Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[LoveLeigh]

Catching up here.  I am still reeling from their decision to vote Julia out because that is what the twins want.  Jesus. 

I have to wonder if production did not influence this next eviction for keeping Liz in the game. They love these silly showmances and they think it gives the show higher ratings. So Julia will be evicted. 

[Nashville]

I'm really tired of the excessively convoluted game play this year. It was whacky and fun for a while, but it's worn me down, lol.

 

THIS. ;) The degree of overthink this season has been extraordinary - although, to be fair, about 80% of it was one player. The current situation is a perfect example. There's virtually no way on earth evicting Julia over Liz makes sense for anybody except possibly one player, yet everybody keeps trying to twist the strategic realities into a rationale to justify it.

[Wings]

 

No, I won't evict Julia because it's not good for MY game.

 

YES!  The time for voting with the house, if there ever should be, is over.  Forget your many alliances and work week by week now.

[mooses]

Steve's sketchiness and inability to just answer a damn question even when it's posed by an alliance member, even at this stage of the game, probably doesn't help Vanessa's confidence in that alliance.

Also, I've never been a fan of Steve, but I kinda feel bad that his HOH has been completely gutted by Vanessa. (If they do end up keeping Liz).

Yeah, Steve has gotten away with that for so long. He's not as subtle at it as he thinks, and it's putting him as a higher priority to target over John and Julia (if she ends up staying) right now - I think if he was just straight with Vanessa, she'd be more loyal to him because it'd be an equally beneficial relationship. Everyone's realizing he's taking a lot, and barely giving.

Which is why his HOH is so easy to gut. He doesn't want to take a stand because it could be used against him, but that makes it easier to ignore his wishes.

Edited September 9, 2015 by mooses

[Wings]

I have to wonder if production did not influence this next eviction for keeping Liz in the game. They love these silly showmances and they think it gives the show higher ratings. So Julia will be evicted. 

 

Good point.

[LGGirl]

I just read what Vanessa's demands were for keeping Liz.

1. No front doors for Vanessa and they take her to F4.

2. Vanessa decides who goes between Steve/John.

3. They choose Vanessa over Steve/John for a final 2.

Really Vanessa? My damn, woman! You (dumbly) told them that you'd vote how they wanted, so you actually don't get to 'make a deal' now to do what you already told them you would. Also, maybe don't make so many demands, it might work out better for you.

I'm assuming she just got cocky with the 'I'll vote how you decide' business. She was trying to work that social game (little late!) and she assumed she was going to be able to manipulate them into believing Liz going was better for them. It didn't work out. So then she made it about 10 times worse by trying to 'make a deal' now. You already made a deal, Vanessa. All that wanting to make a new deal does is prove to Austwins that you were lying about the other one. And like honestly, it's about to be F5, deals are kinda over now.

Why bother to make any deals at this point? I'd make any deal to keep from getting evicted this week if I was on the block but would have no intention of honoring it. And what would happen to me if I don't? Probably nothing. Vanessa is delusional.

Vanessa is the low person on all of her alliances. Deals aren't going to change that.

Edited September 9, 2015 by LGGirl

[LoveLeigh]

THIS. ;) The degree of overthink this season has been extraordinary - although, to be fair, about 80% of it was one player. The current situation is a perfect example. There's virtually no way on earth evicting Julia over Liz makes sense for anybody except possibly one player, yet everybody keeps trying to twist the strategic realities into a rationale to justify it.

They are justifying it to satisfy what production subliminally suggested in the diary room because TPTB love the absurd Liz/Austin showmance. If they keep Liz, it carves out a path for her to go to f2 and win the whole thing because next to go will be vanessa who they all know is the biggest threat to all their games going forward. 

 

And if they make any "deals" with Vanessa, the deals will be broken by Friday. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by DakotaLavender

[mooses]

THIS. ;) The degree of overthink this season has been extraordinary - although, to be fair, about 80% of it was one player. The current situation is a perfect example. There's virtually no way on earth evicting Julia over Liz makes sense for anybody except possibly one player, yet everybody keeps trying to twist the strategic realities into a rationale to justify it.

I have a feeling Vanessa's praying for The Reason to evict Liz. She can't exactly go against them because they have high chance of winning HOH next week - and flipping the vote makes her target #1 over Steve. She definitely thought she could convince them that Julia should stay, and still be on Austin and Julia's good side. Now that the switched it on her, I think we hear The Reason soon - which would be hilarious because the Austwins know how fake that whole process is.

Edited September 9, 2015 by mooses

[Nashville]

I have to wonder if production did not influence this next eviction for keeping Liz in the game. They love these silly showmances and they think it gives the show higher ratings. So Julia will be evicted.

Realistically, though: WTF is Production going to do to a HG or HGs who don't vote the way Production wants? Super Glue their shoes to the floor on the next HoH comp? :)

I have a feeling Vanessa's praying for The Reason to evict Liz.

Didn't Austliz reject the terms V laid out for her vote to evict Julia over Liz?

Reason enough, if they did.

[mooses]

Didn't Austliz reject the terms V laid out for her vote to evict Julia over Liz?

Reason enough, if they did.

I thought they agreed because Liz said she doesn't care, she won't stick to them, in private. But I could be wrong.

That's a good point though. It would make much more sense why she came up with the most ridiculous, comprehensive deal if she wanted them to reject it.

[cocobeans]

How/when did Liz and Austin make up?  I was so happy to see them fighting, her calling him ugly, it was glorious!  Then all the sudden they were 'back together'.

[mayziemay]

Even if the Twins decide that Liz should stay, why don't JMAC, Steve and Van vote out Liz and keep Julia?? The only vote Liz will get is from Austin.  Who cares if Julia is mad.  She really has no one once her sister is gone.  Austin knows this is better for his game too.

 

I can't fathom keeping Liz. 

 

I was also so happy when Liz and Judas were split up and the twins were throwing his clothes around and bad mouthing him.  I have no idea why Liz slithered back into his bed. GROSS.

Edited September 9, 2015 by mayziemay

[MV007]

Realistically, though: WTF is Production going to do to a HG or HGs who don't vote the way Production wants? Super Glue their shoes to the floor on the next HoH comp? :)

 

I don't think Production could give a shit about this showmance.  But lets say they did.  They could do a lot to you.  They could begin casting doubt about you to other houseguests.  They could rig comps.  I certainly wouldn't play the game and choose to evict anyone based on what production wants but there may be some consequences to that because you would then possibly be on the "other side".  

[gina64]

I have a feeling Vanessa's praying for The Reason to evict Liz. She can't exactly go against them because they have high chance of winning HOH next week - and flipping the vote makes her target #1 over Steve. She definitely thought she could convince them that Julia should stay, and still be on Austin and Julia's good side. Now that the switched it on her, I think we hear The Reason soon - which would be hilarious because the Austwins know how fake that whole process is.

 

I want V to pick a fight with Austwins, a la Jeff. It would be glorious.

[MrsMommy]

Anything worth telling happen today? I'm starting to miss the chats about what their doing and what's going on in the house :-(

[kassa]

I don't think production is crazy about this showmance at all.  Austin is going to be crushed by the stuff they've aired.  

 

I can't keep straight what I saw on BBAD and what I saw on the broadcast show, but that discussion with Julia on the hammock about what a horrible kisser he is and how he just wants to make out all the time and how gross it is for her... coupled with BBAD showing her lying like a corpse in his arms while he kisses her... ick.  How is he not picking up on that body language?  Or maybe it's her and it's the best he can do with somebody who just lies there inert?

 

Production isn't showing it because it's in any way hot.  Coupled with the way she talks about him behind his back, and the way he talks about her (in contrast), it's pretty mean of them.  

 

I really, really don't want to think about that icky guy kissing anybody, but I do think he's totally smitten and she's faking her interest because she realized she will come off as whore-y if she admits it was all just gameplay.  

[Nashville]

I don't think Production could give a shit about this showmance.  But lets say they did.  They could do a lot to you.  They could begin casting doubt about you to other houseguests.  They could rig comps.  I certainly wouldn't play the game and choose to evict anyone based on what production wants but there may be some consequences to that because you would then possibly be on the "other side".

In general, maybe - probably in some cases, even - but i was thinking in terms of this season, at this point in time. Not much time or opportunity left for TPTB to do shinola effectively; not without risking serious exposure and well-founded allegations of Production-fixing, which is a poison pill for quote/unquote "reality shows", credibility-wise. Remember what production interference did to Last Comic Standing?

I don't think TPTB are so invested in this season's outcome as to risk damaging the long-term viewer support for -and ratings of - one of their more popular series, in order to influence it. Financially speaking, it would be very unwise.

[Petunia13]

Liz "Do you have to do a goodbye message to yourself?"

Yes Liz. You'll be shocked by what you had to say to you.

[lyric]

 Remember what production interference did to Last Comic Standing?

Ooh...no, but I'm curious! I know this is the wrong forum, so could you provide the Season or year this happened?  Googled it, but not finding the deets.

 

On topic - boot Liz you maroons!

[pennben]

How/when did Liz and Austin make up?  I was so happy to see them fighting, her calling him ugly, it was glorious!  Then all the sudden they were 'back together'.

 

The breakup lasted the evening of the POV contest and was over the next morning when Liz got back in bed with Austin.  Short-lived but made for a fantastic few hours of feed watching.

 

Anything worth telling happen today? I'm starting to miss the chats about what their doing and what's going on in the house :-(

 

It's the curse of the end game, the feeds are boring about 23.5 hours out of the day now once noms are set, especially this week when one of the twins will go, so there's not much incentive to watch.  I assume we might have interesting conversations maybe late tonight.  Otherwise, there's just a whole lot of nothing going on.  Things just come in bursts now after HOH/POV/Noms, although depending on who goes up next week it could be more interesting.

Edited September 9, 2015 by pennben

[mooses]

Read that Steve is getting very suspicious of Austin and Vanessa working together. He also said to himself that she can't get anywhere near the finals - that she's Derrick and he is Cody.

Also the only way he's going home next week is if he's sitting next to Vanessa. I still think he'd stay in that scenario - and he'd go home next to John.

ETA: Vanessa also told John she's going to try for HOH, but she'll throw it to him if it down to them.

Edited September 9, 2015 by mooses

[Ceeg]

Yeah no one except maybe John would ever take Vanessa to the F2. Which means she absolutely has to win that final HOH.

I think the odds of a Vanessa F2 is extremely low but just as a viewer, I'm glad to finally watch a season of BB where the best and most feared player is a woman and isn't an asshole (Amanda I'm looking at you).

Also, as a viewer, I don't mind Liz staying over Julia simply because it always sucks to see weak competitors float to the end bc they're useless. Whoever wins this season, with the exception of John, will have earned it IMO.

[peachmangosteen]

Even if the Twins decide that Liz should stay, why don't JMAC, Steve and Van vote out Liz and keep Julia?? 

 

Steve doesn't have a vote. John has some legitimate reasons to get rid of Julia over Liz which have been discussed. As for Vanessa, once she promised the twins she'd vote how they wanted she tied her own hands. She's already not very high on people's 'I really like this person' list as it is, if she goes back on that promise now she probably fears she'll lose any hope of Austwins voting for her to win.

 

It will be interesting to see if she tries to change Austwins mind on this before tomorrow.

[mooses]

I don't know how many people look at these things, but Steve gave some insight into his endgame in his blog:

The best Final Three, as Derrick [Levasseur] pointed out last year, is when you’re there with two allies who aren’t working with each other, and Austin and I would give Vanessa that since we’re both strategically closer with her than each other. This is the same reason I would prefer a Final Three with me, her, and Johnny. I also think that Vanessa would be a really, really hard win in the finals. She’s playing everyone in the house right now. Literally everyone.

I would be shocked if she doesn’t have a Final Two deal with Austin like she does with me, and there’s probably even more that I don’t know about. I could just be paranoid here, but I’m tempted to think she’s almost on Derrick’s level in terms of strategy and her ability to manipulate her fellow Houseguests. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out she has a huge secret about her outside life she hasn’t told us. I want to work with her going forward, but right now, I want to subtly show Austin in every way I can that Vanessa is playing me just like she’s playing him, and we all need to be skeptical of Vanessa.

[Cutty]

I just can't believe Vanessa is keeping Liz in the game. As much as she has annoyed me, I've always respected her strategic game. But this would be a terrible game move. Austin and Liz in the F4 is a disaster for Vanessa's game but especially for the viewers. 

[peachmangosteen]

I just can't believe Vanessa is keeping Liz in the game. As much as she has annoyed me, I've always respected her strategic game. But this would be a terrible game move.

 

There's still time. I'm not entirely convinced she's really gonna go through with it because I believe she is smarter than that.

[pennben]

She has to change either John or Austin's mind, she can't keep her there on her own.  I assume she won't campaign to Austin, that leaves John who had been leaning to boot Julia all week.  I'm not sure what chance she has here to change anything, so I can see her not pushing that hard. 

[kellog010]

Maybe the fact that Vanessa doesn't need the money gives her the latitude to roll the dice on her moves more than another would in her place. There are arguments to keeping either twin in the game but as a viewer, maybe a strong F5, with just John as the weakest link is not a bad thing to watch. I think Vanessa is playing the odds of her surviving next week. After that, her fate in the game is all on her. 

 

ETA: Also, Vanessa has already suffered the fall out for making a move (with the Jason eviction) and bearing the brunt of that decision when her alliance didn't back her. Like I stated earlier, I believe If Steve and John were more vocal and convincing that they were all in with her maybe she'd be more willing to go directly against the Austwins.

Edited September 9, 2015 by kellog010

[Cramps]

Steve's blog is quite insightful. I wonder if it's obvious to everyone that Vanessa is hiding something about her outside life.

[Stinamaia]

Totally off topic here because I've disengaged so much from this season now.

Anyway --

Austin is indeed reminding me of a gallant knight in a medieval romance, but one that might have had a part in a Monty Python movie. Swearing to defend the delicate princess and her lovely sister too, but when the dragon makes an appearance, he hems and haws and reassures his lady love about the thickness of the castle walls and explains that he just got a hot lead on the holy grail and and reassures her of his undying love as he backs out the door with a mumbled "that went pretty well" as he turns the corner.

[yankee1151]

I have a feeling Vanessa's praying for The Reason to evict Liz. She can't exactly go against them because they have high chance of winning HOH next week - and flipping the vote makes her target #1 over Steve. She definitely thought she could convince them that Julia should stay, and still be on Austin and Julia's good side. Now that the switched it on her, I think we hear The Reason soon - which would be hilarious because the Austwins know how fake that whole process is.

Well, they (remaining Austwins) would have a much lower chance of winning HOH this week if they boot Liz over Julia. I hope Vanessa does find The Reason, but she'll have to convince John (Austin will vote for Liz to stay no matter what, IMO). And Vanessa will have to 100% trust John that he will vote Liz out if that's what they agree upon or she's in deep(er) shit. It's very risky. BUT....

 

The FUCK does anyone (including Austin) think keeping Liz is better for their game?? This is utterly perplexing to me, I'm sorry. 

[kellog010]

Liz is telling Julia to tell John tomorrow that she thinks Vanessa has deals with everyone in the house and she can't be trusted. Like the people who actually evicted him are more trustworthy than the person he knows lies but in her actions has actually helped him. This should be interesting if John wins HOH this week. I have no idea what he's going to do. Liz also said if Steve wins veto and she's HOH she's putting Vanessa up as renom to vote her out.

 

I think what irks me the most is the twins are talking about Vanessa playing all sides of the house when the twins just two weeks ago did the same exact thing. Their entitlement that someone in a F6 with twins and Showmance wouldn't make a move to better their odds of winning. I want Vanessa to win this game however unlikely but if she's gone I'd settle for Steve or John as I definitely don't want and Austwin to win. I guess I'm a bitter viewer. :)

Edited September 9, 2015 by kellog010

[Ceeg]

If/when Vanessa is evicted before F3, I wonder if TPTB will tell her to keep quiet about her poker career so they can save it for the live show. I'd really like to see the HG's genuine reactions to her success and relative fame in the poker world.

[mayziemay]

Why does jmac want Liz to stay? she doesn't even like him.

[Pixel]

Why does jmac want Liz to stay? she doesn't even like him.

Because Vanessa told him he wants her to stay?

[yankee1151]

Because Vanessa told him he wants her to stay?

I don't understand this at all. It's not remotely good for Vanessa's game (or anyone else's, IMO) for Liz to stay. Why would Vanessa be pushing this? Vanessa will vote "with the house" if it comes down to it (if John is definitely voting Julia out, she will too for obvious reasons, and Austin is just going to do what the twins say so he doesn't matter in this scenario) but why would Vanessa WANT John to boot Julia? And why is Steve saying he doesn't care which one goes? He damn well should!

[Katesus7]

I think John wants Julia gone for the reasons already mentioned - he wants to be the go to pawn, and right now Julia is threatening him for that role.

[yankee1151]

I think John wants Julia gone for the reasons already mentioned - he wants to be the go to pawn, and right now Julia is threatening him for that role.

yeah I get that JOHN has Reasons for wanting Julia out (though I think there are better ones for wanting Liz out, namely, she could beat him much more easily in comps than Julia could), but why would VANESSA be pushing this scenario? Not rocking the boat if it's a lost cause is one thing, but she only has to sway/mist one person: John. And if Steve had a backbone and named a preference that would make a huge difference too. He wants to waste his HOH on JULIA? 

[Eolivet]

To me, that plan makes sense if he gets to final 2. But does John really think Austin would take him to final 2 over his "girlfriend?" Austin, who seems to be obsessed with his TV persona and making good TV, would stab his girlfriend in the back to take an already-evicted houseguest to the end? Austin would end a showmance on national television that he assumes is beloved by America? That seems like a serious miscalculation on John's part.

 

I guess he's relying on Steve to win or Liz to take him?

[Newbietunes]

I was wondering about a week ago if Vanessa had ever told the others what she does/did for a living.  And it sounds like she hasn't, based on some posts over the past few days.  How does she explain how she's an expert in game theory given whatever it is she told them she does for a living, and what did she tell the others she did for a living way back in the Jurassic era when this season started?

 

I think Vanessa might possibly want Liz to stay because then she is still the odd person out.  John/Steve should still put a priority on breaking up the Liz/Austin duo and vice versa.  As Julia and Austin are not as strongly aligned, John/Steve might be more inclined to see J/A/V as three individuals and target the biggest threat (which IMO should be Austin, but they might not see it that way).

[pennben]

I was wondering about a week ago if Vanessa had ever told the others what she does/did for a living.  And it sounds like she hasn't, based on some posts over the past few days.  How does she explain how she's an expert in game theory given whatever it is she told them she does for a living, and what did she tell the others she did for a living way back in the Jurassic era when this season started?

 

I am pretty sure she's told folks she plays poker for a living.  I remember awhile ago Austin telling the twins that that would mean she's rich. I also remember a conversation she had with Austin/Steve about how unfulfilling it was day to day.  I assume she hasn't told them how successful she has been, but the other night John mentioned that poker is sometimes played on tv.  As someone else noted above, that may have been his way of saying he knows about her.

[mooses]

I was wondering about a week ago if Vanessa had ever told the others what she does/did for a living.  And it sounds like she hasn't, based on some posts over the past few days.  How does she explain how she's an expert in game theory given whatever it is she told them she does for a living, and what did she tell the others she did for a living way back in the Jurassic era when this season started?

 

I think Vanessa might possibly want Liz to stay because then she is still the odd person out.  John/Steve should still put a priority on breaking up the Liz/Austin duo and vice versa.  As Julia and Austin are not as strongly aligned, John/Steve might be more inclined to see J/A/V as three individuals and target the biggest threat (which IMO should be Austin, but they might not see it that way).

 

Yeah, she's mentioned poker - just not how successful she was at it. I think they'll be surprised how well-known she is (in the poker world I guess, because I had no idea).

As for which twin is leaving, I think you're right. She preferred Julia to stay, but since the twins chose Liz to stay, she can't go against that without becoming target number one for Austin and Julia. If Liz stays, at least she doesn't upset Austin and Liz more than Steve has by putting the twins up, and John and Steve have more incentive to go after the couple over her - which could help for one more week since her game is becoming more transparent with less people. It still requires her to win competitions often, though, but it's not like it's a slam dunk either way.

As for Steve - he should want Liz gone. And I get that John wants to be number one goat - but he has a higher chance of winning competitions against Julia which would allow him to make decisions instead of being the patsy. 

[lyric]

I don't understand why Vanessa isn't going to work hard on John to get rid of Liz.  If Austin is already coming after her, openly or covertly, then Liz is coming for her too.  So, why not get rid of Liz and go all in with S & JMac (and work on Julia in the meantime...she just might get her back)  and improve their chances of winning comps?  Steve can't play next HOH, so she's going to compete against the two biggest possible threats left (and John which, hell, he'll probably throw the way he's going).  So weird that she's trying to stay on the Austwins' good side when Austin and a twin are coming for her either way.  She has to win comps to stay at this point, so improve your chances of winning them!   I have a feeling keeping Liz will be a fatal move for her.

 

Or maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees...

[Turtle]

Yet Vanesa is the one who gave them a choice on which twin goes. Even if she was bullshitting, why put herself in that corner. This type of poor people management is why is unpopular with her peers.

  

Yes, Vanessa gave them a choice. And then told them why she thinks Liz would be a bigger target if she stayed by highlighting the fact that Liz has a better chance of winning. And so of course the twins eventually decided that Liz should stay. The twins have proven to be really easy to influence.

By keeping Liz, Vanessa is taking a risk, but it's a good one to take- she is really unlikely to go on the block this Friday, and if she's a re-nom, chances are that she doesn't get evicted. Then she's in F4, where comps matter a lot, with three people who think she's in their alliance, no matter who gets evicted at F5 (any 2/1 combo of Liz/ Austin and Steve/ John). Odds of advancing to F3 at that point are high.

That's all an attempt at rational thought for a game that has proven to be rather irrational and unpredictable this season, so I'm probably full of shit.

[lyric]

  

Yes, Vanessa gave them a choice. And then told them why she thinks Liz would be a bigger target if she stayed by highlighting the fact that Liz has a better chance of winning. And so of course the twins eventually decided that Liz should stay. The twins have proven to be really easy to influence.

By keeping Liz, Vanessa is taking a risk, but it's a good one to take- she is really unlikely to go on the block this Friday, and if she's a re-nom, chances are that she doesn't get evicted. Then she's in F4, where comps matter a lot, with three people who think she's in their alliance, no matter who gets evicted at F5 (any 2/1 combo of Liz/ Austin and Steve/ John). Odds of advancing to F3 at that point are high.

That's all an attempt at rational thought for a game that has proven to be rather irrational and unpredictable this season, so I'm probably full of shit.

Hmm...interesting...I thought everyone was just waiting for the chance to take her out, even via backdoor.  I didn't realize she'd gotten back in the Austwins' good graces, since they were all looking to 'blow up her game' over the last 24 hours.  Thanks for the insight, feed watchers - will be interesting to see how it plays out, I s'pose.

[Brian Cronin]

I don't understand why Vanessa isn't going to work hard on John to get rid of Liz.  

 

As others have noted, she's not currently a main target (she would be a major renom target, but not a main target) if Liz stays and either Liz or Austin wins HoH. Now if she goes back on what she said she would do, she WOULD become a target for an Austin HoH win. She thought that she could convince them that it was better for Julia to stay, but she overplayed that hand. Not a huge mistake, but a tiny one. So currently it is better for her to not rock the boat. Now if she could subtly convince Julia and Liz to say that Julia should stay, then I can see her doing that tonight or tomorrow.  

Edited September 10, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[Arya]

This is going to be amazing when Liz wins HOH tomorrow and puts up Vanessa and John. I would laugh for days. Not very likely but it would be exactly what they deserve by keeping her there, because she's capable of winning comps! This is a pretty terrible idea right now and I really need to see Liz leave, especially because freaking Austin just had to save himself. Why won't he just leave already! I don't even know what I'll do if he wins this season.

[lyric]

Thanks for the feedback, Brian...and, yeah, I've seen the comments that she's not the main target, but I have a sneaking suspicion if Austin or Liz win HOH, she'll be gone unless she wins veto.  I think those 2 will find a REASON to boot her if they have the chance.

 

Hah!  Or what Arya said, I really just don't want to see Austin anymore, nor do I want to see him win - he may deserve it, but he just creeps me out.

Edited September 10, 2015 by lyric

[Turtle]

Austwins talk a big game, but if history proves true they're not going to actually make a move against Vanessa until they're numerically forced to. Instead, they're going to focus on Steve first. John and Steve will target Liz and Austin. So no matter who wins HoH, Vanessa isn't going up. If a nominee wins veto, she will probably go on the block but probably won't be evicted. Consider how few possibilities there are for post-veto votes.

Austin HoH:

John and Vanessa on the block, Liz and Steve voting. Liz keeps Vanessa, Steve keeps John, Austin as tiebreaker keeps Vanessa. This is one of the best chances for Vanessa to leave, because Austin thinks John believes their final 2 deal and he might be pissed enough at Vanessa to vote her out.

Steve and Vanessa on the block, Liz and John voting. Liz will almost definitely vote to keep Vanessa over Steve. John will want to keep Steve, but will know that in a tiebreaker Austin will do what Liz wants.

John and Steve on the block, Vanessa and Liz voting: they vote together, probably to evict Steve

Liz HoH:

Pretty much exactly the same as above. That's why keeping an unbreakable two-person alliance is such a terrible idea; the number of possible outcomes is dramatically reduced if two of the four HoH possibilities have the same results.

Vanessa HoH:

Will only happen in the most crap shoot-y of all crap shoots. She will make a negative effort to win this HoH.

John HoH:

I think Steve wouldn't go on the block no matter who used veto, but I have no idea who he would nominate up front.

Austin and Liz on the block, Steve and Vanessa voting: probably Liz goes

Austin and Vanessa on the block, Steve and Liz voting: either they both vote to evict Vanessa, or John is the tie break vote. No idea who he evicts, and no idea which is the right choice

Liz and Vanessa on the block, Steve and Austin voting: Vanessa leaves

[BK1978]

If I beat toddlers in a game of soccer, how much would you admire my technical skill? Would that game be fun to watch? In a game where *someone* has to win, how proud could I feel over my victory?

It's kinda like that. Not worth anything skill-wise. Not impressed by her at all.

 

Off topic but you made me have a flashback to the Seinfeld episode when Kramer was in a karate class with all little kids.