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Race & Ethnicity On TV

callie lee 29

By callie lee 29
in Everything Else TV

Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

Heck, half of the actresses on the original EW list were too old, even if they could get away with playing younger.

Aside: maybe it's just me, but Tika Sumpter could pass as someone in her late teens/early 20s as well as Kiersey Clemons, who is actually in her early 20s (the latter is allegedly on the short list for DC Film universe Iris West, another controversy).  

But really, didn't the comic just come out? I mean, even assuming the studio was eventually planning to make a film based on the character (or include the character in future films), it's way too soon for a media outlet to speculate on this.  Fan casting? I get.  But everything about EW's article, from the content to the actresses they put on the Twitter image, screamed "incendiary" to me.  I suspect there's more than few articles deliberately written to spark a response from "Black" Twitter. There's money to be made in trolling for retweets, no doubt.  

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jhlipton
jhlipton

I have a lot of friends who are very active in working against racism and sexism and not a single one hates whites or men.  White male ego is so fragile that two women of color on the latest Star Trek

Trini
Trini

I mean, sure; but it would be weird to have everyone on TV look like this:   I personally like seeing people of different ethnicities in my entertainment.

DearEvette
DearEvette

Megyn Kelly doesn't have the charm or charisma to attract a morning talk show audience or any sort of positive attention.  The only time she gets any attention is when she does something execrable.

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Raja

Raja

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Heck, half of the actresses on the original EW list were too old, even if they could get away with playing younger.

Aside: maybe it's just me, but Tika Sumpter could pass as someone in her late teens/early 20s as well as Kiersey Clemons, who is actually in her early 20s (the latter is allegedly on the short list for DC Film universe Iris West, another controversy).  

But really, didn't the comic just come out? I mean, even assuming the studio was eventually planning to make a film based on the character (or include the character in future films), it's way too soon for a media outlet to speculate on this.  Fan casting? I get.  But everything about EW's article, from the content to the actresses they put on the Twitter image, screamed "incendiary" to me.  I suspect there's more than few articles deliberately written to spark a response from "Black" Twitter. There's money to be made in trolling for retweets, no doubt.  

Sure it is fan casting. People have been speculating about a Myles Morales (Spiderman) and Kamala Khan ( Ms. the original later became Captain Marvel) even before the character whose role they assumed upon the original's death or retirements have made it to the screen. But assuming the MCU doesn't collapse under its own weight or the powers that be don't get scared with their stars aging out of the roles and reboot a new Tony Stark instead of moving on, talking about  a  replacement for Tony Stark as the man in the armor is at least 3 years out it is just nerd speculation at this point.

ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

(edited)
On 7/20/2016 at 2:58 PM, netlyon2 said:

New trailer for "Queen Sugar":  http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/watch-the-trailer-for-ava-duvernays-queen-sugar.html?mid=twitter_vulture

I just requested a forum for it; I had to do something to channel my Black Sails sadness. :-(

Thanks for the forum request - see you there!

On 7/20/2016 at 3:57 PM, xaxat said:

Wow, my prediction about UnReal turned out to be as wrong as the one I made about Trump having no shot at being the Republican nominee. 

I'm afraid to ask (or Google) what happened...

ETA: never mind, just read about it on another thread. 

Edited by ribboninthesky1
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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

DearEvette, I just read your post on the experiences of multiracial people and it was so great!  Instead of the over simplistic, "Let me tell you how it is" broad strokes, unintelligent, generalizations I USUALLY have to read about multiracial people, your post was so nuanced, thoughtful and relatable.  Just loved it.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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DearEvette

DearEvette

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

DearEvette, I just read your post on the experiences of multiracial people and it was so great!  Instead of the over simplistic, "Let me tell you how it is" broad strokes, unintelligent, generalizations I USUALLY have to read about multiracial people, your post was so nuanced, thoughtful and relatable.  Just loved it.

Awww, thanks.

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Luckylyn

Luckylyn

(edited)
13 hours ago, JBC344 said:

In interesting casting news.  Rihanna has been cast as Marion Crane for the final season of Bates Motel.  Marion Crane is the iconic character that Janet Leigh played in the original movie. 

Is she going just going to appear in the final episode or will there be a multi-episode arch of her staying at the motel?  I didn't know she acted.  I love Bates Motel so much and most of the time the casting is great.

Edited by Luckylyn
DearEvette

DearEvette

I wonder how closely the show will follow the events of the movie now that is seemingly is catching up to the events of the movie with casting Rihanna as Marion.  Marion's appearance in the film is ten years after Norman had already killed his mother.  And Marion is basically an embezzler (a rather inept one really) who ends up at the motel while on the lam.  Can't help thinking of Bitch Betta Have My Money' (heh),  But if they follow even loosely the plot of the movie and plan to end the series with Norman committed then it is the people who come looking for Marion that eventually causes him to get caught. If that is the case I could envision a multi-episode arc but the iconic knifing not being the finale.

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JBC344

JBC344

I'm assuming that they will make it a multi-episode arc and that it will differ from the movie version.  I'm assuming that she will cross paths with both Norman and his mom, most likely culminating with the mother's and Marion's deaths as his last two victims before he is caught.  I imagine Marion being killed in the middle of the final season with the second half being Norman being investigated and caught.  We will see.

jhlipton

jhlipton

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

I'm assuming that they will make it a multi-episode arc and that it will differ from the movie version.  I'm assuming that she will cross paths with both Norman and his mom, most likely culminating with the mother's and Marion's deaths as his last two victims before he is caught.  I imagine Marion being killed in the middle of the final season with the second half being Norman being investigated and caught.  We will see.

Marion is not Norman's final victim.  That honor goes to Detective Milton Arbogast (Martin Balsam in the film).  His tumble down the staircase was memorable to me.

Luckylyn

Luckylyn

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

I'm assuming that they will make it a multi-episode arc and that it will differ from the movie version.  I'm assuming that she will cross paths with both Norman and his mom, most likely culminating with the mother's and Marion's deaths as his last two victims before he is caught.  I imagine Marion being killed in the middle of the final season with the second half being Norman being investigated and caught.  We will see.

Regarding Norma

Spoiler

Norman killed his mother in the second to last episode of Season 4.  So Norman will be on his own in Season 5 which matches the movie.

I wonder if they will do a time jump.  I can't wait to see how Season 5 plays out and how much of the storyline will match the movie. 

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JBC344

JBC344

33 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

Regarding Norma

  Reveal hidden contents

Norman killed his mother in the second to last episode of Season 4.  So Norman will be on his own in Season 5 which matches the movie.

I wonder if they will do a time jump.  I can't wait to see how Season 5 plays out and how much of the storyline will match the movie. 

I just heard of the "hidden" information after I wrote the post.  With that information I'm guessing Marion may now be a bigger part than originally thought. 

In2You

In2You

(edited)

Didn't know this topic existed until today. So I'm posting this here. Hallmark has been having whatever intern runs their facebook page respond lately with a generic message in regards to the lack of diversity. Meanwhile they have a new movie almost every weekend this year and even the two mixed actresses they managed to hire they had play white characters.

tumblr_o9x7h109cN1rhvwvxo1_500.jpg tumblr_o9vah0Cbs51rhvwvxo1_500.jpgtumblr_o9pk4o3FbQ1rhvwvxo1_500.jpg

Edited by In2You
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In2You

In2You

On 7/9/2016 at 10:49 PM, KnotsLanding said:

I've been reading this thread all day and have something I didn't see mentioned that might be interesting to discuss. Well obviously from my name I'm a soap fan and one of the most famous soap actresses is Victoria Rowell. She played Drucilla Winters on The Young and the Restless and was extremely popular throughout the 90s and 00s when she appeared. Her main costars were Tonya Lee Williams, Kristoff St. John and Shemar Moore and they all became huge in the soap community. In the 90s Rowell was so popular she also co-starred on Diagnosis Murder while also keeping her soap job which is very rare. She ended up leaving the show for a few years until Shemar Moore left and a leaked network report showed the show lost two million viewers with his exit so they brought Rowell back along with a lot of new minority characters.

Now the reason I mention this is because she is now suing Sony, CBS and the company that owns The Bold and the Beautiful because she's been blacklisted from appearing on soaps due to advocating for fair treatment of minorities. She has also been long branded as crazy and the typical angry black woman. She willingly left Y&R on 2007 (due to endless mistreatment by the cast and crew) and since then the show always teases her return, but they won't actually allow it to happen. 

Here is an article that gives some info on her lawsuit: http://tvline.com/2016/06/26/the-young-and-the-restless-victoria-rowell-lawsuit-proceeding/

The weird thing with her is that although there is so much proof to her claims, people still claim she is crazy, including some co-stars. One of her costars spit on her and has admitted it (although not apologized), but Rowell is still considered the crazy one. Brad Bell tried to bring her to The Bold and the Beautiful, but CBS wouldn't allow him to cast her. Maria Arena Bell (then serving as EP/Headwriter) tried to bring her back to Y&R and was also told no. Recently and an important part of her lawsuit is that she was asked to audition for a smaller role on Days of Our Lives and was removed from the audition list.

I cannot wait until this comes to trial because it will be juicy! Other actors on the show (Kriston St. John, Bryton James) have been suspended for speaking out on their poor treatment which is clear retaliation, not to mention all the other things that have happened. I could literally go on and on about the mistreatment of various minorities on soaps throughout the years. From having to either wear a wig or pay for your own hairstylist, to being relegated to only appearing once a week, to not getting the same writing/directing opportunities as your white cast members, the list goes on.

Victoria's problem is she's obsessed with getting back on a show that she says treated her terribly. And over the years has tended to go on long rants bashing everything about the show down to the advertisers. I do enjoy the movies she produces and stars in for UP TV but  wish she'd let go of Y&R. Its over and soaps are basically dead now anyway.  Stop ranting about Y&R and focus on the success she's had since then and continue pushing forward to prove how she doesnt need that show. 

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KnotsLanding

KnotsLanding

I don't think she's obsessed with getting back on the show. Since she's left the show has teased us several times with her return in script, flashbacks and with the soap opera magazines having her on the cover all the time acting like she's coming back. She's the most requested cast member to return so it's something she hears all the time. Like her lawsuit mentions, Maria Arena Bell tried to bring her back and they stopped her. Then Brad Bell tried to bring her to B&B either as a new character or as Drucilla and they stopped it. She tried to go to Days of Our Lives and they stopped it. That's the main issue here. She's now been offered a job on three soaps so she isn't just trying to go back to Y&R, she's trying to follow the demands and the offers given to her, but is being turned down because she dared speak out on mistreatment.

In related news, she has begun filming The Rich and the Ruthless which is based on her two novels. It's a tv movie with an option for a series if it's successful. She has some former Y&R cast members in the cast as well. It goes to further show that she can't be that difficult to work with if a network and production company was once again willing to work with her.

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

Some of the casting choices in Mr. Robot have been interesting. Even though character-wise the show is not particularly diverse, casting wise it is more so. Rami Malek, the lead, is Egyptian-American (as is Sam Esmail, the creator and showrunner). The core hacker group includes two Indian-American actors playing non Indian characters (Mobley and Trenton, the former being ethnically ambiguous and latter being an Iranian-American Muslim). Angela's lawyer is played by an Indian-American actress. To explain Elliot's ethnicity, an Indian actress was cast as his mother. .

Spoiler

His father is played by the very Anglo Christian Slater, and his sister by Carly Chaikin who is also very Anglo even though the character has the same mother as Elliot.

On one hand it's good that these actors are given the opportunities to play regular characters. On the other, a big part of the diversity problem in television and movies is that non-white characters are not featured in lead roles where their ethnicity is acknowledged but the character isn't defined by it. In a cast that features many actors of Indian and Middle-Eastern descent the only characters who share the ethnicity with the actors who play them are Sakina Jaffrey's Antara Nayar (the lawyer) and the pedophile whom Elliot busted to open the show.

It's a great show with a distinct, unique subversive voice and I can only hope that as it continues, there is more diversity featured with the characters.

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topanga

topanga

8 hours ago, netlyon2 said:

Ronin Jackson, those are some interesting points about Mr. Robot.  I'll def be mulling them over when I watch this week.

I actually came over to post some food for thought that I was mulling over this morning:

FOR LISA TURTLE: ON BEING BLACK, BEAUTIFUL, AND STILL NOT ENOUGH

Great article. I know this was only a minor point, but I always thought Lisa/Lark was the prettiest girl on SBTB and always wondered why the show never treated her that way. 

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Popples

Popples

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Great article. I know this was only a minor point, but I always thought Lisa/Lark was the prettiest girl on SBTB and always wondered why the show never treated her that way. 

Oh God, don't get me started on the episode where Zack and Lisa kissed, and they never mentioned it again. That still sticks in my craw after all these years.

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Luckylyn

Luckylyn

5 minutes ago, Popples said:

Oh God, don't get me started on the episode where Zack and Lisa kissed, and they never mentioned it again. That still sticks in my craw after all these years.

I was so bitter about that.  In the next episode,  there was no explanation for the breakup as if Zach and Lisa never dated.  I was so excited for the pairing and so disappointed it was dropped so abruptly.  Don't even get me started on the whole alternate universe where Jessie and Kelly didn't exist and yet still Zach and Lisa weren't allowed to date.  They paired Zach with lame Tori.    It was ridiculous that everyone including freaking Screech had a long term romance on that show except Lisa. 

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paulvdb

paulvdb

9 hours ago, topanga said:

Great article. I know this was only a minor point, but I always thought Lisa/Lark was the prettiest girl on SBTB and always wondered why the show never treated her that way. 

I always thought Kelly was the prettiest, but Lisa was not far behind and it certainly seems strange that no guy was ever into her except Screech (and Zach for that one episode that was never mentioned again).

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topanga

topanga

I'm not sure if this belongs in another thread, but...

This is a confusing issue (for me, anyway). The mother of Miss Teen Alaska is protesting the results of the Miss Teen USA pageant. Of the 51 contestants, only one of the top 15 contestants was a woman of color (her daughter Nneamaka Princess Isolokwu). And the five finalists were all blond-haired and blue-eyed. When I looked at all 51 contestants, about half were brunette. Four were women of color.  Nneamaka's mom is actually demanding a re-do of the entire pageant, which officials have already said is not going to happen. 

--the last non-white Miss Teen USA was crowned in 1999. So I don't know if the overarching issue is unfair judging when picking semi-finalists and finalists, or are there too few women of color in the Miss Teen USA pageant itself? 

What's more troubling to me is that in the past, the winner, Karlie Hay of Texas, posted a number of racist tweets using the N-word.  She posted a new tweet after winning and said that she regrets posting those tweets and at the time she was going through personal struggles but that she has grown as a person in the two years since the tweets went out. The pageant was satisfied with her apology and considered the issue closed. 

Really? Is that it? Even if I did believe that her life has been dramatically transformed, couldn't the pageant make a statement that it condemns racist or offensive behavior from its participants? Tell me that during Karlie's tenure as Miss Teen USA, she's going to volunteer with the Anti-Defamation League or another volunteer organization that fights bigotry in all forms. Something. Basically, the organization is saying that Karlie was a dumb kid who was going through personal struggles, so she shouldn't be held accountable for the racist things she tweeted for all the world to see. 

ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

I'm trying to understand what personal struggles have to do with intentionally using racially bigoted language? Not surprised her youth is used as an excuse (though, shockingly, Native American, Latino, and black youth don't usually receive the same benefit). 

Here's my thing - the world is a lot bigger for young people than before the rise of the Internet and social media.  And they inject themselves into online discussions with adult themes all.the.damn.time.  So while once upon a time, youth could be used to handwave certain behavior, I have to confess I'm a lot less sympathetic than I would be if the Internet and social media weren't around. 

P.S. Lisa Turtle was totally done wrong on Saved by the Bell. But I vaguely recall reading something about the show receiving negative fan mail about Zack and Lisa's kiss.  Not sure how true that was, or if it was just an excuse by the showrunners.  Ditto on Lisa being the prettiest, topanga.  This tangentially reminds me of the silly summer show Mistresses, where you have two gorgeous minority women who conveniently have questionable relationships while the white women get/got (relatively decent) guys who want commitment.   

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Princess Sparkle

Princess Sparkle

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

P.S. Lisa Turtle was totally done wrong on Saved by the Bell. But I vaguely recall reading something about the show receiving negative fan mail about Zack and Lisa's kiss.  Not sure how true that was, or if it was just an excuse by the showrunners.  Ditto on Lisa being the prettiest, topanga.  This tangentially reminds me of the silly summer show Mistresses, where you have two gorgeous minority women who conveniently have questionable relationships while the white women get/got (relatively decent) guys who want commitment.   

I remember hearing the same thing and honestly, I think it was a cop-out.  Because it's not like Saved By the Bell was filmed week by week, so unless the producers immediately got hate mail and edited on the fly, it doesn't explain why there was never any follow up on the kiss. 

However, Mark-Paul Gosselar probably agreed with us that Lisa was the prettiest, because he and Lark Vorhees did date for a few years in real life. 

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AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

Channing Dungey says The Bachelor needs a 'more diverse pool of candidates.'

Quote

Asked why the network, in addition to that long-term investment, could not just pluck some minority male from somewhere else in the pop-culture landscape to be the next Bachelor, Dungey agreed ABC could, but noted, “the show has been very much in cycle, where the first runner-up becomes the lead in the next cycle and it has worked very well for us,” because that person is a pre-sold commodity for the show’s loyal viewers. “What we’d like to do is widen the pool.”

Yes, because everyone knows that The Bachelor rules are sacred. *sigh*

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paulvdb

paulvdb

14 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Yeah the "hate mail" regarding Zack and Lisa was always just an excuse.  Even if the show did get hate mail they would of already have shot several episodes before that time, so that doesn't explain that there was no follow up. 

I don't know where that story came from, but the reality of television productions schedules means that you are right. They would have already filmed other episodes before they got any hate mail unless the hate mail came from studio or network executives who got advance copies of the episode.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

I dunno, the Bachelor is such a shit show in so many ways I honestly don't know if I'd want to see black & brown folks up in there.  it reminds me of an interview that Jonathan Franzen just had where the interviewer asked him if he'd ever consider writing a novel on race.  He said no because he had never been in love with a black woman.  To which I say, Please, Jonathan, just stay in your lane.  We are good with you writing what you are already writing (not that I read it).  But, you do you!  So I kinda am there with The Bachelor at this point.

But I do think Dungey's remarks are just a load of Malarkey.  You could literally pluck a POC from somewhere and create a new Bachelor.  That is how it was done in the early seasons.  Heck they had celebrities (Charlie O'Connell) and athletes and a frickin' European Prince.  This habit of bringing back a Bachelorette reject has only been in place in the in the last five or six years and that is not even half of the live of show.  They had one cycle where they had two bachelors at once competing.  So they could literally change up the format any way they wanted to to give some pep to the franchise.

My theory is that a black bachelor would by necessity require more than two black bachelorettes.  And that in turn will make it a 'black' show.  And even though ABC scores really well in diversity in their scripted shows, this is a reality romance show that appeals to a (I am betting) specific demographic that they are a little afraid to alienate with a too much melanin tipping point.

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BoogieBurns

BoogieBurns

Their Juan Pablo bachelor wasn't a reject from a previous season. It's a cop out, like always.

But, I agree with @Ohwell, there is too much pressure on a Bachelor of color. However, that same societal pressure doesn't really exist for a Bachelorette of color. She could pick a guy of any race for her final rose with much less push back from the audience than a guy.

So, TPTB need to load the next season with 15 female contestants of color, 10 white ones and a white bachelor. He has to,at least, let one WOC get to the top 4, that's all. We all know he'll propose to Becky. But next season, Top 4 Tiana is the Bachelorette and her options are maybe 5 white guys, 5 black, 5 asian, 5 hispanic, 5 who ever I'm missing. The Bachelor/ette would finally be integrated.

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Princess Sparkle

Princess Sparkle

(edited)
1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

Their Juan Pablo bachelor wasn't a reject from a previous season. It's a cop out, like always.

 

Not that this changes the point that much, but Juan Pablo was a reject from a previous season, he just wasn't a "final 2" reject - he was on Des's season. And yes, I am embarrassed I knew that without having to look it up.  

But I do agree with you that the show holding him up as "We have had a minority as a bachelor!" is a cop out. 

Edited by Princess Sparkle
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Raja

Raja

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I've said before that I think that a black bachelor would feel pressure to choose a black woman (not "Becky with the good hair" lol).  I do wonder, though, if Asian or Hispanic bachelors would feel the same pressure.     

Politically speaking a Latino since they are a multi-racial ethnic group probably not. And Asian bachelorette on the other hand would face the pressures that Black  males would 

jhlipton

jhlipton

18 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I dunno, the Bachelor is such a shit show in so many ways I honestly don't know if I'd want to see black & brown folks up in there. 

My theory is that a black bachelor would by necessity require more than two black bachelorettes.  And that in turn will make it a 'black' show.  And even though ABC scores really well in diversity in their scripted shows, this is a reality romance show that appeals to a (I am betting) specific demographic that they are a little afraid to alienate with a too much melanin tipping point.

They already have black and brown folks "up in there"; they just don't win or come in second.  The winning is the part they need to work on.

16 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

So, TPTB need to load the next season with 15 female contestants of color, 10 white ones and a white bachelor. He has to,at least, let one WOC get to the top 4, that's all. We all know he'll propose to Becky. But next season, Top 4 Tiana is the Bachelorette and her options are maybe 5 white guys, 5 black, 5 asian, 5 hispanic, 5 who ever I'm missing. The Bachelor/ette would finally be integrated.

I like this.

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ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

(edited)

As someone who has watched several seasons of the Bachelor franchise, I've no interest in seeing a non-white lead.  I often feel second-hand embarrassment for the minorities who manage to be cast, as they so obviously have ZERO chance. Well, that's not quite true - biracial, (insert Asian nationality) women seem to do well. The network and showrunners have made excuses for years, yet they've had plenty of opportunity to be diverse if they wanted to. In this trainwrecky context, I'm perfectly fine with whites being front and center. 

Plus, the audience for this franchise is very social-media active. Participants, leads in particular, are harshly judged.  There was plenty mocking of Juan Pablo's accent during his season, and he's white Hispanic.  Lawd, I cannot imagine what it would turn into with a visibly melanated lead. You'd have the normal, OTT criticism + bigotry + the folks who feel the lead should end up with someone of their own race/ethnicity.  I'd probably have to take a long-term social media break to avoid the foolishness. 

Edited by ribboninthesky1
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In2You

In2You

On 8/3/2016 at 10:57 PM, Princess Sparkle said:

I remember hearing the same thing and honestly, I think it was a cop-out.  Because it's not like Saved By the Bell was filmed week by week, so unless the producers immediately got hate mail and edited on the fly, it doesn't explain why there was never any follow up on the kiss. 

However, Mark-Paul Gosselar probably agreed with us that Lisa was the prettiest, because he and Lark Vorhees did date for a few years in real life. 

I hate when people bring that up to verify Zack and Lisa because all the cast dated each other except Dustin cuz no one wanted him. 

That being said I do agree the fan mail was a lame excuse because Zack and Lisa had like one kiss and that was it. They didn't have time for fan reaction. I did like the idea of them together especially after having watched them in the original show.

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Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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