S02.E04: Play With Friends

[Tara Ariano]

Joe and Gordon reunite to make Joe's vision a reality. Meanwhile, at Mutiny, tensions between Cameron and Donna run high in the aftermath of Sonaris.

[Primetimer]

Could there be a more dysfunctional work relationship than the one Cameron and Donna have forged with their down-in-the-dumps games company? Yes, Joe and Gordon announce. Yes, there could.

Read the story

[ketose]

I'm pretty sure they did not put stupid orange tips on toy guns in 1985. We lived by Darwin's law back then. I actually recognized a song for once, I just don't know the name. It was the one while Cameron and Tom were chatting.

 

So, I'm trying to figure out which RL / TV disease Gordon has. Maybe MS? With Donna knocked up, it may be something more serious.

 

So now Mutiny invents live-action FPS games? Wow, if a bus hit Cameron in 1982 we'd still be chatting on Apple II.

[shelwood]

Fairly sure Gordo has a brain tumor. 

 

Also fairly sure the kid from Up is one of the Mutiny coders.

[DrSpaceman]

I'm pretty sure they did not put stupid orange tips on toy guns in 1985. We lived by Darwin's law back then. I actually recognized a song for once, I just don't know the name. It was the one while Cameron and Tom were chatting.

 

So, I'm trying to figure out which RL / TV disease Gordon has. Maybe MS? With Donna knocked up, it may be something more serious.

 

So now Mutiny invents live-action FPS games? Wow, if a bus hit Cameron in 1982 we'd still be chatting on Apple II.

 

 

No kidding, this is what I am starting to find unbelievable about the show. 

 

So far Cameron has come up with first person shooter games and last season saw the future with a computer that interacts more with the use. 

 

And Mutiny has come up with the idea of the chat room as well. 

 

Al Gore was wrong, according to this show.  Mutiny invented the internet.  And personal commputing as we know it.  And probably the iphone and ipad before the show is over. 

 

So Joe and Gordon are just illegally breaking into and using  a mainframe for a major company with no permission and no knowledge of this by the company?  Joe better be the one that ends up in jail this time. 

[attica]

The fashion pedant in me has to correct Philip's description of Bozwear as a Cosby sweater. No, sorry, that's  Fair Isle sweater; Cosby wore Coogis. Fair Isles being much more common in the burbs, much cheaper than Coogis, since they could easily be made with acrylic.

 

I'll take my portion of credit for calling Gordon's issues last ep, thanks.

 

I'll miss Yo-Yo.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I actually feel kind of bad for Gordon.  He's pretty good at what he does, and I don't mind him when he's being a decent husband/father.  I was thinking he might have MS as well, with him struggling with his hands in the last episode.

 

Sad to see Yo-Yo leave Mutiny, but I don't blame the guy.  It's basically a frat house, there's no organization, nobody's getting paid, and any future income depends solely on Mutiny being successful.  I mean, I know that things are probably going to work out in the end since it's Cameron, and the show seems to be pushing the Cameron is awesome angle this season, but I would have bounced too.  Working an actual 9 to 5 job has to be better than hanging out at Mutiny all day and then pushing shopping carts/stocking grocery shelves in the wee hours of the night.

 

Bos continues to be great.  He has a knack for reading people and saying exactly what they want to hear.  I hope that he has a significant role going forward, he deserves something good after being in prison.

 

Hey, I liked that one guy's idea for a game: find and kill E.T. before he steals your Reese's Pieces.  That guy telling him it was the worst idea ever was wrong!

 

Joe knows Gordon too well.  When the two were talking about Gordon helping Joe out, and Gordon was making all of his demands, Joe said something like "What did you screw up at Mutiny."  Ha!  I'm glad that we're slowly connecting storylines here, because Joe was starting to feel pretty isolated.

 

I don't really like Cameron, I think she's dismissive of other people's ideas, she disrespects nearly everybody, she tries to steamroll people, and I'm not sure why anyone would be attracted to her personality, but I think it's sweet that Tom has noticed what her favorite snacks are.  You know what actor he reminds me sooo much of?  Rupert Penry-Jones.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Snowprince]

 

 

Al Gore was wrong, according to this show.  Mutiny invented the internet. 

It wasn't even Mutiny, it was CAMERON! All by her awesome self! We should all be eternally grateful that the most creative technical mind in the history of humankind single handedly laid the foundation for the entire world as we know it today!

 

And still despite all that, the only thing I want to do with Cameron is punch her in the mouth. 

[dubbel zout]

I'm trying to figure out which RL / TV disease Gordon has. Maybe MS?

 

That was my guess, too. I don't think they want to make Gordon into Stephen Hawking.

 

Every time Joe gets called out, an angel gets its wings. I loved how the head IT guy (or whoever he was) knew exactly who Joe was and slapped him down to size. So of course he goes ahead unauthorized. 

 

 

 

Al Gore was wrong, according to this show.  Mutiny invented the internet.

It wasn't even Mutiny, it was CAMERON! All by her awesome self! We should all be eternally grateful that the most creative technical mind in the history of humankind single handedly laid the foundation for the entire world as we know it today!

 

They need to give her bigger setbacks with larger stakes. I had to laugh at her disbelief/umbrage when some of the coders picked up and left. Girl, you told them to leave if they didn't want to work for equity stakes. Some people need to pay their bills.

 

(Welcome back, Snowprince!)

Edited June 22, 2015 by dubbel zout

[DrSpaceman]

I was suprised more people didn't leave when told they would not be paid. 

 

I don't think Gordad has MS.  You don't pass out or black out like that with MS, typically.  ANd her trouble with his fingers/hands would be more likely simple carpal tunnel than MS, just playing the odds in real life. 

 

But this is TV, so who knows what they are going for here.  Could be anything.  They did for the cliche woman is vomiting/nauseated so she is pregnaent. 

 

If I had my guess I would say he is still doing drugs.  I couldn't tell from the scene they showed, was he trying to jog and was just really out of shape and couldn't?  Or was he at the end of a jog and just worn out? 

Edited June 22, 2015 by DrSpaceman

[AConspiracy]

I was just assuming Gordon is having effects from the drug use. Either leftover from when he did them or he still is using sometimes.

[Texasmom1970]

From other postings I know I am about alone on this but I like Cameron. I think the actress and writers are doing a good job of portraying her. They are showing immaturity that comes with her youth, her temper how she is especially when her vision is not coming to fruition they way she is seeing it in her head, how people who are passionate about an idea can get tunnel vision and forget about everyone and everything around them, the selfishness, the drive.

In this episode we did see a bit of her becoming more mature and realizing the effect her words and actions have on others. I don't think she will ever change completely, but that would go against the type of person they wrote her as and that is fine with me.

[Yolapukka]

 

So far Cameron has come up with first person shooter games and last season saw the future with a computer that interacts more with the use.

 

 

I think they are suggesting she's in on early versions of commercial MMORPG type games, not inventing first person shooters and as both  shooters and games that were played on networks with multiple players existed in the 1970's, she is really very far from being on the crest of originating the concept. The show is depicting the notion that she's on the leading edge of commercialization. As to succeeding in commercializing them...  they are severely limited by the technology available, it's costs and Mutiny is a mess. I want to see more employees jump ship, especially since Cameron handles people so badly. I do hope we see Yo-Yo back, he's my favourite of the secondary cast.  The fact that he took his stuff and left does confirm that he no longer lives there and Cameron/Mutiny took over the lease at some point.

 

I like the addition of Tom even though something about the character reads as a little off. For one, his character interests me even when his secrets turn out to be fairly milquetoast, like working an entry-level night job rather than some Machiavellian plot to take over Mutiny. Well, so far anyway.

 

 Agreed that the "kill ET" game sounded fun, maybe if they stripped that concept of the copyrighted content and used original characters they could have gone with it. It did make me laugh though, because even as someone who was only dimly aware of gaming at the time, I remembered that an ET game for Atari was reputed as one of the worst games ever in terms of gameplay and was a massive commercial failure.  As far as that goes, the Bee-keeping game that was proposed last season sounded an awful lot like the kind of play that makes tamagotchis and Farmville successful.

 

I don't like where the show is going with Donna being pregnant at the same time Gordon is showing early symptoms of a serious movie-of-the-week illness. It's far too soapy for me. Good thing that at least both actors seem well-capable of carrying and possibly elevating the material. Still, my reaction is bleah.

 

I think I might have more enthusiasm for Joe's enthusiasms if he didn't react like a scolded child every time someone called him on bullshit and using his connections to get ahead. Same goes for his acting out by doing what he wants anyway. At least he's no longer playing apartment baseball when he has a bad day. He was going to get glass splinters in his face with that pastime. ("You'll Put Your Eye Out" rule)

 

Overall I found the episode hugely enjoyable, even if most of the characters can annoy the crap out of me.

Edited June 25, 2015 by yuggapukka

[dubbel zout]

I couldn't tell from the scene they showed, was he trying to jog and was just really out of shape and couldn't?  Or was he at the end of a jog and just worn out?

Both? He did race to the house when he saw Joe so he'd be out of breath—"Just getting in my seven miles," heh—but I also don't think of Gordon as someone all that committed to exercise in the first place. He was probably jogging because he's bored while the girls are at school.

 

I rolled my eyes with Donna's pregnancy, too. I hope it's a false alarm. (I'm not sure how accurate home tests were back then.)

[TVHappy9463]

I am willing to bet Gordon's issues are related to his cocaine. Maybe Donna is going to have an abortion, I think basic cable can get anyway with it.  I need more Joe, less Cameron.  

[thuganomics85]

Surprise, surprise: Cameron continues to treat Donna like shit, but still doesn't suffer many repercussions from it.  Sure, Donna snaps at her, but they already seem over it at the end of the episode, and she's once again acting like she is "maturing", but she'll probably regress again, once shit hits the fan.  As much as they annoy me too, at least Gordon and even Joe actually get knocked down pegs.  After enjoying her during the later half of the first season, between this and pretty much inventing first person shooters, we're going back to the Cameron I don't like.  Even this Tom dude has gone past being a challenge, but just a love interest.  At least Cameron is behind on the times when it comes to online chatting, so that makes her, I don't know, a mere 95% perfect, compared to 100%.

 

And good grief, they really are going to make Donna pregnant again, aren't they?  Come on, show.  To think I expected better of you.

 

Joe and Gordon teaming back up is hilarious.  They are so bad for each other, but I can buy it.  I think they are just drawn towards each other somehow, and almost need each other, to really feel like they are accomplishing something.  But I love that Gordon actually wondered if Sara was hired by Joe to be his girlfriend.  Gordon really would think Joe was capable of that.  Of course, looks like Gordon is all kinds of fucked up, so I have no idea what will happen to him.

 

At least John Bosworth showed his worth, by getting some of Mutiny's customers back.  John Bosworth is awesome.

 

I actually liked that Yo-Yo was one of the few to leave, even though I will miss him.  He's only supporting character, but he had enough of a presence to him, that it was a pretty big deal for him to throw in the towel, and I could buy everyone being stunned over it.  Of course, Cameron had to be a passive snit about it, but that's just Classic Cameron.

[riverheightsnancy]

Yeah, I will miss Yo-Yo too. I liked him, even if it was just for his name and demeanor. I think that they have too many people in the house. Way too may. I think that they could get more done with less people, but those that are more dedicated or committed. Perhaps it is not realistic, but I have been watching Silicon Valley (thanks for the recommendation-I kinda love it), and they illustrate how you could get something major done with a lot less people, or farming out specifics, if need be. It seems like a lot of those guys there do nothing and are using it as a crash pad. I was starting to wonder last night if everyone in their house was sick. Donna was saying that she was sick and Gordon was having symptoms, one of the kids was sick. I starting wondering if there is some type of poison or toxin that could be in the water or in the house (radon, gas)? But then they showed Donna being pregnant, so scratch that. I think that the inclusion of Donna being pregnant, shows how different women's careers are. Because a pregnancy can derail everything you are on the cusp of achieving. Especially if Gordon is also now really sick. I thought this was the best episode this season so far. 

[OrientalAmish]

I fucking love the relationship between Bos + Cam.... That is all I have to say....

Edited June 22, 2015 by OrientalAmish

[AlwaysWatching]

My roommate was in on the beginnings of putting computers together and could have made a great career from this very early computer wizardry.  She chose to be a math teacher instead. Anyway, she has had two, possibly three friends from this period die of brain tumors.  The people who were in front (actually she just told me it was the back of the monitors) of these early monitors, and possibly other materials, for days and weeks at a time...even years, did seem to pay a very high price.  I'm not sure anyone could prove that it was the computers, but her friends all think it seemed to more than coincidence.   When I saw Gordon's nosebleed a couple weeks ago, I immediately went to brain tumor.  I also had a friend who had a brain tumor, fortunately it was benign, but one of her symptoms was falling down.  That and the unbelievable headaches.  I really like Gordon's character and I hope he doesn't die from whatever he ends up having.

 

I also love Cameron.  She's written to be a selfish arsehole most of time and that's fine with me.  Since I'm not up on all the computer history, I take this show as total fiction and it doesn't bother me that they might be recreating a whole different scenario that what actually happened.   Cameron and Donna and the actors who portray them are doing a great job this season.   I do see how long time gamers would have a problem with a lot of what they are showing about how this particular gaming activity started.  I'm 100 percent NOT a gamer.  So this show suits me just find in the lousy facts department.

 

I am a bit surprised that they have put Lee Pace kind of on the back-burner.  That will probably change during the season.  This is one my favorite shows right now. It might be my favorite....oh, I always say that.

[Bort]

I really related to Cameron essentially committing a reply-all faux pas (I know I've shot my mouth off and didn't notice the person could hear me), I was cringing in sympathy. However, I couldn't help but crack up at Cameron recoiling in horror at the realization. That was just well done, there.

[Anela]

Is Tom supposed to be sick, as well? 

[88Keys]

 

It wasn't even Mutiny, it was CAMERON! All by her awesome self! We should all be eternally grateful that the most creative technical mind in the history of humankind single handedly laid the foundation for the entire world as we know it today!

 

Well, to be fair, Donna invented the chat room.

 

 

 Agreed that the "kill ET" game sounded fun, maybe if they stripped that concept of the copyrighted content and used original characters they could have gone with it. It did make me laugh though, because even as someone who was only dimly aware of gaming at the time, I remembered that an ET game for Atari was reputed as one of the worst games ever in terms of gameplay and was a massive commercial failure.

 

 

It was.  It totally, totally was.  Am I the only person here who has actually played it?  Even my six year-old self could see how stupid the game was.  I remember my ET falling down into a pit, and there was no way to get him out.  You just had to sit there until time ran out or re-start the whole game. 

[dubbel zout]

I really related to Cameron essentially committing a reply-all faux pas (I know I've shot my mouth off and didn't notice the person could hear me), I was cringing in sympathy. However, I couldn't help but crack up at Cameron recoiling in horror at the realization. That was just well done, there.

 

I also liked the house holding its collective breath waiting for Donna to read it.

 

One place I worked had an e-mail program with a short delay before a message got sent. It showed up in people's mailboxes, but it was locked, so no one could read it. I don't know why that isn't a standard function.

[tennisgurl]

I loved how all the guys looked like they were about to grab into something solid, in case they were blown away in the storm, when Donna walked into the house, after Cam sent her message. 

 

I knew Joe and Gordan would end up working together again. For all their weird issues, they actually seem to like/respect each other. I kind of hope we get to see Cam and Joe meet up again. Not because I care about them being together, I just want to see how that would go. 

 

Is this going to turn into some kind of alternate universe? Like, how in the Quentin Tarantino universe, Hitler was gunned down by The Bear Jew and blown up by an angry French woman? In this universe, the internet was invented by Cam and Donna and a house full of boozy techies? 

[ketose]

I was starting to wonder last night if everyone in their house was sick. Donna was saying that she was sick and Gordon was having symptoms, one of the kids was sick. I starting wondering if there is some type of poison or toxin that could be in the water or in the house (radon, gas)? But then they showed Donna being pregnant, so scratch that. I think that the inclusion of Donna being pregnant, shows how different women's careers are. Because a pregnancy can derail everything you are on the cusp of achieving. Especially if Gordon is also now really sick. I thought this was the best episode this season so far. 

I was thinking Radon for a minute, since that was a big 80's scare, but it's unlikely since Gordon is in an above-ground garage.

 

I also liked the house holding its collective breath waiting for Donna to read it.

 

One place I worked had an e-mail program with a short delay before a message got sent. It showed up in people's mailboxes, but it was locked, so no one could read it. I don't know why that isn't a standard function.

MS Outlook let's you recall a sent message, but it hardly ever works at my job. The president of my division sent out an e-mail with comments about a couple of employees and most of the recalls failed.

[Kel Varnsen]

Cameron inventing a first person shooter seems like a bit much. I am curious to see what it would look like on a commodore 64 with a 1985 modem. Why not just make a multi-player version of their tank battle game. Seems like that would be more reasonable.

 

I had to laugh at Donna's comment about how community is great because it allows posters to be their true selves. If you changed the tone of her speech and some of the words a bit, it could easily be a speech about how community is awesome because it lets people be anonymous assholes on the internet.

 

Also too bad Yo-yo quit just as Bos was coming on as a full time employee. I was hoping that Bos might start coming up with nicknames for the coders. Preferably names like Fatty, Stinky and Brooklyn. 

 

Was also interested that Gordon tried to order an Anchor Steam at the bar where he met Joe. Anchor Steam is a great beer, but I was curious and it seems like it was just starting to get national distribution in the mid-1980's. So I was kind of surprised that a guy from Texas would be ordering a beer from San Francisco. But then I remembered that Gordon studied at Berkeley, so it I guess made sense.  

[dubbel zout]

I had to laugh at Donna's comment about how community is great because it allows posters to be their true selves. If you changed the tone of her speech and some of the words a bit, it could easily be a speech about how community is awesome because it lets people be anonymous assholes on the internet.

 

And that's exactly what happened when Cam sent her message to everyone (even though it wasn't exactly anonymous).

[SonofaBiscuit]

I wonder if Gordon is going to go into business building custom computers.  When he was speaking with Joe, he mentioned something about wishing that people would just tell him what they wanted, because he's tired of trying to guess.  I really have no idea when customized computers became a thing, but if Cameron can invent the internet, Gordon can can be among the first to tailor computers to user's needs.

[scowl]

Cameron inventing a first person shooter seems like a bit much. I am curious to see what it would look like on a commodore 64 with a 1985 modem. Why not just make a multi-player version of their tank battle game. Seems like that would be more reasonable.

 

They already had a multi-player version of their tank game. That's what Gordon was flipping out on because the winner often depended on which modem was polled first.

 

I looked around and I couldn't find any multi-user games before the late 80's and even those were only played in colleges where we had networks. I also can't find a technical reason why these games couldn't have worked. You don't have to pass much data very quickly to move a thing around a low-resolution screen.

[Kel Varnsen]

They already had a multi-player version of their tank game. That's what Gordon was flipping out on because the winner often depended on which modem was polled first.

Sorry, what I meant by multi-player is more than just two players. Like a version of tank battle with like 10 players who can play at the same time. 

[marys1000]

I think Gordon has had idea's and has been shown as having some creativity but it was interesting to hear him say "just tell me what you want to build, I can build anything" because I think this is why he and Joe make such a good pair.  Joe is all mach 2 idea's and Gordon is mostly make the mechanics happen.  So he sort of was acknowledging that. 

So far this seems to be the Cameron show and I would like a little more Joe. 

Cameron, wow.  If she was only open to Donna as she is to Bosworth.  Loved it when Donna asked Cameron - is it because it wasn't your idea. 

 

Not sure why Donna hasn't taken community and jumped ship and gone into community business with Gordon.  They don't need Joe's mainframe for that.  Seriously. 

 

Gordon to Joe - "Donna and I tell each other everything" and the whole episode is about them hiding stuff from each other!

 

I'd like to say I'm really enjoying the show, its jelled at this point.  Hope there is a S3, even if it has to be on Netflix after cable has cancelled like so many of my favorite shows these days.

Edited June 23, 2015 by marys1000

[scowl]

Sorry, what I meant by multi-player is more than just two players. Like a version of tank battle with like 10 players who can play at the same time. 

 

Yes, I think their "new idea" of people running around shooting each other isn't much more than expanding their tank game just like what you're describing. A bigger maze and more players. If the show suddenly presents us with a 3D image of a maze on a little Commodore-64 then the show will be a joke.

 

Also two players in a small maze was nearly bringing their system to its knees. I'm sure Cameron will solve that problem.

[scowl]

My roommate was in on the beginnings of putting computers together and could have made a great career from this very early computer wizardry.  She chose to be a math teacher instead. Anyway, she has had two, possibly three friends from this period die of brain tumors.  The people who were in front (actually she just told me it was the back of the monitors) of these early monitors, and possibly other materials, for days and weeks at a time...even years, did seem to pay a very high price.

 

I'm still in touch with five fellow nerds I grew up with and we spent thousands of hours in front of computer monitors or all types. No brain tumors among us but one guy did get testicular cancer and this was before laptop computers were invented.

[DrSpaceman]

Yes, I think their "new idea" of people running around shooting each other isn't much more than expanding their tank game just like what you're describing. A bigger maze and more players. If the show suddenly presents us with a 3D image of a maze on a little Commodore-64 then the show will be a joke.

 

Also two players in a small maze was nearly bringing their system to its knees. I'm sure Cameron will solve that problem.

 

 

I think it is much different than the tank game and those like them.  The tank game you can see the whole screen, you have an external view and know where the other person is at all times.  I think that is much different than being given a view inside the game where you don't know where everyone is, don't have a global view of where you are going and have to integrate all the info at once to determine what to do next 

[scowl]

I think it is much different than the tank game and those like them.  The tank game you can see the whole screen, you have an external view and know where the other person is at all times.  I think that is much different than being given a view inside the game where you don't know where everyone is, don't have a global view of where you are going and have to integrate all the info at once to determine what to do next 

 

Did they mention anything about visibility? Remember that Cameron tends to babble ideas with no regard to whether they're practical or not.

 

If they do implement visibility, it's just an additional feature to the existing tank maze game. They could drop it if it's too difficult. You'd still have players running around shooting each other. 

 

Augh, now I'm thinking about arrays of vectors to determine what walls would be visible at an coordinates. Looks like there would be serious geometry to do this correctly. 

[hincandenza]

I enjoyed this episode; drama-wise, I think they're doing a much better job than last year.  For example, while I loathe Cameron the character, things like her pettiness when people actually did leave after her "stay or go, your choice" offer are true-to-character.  I am, as promised, disappointed Joe had to go do the rogue thing, again, and that Gordon went along with it, again.

 

I didn't read too much into the FPS discussion with Tom: bouncing ideas off each other is natural, and it's not like the graphical limitations of the day didn't prevent the coders of that era from dreaming big.  And honestly... while it would be quite an accomplishment and more than a little truth-stretchy, Mutiny could plausibly release a primitive maze-like FPS even with the tech of the day.  Their rapid-fire breakdown of what it would take was pie-in-the-sky but not impossible; the computer itself would do the math of the angles and rendering, with a small amount of network traffic to note position in the maze and orientation, and thus compute whether another player was in your view, and send those few bytes back to the user's computer.  If you got a starting packet denoting the location of all players, each having an x,y value in a virtual 256x256 square maze (16 bits), and an orientation of one of the 4- or 8- compass directions (2-3 bits), and maybe even add a subposition for the square you were standing (2-4 bits, subdividing each square into zones so you could be "against the left wall" etc)... that's 23bits per person to get a starting game layout from the server.  The game starting would require the server to pick random places, and send every user in a 5x5 game 230 bits + error correction/checksums, plus another few seconds of download to get the usernames/team names.  After which you'd only need to do station keeping updates (aka, "dead reckoning") plus periodic full updates to make sure you haven't gotten out of sync by missing an update message.  Each user then either moves a block (sub-block), or fires, or does nothing.  0 = idle, 1-9 = the 8 directions you can potentially travel from your current square (or subsquare), 10-11= turn left or right, 12 = fire primary weapon, 13 = secondary weapon... it'd only take 4 bits to define a player's actions in a timeslice (with a few numbers left for additional features/actions).

 

So every update pushed to the user is the list of 10 users, at 4 bits per change, so 40 bits per update for the game engine on your PC to know which users to render and where (you could also send a much shorter list of just users in their area, at 8 bits per 'row', so you only tell them when someone is near enough they could see/interact with them).  You could send 3 or 4 of these per second to each player while also allowing a player to send up several movements/actions per second, using Gordon's timestamp idea to ensure that the server is basically doing a 4 times per second round-based game... but at 4 "actions" per second allowed to a player, seem fairly real-time.  The player hits the arrow keys to move or space bar to fire, rendering it locally while sending data up to the server where it can be updated in the central table and the other players see it in their next sub-second update.  With probably a 300-400ms lag, you'd see people show up locally in the war maze, and be able to fire at them/move over to dodge (hence the subzones).  Honestly, I think at 300baud, you could actually have a semi-realtime FPS in 1985, where the server is simply computing position updates and tables and sending out updates to the ~10 connected players, with periodic full location updates (19 bits per) for each user, to ensure player location doesn't get out of sync with a couple of missed packets.

 

 

Sorry, geeked out a bit there.  :)  I think my mind went where scowl's did, imagining just drawing lines on the screen like a 3D wireframe representation of walls and corridors... but as it happens, even in 1983/84 on things like a Commodore64 or IBM PC, you could get color versions of Flight Simulator 2.0, which looks to me like a computer that could render a simplistic "Doom" style FPS with block color walls.  Below are screenshots of Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.0 in 1982, and 2.0 in 1984, running on an (emulated) IBM-PC.  This suggests that you could have plausible first-person graphics while sending a few bytes of data back and forth each second over a modem to keep multiple human players in sync.

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by hincandenza

[Hanahope]

My first thought when Cameron was going on about fps games was Castle Wolfenstein. 

 

I also called Donna's pregnancy the moment she remarked on coming down with Katie's flu.  I certainly would not expect her to divorce Gordon, after all, not many men, particularly in that time, would support a woman's desire to work in the tech field.  And I lol'd when Donna was so worried about being late to work, when Cameron rolls out of bed whenever she feels like it.

[dubbel zout]

I lol'd when Donna was so worried about being late to work, when Cameron rolls out of bed whenever she feels like it.

Most of that was so Donna wouldn't have to talk to Gordon.

[DrSpaceman]

Did they mention anything about visibility? Remember that Cameron tends to babble ideas with no regard to whether they're practical or not.

 

If they do implement visibility, it's just an additional feature to the existing tank maze game. They could drop it if it's too difficult. You'd still have players running around shooting each other. 

 

Augh, now I'm thinking about arrays of vectors to determine what walls would be visible at an coordinates. Looks like there would be serious geometry to do this correctly. 

She didn't mention specifically what she meant, but they were running around playing a game in the house shooting at each other, so I assumed that is pretty much what she envisioned as the game as well, which is different than the tank game.  Its a different perspective and changes the game strategy to quite a degree. 

 

I don't know how much different is from a programming standpoint, which isn't really my point.  Its a small change but a significant one in terms of how the game is played and what the game is like though to go from the view you have on the tank game to the view you have in FPS games. 

 

You could compare it to racing games, same sort of idea.  There were a whole bunch of racing games where you run a car around a track.  Then someone came up with Pole Position though, which was basically the first hugely popular first person racing gaming. You are behind the wheel driving, a different view of the track just as a racecar driving would theoretically see it, its a whole different game that way.  There may have been some others before, but its the main arcade racing game everyone remembers with that perspective. ANd Pole position I know was popular and played at the time of these episodes, so I am sure a similar shooting game could have been made. 

 

There were many games at the time where you tried to shoot people around a grid, like the tank game.  There would be nothing noteworthy or new about that idea, except you would be playing online against others instead of against others in the same room on a game console.  I assumed for that reason she meant a true first person shooter perspective online game, not another type of grid based shooting game.

[scowl]

Yes, flight simulator even worked on the Apple II with no graphics chips, but remember how quickly it updated the screen? About once per second. It looked wonderful but I don't believe this speed would be acceptable for a shooter game even in 1985. "Pole Position" looks good for 1984 but it sounds like that updated the screen about two or three times a second at best so I don't know whether that would work well enough on a dynamic map with restricted visibility. I think Mutiny would be better off expanding their existing tank game with the familiar side scrolling maze. That's what Beyond Castle Wolfstein still used in 1984 and I doubt even a superprogrammer like Cameron could write a 3D game in a couple of weeks.

 

But this is television so I may have to suspend even more belief next episode!

 

There's no doubt that even 300 baud modems would be fast enough to pass the small amount of information needed for a multiuser game.

[AlwaysWatching]

AlwaysWatching, on 22 Jun 2015 - 7:05 PM, said:

    My roommate was in on the beginnings of putting computers together and could have made a great career from this very early computer wizardry.  She chose to be a math teacher instead. Anyway, she has had two, possibly three friends from this period die of brain tumors.  The people who were in front (actually she just told me it was the back of the monitors) of these early monitors, and possibly other materials, for days and weeks at a time...even years, did seem to pay a very high price.

 

 

I'm still in touch with five fellow nerds I grew up with and we spent thousands of hours in front of computer monitors or all types. No brain tumors among us but one guy did get testicular cancer and this was before laptop computers were invented. scowl

 

 

I should not have made it sound like it was anything more than an awful coincidence.  It's probably more true that people who spent this much time staring at or working on turned on computers would suffer back and neck problems and some irritating eye strain that caused headaches.  I was just very curious to what illness they are giving to Gordon in the story and why they might have picked that particular one. 

 

Again, I don't want him to die.  I like him so much more this season than last.

[hincandenza]

Yeah, we give Gordon a lot of flack, but he's a pretty good guy. Certainly he's a better father now, and a good provider (and truthfully, as it turned out it was for the family's best that he was a mess for 6-9 months, since it basically made them millionaires). He's supportive and considerate, and respects his wife and her own career ambitions. Even by today's standards, he's a good husband; by 1985 standards, he's a catch!

Which is why I hope he isn't terribly sick, or that he doesn't suffer some other great misfortune now that he's become re-entangled with Joemaggedon. He and Donna are a great pair to be the core of our show, relatable and very well-acted by both Scoot McNair and Kerry Bishe. I think Donna is well acted as well, even though I don't like her character. Bos is fantastic; when he was swaying that kid's mom on his doorstep, I had the thought, "you know, if they ended up pivoting in season 3 to make Bos a central lead, I will not be unhappy...". Joe/Lee Pace is the only weak spot for me, and I think that's as much on the writers as on Pace; his character and motivations remain nebulous to me.

[marys1000]

Seems obvious that this mainframe scheme is supposed to be used by Mutiny but really will Donna and Cameron want to get in on a scheme

with Joe? Or especially Cameron having anything to do with something Gordon was involved with.

  Especially a scheme which is illegal although Gordon probably wont tell.  .  I can see Cameron desperate enough if her new

game requires even more computing power.  Not sure about Donna. 

But Joe, I know he's trying to prove to the company that this is money  make but I can't see getting more potential clients other than Mutiny and

I don't see Mutiny being other than a financial mess unless Bosworth steps in.  Given that he's maybe still on parole, or certainly doesn't want to

risk going back to jail, wouldn't want to get involved in something illegal, if he knows that it is.

[hincandenza]

Unless he's dumb, once Gordon finished the install he would never go near that place again. That way if the shit hits the fan he, Donna, Bos, and the rest of Mutiny can simply say that Joe came to Gordon as an old colleague, and they had no idea he wasn't doing it with the company's approval.

Joe is presumably banking on getting revenue in quickly, going to his intermediate boss, and saying "It's making money, let's both go to the big boss and tell him about our big idea", and poof- the idea is fully legitimate and approved. A shocking number of people in business do that kind of fake it till you make it gambit; hell, that's basically what Bos did when he embezzled, once he had guzzled the "Giant" Kool-Aid. Knowing this show, I'll be surprised if somehow this doesn't bite Joe in the ass, to everyone else's great detriment.

[qtpye]

I was hoping that Bos might start coming up with nicknames for the coders. Preferably names like Fatty, Stinky and Brooklyn.

 

 

They were a lot like you guys, except one of them was from Brooklyn.

 

Just to clarify, I am quoting the late great Cotton Hill and not implying that the posters on this board are fat or stink.

[How Bout That]

 

There were many games at the time where you tried to shoot people around a grid, like the tank game.  There would be nothing noteworthy or new about that idea, except you would be playing online against others instead of against others in the same room on a game console.  I assumed for that reason she meant a true first person shooter perspective online game, not another type of grid based shooting game.

 

 

 

Not for nothing but Pole Position and Flight Simulator were not FPS's just FP's.

 

BattleZone is the first FPS I remember playing and that came out in about 1982. Since their original lineup contains a tank battle game, this would fit right in. Sure, it already existed by 1985 but since the show is constantly rewriting history, why not?

[ganesh]

I don't actually care about the show playing fast and loose with history. It's a fun show and I'm entertained. 

 

I think it was a good idea to get Joe and Gordon together rather quick into the season. I always liked how Joe does respect Gordon's and Donna's talents.

 

I don't see Cameron's mouthing off about Donna and Gordon to be that bad. She's still a dumb kid in many ways. She apologized. I don't think it's that huge. 

 

I'm enjoying Bos this season, and I agree that he needs to boss everyone around. 

[dubbel zout]

I don't see Cameron's mouthing off about Donna and Gordon to be that bad. She's still a dumb kid in many ways. She apologized. I don't think it's that huge.

 

It was extremely disrespectful, and Donna doesn't get much respect in the first place from anyone, including Cameron. Everyone thinks of her as "Mom," which isn't a compliment in this context. Just because Cameron doesn't want Donna's life at the moment doesn't mean she should belittle it to her co-workers, privately or otherwise.

[ganesh]

No, she shouldn't. But it's not something that's going to tear apart the company either. Donna chews her out for it, Cameron apologizes, and they move on. No one's said anything in a private moment that maybe they shouldn't have? I thought it was a smidge over the top in order to show that Donna's chat room idea is a good one, and that Cameron shouldn't be running the company. 

 

Gordon and Joe didn't treat Cameron so great either. Donna isn't privy to that. Venting once and a while isn't the end of the world. Hardly the first two people running a company who weren't completely in love. 

[ganesh]

D!

Edited June 25, 2015 by ganesh