was awesome. Totally deserved that win. She's a clever cookie. She may not have the technical firepower of the Russians and Rika (my darling) but she does everything she can to maximize points. I enjoyed both her programs although I have to say the two last season were the best for me. Loved them so much!

Alysa is charming and has so much star power. She really has "It" imo. She will make a mint if she medals at the Olympics. So very marketable! Her SP was adorable and she really sold it.

Nathan was Nathan. I always enjoy his skating. Feel a bit guilty that I expect him to make zero mistakes so this was an interesting reminder that the boy is human.

Loved loved loved Vincent's SP. I must be the lone weirdo who really likes his skating. Even last season. I find his programs highly rewatchable when they're not freaking blocked.

 

[Jeddah]

50 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Loved loved loved Vincent's SP. I must be the lone weirdo who really likes his skating. Even last season. I find his programs highly rewatchable when they're not freaking blocked.

You’re not the only one! I must be a weirdo too! His combo is fantastic, and he’s a lot more fluid than he used to be. It’s also adorable that he picked “Vincent” as his SP music.

[Jeddah]

12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Nancy wasn;t very artistic either. Or I should say the choreography by Evy Scotvold rarely showed off any artistry.

She was packaged really well, and the  judges bought it. It’s amazing what a Vera Wang costume can do for a skater.

ETA: Except for Nathan! The Vera Wang costumes for Nathan have been distracting. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Jeddah

[honeywest]

I get so annoyed at Tara and Johnny’s constant hyping of Nathan Chen that I start to resent him even though I know it’s not fair to him. (That said, I enjoyed both of his programs this weekend. But I’d rather watch Jason Brown.)

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ok this is tricky ... but anyone alarmed at Nathan Chen's weight? He looks like he's lost so much weight recently. 

Not to me. There was a shot of him working out in shorts and his legs are like tree trunks. 100% pure muscle.

Quote

Loved loved loved Vincent's SP. I must be the lone weirdo who really likes his skating. Even last season. I find his programs highly rewatchable when they're not freaking blocked.

I really liked it too. I was looking forward to his LP but then he kind of blew it.

I'm never completely relaxed watching Nathan skate. I always think of his disastrous SP at the Olympics. He's not invulnerable.

I'm so over Jason Brown. Yes he's an artistic skater and would have been unbeatable 30 years ago but today is today and skating is what it is. He's just not competitive among the top skaters 

[redpencil]

Quote

I'm so over Jason Brown. Yes he's an artistic skater and would have been unbeatable 30 years ago but today is today and skating is what it is. He's just not competitive among the top skaters 

I still enjoy watching him quite a lot, and am impressed by how well he's been able to do even internationally without a quad. But the lack of being able to land even one quad is beyond frustrating to me. I know the lack of competitions this year didn't help, but still. It's been years. I think this might be the last year he can skate by (pun not intended) at nationals without one, given what we saw from someone like Paniot (who actually beat him in the FS). I was also sad that Ilia Malinin was not here; I was very intrigued by him at Skate America.

 

Quote

You’re not the only one! I must be a weirdo too! His combo is fantastic, and he’s a lot more fluid than he used to be. It’s also adorable that he picked “Vincent” as his SP music.

I also have a big soft spot for Vincent! That combo is so great. I could watch it on a loop and not get tired of it. It might be my favorite element of any skater out there. He's definitely improved so much, and I think he now has a really nice style. And I love his reactions when he has a great skate.

Edited January 18, 2021 by redpencil

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm so over Jason Brown. Yes he's an artistic skater and would have been unbeatable 30 years ago but today is today and skating is what it is. He's just not competitive among the top skaters 

Jason Brown didn't really have strong jumping technique to begin with. I feel like strong jump technique is something that has to be instilled at a young age. If you're a senior and don;t have it (like Evgenia Medvedeva) you're probably never going to get it. Also it's kind of important to remember that OGM men including a quad began in 1998 (!!!). So he really is 20 years behind the curve.

He's a lovely skater. In the old days he would have had a great career in Stars on Ice and the other touring shows. ALas ...

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm so over Jason Brown. Yes he's an artistic skater and would have been unbeatable 30 years ago but today is today and skating is what it is. He's just not competitive among the top skaters 

He's not likely to be a World medalist at this point, but Jason does pretty well for himself; he won silver at a hotly contested Four Continents event just last year.

Skate Canada Challenge was happening as well this weekend (busy busy).  This program gave me so much joy (I do love good junior dance):

A number of senior Gadbois teams also showed up with quirky or weird programs too, including Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen's first competition in a year and a half.

For things other than dance, Roman Sadovsky had what is probably his best short program ever:

And, thank God, a really good winning ladies' free skate:

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by SeanC

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Jason Brown didn't really have strong jumping technique to begin with. I feel like strong jump technique is something that has to be instilled at a young age. If you're a senior and don;t have it (like Evgenia Medvedeva) you're probably never going to get it. Also it's kind of important to remember that OGM men including a quad began in 1998 (!!!). So he really is 20 years behind the curve.

He's a lovely skater. In the old days he would have had a great career in Stars on Ice and the other touring shows. ALas ...

Aren't Anna Scherbakova and Kamila supposed to have poor technique too (I'm only repeating what people say I'm actually a big fan of both girls), yet they can still throw out pretty impressive looking quads. 

Do you think it's because they've been drilled from a really young age to do the quads so muscle memory kicks in?

Kamila's even learnt a 3A and she has grown heaps! 

[displayname]

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Loved loved loved Vincent's SP. I must be the lone weirdo who really likes his skating. Even last season. I find his programs highly rewatchable when they're not freaking blocked.

Don't like the guy's skating. But he performed very well here.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Aren't Anna Scherbakova and Kamila supposed to have poor technique too (I'm only repeating what people say I'm actually a big fan of both girls), yet they can still throw out pretty impressive looking quads. 

Do you think it's because they've been drilled from a really young age to do the quads so muscle memory kicks in?

Kamila's even learnt a 3A and she has grown heaps! 

I think they're thought to have technique that might not get them past puberty (a typical ladies figure skating issue). But Medvedeva and Jason Brown are thought to have poor jumping technique in that their ability to fully rotate jumps on the correct edge is the issue. Yulia Lipnitskaya also had problematic jump technique. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I get so annoyed at Tara and Johnny’s constant hyping of Nathan Chen that I start to resent him even though I know it’s not fair to him. (That said, I enjoyed both of his programs this weekend. But I’d rather watch Jason Brown.)

America loves winners and Nathan is the World Champion and our only chance for an Olympic gold medal in skating.  As for the women, we have no depth. Alysia is our only chance for a medal and if she is out or chokes, there's no one, unlike the Russians and the Japanese.

 

[honeywest]

Of course that’s true. I don’t deny Nathan’s standing. I just get tired of hearing it mentioned constantly.

[annzeepark914]

I just read that NBC Sports Network is shutting down at the end of the year. USA Network will pick up what Peacock doesn't (or something like that). I sure hope USA Network gets figure skating.

[justmehere]

Came across this on Twitter - Jason Brown's program from the Las Vegas Skating Spectacular. It's in two parts due to Twitter limitations (both under the same link). I think this is what he did in the Peggy Fleming artistic competition last year, but the view wasn't the greatest. The song is called "Melancholy" and it's been altered into black & white with commentary removed.

Exquisite:

https://twitter.com/skatetocarmen/status/1352780314305769472

And here is the source, on Instagram, in color, w/commentary. I prefer the B&W, but this one offers a lovely introduction:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CKWNM71pTWO/?igshid=9w9l948ut843

[peachmangosteen]

Is the Las Vegas Skating Spectacular what they're showing on NBC on Saturday?

[emmawoodhouse]

34 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Is the Las Vegas Skating Spectacular what they're showing on NBC on Saturday?

My guide entitles it "Best of." Filmed in Vegas. So, absolutely no help. 😁