S01.E02: Episode 2

[ApathyMonger]

 

Laura feels increasingly threatened by the presence of Synth Anita, and Leo's quest for information takes him to dangerous places

 

Vera is creepy as hell. I do wonder if they're going to tie that into some of the other storylines soon. I guess Odi showing up outside the family's house is a start.

 

Duelling Paul Kaye shows tonight with this and Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell both on at 9PM.

[NorthstarATL]

 

Vera is creepy as hell

Yup! I'd been warning my friends and family that the natural evolution of socialized medicine would be something akin to the Vera scenario! The Doctor realized that he wasn't in fact the human that Vera was answerable to. Anita's "family" just assumed that if Anita was overriding their commands that she must be "faulty", but, even though it's not where this show seems to be headed, how could one assume that something you bring into your home like that would necessarliy be benign?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Anita's "family" just assumed that if Anita was overriding their commands that she must be "faulty", but, even though it's not where this show seems to be headed, how could one assume that something you bring into your home like that would necessarliy be benign?

 

I'm curious about the memory issues of the synths -- the one in the lab that had the memory of Anita swimming underwater, and Anita telling Laura something about water.  Is it an implanted memory from a human ?

 

Where did Anita take the daughter during the walk at the end of the last episode -- and why ?  Just for a stroll.

 

Is Leo part synth ?  He seemed to have an implant that Max wired up to him from the light fixture to bring him back to life.  Because his response to the power connection seemed more synth than human.

[NorthstarATL]

I'm curious about the memory issues of the synths -- the one in the lab that had the memory of Anita swimming underwater, and Anita telling Laura something about water.  Is it an implanted memory from a human ?

 

Where did Anita take the daughter during the walk at the end of the last episode -- and why ?  Just for a stroll.

 

Is Leo part synth ?  He seemed to have an implant that Max wired up to him from the light fixture to bring him back to life.  Because his response to the power connection seemed more synth than human.

That seems to make sense, especially as he refers to them all as "family". As far as the shared memories, wasn't that part of the daughter's indictment of Anita? That all Synths willingly share data, and that Anita notably refused.

[Cirien]

I'm curious about the memory issues of the synths -- the one in the lab that had the memory of Anita swimming underwater, and Anita telling Laura something about water.  Is it an implanted memory from a human ?

 

Where did Anita take the daughter during the walk at the end of the last episode -- and why ?  Just for a stroll.

 

Is Leo part synth ?  He seemed to have an implant that Max wired up to him from the light fixture to bring him back to life.  Because his response to the power connection seemed more synth than human.

I definitely think Leo's not entirely human......the fluid coming from him seemed more orange than red and he did seem to be "powering up" when hooked up. Could he be the ultimate end game? Or is he the reason these anomalies exist?

[Ceindreadh]

Vera is creepy as hell. I do wonder if they're going to tie that into some of the other storylines soon. I guess Odi showing up outside the family's house is a start.

 

 

I don't think that was Odi at the family's home.  It looked to be the next door neighbour synth (the one that Mattie shot with air rifle last week)

[John Potts]

After last week's opener, I felt this one was kind of a letdown. I get that working in brothel is probably no picnic, but did the only clients the sexbots meet have to be jerks? Not that I'm an expert on brothel clientelle, but I don't imagine they all have rape fantasies. And for her to go straight to straight up murder was a rather dramatic escalation. Also a bit disappointed at how the healthcare bot has apparently an absolute right to control his life (you'd imagine he'd either be under 24 hour observation or free to refuse).

 

Favourite bit was though the scene where teenson tried to touch up Anita, because I'm a sucker for rule lawyering your way out of a situation (also a level of sexual exploitation that was rather more believable than the brothel scene). 

[henripootel]

I get that working in brothel is probably no picnic, but did the only clients the sexbots meet have to be jerks?

I'm a bit more troubled by the fact that the sexbots are bothered in the slightest.  I know that at least some of them have had their programming altered but this shouldn't matter a hoot as far as sex is concerned.  I mean human females might find this work demeaning because they're human, with a long evolutionary legacy of sex being a somewhat important event.  Synths should have no such 'feelings', so sex should be as meaningful to them as shaking hands.  Long story short, I'm bothered that sentience seems to = 'human' in all details.  They may be sentient, but they are not human.  I really hope they're not going with the old trope that these are pretty much the same thing.

 

Also, I'd expect that a fair number of the folks who'd go to a synth brothel are looking for stuff they can't get elsewhere - cruelty, kink, maybe even (gah) 'underaged'.  Seems reasonable to me that sexbots ain't gonna meet the flower of humanity.  

Edited June 27, 2015 by henripootel

[ApathyMonger]

I don't think that was Odi at the family's home.  It looked to be the next door neighbour synth (the one that Mattie shot with air rifle last week)

 

Ah, that makes sense, thanks.

[Athena]

I am really enjoying the Anita storyline. While Mattie and Laura make good points about synths and they are right about Anita not being normal, I am rooting for Anita far more. Gemma Chan is doing very well in this role. I find her sympathetic, creepy, and just charismatic in this role. I've seen her in bit roles over the years and I hope she gets some recognition.

 

Favourite bit was though the scene where teenson tried to touch up Anita, because I'm a sucker for rule lawyering your way out of a situation (also a level of sexual exploitation that was rather more believable than the brothel scene). 

 

Hehe. That amused me. Chan was actually a law student before she started acting.

 

Vera is super creepy. Poor George and Odi.

 

Last episode Leo asked Niska, the sentient blonde synth, to turn her "pain" mode off. To which she refused. This storyline reminds me a bit of Data from Star Trek: TNG. It's more than just sentience since the renegade group have a family structure and self-awareness about their situation, that of real humans, etc. They also love each other. I do wonder about Merlin/Leo though.

[John Potts]

I thought it was pretty strongly stated that Merlin (I know, Colin!) was a synth. Which is a shame: I have no problem with a robo Messiah, but I'd prefer a human who was a believer inequality for purely moral reasons. Surely not all humans are bastards?

 

henripootel Also, I'd expect that a fair number of the folks who'd go to a synth brothel are looking for stuff they can't get elsewhere - cruelty, kink, maybe even (gah) 'underaged'.

 

Maybe, only it looked like Robobrothels are legal. And while I can see a lot of customers wanting something "exotic", surely a lot would value the "convenience" - "It's not cheating because she's not human" "I want a no strings fling" and so on. I would have imagined the old guy was simply lonely (I think he mentioned he was a widower) and felt he was too old to look for a real woman. Though I agree it would have been nice if the sentient robots didn't have any hang ups over sex work (not subscribing to human morality & all), merely the attendant violence.

[henripootel]

"convenience" - "It's not cheating because she's not human" "I want a no strings fling" and so on.

Not for nothing but I'll bet guys who attend brothels don't worry about the 'cheating' part, pretty sure they're past that (or enjoy the thrill).  Nay, 'won't get arrested' and 'won't catch a disease' - there's your draw.  And I expect you would have to draw folks because doing a synth would be (in real terms) paying money to hit a well-manufactured blowup doll.  Not sure people pay money for that, except for ...

Though I agree it would have been nice if the sentient robots didn't have any hang ups over sex work (not subscribing to human morality & all), merely the attendant violence.

 

I've banged on about this before, but this is part of my (mild) complaint that the synths seem a bit too human. The synths look human, act human, think human, and people perceive them as human (albeit ones they're not sure how they're supposed to treat).  That's fine but if I wanted to see a show about British people treating other 'people' as objects I'd watch Downton Abbey, not one about humanoid robots.  Them finding sex work degrading to me just makes it too difficult to see human nature thrown into relief by characters who look human but obviously aren't.  I'm fine with being tasked to stretch my definition of 'human' to include manufactured beings (and explore what 'human' really means) but these guys are hardly asking me to stretch at all.  

[Primetimer]

How one of the sentient synths rose above the rest.

Read the story

[Bryce Lynch]

After last week's opener, I felt this one was kind of a letdown. I get that working in brothel is probably no picnic, but did the only clients the sexbots meet have to be jerks? Not that I'm an expert on brothel clientelle, but I don't imagine they all have rape fantasies. And for her to go straight to straight up murder was a rather dramatic escalation. Also a bit disappointed at how the healthcare bot has apparently an absolute right to control his life (you'd imagine he'd either be under 24 hour observation or free to refuse).

Favourite bit was though the scene where teenson tried to touch up Anita, because I'm a sucker for rule lawyering your way out of a situation (also a level of sexual exploitation that was rather more believable than the brothel scene).

I was a bit surprised with the synths sudden violent reaction in the brothel. I thought the creepy clients were realistic. The creepiest ones would probably tend to go to synth brothels, rather than human ones, as the synths would do whatever they demanded.

As for Vera, I think she is a very accurate portrayal of a government issued synth. When the government comes to "help" you, it generally really is there to CONTROL you. I hope the doctor finds a way to disable her or alter her programming.

[scrb]

What is the story with the people looking for sentient synths?

 

Maybe there's a fear that sentience equals unpredictability and possibly danger to humans.  In the pilot, there was some guy on TV talking about singularity and how if synths could think for themselves, they'd realize first that they're being used for demeaning roles (usually labor) and secondly, that they're better than humans.  I thought the expert said the second realization could make sentient synths dangerous.

 

So are the synth hunters working in some official capacity or are they looking to exploit these unique synths?  The guy with glasses said the synth they've captured is the Mona Lisa (and some other things I forget), as if they represent some kind of revolutionary advance.

[riverheightsnancy]

Laura is neurotic and makes the synths look downright normal. I wish that her objection to the synths built a bit more slowly because it is like she started on 9 and there simply is no where to go with her hysteria, (there's always "11" though! lol).  I guess that I did not understand the premise clearly. I actually thought that the synths were real flesh bodies with manipulated brains.(if this were the case, I could see why it would be so much more objectionable).  Because their "bodies" are so lifelike, I am curious if they will explain how this was achieved. Skin and all. In the Terminator franchise, they explained it in a way that actually made sense for the tech at the time. Maybe they did explain it and I missed it. William Hurt plays a great cranky guy. You can really see how the synths could be used to take away personal freedoms. 

[Glory]

I think Leo is more cyborg than synth. My unspoiled spec: daddy has sick son (Leo) so he devises robotic/cyborg ways to make son healthy again. This leads to creating synths in their entirety. Hence, Leo's "you're my brother" to Max. 

 

It's interesting that the synths don't seem to have super strength or anything (a very common robot trope). I half expected Max to throw Leo over his shoulder and run away like it was nothing. 

[Tara Ariano]

On Leo: that he's something in between human and synth is suggested by the fact that in Episode 1, Niska tells him the button to open the door to her cell requires human body heat, and he had it. So: cyborg is what I assumed after Episode 2.

[Jessi]

The episode I saw didn't have Niska say the line about her father. Also, I've never seen Mattie do anything with a bb gun. Are there two different versions to the episodes? I'm watching mine or AMC streaming.

[Glory]

The episode I saw didn't have Niska say the line about her father. Also, I've never seen Mattie do anything with a bb gun. Are there two different versions to the episodes? I'm watching mine or AMC streaming.

Ditto. I'm watching on AMC. I thought maybe I missed the BB gun part, but now I'm wondering. 

[Tara Ariano]

whoa! I'm watching the British episodes. The bb gun thing with Mattie happened in Episode 1.

[cynic]

I can totally see Ninska having an issue with sex work despite not having human morality concerns. I would think that one of traits that come with sentience would be a desire to be in control of one's own existence. A very basic part of that would be the ability to control what happens to your own body. I think most people would bristle at constant unwanted touching that they have no power to stop, whether it's sexual or not. Couple that with the likely bad treatment by johns who see the synths as nothing more than objects to use and it's not a stretch to think that a sentient synth would find the situation horrifying, especially if their pain sensors aren't turned off. Plus, Ninska obviously has some type of caring relationship with Merlin that includes physical affection. If she's capable of appreciating that, then she's likely capable of not wanting to share that affection with gross clients.

[thuganomics85]

Did not see Leo/Merlin/Colin Morgan being a Synth coming.  A little disappointed, since I like the idea of a human wanting to free the Synths, but I am curious over how he ended up being the leader of the group.  And how he and Anita ended up falling in love.  Two Synths developing a romantic connection is kind of interesting.

 

Surprised that they already ended Ninska's arc in the brothels, but I can't complain too much, since they showed just enough to make me understand how horrible it is.  Obviously, the creepy client was horrible, but I think the scene where she and the other two Synths were getting washed down, was really disturbing.  Really showed that the brothel didn't consider them to be any kind of life, but just tools that needed cleaning.  But I have to think killing that guy and her escape is going to bring trouble to her.  Maybe the two cops we've been checking in with this entire time?

 

Continue to really enjoy the George stuff.  This is actually becoming one of my favorite William Hurt performances in quite some time.  Really like the actor playing his Synth too.

 

Still easily on Team Anita, when it comes to this family.  I still like Sophie and I actually warmed up to the older daughter a bit, but between handsy son and annoying Laura, I really want Anita to overcome their sorry asses.  I don't care how cheap it is; I totally love it whenever Anita possibly trolls Laura.  I do think some of it was totally on purpose.  I did notice that they had Joe bring up her time in Leeds again, so I do wonder if something is going on about that.

 

Still enjoying the show.  Really enjoying the performances from Hurt, Morgan, and especially Gemma Chan.

[Madding crowd]

I wanted to watch this show for William Hurt and I have found it interesting so far. I really don't root for Anita over the family though; they appear to love each other even if they are imperfect. I would not want another person or thing making decisions for my family or making me feel like an interloper in my home. I was thinking about the normal things I might do like pick up the mail or iron a shirt for my son, and I wouldn't like a Synth interfering with me to the point where I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

 

I still have a problem in knowing exactly what the synths are and what makes them different than a intelligent machine. To me, a machine would not be able to differentiate between having sex, washing dishes or picking fruit. I do think the blond sex worker Synth seems way too human to me. I thought perhaps some humans were pretending to be synths or some were forced into becoming hybrids.

 

The scene with William Hurt and Vera played into my worst fears about the general marginalization of older people in our society and the obsessions of the food police whom I'm sure will find a way to regulate every last food and drink we consume before too long. I don't think i would want to live in this world.

[roomtorome]

I'm still trying to understand the comment about this situation and it being the evolution of "socialized medicine" made by someone above.  That leaves me completely baffled as socialized medicine is about who pays - people have politicized it and imbued with some sinister features that simply don't exist so that comment is curious.

 

This human vs machine takes me back to my youth when I devoured Asimov's books and his three rules about robotics, which seem so simple upon first read until you until you absorb the possible scenarios and consequences and the difficulty in adhering to the rules and it has really applied (without directi mention of them) to much of SciFi when it comes to AI or "robots" with variations on the themes (not all, but much of it) -

 

All three of the rules run smack into problems bumping into each other - my head used to spin and I loved the way he incorporated them into his more complex stories placing characters both human and robotic in situations where the rules became a tangle of conflicts: 

 

1.  A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2.  A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3.  A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

 

Part of me wonders if some of these synths were not prior humans - I don't know if that has come up or is totally impossible within the context of the show.  Anita didn't just reluctantly "cuddle" the little girl, she wrapped her in a warm hug.  

 

So far I like the Anita and W. Hurt set pieces, not much interested (yet) in the other character but I do rather wish they would collide and interact at some point soon.  I feel as though I am watching three separate vignettes - so far.  

[NorthstarATL]

I'm still trying to understand the comment about this situation and it being the evolution of "socialized medicine" made by someone above.  That leaves me completely baffled as socialized medicine is about who pays - people have politicized it and imbued with some sinister features that simply don't exist so that comment is curious.

That was me. William Hurt's character wanted to keep his somewhat outdated Synth, but the Government overrode his desire because they were responsible for his care, and he had apparently signed onto that arrangement. Therefore Vera was assigned to him, and made his subsequent choices for him, all in the interest of maintaining his health. As he pointed out, she was not so much his caretaker as his jailer. Clearly, whoever pays sets the rules.

Edited July 7, 2015 by NorthstarATL

[scrb]

Well this show aired in the UK first (though maybe it's suppose to take place in the US, since the British accents are not that apparent?) where they do have govt. paying as well as providing the service.

 

The Hurt character has some emotional tie to the old synth, which may be liable to hurting him at some point in the future as he hurt that grocery store employee.

 

For liability reasons, even private insurance will try to get that synth replaced, though the idea of having a synth in your home that ultimately answers only to the doctor but not the patient is strange.

 

I think they're taking dramatic liberties in this case, to show synths being obtrusive in the lives of these characters.  If we ever got robots to provide care in the home, it's unlikely they would be under the control of external parties, regardless of the kind of health care system.

[Glory]

I think they're taking dramatic liberties in this case, to show synths being obtrusive in the lives of these characters.  If we ever got robots to provide care in the home, it's unlikely they would be under the control of external parties, regardless of the kind of health care system.

Unlikely, but not impossibly. 

 

Think of it this way. Vera is like one of those reporting tools people can put in their car to show their a safe driver. If you're a usually good driver, you're not going to mind that the insurance company is tracking your speed at all times. 

 

If you're a poor driver, or, in this case, someone who just wants a grilled cheese sandwich, Vera is going to report to the insurance company about what you ate. Since you're eating poorly, maybe your insurance payment goes up? Maybe they don't cover you if you have a heart attack? Maybe you lose the policy all together? 

 

Now, for William Hurt, he probably wouldn't mind losing the policy except that losing it means losing Odie. Which we can see is something he's attached too. But the every day person who has a synth like Vera is going to feel as if choices are going to be taken away from them. They want to go for an evening walk because of insomnia? Too bad, so sad it's too cool and you're likely to catch cold. They want to have a glass of sherry after dinner. Nope! That's not helping your liver. 

 

Even if all Vera does is report back on William Hurt's every single move that is taking away his autonomy in a very scary way. I don't think something like Vera is as far-fetched a reality as it seems. I think it's frighteningly realistic. 

[Bryce Lynch]

That was me. William Hurt's character wanted to keep his somewhat outdated Synth, but the Government overrode his desire because they were responsible for his care, and he had apparently signed onto that arrangement. Therefore Vera was assigned to him, and made his subsequent choices for him, all in the interest of maintaining his health. As he pointed out, she was not so much his caretaker as his jailer. Clearly, whoever pays sets the rules.

Exactly. One of the ways the Statist Nanny State justifies its control over people is cost. "We are paying for your healthcare so in order to minimize costs we can tell you what to eat, what to drink, how much and when to sleep, what activities you may and may not do."

Mike Bloomberg would love to have an army of Veras snatching cigarettes. "unhealthy" foods and soda from all Americans, "for their own good" because the government will always make "better choices" for individuals than they will for themselves.

[Bryce Lynch]

Well this show aired in the UK first (though maybe it's suppose to take place in the US, since the British accents are not that apparent?) where they do have govt. paying as well as providing the service.

The Hurt character has some emotional tie to the old synth, which may be liable to hurting him at some point in the future as he hurt that grocery store employee.

For liability reasons, even private insurance will try to get that synth replaced, though the idea of having a synth in your home that ultimately answers only to the doctor but not the patient is strange.

I think they're taking dramatic liberties in this case, to show synths being obtrusive in the lives of these characters. If we ever got robots to provide care in the home, it's unlikely they would be under the control of external parties, regardless of the kind of health care system.

If we bought our own robots they would be unobtrusive. If the government provides them they would likely be just like Vera.

[scrb]

Govt provides food stamps. Are you not able to buy junk food with food stamps?

Govt pays for the telephone and Internet bills of low income people. Are they monitoring their web surfing, any more than everyone else that the NSA monitors?

Govt pays for the health care of millions of vets and seniors. Is there any evidence that they're forcing certain dietary and lifestyle choices on them?

For adults, there will not be androids which enforce them to certain lifestyles in their lifetimes, so this talk about the scenarios portrayed in the show being realistic is a bit premature.

[Tara Ariano]

If we bought our own robots they would be unobtrusive. If the government provides them they would likely be just like Vera.

 

You are very confident about something that hasn't happened and won't in the foreseeable future!

[sluggish neko]

The Dr. Millican and Vera storyline highlights the main problem I have with this series: that the Synths look too human. Millican clearly knows how to tinker with Synths as seen when he worked on Odi. He even mentions being one of the original designers when he's studying Vera going about her work. They're machines right? Couldn't he just have turned it off when Vera got too controlling? The way he sneaked past her while she was "charging"-- he seemed to treat her as a sleeping human guard. He should have just pulled the plug and taken out the battery. That's what I do with machines that aren't cooperating. Hopefully, he figures out a way to tinker with her programming in the next episode. The teen daughter didn't seem to have a problem shutting off the school janitor to hack around his programming.

[Sakura12]

He could shut Vera off but then he'd probably get a call or another visit from the Insurance company asking why he did that. That would bring more attention to the fact that he's trying to hide his old model instead of junking it. 

 

Mattie got in trouble because the school knew she was tampering with the janitor. The Public Synths are being monitored by the company that gave them out. The personal Synths like Anita are probably not monitored. 

 

I think the entire point of the show is that the robots look Human and some are becoming more human, hence the name of the show. It's the what really makes us different then the A.I. robot question. Along with we want our technology to keep doing more stuff so it's easier for us, but by doing that we have to start making our tech more human like. 

 

Yeah, we can have a tin can walking around doing that stuff, but that's not interesting to look at or have walking around when you have people over. Why not have one that looks like us but is still a robot? Then as I said, we have the it looks like us, is it like us question?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[tennisgurl]

The actress playing Anita does an amazing job. She seems off, but just a little bit. Like, she is constantly walking the line between being a person, being a robot, and being a robot that acts like a human. 

 

As for Vera, as the government gave the doctor Vera, right? So now, even if he tries to get rid of her, they will just send another one. I have no idea if this is supposed to be saying something about universal healthcare or not, but it is an interesting topic to bring up in a show like this. 

 

I don't think Anita or the family are all good or all bad. Sophie is clearly my favorite family member, but the rest are growing on me, except for pervy son. I don't really think I`ll have to choose a side, unless the sentient robots are forming some kind of uprising. 

 

Put me down as team "Leo is a Synth/human hybrid". 

[Glory]

Govt provides food stamps. Are you not able to buy junk food with food stamps?

Govt pays for the telephone and Internet bills of low income people. Are they monitoring their web surfing, any more than everyone else that the NSA monitors?

Govt pays for the health care of millions of vets and seniors. Is there any evidence that they're forcing certain dietary and lifestyle choices on them?

For adults, there will not be androids which enforce them to certain lifestyles in their lifetimes, so this talk about the scenarios portrayed in the show being realistic is a bit premature.

Well, sure it's premature. It's science-fiction. 

But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I think it's much more realistic to think that there will be reporting tools (whether or not they are life-like robots) that will record your every move to some "big brother" entity eventually than not. 

 

As to some of your comments - there are definitely political factions that don't think poor people should be able to buy soda or Skittles with their food stamps. In some areas you have to be drug tested to be allowed welfare.

 

There are already health insurance policies that charge you a premium if you do not see your general practitioner once a year. They charge you more if you smoke. They charge you more if you drink. That is not quite enforcing certain lifestyles but it is making them more expensive. 

[scrb]

It's encouraging healthy behavior and the insurance companies are private companies, not the govt.

 

Private corporations also have wellness programs for employees, to encourage them to eat better and exercise more.  They provide some nominal prizes like t-shirts.  But the companies spend money on these programs because they tend to promote productivity, with fewer sick days and so forth.

 

But getting back to the show, I don't get the sense that the writers of the show are suggesting that one of the disadvantages of having androids is that they'd be used to intrude on people's private lives and forcing people to certain behaviors.

 

It's true to an extent only with William Hurt but not with Anita or the cop whose wife is immobile.

 

If the show was only about androids in general, as people try to cope with them, it would be one thing.  But the show seems to be more about some androids having sentience and potentially rebelling against their servitude to humans.

[Melissa56789]

 

 

Exactly. One of the ways the Statist Nanny State justifies its control over people is cost. "We are paying for your healthcare so in order to minimize costs we can tell you what to eat, what to drink, how much and when to sleep, what activities you may and may not do."

Mike Bloomberg would love to have an army of Veras snatching cigarettes. "unhealthy" foods and soda from all Americans, "for their own good" because the government will always make "better choices" for individuals than they will for themselves.

 

Absolutely.  And things like this are already happening in the UK.

 

Teachers can confiscate and KEEP pupils' unhealthy food under government rules for lunchbox inspections

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3145629/Teachers-confiscate-unhealthy-food-Government-issues-rules-carry-lunchbox-inspections.html 

[meep.meep]

What was the thing that Niska dug out of the back of her neck?  And wasn't the bright blue blood creepy?

 

Since someone brought up Downtown Abbey - one thing that struck me was the idea of adding servants, in the form of synths, to homes of people who weren't used to having servants.  You'd feel like you were being watched all the time.  The Abbeyers are used to that kind of life.  They always have had other people around taking care of them, but also observing them.  The Dr. has bonded with Odi, but they've been together for six years.  Laura and the cop are having a much harder time.

[henripootel]

Since someone brought up Downton Abbey - one thing that struck me was the idea of adding servants, in the form of synths, to homes of people who weren't used to having servants.

Not for nothing but I woulda thought the brits would find it easier (in some ways) to adjust to having servants than say Scandinavians or us.  I lived in Britain for a couple of years and the only thing I really found actually weird was their casual acceptance that some folks are just born, well, better than others.  I mean it doesn't rankle my british friends but I'd find the idea of a royal family (plus a large upper class) having rights and opportunities others could never have to be, well, more than a bit abhorrent.  I never understood the importance of the words 'that all men are created equal' till I went to a place where it isn't so.  Not a big deal really, but actually there.

 

I kinda think this would make it slightly easier for Brits to adjust to having servants (and synths), much as the Downton Abbey-type folks were.  One thing this show has done, by the by, is increase the popularity of having butlers, which were dying out but are now doing good business again.  Apparently lots of well-heeled americans now get one, which causes a bit of a problem for those 'in service' as Americans just don't 'get' the proper relationship.  Apparently folks in the middle east (another newish hotspot for butlers) have no such problems.

 

Not to tred on another thread, but this uneasiness with synths seemed more reasonable in the original Scandinavian series.  They too have no recent history of classes of humans, and seem culturally unequipped for knowing how to act around them.  I woulda thought the brits would have less problem with this, that even if they had mixed feelings about how 'human' synths are, they'd have some frame of reference for how to treat them.  

[NorthstarATL]

Not for nothing but I woulda thought the brits would find it easier (in some ways) to adjust to having servants than say Scandinavians or us.  I lived in Britain for a couple of years and the only thing I really found actually weird was their casual acceptance that some folks are just born, well, better than others.  I mean it doesn't rankle my british friends but I'd find the idea of a royal family (plus a large upper class) having rights and opportunities others could never have to be, well, more than a bit abhorrent.  I never understood the importance of the words 'that all men are created equal' till I went to a place where it isn't so.  Not a big deal really, but actually there.

 

I kinda think this would make it slightly easier for Brits to adjust to having servants (and synths), much as the Downton Abbey-type folks were.  One thing this show has done, by the by, is increase the popularity of having butlers, which were dying out but are now doing good business again.  Apparently lots of well-heeled americans now get one, which causes a bit of a problem for those 'in service' as Americans just don't 'get' the proper relationship.  Apparently folks in the middle east (another newish hotspot for butlers) have no such problems.

 

Not to tred on another thread, but this uneasiness with synths seemed more reasonable in the original Scandinavian series.  They too have no recent history of classes of humans, and seem culturally unequipped for knowing how to act around them.  I woulda thought the brits would have less problem with this, that even if they had mixed feelings about how 'human' synths are, they'd have some frame of reference for how to treat them.  

Look at "Reality TV" shows, though.  It's surprising how quickly people seem to adjust to having a camera crew following them around, and begin to treat them just the way that the Downtoners or others treated the "help"! Think of how many teens would use  a Synth to take a selfie for them! The entirety of how they integrate really does seem to hinge upon whether one can look at something or someone who looks human and treat them as if they were/are not.

[henripootel]

The entirety of how they integrate really does seem to hinge upon whether one can look at something or someone who looks human and treat them as if they were/are not.

I gotta disagree.  I'm surrounded by humans who I know are humans and I treat them pretty differently.  I ignore the reality show cameraman (who is doing his job), I'm polite to the stranger who asks me for directions, I have a highly structured (but limited) conversation with my barista and completely understand when she quickly talks to someone else, and I kiss my wife and tell her I'm up for sexy-times later.  All human, very different interactions, and if I get these mixed up there's gonna be problems, maybe even charges.  

 

The only real question is what's appropriate once you decide they deserve consideration.  It's an open question (at this point in the show) if synths deserve any such consideration, or it should be.

[SlovakPrincess]

Was I supposed to root for Niska killing that guy? Because I kind of was, only so she could get the hell out of there. I was like "yes, kill them all, Niska!" But then I felt weird about it ...

I kind of loved every time Anita went against her programming and every time she freaked Laura out. Heh heh. So far I'm not a huge fan of Laura.

I enjoyed Mattie this episode.

So Leo is part synth? Or Max was trying to "power him up" like a synth in an effort to be helpful? That confused me.

William Hurt is awesome and I enjoyed all his scenes. And the loving yet exasperated tone the Dr always takes with poor hapless Odie. Vera is creepy as hell.

[NorthstarATL]

I gotta disagree.  I'm surrounded by humans who I know are humans and I treat them pretty differently.  I ignore the reality show cameraman (who is doing his job), I'm polite to the stranger who asks me for directions, I have a highly structured (but limited) conversation with my barista and completely understand when she quickly talks to someone else, and I kiss my wife and tell her I'm up for sexy-times later.  All human, very different interactions, and if I get these mixed up there's gonna be problems, maybe even charges.  

 

The only real question is what's appropriate once you decide they deserve consideration.  It's an open question (at this point in the show) if synths deserve any such consideration, or it should be.

The key phrase is "I know are humans". But what the show is positing is a world where you wouldn't be certain. Or where your Mr. Coffee is shaped like your wife.

[henripootel]

The key phrase is "I know are humans". But what the show is positing is a world where you wouldn't be certain. Or where your Mr. Coffee is shaped like your wife.

 

 

Yeah, but your key phrase was "whether one can look at something or someone who looks human and treat them as if they were/are not".  My point is that even if you accept them as human, there is a wide variety of responses.  The wide variety of responses on the show isn't coming from people wondering if they're human, cuz everyone seems to pretty much accept them as human.  The really scummy humans still want to sell or rape them, but this is only scummy because they're selling and raping humans, or near enough.  If these guys raped my Mr. Coffee, I wouldn't hate them so much as laugh (and ask them to replace my Mr. Coffee).  I think it's a foregone conclusion that the show wants me to hate these guys, and I think the show would be stronger if they left us with some question about whether or not synths are 'human', and hence whether it's wrong to be treating them this way.

 

Put another way, I think the question here is more like this: 'if you could have complete control over a human, make them work for you or have sex with and then tell them to forget it, would you do so?'  I mean they don't mind the work and they don't even remember the sex, so is it still wrong?  It's an interesting question but it's not the one I'd have expected from a sexy-robot show. 

[LeGrandElephant]

I think there was a bit of a plot hole with the scene where those guys were beating up Leo (I think - not clear on names yet?) and his friend/synth just stood there. It seemed like they were implying that he had to just stand there and not react to maintain his pretense of being a normal robot. But, Asimov's first law of robotics, which was referenced in Episode one, says that a robot can't allow a human to come to harm by inaction. So, he should have been doing something to break up the fight. He obviously can't directly hurt the other humans, but he should have been able to step in between them to block the punches, or restrain them without hurting them, or something like that, while still seeming like a normal synth. Does no one use a synth as a bodyguard? That didn't add up for me. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the scene with Niska killing that guy. Obviously the guy was a creep, but if he does have urges to rape a young girl/teenager, isn't it better that he take out those urges on a supposedly unfeeling robot than on a person? His bad luck that the robot he picked actually does have consciousness and feelings, but he couldn't know that. He should have bailed the second she said no. 

 

I saw some discussion on how consciousness, sentience, etc, shouldn't mean feeling and acting exactly like humans. But my reading of the show was that whoever this guy is who programmed them, he didn't just program the to have consciousness, he programmed them to have human-style consciousness. So they have similar feelings to humans on purpose, not because that's the only possible way to conceive a conscious robot. 

 

My reading of it was that Leo's father had programmed the conscious synths. Leo is clearly more human than them, because he has human body heat, people read him as human, etc. But, he did seem to have some kind of wires in him that could use electricity. So either he was born human and his father did some tinkering, or he is a creation his father made to be even further along the road to fully human. I guess we'll find out the details. I also got the vibe he didn't necessarily know about his internal wires (he was passing out when the synth did that), but not sure if I misread that. 

 

I kept waiting for the old guy to turn off or reprogram Vera - it seems like he knows how. I assume that is coming. There was also mention of some health services contract he had signed; I wonder why he can't seem to get out of that? 

 

If the policeman's wife is paralyzed from the waist down, how is she ever going to "get back on her feet" and not need the synth anymore? Doesn't seem temporary to me. 

 

I find it completely implausible that they would make each synth look so unique. Its obvious the show just didn't want to have to film the same actors over and over in different roles like other robot shows, but it really doesn't ring true at all. 

 

I am watching on AMC on TV and I also did not see any scene with a BB gun in the first episode. When I saw discussion I thought maybe it was a quick scene and I missed it, but if a bunch of other people missed it too, now I wonder. I deleted it off my Tivo without rewatching, unfortunately. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[scrb]

What other type of consciousness is there?

[LeGrandElephant]

There's no reason to assume that consciousness means also having human-style feelings. We tend to think that way because that's our experience, but a priori there's no reason to assume aliens or robots would have the same types of feelings as us. In this show, I think its clear they do because they were designed/programmed by a human who thought that way and was modeling them after humans. But there's no reason to assume that would be a universal law of consciousness. 

[scrb]

So maybe instead of human consciousness, what, it would have some hive consciousness like bees?

 

Or swarm consciousness like locusts?

 

Or school of fish consciousness like school of fish?

 

If you've seen or read other fiction about robots, the conceit is always that they not only look like humans but eventually have sentience and feelings like humans.  In Blade Runner, the Rutger Hower character talks about experiences he's had, which were as amazing as any that any human has had.  Before that speech, he does a supremely human thing of saving Deckard, the guy who's been trying to kill all replicants.

[LeGrandElephant]

Robots or aliens could hypothetically have consciousness that isn't like any animal we know of. Of course, for fiction its usually easier for the audience to relate if they have very similar feelings and thoughts to humans. For example, in Star Trek they kept saying Data didn't have emotions, but he still had goals and desires a lot like a human, and he eventually did end up with an emotion chip as well. Sometimes they would run into truly alien forms of consciousness, like a sentient cloud of space gas or whatever, and they would try to figure out ways to communicate with it and stuff, but those plots usually only lasted one episode - its hard to really have a character that humans can't relate to at all.  

 

I was responding to the comments above that it wasn't realistic that just because these particular special robots are sentient, that they would automatically have human attitudes towards sex and similar. I am saying that there definitely is no reason to assume consciousness or sentience in general would imply human feelings and attitudes towards sex or similar, but that it seems clear that in this case they were created by a specific human who was trying to make them as human-like as possible, not just give them any other abstract form of consciousness. So I think in-plot it works that Niska is disgusted by the brothel clients, etc. 

 

One big issues it that they're keeping their sentience/consciousness secret - so its not really fair to blame  e.g. the brothel owners or clients for treating them badly, when they didn't reveal that they actually do care how they're treated. It would be interesting to see a synth publicly announce it has consciousness and feelings and wants rights, and see the humans react. 

 

Another question - if they can make synth bodies that work so well, why can't they replace that lady's legs instead of having a synth carry her around? I guess they really haven't been clear what the synths are made of - are their muscles biological or some kind of metal or what? They haven't mentioned anything like that. But you'd think that level of technology would go with being able to repair human bodies much better as well. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by LeGrandElephant