Race & Ethnicity On TV

[possibilities]

Damn. I was going to watch it, but now I guess I won't. Unless it's a set up to show him as a villain who fails miserably and gets a well-deserved comeuppance?

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Ugh, I just watched Rise. So, the guy from How I Met your Mother becomes the head of the drama department over the more experienced Rosie Perez? Even though he had no experience? And then promptly disregards everything she was doing. HATE.

And not either of the more talented leads from HIMYM, Jason Segal or Neil Patrick Harris.  This looks like Glee without the music.  Pass.

[Picture It. Sicily]

Quote

Michelle Hurd has been cast as one of the leads in the Cagney and Lacey reboot

Edited March 15, 2018 by Picture It. Sicily

[possibilities]

I just watched an interview with Jason Katims (on "Off Camera with Sam Jones"), who's running "Rise";  he talks about the guy whose story "Rise" is based on, and from the reverent way he talked about him, I highly doubt there's a comeuppance in the future of the character.

[Neurochick]

20 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Ugh, I just watched Rise. So, the guy from How I Met your Mother becomes the head of the drama department over the more experienced Rosie Perez? Even though he had no experience? And then promptly disregards everything she was doing. HATE.

I watched Rise and I thought it was pretty good.  Here's the thing though.  I wonder if in real life, since this was based on a real person, there was a Rosie Perez character.  The reason he was picked to be the head of the drama department was because he came cheaper than she.  That's what he was told, that the school will spend money on football, but won't lift a finger for the drama department.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

this was based on a real person

This is Network Excuse #3: "It's based on a real person, and there are no PoC who we could have picked.  Ida Wells?  Never heard of her."

[possibilities]

And also, they are going to take plenty of license to make stuff up and change the story around. Katims said in that interview that he used the original story as inspiration, but it's not a documentary, and he changed a lot of things, and it's no longer really about that original guy. There's no reason they have to either adhere to or manufacture things that are obnoxious. It's not better storytelling to do so.

[xaxat]

Darren Criss on Playing Serial Killer Andrew Cunanan in ACS: Versace and Passing As White

 

Quote

Is this the first time you’ve played a half-Filipino character? 
Yeah, it is, and the harsh truth is like, when else would that be a specific character? And that’s not a bad thing or a good thing. Somebody was talking about Asian-American representation, and he’s like, “I don’t see a lot of stuff for Filipinos specifically,” and I went, “I guess not, but I guess I don’t think about it.” I have the luxury of being half-white and looking more Caucasian, so it doesn’t weigh on my conscience as much, like, “Ugh, why aren’t there more roles?” I think as an actor, you just study and you wanna bring your A game all the time and hopefully it doesn’t even matter.

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

This is Network Excuse #3: "It's based on a real person, and there are no PoC who we could have picked.  Ida Wells?  Never heard of her."

So should they have had a white woman or a white man play the Rosie Perez role?  

It would have been better if Rosie Perez played the English teacher/turned head of the drama department.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

So should they have had a white woman or a white man play the Rosie Perez role?  

It would have been better if Rosie Perez played the English teacher/turned head of the drama department.

The former (white woman playing the Rosie Perez part) is far more likely (with Network Excuse #2: "We only hire the "best")

[possibilities]

No reason the lead/heroic savior of children and art had to be a white male, either.

[Jaded]

Here's an article about how Rise was changed for TV and etc....

I didn't watch the first episode that aired. Did anyone else?

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jaded

[RHJunkie]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:25 AM, xaxat said:

Darren Criss on Playing Serial Killer Andrew Cunanan in ACS: Versace and Passing As White

 

I read some of the backlash against him and I thought people were reaching a bit about denouncing his Asian roots and loving the fact that he only looks Caucasian (which by the way, I had no idea he was half Filipino). It sounds a lot like he's never had to think much about checking off a box to identify himself and that's probably large in part that people made the assumption without asking. I don't think that's indicative of denying his roots or denying his mother especially. If anything, I think his experience does speak to white privilege, that because he's mixed but looks white, he hasn't had the experiences that most minorities in Hollywood have or still face in terms of casting. He didn't manipulate his looks to look more white, that's just how things were for him and it sounds more like he sees his Filipino heritage as a surprising fact stemming from pride that he can say that this part of him also exists, even if you wouldn't think so just by looking at him.

While some people are disappointed that he doesn't outwardly walk around calling himself Asian-American, if he were to do that, he'd probably get labelled as someone who clearly looks white who is using his minority heritage as something to make him unique from his white counterparts. If he played several Filipino characters, it would be an issue of taking a job away from a more obvious minority looking actor while not being a relateable representation of a Filipino American. Point being, no matter what the situation is, there's always going to be people who will take issue.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

While some people are disappointed that he doesn't outwardly walk around calling himself Asian-American, if he were to do that, he'd probably get labelled as someone who clearly looks white who is using his minority heritage as something to make him unique from his white counterparts. If he played several Filipino characters, it would be an issue of taking a job away from a more obvious minority looking actor while not being a relateable representation of a Filipino American. Point being, no matter what the situation is, there's always going to be people who will take issue.

I think that there are some mines that biracial people have to navigate when it comes to identity especially if they don't looked 'mixed' enough.  In the case of Darren Criss, I could imagine that if he'd get a lot of and acceptance support by the Filipino community if he did loudly identify either as biracial or Filipino but conversely would get a lot of scorn if he denied or downplayed.  As you say, he can't help how he looks but when it comes to minority representation, he can help what he claims. Regards the casting, I don't know if him claiming Filipino heritage would actually help him in getting a leg up on roles that specifically call for an API character.  I don;t believe the Hollywood is subtle enough for that.  When they want to cast Asian they want the person to look Asian enough so people get the point.

I think Jennifer Beals is a very analagous case of this.  She is rather white passing.  But she very much claims her biracial identity.  But she doesn't get cast ever as a black woman or even a biracial black woman.  She has to fight for that sort representation on screen.  Hollywood tends to go lightskinned when they cast for black actresses, but not that light.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I think that there are some mines that biracial people have to navigate when it comes to identity especially if they don't looked 'mixed' enough.  In the case of Darren Criss, I could imagine that if he'd get a lot of and acceptance support by the Filipino community if he did loudly identify either as biracial or Filipino but conversely would get a lot of scorn if he denied or downplayed.  As you say, he can't help how he looks but when it comes to minority representation, he can help what he claims. Regards the casting, I don't know if him claiming Filipino heritage would actually help him in getting a leg up on roles that specifically call for an API character.  I don;t believe the Hollywood is subtle enough for that.  When they want to cast Asian they want the person to look Asian enough so people get the point.

I think Jennifer Beals is a very analagous case of this.  She is rather white passing.  But she very much claims her biracial identity.  But she doesn't get cast ever as a black woman or even a biracial black woman.  She has to fight for that sort representation on screen.  Hollywood tends to go lightskinned when they cast for black actresses, but not that light.

I'm not referring to actual advantages he would gain, but rather the perception.  I just think that no matter what he does, he'll be met with criticism related to how he managed his ethnic identify. Like you said, there are mines that biracial people have to navigate and a common challenge I hear is that they're often made to feel like they aren't enough of one thing so in you end up feeling pretty removed from any feeling of extended community. Incidents like this don't help matters when words are taken out of context and the worst kind of interpretation is applied in order to shame or criticize someone for any part of who they are.

[JBC344]

Jennifer played biracial in the L Word. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Jennifer played biracial in the L Word. 

I think she plays biracial quite a bit even if she was originally cast because she looks white.  I think I read that, when she gets roles, she will ask that her parents, if they ever appear, be cast to reflect her ethnicity.  I could be making that up but when I have seen her in roles recently, they do make it a point to acknowledge she is biracial even if it's not a huge plot point.  

The problem with Darren Criss's interview, I think, isn't that he was doomed either way but rather there is a nuance to addressing the priviledge of appearing white while also identifying a minority group of people.  I think he kind of lacked the ability to approach it in an intellectual or nuanced way so it read a bit clunky to me.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Jennifer played biracial in the L Word. 

Bette wasn't written or cast that way.  She had to fight to make Bette biracial. 

[Lugal]

56 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think she plays biracial quite a bit even if she was originally cast because she looks white.  I think I read that, when she gets roles, she will ask that her parents, if they ever appear, be cast to reflect her ethnicity.  I could be making that up but when I have seen her in roles recently, they do make it a point to acknowledge she is biracial even if it's not a huge plot point.

I remember I caught a show with Jennifer Beals a few years ago (forget the name) but they cast a black guy as her father and there was all sorts of whining about "PC casting".

[JBC344]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Bette wasn't written or cast that way.  She had to fight to make Bette biracial. 

I know that why I chose the word "played". 

 

1 hour ago, doram said:

I think the same thing happened to Meghan Markle in Suits. She is so ambiguous looking that they could have whitewashed Rachel. Instead they cast Wendell Pierce as her father in season 2 - and there was a lot of fan backlash. 

This is the type of thing that makes me lose faith in humanity and intelligence, The basic understanding that black people come in all different shades, sizes and personalities.

[Dee]

51 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

This is the type of thing that makes me lose faith in humanity and intelligence, The basic understanding that black people come in all different shades, sizes and personalities.

Just imagine the way fans would act if Wentworth Miller and/or Vin Diesel had unambiguously Black parents in a film or tv show.

[JBC344]

14 minutes ago, Dee said:

Just imagine the way fans would act if Wentworth Miller and/or Vin Diesel had unambiguously Black parents in a film or tv show.

Sad to admit this but I have actually had some very "stupid/frustrating" conversations with people who refused to believe that Vin or Wentworth were black.  Also Dwayne Johnson.

Also in these conversations the participants couldn't see the irony that the reason they refused to see these men as black was because they may not have fit into the "stereotype/picture" of what they think black men look/talk/act like. 

[Dee]

5 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

Sad to admit this but I have actually had some very "stupid/frustrating" conversations with people who refused to believe that Vin or Wentworth were black.  Also Dwayne Johnson.

Also in these conversations the participants couldn't see the irony that the reason they refused to see these men as black was because they may not have fit into the "stereotype/picture" of what they think black men look/talk/act like. 

It doesn't help that Hollywood perpetuates harmful ideas of what biracial/mixed people are 'supposed' to look like.

Not all mixed people look like Meghan Markle or Darren Criss or Camila Mendes.

Some look like Jordan Peele or Sharon Leal or Pete Wentz or Louis CK.

[Silver Raven]

Quote

It doesn't help that Hollywood perpetuates harmful ideas of what biracial/mixed people are 'supposed' to look like.

 

Singer Halsey.  Her father is black. She identifies as mixed race.

[Dee]

Hip Hop artist Logic. Also has a Black father and identifies as biracial.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The rise of Asian hunks - mentions a handful of actors/roles. Vincent Rodriguez (Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) and Manny Jacinto (The Good Place) were briefly interviewed. 

[BoogieBurns]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:08 PM, Silver Raven said:

 

Singer Halsey.  Her father is black. She identifies as mixed race.

Halsey looks so much like my mother that I knew she was black before I saw anything published about her ethnicity. She refers to herself as tri-bi: "biracial, bipolar, bisexual." So she isn't at all hiding her background. She has actually helped me explain how I'm black even if my mother looks like Halsey. Because Halsey is black (by my definition). 

With regard to casting parents that match the actor's ethnicity/race, Rashida Jones figured out the best way to shut up anyone who wanted to complain. She cast her actual parents; Quincy Jones and Peggy Lipton, to play her parents in Angie Tribeca. Although, eventually her dad's scenes were cut, he was recast due to his schedule and he was played by an even darker (and more handsome) black man Ernie Hudson. Everyone wins!

[RHJunkie]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:14 PM, JBC344 said:

Sad to admit this but I have actually had some very "stupid/frustrating" conversations with people who refused to believe that Vin or Wentworth were black.  Also Dwayne Johnson.

Also in these conversations the participants couldn't see the irony that the reason they refused to see these men as black was because they may not have fit into the "stereotype/picture" of what they think black men look/talk/act like. 

How is that even possible? They were actually refusing to believe their one of their parents were full or part black? Or was it a refusal to label a mixed person as black? I don't think any of the men you listed solely self-identify as black. They self-identify as mixed or a person of a colour from what I've read so I don't think refusing to see them as wholly black is about them not fitting into stereotypes. Now if they refuse to believe they are any kind of black and denounce their lineage because it doesn't fit a stereotype, well that's certainly frustrating to deal with.

On not of Vin, I've never read anywhere he talks about his biological father's ethnicity. I know he was raised by his black step-father but even before I had read any of this, I thought he was mixed with black anyhow so I wouldn't be surprised if his father was black or also mixed with traces of black lineage.

Edited March 23, 2018 by RHJunkie

[BoogieBurns]

52 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

On not of Vin, I've never read anywhere he talks about his biological father's ethnicity. I know he was raised by his black step-father but even before I had read any of this, I thought he was mixed with black anyhow so I wouldn't be surprised if his father was black or also mixed with traces of black lineage.

Vin is definitely black. I think I mentioned a while ago in this thread that when my friend met him personally, they discussed both being black men and how they feel like they have a shorthand with other black males. He both identifies as black and is black. Apparently, when you meet him in person, it's even more obvious. (But I didn't meet him)

[RHJunkie]

53 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Vin is definitely black. I think I mentioned a while ago in this thread that when my friend met him personally, they discussed both being black men and how they feel like they have a shorthand with other black males. He both identifies as black and is black. Apparently, when you meet him in person, it's even more obvious. (But I didn't meet him)

Identifying as black and being black is like Will Smith, Denzel Washington. When you're are of known mixed ancestry, you are mixed and identify as black (or insert whatever race applicable). I know you're sharing a personal account between Vin and someone else, but for the most part. all public information he's made available about his ethnicity points to him referring to himself as a person of colour, and referred to his ethnicity as being ambiguous. Perhaps that's the most honest way to put it seeing as by all accounts, he doesn't know much at all about his biological father, but identifying as a person of colour (and likely his biological dad being at least mixed with black because I do think the features are obvious to me) and being raised by a black step-father would make sense why he would identify as a black person, but again, that still makes him mixed. Self-identification doesn't negate biology.

[BoogieBurns]

10 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Identifying as black and being black is like Will Smith, Denzel Washington. When you're are of known mixed ancestry, you are mixed and identify as black (or insert whatever race applicable). I know you're sharing a personal account between Vin and someone else, but for the most part. all public information he's made available about his ethnicity points to him referring to himself as a person of colour, and referred to his ethnicity as being ambiguous. Perhaps that's the most honest way to put it seeing as by all accounts, he doesn't know much at all about his biological father, but identifying as a person of colour (and likely his biological dad being at least mixed with black because I do think the features are obvious to me) and being raised by a black step-father would make sense why he would identify as a black person, but again, that still makes him mixed. Self-identification doesn't negate biology.

I have never seen him self-identify in a public situation. If he says something different in interviews than he said in private, I totally get what you're saying. I was pointing out that his ambiguous look didn't make him less black. But if he refers to himself as "ambiguous" or "a person of color" then that may mean he is purposely allowing himself to be less black. That's fair, especially since he is more than one race. 

Question for you, just because the second sentence you wrote is so interesting to me: where does this put Vanessa Williams? She was of unknown mixed ancestry and identified as black. Only once she went on "Who Do You Think You Are" did she find mixed race relatives. Is that her being black and identifying as black a la Will Smith?

(I want to be clear that I am not saying anything with the intention of coming off rude. Tone is impossible on these boards, I just like learning how others see things)

[RHJunkie]

9 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I have never seen him self-identify in a public situation. If he says something different in interviews than he said in private, I totally get what you're saying. I was pointing out that his ambiguous look didn't make him less black. But if he refers to himself as "ambiguous" or "a person of color" then that may mean he is purposely allowing himself to be less black. That's fair, especially since he is more than one race. 

Question for you, just because the second sentence you wrote is so interesting to me: where does this put Vanessa Williams? She was of unknown mixed ancestry and identified as black. Only once she went on "Who Do You Think You Are" did she find mixed race relatives. Is that her being black and identifying as black a la Will Smith?

(I want to be clear that I am not saying anything with the intention of coming off rude. Tone is impossible on these boards, I just like learning how others see things)

Oh I see what you mean. In that case, I totally agree, his look doesn't make him any less black.

I guess I should take a moment to apologize and clarify some confusion that was my own fault. When you quoted me, you quoted a question/comment raised to another poster and I immediately treated it as a single discussion. So my comment about self-identification vs biology was more specific to the previous example of people who refuse to acknowledge Vin, Dwayne Johnson and Wentworth Miller as black. To my knowledge, none of these actors self-identify as black. As I've mentioned, I've only heard Vin publicly refer to himself as mixed. I've heard Wentworth refer to himself as mixed. I've heard Dwayne more identify with his Samoan roots but he also references his father's lineage so I would also put him in the category of someone who considers himself mixed. In the context of this particular example, it wouldn't be incorrect if they favoured calling those celebrities mixed, rather than black. This was my attempt at trying to see another perspective in why people would have such a hard time acknowledging the black ancestry of these celebrities.

However, I believe that there are a lot of factors that may influence how someone self-identifies and personally, I don't think it's my place to decide how to refer to someone when they've already decided for themselves how they identify. In your example of Vanessa Williams, I would say she's black. Both her parents self-identify as black and it was the only part of themselves they were sure of. Yes, biologically we may know now that she's quite a bit of mixed heritage but again, my personal position is that if her experience has been as a black woman (not a white woman or a mixed woman) and she says she's a black woman, then that's what I'm going to acknowledge her as.

But to acknowledge the point about not looking stereotypically black, Vanessa Williams may be just a little over 50% black biologically, but Tyra Banks is a great example of someone who's ancestry has been questioned all of her life because she's got a lighter skin tone and green eyes yet her DNA results show she's 79% African American. That's a high number. It definitely supports the point that both you and JBC344 make that some people are seen as less black because they don't fit the stereotype of what it means to be black.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

But to acknowledge the point about not looking stereotypically black, Vanessa Williams may be just a little over 50% black biologically, but Tyra Banks is a great example of someone who's ancestry has been questioned all of her life because she's got a lighter skin tone and green eyes yet her DNA results show she's 79% African American. That's a high number. It definitely supports the point that both you and JBC344 make that some people are seen as less black because they don't fit the stereotype of what it means to be black.

Totally agree. Thanks for explaining. This conversation has interested me ever since I saw Imitation of Life as a young child. 

[Dee]

Why are mixed people who have Black ancestry 'mixed' yet mixed people who have white ancestry White?

Like, nobody refers to Louis CK, Alexis Bledel or Cameron Diaz as Latino but mixed/biracial male celebrities such as Vin Diesel, Dwayne Johnson, Wentworth Miller's Blackness is treated as secondary to their "otherness."

And this only really happens with mixed race male celebrities. Usually, most mixed race female celebrities, ala Zendaya, Amandla, Tessa, Meghan etc, are largely considered Black.

[BoogieBurns]

7 minutes ago, Dee said:

Why are mixed people who have Black ancestry 'mixed' yet mixed people who have white ancestry White?

I'd guess it's hard as a country or planet to move past the one drop rule. That's all I can come up with.

[HunterHunted]

25 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I'd guess it's hard as a country or planet to move past the one drop rule. That's all I can come up with.

I don't know that we'll be able to really get past that until we don't have citizens and residents who remember formal segregation and people who had to conceal their race to pass. And even then, so many of our screwed up attitudes about race are baked into the culture.

[possibilities]

Joseph Gordon-Levitt lip syncing as Janet Jackson:

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/joseph-gordon-levitt-nailed-his-lip-sync-battle-performance-video-w158195/

I originally went to retrieve this video to post here because I sincerely thought JGL was Asian, and I after reading the Asian hunks article I thought of JGL as another example of an Asian male who owns his sexuality and gets recognized as sexy.

But now I don't know why I thought that. Looking at his bio on IMDB, it says his parents are Jewish. They come from eastern Europe, but Ashkenazi Jews are not generally considered Asian. I already thought he was Asian before I saw the performance linked above, so this idea didn't come from there.

But I'm posting it anyway, because I'm totally bewildered about where I got the idea that he's Asian, and when I went to see if there was any evidence, I found out that a lot of people have the idea that he is, even though he isn't. He also showed up on a "Asian or not" celebrity quiz. So it's just another example that looks aren't the most reliable way to assess someone's background.

And yes, I also know that "Asian" is a pretty broad category, and not all "Asians" look alike.

I also wonder if folks think him impersonating Janet Jackson is offensive appropriation. LSB does a lot of cross-gender performances, but I don't know about cross-racial ones.

Edited March 23, 2018 by possibilities

[Dee]

I thought JGL's Rhythm Nation Lip Sync was fantastic (ditto for Tom Holland's version of Rihanna's Umbrella).

As long as a lip sync is done respectfully, within the correct context (as theirs were done), it's fine imo.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Dee

[Irlandesa]

On 3/23/2018 at 4:42 PM, possibilities said:

LSB does a lot of cross-gender performances, but I don't know about cross-racial ones.

They do a ton of those as well.  I don't think they are as memorable as cross-gender because clothes/fashion tend to be assigned to specific genders more than specific races.  And they're not using makeup so people look like different races.

I don't recall JGL getting much flack for doing it largely because some performers use the performance to pay homage to the original artist and very few did it with as much care and detail as JGL.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Irlandesa

[xaxat]

On 3/22/2018 at 2:15 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The rise of Asian hunks - mentions a handful of actors/roles. Vincent Rodriguez (Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) and Manny Jacinto (The Good Place) were briefly interviewed. 

I'm surprised they didn't mention Terry Chen. He has exploded in the last year. The Expanse, Jessica Jones, and UnReal.

[Raja]

On 3/23/2018 at 1:58 PM, Dee said:

Why are mixed people who have Black ancestry 'mixed' yet mixed people who have white ancestry White?

Like, nobody refers to Louis CK, Alexis Bledel or Cameron Diaz as Latino but mixed/biracial male celebrities such as Vin Diesel, Dwayne Johnson, Wentworth Miller's Blackness is treated as secondary to their "otherness."

And this only really happens with mixed race male celebrities. Usually, most mixed race female celebrities, ala Zendaya, Amandla, Tessa, Meghan etc, are largely considered Black.

We are in a period of social change. Mixed race people with white ancestors being called white caught my eye.  Because for half of my lifetime if the other was known to have African heritage he was single dropped ruled into black, no matter what he looked like. Where as with a Native American ancestor he remained white, if slurred into a half breed at times like a Burt Reynolds or Chuck Norris might have been. Meanwhile with a single Asian parent the kid's race was determined by how East Asian he looked.

 

The first famous "mixed race" celebrity that I can remember was Tiger Woods on Oprah calling himself mixed with the comments from the greater black community the next day being Negro please, if you were not recognized as a superstar you are black on the street.  Since beyond his youth and wins that he was seen as black breakingthe formerly restricted  country club sport was what put him above other good golfers as well as the Asian women doing very well on the female tour

[Dee]

What I was getting at wasn't about CK, Bledel, or Diaz ethnicity vs. passing thing (ie, I'm well aware of the existence of white latinos), but why they're not referred to as Latin. In other words, why does their whiteness supersede their connection to their Latinx roots.

Whereas with mixed/biracial/passing Black male celebs their racial makeup is always in dispute. Hence your example of Meghan Markle or the contest of Dwayne/Wentworth/Pete/Vin's racial identity even from those who are aware of their racial background.

With mixed/biracial/passing Black female celebs, there's usually only dispute if/when they're cast in roles that fans believe should go to "monoracial" Black actresses ala casting Amandla in The Hate U Give or Zendaya & Laura Harrier in Spiderman Homecoming.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Dee

[DearEvette]

59 minutes ago, Dee said:

What I was getting at wasn't about CK, Bledel, or Diaz ethnicity vs. passing thing (ie, I'm well aware of the existence of white latinos), but why they're not referred to as Latin. In other words, why does their whiteness supersede their connection to their Latinx roots.

Whereas with mixed/biracial/passing Black male celebs their racial makeup is always in dispute. Hence your example of Meghan Markle or the contest of Dwayne/Wentworth/Pete/Vin's racial identity even from those who are aware of their racial background.

With mixed/biracial/passing Black female celebs, there's usually only dispute if/when they're cast in roles that fans believe should go to "monoracial" Black actresses ala casting Amandla in The Hate U Give or Zendaya & Laura Harrier in Spiderman Homecoming.

Honestly, I think it has to do more with phenotype than anything else.  That is why passing was such a big deal.  If you looked white, you could be white regardless of what your actual genetic makeup is.  People can't get past  people needing to look a certain way to be put in a certain racial box. 

WRT to Diaz, CK and Bledel -- putting aside how much or how little they themselves may identify with their Latinx roots -- again it is all about phenotype  They don't fit the ideal Latino/a "look" i.e. J.Lo, Gina Rodriguez or Eva Longoria so their whiteness trumps. This is also true with Afro-Latinas as well.  Their Afro-ness supercedes their Latiness.  There is actually a lot of current discussion about this most recently with Amara La Negra who talks about her struggles because, again, people consider Latinas to look white but not too white.  Added to that, Latino/as have to sound a certain way as well.  DIaz, CK and Bledel don't have an audible accent, not even a vague one.  It further distances them away from what the ideal Latino/a is supposed to be.

In regards casting of actresses like Amandla or Zendaya, I think some of the objection is part of the larger issue with people have in H'wood  with colorism, not that those actresses should necessarily not have been cast in those particular parts.  With Laura Harrier, the objection is without merit because her being biracial in Spiderman was a specific plot point.

[jhlipton]

I've seen a couple of articles about grown-ish not casting women who are "black enough".  To me, Halle and Chloe Bailey seem fairly dark, and are only lighter than Trevor Jackson. 

I've noticed that sometimes there seems to be an attitude of "never enough" (most pronounced to me when Disney released Brave, a complete change from their usual "princess movies" and I saw complaints about how there weren't any LGBT or differently abled people in it).  Am I wrong?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

There was a lot of controversy/shock/confusion when Wendell Pierce was cast as Rachel's father in Suits because Meghan was believed to be a White girl.

Yeah, "was believed" by people willfully blind, IMO. I don't imagine many Black members of the audience were surprised. The real shock to me was that the show even addressed it, and that they went with a Black father/White mother combo versus a White father/Black mother one. I'm not sure there was any need to cast Rachel's parents at all but apparently the showrunners felt they needed to build a bigger bio for her. For the most part Rachel's identity on Suits has been more informed by her socioeconomic background than her racial one.

[selkie]

On 3/23/2018 at 4:42 PM, possibilities said:

But now I don't know why I thought that. Looking at his bio on IMDB, it says his parents are Jewish. They come from eastern Europe, but Ashkenazi Jews are not generally considered Asian. I already thought he was Asian before I saw the performance linked above, so this idea didn't come from there.

But I'm posting it anyway, because I'm totally bewildered about where I got the idea that he's Asian, and when I went to see if there was any evidence, I found out that a lot of people have the idea that he is, even though he isn't. He also showed up on a "Asian or not" celebrity quiz. So it's just another example that looks aren't the most reliable way to assess someone's background.

 

There are a few ethnic minority groups in Europe with Asian roots like the Tatars who have substantial populations in Russia, Poland, and the like. And sometimes the genes from the Hun days show up again in visually interesting ways and you get people like Czech hockey player Jiri Hudler. 

[HunterHunted]

I've been watching Wild Wild Country on Netflix. And while it's obvious that something wasn't on the up and up with the Rajneesh religion and Ma Anand Sheela's manipulative schemes, I'm kind of appalled how many reviews of the series skip over the completely bigoted, racist, and threatening responses that these White Oregonians had to the group. White residents picketing with signs threatening the lives of Rajneesh followers, white residents calling the Rajneeshi animals and criminals, white residents shooting on to the Rajneesh lands, and suspending voter registration. And at no point am I excusing Sheela or the Rajneeshi because they also screwed over the homeless, who were disproportionately of color, that they invited on to their compound plus Sheela's crazy person murder schemes are not the least bit defensible. But it's straight up bullshit that white people can say out and out bigoted things, but every review of the series focuses on these crazy brown people.

[Lugal]

On 3/25/2018 at 1:12 PM, DearEvette said:

Honestly, I think it has to do more with phenotype than anything else.  That is why passing was such a big deal.  If you looked white, you could be white regardless of what your actual genetic makeup is.  People can't get past  people needing to look a certain way to be put in a certain racial box. 

It's a strange combination of looking a certain way and by assimilating (which was limited by how white one could look).  But white was always a legal category rather than an ethnicity, which various ethnic groups had to work their way into (by helping to uphold white supremacy).  At one time Jews, Italians, Irish and even Germans were not considered "white".

[Dee]

‘Hidden Figures’ Series in Development at Nat Geo

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The film was itself based on the book of the same name by Margot Lee Shetterly, which told the true story of the black female mathematicians who were instrumental in the early days of the American space program. The 2016 film starred Taraji P. Henson, Octavia Spencer, Janelle Monáe, Kevin Costner, Kirsten Dunst, and Jim Parsons. It was nominated for three Academy Awards, including best picture, and grossed over $235 million worldwide.

The TV project, which is in the early stages of development, will be executive produced by Peter Chernin and Jenno Topping of Chernin Entertainment, both of whom executive produced the film. National Geographic will also produce.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Dee

[Dee]

Tiffany Haddish to Produce Comedy Series ‘Unsubscribed’ in Development at HBO

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The project is titled “Unsubscribed.” It is described as an examination of female blackness, beauty, and identity through a behind-the-scenes look at the Instagram hustle.