Narcos - General Discussion

[numbnut]

I didn't know this season was going to be Kiki Camarena's story. I've already seen a biopic about him but it was so long ago that I'm hoping the show will seem fresh.

[Paws]

Just watched episode 1, I’m in for the season. It’s good! 

[non sequitur]

I thought episode one was dull and a little overdone until the ending. Not sure this will be as good as the original series.

[pivot]

I binge watched the whole season and loved it. It's probably the second best season of the show IMO. The DEA agents were more bland but loved the narco characters. It was also refreshing after season three to have less graphic violence.  Nothing will beat the backdrop of Colombia though.

[Avaleigh]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:37 PM, pivot said:

I binge watched the whole season and loved it. It's probably the second best season of the show IMO. The DEA agents were more bland but loved the narco characters. It was also refreshing after season three to have less graphic violence.  Nothing will beat the backdrop of Colombia though.

I feel bad that I find the narco characters to be infinitely more compelling than the DEA characters. I want the DEA characters to win and always want them to be safe from violence, but when it comes to the actual story I'm more interested in what's going on with the drug lords and their button men. Kiki was a great character though and I liked seeing what a strong and loving dynamic he had with his wife. It was hard to watch scenes with the two of them knowing what would happen. It was also nice to see how close the DEA families were who were stationed in Mexico. They made sure to be there for each other and be supportive. Lots of parties and laughter. They really seemed like a big family.

Miguel Angel was a smart guy but he got greedy the way all of this show's top drug dealers do. I'm kind of inclined to agree with him though that if he hadn't chosen to expand into cocaine, somebody else from one of the plazas eventually would have. Still I don't know why he had to rush it. They were making ridiculously excellent money with the weed with minimal complications. Neto was right that Miguel should have been content the way that Neto and Rafa were. Miguel was always looking for the next best thing.

I was surprised when Miguel broke up with his wife. I honestly didn't see that coming. Somehow I expected more from him. It was so cold the way he told her that hd didn't need her anymore. Also, the way he continually fucked over the lady who made the introductions for him. She was patient, she repeatedly helped him negotiate, she asks for a piece and he lies to her and eventually gets angry enough with her to manhandle her without ever thinking for a moment how he would feel if he were in her position.

Rafa was an idiot. He was loyal to Miguel but he was ultimately a liability and he shoulders a big part of the blame for what happened with Kiki. His romance with Sofia was so crazy. Both characters need to have their heads examined. If you have to stage a kidnapping in order to be together IDK maybe consider seeing other people? Lol and how Tony Montana is his style icon? This guy has all of the maturity of a fifteen year old boy. I'm glad that he got to see with his own eyes how quickly Sofia turned on him in order to save herself.

I will say that anyone who was concerned that this series somehow glamourizes drugs and drug dealers has absolutely nothing to worry about. There are basically only two endings for guys who get into this business and reach the top levels. Death or prison. Sometimes there's a period of life on the run but life on the run ends either with the runner being killed or taken off to jail. 

As for the drug use, this is about as appealing as the drug use in Requiem for a Dream. It's awful, awful stuff and seeing Rafa's moment of clarity was very well done. When he watches one of his guys repeatedly snorting obscene amounts of cocaine up his nose, it's finally obvious to him how sick and dangerous it is. You wonder how they don't OD. When he's trying to quit and he goes through all of this panic and pain, I was so disappointed when one of his guys decided to give him a snort so that he'd feel better. It seemed like he was so close to making it to the light at the end of the tunnel.

I did find it interesting that Rafa was so anti getting into cocaine distribution when he's such a coke head. Did we ever see him smoke weed at all? It sort of reminded me how we wouldn't see Pablo doing blow. We'd just see him smoking weed. Maybe it comes back to that 'don't get high on your own supply' rule.

Don Neto was my favorite character in this group of bad guys. Funny, loyal, intelligent but also recognizes his own limitations. His grief over his son--nice work by the actor. He doesn't even really try to get away when he goes to the beach house. He could have had a life on the run (or at least attempted it) but he seemed to accept that his course was run and that jail or death were the only options. He didn't panic or make a desperate last move, he just accepted it. Consider the way some of the characters in previous seasons who have been in his position have acted and it makes him seem fairly dignified in comparison.

I enjoyed this season and hope that we get another one. If they're going to do bunch of sub series, this show could go all over the world and to multiple time periods.

[snowwhyte]

I waited until I finished the season to comment because I didn't want to be spoiled but then I caved halfway through the season and googled Kiki. Once i read what happened to him i remembered him being mentioned in season one of Narcos.

I liked seeing the different management style of Felix. I can't stand all the violent Narcos with zero impulse control like Rafa. The guys who are always posturing and doing stupid stuff seem like spoiled children. I kind of wanted Felix to succeed and keep everything controlled so that the violence would be minimized but I guess you're only as strong as your weakest link. I felt for him trying to keep everyone in line but by the end he showed himself to be no better than the rest. He was ice cold, had no loyalty and used violence as a tool. I really wanted him to fall but at the same time I know that a power struggle within the cartel means more violence.

I how this gets decent viewership. I've had discussions with people about recreational drug use. People who argue that they're not harming anyone and sure if you grow your own stuff that might be true. If you are buying illegal drugs from criminal gangs then you are contributing to violence that has killed many thousands of people. Everyone who creates a market for the cartels should realise that they are complicit in the violence.

[Sentient Meat]

I finally finished Season 3 because I wanted to start Narcos Mexico, and I have to say I'm really glad I caught up.

I agree with others who have said the first episode is hard to get into, but by the second or third, the show really got me hooked again.

Although I like Pedro Pascal's Latino Burt Reynolds charisma... I must say this show was dominated by the villains.  Matias Verela was terrific as Jorge Salcedo, the Michael Corleone type who never wanted to be in the business... and actually meant it.  Francisco Denis, was a revelation for me, as the paranoid Miguel... and Pepe Rapazote was extremely convincing as the loose cannon Chepe.  I really hope all three of them get some work from this gig  (I see Denis has a role in Jack Ryan, which I haven't seen yet.)

Riveting stuff from the second episode on... felt like a ten hour version of Good Fellas... or the Godfather.

Highly recommended.

[Sharper2002]

I just finished watching the season so I could collect all of my thoughts. Just some general observations: 

Watching the corruption of the police and government officials was just appalling. I'd always heard about the corrupt police and officials and how rampant it is in Mexico, but it makes a difference when you see it within the context of the story and how so many were affected. Even Calderoni, who was ready to hunt Felix down and turned down his money, let's Felix go when he realizes the torture tapes could implicate his bosses and put him in danger. You just can't win within that system.

I thought Michael Pena was fine as Kiki although it seemed like he only switched within the two modes of either being pissed or brooding. I guess it makes sense for the circumstances he was in, but he wasn't super compelling. I remember whispering "No" when he called out to Felix on the street and said he wanted him to know his name. Knowing the level of support they had (zero) with the higher-ups, that was just a bad idea. And I felt awful for his poor neighbor who was killed for setting up the wiretap. The poor man was a civilian trying to help his neighbor and this is out he goes out. 

I started getting annoyed with all of Rafa's scenes towards the end. From "kidnapping" Sofia to viciously killing the American tourists, he was a huge liability. His arc was interested in seeing him going from being poor and just caring about his plants to going full-on Scarface. He had more money than he knew what to do with it and cocaine is a hell of a drug, so it shouldn't be surprising that he ended up acting that way. Throw in the poor impulse control and he's one step away from bringing down the whole operation. 

Don Neto was the type to mind his own business and keep his head down, provide advice when needed and understood the game. When Felix sold him out, he accepted it and was basically like "we had a good run". 

Diego Luna was giving a whole look as Felix. His arc was interesting to watch starting out as a negotiator to become all-out ruthless. I had to laugh in the final episode when the heads of the plazas were meeting behind his back and he showed up with his military backing and bossed up out of the helicopter. He was like, "Not on my watch!" However, like so many who can't be satisfied with the status quo, he always wanted to move to the next best thing. His business became his obsession and he was willing to protect that at all costs. 

Finally, it was cool to see the Cali cartel and Pablo again! That was a very cool tie-in to the Colombian series. 

Hopefully, there will be a season 2 to deal with the aftermath of Kiki's murder.

[Sentient Meat]

It makes me sad to see so few posts for one of the best television shows out there.

Is it because it's mostly subtitled?  Is it because they opted for more average, realistic looking casting instead of beautiful telenovela types?

If you are lurking here and for some odd reason you haven't watched it, I'd strongly recommend that you do.

My only gripe is perhaps the casting of Rafa.  The actor worked for the early, humble character who only cared about his weed but lacked the charisma to seduce the beautiful Sofia in my mind.  He was so stupid and repulsive by the end of the series that you couldn't buy any woman wanting to deal with his mess.

Also maybe they could have done better than Michael Pena... he didn't bother me but he didn't inspire the empathy that Alyssa Diaz did as his wife Mika.

The star of the show is Diego Luna who comes close to pulling off a Pacino quality performance as Felix Gallardo, the mastermind behind the first cartel.  It perhaps lacks the power of Pacino's Michael, but I think that is because they chose to keep his personal life somewhat of mystery... alluding to numerous affairs and mystery women coming out of his hotel room, but never quite revealing the man beyond his business dealings.

I try to keep in mind that these are real people of course, so although there is poetic license, it doesn't have the same latitude that a show like the Godfather or the Sopranos might have.

Looking forward to season 2... it was set up so that they can tell a lot more story if the ratings hold up.

[snowwhyte]

I think there are a few reasons there aren't many people commenting on this thread. Narcos is the kind of show where you do have to give it your full focus, in part because of the subtitles and partly because it is a quality show that deserves to be watched properly. I'd like to think people will catch up with it over the holiday season when they have more time.

I don't think having a season thread instead of episode threads helps. If there are episode threads and I have something to say about a particular episode i will comment. If there is a season thread I will avoid it until I have completed the season and by then I might have forgotten particular things that I wanted to say or they might seem less important in the larger context of the show.

I'm not sure if the reset might have put some people off but I hope not. I liked Pedro Pascal, Wagner Moira and the Columbia setting but I enjoy Diego Luna and the Mexican story has a lot to offer.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:47 PM, Sentient Meat said:

It makes me sad to see so few posts for one of the best television shows out there.

Is it because it's mostly subtitled?  Is it because they opted for more average, realistic looking casting instead of beautiful telenovela types?

If you are lurking here and for some odd reason you haven't watched it, I'd strongly recommend that you do.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 11:51 AM, snowwhyte said:

I don't think having a season thread instead of episode threads helps. If there are episode threads and I have something to say about a particular episode i will comment. If there is a season thread I will avoid it until I have completed the season and by then I might have forgotten particular things that I wanted to say or they might seem less important in the larger context of the show.

I didn't comment while I was watching for that exact reason. When there's only one thread to discuss the whole season, I avoid it because I don't want to be spoiled. Unfortunately that means by the time I finish watching the entire season, I don't remember all the finer points I wanted to talk about and I only remember the big stuff. I think there's plenty to discuss with this show, which I have enjoyed every season.

Normally for Netflix shows that I binge watch like Orange Is the New Black, House of Cards, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, etc. I will post in each episode thread right after I watch the episode while it's still fresh in my mind. Narcos also got released during a time of year that's busy for me so it took me a few weeks to watch this season (as opposed to shows that I was able to watch in one weekend because I had a lot fewer things on my calendar when the season was released) so at this point, I couldn't really tell you what my thought about, say, the first episode were.

I did like S4 though. I wasn't sure how much I would like it due to the show completely changing their focus from the characters we followed in previous seasons (I enjoyed the brief appearances by Pablo and some of the others from the earlier seasons!), to completely new characters but I ended up growing to like a lot of the S4 players.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This isn't specifically about the show Narcos, but Netflix has a new documentary series called Inside the Real Narcos. A former Special Forces commando goes to Mexico, Colombia, and Peru to meet with people who work for the cartels. It's only three episodes so I'm going to give it a try over the holidays. I thought some of you might be interested in watching it too. In the Mexico episode, he talks to someone from the Sinaloa cartel and in the Colombia episode he meets with one of Pablo Escobar's top enforcers and looks at global cocaine smuggling, so it is related to the show Narcos.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Pablo's Tulum villa has been turned into a five star hotel

[benteen]

I finished it last night and thought it was great.  The reset didn't hurt it at all and I hope this show gets the attention it deserves.

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, Avaleigh said:

I feel bad that I find the narco characters to be infinitely more compelling than the DEA characters. I want the DEA characters to win and always want them to be safe from violence, but when it comes to the actual story I'm more interested in what's going on with the drug lords and their button men. Kiki was a great character though and I liked seeing what a strong and loving dynamic he had with his wife. It was hard to watch scenes with the two of them knowing what would happen. It was also nice to see how close the DEA families were who were stationed in Mexico. They made sure to be there for each other and be supportive. Lots of parties and laughter. They really seemed like a big family.

Miguel Angel was a smart guy but he got greedy the way all of this show's top drug dealers do. I'm kind of inclined to agree with him though that if he hadn't chosen to expand into cocaine, somebody else from one of the plazas eventually would have. Still I don't know why he had to rush it. They were making ridiculously excellent money with the weed with minimal complications. Neto was right that Miguel should have been content the way that Neto and Rafa were. Miguel was always looking for the next best thing.

I was surprised when Miguel broke up with his wife. I honestly didn't see that coming. Somehow I expected more from him. It was so cold the way he told her that hd didn't need her anymore. Also, the way he continually fucked over the lady who made the introductions for him. She was patient, she repeatedly helped him negotiate, she asks for a piece and he lies to her and eventually gets angry enough with her to manhandle her without ever thinking for a moment how he would feel if he were in her position.

Rafa was an idiot. He was loyal to Miguel but he was ultimately a liability and he shoulders a big part of the blame for what happened with Kiki. His romance with Sofia was so crazy. Both characters need to have their heads examined. If you have to stage a kidnapping in order to be together IDK maybe consider seeing other people? Lol and how Tony Montana is his style icon? This guy has all of the maturity of a fifteen year old boy. I'm glad that he got to see with his own eyes how quickly Sofia turned on him in order to save herself.

I will say that anyone who was concerned that this series somehow glamourizes drugs and drug dealers has absolutely nothing to worry about. There are basically only two endings for guys who get into this business and reach the top levels. Death or prison. Sometimes there's a period of life on the run but life on the run ends either with the runner being killed or taken off to jail. 

As for the drug use, this is about as appealing as the drug use in Requiem for a Dream. It's awful, awful stuff and seeing Rafa's moment of clarity was very well done. When he watches one of his guys repeatedly snorting obscene amounts of cocaine up his nose, it's finally obvious to him how sick and dangerous it is. You wonder how they don't OD. When he's trying to quit and he goes through all of this panic and pain, I was so disappointed when one of his guys decided to give him a snort so that he'd feel better. It seemed like he was so close to making it to the light at the end of the tunnel.

I did find it interesting that Rafa was so anti getting into cocaine distribution when he's such a coke head. Did we ever see him smoke weed at all? It sort of reminded me how we wouldn't see Pablo doing blow. We'd just see him smoking weed. Maybe it comes back to that 'don't get high on your own supply' rule.

Don Neto was my favorite character in this group of bad guys. Funny, loyal, intelligent but also recognizes his own limitations. His grief over his son--nice work by the actor. He doesn't even really try to get away when he goes to the beach house. He could have had a life on the run (or at least attempted it) but he seemed to accept that his course was run and that jail or death were the only options. He didn't panic or make a desperate last move, he just accepted it. Consider the way some of the characters in previous seasons who have been in his position have acted and it makes him seem fairly dignified in comparison.

I enjoyed this season and hope that we get another one. If they're going to do bunch of sub series, this show could go all over the world and to multiple time periods.

I can't add much more to this brilliant post.  Well done, Avaleigh!

[itsadryheat]

Just finished ep 6.  Same excellent story, casting, photography, music.  I find Narcos Mexico as compelling as Narcos, maybe more so, as I live on the border. It’s fascinating to watch the evolution of this “industry” and what’s happening current day.  Agree that you have to give this 100% attention.

I originally tried multitasking while watching, and quickly found out that wasn’t going to work. Not only due to the subtitles, but also keeping track of plot and characters. I still had to search for episode reviews to answer missing pieces.

Random thoughts.  Rafa’s irrigation story was very interesting – the shot of Rafa’s pot field – how they organized the field workers - early Chapo was cool - Diego Luna looks like the real Miguel – nice surprise Medellin cross over – Pablo and the hippos – Pablo and the 50/50 deal – had to take breaks watching episodes due to my blood pressure rising thanks to OUR government, really, why is DEA down there? seriously, year old aerial surveillance photos – Kiki sure had cajones

Saw this promo while on episode hiatus: VH1 10-episode “Cartel Crew,” produced by Big Fish Entertainment, will take a look at the lives of eight descendants of cartel life living in Miami, Florida as they navigate adulthood and the effects that the legacy has had on their upbringing.

[Giselle]

I'd give this a 7 but no higher.

Rafe's "telenovela" took too much time that could have been spent better elsewhere.  I was also left wondering how much they changed or modified what actually happened to suit the script. 

While I liked several of the other actor's performances, my favorite was "Don Neto",  I did not care for the one note performance of Michael Pena. Eight episodes of brooding and only towards the end was his acting different. I also blame the script.

This was not as good as the original Narcos.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Giselle

[larapu2000]

I'm curious why the show made the choice to make it seem like Miguel was opposed to the capture and torture of Kiki.  Was he?  Everything I read after watching made it seem like he would have 100% ordered it.  Does anyone with more literacy in the Mexican cartel history know more than I do?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Pedro Pascal is in the Broadway production of King Lear starring Glenda Jackson. The show is scheduled to run through July 7th.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Narcos: Mexico S2 premieres on 2/13/20 (bonus points for Depeche Mode!)

Promo:

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Diego Luna talks about Narcos: Mexico S2

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Constantinople]

Loved how Pacho, the Number 3 guy in the Number 2 Colombian cartel, in essence tells Felix, the Number 1 guy in the Number 1 Mexican cartel, to Eff off when Felix wants  to get paid more quickly for smuggling cocaine into the US

[peridot]

I watched the second season over two days.  The DEA weren't really interesting to me, but I wasn't expecting that ending for the team.

I wonder why no one wanted to work with Isabella, she had the contacts and knew the game.  Was it just because she was a woman?  I guess that's why she dress to the nines all the time, to make people notice her.

Seeing the depths of the corruption really made me sick, and I felt sorry for the people who advocated for change.

Was the childhood backstory of the president and his brother true, or just made up?

[larapu2000]

I felt like the DEA was barely featured.   It was all Miguel.

And for a show that kept insisting Miguel was so clever and omniscient, he was able to predict the future cartel beefs but could barely read the room that they were all unhappy with his decisions?  Did he really think murdering the wife and kids of his plaza boss would ingratiate anyone, or even really make them fear him like he thought it would?

This show has always made law enforcement out to be smart, good cops hamstrung by politics and local laws, and portrayed the drug kingpins as violent and impulsive animals, and it felt like this season changed that up.  

I enjoyed the season, but it just really lacked the angle of law enforcement as the forefront. 

 

 

[monakane]

I finished season 2.  I enjoyed it, but Miguel did not hold my interest the way Escobar did in the first two seasons.  My favorite character was Pablo Acosta.  He seemed to have the most compassion and humanity of all the bad guys.  If they do a season 3, I'm sure it will focus on El Chapo.

[RealReality]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:38 PM, monakane said:

I finished season 2.  I enjoyed it, but Miguel did not hold my interest the way Escobar did in the first two seasons.  My favorite character was Pablo Acosta.  He seemed to have the most compassion and humanity of all the bad guys.  If they do a season 3, I'm sure it will focus on El Chapo.

What I like about this show is that they could totally do a third season.....or not.  Either way I'd be happy, but I'm sure you're right and if there is another season it'll focus on Chapo.  

Acosta and Isabella were my favorite characters.  I loved that Isabella was about her business but never sacrificed her glam and didn't outright use sex to get what she wanted.  She paid her bribes like everyone else.  She didn't ask for special favors because she was pretty.  

 

[Constantinople]

I expect El Chapo will have a larger role in Season 3 if there is one -- I'm not saying there won't be, but I expect it to be delayed, at the least, due to COVID-19 -- but I believe Amado Carrillo Fuentes will be the main "protagonist". He's the only Mexican character who's appeared in both Narcos Mexico and Narcos, and now that Narcos Mexico's timeline is closer to Seasons 2 and 3 of Narcos, his character can provide continuity between what's going on in Mexico and what's going on in Colombia (Amando and Pacho, who were seen to be tight in Season 3 of Narcos)

But the main reason I believe that Amado Carrillo Fuentes will be the main character of Season 3 is the final scene of Season 2. Breslin visits Félix in prison and Félix predicts what will happen now that the Guadalajara cartel has dissolved. Félix tells Breslin to learn the name Amado Carrillo Fuentes, one of the two leaders of the breakaway Juarez cartel, and that if Juarez plays its cards right, Amado Carrillo could be the most powerful drug lord Mexico has ever seen ("unless someone has balls big enough to put a bullet in his head. It's just a thought.") Also, Breslin's character was reassigned to the DEA office in El Paso at the end of the season, right across the border from Juarez.

[greyhorse]

Well after ignoring Narcos for five years, I've finally watched and finished all five seasons in about 5 weeks.

I didn't find Mexico Season 2 nearly as compelling as the first or the Narcos Columbia seasons.  Much preferred Pena and Kiki to Breslin. Too many scenes of a brooding pensive Breslin taking a drag on a cigarette.  It's unfortunate because if there is a season 3, it clearly looks like Breslin will be the guy given that he is now in El Paso.  Looked like Jayme resurfaces as well.

Likewise, Felix didn't do it for me as the villain and much preferred Escobar.  Maybe it was his perfectly coiffed hair that bugged the crap out of me.  The only time I ever felt anything for him was when we saw how vulnerable he was in negotiating with the Columbians.  When he was forced to accept the 70 tons when he clearly didn't want.

What happened to the second wife?  There was the first wife which he reconciled with who he has two kids with.  But wasn't there a taller, younger, attractive woman that he had a kid with and we saw during his 40th birthday party?  Where did she go?

Random thought: We saw Salceda doing his security during one of the episodes.  I'm assuming they just wanted to give the actor a cameo.  But didn't this guy go into witness protection or hiding after the Columbians?  Why would Salceda even want to be involved knowing that (I believe if I'm remembering correctly) that Felix was meeting with the Columbians?

One of the cruelest moments of this season was the brutal killing of the Plaza boss' wife and kids.  I thought the guy was just going to push her over the bridge.  But even more shocked that the gun came out and she was shot.  We saw her body going over the bridge.  And then it looked like one other.  I'm assuming both kids were killed and tossed over.  As the post above says, how would not cause the Plaza bosses to fear Felix?  If anything, it would get them to come together against him.  Don't see how Guerra (?) would continue to work under him knowing that he killed his wife.

[greyhorse]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:38 PM, monakane said:

I finished season 2.  I enjoyed it, but Miguel did not hold my interest the way Escobar did in the first two seasons.  My favorite character was Pablo Acosta.  He seemed to have the most compassion and humanity of all the bad guys.  If they do a season 3, I'm sure it will focus on El Chapo.

I'm seeing on Netflix though there is 3 seasons of an El Chapo show.  So it would be a little redundant, no?  Since a lot of this is real life based?

[magdalene]

Can somebody tell me - without spoilers -  I like Pedro Pascal  - is his role in Narcos a good role for him?

[DudeLeaveMeAlone]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:18 PM, magdalene said:

Can somebody tell me - without spoilers -  I like Pedro Pascal  - is his role in Narcos a good role for him?

I did not know who he was, but thoroughly enjoyed his work in this series. I noticed him in other work after watching this.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Amazon has a four part series called The Last Narc. It’s about the kidnapping and murder of Kiki Camarena. I thought it might be repetitive after watching Narcos but there was a lot of new information and interviews with people who were involved in the case. 

On a shallow note, every time they showed the real life version of someone who had been depicted on Narcos (and there were a lot of them), I had to do a double take!

[larapu2000]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:27 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Amazon has a four part series called The Last Narc. It’s about the kidnapping and murder of Kiki Camarena. I thought it might be repetitive after watching Narcos but there was a lot of new information and interviews with people who were involved in the case. 

On a shallow note, every time they showed the real life version of someone who had been depicted on Narcos (and there were a lot of them), I had to do a double take!

I watched this the other day, and agree that it was really well done-especially the timeline and the other work Kiki had done to undermine the cartel.  The series honestly portrays him as just finding that field in terms of achievements, but he had done so much work, cultivating informants, etc, that the show never really "showed" me why he was this amazing narco, and he really WAS!  

I also didn't realize that there was never any TRUE justice for his family for his death, especially in extradition for the people that were arrested in Mexico for his murder.  The fact that we had to kidnap the doctor because Mexico wouldn't extradite, and then we had to LET HIM GO was infuriating. Even COLUMBIA extradited drug lords-it was their one trump card against the cartels.  The US wasn't messing around, and judges, juries, etc weren't as corrupt or easy to murder here, and the Columbian government kept it as an ace in the hole for narco traffickers.  

It's horrifying that US government agents were complicit in his death to cover up the goddamn Contra support.  Was there ever a more insignificant country that the US fucked up so much other shit over in history???  (Besides Afghanistan.  And Iran.  And Vietnam.)

Edited to add:  And hey, maybe the show covered all of this, but I found this season rather boring and not as great as the last 4 before it, so if it did say all of this-I missed it.  Or forgot it.  LOL

Edited August 6, 2020 by larapu2000
Show Content

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

I watched this the other day, and agree that it was really well done-especially the timeline and the other work Kiki had done to undermine the cartel.  The series honestly portrays him as just finding that field in terms of achievements, but he had done so much work, cultivating informants, etc, that the show never really "showed" me why he was this amazing narco, and he really WAS!  

I also didn't realize that there was never any TRUE justice for his family for his death, especially in extradition for the people that were arrested in Mexico for his murder.  The fact that we had to kidnap the doctor because Mexico wouldn't extradite, and then we had to LET HIM GO was infuriating. Even COLUMBIA extradited drug lords-it was their one trump card against the cartels.  The US wasn't messing around, and judges, juries, etc weren't as corrupt or easy to murder here, and the Columbian government kept it as an ace in the hole for narco traffickers.  

It's horrifying that US government agents were complicit in his death to cover up the goddamn Contra support.  Was there ever a more insignificant country that the US fucked up so much other shit over in history???  (Besides Afghanistan.  And Iran.  And Vietnam.)

Edited to add:  And hey, maybe the show covered all of this, but I found this season rather boring and not as great as the last 4 before it, so if it did say all of this-I missed it.  Or forgot it.  LOL

I agree - the Amazon show did a great job of showing why Kiki was good at his job. I also liked that this documentary was totally watchable and understandable even if you had no previous knowledge of all the narco history. They were able to explain all that while focusing on Kiki's role and showing both the personal and professional sides of the story. I really felt for the agent who was later assigned to investigate Kiki's kidnapping murder and then got screwed when he followed the trail (and specific orders to have the doctor kidnapped). He was just doing his job (and doing it well) and he got fucked over.

[Constantinople]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:59 AM, greyhorse said:

Random thought: We saw Salceda doing his security during one of the episodes.  I'm assuming they just wanted to give the actor a cameo.  But didn't this guy go into witness protection or hiding after the Columbians?  Why would Salceda even want to be involved knowing that (I believe if I'm remembering correctly) that Felix was meeting with the Columbians?

Season 3 of Narcos, which we could think of as Narcos Columbia, takes place in the 90s. Season 2 of Narcos Mexico, when Salceda is checking the Panamanian hotel room for bugs, takes place in the 80s.

[angora]

After a pandemic-induced Star Wars rewatch left me itching for more of both Pedro Pascal and Diego Luna, it was inevitable that I'd come to Narcos sooner or later. I started moving through the two series a little gradually, but at some point, I hit my stride and really got into it.

Narcos first. Although the real world has largely taken away my appetite for fictional portrayals of law enforcement folks behaving illegally, I at least appreciate that Narcos frequently depicts this as a bad thing. While Pablo, and later the Cali folks, are obviously horrible and doing way worse things on the regular, I like the way the series shows that everyone in this whole ecosystem is in the weeds to varying extents. The stuff Carillo gets up to when he makes his return in season 2 is just chilling, and it's striking to me how Peña unnecessarily leaves Jorge in serious danger in season 3 because he's so obsessed with taking down Cali. And by the same token, we also see how these single-minded crusades don't actually do much to put a dent in the drug war, like the way Cali is able to flourish while the DEA is throwing everything into chasing Pablo or, with Narcos: Mexico, how taking down Félix doesn't stop the massive apparatus he built.

I think Wagner Moura is excellent as Pablo, although I do hit diminishing returns with the character. It's one of those instances where I keep thinking, "How can you be a powerful drug lord/billionaire and still be so fragile?" It's ridiculous the way he acts so indignant, almost BETRAYED, when law enforcement and politicians come after him for unleashing devastating waves of violence through the streets. So deluded - admittedly fascinating to see how he somehow manages to paint HIMSELF as the victim in their interactions, but it gets grating.

For all of that, I was still a little unsure how the show would fare leaving that story behind for season 3, but the Cali cartel is interesting in a different way. Their vibe and way of doing business is so different than Pablo's, and with a whole group of main partners/scions/whatnot, it's fun to watch the interplay between all of them. It also helps, for me, to see Peña taking center stage on the DEA side of things. (I'll confess - I hadn't known about Murphy's character going into the show, and the pilot was an exercise in, "Why am I watching this dude who can't even speak Spanish when I could be having Pedro Pascal on my screen right now?")

Personally, while I like Narcos, I really love Narcos: Mexico. It definitely benefits from everything the original series does to set up its style and thesis, and it's cool to see the tie-ins with some of the Colombian characters, but everything just comes together better for me. The creation of the Guadalajara cartel, the in-fighting between the plazas, dipshit Rafa and laidback Don Neto, all of that really holds my attention, and it's interesting to see Kiki and the DEA folks come to grips with just how hard they're being actively held back by TPTB from doing their jobs.

I find Félix to be the most fascinating narco on either show. He's one of those characters who absolutely deserves everything he has coming to him, but it's so compelling to watch how he plays the game and how he evades consequences for so long. Speaking of him purely as a character (again, the real guy deserves every bit of what he got,) I love those moments when he's backed into a corner, digs deep, and pulls out a save just in time. Using the incriminating interrogation tapes as leverage when Calderoni has him dead to rights. Offering to run guns for the CIA in exchange for them getting the DEA off his back. Coming up with the idea to rig the election by driving down morale, and then changing his method for doing so on the fly when his politician buddy accidentally blows their dummy-computer gambit. With Félix, I think the series comes closest to the sort of feelings I get watching Breaking Bad or the best seasons of Dexter: that sense of knowing I SHOULD be rooting for him to get caught, but at the same time going, "Oh shit, how's he gonna get out of this one?" And at the same time, for how smart, capable, and largely above petty bullshit he is, his fatal flaws emerge over the course of the show as his ambitions/greed for more power eclipse the relationships he's built his entire organization on. Diego Luna is spectacular, so unassuming but knowing just when to turn it on and get scary.

[BetterButter]

 

[Shriekingeel]

Still no reactions to NM Season 3?

Spoilers abound below.

I found it gripping and involving until the final episode, when I thought the whole season lost steam. I think they tried to fit too much into it with the murdered-women subplot, which had little to nothing to do with the main thrust of the series. We’d invested all this time in an enormous amount of characters and the intricate politics among the various cartel families, and I wanted to see more of them and not an ultimately pointless subplot. 
 

I was puzzled by the complete disappearance of the Pacho-assassination subplot. Pacho was one of the most interesting and charismatic characters on the show and we don’t find out what happens to him? Odd. 
 

Mayra Hermosillo (who looks like an older, prettier AOC) is a terrific actress but had very little to do beyond furrowing her brow. I was curious to see the dynamics of a woman taking over the leadership of a cartel, but they didn’t explore this at all. 

The season had that The Wire feeling, where you wanted less cop time and more time with the drug crews. I wanted a whole lot less of Breslin with his boring girlfriend and more cartel time. 
 

 

[peridot]

I just finished season 3 of Narcos: Mexico.  I was not expecting for the General to be working for a cartel, even though Mayo alluded to it with Amado.  It didn't even cross my mind.

I was pretty shocked with the torturer threatened to rape Alex and Walt didn't try to intervene.  He only felt like he had to step in when it turned out Alex has dual citizenship.  That's terrible.

I hated that the Hank guy never had to face consequences for his actions.  I hoped that the editor pulled through. 

That ending was a total fiction, though I was kind of rooting for it?  It's weird to hope for a happy ending for bad guy.

[eejm]

I know the Victor storyline was not terribly popular, but I liked it.  It wasn't well-connected to the bigger story, but I did see a lot of parallels between Victor and Walt. Both were trying their hardest to fix absolutely hopeless situations on two very different sides of the drug trade. Victor faced the ultimate defeat, but I can't say Walt fared much better in the end.

[Stan39]

On 11/7/2021 at 1:08 AM, Shriekingeel said:

Still no reactions to NM Season 3?

Spoilers abound below.

I found it gripping and involving until the final episode, when I thought the whole season lost steam. I think they tried to fit too much into it with the murdered-women subplot, which had little to nothing to do with the main thrust of the series. We’d invested all this time in an enormous amount of characters and the intricate politics among the various cartel families, and I wanted to see more of them and not an ultimately pointless subplot. 
 

I was puzzled by the complete disappearance of the Pacho-assassination subplot. Pacho was one of the most interesting and charismatic characters on the show and we don’t find out what happens to him? Odd. 
 

Mayra Hermosillo (who looks like an older, prettier AOC) is a terrific actress but had very little to do beyond furrowing her brow. I was curious to see the dynamics of a woman taking over the leadership of a cartel, but they didn’t explore this at all. 

The season had that The Wire feeling, where you wanted less cop time and more time with the drug crews. I wanted a whole lot less of Breslin with his boring girlfriend and more cartel time. 
 

 

Completely underwhelmed and disappointed this is how the series ends. I’m not sure what happened, but I think COVID and a change in showrunner drastically changed the arc of the show, and not for the better. 
 

S2 finale and the trailer for S3 teased an all out cartel war, which I think is what most wanted and expected. Instead, roughly a third of the story was devoted to a fictional murder case that had very little to do with Narcos. I understand some people liked that story, it just didn’t fit with Narcos and took up valuable time that could/should have been given to the DEA fighting the cartels as the cartels fought one another (which is what every other season of Narcos was about). 
 

That brings us to the second big problem, the reporter. It felt like someone at Netflix decided the show needed a strong, female protagonist so they created this pure and perfect young reporter who would figure everything out and never compromise in her pursuit of the truth. Again, every other season of Narcos was portrayed from the perspective of the DEA, who had no allusions about the geopolitical overpininnings of the situation. Instead, we get truly awful narration from a character who has minimal interaction with any of the main players involved in the drug wars. 
 

Then there is Walt as the DEA representative. Again, every other season of Narcos was about DEA agents pushing to take down the drug trade while pushing their own morality and boundaries of what they’re willing to do. This season became about a really personal battle within Walt about a brother we don’t care about and some rich kid we don’t care about. 
 

I (and many others) would have preferred a focus on Amado (every other season of Narcos went into great detail about the structure cartel leaders went to to set up their systems, but Amado’s system was basically yada-yada’d to get back to other storylines), el Chapo (admittedly, he was in jail during the time frame but if this is the last season of the show people want to see more of a foreshadowing of what will come), and Mayra (agree with you that they touched on an interesting point with her leading the family and could have emphasized her if they wanted to showcase a woman but they basically abandoned that idea by the end of the show). 
 

It is what it is, just too bad they won’t be able to make a do over season. Considering the airport episode was filmed almost exactly like the scene from El Chapo, perhaps I’ll just go from S2 of Mexico and continue watching El Chapo as the true continuation of Narcos. 

[Ottis]

It took me a second to realize what the show was implying at the end, with the girlfriend in Chile, the two wine glasses and then finally the toy airplane that Amado had been seen with earlier. I had assumed it was her way of hoping each day for his return at first, and it was sad. But I looked up the real life story and saw how some people today believe he was successful in his plastic surgery and escaped, and I appreciated that ending much more.

This whole season felt like a transition to something else. Maybe other shows about the same characters? Unrest among the cartels in various states, Chapo in prison, Breslin transferring ... none of it led anywhere in particular.

Not complaining, though. It was a glimpse into the impacts of drug-related violence on all sorts of people, some civilians. And from what I could see online, it all continues today.

The B plot about Tapia was heartbreaking. A cop in a corrupt police force finally grows to care about something, puts himself in danger trying to protect innocents, nearly wrecks his marriage (?) with his late night pursuit of the killer, finally thinks he has the guy...

Spoiler

... and takes him out, and then finds out almost immediately that, like the drug problem, the killing of young women is way bigger than anything he can do alone. And then he dies for it.

Ugh.

On 11/11/2021 at 7:04 AM, Stan39 said:

I (and many others) would have preferred a focus on Amado (every other season of Narcos went into great detail about the structure cartel leaders went to to set up their systems, but Amado’s system was basically yada-yada’d to get back to other storylines)

Yeah, aside from the plane part, and some generic comments about creating disconnected cells, I didn't see what was so special about that system as presented by the show.

[Stan39]

12 minutes ago, Ottis said:

It took me a second to realize what the show was implying at the end, with the girlfriend in Chile, the two wine glasses and then finally the toy airplane that Amado had been seen with earlier. I had assumed it was her way of hoping each day for his return at first, and it was sad. But I looked up the real life story and saw how some people today believe he was successful in his plastic surgery and escaped, and I appreciated that ending much more.

This whole season felt like a transition to something else. Maybe other shows about the same characters? Unrest among the cartels in various states, Chapo in prison, Breslin transferring ... none of it led anywhere in particular.

Not complaining, though. It was a glimpse into the impacts of drug-related violence on all sorts of people, some civilians. And from what I could see online, it all continues today.

The B plot about Tapia was heartbreaking. A cop in a corrupt police force finally grows to care about something, puts himself in danger trying to protect innocents, nearly wrecks his marriage (?) with his late night pursuit of the killer, finally thinks he has the guy...

  Hide contents

... and takes him out, and then finds out almost immediately that, like the drug problem, the killing of young women is way bigger than anything he can do alone. And then he dies for it.

Ugh.

Yeah, aside from the plane part, and some generic comments about creating disconnected cells, I didn't see what was so special about that system as presented by the show.

They yada-yada’d the entire Amado plot. Keep in mind, S2 of Mexico was all about Felix out maneuvering the Columbians to try and get them to pay in cocaine so he can wholesale. Amado achieved that in one two minute scene, basically asking for the exact same thing, with the explanation that it was different for Amado “because they like him.”  Just lame. 

[larapu2000]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:53 AM, Stan39 said:

They yada-yada’d the entire Amado plot. Keep in mind, S2 of Mexico was all about Felix out maneuvering the Columbians to try and get them to pay in cocaine so he can wholesale. Amado achieved that in one two minute scene, basically asking for the exact same thing, with the explanation that it was different for Amado “because they like him.”  Just lame. 

They also yada-yada'd the brutal animal Amado was.  He was played by such an extraordinary actor that made him such a likeable character.....because they never had Amado actually DO that many horrifying things, when he did SO MANY and that's how he got in charge and stayed in charge.  

I need Pacho Herrera to just show up in random shows for cameos.  He's amazing.  And I will never tire of anyone calling Chapo "Chapito" because the actor playing him is actually super adorable.

It felt like every plot line except for Walt's was sidelined somehow.  It wasn't that there were so many storylines to track, it was just that every storyline somehow got short shrifted except for fucking Walt's, and he is BY FAR the worst central character of the show on every season.  Even Murphy was better than this guy.  

The actor playing the kid brother was fucking awful.  The reporter was fucking awful.  Walt's girlfriend was fucking awful.  

The women of Juarez deserve an entire miniseries or series for themselves.  They deserve way beyond being a minor storyline in a show about drug cartels, even if their deaths were cartel related or adjacent.  

Edited November 18, 2021 by larapu2000