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Race & Ethnicity On TV

callie lee 29

By callie lee 29
in Everything Else TV

Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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28 minutes ago, Zella said:

Ah okay. I think I've only ever seen him in Young Guns. LOL But I've seen Wes Studi in tons of stuff. 

La Bamba, Young Guns and Stand and Deliver give LDP a certain amount of cache with Hollywood. Despite having a pretty recognizable name I don’t think he is that big of an audience draw. My guess is casting him was more about having someone with major award nominations and giving the show credibility. 

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jhlipton
jhlipton

I have a lot of friends who are very active in working against racism and sexism and not a single one hates whites or men.  White male ego is so fragile that two women of color on the latest Star Trek

Trini
Trini

I mean, sure; but it would be weird to have everyone on TV look like this:   I personally like seeing people of different ethnicities in my entertainment.

DearEvette
DearEvette

Megyn Kelly doesn't have the charm or charisma to attract a morning talk show audience or any sort of positive attention.  The only time she gets any attention is when she does something execrable.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

23 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The lack of representation of Native Americans/Indigenous people in tv and film is so very depressing. 

Stumptown has some Native American characters who recur in it, though I'm not sure the representation is particularly ground-breaking.

Tantoo Cardinal plays a tribal elder who runs a casino and is portrayed as a sort of quasi-mafioso (albeit one who is usually on the protagonist's side) that enforces the law on her reservation with whatever means she sees necessary.

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akg

akg

Does anyone here watch the CW's Nancy Drew? They've been doing a really good job including race issues in the scripts. One of Nancy's crew is Black and had a conversation last week with his Chinese-American girlfriend about why he was a different person around a Black guest star. They also covered why she hadn't been including him in her social media. The mystery 2 weeks ago was a cold case where a Black woman had gone missing around the same time as a young white girl so was mostly forgotten.

A lot of my shows have been adding plots to address everything that happened last summer and most have been really obvious and awkward. With Nancy Drew, everything fits and everyone is in character so I'd have no trouble believing these scripts were written without considering BLM (I hope that makes sense). 

(Nancy Drew is a surprisingly good show. I was not expecting to get hooked but I've started recommending it to friends)

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Trini

Trini

(edited)
2 hours ago, akg said:

A lot of my shows have been adding plots to address everything that happened last summer and most have been really obvious and awkward. With Nancy Drew, everything fits and everyone is in character so I'd have no trouble believing these scripts were written without considering BLM (I hope that makes sense). 

Apparently CW asked all their shows to address BLM/the protests/etc. (I don't know if other networks did, specifically.) Some shows are definitely doing it better than others.

Edited by Trini
durrr dropped word
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DearEvette

DearEvette

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Vanity Fair did a lovely oral history with the cast and crew of A Different World.

That was a great read.  Some really great insights. I do find it interesting how glaringly absent Charnele Brown (who played Kimberly ) was in this piece.  Only Jasmine Guy mentioned her and she wasn't even identified in one of the photos. It is so weird because outside of Jasmine, Kadeem and Darryl Bell she is probably the longest running actor on the show. 

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Bastet

Bastet

15 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I do find it interesting how glaringly absent Charnele Brown (who played Kimberly ) was in this piece.  Only Jasmine Guy mentioned her and she wasn't even identified in one of the photos.

I thought that was weird, too.  I liked this show when it was on (I don't think I watched all the way through, though), but haven't watched it much in syndication, so my memories are hazy.  My thoughts went to Jaleesa, Dwayne, Whitley, and Freddie.  But as soon as I saw her (uncredited) in that picture, I thought, "Oh - Kimberley!"  I scrolled back up to see if I'd missed talk of her, but nope, just that one mention by Jasmine Guy.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

21 hours ago, Anduin said:

I've never warmed to his work, but I do respect him as a person. All the more for this.

Gaiman has great ideas, but I struggle to connect with his writing the way I do with other writers. There's just something a little cold and dark about it for my tastes, but I can always see the amount of research and thought and imagination he puts into everything he writes.

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Nechon46

Nechon46

I'm late to this party.But I've never heard Jennifer Beals deny who she is in many interviews I 've heard her say she is biracial a product of a interracial marriage. She probably never spoke on it because in the 80s it was you were black or white no in between. Plus I read as a child she got bullied for being lighter than other kids in a all black neighborhood. Basically she is damned if she claims her blackness because people will say she is not black enough. But at the same time if she claims her white irish side she still isn't black enough. I see why she said she felt like she don't fit in. People can be truly mean.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

On 5/31/2021 at 5:24 PM, Nechon46 said:

I'm late to this party.But I've never heard Jennifer Beals deny who she is in many interviews I 've heard her say she is biracial a product of a interracial marriage. She probably never spoke on it because in the 80s it was you were black or white no in between. Plus I read as a child she got bullied for being lighter than other kids in a all black neighborhood. Basically she is damned if she claims her blackness because people will say she is not black enough. But at the same time if she claims her white irish side she still isn't black enough. I see why she said she felt like she don't fit in. People can be truly mean.

Hi, I am late too. Yes Jennifer Beals has always identified as a black woman to my knowledge.

The poor woman had to spend her ENTIRE career (up until the L-Word I think) portraying black women passing for white (for a variety of reasons). Finally on the L-Word she got to play a bi-racial character. About damn time for her! That had to be so annoying. Just because a POC may be white-passing in some circles, doesn't mean they owe anyone a sign on their chest with their ethnic background on it.

I think Jennifer is gorgeous by the way.

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Finally on the L-Word she got to play a bi-racial character.

Yep.  And when she began to have more power in her career, she has made it a stipulation that the characters she plays are acknowledged to be biracial.  For instance, if her character has parents who appear on screen, at least one of them will be black.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

Yep.  And when she began to have more power in her career, she has made it a stipulation that the characters she plays are acknowledged to be biracial.  For instance, if her character has parents who appear on screen, at least one of them will be black.

I know that actors have to eat like everyone else, and sometimes have to take roles they are given just to pay the bills- but I think it was pretty awful that she was type casted the way she was ALL THE TIME just because of her phenotype. Yes, a few roles playing a white passing person, okay I could get that, but ALL OF THEM?? I can see how she would feel a certain type of way about that.

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

Meghan Markle did do Hallmark/Lifetime movies where she passed for white.

Vin Diesel has done it for like 1000 Fast and Furious movies.  Toretto sounds Italian to me. Jordana Brewster plays his sister.   There's also Hailee Steinfeld.

For the Asian actors, I assume Keanu is always playing white.  If anyone can find a movie where he played Asian I'd love to know.  His parents in movies are always white.  Mark Paul Gosselaar is the same.  

I noticed that Dennis Farina played J.Lo's father in "Out of Sight" (Karen Sisco) and then she was conveniently orphaned in "Monster in Law" (Charlie Cantilini).  She is also Italian in "The Wedding Planner".

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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DearEvette

DearEvette

40 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I would say Trioan yes, Maya Rudolf and Meghan Markle no.

I don't think Maya was never coded/type-casted that way because her being Minnie Riperton's daughter was very much pushed to the forefront of her public bio.  Much like Tracee Ellis Ross. 

Meghan, otoh, did not have a famous black parent so she was often cast as white passing.  So much so when Wendell Pierce showed up on Suits as her dad people were outraged to learn she and her character was biracial.  I don't remember if it was her ask or if it was the Suits people doing her a solid by casting Wendell as her dad.

Which is why the Rashida Jones thing is so weird.  Her dad is Quincy Jones, so she does have the whole famous black parent, but it still is crazy that people had no clue he was her dad until first she showed up on Black-ish.  And then again when she showed up on #BlackAF.  So lots of pearls get clutched. 

Another actor that gets people confused is Vella Lovell who played Heather on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.  She is also biracial (black and jewish) but she gets mistaken for SE Asian a lot.   But CEG got her parents correct.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Meghan Markle did do Hallmark/Lifetime movies where she passed for white.

Vin Diesel has done it for like 1000 Fast and Furious movies.  Toretto sounds Italian to me. Jordana Brewster plays his sister.   There's also Hailee Steinfeld.

For the Asian actors, I assume Keanu is always playing white.  If anyone can find a movie where he played Asian I'd love to know.  His parents in movies are always white.  Mark Paul Gosselaar is the same.  

I noticed that Dennis Farina played J.Lo's father in "Out of Sight" (Karen Sisco) and then she was conveniently orphaned in "Monster in Law" (Charlie Cantilini).  She is also Italian in "The Wedding Planner".

Although J.Lo played white characters, she I cannot recall a situation where she was playing a woman of color who was supposed to be passing for white as a storyline (that is what I meant). Same as Vin Diesel or Jason Moama.

As far as Meghan Markle, Maya Rudolph and Rashida Jones* they have never been white passing to my eyes, nor can I recall roles where that was the crux purpose of their characters and the struggle of the characters, the way I can with a number of Jennifer Beals roles. 

*of course I know who Rashina Jones father is so that is a huge thing

There is also a misconception in tv/movies that if an actor's ethnicity isn't specified they are automatically "white" which isnt true to me as a viewer especially if I see a woman that looks like Meghan Markle in the role. 

To be fair- I am glad that actors can get work, and if their "looks" allow them to play all different ethnicities, more power to them, but I can see how if that is the ONLY thing you are cast for it can get annoying. Yes its a step up from the days POC were not allowed to even portray ourselves on screen and makeup was put on white actors, but I know there are talented people of every ethnicity, color and hue with valuable stories to be told. 

 

50 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

So much so when Wendell Pierce showed up on Suits as her dad people were outraged to learn she and her character was biracial. 

When I heard about that I was appalled. 

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)
14 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

As far as Meghan Markle, Maya Rudolph and Rashida Jones* they have never been white passing to my eyes, nor can I recall roles where that was the crux purpose of their characters and the struggle of the characters, the way I can with a number of Jennifer Beals roles. 

*of course I know who Rashina Jones father is so that is a huge thing

I'm not sure what you mean.  Meghan and Rashida have had white parents in movies or no parents in movies.

Quote

In her 2014 movie, “When Sparks Fly,” Meghan Markle was given two white parents. In her other Hallmark film, “Dater’s Handbook,” which came out in 2016, the actresses who played Markle’s mother and sister were both white. (The character’s father is not depicted.) 

In "I Love You Man" Rashida's character is getting married and has a wedding, but she is conveniently orphaned so that people don't have to see Paul Rudd getting married to a Black woman. Pretty racist in my opinion.

Rashida also played Karen Filippelli on "The Office".  They made explicit reference to her character being Italian.

All of these are very obvious examples of whitewashing.  They could have easily given any of these characters 1 Black parent, but they deliberately didn't.  It would be one thing if the characters' parents are left vague or never mentioned onscreen, but they deliberately are given white family members so the characters are supposed to be white.

A very simple contrast to this would be Maya Rudolph.  Her father is Black in "Bridesmaids".  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I recall roles where that was the crux purpose of their characters and the struggle of the characters, the way I can with a number of Jennifer Beals roles. 

I can't recall a role where MM was meant to be white passing as a story; however, in two of her Hallmark movies, every relative shown was white.  In one movie, it was her parents. In another, it was her sister and mother.  Her dad wasn't shown.

For a lot of people, it would have never even occurred to them that the casting was off.  Honestly, it probably didn't occur to me either until I happened to read something about MM's parents even though it seems obvious to me now.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  Meghan and Rashida have had white parents in movies or no parents in movies.

Yeah but I always knew they were black/biracial actors playing white or black/biracial characters. 
 

 They weren’t black/biracial actors playing black/biracial characters where the driving force of their character arc was having to pass as white in society- in every single role. 

Scarlett45

Scarlett45

15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Are you saying that Jennifer Beals is playing a Black woman in Flashdance?  By all accounts her character is white.

Also in what movies have Meghan Markle or Rashida played Black women?  

200 (5).gif

No Jennifer Beals was playing a white character in Flashdance (was that her first big role?)

I was referring to her roles in Devil in a Blue Dress, and A House Divided (which was a TV movie, to keep it on topic). Sam Waterston (from Law and Order) played her Dad. Those are the most famous ones I remember from when I was young. 

I know Meghan Markle best from her role in Suits and her Hallmark movie- The Dater’s Handbook (where she was playing a white character), I LOVED that one. 

PS I love your GIF!

 

Guest

Guest

(edited)
2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For the Asian actors, I assume Keanu is always playing white.  If anyone can find a movie where he played Asian I'd love to know.  His parents in movies are always white.   

Keanu played Asian characters in Man of Tai Chi, 47 Ronin and Always Be My Maybe. Of course, he was the playing himself in the last one. 

Edited by Guest
Irlandesa

Irlandesa

(edited)
5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I was referring to her roles in Devil in a Blue Dress, and A House Divided

That was also Jennifer's arc on The Last Tycoon where (underrated show, IMO), if my memory serves, a studio head was blackmailing her to staying with his studio with the knowledge that her black maid was actually her mother. This was back in the 20s/30s.

 

Edited by Irlandesa
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

5 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That was also Jennifer's arc on The Last Tycoon where (underrated show, IMO), if my memory serves, a studio head was blackmailing her to staying with his studio with the knowledge that her black maid was actually her mother.

 

Yes!!!!!!!

Yeah- my issue is not that the Meghan Markles, Rashida Jones, Vin Diesels of the world are cast as white characters (sometimes), my issue is with the notion that a Jennifer Beals “type” is only wanted for a part if 1. Shes playing a white person OR 2. A black person who is passing for white to escape oppression, trauma, get ahead in their career etc.

It’s like saying her story as a biracial woman just living her life has no merit unless you know she’s “deceiving white people and going to be blackmailed for it as a cautionary tale.” That’s the awful thing. It’s so racist and sexist. 
 

I can imagine as an actress she would be so sick of that. 

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Dejana

Dejana

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

There is also a misconception in tv/movies that if an actor's ethnicity isn't specified they are automatically "white" which isnt true to me as a viewer especially if I see a woman that looks like Meghan Markle in the role. 

To be fair- I am glad that actors can get work, and if their "looks" allow them to play all different ethnicities, more power to them, but I can see how if that is the ONLY thing you are cast for it can get annoying. Yes its a step up from the days POC were not allowed to even portray ourselves on screen and makeup was put on white actors, but I know there are talented people of every ethnicity, color and hue with valuable stories to be told. 

I watched one of those Hallmark movies Meghan made: her ex was marrying her best friend in a July 4th themed wedding and her parents had a fireworks company struggling in sales. Two white actors played her parents. Maybe there were lines about her definitely being their biological child that I missed, but it really wasn't that kind of movie. So anyone could think she was supposed to be white, or not, and that she was adopted or there was a step-parent situation that a mid-2010s Hallmark movie wasn't going to get into. Now, if they were making that movie in 2021, hopefully, the casting is more diverse. 

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DearEvette

DearEvette

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

They weren’t black/biracial actors playing black/biracial characters where the driving force of their character arc was having to pass as white in society- in every single role. 

Ah, ok, I think we are all using the term 'white passing' a little differently.

Explicit white passing in the sense of a character in show where hiding their black identity to pass as white is part of the plot.  Like the daughter in the movie "Imitation of Life."

vs.

The meta way I think some of us are using it where a biracial actor who looks phenotypically white will get typecast as a white person either explicitly by showing their fictional character as having white parents and siblings  or implicitly by erasing any or all references to their other race -- i.e. no family, no cultural signifiers etc. and having them operate solely in white spaces.  

 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

A few months ago the Canadian show Kim’s  Convenience was cancelled because they show’s producers decided to stopping doing the show. Instead they decided to spin-off the one white series regular on the show. Now Simu Liu posted a scathing Facebook post. It’s so depressing that even shows that seem to be all about representation can fail so miserably behind the scenes. 

Kim's Convenience Star Slams Spinoff, Says 'I Will Adamantly Refuse to Reprise My Role in Any Capacity'

Edited by Guest
Dejana

Dejana

(edited)
1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Ah, ok, I think we are all using the term 'white passing' a little differently.

Explicit white passing in the sense of a character in show where hiding their black identity to pass as white is part of the plot.  Like the daughter in the movie "Imitation of Life."

vs.

The meta way I think some of us are using it where a biracial actor who looks phenotypically white will get typecast as a white person either explicitly by showing their fictional character as having white parents and siblings  or implicitly by erasing any or all references to their other race -- i.e. no family, no cultural signifiers etc. and having them operate solely in white spaces.  

 

The former, I've always known as "passing for white" and is something I personally associate with crossing the color line in older times, like during slavery or Jim Crow. "White passing" is more about the way a person looks vs. someone actively hiding their non-White background. Some prefer to call it "White presenting" because of the negative associations with the word passing.

 

IMO, it can be a nebulous concept because everyone's idea of "looking white" isn't the same. There was a contestant on The Bachelor last season who was the subject of much speculation about her racial identity. Some fans simply looked at her and immediately thought she had to have some Asian heritage, while others stalked her social media, saw a White mother and father and little brothers, with no mentions of being adopted, and noted that her name was Abigail Heringer. Her "storyline" on the show was about her having a cochlear implant, so that didn't settle the issue, either. After the season, Abigail did end up confirming that her biological father was Korean, but her mom remarried and her step-dad has been the real father in her life. Even after her racial background was confirmed, the arguments about whether or not she was "White passing" continued.

Edited by Dejana
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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

48 minutes ago, Dejana said:

IMO, it can be a nebulous concept because everyone's idea of "looking white" isn't the same. There was a contestant on The Bachelor last season who was the subject of much speculation about her racial identity. Some fans simply looked at her and immediately thought she had to have some Asian heritage, while others stalked her social media, saw a White mother and father and little brothers, with no mentions of being adopted, and noted that her name was Abigail Heringer. Her "storyline" on the show was about her having a cochlear implant, so that didn't settle the issue, either. After the season, Abigail did end up confirming that her biological father was Korean, but her mom remarried and her step-dad has been the real father in her life. Even after her racial background was confirmed, the arguments about whether or not she was "White passing" continued.

I could tell that she was part Asian but it was interesting that she never spoke about it on the show.  And with the Bachelor being the first Black Bachelor ever. It was something some of us were interested to hear about.

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Dejana

Dejana

(edited)
1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I could tell that she was part Asian but it was interesting that she never spoke about it on the show.  And with the Bachelor being the first Black Bachelor ever. It was something some of us were interested to hear about.

She grew up in a White immediate family, save her sister. It's a different experience than being someone who had an Asian parent/extended family as a steady influence in their lives. Also, I don’t know if the show forbid Abigail from talking about being biracial, but reality shows like to box people into one thing, and for her, it was being deaf. There were other women of color who were shown discussing their racial identities with Matt, sometimes, so it wasn't like that was off the table altogether. 

 

 

Edited by Dejana
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Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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