Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Irlandesa]

On 7/29/2017 at 7:22 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

I think this is a good question and there are a lot of reasons.  There's the systematic racism ingrained in our culture in regards to people of color that doesn't quite exist with people who are Jewish. I think Confederate has producers who many think are already problematic bringing nothing to the public but an idea whereas MitHC was already a known property.  And it was one of the first Amazon originals so it wasn't as covered as HBO shows.

But I also don't want to dismiss the fact that there were concerns about MitHC.  And there were a lot of complaints about how it was marketed with things like swastikas in the NYC subway.  And while there is always antisemitism, the "it happened a long time ago/another country/we won the war" was probably pretty strong back in January of 2015 when this first debuted. Two years later and we have people who identify as Alt-Right and Neo-Nazis in the White House. Perhaps it wouldn't be met with the collective yawn that it was back then.

Perhaps the conclusion we should reach isn't how these shows are different but maybe that we should have turned more of a critical eye on MitHC.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Joe]

Sigh. Australia gets in on the game, by producing a Romper Stomper TV miniseries. I see no reason for this, there are a thousand ideas that don't involve neo-nazis on our screens. Yeah, the original movie isn't exactly a glorification of skinheads, but it's still deeply controversy-baiting and probably won't do anyone any good. I'm already making plans not to watch.

[slf]

When it comes to "prestige" historical projects there are two topics white guys love most: cowboys and slavery. (No points for guessing what these two have in common.) Not surprised HBO is going there but there's just no good reason to do Confederate. It's a wanky premise. What would America be like if slavery had continued? The global consequences of that would be unbelievably far-reaching so most of the show would be guesswork: to what end? Like, what is the point? You aren't trying to show the effects of the actual slave trade because this show will be (gross gross gross) fantasy*. They aren't making a show about the actual slave trade. It's not going to be educational. It's going to be "artistic" shots of "morally grey" white characters helping "noble" (which in these types of projects usually means "silently suffers and doesn't fight back") black characters who will be shown to suffer every cruelty and indignity imaginable, except you won't have to imagine it because knowing D&D they're going to show everything in explicit detail. "Complex" white villains will be played by ridiculously attractive and charismatic actors around whom huge fandoms will spring up online. Black viewers will be asked to watch gory whippings, hangings, burnings, and rapes and white viewers will glom onto the good white characters or revel in the horror. What is the upside? And if this is going to be huge, and it sounds like it is, then does this show end up having the largest number of black actors of any show on tv? And if so, what would that say? I just haven't read a single article that explains what the point is. Why would someone make this? It's like the tv equivalent of that guy who says he's just playing "devil's advocate" when he asks why racism is so bad or if rape should really be illegal.

*When white guys write fantasy why is it that they can never conceive of a world where rape or slavery don't happen? Like, it happens in our world, sure, but you're choosing to make it happen in your fantasy world- what's with that, hmm?

Edited July 31, 2017 by slf

[Joe]

3 hours ago, slf said:

*When white guys write fantasy why is it that they can never conceive of a world where rape or slavery don't happen? Like, it happens in our world, sure, but you're choosing to make it happen in your fantasy world- what's with that, hmm?

I write. Just for my own entertainment. I try to make my fiction on the plausible side. These things happen in real life under certain circumstances, shouldn't that be reflected in fiction? However, I don't actually show it happening on the page, and that the perpetrators are completely evil. I'd never do something like what you describe in your first paragraph. That's just not enjoyable to write about at all.

[possibilities]

It's not like we have a shortage of rape and slavery portrayals. It's a bit ridiculous how many, compared to just about anything else. You'd think that there would be a market for other narratives, but apparently this is all those creative geniuses can think about.

[BoogieBurns]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

You'd think that there would be a market for other narratives

Huge market. They are ignoring the market that would prefer the other narratives. 

[xaxat]

Last night on GOT, they eliminated the last characters from Dorne, one of the regions run by people of color. Grey Worm and the Unsullied were sent on something barely more than a suicide mission (if he dies, I riot) and Tyrion says they are doing it for "freedom". I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.

At this point, I don't care if the show has AA showrunners, this is going to production because it is a Benioff and Weis production. And I just don't trust them to do race.  

(Remember how well they handled rape on GOT?)

[slf]

8 hours ago, Joe said:

I try to make my fiction on the plausible side. These things happen in real life under certain circumstances, shouldn't that be reflected in fiction?

Why is it that in order to ground fantasy violence against minorities has to be included? Isn't the point of fantasy that it isn't real life? And why is it that the awful things that happen in real life always also have to happen to the same demographics in fantasy? As Maggie Stiefvater wrote "I’m talking about novels where the rape scene could just as easily be any other sort of violent scene and it only becomes about sex because there’s a woman involved. If the genders were swapped, a rape scene wouldn’t have happened" "And that starts to feel a lot less like realism and more like a malingering culture of women as victims." Rape is the example there but it works with most any form of violence against minorities. I just think it says a lot that male fantasy writers are more likely to insist rape has to be included and white fantasy writers are more likely to insist that racism/white supremacy/slavery has to be included. For the realism. In fantasy.

[Joe]

3 minutes ago, slf said:

Why is it that in order to ground fantasy violence against minorities has to be included? Isn't the point of fantasy that it isn't real life? And why is it that the awful things that happen in real life always also have to happen to the same demographics in fantasy? As Maggie Stiefvater wrote "I’m talking about novels where the rape scene could just as easily be any other sort of violent scene and it only becomes about sex because there’s a woman involved. If the genders were swapped, a rape scene wouldn’t have happened" "And that starts to feel a lot less like realism and more like a malingering culture of women as victims." Rape is the example there but it works with most any form of violence against minorities. I just think it says a lot that male fantasy writers are more likely to insist rape has to be included and white fantasy writers are more likely to insist that racism/white supremacy/slavery has to be included. For the realism. In fantasy.

I see your point, and actually very nearly agree with you. All I can say is that sometimes it feels right to include these elements, though I don't actually like them. Besides, I'm talking space opera. Does it count if the Hutts are oppressing the Twi'leks, for example?

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, slf said:

 Why would someone make this? It's like the tv equivalent of that guy who says he's just playing "devil's advocate" when he asks why racism is so bad or if rape should really be illegal.

@slf your entire post was a thing of beauty but you really nailed it with this particular sentence.  I agree.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Neurochick]

On July 29, 2017 at 11:33 AM, DearEvette said:

The other thing that makes we wary is that given their source material with GOT, they've made Cersei (who is a real villain in the books) rather root worthy in the show.  A lot of it has to do with Lena Headey's performance, but they've made Cersei sympathetic and imo she is rather monstrous.  There is some real concern, which to their credit they do acknowledge, in making modern day slave owners look sympathethic or conflicted.  I know that it is a really complex stew, anyone who read Alex Tizon's recent essay about the woman who worked in his household who was in fact his family's own modern day slave, can really see how a person who owns a slave in the modern day in the US can seem kinda sympathethic & conflicted about it.  But in or current political climate I have no time for that.

I'm a bit confused about this, because no one I know, no one with any sense sees Cersei as sympathetic at this point in the story.  However, Lena Headley is such a good actress that you can't take your eyes off her; a lesser actress probably would have fucked up the part.  

My problem with Confederate, or whatever it's called is, it makes ZERO fucking sense.  The reason the south lost the Civil War, was because a) Sherman burned the fuck out of Atlanta and every place he went, and b) the south exhausted themselves and just ran out of people.  There were just more people in the Union army and they could have kept going and going and going.

One thing I do have to say is, I started watching "The Last Tycoon" on Amazon, I think I got through half of it and stopped because it's so fucking stupid.  It takes place in Hollywood, 1936, and there's this character who is passing for white.  What made me laugh was, when one of the characters confronts her on it and I laughed because the actress is biracial in real life and when she first came out, a lot of people didn't even know she was biracial, in fact I didn't even know she was biracial, until she said so in an interview; so how could this guy tell?  I felt that whole thing was stupid.  

[Trini]

It would be awesome if they couldn't make this because every black actor in Hollywood refused to take part. There must be a way to organize this....

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think they're definitely trying to at least organize a movement on Twitter.  #NoConfederate was trending WORLDWIDE during Game of Thrones last night, and that only took 3 days of planning.  That went beyond the organizers' goal.

[Lugal]

The South winning the Civil War is probably one of the most overused tropes in Alternate History (with the second or possibly first being Nazis winning WWII) And for many years, slavery was glossed over in a lot of those stories.  Now it seems the pendulum has swung the other way, to the point of reveling in it.

There are ways the South could have gained independence, but I don't think the showrunners though it through (I mentioned it in the shows in development thread) and that brings up the core problem:  If it was handled well, the show could really highlight a lot of issues in today's society, but no one trusts the showrunners to handle the material well given their history on GoT.

[Dee]

‘Black America’: Amazon Alt-History Drama From Will Packer & Aaron McGruder Envisions Post-Reparations America

Quote

Another alternate history drama series, which has been in the works at Amazon for over a year, also paints a reality where southern states have left the Union but takes a very different approach. 

Titled Black America, the drama hails from top feature producer Will Packer (Ride Along, Think Like A Man franchises, Straight Outta Compton) and Peabody-winning The Boondocks creator and Black Jesus co-creator Aaron McGruder. It envisions an alternate history where newly freed African Americans have secured the Southern states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama post-Reconstruction as reparations for slavery, and with that land, the freedom to shape their own destiny.

The sovereign nation they formed, New Colonia, has had a tumultuous and sometimes violent relationship with its looming “Big Neighbor,” both ally and foe, the United States. The past 150 years have been witness to military incursions, assassinations, regime change, coups, etc. Today, after two decades of peace with the U.S. and unprecedented growth, an ascendant New Colonia joins the ranks of major industrialized nations on the world stage as America slides into rapid decline. Inexorably tied together, the fate of two nations, indivisible, hangs in the balance.

[CoderLady]

I'd watch that. What sets this apart from all the other fantasies is that this one has very little room for the usual "white savior helps the po' black people gain their dignity and freedom" plot that pretty much all dramas about black/white race relations have. We'll see.

[HunterHunted]

On 7/29/2017 at 9:06 AM, Joe said:

This is just my guess, but High Castle is based on a Philip K Dick novel, and he wrote about many things. Maybe one racially dodgy thing is all right. Besides, the book has been around for decades, and time has a way of smoothing these things over. Whereas Confederate is a highly dodgy sounding project from two people who already have a reputation for dodginess. And let's be honest, race relations aren't exactly at a high point at the moment. This seems to be adding fuel to the fire.

I think it's also because the US doesn't have the emotional and psychic scars from WW II battles being fought on American soil. I  imagine a version of High Castle set in and filmed in Great Britain, France, and Germany would definitely provoke outrage in those countries. In the US, we have national landmarks where Civil War battles were fought and slaves were smuggled through the underground railroad, monuments dedicated to notable Confederate individuals, Confederate flags flown over statehouses, and states that celebrate confederate memorial day. There is so much about the Civil War that is still unresolved in the US. Also David and David have a reputation for dodginess.

[Silver Raven]

I don't recall any outrage over SS-GB.

[Jaded]

Keep on digging that hole CBS....
 

CBS Chiefs: ‘Hawaii Five-0’ Actors Were Offered ‘A Lot of Money to Stick Around’

[Annber03]

Given the horrible way CBS seems to treat their actresses (see the recent news about Erinn Hayes' character on "Kevin Can Wait" as yet another example in action), that just further added to my belief that race was definitely an issue in the H50 situation. You show signs of one type of discrimination, it's quite likely signs of other types of discrimination will pop up as well. 

And yes, CBS' lame attempts at responding to the controversy definitely don't help their case, either. 

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Quote

 

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Edited August 1, 2017 by Annber03

[DearEvette]

Apparently CBS is getting drilled by the press at the TCAs for their lack of diversity.  Someone on twitter actually posted that the room felt "hostile" because the press were relentless in their questioning and the CBS execs are being defensive.  Someone else called it a "lashing"and a "crush of questions." Apparently one press member called them out at being the least diverse network saying "you've been bypassed by everyone else."  When they give the old chestnut about casting the best people for the job, Mo Ryan pointed out that their casting dept. is all white men.  Also someone asked about the Andy Weir project that they white-washed..  Oh yes, I am loving the tea on this.

Here are a couple of  early posts about it.

[ApathyMonger]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

I don't recall any outrage over SS-GB.

Did it ever air in the US?

It also wasn't very good and didn't do that well ratings-wise in the UK.

[DearEvette]

Oh, forgot to add apparently Amazon is also developing their own Alt-History take on post Civil War.  In theirs newly freed slaves were given parts of the South as their own sovereign nations as reparations.  Here is an article about it.

[Silver Raven]

5 minutes ago, ApathyMonger said:

Did it ever air in the US?

It also wasn't very good and didn't do that well ratings-wise in the UK.

Yes, it did.  I don't remember where, though.

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Jaded said:

Keep on digging that hole CBS....
 

CBS Chiefs: ‘Hawaii Five-0’ Actors Were Offered ‘A Lot of Money to Stick Around’

It's especially obnoxious because Scott Caan films 5 to 6 episodes less than Alex, but gets paid the exact same amount. Alex was injured during this last season so Daniel Dae Kim ended up having to step up and film more. Given that, CBS should have been a lot more grateful.

[slf]

On 7/31/2017 at 6:23 PM, Joe said:

I see your point, and actually very nearly agree with you. All I can say is that sometimes it feels right to include these elements, though I don't actually like them. Besides, I'm talking space opera. Does it count if the Hutts are oppressing the Twi'leks, for example?

I was not talking about space operas and the oppression of non-existent species. 

[Dee]

OWN Plots Post-Tyler Perry Future as Black Hitmakers Are in Demand

Quote

The moves by Universal, Viacom and OWN come against a backdrop of dispiriting statistics about Hollywood's lack of racial and gender diversity behind the camera. A new USC Annenberg study reveals that of the top 100 grossing films domestically that hit screens in 2016, only seven black filmmakers held the director position.

The hyper-prolific Perry is considered the big fish in this pond. He has "been a big part of the network's growth," acknowledges OWN's Logan. But while Perry's dramas The Haves and the Have Nots and If Loving You Is Wrong are averaging a combined 5.5 million viewers a week, the 2016 launches of acclaimed dramas Queen Sugar and Greenleaf (which are averaging 4.5 million viewers between them) proved the network doesn't necessarily need Perry's name above the title to draw viewers. And Logan says it will be "business as usual" with the filmmaker as he prepares to move to Viacom. 

Case in point: OWN is getting ready to launch another new comedy from Perry, The Paynes, in early 2018 with a 38-episode first season, and Perry will remain at OWN until the Viacom deal kicks in in 2019. Adds Logan: "The good news is that Tyler's not going anywhere for a while."

Edited August 2, 2017 by Dee

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

"The good news is that Tyler's not going anywhere for a while."

We all have our version of the word good, I see.

[xaxat]

7 hours ago, Dee said:

A new USC Annenberg study reveals that of the top 100 grossing films domestically that hit screens in 2016, only seven black filmmakers held the director position.

I wonder what that number would be if you looked at return on investment (net instead of gross). I don't like them, but Tyler Perry's films always make money.

This year, F. Gary  Gray conquered the world with FF8. Jordan Peele had a huge ROI with Get Out . M. Night Shyamalan returns to form with Split.  Malcolm D. Lee, Girls Trip. All of these movies did well at  the box office, but where they really succeeded was earning far more than their budget. (Feel free to add any that I have missed.)

Do the studios want to break even again giving Ridley "I couldn't hire people of color for a movie about Ancient Egypt because no one would want to see them." Scott yet another attempt to tell an Alien story? Or do they want to back directors who make them money?

I actually think the studios might be picking up on that. This year, Taika Waititi's Thor:Ragnarok will probably smash (heh) the box office. Next year James Wan, Ryan Coogler and Ava DuVernay get their shot. We'll see.

[Irlandesa]

On 7/30/2017 at 8:11 PM, BoogieBurns said:

I would love to see a series about Black Wall Street, before it crumbled.

This was the first I heard of this and I wanted to find out more about this piece of history.  There is no series in the making but I did stumble on news that the book, Holocaust in the Homeland: Black Wall Street's Last Days is being adapted into a movie directed by Tim Story.

[BoogieBurns]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

This was the first I heard of this and I wanted to find out more about this piece of history.  There is no series in the making but I did stumble on news that the book, Holocaust in the Homeland: Black Wall Street's Last Days is being adapted into a movie directed by Tim Story.

Oh great, I'd love to learn more about it too. Great find!

[jhlipton]

Re rape and slavery: post-apocalypse writers love to combine the two in "THE Happy Brothel".  Seems like Every. Damn. Story has a place where the workers aren't exploited, nosiree!

On 8/1/2017 at 1:48 PM, Dee said:

‘Black America’: Amazon Alt-History Drama From Will Packer & Aaron McGruder Envisions Post-Reparations America

I will have to get Amazon Prime just for this.

On 8/1/2017 at 4:37 PM, DearEvette said:

When they give the old chestnut about casting the best people for the job...

I can think of a half dozen black women better than Poppy Montgomery!

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I did stumble on news that the book, Holocaust in the Homeland: Black Wall Street's Last Days is being adapted into a movie directed by Tim Story.

Cool!

[xaxat]

Ta-Nehisi Coates on Confederate.

Quote

The problem of Confederate can’t be redeemed by production values, crisp writing, or even complicated characters. That is not because its conceivers are personally racist, or seek to create a show that endorses slavery. Far from it, I suspect. Indeed, the creators have said that their hope is to use science fiction to “show us how this history is still with us in a way no strictly realistic drama ever could.” And that really is the problem. African Americans do not need science-fiction, or really any fiction, to tell them that that “history is still with us.” It’s right outside our door. It’s in our politics. It’s on our networks. And Confederate is not immune. The show’s very operating premise, the fact that it roots itself in a long white tradition of imagining away emancipation, leaves one wondering how “lost” the Lost Cause really was.

[Dee]

Why Don’t Dystopias Know How to Talk About Race?

[possibilities]

I haven't read the article yet, but I am guessing it's because they're written by white people.

[jhlipton]

Procter & Gamble, a company that has long promoted true diversity, released an ad called "The Talk", and the reaction of wypeebles was predictable: racist, divisive, blah, blah, blah.

 

Here's an idea: if this ad makes you uncomfortable, MAYBE you could ask yourself why????  Bah, much easier to blame SJWs.

[Trini]

Another comment from Daniel Dae Kim about his Hawaii Five-0 exit:

Quote

Kim had been asked – again – to discuss his decision to exit the CBS procedural, a topic that has been covered long and often since it happened.

“I’ve known [CBS Entertainment President] Kelly [Kahl] and [CBS SEVP Programming] Thom [Sherman] for a while…I know them, and like them, and am grateful to them for the words they said on their panel the other day.”

“That said, it’s possible to be grateful and respectful, and still maintain a steadfast sense of your self worth,” Kim said, pointedly.

Also he's a producer for The Good Doctor, which I didn't know!

Edited August 6, 2017 by Trini

[Silver Raven]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Another comment from Daniel Dae Kim about his Hawaii Five-0 exit:

Also he's an producer for The Good Doctor, which I didn't know!

They did an ad for The Good Doctor before the movie I saw yesterday, and Daniel Dae Kim as executive producer was a featured item.  Hill Harper is also a featured character on the show, and a glance at imdb's cast list shows doctors played by Nicholas Gonzalez, and Chuku Modu, and Jasika Nicole is apparently a regular.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

They did an ad for The Good Doctor before the movie I saw yesterday, and Daniel Dae Kim as executive producer was a featured item.  Hill Harper is also a featured character on the show, and a glance at imdb's cast list shows doctors played by Nicholas Gonzalez, and Chuku Modu, and Jasika Nicole is apparently a regular.

Antonia Thomas, whom I've loved since Misfits, is also a regular.

[Silver Raven]

Daniel Dae Kim on The Good Doctor and his exit from Hawaii 5-0

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/06/hawaii-five-0-daniel-dae-kim-exit/?

[Dee]

Ava DuVernay is developing Octavia Butler's sci-fi novel, 'Dawn' as a television series with Macro, Victoria Mahoney

Quote

In Dawn, after war has culminated in a nuclear apocalypse and the near extermination of the human race, the survivors are rescued by an alien species and kept in suspended animation on an Earth-like spaceship. Lilith Iyapo, a black woman, is the first to be awakened and is chosen to lead her people into an uncertain future. She is faced with a choice: adapt or die. But, what good is survival if it comes at the cost of humanity? 

[xaxat]

22 minutes ago, Dee said:

Ava DuVernay is developing Octavia Butler's sci-fi novel, 'Dawn' as a television series with Macro, Victoria Mahoney

I just read the headline about this at io9  and I literally yelled "Oh my God!" and was left speechless.

Dreams do come true.

[festivus]

That sounds really good. Unless I just somehow missed it I didn't see what network it would be on. I hope it's on something I can get. 

[Neurochick]

CBS needs to stop the bullshit and be honest.  Just say that they are a network for old, conservative white people (remember shows like Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, Green Acres, My Three Sons and Gilligan's Island?), that their formula has worked for decades and they're not going to change.  They need to stop with the bullshit of pretending to be diverse because everybody can see right through them.

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

Ava DuVernay is developing Octavia Butler's sci-fi novel, 'Dawn' as a television series with Macro, Victoria Mahoney

Ava must've heard my constant whining.  LOL.

[CoderLady]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

CBS needs to stop the bullshit and be honest.  Just say that they are a network for old, conservative white people (remember shows like Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, Green Acres, My Three Sons and Gilligan's Island?), that their formula has worked for decades and they're not going to change.  They need to stop with the bullshit of pretending to be diverse because everybody can see right through them.

Which brings me to what probably belongs in the Unpopular Opinions thread: this is ok. There are hundreds of networks and streaming channels, something for every different demographic now, instead of way back in the mid-1950's when everything was aimed at white, middle-class nuclear families. Now the choices for CBS's core audience have shrunk to pretty much just this one network so I say let them have it.

I agree that CBS needs to stop promising diversity, because it would be a waste of time and money to try to change their formula. It wouldn't go over big with their base audience and it wouldn't attract new viewers. And no, I'm not one of their target demographic, I just don't see the point of messing with other people's shit when it doesn't affect me.

[Neurochick]

22 minutes ago, CoderLady said:

Which brings me to what probably belongs in the Unpopular Opinions thread: this is ok. There are hundreds of networks and streaming channels, something for every different demographic now, instead of way back in the mid-1950's when everything was aimed at white, middle-class nuclear families. Now the choices for CBS's core audience have shrunk to pretty much just this one network so I say let them have it.

I agree that CBS needs to stop promising diversity, because it would be a waste of time and money to try to change their formula. It wouldn't go over big with their base audience and it wouldn't attract new viewers. And no, I'm not one of their target demographic, I just don't see the point of messing with other people's shit when it doesn't affect me.

I have to agree with this.  CBS has always been about conservative, older, white people.  When I was a kid, CBS was for the older folks, ABC was youth and NBC was in the middle.  CBS needs to just admit what they are and call it a day.  As long as their audience likes what they're selling, CBS will keep selling it.

[proserpina65]

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 6:43 PM, xaxat said:

Ta-Nehisi Coates on Confederate.

Then the answer, if the show actually gets made (not a word of a script has even been written yet) is to not watch it.

14 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I have to agree with this.  CBS has always been about conservative, older, white people.  When I was a kid, CBS was for the older folks, ABC was youth and NBC was in the middle.  CBS needs to just admit what they are and call it a day.  As long as their audience likes what they're selling, CBS will keep selling it.

CBS' biggest shows tend do well in the much-desired 18-49 demographic, so I'm not sure that it's accurate to say that CBS is about older people.  The rest may very well be true, however.

[xaxat]

Shonda Rhimes Moves to Netflix From ABC With Huge Overall Deal

Good for her.

[Miss Dee]

I can see that working for CBS right now - but what about in another 20-30 years?

LOL Listen to me, thinking TV networks are going to exist in 30 years....