S07.E09: Birthday In The Berks

[missy jo]

I cannot speak enough about the fact that they are not talking about her boyfriend.

 

 

I agree. It's fine if he doesn't want to be filmed (I wouldn't), but she's specifically saying in THs, to her therapist, and the other HWs that she "has a wall up," is "alone," and her only friends are those she's known for 20 years. Lies, all lies!

 

It's not so much that Bethenney's getting a good edit but that because apparently Andy was surprised by all the pushback she was getting in the first few episodes, there's a more concerted effort to malign Heather in these past two episodes. I forget who it was who said that a caller made a statement about it on WWHL earlier in the season and Andy seemed taken aback by the idea that not everyone was cheering for "The B is back."

 

 

It was me, among others, and it was so awesome to see Andy with *real* concern and shock instead of that faux concern that he usually shows on the reunions, LOL.

 

So what's interesting to me about claims of Heather always trying to boss/smother/control Bethenny is that really all it seemed to take was a well-placed TH from Bethenny in last week's episode about the custody conversation (as well her meltdown in CB2) to shift the narrative. That was episode eight. In this episode is where Bethenny had another meltdown. Suddenly, it's a seasons-long thing where Heather has been trying to control Bethenny? And folks want to dismiss editing out of hand?

 

 

I'm always aware of possible editing and production shenanigans, but now after this retcon-ing of Beth after the viewer comment on WWHL, and also Dorinda saying she's been called back to film new THs, I'm practically watching *just* to see where they may have edited things out of context. It takes away from just being able to sit back and enjoy the show.

 

It was nice that B came but I thought it was ridiculous that she was greeted as if she was the guest of honor and as if she was gifting everyone with her presence. I am not saying that is necessarily B's fault but this does go to Carol's point that the other HW's do sort of show her undue reverence and let her get away with things.

 

 

I didn't like her showing up unannounced, like she wanted a banner (TM Aviva). She told Dorinda she couldn't come, but then when arranging her pillows, blankets and princess videos, didn't even let Dorinda know to plan for an additional guest at her fin-fished catered dinner - which BTW, could have avoided the whole mess that ensued!

Edited June 5, 2015 by missy jo

[Rahul]

I am sorry, this criticism is a pet peeve of mine. Is there a rulebook of how each and every ethnicity must speak? If there is, I want to meet who made them because I have a few choice words for them.

 

Heather needs her own version of "Why I Talk White" but replace "White" with Black or Spanish according to your logic.

 

There is no requirement of how one speaks based on the shade of their skin. It is true for Ernestine Johnson AND for Heather Thompson. We should all speak however we want to speak without criticism for stepping outside the box society places us in. UGH!

 

I'm not the speech police. Heather is free to speak however she chooses. However, I know I am not the only one annoyed by her urban cultural appropriation given that she was not raised in an environment where that lingo was prevalent. It does not come across as an organic means of expression but rather a put on persona to differentiate herself from the other women. Her foul language doesn't bother me as much as all the hollas and mamas do.

[LotusFlower]

No doubt Bethenny's level of editorial control is unprecedented in Housewifeland. I think it shows just how desperate they were to amp up the show and improve its ratings.

I wonder if Andy can be objective enough to see what didn't work (for next year?). Because he clearly loves everything about her, and thought she would resonate and entertain viewers in her return. Will he blame the others, and say it wasn't a good mix?

[motorcitymom65]

I agree. It's fine if he doesn't want to be filmed (I wouldn't), but she's specifically saying in THs, to her therapist, and the other HWs that she "has a wall up," is "alone," and her only friends are those she's known for 20 years. Lies, all lies!

 

 

 

Yea, I don't know why this irritates me so much, but it does. I get that I'm watching a somewhat scripted, heavily edited TV show, but as my good friend always says: Don't piss down my neck and try to tell me it's rain. A huge part of her life was being hidden from us to create this specific story for her. I'm not sure how much I can blame her, because I might do the same thing. I am irritated with Bravo for letting it happen. It appears the others are in on it to as well.  Maybe it bothers some of them.  Here is a clip from the next episode. Ramona is having a party and talking about bringing some single guys.  Carole says: "So who are these guys that you're bringing for Bethenny and Me?"  Strange thing to say about someone you know has a serious boyfriend. 

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/episode-710/videos?clip=2870219

 

This is so irritating because of what Andy was saying about the exact same time about Vicki over on the OC. She had told a reporter that Andy threatened to demote her if she didn't film with Brooks. Andy confirmed it, which is extremely unlike him. He said: 

 

“That’s true! We did!” Andy reveals. “You know why? She’s on a reality show about her life! And he was in her life! So we said, ‘You have to show what’s happening in your life! If you’re dating this guy, you can’t keep it hidden from everybody.'”

 

http://allthingsrh.com/andy-cohen-reveals-bravo-threatened-fire-vicki-gunvalson-didnt-film-brooks-ayers/

 

It's such a strange thing for Andy to say. The episode above was filmed in December. This is what Beth was doing in December. At that point, she had been dating this guy for a year, and had said earlier that she waited to introduce him to Bryn until she knew it was serious. Seems like something you would include on your REALITY TV SHOW. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2890613/Bethenny-Frankel-shows-ribs-Miami-vacation-boyfriend-Michael-Cerussi-daughter-Bryn.html

[AnnA]

Isn't it possible that her boyfriend wanted or insisted on being excluded from the RHONY?

 

I've been watching these shows for a while now and I wouldn't want to be part of that circus.

[LotusFlower]

I feel your pain, MotorCityMom! You're absolutely right- total double standard for Bethenny.

What I want to know is how the other Housewives feel about it. The Vicki G. example is a great one, but what about Ramona, when she famously asked Andy about his love life, and he answered: "I'll tell you when I decide to share my life on a reality show!" So how does Ramona feel about Bethenny getting a pass on sharing this aspect of her life? I imagine she cares very much, but can't do anything about it.

Isn't it possible that her boyfriend wanted or insisted on being excluded from the RHONY?

I think it's possible. But Bethenny hasn't even mentioned his existence in her life. That's why it feels kind of fraudulent or phony.

[BluishGreen]

And you know what? It makes me like Heather more.

 

Only on  Real housewife show would trying to befriend a coworker be viewed as a negative trait.

 

That said, Heather is a grown up with plenty of friends of her own. She doesn't need Bethenny's stinking friendship. She should be as cordial as is strictly necessary to film with her. The end.

 

See, I'm not sure she was trying to "befriend" Bethenny. Trust me, I have no dog in this fight, but this tension between Heather and Bethenny begins and ends for me with Heather trying to force a friendship before there is any interest or connection between them.  No offense to Bethenny, but she is like some high strung, skittish terrier- type creature and Heather keeps looming over her, insisting "I gonna pet you and pet you and pet you, even if you don't want me to." Bethenny keeps baring her teeth and growling, but Heather just keeps coming.  And then cries when she gets bit.

 

This really became clear to me with the sushi dinner/nickname conversation. In my memory, it went something like this:  Heather announces that she is going to call Bethenny "Beth".  Bethenny says she doesn't want to be called "Beth" and Heather says "Well, then I'll call you "B".  Bethenny's comment (and my thought) was why can't you just call her by her actual name?  You barely know her, so what is with the mandated "just between us" nickname? 

 

Way back in the age of the dinosaurs, I actually did some research on nicknaming.  It is, as we all know, an affectionate gesture between people who already have a close relationship.  It is also sometimes used a means of control and can bespeak a deliberate assertion of authority over another person. Think about it-- you present yourself to the world with one name, and that name is a part of your identity.  By nicknaming you, the other person is essentially "picking" a different name for you-- sometimes, or even most times, it is an act of affection and a way to bond-- a demonstration that you and I have a special kind of intimacy.  The social scientists tell us, however, that nicknaming isn't always so benign.  Sometimes it is a very subtle act of aggression and control by one person over another-- as in, I don't care what your name is, I'm re-naming you with a name that maybe you don't even like, but I am putting on you.

 

In the Bethenny - Heather dispute, I think it was the latter. Heather was asserting a friendship and a special relationship with Bethenny, whether it was true or not, and even if Bethenny didn't want it.

 

I think Heather was thinking that Bethenny was going to get ALOT of screen time and attention, and would  be at the center of the big stories this season  and Heather was pushing her way into the inside track. Either that, or Heather is so self involved and egotistical that she can't believe someone doesn't want her attention.

Edited June 5, 2015 by BluishGreen

[motorcitymom65]

Isn't it possible that her boyfriend wanted or insisted on being excluded from the RHONY?

 

I've been watching these shows for a while now and I wouldn't want to be part of that circus.

I completely agree with you. I get if he wants no part of the show. Beth has said publicly that she would never again date anyone who would agree to be on a reality show because of her past experience with Jason. He doesn't have to be on, however, for her to acknowledge that he is in her life or talk about their relationship on her reality TV show that is suppose to be about her life and what is going on at the time. It wasn't a secret. He was photographed with her for over a year all the time. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[maggiemae]

Heather was not even sitting particularly close to Bethenny at the table.......yet BF was her focus.

 

The fish discussion was between Dorinda and Bethenny (not Heather). Very rude, imo, for Heather to involve herself.....and especially since there were strangers at the table as well. No way one can talk as a whole to a table that long. 

 

Someone mentioned there was no food porn of the dinner......I surmise it was because there was plenty of other things one could eat.

 

I would personally croak if served sushi, lol. And furious it was announced to the table in general I had a "private" conversation with the hostess....even with John at the end of the table that heard.

Heather was several people away from Dorinda on that side and imo it was none of her business.

Edited June 5, 2015 by maggiemae

[Aunt Kiki]

I completely agree with you. I get if he wants no part of the show. Beth has said publicly that she would never again date anyone who would agree to be on a reality show because of her past experience with Jason. He doesn't have to be on, however, for her to acknowledge that he is in her life or talk about their relationship on her reality TV show that is suppose to be about her life and what is going on at the time. It wasn't a secret. He was photographed with her for over a year all the time. 

Once again I can't confirm it but I thought I read an item in the NY Daily News before they broke up that her boyfriend wanted to be in on filming and was pushing for camera time - kind of a fameho.  Tried to Google old DN items but was having no luck.  If it was true, there was trouble in Paradise long before they officially broke up.

[Rhetorica]

No doubt Bethenny's level of editorial control is unprecedented in Housewifeland. I think it shows just how desperate they were to amp up the show and improve its ratings.

I wonder if Andy can be objective enough to see what didn't work (for next year?). Because he clearly loves everything about her, and thought she would resonate and entertain viewers in her return. Will he blame the others, and say it wasn't a good mix?

I'm just curious why you think she has editorial control. She certainly isn't a joy to watch this season. She appears to be hanging on by a thread. Not the Bethenny of old who was voice of the Greek Chorus. That, at least, was entertaining.

[seasick]

Heather is a dunderhead. Can't vouch for her motives in every case but I think most of us agree she is thick socially.

 

I do notice this trait in many people who are successful in sales. It's a numbers game so what I find to be pushy, persistent, intrusive, annoying , over-assuming etc  does eventually work for them. They seem shameless--but more power to them when they win the set of steak knives.  However it doesn't translate well socially and that's what I see with Heather. 

 

I'm not sure if I understand the thread about appropriating ethnic speech (?) I couldn't find the beginning of that thread. Is it that because she's upper middle class middle age white that she shouldn't say street slang? (Holla and 'hood"? )  I will agree that it's cringeworthy because she sounds silly, but I can't agree that there is some criteria to meet that allows you to use that slang. 

 

I'm a white woman raised in the white-collar suburbs from a white-collar family.. However my workplace was very diverse and blue collar and so was I.  Most of my co-workers were younger than me. I would feel foolish seriously saying "holla" or "my hood""  my homies" or 'Yo dog'.  However!  if I got annoyed with them I would use their expressions to them in my best, most white, suburban middle-aged no rhythm no accent tone..Were they offended?   Mortified was more like it.  They could no longer stomach using them after thinking that these expressions had seeped into that world. (i think the middle-age was the hardest part to handle)   Sigh... It was cruel..I know.. I have also ruined many obnoxious songs for teens in the family by singing gleefully along and 'dancing".   I used these techniques only in the most desperate times.

 

i was glad to see B back on the show although I rip her.  I think I was hoping she would be the one who echoed my own thoughts on the ladies. (is that what you mean by Greek chorus? )  She is extremely bright and the most quick-witted person since Robin Williams or more.  She's just too mean and bitter this year, so she doesn't escape the bulls-eye.  I admit I'm having more fun on the boards because of her tho.   Thanks B.!

 

[Mozelle]

I loved Bethenny the first several seasons.  I think she's brilliant and funny.  But her constantly being the victim gets old.

I mean, that's pretty much my take on it. If there are doubts, one only need go back into the Bethenny divorce thread before this season started and see how much of a fan I was. Bethenny's losing me this season, though. I'll still defend where it concerns what she's going through with Jason (or the painting of Jason as some man who was duped or whatever), but all this other stuff? I can't get on board.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Mozelle

[breezy424]

Sorry, but no.  Bethenny very politely informed her hostess, who then let it go.  It was only Heather -- NOT the hostess; NOT the homeowner; NOT Bethenny's nanny -- who couldn't let it go and kept escalating until it became the main focus of the evening.  You can spin this however you want, but Bethenny was not in the wrong here and Heather was.  Simple as that.

Actually, it Dorinda just didn't let it go.  She told Beth she had hummus in the fridge.  John said he would go talk to the chef.  Heather suggested the meatballs.  Look, I think Heather probably should have not said anything given that she's dealing with 'Bethenny' but it is what it is.  It wasn't a case of 'only' Heather trying to make Beth happy. 

[LotusFlower]

I'm just curious why you think she has editorial control. She certainly isn't a joy to watch this season. She appears to be hanging on by a thread. Not the Bethenny of old who was voice of the Greek Chorus. That, at least, was entertaining.

Only in the sense that she was able to negotiate things in her contract that other HW's can't, like tons of Skinnygirl product placement, and getting permission to make her boyfriend off-limits (in a different way than when kids aren't filmed). There's also speculation that they're editing and adding scenes to fix her pretty unlikeable persona so far, and she presumably has a hand in that, but again, that's speculative.

[SFoster21]

For me, the show is the show and the rest doesn't matter. I don't deal with gossip sites, twitter, whatever. The show is a work of art (yes, I said it!) that stands on its own. There is text and subtext. Uber-text and ur-text are unimportant as far as I am concerned.

Ratings, salaries, who keeps an "apple" is not the point. There is so much richness in behavior and lifestyle to discuss.

If one feels a producer is "Satan" (really? even for hyperbole, this is going too far), why enrich him by watching?

I want to see these people make what connections, mistakes, triumphs or falls they make within the text. Because the text has a story to tell that someone thought was a valid and entertaining story. If it bores or irritates, I vote with my remote. It's not my show, not my vision, not mine to rearrange. So I go with it or I don't. Just my humble o.

[AnnA]

I feel your pain, MotorCityMom! You're absolutely right- total double standard for Bethenny.

What I want to know is how the other Housewives feel about it. The Vicki G. example is a great one, but what about Ramona, when she famously asked Andy about his love life, and he answered: "I'll tell you when I decide to share my life on a reality show!" So how does Ramona feel about Bethenny getting a pass on sharing this aspect of her life? I imagine she cares very much, but can't do anything about it.

I think it's possible. But Bethenny hasn't even mentioned his existence in her life. That's why it feels kind of fraudulent or phony.

 

So much of what we see of the HWs is fraudulent and phony and yet I still watch.

 

I completely agree with you. I get if he wants no part of the show. Beth has said publicly that she would never again date anyone who would agree to be on a reality show because of her past experience with Jason. He doesn't have to be on, however, for her to acknowledge that he is in her life or talk about their relationship on her reality TV show that is suppose to be about her life and what is going on at the time. It wasn't a secret. He was photographed with her for over a year all the time. 

 

Bravo and Andy wanted Bethenny back so I'm sure her contract was tailored to her liking.  The massive Skinny Girl product placement is another example.

[missy jo]

Isn't it possible that her boyfriend wanted or insisted on being excluded from the RHONY?

 

I've been watching these shows for a while now and I wouldn't want to be part of that circus.

 

 

For sure, and same here! The issue is that she's pretending to be "alone" (her direct quote) and not in a relationship at all.

 

I don't think that Beth necessarily has *editorial* control, although she most likely negotiated the product placement, etc., but I do think production and editing is trying to portray her a certain way for the viewers, and has adjusted that portrayal when it didn't go over well in the first few episodes.

Edited June 5, 2015 by missy jo

[anonymiss]

On the contrary, I think Bethenny makes her a little nervous, like when she showed up unexpectedly, and Heather approached her and said "congratulations...oops, I mean, that was so nice of you to come!" I think she wants to be friends with her, but because it's not working, it's throwing her off.

I took that "Congratulations!" and "that was SO nice of you to come" differently. It seemed like a (perhaps warranted) passive aggressive jab at Bethenny's come-and-go-as-she-pleases attitude they already voiced their displeasure about.

[bravofan27]

I thought Bethenny sold her Skinny Girl Brand (the people that own it pay her to represent) and went to be a TV show host. Her talk show didn't last, so now, without her brand in her control and no TV show, she went back to the Housewives. If she was still doing her talk show she wouldn't have returned. I think she is sort of starting over and I think she is also really devastated that her talk show was cancelled. She knows she works on the Housewives so it's safe, and it's money.

 

(It was such a terrible show though)

 

Her bf broke up with her. Plus, she might not have wanted him on the show because of the custody stuff with her daughter. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by bravofan27

[breezy424]

She's not making that stuff up. All of that is what's going on in her life right now, so what else is she supposed to be presenting?  Scrapbooks of happier times?  And not everyone is receiving her badly.  I understood exactly what she meant about her apartment; it's been discussed here before.  There are just some people who don't like her so won't like anything she says or does.  Nothing she can do about it.

Actually, she is.  She was not homeless.  We got to view the home she owns in the Hamptons.  She was not alone.  She had a boyfriend for over a year and has a daughter.  In one of her blogs, she claimed to be an orphan. 

 

The debatable:  She was going through 'hell' with her divorce.  Then what would her child dying or having a serious condition be?  I really liked Beth her prior three seasons on RHNY.  She was probably my favorite housewife.  But then game BGM and BEA.  The real Beth came through.  And now she is playing the victim.  She needs to make a gratitude list every day. 

 

And yes, she can do a lot about her life.  First by changing her attitude and realize all the great things she has.  But that's not Beth. 

[Mountainair]

Such great points mentioned here and to extrapolate on them:

Sushi for a dinner party? Never in my house. I love Sushi but it's such an acquired, allergy ridden main course that I would never chance it.

I've never cared one way or another for Heather but the whole getting up from the table and trying to lead Beth away lost me and I really, really dislike Beth.

I myself have a four letter name that doesn't really need a nickname but my dad affectionately calls me by a two letter moniker, as does my husband. I've known my dad for 31 years and my husband for 15 so it feels very loving but when someone I rarely know attempts to shorten my name I get peeved. You don't know me like that! In real life I would refer to Beth as her whole name but honestly, with auto correct and my cracked all to hell iPad screen, she's not worth all the effort.

[BeachyMum]

I watched the show again today and although I'm not 100% sure I did not get the impression B and Sonja were mocking Ramona's date. I think they were in the own little happy drunk world. Also Heather scolding them and then saying she was only joking......there wasn't an iota of joking vibe coming from her.

Heather took ownership for her behavior that night, yet Bethenny never has.  If you re-watch with the closed captions on you will see everything B said. B laughing AT(not with) another guest(Ramona's Date)  is just rude and very mean girl mentality.  In most episodes Beth just shows up and starts taking the piss out of everyone. She is not funny.JMO

Edited June 5, 2015 by BeachyMum

[LotusFlower]

I thought Bethenny sold her Skinny Girl Brand (the people that own it pay her to represent) and went to be a TV show host. Her talk show didn't last, so now, without her brand in her control and no TV show, she went back to the Housewives.

She only sold the liquor end of the business to Jim Beam. The rest of the Skinnygirl brand is still hers.

[motorcitymom65]

Heather took ownership for her behavior that night, yet Bethenny never has.  If you re-watch with the closed captions on you will see everything B said. B laughing AT(not with) another guest(Ramona's Date)  is just rude and very mean girl mentality.  In most episodes Beth just shows up and starts taking the piss out of everyone. She is not funny.JMO

I liked the fact that Heather owned the fact that she was harsh at dinner in her blog.  She retweeted it as well. 

[breezy424]

On the discussion as to why Beth came back to RHNY - I don't think that it was her original plan.  She came to Andy (and he made that clear on their WWHL interview) to pitch doing her own show again, aka Bethenny Starting Over.  They compromised on her doing a season of RHNY  - thus that is why there are eight housewives.  Beth was a one season deal and then her own show. 

 

Why did Beth want to do another reality show?  Cause she is a famewhore and wanted the opportunity to repair her image and have a place to promote her products.  Beth has said in earlier interviews that this is the reason why she did RHNY in the first place.  It worked out well.   This is also why we see Sknnygirl products ad nauseum.  Bravo agreed to this because the RHNY ratings were in the dumpster and thought this would give the franchise the jump it needed.  It didn't work. 

 

I have no doubt that Beth loves her daughter and there was also an agreement that she didn't have to film when she had Bryn.  The reality was when it came to actual filming, this wasn't working out so well.  And Beth as well as production picked up on this - plus the other housewives.  Of course, at the time, it seems everyone was thinking that Beth was going to be the ratings boost.  And add to that the resentment on some of the other housewives' part.

 

In the end, it's been a disaster.  A good chunk of viewers don't care about Bethenny Frankel anymore and they've tired of the 'victim' role Beth plays.  Beth was much more likable as the struggling woman trying to be successful.  The successful Beth is snotty and biting.  And it's just plain hard to feel for someone who is going through something that so many others have gone through - divorce, custody, crappy childhoods - but doesn't have any real appreciation for all she does have.  The connection has been lost for many. 

[pbutler111]

Actually, she is.  She was not homeless.  We got to view the home she owns in the Hamptons.  She was not alone.  She had a boyfriend for over a year and has a daughter.  In one of her blogs, she claimed to be an orphan. 

 

The debatable:  She was going through 'hell' with her divorce.  Then what would her child dying or having a serious condition be?  I really liked Beth her prior three seasons on RHNY.  She was probably my favorite housewife.  But then game BGM and BEA.  The real Beth came through.  And now she is playing the victim.  She needs to make a gratitude list every day. 

 

And yes, she can do a lot about her life.  First by changing her attitude and realize all the great things she has.  But that's not Beth. 

She has expressed her gratitude for the things she has many, many, MANY times.  But people who don't like her don't hear that.  Instead they take comments that she makes either in jest or figuratively (she's never actually claimed to be homeless, nor has she claimed to be an actual orphan) and respond to them as though she said those things in a serious and literal context.  It's unfortunate that so many people feel so comfortable being so uncaring about the real-life problems of real-life people just because they also happen to be distanced by a television screen.  Your distance, and her money, don't make her problems any less real or painful.

[motorcitymom65]

She has expressed her gratitude for the things she has many, many, MANY times.  But people who don't like her don't hear that.  Instead they take comments that she makes either in jest or figuratively (she's never actually claimed to be homeless, nor has she claimed to be an actual orphan) and respond to them as though she said those things in a serious and literal context.  It's unfortunate that so many people feel so comfortable being so uncaring about the real-life problems of real-life people just because they also happen to be distanced by a television screen.  Your distance, and her money, don't make her problems any less real or painful.

But don't you think that if Beth were behaving differently that she would get more empathy? I don't think that people are uncaring because they are distanced from her, or have less empathy because she is rich. Honestly, the "homeless" comment got under the skin of some people, but I don't think it would be discussed very much at this point if her behavior was different. Honestly, I was still firmly on her side at that time because I was so happy she was back. I thought it was strange, but it didn't particularly irritate me. I completely got what she was saying. It has been her behavior since that irritates. And I do feel empathy for her in her custody deal. Do I have as much empathy for her in this as I do with Heather and the issues she has with her son? No way in hell is it even close IMO, but that doesn't mean I don't feel for what she is going through. If she weren't a raging bitch, she would have had me in tears a couple of times. 

[pbutler111]

But don't you think that if Beth were behaving differently that she would get more empathy? I don't think that people are uncaring because they are distanced from her, or have less empathy because she is rich. Honestly, the "homeless" comment got under the skin of some people, but I don't think it would be discussed very much at this point if her behavior was different. Honestly, I was still firmly on her side at that time because I was so happy she was back. I thought it was strange, but it didn't particularly irritate me. I completely got what she was saying. It has been her behavior since that irritates. And I do feel empathy for her in her custody deal. Do I have as much empathy for her in this as I do with Heather and the issues she has with her son? No way in hell is it even close IMO, but that doesn't mean I don't feel for what she is going through. If she weren't a raging bitch, she would have had me in tears a couple of times. 

You see a raging bitch, I see a woman going through a really difficult time.  And, yes, Heather has a child with health problems. But when Heather dredged up a personal problem she could present to illustrate that people other than Bethenny had extremely difficult and deeply emotional challenges in their life, the first thing she landed on was not her son's health challenges, but the fact that her nanny had just left her.  So, yeah, between Heather's deep pain over the loss of her nanny, and Bethenny's torment over losing her marriage and a good chunk of time with her child, I'm going to put my sympathy Bethenny's way.

[Trooper York]

You know Luann dressed up like Lana Turner at that dinner but I think Bethenny is going to recreate her life.

 

I hope she doesn't start dating Johnny Stompanato. Just sayn'

[missy jo]

But don't you think that if Beth were behaving differently that she would get more empathy?

 

 

She would from me. I would have an entirely different take on her.

[BlackMamba]

Yeah but I think that's true of a number of those ladies. Tre and Nene come to mind. Loony fans gonna loony fan no matter what the object of their affection. The Reality people probably get more of that because people can think of them as 'real' and so more touchable than movie stars or whatever. But that level of fandom is not what I was talking about earlier. In any case we can agree to disagree like grown-ups which is great! If we were on the show we would feel duty-bound to take this discussion and turn it into a full-blown screamerama in the name of ratings and drama!

Um dont forget Lisa V. While I do like her most of Twitter and R Tea bowdowns to her feet.

[breezy424]

She has expressed her gratitude for the things she has many, many, MANY times. But people who don't like her don't hear that. Instead they take comments that she makes either in jest or figuratively (she's never actually claimed to be homeless, nor has she claimed to be an actual orphan) and respond to them as though she said those things in a serious and literal context. It's unfortunate that so many people feel so comfortable being so uncaring about the real-life problems of real-life people just because they also happen to be distanced by a television screen. Your distance, and her money, don't make her problems any less real or painful.

From Beth's blog: I'm an only child and essentially an orphan, so there is no one I can turn or talk to that can acknowledge what I remember to be true.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/bethenny-frankel/bethenny-i-think-that-people-do

Bethenny said she was the richest homeless person in NY on the first episode of the season which she got a lot of flack for.

[BlackMamba]

I have to give Bethenny props for one thing. She immediately said she didn't want a meatball. She wouldn't touch a meatball. I mean can't you just seen it now.

Bethenny: "I would love to eat a meatball."

John: "Hey Baby!"

[maggiemae]

Perhaps it was about 8 years ago when people in their 50's and 60's said they were "orphans" because they had lost both their parents.

 

That fad did not last long since it was so stupid.

 

And didn't Bethenny have a long history (although in boarding schools) with her mother married for a long time to her stepdad?

[bravofan27]

I was sad that the one time Bethenny seemed to be having some fun (talking to her wine bottles and laughing with Sonja) she got yelled at. It was like the ONLY time she was happy and it lasted a minute. And Heather was asking the date guy super boring questions and wanted to be in charge of the whole table by leading the questioning session. I don't blame Bethenny and Sonja for being a little bored and it's not school. Heather isn't the teacher and they don't have to all be quiet while she talks. I didn't understand why Heather started yelling at her (and why not Sonja since she was being silly too).

 

Heather and Carole seem to click well, and same with Heather and Kristin, Heather should focus on those relationships. 

[straightshooter]

imo Heather sniffed out Bethenny for alpha dog competition on day one.

 

ABSOLUTELY.  This is at the heart of EVERYTHING.  She's tried several different approaches to secure herself a position as Queen Bee of the crew.   If she was actually concerned with being friends with Bethenny, I don't believe she would have given her hell for being late getting to the limo for the AC trip, nor would she have appointed herself the "Hurt Feelings Police" by bringing up Kristen's lack of invite to Bethenny's birthday party.  It's all been about power and control, and now it seems to have developed into frustration, feeling offended and possibly even starting to feel hurt by the fact that she has not yet been able to force Bethenny into liking her.  I get the feeling that she has just now started to feel rejected, although finding out she was a "plus one" the night of the birthday party was really the moment when IT WAS ON! 

 

A big contributor, of course, is the fact that this couldn't be more inopportune timing for Bethenny to be filming while she is so stressed and vulnerable, KNOWING the situations into which they would be purposely thrown for the fireworks potential.  She is like a loaded gun, and the pressure is building.  Some pretty big stuff is now being dredged up with the therapist in addition to the divorce and custody issues and the responsibility of running a business while money keeps flying out of her bank account thanks to legal fees.   For Heather to compare even one facet of what Bethenny is dealing with to the nanny loss was a total joke.  She either is truly ignorant or just has a hell of a lot more nerve than I realized.  

 

I don't care how long it's been since the split, or how well she makes/made out in the divorce deal, IT SUCKS FOR A MOTHER TO BE APART FROM HER CHILD FOR 50% OF THE TIME.  It's unnatural and gut-wrenching even in the most amicable of situations.   If I were Bethenny, I would have already gone off the deep end and told every single one of them who commented on her not "putting forth an effort" to go to hell.  Those were the lowest blows, the most selfish comments I've heard on this show, and it highlighted the out-of-whack priorities of the other women.  I don't care how big of an event is going on, when I have my child, every single second from the time I pick her up to the time I drop her off is about my time with her - for my sake just as much as hers.  I wouldn't feel I was missing out by not going after she's in bed, either.  If she wakes up in the middle of the night not feeling well, I want to be the one there to take care of her.  Mom taking off late at night is not something I'd want my daughter getting used to.  Mom can go out and party like a wild woman when the little one is with Dad.   Her choice to show up to an important event such as Dorinda's birthday showed that she's willing, but to be MIA from some lame boxing match should not have elicited the comments made by those ding-dongs.   I'm glad she has her head on straight there. 

 

I never thought I'd have Ramoaner in my top 3, but she's climbed up the ranks quite a bit this season.  That says a lot about the wackiness we've seen so far.   

 

One last thing - I absolutely love Dorinda.  She's in a class of her own and it's encouraging to see a "housewife" who truly is real, and whose values are in check.   I just hope the other nuts don't run her off. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by straightshooter

[SCS]

 

A big contributor, of course, is the fact that this couldn't be more inopportune timing for Bethenny to be filming while she is so stressed and vulnerable, KNOWING the situations into which they would be purposely thrown for the fireworks potential.  She is like a loaded gun, and the pressure is building.  Some pretty big stuff is now being dredged up with the therapist in addition to the divorce and custody issues and the responsibility of running a business while money keeps flying out of her bank account thanks to legal fees.   For Heather to compare even one facet of what Bethenny is dealing with to the nanny loss was a total joke.  She either is truly ignorant or just has a hell of a lot more nerve than I realized.  

 

I don't care how long it's been since the split, or how well she makes/made out in the divorce deal, IT SUCKS FOR A MOTHER TO BE APART FROM HER CHILD FOR 50% OF THE TIME.  It's unnatural and gut-wrenching even in the most amicable of situations.   If I were Bethenny, I would have already gone off the deep end and told every single one of them who commented on her not "putting forth an effort" to go to hell.  Those were the lowest blows, the most selfish comments I've heard on this show, and it highlighted the out-of-whack priorities of the other women.  I don't care how big of an event is going on, when I have my child, every single second from the time I pick her up to the time I drop her off is about my time with her - for my sake just as much as hers.  I wouldn't feel I was missing out by not going after she's in bed, either.  If she wakes up in the middle of the night not feeling well, I want to be the one there to take care of her.  Mom taking off late at night is not something I'd want my daughter getting used to.  Mom can go out and party like a wild woman when the little one is with Dad.   Her choice to show up to an important event such as Dorinda's birthday showed that she's willing, but to be MIA from some lame boxing match should not have elicited the comments made by those ding-dongs.   I'm glad she has her head on straight there. 

Beth is a reality show vet -- she fully knows what is expected and how these shows play out. She chose to sign the contract to return to the HWs. Methinks the old girl will be fine.

[maggiemae]

Nevertheless women (and I am one) should not believe they are the sole custodians of their children after a divorce.

 

Seems to me they do need to adapt to the court ordered decisions to make it easier for the child/ren and do have opportunities to revisit the order in time.

 

The focus needs to be on the kid/s and their growing up in non-drama homes. 

 

Of course.....if there is not a very valid reason to not do so.....and I don't see one here.

[LotusFlower]

I don't care how big of an event is going on, when I have my child, every single second from the time I pick her up to the time I drop her off is about my time with her - for my sake just as much as hers. I wouldn't feel I was missing out by not going after she's in bed, either. If she wakes up in the middle of the night not feeling well, I want to be the one there to take care of her. Mom taking off late at night is not something I'd want my daughter getting used to.

Beth is a reality show vet -- she fully knows what is expected and how these shows play out. She chose to sign the contract to return to the HWs. Methinks the old girl will be fine.

Exactly. And don't forget the big paycheck she's collecting, too. It's a job. Bethenny isn't the first mother on the planet that has to sometimes put a work commitment ahead of her kid.

[film noire]

You know Luann dressed up like Lana Turner at that dinner but I think Bethenny is going to recreate her life.

 

I hope she doesn't start dating Johnny Stompanato. Just sayn'

Dropping a ref to a glory-days-of- Hollywood scandal in a howife thread? I love you, noble Trooper!

Edited June 5, 2015 by film noire

[JakeyJokes]

 

Real empathy is sometimes not insisting that it will be okay but acknowledging that it is not.

That quote above is from Sheryl Sandberg, COO of Facebook and author of the much-debated "Lean In", who wrote this a few days ago regarding the one-month markation of losing her husband (sheloshm in Judaism).

 

In a weird way, I revisited this and thinking of the brief convo between Carole and Dorinda about how tragedies are different than others. Ramona was trying to empathize and saying "We are all strong!!" and Dorinda (and, quietly, Carole) were saying that "Yeah, sure, but death is a different things."

 

It was a quiet and fast moment, but it was so NUANCED, in a way that I hold RHONYC to a positively higher regard than the other shows. 

[Lucelu]

If the highest priority is having unfettered access to your child, it seems to me... that you figure out a way to stay married and happy with their father. You invest in the relationship, not the reality show. If there is a gag order on the divorce, it is probably because of her-- bad mouthing Jason in the media. If you do a google search on why Bethenny filed for divorce... all you see is links to things Bethenny said about Jason. She sent him a letter telling him she was filing for divorce, not even a face to face discussion? And then filed for sole custody. I don't understand this whining about her privacy on reality TV. She has really had the bull horn on this since day 1. Whatever her history, this lady really has become a very toxic person who has become successful in business despite her poor social skills. Just imagine having to be this person's waitress... UGH.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

And let's not forget the boyfriend she had during this time. They were photographed together all the time, and in one article I read, Beth mentioned she hadn't yet introduced him to Bryn because she wanted to wait. Perhaps she only spent time with him when Jason had Bryn, but I doubt that. She no doubt had the nanny watch her after bedtime from time to time at night while she went out. Eventually there were pictures of him out with Beth and Bryn, and they were together for something like 18 months. They broke up right before filming ended, so it seemed to be pretty serious.

I wonder if this bothered anyone during filming? They had all met him because he was off camera during her birthday dinner which was early in the season. She is doing this thing where she acts like she is so broken and unhappy, and clinging to her daughter, all the while having a very public romance where she looks to be extremely happy and in love. I cannot help but think that the narrative of Beth out on the town with her love interest didn't fit with the look they were trying to portray of Beth not trusting people and being so sad.

THIS pisses me off to no end (bethenny not the post haha) ! Bethennys whole tag line is (paraphrasing) I am not a housewife but I **am** real... What the frick man! She has a boyfriend the whole time we never hear about who she broke up with during filming yah that's real... Bravo really screwed this up. I get the real ness of reality TV can be distorted but they're packaging Bethenny as real and her story is more fiction than I've ever heard of. Big turn off Andy and Bravo.

[Midnight Cheese]

ABSOLUTELY.  This is at the heart of EVERYTHING.  She's tried several different approaches to secure herself a position as Queen Bee of the crew.   If she was actually concerned with being friends with Bethenny, I don't believe she would have given her hell for being late getting to the limo for the AC trip, nor would she have appointed herself the "Hurt Feelings Police" by bringing up Kristen's lack of invite to Bethenny's birthday party.  It's all been about power and control, and now it seems to have developed into frustration, feeling offended and possibly even starting to feel hurt by the fact that she has not yet been able to force Bethenny into liking her.  I get the feeling that she has just now started to feel rejected, although finding out she was a "plus one" the night of the birthday party was really the moment when IT WAS ON! 

 

A big contributor, of course, is the fact that this couldn't be more inopportune timing for Bethenny to be filming while she is so stressed and vulnerable, KNOWING the situations into which they would be purposely thrown for the fireworks potential.  She is like a loaded gun, and the pressure is building.  Some pretty big stuff is now being dredged up with the therapist in addition to the divorce and custody issues and the responsibility of running a business while money keeps flying out of her bank account thanks to legal fees.   For Heather to compare even one facet of what Bethenny is dealing with to the nanny loss was a total joke.  She either is truly ignorant or just has a hell of a lot more nerve than I realized.  

 

I don't care how long it's been since the split, or how well she makes/made out in the divorce deal, IT SUCKS FOR A MOTHER TO BE APART FROM HER CHILD FOR 50% OF THE TIME.  It's unnatural and gut-wrenching even in the most amicable of situations.   If I were Bethenny, I would have already gone off the deep end and told every single one of them who commented on her not "putting forth an effort" to go to hell.  Those were the lowest blows, the most selfish comments I've heard on this show, and it highlighted the out-of-whack priorities of the other women.  I don't care how big of an event is going on, when I have my child, every single second from the time I pick her up to the time I drop her off is about my time with her - for my sake just as much as hers.  I wouldn't feel I was missing out by not going after she's in bed, either.  If she wakes up in the middle of the night not feeling well, I want to be the one there to take care of her.  Mom taking off late at night is not something I'd want my daughter getting used to.  Mom can go out and party like a wild woman when the little one is with Dad.   Her choice to show up to an important event such as Dorinda's birthday showed that she's willing, but to be MIA from some lame boxing match should not have elicited the comments made by those ding-dongs.   I'm glad she has her head on straight there. 

 

I never thought I'd have Ramoaner in my top 3, but she's climbed up the ranks quite a bit this season.  That says a lot about the wackiness we've seen so far.   

 

One last thing - I absolutely love Dorinda.  She's in a class of her own and it's encouraging to see a "housewife" who truly is real, and whose values are in check.   I just hope the other nuts don't run her off. 

I have a 'peanut' younger than Bryn and I have no sympathy for Bethenny and I think human blood still runs in my veins. 

 

Don't sign up for a reality show and lie about having a (former?) Sir-Rapes-A-Lot-In-College as a boyfriend.

 

Don't sign up for a reality show and put your shit on other mothers who love their kids every bit as much as you do by fucking those other moms over so that you can perform the school run and they can't.  Inexcusable to have ANY part in that.  The drop-off process to NYC schools is crazytown, because even broke-ass (real broke-ass people, not Bethennnys) people often have to send their peanuts out of district to try and get them into a school they feel is adequate, so you have 4 through 18 year olds navigating the boroughs M-F.  NOT OKAY to gruffly say 'I had to drop my kid off' like you're getting that Best Mommy Ever Tiara in 2014 while helping to create drama and annoyance where other moms can't then drop their kids off because they are DOING THEIR JOBS and getting mic'd up.  That shit is indecent and chick KNOWS what she is doing.  You think THEY didn't want to 'drop their kid off'?  That it matters less because THEY are holding a marriage together, even to a biped douche in a porkpie hat (ahem, Kristen)?

 

Don't sign up for a reality show if you are so disconnected from reality that the strictures put on your life by your ugly divorce and wrenching custody situation, in which YOU are a participant, will somehow become ANYONE else's fault when they are knee-deep into divorcing a public philanderer, keeping their acutely ill child in strong health, mourning a husband who actually died or anything else.  Nah, mah.  (Hey, that's at least more current than 'check yourself before you wreck yourself,' no holla! required.)

 

The Heather/Bethenny thing should be sponsored by Mutual of Omaha.  I don't know which is the lion and which the gazelle.  But I can't help but root for the highlighted one, even though she is fiailing and was really pretty awful with the meatballs.  But again, have your allergies!  Have finned fish be your kryptonite!  But fucking tell someone you're rolling in to dinner in a limo lined with princess pillows and nut UP,  Bethenny.

[zoeysmom]

I'm just curious why you think she has editorial control. She certainly isn't a joy to watch this season. She appears to be hanging on by a thread. Not the Bethenny of old who was voice of the Greek Chorus. That, at least, was entertaining.

What I have noticed is Bethenny gets a disproportionate number of talking heads/ confessionals each episode that allow her to explain her behavior and less successful than previous years, Greek chorus comments.  On the show she is "putting up walls" "I am not going to do this" "this is a conversation I am not going to have".  The other RH don't seem to have the luxury of shutting down  the conversation or leaving.  For the first time we saw the other women touch upon Bethenny's redundancy.  For those who have watched the show and Bethenny's spin offs we have hard the tales of her erratic and unfortunate childhood. We have read about it, she has given interviews about it.   We have never heard Bethenny address the disputed history she has put out. to the public or heard from those who dispute it.  I was a little surprised they were using Radar On Line gossip to fill in the blanks regarding Ramona's business partner.  Most of all what Bethenny has going for her is she never complains or blames editing.

 

 

She has expressed her gratitude for the things she has many, many, MANY times.  But people who don't like her don't hear that.  Instead they take comments that she makes either in jest or figuratively (she's never actually claimed to be homeless, nor has she claimed to be an actual orphan) and respond to them as though she said those things in a serious and literal context.  It's unfortunate that so many people feel so comfortable being so uncaring about the real-life problems of real-life people just because they also happen to be distanced by a television screen.  Your distance, and her money, don't make her problems any less real or painful.

 

Bethenny has expressed gratitude.to some of those who have helped her-Bravo and Andy.  Other people, like her former agent had to sue to get their gratitude and she used her show an her platform to disparage and bring up attorney fees.   Bethenny said, "I am the wealthiest homeless person."  She later said I was pun.  It wasn't a pun it was a well placed comment  designed to elicit pity and it was in questionable taste. 

I think most feel bad that Bethenny had an undesirable childhood.  What I don't like is Bethenny's treatment of according to her a mentally ill parent and this desperate need to discuss her childhood once again, with a wife beater and never show on ounce of empathy for her mother who was battered by the man.   Her money and problems are something she has put center stage as  is her lack of empathy.  

Edited June 5, 2015 by zoeysmom

[Mya Stone]

I go to sleep...and I wake up to even more personal sniping.

There is SO MUCH to snark on this show. So. Much. So why turn it into snarking each other? We get that Bethenny is a lightning rod for controversy.I see three distinct camps - B lovers, B haters, and the "I loved B when she was first on the show...but this new version of her? Nope. Not for me." We get it, we really do...but if you can't have a simple discussion without getting personal, snippy, and /or butthurt...this isn't the place for you.

(And btw, the place that Dorinda had cater her dinner party? DELIGHTFUL. The Berkshires are not exactly known for their sushi, but this place has the best. Google Bizen. And if you're ever here, do yourself a favor and eat there. And take me with you.)

[BettyPoz]

 

Mya -- I deleted my response in you're honor.....

 

Love my NYC housewives....looking forward to seeing a little more variety of them...TPTB please hear our pleas!

Edited June 5, 2015 by BettyPoz

[Grneyedldy]

Actually, it Dorinda just didn't let it go.  She told Beth she had hummus in the fridge.  John said he would go talk to the chef.  Heather suggested the meatballs.  Look, I think Heather probably should have not said anything given that she's dealing with 'Bethenny' but it is what it is.  It wasn't a case of 'only' Heather trying to make Beth happy.

I think Bethenny regretted mentioning her fish allergy the minute it left her lips. It was probably habit and she didn't think about it turning into a HW moment. I also think she thought she would just slide right back into being a HW and underestimated the stress that comes with being on the show.

[motorcitymom65]

I think Bethenny regretted mentioning her fish allergy the minute it left her lips. It was probably habit and she didn't think about it turning into a HW moment. I also think she thought she would just slide right back into being a HW and underestimated the stress that comes with being on the show.

I don't think she really realized that the show and the dynamics of the group had changed so much. When she was on before it was much less about them as a group and more about their individual lives. They didn't have real friendships or hang with each other outside of filming, except for perhaps Jill and Beth. Now there are real bonds. They know and care about each other's families. I think that when Carole said to her "we are all very busy but we do what we can to support each other" it was a wake up call for her. She has said since that this season ended up being a revelation and much more fun than she had ever had on the show before. I guess the part where Beth is really having fun and enjoying the group is yet to come.