Figure Skating

[carrier76]

I have always thought Tursynbaeva has looked anorexic. I am surprised it hasn’t been mentioned here until lately. I have always felt uncomfortable watching her with her twiglike arms and legs, and now she’s being rewarded for these “quads.” Every time I have watched her skate through the years, I have wondered why someone isn’t helping her be more healthy. Also, her long program music grates.

I know it’s cool around here to hate on Vincent Zhou, but I thought he was fantastic here. To my eyes, I only saw one UR in his long, and it was the one apparently got dinged for? I am not sure why everyone hates him so much. He went out and got the job done. I cannot stomach Hanyu, but even I can admit he went out there and threw down. Chen was like a wizard. I want to watch that program again and again.

I hope Johnny is excited about the amount of times he found ways to overenuciate any Russian last name he could. And I’m not sure if Tara is under a contractual obligation to say the words QUAD REVOLUTION every time Jin Boyang skates, but just in case, I have a few names for her: Brian Joubert. Alexei Yagudin. Evgeni Plushenko. Timothy Goebel. Sheesh.

[displayname]

25 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

And I’m not sure if Tara is under a contractual obligation to say the words QUAD REVOLUTION every time Jin Boyang skates, but just in case, I have a few names for her: Brian Joubert. Alexei Yagudin. Evgeni Plushenko. Timothy Goebel. Sheesh. 

You forgot the original quad guy: Kurt Browning.

But Tara Lipinski, although she should shut up and is probably not doing a great job explaining why, is correct. He was the first one to land do a 2 quad program cleanly first, the first to do a 4 quad LP cleanly internationally, and the first to go for 6 overall. Every (top) guy started 2-4+ layouts after that apart from Fernandez and Chan. Of the ones you mentioned, I believe only Tim Goebel went for something new with his 3 quad LP.

Edited March 24, 2019 by displayname

[SeanC]

45 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

I have always thought Tursynbaeva has looked anorexic. I am surprised it hasn’t been mentioned here until lately. I have always felt uncomfortable watching her with her twiglike arms and legs, and now she’s being rewarded for these “quads.” Every time I have watched her skate through the years, I have wondered why someone isn’t helping her be more healthy. Also, her long program music grates.

Tursynbaeva just looks naturally tiny to me.

[SeanC]

21 minutes ago, displayname said:

You forgot the original quad guy: Kurt Browning.

But Tara Lipinski, although she should shut up and is probably not doing a great job explaining why, is correct. He was the first one to land do a 2 quad program cleanly first, the first to do a 4 quad LP cleanly internationally, and the first to go for 6 overall. Every (top) guy started 2-4+ layouts after that apart from Fernandez and Chan. Of the ones you mentioned, I believe only Tim Goebel went for something new with his 3 quad LP.

Jin specifically set off the arms race for the so-called “trick” quads by doing the quad Lutz with positive GOE for the first time and fairly consistently.  

The quad toe had been around for 25 years at that point, the Salchow for fifteen, but within a few years of Jin’s quad Lutz you had Uno debuting the quad flip and Hanyu the quad loop.

[displayname]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Jin specifically set off the arms race for the so-called “trick” quads by doing the quad Lutz with positive GOE for the first time and fairly consistently.   

The quad toe had been around for 25 years at that point, the Salchow for fifteen, but within a few years of Jin’s quad Lutz you had Uno debuting the quad flip and Hanyu the quad loop. 

Well, yes. Once he showed them he could get one consistent, and do 6 quad attempts with it, the BV he got out of it, the quad race was off. Hanyu and Uno both said that, I believe. He really did do a lot for the technical advancement of the sport.

Edited March 24, 2019 by displayname

[Jeddah]

I’m not really understanding the complaints about only young girls being able to do quads. Tyrsynbaeva is 19. She’s an adult who can do a quad.

[ML89]

4 hours ago, Enero said:

Will ladies ever get there? Or have they plateaued and the most difficult technical content we’ll see from them are the 3/3s?

Gabby Daleman is known for her triple toe triple toe and that was Debi Thomas's stock in trade in 1988. I think the problem is, as several folks have stated, the "powers" want skinny girls and you're going to need girls with muscles to do the jumps. Someone's going to have to break through with a different style but I haven't seen that person yet.

I was thinking about that when Tanith White said on that Olympics daily show that she and Ben's programs from 2010 have been left in the dust in ice dance. I was thinking as I watched that that you could take the tech content from Tara or Sarah Hughes or Slute or Kwan, add some transitions, and they'd still win.

14 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Now that the season is finished, was was everyone’s favorite new discovery? Mine was, hands down, Lilah Fear and Lewis Gibson and their disco/‘70s free dance. So much fun, and absolute commitment to the choreography and performance. I really look forward to seeing how they progress during this next Olympic cycle.

I LOVE that program! I hope they do a sequel. They're also my new faves, along with Manta/Johnson of the US after the Sweet Dreams program. Anyone not doing floaty, love programs - soft pastel as someone said above, perfect! - is someone I like. As for the other disciplines, I don't have new people this time around. I want to see some different types of programs. I liked Zhou last year when he and Craine of Australia skated to different parts of Moulin Rouge. I like Nathan's music choices for the most part and some of Jason's, although he needs to get a fresh style. 

I was so impressed that Terry reeled off the older French stars when talking about the new French guy and I realized how much I missed the sheer nuttiness of Candeloro and Tobel. We need more skating like that, not everyone trying to be the same. I know it's probably blasphemy, but Hanyu bores me.

Edited March 24, 2019 by ML89

[annzeepark914]

9 minutes ago, ML89 said:

I LOVE that program! I hope they do a sequel. They're also my new faves, along with Manta/Johnson of the US after the Sweet Dreams program. Anyone not doing floaty, love programs - soft pastel as someone said above, perfect! - is someone I like. As for the other disciplines, I don't have new people this time around. I want to see some different types of programs. I liked Zhou last year when he and Craine of Australia skated to different parts of Moulin Rouge. I like Nathan's music choices for the most part and some of Jason's, although he needs to get a fresh style. 

I was so impressed that Terry reeled off the older French stars when talking about the new French guy and I realized how much I missed the sheer nuttiness of Candeloro and Tobel. We need more skating like that, not everyone trying to be the same. I know it's probably blasphemy, but Hanyu bores me.

Bring back the fun to ice dance (and the rest of figure skating programs as well).  Loved the disco FD. Every time I see G/P, I think of that wonderful disco medley they skated to, and Paul's huge mustache and big hair.  And, of course, Phillipe dueling his way down the rink.  These people make/made skating competitions interesting, esp to folks who don't follow it throughout the season. I'd sure like to see H/D and P/C move away from the soft pastel programs and do something, anything different!

[Libby96]

17 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Bring back the fun to ice dance (and the rest of figure skating programs as well).  Loved the disco FD. Every time I see G/P, I think of that wonderful disco medley they skated to, and Paul's huge mustache and big hair.  And, of course, Phillipe dueling his way down the rink.  These people make/made skating competitions interesting, esp to folks who don't follow it throughout the season. I'd sure like to see H/D and P/C move away from the soft pastel programs and do something, anything different!

It would be great to see more variety of styles!  But as long as P/C keep winning competitions by 20 points every time they step on the ice, they will just keep putting out more of the same.  I’m curious to see if this scoring pattern will just continue through the next Olympics, or if the gap between them and the rest of the field will begin to close.

[Growsonwalls]

I found this interview online of Evgenia, translated here. Yikes at what she says about Eteri and what she wasn't allowed to eat or drink.

https://rsport.ria.ru/20190323/1552048816.html

EV: The pressure during the ladies competition in Saitama was obvious. How did you take it and how was your skate?
EM: It was over so fast. I was skating first in my group, which is unusual for me- am more used being one of the last. After the draw I as a bit upset about it and was thinking how will it work? And then understood it was working for the best. I mean during the 6 minutes warm up I didn't really do much - I was in too much pain.

EV: Were you injured?
EM: I didn't even understand what happened. We didn't speak to the doctors, but since I feel better today I guess it's nothing major. Just that my leg hurt really badly before the LP. So badly I had to switch on the `animal mode' and pull all my fighting qualities together. I wouldn't say the LP skate was super hard - physically, yes, because I had to overcome the pain.

EV: It seemed to me your only technical mistake - the underotation of the 2A was because you were going too fast into the jump.
EM: I don't know. I wasn't really thinking while skating. I just felt.

EV: You were skating in autopilot?
EM: Not quite. I was controlling every move. But `controlling' and `thinking' are different things. It's one thing controlling your body - how to move the arm or lift the head. A different thinking of the speed `am I going too fast? If am going too fast what does it mean? What will happen if..' Such thoughts are a dead end. You might as well stop right there and not skate.

EV: When you knew for sure you medalled one of the Russian coaches said `No one except for Zhenya herself believed she can do it'. Were you feeling that lack of belief in you?
EM: I assume there probably are people who did not believe in me, but I don't mind. I know I have Brian and Tracey and the `Cricket Club' team, Jason Brown, who became a true friend and someone to lean on. Am surrounded by so many amazing people.

EV: It's unusual in your sports.
EM: True! Am so lucky. I was really luck that my life changed so much after the Olympics and I found all these people. Am so grateful to Misha Ge, who I've known for a long time. In general I felt quite confident this competition. It's very important feeling not only the coaching support, but the human support. Those people, who don't really need anything from you, but you know they are behind you.

EV: In Russia you spent many years in a very strict conditions. Was it scary to learn once you moved to Canada that figure skating might be so different?
EM: OF course. For example there was a period when I was afraid to learn I can decide on the amount of practices, I can pick the road to my goal. I was afraid to pick the easiest.

EV: Were you tempted?
EM: I'll be true. A human always chooses the easiest path. There were moments when I was weak.

EV: You mean the weight you gained?
EM: The weight and the work - I was not always able to remain in the strict boundaries, though that wasn't really hard - after all am used to work hard during the practices. I needed time to learn I shouldn't be afraid. Because first am surrounded by people who will advice if things go wrong and second - am not a person to drop things in the middle.

EV: During that time were there moments when you didn't believe things will work out?
EM: Frankly? Yes. After the SP at the Nationals, for example. After the GP in France. The SP in Skate Canada was a big disappointment - it was really hard to set myself to keep skating at the competition. I spent the whole night with no sleep, lost 2.5 kilos. But think all that made me stronger.

EV: Were you afraid after the Russian Cup, when the Worlds became real? You probably understood after such a season you had no longer had a right to make a mistake?
EM: I understood all that. But I was not afraid, I was confident. And very focused. We - the whole team- worked so much for that competition. If you only knew how much Jason Brown, Yuzu Hanyu, Cha Jun-hwan work! Really, it's something you need to see - how hard they work in the practices. After such work there was no way one would skate badly.
On the other hand the athletes are always hesitating about some things. No one really knows what we are capable of. Hence there is never a 100% certainty. The only thing that I was not worried about, but kept under the control - not to let the nerves get over me at the right moment.

EV: Do you mind the medal you took is bronze and not gold?
EM: Not at all. I was standing on the podium and thinking I overcame myself. The girls who beat me - kudos to them and I know how much Alina and Elizabeth had worked. They are pushing our sport and it's amazing.
Just that for me the Worlds were a competition where I did't compare my result to the others. The same as comparing this competition to the rest of the season. It's uncomparable. And am proud of myself.

EV: Are you serious?
EM: totally. I think I learn a very important lesson. Every athlete goes to a competition thinking of a victory. It's the right thing. Just that the definition of `victory' is different - depending on the circumstances. Taking these circumstances -I won. The Worlds were a special competition and the colour of the medal is not important.

EV: When in the middle of the season you decided to give up the SP that was created by Sandra Bezic and David Wilson were you feeling uncomfortable with them?
EM: It's a decision we made together - the whole team. Sandra supports me so much, so does David. They both, even before I did, realized that programme demanded too much changes, which I was not yet ready for. It was hard to deal with all the tasks at once. There were no hard feelings.

EV: In the press room after the Ladies competition you could hear `Zhenya is back!'. Do you agree you are back to the state when you were coming out there competing and not worried at all about the result?
EM: It's different. Am still learning to control that state. The worlds became a point of no return. Am sure from here it will only improve. Brian, Tracey and I know how to communicate, work, reach the goals. I changed yet stayed the same and it's all - me. I can't say am missing what stayed in the past. I used to take all the competitions the same.

EV: The cage opens - off you go?
EM: More or less. Now it's so much richer and colourful. There are new feelings. Perhaps I still have stuff to explore - there are still situations in which am not certain what to expect, but I like moving in that direction, learning, growing. It happens contiously. Like it happens in the finals. If I was not mad before the LP, if I did not turn my inner energy there was no such a result.

EV: How hard was the 13 hours difference in Saitama?
EM: How is it special? Osmond took the bronze at the Olympics in Korea. She was skating with the same time difference there.

EV: There is more time to overcome the jetlag at the Olympics.
EM: I don't think anyone cares. The only important thing is how do you skate when you go out there. The rest is redundant. From my experience: the jetlag catches me when I start thinking about it. Sleeping badly and waking up early happens back in Canada as well.

EV: How important is the weight control for you now?
EM: I control all that I eat - I started thinking about it a year ago - right after the Olympics. Prior to that there was no control at all: sometimes I would just grab one snack of chocolate the whole day. I was constantly afraid I'll get on the weight and there will be an additional 100gr. I work closely with a nuitrician who Brian recommended and think less of what do I see on the weight, but the BMI. Even in the Russian Cup in Novogorsk I was told many saw the difference in my body, I look more athletic. Even though I don't quite agree yet.

EV: What do you mean?
EM: I don't yet have a body I want to have. In order to learn the harder jumps the body must be like machine. And I'll have it. I just need time and patience. Melissa, the nutritionist, has a huge experience working with the Canadian ballet dancers. During the time we have been working together the amount of fat went down and amount of muscle increased. The weight remained the same.

EV: Were you worried when you started gaining weight after the Olympics?
EM: I understood I can overcome all my eating problems just by actually eating. When you keep a very strict diet for many years, basically go hungry for a long while you need time to come to a conclusion if there is food in the fridge you don't need to finish it at once. It will still be in the fridge next time. Once I understood it the weight started getting back to normal.
I was never a big fan of pastry, a place of blueberries is much taster. And is better for the ligaments, lifts the spirits and just 200 calories for a bucket, so to say. I can't say I count the calories all the time, but I switched to the portioned food. All the changes in my body that people notice are mainly thanks to that.

EV: What was the toughest time weight wise for you?
EM: The Olympic season. I knew I had to be as `dry' as possible. I weighted in Korea 1.5kg less than a year before that at the Worlds in Helsinki. It was a hard time, but I had no choice. Otherwise I would simply not be able to skate that programme. I didn't have much muscles, which caused the body to keep the water. You become `heavy' and `swell'. Hence it was really tough and I did damage my body. Fortunately, now it's all behind me.

EV: I think you know better than me how rapidly the ladies skating changes and what do you need to do to keep up. Any ideas?
EM: Of course. We spoke about it with Brian and Tracey. My idea of longlivety in the figure skating does not mean I'll keep skating the SP with a 3f3t forever. I will learn the harder jumps, a higher content, work on the other aspects.

EV: Can you be more detailed?
EM: I'd rather not. Why rush it?

EV: How active are you in the social networks right now?
EM: Not that active. I taught myself to spend less time there and it's a good thing. I stopped mending with nonsense, worry less what other think about me. I really stopped minding the others point of view. Of course there are things that might hurt me, but it's not that stuff that is written on the internet. I used to mind. Not anymore. Those who post the comments on instagram never made any decisions for me and they never will.

EV: Who was the most unusual person you met this year, outside the skating?
EM: I dwell deeply in the music after the Olympics. First I met Kris Kostov - we were taking part in a TV show together. I met Yuri Pack there, his singing name is Haru. I.e. I was suddenly surrounded by the singers and musicians. Which was great - prior to that I was deeply in KPop and was only listening to the Korean music.
Now among my favourite songs, for example, is `Shallow' by Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper, i.e. my musical taste expanded. I can even hold a conversation about the music now.

EV: The known athletes are often invited to participate the popular TV shows. You did some. Is there a project you'd like to take part now?
EM: The project I want to participate the most is the 2022 Olympics. Nothing is more important in my life right now.

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, carrier76 said:

I know it’s cool around here to hate on Vincent Zhou, but I thought he was fantastic here.

I thought he was fantastic here as well.  Is he the overall best skater?  No, but he gave the performance when all the others (Except for Hanyu and Chen) did not.

If the Skating PTB want to make women's quads a thing, watch all the female skaters become smaller and thinner (and some unscrupulous coaches/people will give them substances to keep them from hitting puberty).  I'd rather see artistry over jumps that are not scored strictly enough.

[carrier76]

I just really like Evgenia. She seems like she’s got a good head on her shoulders.

[Snow Apple]

I've been binging on videos from the 80's and 90's and was reminded how artistic and joyful the skaters were (at least on the outside). The tired old music seemed fresh because the skaters put their own personalities into it. The difference then and now is shocking and sad. Even the audience seem so much more enthusiastic. I also miss Uncle Dick and Peggy Flemming. 

I think Jason Brown would have thrived in those eras.

[Jaded]

I know what I'm going to post has probably been mentioned previously in this thread in regards to figure skating on TV in the 90's. 

From 1994–1997 CBS lost the rights to air the NFL games to FOX so they had airtime to fill which coincided with the uptick of people interested in skating due to the Nancy/Tanya drama. After the 94 Olympics there were a lot of different kinds of shows that came about during that time and skaters that had been retired for awhile even came back for the professional skating events which are pretty much non-existent now. Stars on Ice was on TV each year which was especially nice for people like me who didn't live near any city where the tour ever visited. I loved Ice Wars, Too Hot To Skate and I think there was a Battle of the Sexes show around that time too. Those few were off the top of my head.

Remembering those years where skating was so very accessible on TV makes times like these where it's so scarce especially frustrating. The clip below was the first one I found when searching Too Hot To Skate I had forgotten until I saw it that there were ice rinks created outside for it. The Las Vegas casinos can be seen well during Michelle's Pocahontas program in the 2nd half of the clip.
 

[healthnut]

Wasn’t Michael Weiss always trying the quad lutz and two footing it every time? I never understood why he didn’t just do a toe or salchow. 

I agree the US needs a female star to spark casual interest again. It sure as heck isn’t Bradie or Mariah. Nathan won’t do it anymore than Evan did in 2009/2010. It’s gotta be a lady. 

[annzeepark914]

46 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

I just really like Evgenia. She seems like she’s got a good head on her shoulders.

Me too.  I'm glad she was brave enough to leave Eteri & Russia, and gave Brian a chance to work with her. Whether she wins gold in Beijing or not, her life is being changed in a good way. She even looks so much better today.

[HartofDixie]

TSL World Men’s recap with Joe Inman.

[redpencil]

3 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I’m not really understanding the complaints about only young girls being able to do quads. Tyrsynbaeva is 19. She’s an adult who can do a quad.

Yes, but her body type is more similar to the young girls doing them. If I didn't know anything about her I would think she was years younger than she is.

[Jeddah]

19 minutes ago, redpencil said:

Yes, but her body type is more similar to the young girls doing them. If I didn't know anything about her I would think she was years younger than she is.

But she is 19. Everyone seems to be saying only little girls can do quads. That isn’t true. It just makes me really uncomfortable that everyone is talking about her body like she’s a child.

I try very hard not to judge these skaters’ bodies. If someone is short and thin and can do a quad, who am I to complain about the way she looks?

[Growsonwalls]

I once saw a group of figure skaters and I could not believe how tiny ALL of them are. The female pair skaters are about as short or shorter than female gymnasts. They look tinier actually because of their incredibly slim build. The male singers skaters are in general short, thin, with narrow hips and waist. The skaters we think of as "big" on TV ... tiny. 

So ... I don;t think we should say that only teens can do quads. I think in general figure skating favors small, slim bodies. The problem is when coaches try to make these already slim, tiny bodies even slimmer with the restrictive eating rules. That leads to injuries and eating disorders. Focus should be on technique, and edge control. If you think of the great jumpers of the past and present what they had was edge control. 

[Ruby Gillis]

7 hours ago, Enero said:

If you’re referring to it’s popularity in the U.S. I believe that was mostly attributed to the Tonya/Nancy fiasco. There was interest before but that incident heightened interest exponentially I think, all the way through the height of the Kwan era, which was the mid-late 90s, through the early 2000s before it started to wane. 

I think the reason why the popularity of FS has diminished in the U.S. is in part due to there not being a superstar FEMALE figure skater or two and sadly no controversy to boost interest. 

The sport appears to still be very popular in Europe and Asia, but then over the past decade or so they’ve had quite a few successful competitors which undoubtedly increased the interest that was already there in the sport.

Agree that Nancy/Tonya helped make the sport really popular but it was already on the rise with Kristi Yamaguchi in 1992.  After Tonya was banned and Nancy wasn't really a star on the pro tour, Surya was one of the highest paid skaters.  I feel like Elvis Stojka, Gordeeva and Grinkov, Ilia Kulik, Usova/Zhulin/Platov were always on TV in the professional competitions and fairly popular when I was growing up.  Americans are capable of appreciating other skaters if NBC would let us be!

Also, Kwan and Sasha Cohen were so popular because of their artistry, not because they won gold medals.  Are there many Tara Lipinski or Sarah Hughes superfans out there?  

6 hours ago, Darknight said:

It turned me off seeing Evgenia get away with poor technique for two seasons. 

Totally agree.  Also, all that pantomime.  

[Darknight]

30 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

But she is 19. Everyone seems to be saying only little girls can do quads. That isn’t true. It just makes me really uncomfortable that everyone is talking about her body like she’s a child.

I try very hard not to judge these skaters’ bodies. If someone is short and thin and can do a quad, who am I to complain about the way she looks?

Sadly judges do judge skaters bodies. Which is why I said a body that can help ladies like Simone Biles wouldn't be accepted. I forgot how old Lizbeth is. She is 19. However, Eteri encourages starving and not eating to do quads. Depending on fast rotation.  The majority of ladies right now doing quads are young girls with the exception of Elizabet who's young body benefits her and coach encourages unhealthy eating habits. I'm worried about her kids. Quads are already dangerous and many men get injured from them. Strength and healthy eating habits are important. 

Elizabet was actually working on quads for years until she moved to Canada. She came back to Eteri during summers. I'm not against ladies learning quads. I'm against starving skaters and depending on their small bodies to do quads. Proper technique is important. Your skates should at least leave the ice. 

[Darknight]

I was just watching Nancy in her skating days and she was such a diva. I forgot how much of a diva she was. Especially on that Disney trip. Shut up and collect your money. 

 Imagine if Scott and Tessa come back. Kaitlyn and Andrew I actually felt bad for them at times. Who is their coach now? 

Any update on Lim and Mariah? 

[Growsonwalls]

Here are some exemplars of triple axel technique. What impresses me about these jumps is:

1) How much height they all get, with clear visible rotations in the air

2) How much control they have over the landing

Not saying these were perfect skaters, but just look at how they jump:

[Growsonwalls]

6 minutes ago, Darknight said:

I was just watching Nancy in her skating days and she was such a diva. I forgot how much of a diva she was. Especially on that Disney trip. Shut up and collect your money. 

 Imagine if Scott and Tessa come back. Kaitlyn and Andrew I actually felt bad for them at times. Who is their coach now? 

Any update on Lim and Mariah? 

Well I always felt for Nancy because the media completely concocted this ice princess persona of her which was so far from the truth I'm not surprised she got cranky and snippy. We later found out Nancy's family had a lot of personal demons and tragedies. 

Also, in the 90's I think the "thing" was for female skaters to be divas. I was thinking about this when I recently saw Oksana "Pasha" Grishuk's on Instagram. The big drama ice queen of the 1990's is now a very normal looking doting mom. She wears almost no makeup and looks like that nice lady you might meet at your child's parent teacher conference.

[HartofDixie]

For Ice Dance - 2 hours of the Technical Committee explaining the requirements for next season.

Rhythm Dance is Musical/Operetta

Jukebox musicals like Mamma Mia are accepted.

Finnstep must be done on Quickstep, Charleston or Swing. Then, immediately, they have to do a Pattern dance type step sequence on the same rhythm chosen for the Finnstep.

Ladies can wear trousers.

https://youtu.be/RKPv2koFT_Q

[stet]

5 hours ago, ML89 said:

I was so impressed that Terry reeled off the older French stars when talking about the new French guy and I realized how much I missed the sheer nuttiness of Candeloro and Tobel. We need more skating like that, not everyone trying to be the same.

Kévin Aymoz was my revelation this season. His SP was the spiritual successor to Fernández’s “Black Betty” - sexy, playful, dorky, and energetic. And his FS was mesmerizing. I love his signature moves - that cartwheel-type thing, and the slidey thing that he calls the JZ Slide, because his coach John Zimmerman taught it to him.

Aymoz is only 5’3”, but he skates big. Also, he was the 2016 French baton-twirling champion - and it’s so cool that he adapted many of those moves to the ice. 

And I loved the Disco Brits, and Manta and Johnson! (And I miss the ShibSibs.) Think back to the 2002 Olympic dance medalists (heck, the top five) - I could imagine any of those free dances being skated by sibling teams without any ick factor. But alas, times have changed... 😕

And thanks to everyone who explained quads versus 3As, and the body compositions that lend themselves best to each. I’ve been thinking ... men who consistently do quads tend to be under 5’8” - if I’m not mistaken, Hanyu and Fernández were the tallest of the last Olympic quad’s “Big Six,” at 5’7”. Was Lysacek ever capable of doing a quad? (Honestly, I’m a mean bish and happy there’s a sport where tall dudes are now irrelevant.)

[Enero]

1 hour ago, Ruby Gillis said:

Also, Kwan and Sasha Cohen were so popular because of their artistry, not because they won gold medals.  Are there many Tara Lipinski or Sarah Hughes superfans out there?  

Totally agree.  Also, all that pantomime.  

I don’t think Kwan and Cohen being remembered (and popularity) is/was solely based on the beauty of their skating. Kwan was the top U.S. figure skater period for a decade. Her reign included 5 world championships (something no lady has done in recent years, two Olympic appearances and 9 National Championships). Of course she is remembered and not just for her artistry. Skaters admire her success. She competed for a very long time. Similarly Sasha competed and was one of the top contenders in  the sport for at least 6-7 years. That’s not to discount these ladies accomplishments and the artistry they brought to the sport but they are remembered mostly  because they stuck around. IMO.

If Tara hadn’t blew out her hip and continued competing for another Olympic cycle or two, trading off titles with Kwan she’d be remembered and idolized by many as well. IMO. Same with Hughes. But these ladies left the sport before they made an impact. 

I’d be curious to know how Slutskaya is viewed by the the current and up and coming Russian ladies? She was in the sport just as long or longer than Kwan and though she wasn’t an artist she did have quite a bit of success and as stated earlier literally changed how the Biellmann was viewed which in turn effected the rules of the sport. She also pushed the sport with her jump combinations. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Enero

[Growsonwalls]

48 minutes ago, stet said:

And thanks to everyone who explained quads versus 3As, and the body compositions that lend themselves best to each. I’ve been thinking ... men who consistently do quads tend to be under 5’8” - if I’m not mistaken, Hanyu and Fernández were the tallest of the last Olympic quad’s “Big Six,” at 5’7”. Was Lysacek ever capable of doing a quad? (Honestly, I’m a mean bish and happy there’s a sport where tall dudes are now irrelevant.)

Evgeny Plushenko was 5'10".

Alexei Yagudin was 5'9".

Ilia Kulik was 5'11".

All of them could land quads although the quad requirements back then were different than they are now. Plushenko was the first (???) to do the quad/triple/triple combo. But then again all these men got great height and distance and power in their jumps.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Growsonwalls

[Mellowyellow]

I have this sinking feeling Junliet is just too tall. He's been limping around off ice. I know he's only young but if he grows past 180cm that can't help his cause. 

***

Eteri referenced Zhenya leaving in passing which has caused a sh#t storm between fans and antis. A year has passed, things have died down and now looks like it's going to rev up again. 

She also disclosed that Alina was thinking of withdrawing from Worlds something that imo was completely unnecessary to divulge since haters are just waiting to jump on the poor kid. 

Seriously the two teenagers who have suffered the most in this endless drama have been nothing but graceful and drama free in their conduct. 

Eteri should be ashamed of herself. 

***

Speaking of my two favourites (along with Rika and Bradie) it looks like both Alina and Zhenya are coming back next year. 

I'm really glad Zhenya medalled because I think this will buy her some time with Rusfed to improve her technique and settle those jumps. Even if she does badly against the crop of juniors who are moving up, at least she won't fade into oblivion due to the recent medal.

And then the future is anyone's to predict. If she's strong and can improve her tech anything can happen. 

Alina I'm worried about because I don't feel like she's in as good an environment as Zhenya.

***

Upon rewatching it seems that Mie Hamada, Rika's coach, was watching Vincent skate. She hugged his coaches right after his final skate! 

[MaKaM]

I feel like, unless they go to a more "cafeteria" approach to the long program, women's (and even men's to a point) are going to stagnate. Okay, all the top guys are doing quads, next generation will be doing all quads and no triples, 10 position spins that go at a snail's pace, etc. Unless you provide options for someone to do a 3-3-3 combo without using up one of their 2 uses of a jump or maybe letting someone do doubles but have lots of spins or whatever the person's strength is, everything is going to keep looking the same. The one thing I hate that the scoring system has killed is the step sequence. Everyone is so focused on hitting all the different rockers, brackets, bobbing up and down across the ice that it just doesn't have the impact it used to. Someone mentioned Candeloro and he was able to create a character in the step sequence. Michelle Kwan's Tosca step sequence is still my favorite ever and it conveyed the power of the music and character. Shizuka Arakawa's Ina Bauer was iconic and created a moment. These days, everything is almost rote. There is no need to try to create a character because once you are in the top group, your PCS are all going to be in the 8s-9s no matter what you do (or if you are the top ice dancers, 10s) so who even cares? There is no way to linger over an amazing skill because you have to quick hit the next position to get more points.

I haven't been watching much (not paying for that NBC Gold thing and haven't cared much since Yuna Kim retired) but does anyone do a Charlotte or a Kerrigan spiral or an Ina Bauer any more? I know we all got sick of spiral sequences when they a requirement but if a skater could choose to substitute another skill or be given a freebie spin that doesn't have to hit a five positions for five revolutions each for max value. Frankly, even with new jumping beans with quads, skating has gotten boring. The only skaters taking risks are the lower ranked ones and then there is no reward for those risks so everyone else just keeps going to the same Carmen, pastel skating (thank you for whoever called it that, it is so on point).

Edited March 25, 2019 by MaKaM

[redpencil]

31 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Upon rewatching it seems that Mie Hamada, Rika's coach, was watching Vincent skate. She hugged his coaches right after his final skate! 

Vincent has apparently worked with her quite a bit. So she wasn't there randomly. I wonder if he'll be working with her even more given her being at the boards for him.

[Growsonwalls]

5 hours ago, MaKaM said:

I haven't been watching much (not paying for that NBC Gold thing and haven't cared much since Yuna Kim retired) but does anyone do a Charlotte or a Kerrigan spiral or an Ina Bauer any more? 

Alina Zagitova's trademark is actually a Charlotte.

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, Darknight said:

The biggest reason why skating isn't popular here is because you can't find anywhere to watch it. ISU currently thinks it's ok to keep pulling videos. They don't believe in keeping up with current times. 

This! I've wanted to watch skating for years but it was never shown in my area. Even on the rare times it was scheduled they always ended up showing something else. I only finally got to watch the last two seasons because of the Olympic channel.  How can fans watch when they can't get access to it? I had the same problem with gymnastics. If not for the Olympic channel I wouldn't get to see any of that either.

I liked both Ladies and Men's competition. There are so many competing that I really like Brady, Mariah, Rika Kihira, Kaori Sakamoto, Lim Eun-Soo, Evgenia Medvedea, Elizabet Tursynbaeva, and Alina Zagitova.  I love Rika's and Karoi's skating they are just so good. I really liked Bradie's and Mariah's and Lim. Alina struggled all season it was nice to see she finally pulled it off. She'd do so much better with a better coach.

Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu, Vincent Zhou, Shoma Uno, Jin Boyang, and the first Russian mens skater Mikhail I don't remember his last name but I loved his routine. He looked like he was having so much fun and it was really cute. I'm glad Nathan won,
Yuzuru got second and Vincent third. I would have been just as happy  if Yuzuru won or Vincent. I just like them all so much.

I really wish they'd replace Johnny and Tara. The never ending fan talk of the Russians is annoying. Johnny in particular just goes on and on and on. I finally ended up muting most of the competition because they would not shut up.

Can't wait to see next season! 

[carrier76]

I hope we are done with Chicago programs for awhile. Mariah did the same cut for two years, and I thought we were finally done with “Roxie HART!” But then Lim picked it up. Speaking of....her expression needs some work.

[Darknight]

12 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I have this sinking feeling Junliet is just too tall. He's been limping around off ice. I know he's only young but if he grows past 180cm that can't help his cause. 

***

Eteri referenced Zhenya leaving in passing which has caused a sh#t storm between fans and antis. A year has passed, things have died down and now looks like it's going to rev up again. 

She also disclosed that Alina was thinking of withdrawing from Worlds something that imo was completely unnecessary to divulge since haters are just waiting to jump on the poor kid. 

Seriously the two teenagers who have suffered the most in this endless drama have been nothing but graceful and drama free in their conduct. 

Eteri should be ashamed of herself. 

***

Speaking of my two favourites (along with Rika and Bradie) it looks like both Alina and Zhenya are coming back next year. 

I'm really glad Zhenya medalled because I think this will buy her some time with Rusfed to improve her technique and settle those jumps. Even if she does badly against the crop of juniors who are moving up, at least she won't fade into oblivion due to the recent medal.

And then the future is anyone's to predict. If she's strong and can improve her tech anything can happen. 

Alina I'm worried about because I don't feel like she's in as good an environment as Zhenya.

***

Upon rewatching it seems that Mie Hamada, Rika's coach, was watching Vincent skate. She hugged his coaches right after his final skate! 

Eteri is a grown woman. She needs to cut it out. Yes, I'm sure it's painful to have your skater leave you that you raised. I don't believe she ever thought Evgenia would leave her. They were like mother and daughter. But skaters leave their coaches all the time. What if her current up and coming seniors leave? She is very manipulative and does things for publicity. She needs to get over it. I don't believe Alina would withdraw. Eteri would push her to skate. Everything she does is typical Soviet style behavior. I just saw Alina's Instagram with Eteri's birthday post and it's obvious Alina didn't write that post. I guess people calling her a skating God is going to her head. She is getting worse by the year. I hope if Alina leaves, she is not bashed. She bashes all of her students that leave her. What do you expect Eteri? Their bodies break down and they burn out. 

Vincent should work with Mie full time and move to Japan. Mie works so well with Rika. 

I fully agree longstivy is needed in the report to keep viewers. Who wants to see new faces every year to replace old ones?  I remember seeing Yulia in 2014 and loved her girl in the redcoat program. Sadly, when she left skating I was sad. I was somewhat attached to Karen but right now she isn't competing. Polina Edmunds was suppose to carry figure skating but she only did one year in senior. I can't get attached to Eteri skaters because they don't last. I'm fully attached to Alina and Alena but it sucks they will not last long.

Michelle had a long career and kept coming back. Hanyu is also popular for this reason. People are attached to see their favorites. It's not the same without them. Similar to Biles for gymnastics and Phelps for swimming. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Darknight

[Darknight]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

This! I've wanted to watch skating for years but it was never shown in my area. Even on the rare times it was scheduled they always ended up showing something else. I only finally got to watch the last two seasons because of the Olympic channel.  How can fans watch when they can't get access to it? I had the same problem with gymnastics. If not for the Olympic channel I wouldn't get to see any of that either.

I really wish they'd replace Johnny and Tara. The never ending fan talk of the Russians is annoying. Johnny in particular just goes on and on and on. I finally ended up muting most of the competition because they would not shut up.

Can't wait to see next season! 

Please let bbc or eurosport heck even Tatiana replace Johnny and Tara. When Liu becomes a senior it's going to get worse. Look, out Russians we have Liu. Then will if she fails, it's what happened. 

I'm jealous Russia and Japan dedicate full channels and magazines to their skaters. They even show skaters from other countries. USA never shows athletes from other countries. I was pissed during the Olympics they always hype athetes up. As if Hanyu wasn't Chen's biggest competitor or Mirai would actually medal even with her 3a. 

[Chaser]

I got into figure skating after the Nagano games. I remember watching the whole Grand Prix on ESPN. Now I have to find a live stream or watching the performances after on youtube or something. 

[HartofDixie]

TSL World Ice Dance recap with Mark Hanretty.

[Darknight]

Just read Hanyu didn't fully recover from his ankle injury. He needs to relax and take a break. He is not superman. Please Hanyu relax yourself and keep yourself healthy. 

[ChicksDigScars]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:45 PM, backgroundnoise said:

Does anyone know if NBCSN is ever going to show the Free Dance?

Keep an eye on The Olympic Channel's prime time line up the next couple of weeks. They tend to show competitions after the fact. Last year, they were the go-to for live coverage, before NBC decided to make a money grab and charge for streaming coverage this season. 

LOVED Fear and Gibson. Thanks for posting. I notice that they kept the Michael Jackson cut in the routine. It was probably too late to change it. The UCLA gymnast who had gotten perfect 10's and became a You Tube sensation with her floor routine this season, took the MJ sections out after the Leaving Neverland scandal.  Probably easier to do with a floor exercise than a full free dance or long program. 

[specialj67]

NBC has ruined domestic coverage for international skating events. It’s hard to generate interest or viewership when you air content at weird times, and often only parts of some events, and put nearly all of it behind at least one paywall. I know I stopped watching regularly for a couple of years after ESPN gave up the broadcast rights for ISU events, because NBC made it impossible for me to legally watch stuff in an affordable way. 

[annzeepark914]

Don't forget tonight, tomorrow, Wednesday and Thursday on the Olympic Channel will be the repeats of Worlds.

[Matryoshka]

19 hours ago, stet said:

Was Lysacek ever capable of doing a quad?

Evan was 6' 2", and did have a quad, when he wasn't injured. Which kind of begs the question if he wouldn't have been hurt so often if he hadn't been trying to rotate all that height.

[Enero]

I think to air or not to air figure skating during more convenient times on network tv is a catch 22. In order for them to air the competitions there has to be a strong interest for it, but then the belief is that garnering a strong interest requires airing the competitions. 

The networks aren’t going to air the competitions without the ratings being there. At the end of the day they are trying to make money ie a profit off everything they air and if the audience isn’t there to garner that profit it’s not their job to build that audience. Domestically that’s up to the USFS.

[Harry24]

I'm thinking of at least eight friends of mine who were casual but warm fans of figure skating, absolutely would have followed the figure skating season, absolutely would have been aware of when the World Championships were on and happily watched them, but are now completely unaware of when events take place.  It didn't even occur to me to ask any of my friends if they saw any of the WC.  I know I would have been greeted with a slightly blank look and, "Oh, right, ice skating.  I really like ice skating.  When is it on?"

[BelleBrit]

9 hours ago, carrier76 said:

I hope we are done with Chicago programs for awhile. Mariah did the same cut for two years, and I thought we were finally done with “Roxie HART!” But then Lim picked it up. Speaking of....her expression needs some work. 

OMG, I had that dreaded song in my head all of last week due to the "scandal" 😂

7 hours ago, Darknight said:

Vincent should work with Mie full time and move to Japan. Mie works so well with Rika. 

Not gonna happen. Mie also has Satoko who has her own under issues, though beautiful and unmatched artistry.  Plus, like it or not, Tom and Tammy's stock seems to have risen with Ting's jr world's medal and Vincent's 4CC/worlds medal, that's more than a lot of coaches can claim right now. But you never know. If they make moves, it will be within the US.  I think that I read somewhere (here?) gossip that Ting's situation in Colorado was always meant to be temporary. It's hard to see Eunsoo staying with Raf, I wonder where she'll go. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by BelleBrit

[MaKaM]

2 hours ago, Enero said:

I think to air or not to air figure skating during more convenient times on network tv is a catch 22. In order for them to air the competitions there has to be a strong interest for it, but then the belief is that garnering a strong interest requires airing the competitions. 

The networks aren’t going to air the competitions without the ratings being there. At the end of the day they are trying to make money ie a profit off everything they air and if the audience isn’t there to garner that profit it’s not their job to build that audience. Domestically that’s up to the USFS.

They have endless channels these days thanks to online broadcasting. They only need to replay the ISU feed with Tara and Johnny overlays (or, you know, not) on any one of endless streaming channels or even youtube. USA gymnastics has been putting junior competitions on youtube live. I watched Romanian championships last year on facebook live. Was it great, no. Could I see everything, also no. But I had the opportunity to decide if I wanted to watch (I did) instead of it being buried behind a paywall or ignored completely. My TV is now sling and I get endless NCAA gymnastics meets, it should not be rocket surgery to toss together a skating channel and replay 50 years worth of figure skating on a loop or something. People would put it on in the background and discover a new appreciation for the sport (and new dislike for American commentators aside from my beloved Uncle Dick and Terry Gannon).

[Mellowyellow]

Bless Rika she came through and posted pics of herself with practically everyone.

Too many to post but I'll leave you with this one. Look at the pretties 😍

I wanna be young and beautiful with a triple axel dammnit!!!!

[BlackberryJam]

Wow...Medvedeva looks exhausted. The bags under her eyes look like the belong on a 60 year old face. Poor girl. Rest. Eat. Heal.