Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[pennben]

Hmm, John talking to Vanessa, seems like they are talking about taking out Austin. They really do have good game conversations when they have them. I can never figure out what is real (have also learned I don't speak skittles), so who knows what is going to happen. I would be freaking awful at this game.

 

Damn feeds going down tomorrow.

Edited September 14, 2015 by pennben

[gina64]

Vanessa- Are you starting to feel like a bad person? John- I hate all of you. You all need to go. I dont feel bad at all

 

This is why I just can't quit him :-).

 

From what I can tell from the updates, Vanessa said she's fine with whoever he votes out, and he's going to vote out Steve. Or not. After last season, so much uncertainty at f5 is awesome.

[aurora296]

Everyone's so afraid of"blood on their hands", but when it's the final 2 trying to convince the jury, what is Vanessa going to say? "Yes, I had a hand in almost all the evictions in this house. I have the most blood on my hands of anyone." versus Jmac, "I threw comps when you asked me to or when I needed to, I was never in an alliance., I got evicted but won my way back into the house fair and square, won 4 vetoes when I needed to and not one drop of blood on these hands."   

[blixie]

 

 

I think he's right that if Vanessa approaches him about saving Steve, it's probably for real, and otherwise was probably just her gathering info,

 

Eh that's exactly what she did do in the 92% conversation, though so I'm not sure what his hesitancy is about. Well let me rephrase I understand his hesitancy to a point he does need to know he has Vanessa's vote, but she was essentially telling him that was her plan/vote.  I think the two of them playing chicken/possum over this is dumb from both sides since they both want Austin the fuck out, and this whole idea that they have to worry about being exposed in some way that they are not already exposed is stupid, and of the two Van is clearly more exposed because she's betraying a long term alliance and John is fucking over someone he's never really worked with the whole game, his risks are not the same. So just DO EET. 

[Lady Calypso]

I hope that this conversation between Vanessa and John is real. That would mean Vanessa would legit be making a big move by getting rid of her actual threat to winning. She may not realize it, but Austin's the only one that is standing in her way of the win. She may think it's John, but he won't win against her. Neither will Steve, and I don't think Liz will either. But Austin? That's her threat right there and it's absolutely better for her if she gets rid of him now.

 

So, is John going to keep a guy who wouldn't bring him to the finals, or will he keep the two that would at least consider it? Sure, sticking with Austin/Liz will get him through to final 3...but let's say Austin does win HOH. He puts up John/Vanessa and Vanessa wins veto. That gives her the power to get rid of someone and who knows? Maybe that'll be a big 'make it or break it' for him. 

 

I just REALLY need Austin to go, because he's in the way of a female winner this season, goddamnit! 

[blixie]

 

She may not realize it, but Austin's the only one that is standing in her way of the win. She may think it's John, but he won't win against her. Neither will Steve, and I don't think Liz will either.

 

I mostly agree, with this stupid Jury John probably has the best chance, then Steve/Liz she could probably both beat in all three cases it maybe close though. But yeah I think the only one I believe she can't beat is Austin.

[pennben]

Honestly, I think they all need Austin out this week.  I'm not sure how to get him out after this, and he has a helluva shot to win against anyone.

[kellog010]

Honestly, I think they all need Austin out this week.  I'm not sure how to get him out after this, and he has a helluva shot to win against anyone.

 

I agree. It's even better for Liz because in F2, Austin would beat her just on the fact he's a dude. This would actually be a good move for John/Steve because Vanessa would be the bad person and no one is going to pick Vanessa for F3. In this scenario, they only way I see her staying is if she wins veto. John and Steve should absolutely prefer to go F3 with Liz.

 

As a Vanessa fan, I want her to win because she's played this entire game. However, the one person I don't want to win if she's evicted is Austin.

Edited September 14, 2015 by kellog010

[blixie]

Watching that John/Van conversation and yeah I hope it was sincere, it *felt* sincere as close as they both get, but I'm not sure where it *landed* exactly. I would hope John walked away confident if he evicts Austin Van will back him up. I also liked that Van was like Steve/Austin want to know how the vote is going and she was like fuck it, we are making a tv show and we don't need to ruin the suspense EVERY week. Heheh I think the DR must have had some feedback for her this week.

[me5671]

Maybe Im crazy but I would be terrified of going against JMac in a F2. The jury loves him. He has 4 POV wins. And also he has the coolest story to tell...it was me against the 5-person alliance that dominated the game, and against all odds I made it all the way to F2!

Johnny Mac does have a cool story to tell. The problem is two-fold: 1.) I'm not sure JM is smart enough to convey the story to the jury, or even to know that it is his best argument in the first place; 2.) I don't think a lot of the jurors will know the story and believe it. ADC stayed willfully in the dark about the alliance through their respective evictions. Even when Audrey spelled it out for them that there was an alliance, they didn't believe it. I don't think they'll believe it even now. Hell, I'm not even sure Meg knows what an alliance is.

[Brian Cronin]

I don't want John to vote out Steve, but it really does put him into a really nice spot to get to F3. It hurts him with F2, no doubt about it, but if you're given a clear path to F3, knowing you'll automatically be eligible to play for the F3 HoH, I don't know how you pass it up in favor of improved odds IF you get to F2 while heavily reduced offs of getting to F3. 

 

If John votes out Steve, he'll have a 1/3 chance at HoH (and therefore automatically making F3) and then he'll have a 3/4 chance that someone other than Vanessa will win the F4 POV, in which case he makes it to F3, as well. Those are really good odds. 

 

If John votes out Austin, he'll have a 1/3 chance at HoH (and therefore automatically making F3) but he'll then have to worry about Liz, Steve and Vanessa. Not that Liz or Steve would necessarily vote against him, but he can't know that they won't (Vanessa wanting to keep Steve has got to make him think bad thoughts). He is pretty darn confident that Liz and Austin will vote out Vanessa.

 

It sucks, but I really do see the logic for him in taking Steve out here. That's not even counting whether you believe Steve would be a bigger threat to him on comps than Austin. 

[Katesus7]

Y'all have all had really great, well thought out discussions about the Big Brother Player who is John. I am rather buzzed right now, but am going to give you my thoughts.

John had no clue what he was getting into with this show. He is awkward and weird, and his DRs are who he is. He wanted to align with people, and be loyal to them, and have them be loyal to him. Unfortunately for him, he kept picking the wrong people. Shelli and Clay, we can speculate all day long about his weird thing with Clay, but he was loyal to them, and Shelli clearly still likes him from her Jury spots.

Well, that went to hell, and he didn't know what to do. He thought Vanessa was behind things (and was correct), but didn't know how to use this information other than telling Vanessa she made him uncomfortable and telling other people he was going after her. Meanwhile, he formed this bond with Steve. Well, both those things bit him in the ass once he found himself on the block with Steve.

So before he gets booted, he clears the air with Vanessa, thinks all is good with her, and once he's back in the game, seems to be firmly on board with working on Vanessa. His big flaw in his game (and it is a HUGE flaw), is that he does not understand the need to constantly stroke the person he's aligned with. He feels - we're aligned, we're good, I'm going to floss my teeth, work out, then go to bed. That is not how this game works.

Vanessa being Vanessa, did not get stroked enough by John, unlike Austin, who is incredible at this aspect of the game, so she is done with John. Not saying it's a bad move. But now John knows that once again he chose wrong. Now what? Well, Austin is blowing all kinds of smoke up his ass, Vanessa clearly is fine with booting him, why not go with Austin? He and Steve have not had a meaningful game convo in ages, John has to know that Steve knew Vanessa was putting Steve up as a pawn with John. John was thinking finals with Vanessa/Steve, and now knows that is not the case. So he bails and goes with Austin/Liz.

This is not a long trusting/wanting to work with Austin. John wanted Austin out last week. But he knows he's the target, and thinks separating Vanessa from Steve (since Vanessa is not an option) is good for his game. Better the enemy you know, than the enemy who you thought you were working with.

Or, he clearly has no more fucks to give, just wants to win comps, and will boot whoever he feels like booting.

I actually think it's a combo of the two. I just wish I could shake him and tell him to boot Austin for all that is good and right in this world. Because seriously!!! How is Austin still here???

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Or, he clearly has no more fucks to give, just wants to win comps, and will boot whoever he feels like booting.

 

He does not. Also clearly is him not wanting to play Vanessa's game. Takes what she says and does the exact opposite.

 

Because why? He is all about Vanessa's head exploding. 

 

He hates them all.

[Brian Cronin]

I do think he's working off of an approach of "If Vanessa thinks Move A is the right move, then I should do the opposite of that." Hell, Vanessa has said earlier in the season (I know in the DR, but maybe outside of it, as well) that if someone tells you to do X then they're most likely thinking that X is good for THEM, so you should do Y then. 

[Arya]

I just wish I could shake him and tell him to boot Austin for all that is good and right in this world. Because seriously!!! How is Austin still here???

So true. I just need Austin gone! Make it happen John and Vanessa!

[ByaNose]

I don't want Austin to win because he's.....well......Austin! I think Vanessa deserves to win because she's played a heck of a game but just because she deserves it doesn't mean I want her to win. I don't want Liz to win because she annoyed me all summer. I don't want Steve to win because he just creeped me out with his constant need for a hug. So, that leaves Johnny Mac. He's played a horrible & inconsistent game but he amused me in the DR all summer which I can appreciate. Granted, that's probably an awful reason to want someone to win but there are worse reasons, right?

[loki567]

This week seems like a pretty good example of why Austin's still here, in that person A distrusts person B more than they distrust Austin/Twins. I think Steve/John/Vanessa are awkward socially in different ways and it's really standing in the way of them making a deal this week. 

[bobthefrog]

Sigh. Austin wants to call Steve out in his eviction speech, because Steve is "a boy" and he needs Austin to "teach him how to be a man". Or some such nonsense like that.

[pennben]

Yeah, Austin is just going to say, in essence, "please keep me!".  I think he called out an ant once, but was quite fierce doing so.

[Silo]

I'm calling it now, no matter how JMac votes, Vanessa will not vote out Austin. Steve's going home.

[thefog]

I just wish I could shake him and tell him to boot Austin for all that is good and right in this world. Because seriously!!! How is Austin still here???

Vanessa is not going to win over Austin.  She has a terrible social game.  And with her, it's always about the game.  She's made too many enemies on the jury.  And now that they out of the game, I'm sure they've talked and compared notes.

Edited September 14, 2015 by getaway

[ZSweetJane]

The purpose of this game is to send people home each week.

The object of the game is to survive in the house until F2, and then get the jury to declare you winner. It shouldn't matter if your hands are clean or bloody. If you can get someone else to do the slaughtering, more power to you.

Edited September 14, 2015 by ZSweetJane

[Nashville]

That's actually something the jury can see as a plus - that someone who was evicted, fought their way back into the house.  He's also survived being on the block more than any one else; winning the POV 4 times.  Most important, he was not directly responsible for most of the jury's evictions.  And it only takes 5 votes to win.

 

This argument has crossed my mind more than a few times.  That John was evicted, fought their way back into the house, and - despite being EVERYBODY's declared target for eviction - outlasted them and survived to the end...?  THAT is a powerful argument.

 

I would never vote for someone who has done literally nothing in the game but survive.  Maybe it's a flawed way of thinking, but I can't respect anyone, as a gameplayer, who has ridden on the coattails of everyone else to get further. The purpose of this game is to send people home each week. Not sending home literally anyone in the jury shouldn't be a mark in the plus column IMO.

 

An argument could be made for having played one of the most successful floater strategies in the history of BB. 

I strongly suspect such an argument would require a Vanessa-like talent of verbal persuasion, however.

I don't know if JMac's elocution skills are up to it.

[mooses]

Seems like Vanessa can't take the suspense and is outwardly pushing John to boot Austin. She wants to make a big move and wants him to swear on it.

I have a feeling he got what he wants and is going to run to Austin with this right after this conversation.

ETA: Vanessa insists on a blindside. Please, please, please. Austin's reaction would be everything.

Edited September 14, 2015 by mooses

[mooses]

This argument has crossed my mind more than a few times. That John was evicted, fought their way back into the house, and - despite being EVERYBODY's declared target for eviction - outlasted them and survived to the end...? THAT is a powerful argument.

Eh, he was still evicted. I can understand the argument because he has to make it. But no matter who returned, I'd be saying that. Even though I liked Nicole last season and was happy to have someone bearable back, she should never have actually won against another HG. Yeah, he played a great game...as long as he got a second chance. He could maybe use the target argument against Steve, but Austwins and Vanessa felt the heat plenty and managed to avoid it without already losing once.

Anyone else's argument would automatically be better in my mind because it'd just be, hey, remember when I evicted you and managed to get to the end without anyone ever getting a shot at the target on my back? I didn't need a second zombie mode to make it.

I can totally get people wanting him to win just because they like him, though. That's part of being a fan. But I don't think the argument of him being a great player is very strong because of the whole eviction thing. But if it's just, he seems cool and doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out - okay!

Edited September 14, 2015 by mooses

[Former Nun]

But I don't think the argument of him being a great player is very strong because of the whole eviction thing.

 

 

Maybe John is a follower of Machiavelli and getting evicted was part of his Master Plan (heh-heh...rubbing my hands together...heh-heh-heh).

because Steve is "a boy" and he needs Austin to "teach him how to be a man".

 

 

Let's ask Austin's most recent ex-girlfriend just how manly Austin is in her eyes now.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm not a student of the game like many here, but I've noticed some generalities about non-bitter Survivor and Big Brother juries.  First, they want the person they're giving the money to to own their game.  In fact, they absolutely hate it when this doesn't happen.  Second, they absolutely melt when they're told they were evicted because they were serious threats.  They fall for that shit all the time.  They also want to believe that the winner was the ultimate player, because that's the only reason they themselves didn't win.

 

So if the jury isn't bitter, I don't know where that leaves John.  I guess throwing multiple BOtB comps to please the HOH is a strategy of sorts, but it can also be interpreted as gutless, or even unfair sabotaging of his co-nominee.  To own his game, he will have to acknowledge throwing all the comps, but a lot of them were simply because he was afraid to anger the HOH, which is again somewhat gutless.  There's also the problem that his closest ally from the beginning was Becky, yet she never considered him part of her alliance.  So he was never a floater as strategy, he was a floater because he slept constantly and just never clicked with anyone.  So I wonder if the very people who found him unworthy to work with will think he's deserving of the win. 

 

I can definitely see him winning if the jury is bitter.  Otherwise, I just can't see him giving a convincing (or even cogent) jury speech to sway the jurors.  I guess if he stood up straight, dropped his voice an octave, wiped the goofy look off his face, and told them all he's played them since day one, he's got a shot.

 

 

[pennben]

Second, they absolutely melt when they're told they were evicted because they were serious threats.  They fall for that shit all the time.  They also want to believe that the winner was the ultimate player, because that's the only reason they themselves didn't win.

 

 

 

Oh my god, that's so true!!  "I had to evict you, you were the best player that ever played....."  The opposite is true as well, as you were saying, do I want to lose to someone who did nothing or do I want to lose to someone who did everything.  Always a tough call.

[Silo]

JMac has no master plan at this point. JMac just wants to watch the world burn.

[kikaha]

I agree. It's even better for Liz because in F2, Austin would beat her just on the fact he's a dude.

 

In that F2, six women are on the jury: Shelli, Jackie, Becky, Meg, Julia and Vanessa.  Do you really think the women would vote for Austin because he's a dude? 

 

The jury will be mostly women in any case.  Same question as above.  Will a majority-women's jury vote for a man over a woman, simply because the guy is a guy? 

 

Johnny Mac may be the best challenge player this season.  He won a bunch of POVs, and was second in a number of other comps, some of which I'm pretty sure he could have won had he chosen to.  So he has to feel fairly good about his chances to win his way to F2, which in turn puts him in great position to win. 

 

His strategy all season was damn good IMO.  He has no enemies... no blood on his hands... everyone loves him... and he navigated his way through treacherous waters on his own, to the end. 

 

Vanessa drives me crazy.  Watching her strategize and manipulate the others is a wonder to behold.  While I don't think game theory had much to with it (too many variables, including unknown unknowns, that change by the minute, plus information that is often wildly off mark), she is a fantastic saleswoman, schemer and puppet master.  The flip side is that she gets self-sabotaged, by her manic craziness and hypocritical paranoia, and that makes me want to rip my hair out (figuratively speaking).  She created many of the crises she had to dig herself out of this season. 

 

If she makes to the end, and the jury only cares about game play, she wins.  If the jury considers other factors (such as likeability or personal betrayals), I bet she loses to everyone except Liz. 

 

ETA: Vanessa probably has one other big advantage over everyone else at F2.  She can probably give a fantastic F2 performance.  That has to increase her odds of winning. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by kikaha

[Brian Cronin]

I think Vanessa would do well in the F2, but I think that's why most of the remaining HGs want her gone before the F2. Sort of like Keesha in BB10. She would have had a strong case for being the first woman to win BB10 against a man, but since everyone knew that, Dan and Memphis got rid of her at F4.

 

EDITED TO ADD: For seven years now, I always thought she spelled it "Keisha," but I guess I was wrong. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[Donny Ketchum]

In that F2, six women are on the jury: Shelli, Jackie, Becky, Meg, Julia and Vanessa.  Do you really think the women would vote for Austin because he's a dude? 

 

The jury will be mostly women in any case.  Same question as above.  Will a majority-women's jury vote for a man over a woman, simply because the guy is a guy?

Yes.  See BB15.

[kellog010]

I hate that Steve may be the downfall of Vanessa. I would have expected it from Austin but I hate that Steve might be the one to do it if they keep him. If that happens and it's Steve/John/Liz F3 then I may just root for Liz to win and John to get 2nd place.

[mooses]

I hate that Steve may be the downfall of Vanessa. I would have expected it from Austin but I hate that Steve might be the one to do it if they keep him. If that happens and it's Steve/John/Liz F3 then I may just root for Liz to win and John to get 2nd place.

I do think it's better for her to keep Austin and Liz. If she keeps Steve, she's in a must-win Veto situation next week. No one is going to keep her in The House. If she keeps Austin and Liz and one of them wins HoH, she has a chance of staying as long as John doesn't win Veto.

She's putting herself in a better Final 3 situation by evicting Austin, but a much worse, almost impossible, Final 4 situation.

ETA: Steve in BY talking to self says "I think I just won this game" while practicing speeches to evict Vanessa and Liz.

Whichever one goes, I expect a nice blindside.

Edited September 14, 2015 by mooses

[blixie]

 

I have a feeling he got what he wants and is going to run to Austin with this right after this conversation.

 

He didn't do that, for the record (at least not yet). Are they taping both the eviction and HoH in the 12 hours the feeds are down? I'm hoping there is no time for JMac to go to Liztin, or vice versa. Plus Austin is confident John is voting Steve out (and he very well might because - he's so unpredictable), Austin knows he has to manage Vanessa, but he seems to think he has a good read on JMac despite saying, "I think Johnny Mac is serious and crazy"  m,kay Tuna Beard. I have to remind myself that this doesn't actually matter to V's game that much because the only way she's gonna be there in the end is if she wins F4 Veto followed by F3 HoH, and If Austin is gone, than Liz is ride or die with her as all girl F2.

 

 

she's in a must-win Veto situation next week.

 

I don't see how she's not in this position regardless, I think that's where she finally landed, and if she eliminates Liz's loyalty to Austin, she can step in and be her #1, more easily than she can be John's or Austin's. Though his DR's last night did seem to indicate he would take her, I still think he'd BEAT her so she might as well roll the dice earlier. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by blixie

[Ceeg]

I think it's better for Vanessa's game to keep Austin too, but at this point, I don't really care. Vanessa was in a must-win situation no matter what, because no one in that house is taking her to F2 anyway. And unless Liz is SUPER bitter about Vanessa evicting Austin, Liz is going to most likely pair up with Vanessa if/when Austin leaves. Liz hates John and Steve too, and I have a feeling Vanessa is going to "girl power" an understanding into Liz. If she does that, at least she knows that if Liz wins F4 veto, she'll probably take Vanessa.

 

And honestly, as a viewer, separate from my desire to see Vanessa win because she's my fave, I just want Austin gone. There's only a week left, and I've come to terms with Vanessa going home at F4. She's had a good run and is arguably the best BB player in years. So, just give me my Austin eviction already, I've been waiting for this since Week 5.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ceeg

[blixie]

I also think the DR has been saying things to Van, that made up her mind, aka that she's fucked either way, and she hasn't made any big moves, and is she a GAMBLER or what? 

[Nashville]

Yes.  See BB15.

IMHO that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. GM didn't lose because she was a woman; GM lost because (a) her F2 give-me-the-money speech was being compared against that of a master debater, and (b) GM was neither mentally nor verbally equipped to articulate a strategy out of a paper bag. YMMV

[Sammich63]

I think it's better for Vanessa's game to keep Austin too, but at this point, I don't really care. Vanessa was in a must-win situation no matter what, because no one in that house is taking her to F2 anyway. And unless Liz is SUPER bitter about Vanessa evicting Austin, Liz is going to most likely pair up with Vanessa if/when Austin leaves. Liz hates John and Steve too, and I have a feeling Vanessa is going to "girl power" an understanding into Liz. If she does that, at least she knows that if Liz wins F4 veto, she'll probably take Vanessa.

 

And honestly, as a viewer, separate from my desire to see Vanessa win because she's my fave, I just want Austin gone. There's only a week left, and I've come to terms with Vanessa going home at F4. She's had a good run and is arguably the best BB player in years. So, just give me my Austin eviction already, I've been waiting for this since Week 5.

This.  Vanessa is my favorite and my wish is for a Liz/Vanessa F2.  I want Austin gone because he's the only one left I just can't stand at all.  I hope and pray Vanessa isn't gone at F4.  I agree that Vanessa has arguably played the best BB game is years.  She's had to claw her way each week, as compared to Derrick just sitting back and dictating to his posse. 

[kikaha]

 

 

There's only a week left, and I've come to terms with Vanessa going home at F4. She's had a good run and is arguably the best BB player in years.

 

I would argue that pretty strongly.  She's one of the best pure manipulators.  But her manic craziness puts huge targets on her, alienates other HGs, and digs deep holes she then must perform magic tricks to pull herself out of. 

 

Vanessa has a deep-rooted INability to see things emotionally from the standpoint of the other players.  That's one reason she gets so mortally offended when one of them has the audacity to make side deals (like she has with just about everyone in the house) -- even when she tells them to do so! 

[peachmangosteen]

She created many of the crises she had to dig herself out of this season.

 

Bingo!

 

I would argue that pretty strongly.  She's one of the best pure manipulators.  But her manic craziness puts huge targets on her, alienates other HGs, and digs deep holes she then must perform magic tricks to pull herself out of. 

 

Vanessa has a deep-rooted INability to see things emotionally from the standpoint of the other players.  That's one reason she gets so mortally offended when one of them has the audacity to make side deals (like she has with just about everyone in the house) -- even when she tells them to do so!

 

+100!

 

I'm calling it now, no matter how JMac votes, Vanessa will not vote out Austin. Steve's going home.

 

Yea, I think so, too. And while I'm sure all the other great arguments people have made for why John would vote out Steve could certainly be true, I really think the biggest reason is this. If John votes out Austin to cause the tie and then Vanessa evicts Steve anyway, then John is thoroughly fucked.

[aurora296]

If vanessa is lucky and skilled enough to make it to final 2, will she own up to her game during her persuasion of the jury or continue to play along as she has? If she can't let her facade down and admit she constantly lied while accusing everyone else of being liars, had everyone at her beck and call, turned on fake concerns and emotions throughout the game and manipulated most evictions then she might not get the votes to win. 

[peachmangosteen]

If vanessa is lucky and skilled enough to make it to final 2, will she own up to her game during her persuasion of the jury or continue to play along as she has?

 

She won't even own her game in the DR, so I really can't see her suddenly doing it during the jury questioning. I think she'll say 'solo dolo' about 50 times, mention her integrity maybe 200 times, tell everyone she studied game theory 10 times, and explain why they are incentived to vote for her. And then she'll probably still win because everyone will be exhausted and just want her to stfu.

 

While Austin is the only person who could possibly beat Vanessa, I still think it really is better for her to keep him and boot Steve. For one, I just think it's kinda too late for her to betray Austin now. Her integrity bullshit will really blow up. Plus she believes, and is probably right, that Steve is her only competition in F4 veto and she pretty much has to win that to have a chance at getting to F2.

 

And tbh John really is probably better off keeping Austin, too. Especially if he is leery of Vanessa not being able to pull the trigger on Austin.

 

This makes me pretty sure Steve will end up going, but then again these people haven't always made the moves that are best for them, so who knows!

[Never Again]

I just thought of something and it's blowing my mind. It may have been mentioned up thread and I never saw it, but as was reading all these comments about Austin's great social game I was remembering how when Jace was voted out the first week, I thought Austin would have to be gone next. I thought that jace was the only connection he made, and that he was so big and gross and annoying and a physical threat and he would be gone next. As often happens, I was totally wrong, and he managed to wriggle through to F5 so far. I was trying to figure out how, then it hit me, maybe instead of Liz playing him and using him to get her further, the opposite is true! What if all along, he hooked up with Liz and is using her to further his own game? I mean he came Into the game with a girlfriend he cared about. It's hard to fall that deeply in love with someone else in a week. I almost hope this showmance is real, that's how much the thought of this turns my stomach. Well, the two of them together turn my stomach anyway lol but you know what I mean

[Brian Cronin]

She won't even own her game in the DR, so I really can't see her suddenly doing it during the jury questioning. I think she'll say 'solo dolo' about 50 times, mention her integrity maybe 200 times, tell everyone she studied game theory 10 times, and explain why they are incentived to vote for her. And then she'll probably still win because everyone will be exhausted and just want her to stfu.

One thing I'll always blame Derrick for is the introduction of the "lying to the DR" strategy. I'll give him credit, it's honestly a smart strategy, because the TPTB fucks with HGs routinely, so I guess you really SHOULDN'T trust them. But the end result has been HGs will likely more and more not tell us what they're really thinking, because they know that if WE know than TPTB know and TPTB can use that info to screw with them ("HG X is planning on  voting out popular HG Y? Time to rig things to help HG Y!")

[Ceeg]

I was busy watching sports yesterday, so I'm catching up on the HOH conversations with Vanessa and the others. I literally have no idea who is going home next. Sucks the feeds will be down until Tuesday night.

 

Oddly enough, I think out of everyone in the house, evicting Austin would be the best for Liz's game. If Austin leaves, her odds of winning just went up. I also think she has really good shot at winning the final HOH. 

[kikaha]

Yes.  See BB15.

 

Donny, maybe the better question is will this majority-women jury vote for a guy, simply because he's a guy? 

[mooses]

This makes me pretty sure Steve will end up going, but then again these people haven't always made the moves that are best for them, so who knows!

Her argument to John last night made me really think she's leaning towards booting Austin. Unless she's using the so shocked he can't win HOH strategy on John instead of Liz - because John winning HOH would be the worst scenario for her.

As good as she is at manipulating, I think she's the type that needs to tell someone her plan. She wouldn't be able to set this up and keep it to herself. She'd want someone to tell her how awesome her brain is!

Edited September 14, 2015 by mooses

[blixie]

I think between JoVan back yard hammock talk, and the HoH big move talk last night, I feel like it's 60-40% Austin is going. That talk was fairly early in the night, and Austin chose to sit tight and not work John, and John chose not to go tell Liztin everything Vanessa said. So yeah I'm cautiously optimistic it might happen.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm preparing for Steve to go, but if by some luck, John actually considers taking Austin out, the eviction happening could be very interesting. Hopefully John and Vanessa can go through with it. Austin's too big of a shoe in for F2 to keep around.