S07.E09: Birthday In The Berks

[SistaLadybug]

So, after having watched the show, I'll throw my opinions into the fray.  I sympathize with both women. 

 

Full disclosure: Heather has rubbed me wrong since the beginning.  The "holla", the teeth, the bossyness ... they're all too much for me.  I, like Bethenny, would've disliked her immediately.  Not because she's mean because I don't think she is.  But she annoys me and that's okay.  None of us *have* to like anybody and there doesn't have to be a particular reason for it.  Some folks just give you a bad vibe.  They just get under your skin.  You can realize that they've never been nasty or done anything to you and still not want to be friends with them.

 

And this is where I start feeling for both of them.  Bethenny doesn't like Heather.  She doesn't want to be friends with her.  That is Bethenny's right, even though she acknowledges that she doesn't have a real reason for disliking Heather other than she just ... doesn't.  I don't think Heather's a completely unaware idiot.  I think it's quite clear to her that Bethenny doesn't like her and she can't figure out why.  Heather is doing what she knows to do.  She's *trying*.  She's trying way too hard.  She's showing Bethenny all one million of her teeth.  She's offering to get their kids together.  She's calling Bethenny by nicknames.  She's offering to help ... over and over and over.  She's being very much like folks in my family are.  They overwhelm you with attention and help and affection, even when you don't want it.  Declining it is an affront to them and I can see it's an affront to Heather.  I think Heather's tears at the end of the episode are ones of frustration and confusion.  She just can't figure out why Bethenny doesn't like her.  She thinks she's being fun and engaging and friendly and she expected Bethenny to respond positively and Bethenny isn't.  Even though I don't like Heather, I feel for her.  It's not fun to be rejected.  I think Heather is used to being popular and in control of situation and in this case, she's disliked and feels herself rapidly losing control.  That sucks for her.

 

Bethenny, meanwhile, can be a rude, dismissive jerk.  Though I agree with her estimation of Heather, I think she's been over the top in her reactions in many cases.  She's swatted Heather like a fly, basically.  Not cute.  I also think, due to all the shit she has going on, Bethenny was one raw nerve.  I was the same way when my ex and I ended our marriage.  I was antsy and snippy and on the verge of tears all the time.  I needed folks to keep things light around me - it was a respite from all the heavy things I was dealing with constantly.  I think that's what Bethenny wants - light, simple, surface interactions.  Heather is trying to connect with her and Bethenny doesn't want it.  At all.  In this case, I don't see rudeness from Bethenny.  She and Heather have had a few not-so-great moments together already.  She wants to keep Heather at arm's length and Heather is refusing to allow that to happen.  I don't think Bethenny was nasty in her response to the repeatedly proffered meatball (and can you believe the meltdown over a meatball?).  She just wanted Heather's attention away from her.  When Bethenny was finally getting to have a light (and probably drunken) moment with Sonja, Heather interrupted it.  Again forcing herself on Bethenny.  I saw confusion from Bethenny in that moment.  Like, "WTF.  I'm not even talking to you guys.  Leave me alone."  She tried to explain it to Heather in what were, for Bethenny, calm terms.  "I feel like you're tending to me.  I don't want that.  I don't want attention."  Now given: Editing.  So we don't know for sure.  But the shown response to that pretty calm declaration was, "I can tell you whatever the fuck I want" (or similar - forgive me if that's not the exact quote).  Come on.  Just as Bethenny's previous reactions had been disproportionate, Heather's was completely over the top.

 

Do I think Heather was consciously being an ass then?  No.  I think she was embarrassed and frustrated.  She'd just been told she was disliked and unwanted, in front of an entire table of people.  She lashed out.  In that moment, a take-charge woman thinks, "We're being silly.  I'm gonna take charge.  I will take Bethenny by the hand and we will go in the other room and hash this out like adults."  That was her intention.  But it looked like a mom stomping over to a naughty child to take her out of the room for a "talking to".  That's how I would have received it, too.  But being an outside observer, I can see that it wasn't with malicious intent.  Heather thought this would help.  But she'd just been TOLD that Bethenny didn't want her overtures.  She should've heard that and accepted it.  Again ... frustration.  Embarrassment.  Confusion.  Thus, Heather's tears.  And Bethenny wound up the center of attention on a day when she didn't want any at all and was teetering on the edge.  Thus, Bethenny's tears.

 

I have to admit: I cried a little, too.  I felt both of them and it sucked.

[SFoster21]

As usual, SistaL, you hit it out of the park! Well done!

[Rhetorica]

So, after having watched the show, I'll throw my opinions into the fray. I sympathize with both women.

Full disclosure: Heather has rubbed me wrong since the beginning. The "holla", the teeth, the bossyness ... they're all too much for me. I, like Bethenny, would've disliked her immediately. Not because she's mean because I don't think she is. But she annoys me and that's okay. None of us *have* to like anybody and there doesn't have to be a particular reason for it. Some folks just give you a bad vibe. They just get under your skin. You can realize that they've never been nasty or done anything to you and still not want to be friends with them.

And this is where I start feeling for both of them. Bethenny doesn't like Heather. She doesn't want to be friends with her. That is Bethenny's right, even though she acknowledges that she doesn't have a real reason for disliking Heather other than she just ... doesn't. I don't think Heather's a completely unaware idiot. I think it's quite clear to her that Bethenny doesn't like her and she can't figure out why. Heather is doing what she knows to do. She's *trying*. She's trying way too hard. She's showing Bethenny all one million of her teeth. She's offering to get their kids together. She's calling Bethenny by nicknames. She's offering to help ... over and over and over. She's being very much like folks in my family are. They overwhelm you with attention and help and affection, even when you don't want it. Declining it is an affront to them and I can see it's an affront to Heather. I think Heather's tears at the end of the episode are ones of frustration and confusion. She just can't figure out why Bethenny doesn't like her. She thinks she's being fun and engaging and friendly and she expected Bethenny to respond positively and Bethenny isn't. Even though I don't like Heather, I feel for her. It's not fun to be rejected. I think Heather is used to being popular and in control of situation and in this case, she's disliked and feels herself rapidly losing control. That sucks for her.

Bethenny, meanwhile, can be a rude, dismissive jerk. Though I agree with her estimation of Heather, I think she's been over the top in her reactions in many cases. She's swatted Heather like a fly, basically. Not cute. I also think, due to all the shit she has going on, Bethenny was one raw nerve. I was the same way when my ex and I ended our marriage. I was antsy and snippy and on the verge of tears all the time. I needed folks to keep things light around me - it was a respite from all the heavy things I was dealing with constantly. I think that's what Bethenny wants - light, simple, surface interactions. Heather is trying to connect with her and Bethenny doesn't want it. At all. In this case, I don't see rudeness from Bethenny. She and Heather have had a few not-so-great moments together already. She wants to keep Heather at arm's length and Heather is refusing to allow that to happen. I don't think Bethenny was nasty in her response to the repeatedly proffered meatball (and can you believe the meltdown over a meatball?). She just wanted Heather's attention away from her. When Bethenny was finally getting to have a light (and probably drunken) moment with Sonja, Heather interrupted it. Again forcing herself on Bethenny. I saw confusion from Bethenny in that moment. Like, "WTF. I'm not even talking to you guys. Leave me alone." She tried to explain it to Heather in what were, for Bethenny, calm terms. "I feel like you're tending to me. I don't want that. I don't want attention." Now given: Editing. So we don't know for sure. But the shown response to that pretty calm declaration was, "I can tell you whatever the fuck I want" (or similar - forgive me if that's not the exact quote). Come on. Just as Bethenny's previous reactions had been disproportionate, Heather's was completely over the top.

Do I think Heather was consciously being an ass then? No. I think she was embarrassed and frustrated. She'd just been told she was disliked and unwanted, in front of an entire table of people. She lashed out. In that moment, a take-charge woman thinks, "We're being silly. I'm gonna take charge. I will take Bethenny by the hand and we will go in the other room and hash this out like adults." That was her intention. But it looked like a mom stomping over to a naughty child to take her out of the room for a "talking to". That's how I would have received it, too. But being an outside observer, I can see that it wasn't with malicious intent. Heather thought this would help. But she'd just been TOLD that Bethenny didn't want her overtures. She should've heard that and accepted it. Again ... frustration. Embarrassment. Confusion. Thus, Heather's tears. And Bethenny wound up the center of attention on a day when she didn't want any at all and was teetering on the edge. Thus, Bethenny's tears.

I have to admit: I cried a little, too. I felt both of them and it sucked.

Such a nice, calm, rational observation. This will be my Zen moment for the day. Thanks!

[Otherkate]

So, after having watched the show, I'll throw my opinions into the fray.  I sympathize with both women. 

 

Full disclosure: Heather has rubbed me wrong since the beginning.  The "holla", the teeth, the bossyness ... they're all too much for me.  I, like Bethenny, would've disliked her immediately.  Not because she's mean because I don't think she is.  But she annoys me and that's okay.  None of us *have* to like anybody and there doesn't have to be a particular reason for it.  Some folks just give you a bad vibe.  They just get under your skin.  You can realize that they've never been nasty or done anything to you and still not want to be friends with them.

 

And this is where I start feeling for both of them.  Bethenny doesn't like Heather.  She doesn't want to be friends with her.  That is Bethenny's right, even though she acknowledges that she doesn't have a real reason for disliking Heather other than she just ... doesn't.  I don't think Heather's a completely unaware idiot.  I think it's quite clear to her that Bethenny doesn't like her and she can't figure out why.  Heather is doing what she knows to do.  She's *trying*.  She's trying way too hard.  She's showing Bethenny all one million of her teeth.  She's offering to get their kids together.  She's calling Bethenny by nicknames.  She's offering to help ... over and over and over.  She's being very much like folks in my family are.  They overwhelm you with attention and help and affection, even when you don't want it.  Declining it is an affront to them and I can see it's an affront to Heather.  I think Heather's tears at the end of the episode are ones of frustration and confusion.  She just can't figure out why Bethenny doesn't like her.  She thinks she's being fun and engaging and friendly and she expected Bethenny to respond positively and Bethenny isn't.  Even though I don't like Heather, I feel for her.  It's not fun to be rejected.  I think Heather is used to being popular and in control of situation and in this case, she's disliked and feels herself rapidly losing control.  That sucks for her.

 

Bethenny, meanwhile, can be a rude, dismissive jerk.  Though I agree with her estimation of Heather, I think she's been over the top in her reactions in many cases.  She's swatted Heather like a fly, basically.  Not cute.  I also think, due to all the shit she has going on, Bethenny was one raw nerve.  I was the same way when my ex and I ended our marriage.  I was antsy and snippy and on the verge of tears all the time.  I needed folks to keep things light around me - it was a respite from all the heavy things I was dealing with constantly.  I think that's what Bethenny wants - light, simple, surface interactions.  Heather is trying to connect with her and Bethenny doesn't want it.  At all.  In this case, I don't see rudeness from Bethenny.  She and Heather have had a few not-so-great moments together already.  She wants to keep Heather at arm's length and Heather is refusing to allow that to happen.  I don't think Bethenny was nasty in her response to the repeatedly proffered meatball (and can you believe the meltdown over a meatball?).  She just wanted Heather's attention away from her.  When Bethenny was finally getting to have a light (and probably drunken) moment with Sonja, Heather interrupted it.  Again forcing herself on Bethenny.  I saw confusion from Bethenny in that moment.  Like, "WTF.  I'm not even talking to you guys.  Leave me alone."  She tried to explain it to Heather in what were, for Bethenny, calm terms.  "I feel like you're tending to me.  I don't want that.  I don't want attention."  Now given: Editing.  So we don't know for sure.  But the shown response to that pretty calm declaration was, "I can tell you whatever the fuck I want" (or similar - forgive me if that's not the exact quote).  Come on.  Just as Bethenny's previous reactions had been disproportionate, Heather's was completely over the top.

 

Do I think Heather was consciously being an ass then?  No.  I think she was embarrassed and frustrated.  She'd just been told she was disliked and unwanted, in front of an entire table of people.  She lashed out.  In that moment, a take-charge woman thinks, "We're being silly.  I'm gonna take charge.  I will take Bethenny by the hand and we will go in the other room and hash this out like adults."  That was her intention.  But it looked like a mom stomping over to a naughty child to take her out of the room for a "talking to".  That's how I would have received it, too.  But being an outside observer, I can see that it wasn't with malicious intent.  Heather thought this would help.  But she'd just been TOLD that Bethenny didn't want her overtures.  She should've heard that and accepted it.  Again ... frustration.  Embarrassment.  Confusion.  Thus, Heather's tears.  And Bethenny wound up the center of attention on a day when she didn't want any at all and was teetering on the edge.  Thus, Bethenny's tears.

 

I have to admit: I cried a little, too.  I felt both of them and it sucked.

 

I think this hits the nail on the head. 

[slitz]

IMO, Heather did that because Ramona's date/friend kept looking at them when they were cackling as he was talking about his business's, he looked like he felt they were laughing at him. JMO

 

That was the impression I got as well.  Honestly I felt it was really rude of them.

[motorcitymom65]

SistaLadyBug, I agree with so much of what you had to say.  I like Heather very much - she is my favorite by far and I think that she is just a far superior person to Beth in most of the ways that actually matter to me. Having said that, I can see both sides in this latest confrontation. IMO everyone can be right and everyone can also be wrong. We don't always have to take one particular side when we can understand where each person is coming from, even if we wouldn't react the same way that they do.

 

Beth has been rude to Heather on more than one occasion. Beth doesn't like Heather, but at this point she hasn't admitted to this. She hasn't told anyone that she doesn't like Heather, nor has she said this to Heather directly. She does participate in certain conversations with her, like the one about the custody deal without giving any real feedback or sharing her frustration with Heather. In some ways, she is pretending that she is OK with her when the larger group is together. Her harsh words for Heather have always been when they are in a small group, never when they are all together. The larger group may be completely unaware of the way that Beth has acted towards Heather because they've not seen it. Heather is trying to form some type of a bond. She sees Beth getting along well with everyone else, and she wants the same thing. I have zero issue with Beth not liking Heather. Some people don't like other people. This is actually the most "real" thing of all. It is my hope that now it is all out in the open. Beth can be open about the fact that she doesn't like Heather. She can be open about it and say all the nasty things that she wants to Heather's face. Heather in return can stop trying to make her like her and be nasty right back. Let them go at it like crazy if that is what they want, but stop any type of pretense. IMO that is fair and actually might be kind of enjoyable to watch. 

 

The thing that drives me crazy about the conversation with Beth and how we must all understand where she is coming from because of her "mommy" issues, is that why there is no equal comparison for Heather and the fact that she tends to "mommy" people? They are both products of the things they have been through. Heather has been through hell with her son. She developed a successful business while at the same time dealing with the devastating impact of him being very ill. She likes to "fix things" that she can fix. She cannot fix her son, but it is her nature to seek out imperfections and problems and attack them. If people can sympathize and understand why Beth might be the way that she is because of what happened to her 20 or 30 years ago, why can they not understand what has happened to Heather in the last 10 years? Probably because Heather is not talking about her shit. If Heather was a crying mess on the show all the time about her issues, it would all look very different. At this point we are only seeing how Beth's past has impacted her behavior, which means that most of the compassion goes to her. 

[Duke2801]

No, just no. One can't be rude and overbearing and act in a way that is totally beyond social expectations and then be repaid with politeness. The response to this doesn't have to be aggressive, but the one acting out surely should be told her actions are unacceptable.

 

Overbearing I will grant you. But how exactly was Heather rude to Beth (and YES I take immense pleasure in calling her that since I know it would annoy Ms. SkinnyB to NO end if she were to read these forums) beyond social expectations?

 

Now, pretending to "fall asleep" while somebody is talking to you about something you'd rather not discuss?  That, my friends, is rude beyond social expectations. 

 

And yet, Heather was still nice and pleasant to her when she had to interact socially with her after that.  Amazing!

 

Interesting that we didn't see any of Ramona and LuAnn's car ride. I can't help but wonder (sorry, Carole, for stealing a Bradshawism) if they weren't filmed and they practiced the apology-scene-in-the-store together. Both were rather calm and collected about the whole thing, no?

 

 

I gotta admit I was thinking along these same lines.  I mean, they had what? 3 or 4 hours alone in the car together?  Real life logic dictates that it would have been best to have their talk then.  But this is Reality TV logic.  So...

I just don't see this awful Bethenny mistreating everyone. she's taking pix of LuAnn, giggling with Sonja and Ramona, speaking with Dorinda and John

 

 

 

And I don't see this horrible Heather who is a mean, nasty, arrogant bully.  So I guess there really is no right or wrong in these situations.  Just our own personal opinions.  

 

I honestly went into this season being slightly excited for B's return.  I did like her seasons 1-3 and she did seem "real" for the most part.  But, now again in MY opinion, the combination of fame going to her head AND the fact that yes, she is stressed out about her divorce/custody stuff = NOT a pleasant person to be around and definitely not a good addition to the show. 

 

Then the B showed up to rain down misery upon everyone

 

 

I'm seriously starting to think of her as RHoNY's own Debbie Downer. Wah wah!

 

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by Duke2801

[Mozelle]

So what's interesting to me about claims of Heather always trying to boss/smother/control Bethenny is that really all it seemed to take was a well-placed TH from Bethenny in last week's episode about the custody conversation (as well her meltdown in CB2) to shift the narrative. That was episode eight. In this episode is where Bethenny had another meltdown. Suddenly, it's a seasons-long thing where Heather has been trying to control Bethenny? And folks want to dismiss editing out of hand?

 

It's, like, generally ignored how Bethenny was dismissive when Heather shared her Shark Tank-esque TV spot. Or the rudest "OHMAIGAHHH, you're bringing up Kristen?! *snore, snore, snore* Go ahead; talk. *snore, snore, snore* No, I'm listening. Talk. *snore*" bullshit. Or how she had the women over for brunch in the Hamptons and was all up in (and facilitating) the Sonja gossip only to turn around and behave like she's so concerned. 

 

If I'm looking at the time between when Heather and Bethenny started filming and this most recent episode, I'd call Heather's interactions with Bethenny benign on Heather's end. Bethenny's reactions to Heather's engagement, on the other hand, seem to be one step above of "Damn, this bitch is still breathing?" That is until her meltdown at the table when it seems that she actually finally told Heather something that was concrete (rather than passive aggressive)--"I just want the wall up."

[Rhetorica]

Overbearing I will grant you. But how exactly was Heather rude to Beth (and YES I take immense pleasure in calling her that since I know it would annoy Ms. SkinnyB to NO end if she were to read these forums) beyond social expectations?

Now, pretending to "fall asleep" while somebody is talking to you about something you'd rather not discuss? That, my friends, is rude beyond social expectations.

And yet, Heather was still nice and pleasant to her when she had to interact socially with her after that. Amazing!

I gotta admit I was thinking along these same lines. I mean, they had what? 3 or 4 hours alone in the car together? Real life logic dictates that it would have been best to have their talk then. But this is Reality TV logic. So...

Any examples I give will not change your mind, so it's just best not to engage.

[motorcitymom65]

So what's interesting to me about claims of Heather always trying to boss/smother/control Bethenny is that really all it seemed to take was a well-placed TH from Bethenny in last week's episode about the custody conversation (as well her meltdown in CB2) to shift the narrative. That was episode eight. In this episode is where Bethenny had another meltdown. Suddenly, it's a seasons-long thing where Heather has been trying to control Bethenny? And folks want to dismiss editing out of hand?

 

It's, like, generally ignored how Bethenny was dismissive when Heather shared her Shark Tank-esque TV spot. Or the rudest "OHMAIGAHHH, you're bringing up Kristen?! *snore, snore, snore* Go ahead; talk. *snore, snore, snore* No, I'm listening. Talk. *snore*" bullshit. Or how she had the women over for brunch in the Hamptons and was all up in (and facilitating) the Sonja gossip only to turn around and behave like she's so concerned. 

 

If I'm looking at the time between when Heather and Bethenny started filming and this most recent episode, I'd call Heather's interactions with Bethenny benign on Heather's end. Bethenny's reactions to Heather's engagement, on the other hand, seem to be one step above of "Damn, this bitch is still breathing?" That is until her meltdown at the table when it seems that she actually finally told Heather something that was concrete (rather than passive aggressive)--"I just want the wall up."

Yes to all of this. Now, finally, Beth has come out and said it. She has let Heather know that she feels like Heather is smothering her a bit. Before that, Heather had no idea. (Heather is a better person than I am. I would have reminded Beth of the times that she has been a raging bitch for zero reason). The thing is, Heather has watched Beth have negative interactions with others, yet she is fine with them. She had the deal with Ramona in the first couple of episodes, then she said some very harsh (yet true) words to Sonja in AC and made her cry. As Heather is watching all of this it doesn't seem to mean that Beth doesn't like them, this just seems to be her nature. I can see Heather thinking that the way Beth has been treating her is just her nature in action and that she can also still be friends with her just like Ramona and Sonja can. Now she knows that she irritates and hopefully will move on. 

[islandgal140]

I really liked this episode. Didn't even realize Sonja with a sexy j wasn't there until she showed up wearing all 101 dalmatians.  Sonja with her negligee barely closed over her apple-y implants was ridiculous. Damn near every time she is within spitting distance of a man I seriously think she is about to break out in a burlesque routine. She starts damn near shimmying her shoulders and doing all this coquettish (thanks for the word Dorinda) shit, primping, pouting, making sex eyes and bouncing about like she has ants in her pants or as if she was rubbing her legs together like a Cricket. So weird.

 

(heavy sarcasm ahead) Wow, those therapy sessions are really paying off Bethanny. It is so disconcerting to see her so easily dissolve into tears.

 

That dinner looked like a scene out of Clue that I did wish that Colonel Mustard was in the blue room with a candlestick and would've beaned both Heather and B.  Heather was more wrong this episode but B has had her fair share of acting unprovokingly bitchy and snarky for no reason.

 

It was nice that B came but I thought it was ridiculous that she was greeted as if she was the guest of honor and as if she was gifting everyone with her presence. I am not saying that is necessarily B's fault but this does go to Carol's point that the other HW's do sort of show her undue reverence and let her get away with things. One thing I kinda was like 'ugh' about is she was introduced to Dorinda's brother and he said hello how are you and so did she and she basically turned her back on him before he could answer and was off to talking to another person. Stuff like that drives me batty.

 

Heather is so bothered. LOL! She really was acting like she was a co-hostess. The minute you start dropping 'fuck' bombs at an elegant dinner party you lose. At this point both Heather and B are prickly.

 

I was surprised that it was Carole doing the internet search on Ramona's non-date. I expected it to be the Countess. Never seen Carole be messy in that way before.

 

OK, maybe I'm not remembering, but when has Moaner cried "crocodile tears" as Kristen says?  Idk, Kristen seemed mostly clueless & useless in this ep & in her Bravo blog.  In fact, all the Bravo blogs seem to be used now as merely an op for each one of 'em to backtrack & bullshit their heads off.

 

 

I would say Ramona cried crocodile tears in the Berkshires last season while in the forest which reminded her of her youth so she can make her private plane flight that she has scheduled just that morning back to NY and to a party later that evening with Molly Sims in the Hamptons.. 

[ParkCirclegirl]

Uh Mah Gaw.  Is that a real photo, or was his head photoshopped onto someone else's body? 

This has to be photo shopped...Andy actually mowing a lawn, really?

 

Btw, it is me, Baltimore Betty.  I forgot my password and the reset page never gave me the security check picture so I had to make another account:(

[Darian]

I have a low threshold for drama (yeah, I am watching the wrong show), but I did enjoy the moments of fun the  women were having. Seeing the twin animal-print vests and selfie was cute. I want more things like that.   

She also wore that old blue Pucci sleeveless dress for a Christmas dinner party.   Red and white plates with yellow flowers on the table.    All of it was yuck.

I love Dorinda for having yellow flowers on the her otherwise perfectly coordinated table--because, I am almost certain, they were the flowers Ramona brought her (as has been speculated). That's a lovely gesture. It would have been fine to have them on a side table or mantel, but she showcased something a friend brought her. To me that aesthetically wrong note is a classy and thoughtful right note. 

 

I suspect the Christmas decorations some find unappealing are a bit like that. She could have coordinated, harmonious decorations throughout the house, but she has what she wants, probably things that mean something to her (I should be so gracious with the patriotic Santa my mother-in-law gave me, but I cannot). 

 

Good grief, Bethenny. You make no effort with anyone ever. 

[sekay87]

I completely agree with everyone saying Heather was out of line here. Granted, I am a Bethenny fan, but before this season I was also a Heather fan. I think my issue here is that Heather needs to know when it's inappropriate for her to insert herself into a situation, and she needs to accept when people tell her to back off and let them deal with things on their own. From what I see, Heather involves herself in every altercation and always feels the need to give her two cents. It even happened earlier in the episode when Kristen and Dorinda were fighting. Why was she getting involved? Dorinda and Kristen are two grown women who can deal with their own conflict without Heather mediating or involving herself. It's just ridiculous to me. I think she's seeking more camera time, attention, and wants her position on the show to elevate so she's creating fights and manufacturing drama. I think Heather is pissed that Bethenny is back, because that means she is no longer the "successful business woman boss lady" role on the show-B is.

I also had a huge issue with Heather belittling Bethenny's experiences. I do understand that it's not an excuse for B to not show up to Housewives events, but who is Heather to say that Bethenny shouldn't be affected by everything from her past and everything going on in her life right now? Over the past 3 years she's lost her husband, her talk show, and has to share custody of her toddler. Combine that with how hard she's worked to build up Skinnygirl brands and her childhood and yea, it's rough. Heather does have a sick child, and she handles it like a champ. But honestly Heather also has a flourishing business and a strong marriage. Bethenny's personal and professional life have been tanking the past couple years and she's trying to fix it. THAT is the difference Heather. Losing your nanny is not the same thing. Everyone deals with loss and hardship differently, and some people can compartmentalize better than others. Heather may be good at burying her stuff, but that doesn't mean everyone is. Bethenny obviously isn't as good at hiding when she's going through a rough time, and that's just a difference in personality. Not something to be criticized by a know it all (Heather).

Dorinda is amazing and I think she's a fantastic addition to this show. Everyone needs to get off her about John. I agree that he is gross, but she loves him and she's happy. Shouldn't that be all that matters? These women need to get off their high horses and worry about their own love lives.

[pbutler111]

What they should do now is give her the space she wants. Ignore her. Have fun without her. Follow Jill's advice and just film around her. Eventually hopefully she'll just fade away.

 

 

And Jill is.... where now? 

[pbutler111]

Luann weighs in on the dinner fiasco: http://www.inquisitr.com/2141329/luann-de-lesseps-heather-was-way-off-base-in-comparison-to-bethenny-frankel/

[Sincerely Yours]

There is no  one named Beth on this show.  However, Bethenny has not had an issue with Heather trying to befriend her, she's had an issue with Heather's ongoing attempts to try to control her.  Most people would get that someone doesn't want to enter into a discussion with a virtual stranger of the most painful, current problem going on in their life, and they'd respect that and move on. Not Heather.  Heather not only insists on constantly trying to force Bethenny into a conversation about her divorce and child custody, but she gets pissed when Bethenny honestly tells her it's too painful to discuss.  When Bethenny doesn't want attention brought to her at the dinner table, Heather can't stop bringing attention to it until, when Bethenny finally tells her to back the fuck off, Heather actually gets pissed and says, "I can say anything to you I want."  Well, sure, she can say anything to Bethenny she wants, including saying all the things Bethenny has begged her not to bring up.  But, if she's going to do that, she shouldn't whine and complain when she gets an enormously negative response.

Begged, pleaded.. ?? Sheesh you would think Beth was on her hands and knees begging for the abuse to stop. Not that serious and I don't believe Heathers interactions with Beth have been all that brutal so this whole fragile little flower costume being bestowed upon Beth is just so darn perplexing to me.

[pbutler111]

Begged, pleaded.. ?? Sheesh you would think Beth was on her hands and knees begging for the abuse to stop. Not that serious and I don't believe Heathers interactions with Beth have been all that brutal so this whole fragile little flower costume being bestowed upon Beth is just so darn perplexing to me.

 

Yes, she literally begged and pleaded for Heather to stop drawing attention to her.  You don't have to be on your hands and knees to be begging and pleading.  She entreated, she beseeched, she did everything but offer her money to make her go away.  But Heather can't seem to grasp that no everyone wants her to run their lives, or their dinners.

[Sincerely Yours]

Didn't Carole say Bethenny talks about it all of the time to them?

I think that it's enough of a presence that the other women shouldn't be racked over the coals for mentioning it.  I mean snark aside it does seem to be the reason she can't make functions or events or is late to the limo for a trip to Atlantic city. I'm just saying that it's a factor somewhat at times where the other women are involved so I don't think there's anything wrong with the subject coming up. I don't see why there needs to be some clutched pearls reaction at the idea that these women inquire about Beth's situation. I happen to think that it's pretty organic to comment, question, inquire about little details surrounding the situation if it pertains to the reason why Beth can't, won't, will be late or isn't staying long. Not that she has to answer to them or anything but I can totally see some quick comment asking something innocent about her time with Brynn in that moment. Something like "oh you have to leave early? Spending time with Brynn? How long do you have her for this week"? I mean it's going to happen. I'm not understanding this whole over the top reactions from Beth. Actually I do. Heathers is annoying, Beth doesn't like Heather so everything Heather does, suggests, comments on is grating and Beth's reactions, to me, exaggerate Heathers gestures because it makes me look twice and rethink what Heather did and then I go oh okay I can see why Beth is annoyed. I know sometimes its noticeable upon first impression with Heather cause sometimes no revisiting is necessary she's just a pain but damn it it isn't as bad as Beth's making it. It just isn't.

 

Also, this whole Heather is a pain deal is distracting from how vile Beth still is. I mean, does she ever have anything nice to say? No really? Has she extended any nice gestures to any of these women. A sweet comment, a compliment? Said anything about the others that isn't nasty, rude, judgemental? Oh she doesn't want to be fake? I mean there's nothing fake about being nice even if you haven't taken a liking to someone. Beth does this thing where you just don't matter and will behave in a dismissive manor towards you and NO that's just not right. Plain and simple. I get the Heather is the way she is but damn at least she's straightforward about it while also trying to be somewhat positive if not dripping honey sweet.

 

I loved how she handled Ramona in her first season. Not so much when she joined the Aviva bash but for what it's worth that women is not fake. She can not like things about you, get pissed at you and act out or act a fool (Kristen in the Berkshire last season) but damn if that ain't just straight up Heather. I do think she has snark about her. Who doesn't? But she doesn't wield that shit like a sword aimed at people just cause she can. Usually there's a reason for her bite whenever it does appear whether it be misplaced or not there's a reason so I'm on team Heather cause she has honest reactions. Beth has "I'm ready for my close up" shots.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[hottesthw]

And Jill is.... where now?

Exactly where Bethenny belongs. In the memories of housewives past.

[Grneyedldy]

Ugh, Twitter is eviscerating Heather. She has said that she behaved horribly and owns it, but also said in response to one comment "thanks Mama I'm taking a beating with her editing stick."

To which Bethenny sub-tweeted her, saying all righteous, "@Bethenny: Hold up white girl. R we blaming editing at this point? In 9 seasons of reality tv i've done i've never done that. #itaintthehills"

So gross. And the comments beneath THAT are really foul.

Bethenny, you haven't had a bad edit because Andy has protected you - and for many of those seasons you were executive producer in control of the edit. You are way too smart to not get that "edit" is about "choosing the narrative" and yes, there are always winners and losers. The old "they only use what you give them" argument has been proven invalid again and again. Producers manipulate and create characters to suit their needs. There's a whole new TV show ("unReal") based on this completely known dynamic.

Look, Heather is a smart, adult woman who made an informed choice to do this show and to come back twice. All actions have consequences, all risks have possible fallout, and she's living through that right now. So she's not a victim. But she's going through the shit and I feel bad for her, angry with the editors (they really don't seem to get that these are real people), disgusted by some of the commenters (not here so much as on Twitter), and frankly, starting to feel a little disappointed in myself for being part of it.

Do you really think Bethenny is getting a good edit? I keep reading this and shaking my head in confusion. It appears that we have seen every time Bethenny has a breakdown or was "rude" to Heather. Clearly the editing monkeys have chosen the Bethenny/Heather conflict to be the theme. Along with showing just how UN WELL Bethenny is coping with everything in her life.

Surely there are better moments filmed of the women and clearly that is not what Bravo chooses to show us.

[pbutler111]

I think that it's enough of a presence that the other women shouldn't be racked over the coals for mentioning it.  I mean snark aside it does seem to be the reason she can't make functions or events or is late to the limo for a trip to Atlantic city. I'm just saying that it's a factor somewhat at times where the other women are involved so I don't think there's anything wrong with the subject coming up. I don't see why there needs to be some clutched pearls reaction at the idea that these women inquire about Beth's situation. I happen to think that it's pretty organic to comment, question, inquire about little details surrounding the situation if it pertains to the reason why Beth can't, won't, will be late or isn't staying long. Not that she has to answer to them or anything but I can totally see some quick comment asking something innocent about her time with Brynn in that moment. Something like "oh you have to leave early? Spending time with Brynn? How long do you have her for this week"? I mean it's going to happen. I'm not understanding this whole over the top reactions from Beth. Actually I do. Heathers is annoying, Beth doesn't like Heather so everything Heather does, suggests, comments on is grating and Beth's reactions, to me, exaggerate Heathers gestures because it makes me look twice and rethink what Heather did and then I go oh okay I can see why Beth is annoyed. I know sometimes its noticeable upon first impression with Heather cause sometimes no revisiting is necessary she's just a pain but damn it it isn't as bad as Beth's making it. It just isn't.

 

Also, this whole Heather is a pain deal is distracting from how vile Beth still is. I mean, does she ever have anything nice to say? No really? Has she extended any nice gestures to any of these women. A sweet comment, a compliment? Said anything about the others that isn't nasty, rude, judgemental? Oh she doesn't want to be fake? I mean there's nothing fake about being nice even if you haven't taken a liking to someone. Beth does this thing where you just don't matter and will behave in a dismissive manor towards you and NO that's just not right. Plain and simple. I get the Heather is the way she is but damn at least she's straightforward about it while also trying to be somewhat positive if not dripping honey sweet.

 

I loved how she handled Ramona in her first season. Not so much when she joined the Aviva bash but for what it's worth that women is not fake. She can not like things about you, get pissed at you and act out or act a fool (Kristen in the Berkshire last season) but damn if that ain't just straight up Heather. I do think she has snark about her. Who doesn't? But she doesn't wield that shit like a sword aimed at people just cause she can. Usually there's a reason for her bite whenever it does appear whether it be misplaced or not there's a reason so I'm on team Heather cause she has honest reactions. Beth has "I'm ready for my close up" shots.

 

Bethenny was extremely kind and patient with Sonja.  She also gets along well with Carole, in real life and on the show.

[beaker73]

Does anyone else notice that when Ramona tries to say something meaningful and profound, her voice completely changes, the tone and timbre gets quieter and she tries to sound all "zen" and peaceful-like?

 

I kin of felt badly for her after she said all that, because I think she was expecting people to compliment her on her thoughtful words, but instead, she didn't get the response she was expecting.  She looked kind of hurt about that. 

Yes - totally.  Ramona is like the least zen person on the planet.  I loved how Carole and Dorinda were all like, "Yeah...that's a load of horseshit."  Poor Moaner. 

 

I don't see any jealousy on Heather's part. Imo Heather is coming from a good place in regards to Beth. I don't think she understands why Beth is reacting so negatively. And that is frustrating to her . I don't that makes her a bad person. I haven't seen Heather do anything mean or cruel to Beth.

I think Heather is trying to get along with Beth but Beth isn't interested because she is not interested in this show. She wanted her own show.

Heather is more curious and engaging than Kristen so we see her actively trying with Beth.

Dorinda seems to have a what ever attitude. If you notice when Beth starts to protest at the table and waves her hands around, D just says ok fine and takes a bite of whatever she is eating. She pretty much did the same thing about not being invited to B's birthday it bothered her but after Beth made it clear that it was ridiculous for Dorinda to be upset, she was like ok whatever.

God help me, but I was actually thinking about this last night after finally watching the episode.  I think frustrated perfectly captures what Heather is feeling.  It struck me just how frustrated Heather actually was with this whole situation when she had tears in her eyes at the dinner table. I don't think she's jealous of B at all.  I *do* think that she and maybe some of the other ladies are wondering why Andy felt the need to bring her back and feel a bit threatened maybe? Anyway, it seems Heather has tried to engage B on different occasions and B has blown her off.  Heather also seems to be playing production's game of introducing topics to discuss on camera (Sonja's delusional behavior, Kristen's non-invite, etc.) and B doesn't seem to be digging that.

 

Heather needs to disengage.  Stop trying to be friends with B, because she doesn't give a shit. 

 

 

 

[autumnh]

I just cannot watch Bethenny anymore. She seems 2 seconds away from a meltdown at any given moment. Yes I know she is going through a lot...but we've ALL gone through a lot. I was a widow at 23...was left with nothing and worked 4 jobs at any given time to make sure I could pay bills, pay for medical insurance and put my son through private school....

 

Yes, I know everyones journey is different but this might not have been the best decision for her.

 

Every.single.episode she is either breaking down or well, being a bitch. I like bitchy B better but it is painful this season.

[motorcitymom65]

There is no  one named Beth on this show.  However, Bethenny has not had an issue with Heather trying to befriend her, she's had an issue with Heather's ongoing attempts to try to control her.  Most people would get that someone doesn't want to enter into a discussion with a virtual stranger of the most painful, current problem going on in their life, and they'd respect that and move on. Not Heather.  Heather not only insists on constantly trying to force Bethenny into a conversation about her divorce and child custody, but she gets pissed when Bethenny honestly tells her it's too painful to discuss.  When Bethenny doesn't want attention brought to her at the dinner table, Heather can't stop bringing attention to it until, when Bethenny finally tells her to back the fuck off, Heather actually gets pissed and says, "I can say anything to you I want."  Well, sure, she can say anything to Bethenny she wants, including saying all the things Bethenny has begged her not to bring up.  But, if she's going to do that, she shouldn't whine and complain when she gets an enormously negative response.

Wait. What? When have we seen Heather "constantly try to force Beth into a conversation about her custody and divorce"? Was there something before the custody conversation last week? Did Beth actively object to Heather and tell her to back the fuck off? If so, Bravo hasn't yet beamed it into my TV. During their most recent interaction, when Beth told Heather to back off, didn't she attempt (a bad, bad move to be sure) to take Beth away to discuss? When Beth said she didn't want to, did Heather demand that she sit at that table and give the nasty details of her ongoing marital struggles? This narrative has taken a strange turn, IMO. History seems to be getting revised at least from what I have seen.

[RedheadZombie]

I like Dorinda and her Berkshire estate is just beautiful, from the outside. The inside however, looked to me like a combination of Downton Abbey and The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas. Hated the decor and colors.

It reminded me a bit of Graceland, with Elvis being a bit more minimalist than Dorinda.

[pbutler111]

Wait. What? When have we seen Heather "constantly try to force Beth into a conversation about her custody and divorce"? Was there something before the custody conversation last week? Did Beth actively object to Heather and tell her to back the fuck off? If so, Bravo hasn't yet beamed it into my TV. During their most recent interaction, when Beth told Heather to back off, didn't she attempt (a bad, bad move to be sure) to take Beth away to discuss? When Beth said she didn't want to, did Heather demand that she sit at that table and give the nasty details of her ongoing marital struggles? This narrative has taken a strange turn, IMO. History seems to be getting revised at least from what I have seen.

 

Yes, Heather tried to get Bethenny to talk about it at the birthday gathering at the restaurant, and at Carole's apartment.  As for the dinner and Heather trying to take Bethenny away, that was probably one of the more outrageous moves Heather made.  She's browbeaten Bethenny to tears because she just can't keep her nose out of other people's business and then, when Bethenny is at her breaking point, Heather marches over like a school marm and attempts to pull Bethenny out of her chair and make her leave the table, as though she were a child having a tantrum.  Heather's behavior was OUTRAGEOUS.  If I'd been in that situation and Heather had put her hand on my shoulder, she could've retrieved that hand from the other side of the room.

[nexxie]

Whether she's smothering Skinny Girl with 20 questions or badmouthing her behind her back, Heather has a very unhealthy obsession with Bethenny. It's bordering on Single White Female territory at this point.

imo Heather sniffed out Bethenny for alpha dog competition on day one.

[nexxie]

Enjoyed seeing Dorinda in her home - fits her! She's really growing on me.

[ghoulina]

Do you really think Bethenny is getting a good edit? I keep reading this and shaking my head in confusion. It appears that we have seen every time Bethenny has a breakdown or was "rude" to Heather. Clearly the editing monkeys have chosen the Bethenny/Heather conflict to be the theme. Along with showing just how UN WELL Bethenny is coping with everything in her life.

 

I don't think Bethenny is getting a good edit at all. I was a B fan back in the day, and the first few episodes had me loathing her. I didn't like her whining about being "homeless", and I hated her whole "I'm bored" routine. She seems to have simmered down now, which is nice. But there are still plenty of people who find her current behavior appalling, while others side with her and find Heather obnoxious. Then there are those who see both sides. So rather than editing, I tend to think it's just a MMV type thing. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Hmm...interesting origins..but I also think that this particular franchise got its inspiration from 1939s The Women too )

Edited June 4, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[Boofish]

Why was it OK for Heather to whisper to Carole but it wasn't OK for B and Sonja to have a side conversation? B may be mean stand-offish etc but it seems to be only when poked. Why are you giving B all these opportunities to be mean to you? Just say hello and move on with your life. 

[Mozelle]

Why was it OK for Heather to whisper to Carole but it wasn't OK for B and Sonja to have a side conversation? B may be mean stand-offish etc but it seems to be only when poked. Why are you giving B all these opportunities to be mean to you? Just say hello and move on with your life.

It's right there in what you said--Heather whispered to Carole. You could actually hear Sonja and Bethenny cackling as Ramona's date was talking. That wasn't just a side conversation.

 

I don't think Bethenny is getting a good edit at all. I was a B fan back in the day, and the first few episodes had me loathing her. I didn't like her whining about being "homeless", and I hated her whole "I'm bored" routine. She seems to have simmered down now, which is nice. But there are still plenty of people who find her current behavior appalling, while others side with her and find Heather obnoxious. Then there are those who see both sides. So rather than editing, I tend to think it's just a MMV type thing.

 

I had a response to the previous comment you quote...then the server hiccuped. Ugh.

 

Suffice it to say, I agree with you. For me it's not so much that Bethenney's getting a good edit but that because apparently Andy was surprised by all the pushback she was getting in the first few episodes, there's a more concerted effort to malign Heather in these past two episodes. I forget who it was who said that a caller made a statement about it on WWHL earlier in the season and Andy seemed taken aback by the idea that not everyone was cheering for "The B is back." So, what to do?

 

My theory is that as a way to offset that initial pushback (eps. 1-7), it becomes a moment of showing all the moments where Heather is trying her damndest to get Bethenny to like her in the most ham-handed way (that dinner scene) in heightened fashion (ep. 9) as well as the TH comment from Bethenny about just not liking Heather (again, ep. 9). Andplusalso, splicing in Bethenny's TH where she comments about Heather discussing the custody (ep. 8). 

 

(I wrote this long, admittedly tedious post in the RH in the media thread showing just where the tide started to turn and it coinciding with last week's episode as well as Bethenny's interview of Andy.)

Edited June 4, 2015 by Mozelle

[trimthatfat]

Yes, she literally begged and pleaded for Heather to stop drawing attention to her.  You don't have to be on your hands and knees to be begging and pleading.  She entreated, she beseeched, she did everything but offer her money to make her go away.  But Heather can't seem to grasp that no everyone wants her to run their lives, or their dinners.

I agree. Bethenny said she didn't want to do 'this'. She said 'get off me...I don't want attention'. Someone else (Ramona?) at the table said 'back off', I assume, to Heather. Heather was repeatedly told to stop doing what she was doing. It kind of floors me that she didn't get it. Heather was so focused on helping Bethenny in the way she [Heather] thought Bethenny should be helped that she didn't see Bethenny's perspective.

Edited June 4, 2015 by trimthatfat

[Sincerely Yours]

I just don't see this awful Bethenny mistreating everyone. she's taking pix of LuAnn, giggling with Sonja and Ramona, speaking with Dorinda and John.

 

But Beth and Sonja were having a disruptive conversation that was distracting other conversations that were being had at the table. I mean really. Was it really not completely obvious how inappropriately Beth and Sonja were behaving at the table. I mean don't we correct children for behaving like that during dinner? No seriously. I'm completely confused as to how it is not absolutely clear the behavior in which Heather was having an issue with. Uhhhh, the behavior that most people would find completely rude and obnoxious while dining with others. Also, I've noticed that this is seriously Beth's MO. Her little side bars at a table, find someone who will engage in the mean girl behavior and go nuts with the juvenile behavior making one dig after another partnered with giggling and/or eyerolls. Beth has always got to derail group conversations that she doesn't initiate. She can never seem to just integrate herself into an already existing conversation she either has to make some abrupt comment that screeches the convo to a halt complete with her bug eyes wide looking like she doesn't understand why a conversation is being had in the first place or initiates her own loud, rude sidebar conversation usually criticizing the ongoing conversation while not actually participating in it. Drives me fucking nuts and she does it all the fucking time. The few times she actually "gets dragged into" a convo she's kicking and screaming and isn't about to "engage" in it all the while belittling the necessity for the conversation to even be had and making some dramatic exit, leaving the other women shellshocked because ummmm "what just happened and why"?... But Beth is the one that always seems to try and come away as the "sane" one. The one that thought everyone was bonkers, why this, why that, it's all so confusing and she's above the ridiculous... (insert subject or topic here)  Uggggggghhhhh. Beth is just miserable all the way around.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[archer1267]

This is why I hate New Yorkers who come here for the holidays, leaf peeping, and the summer. This right here.

It's MY hood, dammit.

 

 

I see both points on this, both as someone who was born and raised in upstate NY, and as someone who's lived in Massachusetts for 20 years. YES, it is highly annoying when Manhattanites find some cute l'il place in upstate NY or New England and then co-opt it as "theirs."

 

So, I get that irritation.

 

At the same time, Heather grew up in Copake, which IS technically part of the Berkshires, if you look at where the range is on a map. When people say "The Berkshires," they're generally talking about western Massachusetts, but the mountains do extend into CT and NY as well. I didn't see it as Heather being a pretender, like "I bought a weekend home in Rhinebeck three years ago and the Hudson Valley's my hood" as yeah, she did legit grow up there.

 

I do find it curious that this is Heather's 3rd season and we've yet to see anything about where she lives. When she and Aviva had pedis last season, she said "Welcome to the upper west side" to Aviva, so I'd assumed that that's where she lives.

Edited June 4, 2015 by archer1267

[SCS]

She's browbeaten Bethenny to tears (snip)

To me, Beth's teariness was nothing more than proof that she wants to control the conversation and, if she cannot, she'll develop the vapors. Honestly, how does (did) this dame survive in a tense, high-pressure business boardroom?

[Sincerely Yours]

Wait, Heather isn't whining? Maybe not literally - oh, wait, she actually is doing it literally when she breaks down into tears after (shocker) the forty-year-old woman to whom she said "I'm going to have to separate you two" and whose hand she grabbed after being repeatedly told to desist didn't respond pleasantly. A similar plaintiveness is consistent throughout her amazement that Bethenny didn't care to pursue Heather's oh-so-important news that Kristen was "hurt" ("what a bitch!") and her aggrieved befuddlement that Bethenny didn't want her to commandeer the food situation while Bethenny was addressing Dorinda ("I can't even offer her . . . "). Bethenny may have been raised by wolves, but Heather is always (ALWAYS!) the victim and offended party. Even when she's dropping the "motherfuckers," "fuckin"s, the "g"s on her nouns, screaming at her co-workers, hissing at her husband, talking shit about Ramona and Sonja behind their backs (even though she really *cares* about them), and insisting that she was just trying to sympathize with Bethenny (have I mentioned she cares?) when she sighed, "pffft. Divorce and a bitter, extended custody battle? I just had to find a new nanny! What about MY struggle? Holla!"

Point being. Heather isn't chronic about it.

[jimene79]

I totally get being annoyed by some of Heather's behavior.  However, Bethenny's response has been so classic mean girl and over the top that I am firmly on Heather's side.  For instance, she totally wanted to gossip at her brunch and then when Heather engages in that starts snoring or saying she's bored or whatever in her face. I thought that was pretty mean - who does that.  It's completely unacceptable behavior and much more unacceptable than someone being too doting about food issues (which Bethenny made an issue, again, see a pattern).  She was also extremely rude about Heather's MSNBC appearance - something that if I were Heather would definitely be a cool discussion for Bethenny given that she's supposedly a businesswoman (I myself have doubts that she's nothing more than a glorified salesperson or endorser).  Even with stuff like the tatoo, she says one thing to Heather and then makes fun of her to the audience.  Is this supposed to be cute or endearing behavior?  I don't remember her being so catty, petty, and mean before.  I really dislike Bethenny's behavior and think it would be unacceptable from anyone in real life. 

[Trooper York]

Before the season began many of us speculated that Bethenny and Heather would go at it. I know I was wrong because I thought Carole would be the catalyst. I thought Bethenny would call out Carole's pretentious phony act and Heather would jump in to protect her like she did with big bad Aviva.

Little did I know that Betheny would love Carole and join her in "A Place of Phony." Carole is reveling in it and she certainly is does not have Heathers back in the same way as Heather did when the Jimmy Cho was on the other foot.

So now Heather can be isolated. Ramona has had her problems with her already. Luann is not going to cross Bethenny. Dorinda is the new girl so she doesn't matter. Sonja is always in another world and still pissed about the toaster oven. Carole has switched teams in her typical stealth two

faced way. That just leaves Kristen who she has no respect for and who she bulldozes at every opportunity.

Aviva must be shining up her leg and cackling while sending in her application to "Limping with the Stars."

[escatefromny]

She's browbeaten Bethenny to tears because she just can't keep her nose out of other people's business and then, when Bethenny is at her breaking point, Heather marches over like a school marm and attempts to pull Bethenny out of her chair and make her leave the table, as though she were a child having a tantrum.  Heather's behavior was OUTRAGEOUS.  If I'd been in that situation and Heather had put her hand on my shoulder, she could've retrieved that hand from the other side of the room.

Agree, Heather really crossed the line when Heather left her seat and tried pull Bethny away from the table. WTF?!?!

[jimene79]

Before the season began many of us speculated that Bethenny and Heather would go at it. I know I was wrong because I thought Carole would be the catalyst. I thought Bethenny would call out Carole's pretentious phony act and Heather would jump in to protect her like she did with big bad Aviva.

Little did I know that Betheny would love Carole and join her in "A Place of Phony." Carole is reveling in it and she certainly is does not have Heathers back in the same way as Heather did when the Jimmy Cho was on the other foot.

So now Heather can be isolated. Ramona has had her problems with her already. Luann is not going to cross Bethenny. Dorinda is the new girl so she doesn't matter. Sonja is always in another world and still pissed about the toaster oven. Carole has switched teams in her typical stealth two

faced way. That just leaves Kristen who she has no respect for and who she bulldozes at every opportunity.

Aviva must be shining up her leg and cackling while sending in her application to "Limping with the Stars."

Totally agree with you that Bethenny is trying to freeze out Heather and I just don't think behavior like that is interesting or fun to watch in a middle-aged woman.

[Trooper York]

Heather is the only one smart enough to be a threat to Bethenny's position. Luann could do it but she just got full time status back and will not go against Satan Andy's favorite. The rest of them are nonentities.

[Mozelle]

Before the season began many of us speculated that Bethenny and Heather would go at it. I know I was wrong because I thought Carole would be the catalyst. I thought Bethenny would call out Carole's pretentious phony act and Heather would jump in to protect her like she did with big bad Aviva.

Little did I know that Betheny would love Carole and join her in "A Place of Phony." Carole is reveling in it and she certainly is does not have Heathers back in the same way as Heather did when the Jimmy Cho was on the other foot.

So now Heather can be isolated. Ramona has had her problems with her already. Luann is not going to cross Bethenny. Dorinda is the new girl so she doesn't matter. Sonja is always in another world and still pissed about the toaster oven. Carole has switched teams in her typical stealth two faced way. That just leaves Kristen who she has no respect for and who she bulldozes at every opportunity.

Aviva must be shining up her leg and cackling while sending in her application to "Limping with the Stars."

 

That actually isn't true, but OK.

[SistaLadybug]

I think the dinner party situation is one of mileage.  My friends and I have group dinners like that regularly.  15 or more of us, usually.  And when we do, there are at least three conversations happening simultaneously.  One group will be having a serious heart-to-heart.  One will be talking about fashion.  One will be indulging in drunken gossip.  Anything and everything is talked about and all at the same time.  No one gets upset.  No pissyness if somebody gets loud at the other end of the table.  Maybe we'll look in that direction and laugh or even roll our eyes.  I've even had napkins tossed in my direction if I'm especially loud.  But it's no biggie.  Folks ebb and flow.  They drop out of and enter conversations freely.

 

Again, I don't think either were particularly wrong.  Bethenny is more like my friend circle in that she didn't seem to give a damn who was in what conversation (at least at that moment).  Heather is more the "Let's be polite and pay attention to the one talking".  Another case of crossed wires.  Not to mention that, if you're already pissed off with someone and don't like them, everything they do is gonna make you wanna slap their face.

[SFoster21]

But Beth and Sonja were having a disruptive conversation that was distracting other conversations that were being had at the table. I mean really. Was it really not completely obvious how inappropriately Beth and Sonja were behaving at the table. I mean don't we correct children for behaving like that during dinner? No seriously. I'm completely confused as to how it is not absolutely clear the behavior in which Heather was having an issue with. Uhhhh, the behavior that most people would find completely rude and obnoxious while dining with others. Also, I've noticed that this is seriously Beth's MO. Her little side bars at a table, find someone who will engage in the mean girl behavior and go nuts with the juvenile behavior making one dig after another partnered with giggling and/or eyerolls. Beth has always got to derail group conversations that she doesn't initiate. She can never seem to just integrate herself into an already existing conversation she either has to make some abrupt comment that screeches the convo to a halt complete with her bug eyes wide looking like she doesn't understand why a conversation is being had in the first place or initiates her own loud, rude sidebar conversation usually criticizing the ongoing conversation while not actually participating in it. Drives me fucking nuts and she does it all the fucking time. The few times she actually "gets dragged into" a convo she's kicking and screaming and isn't about to "engage" in it all the while belittling the necessity for the conversation to even be had and making some dramatic exit, leaving the other women shellshocked because ummmm "what just happened and why"?... But Beth is the one that always seems to try and come away as the "sane" one. The one that thought everyone was bonkers, why this, why that, it's all so confusing and she's above the ridiculous... (insert subject or topic here) Uggggggghhhhh. Beth is just miserable all the way around.

Reasonable men may differ. Not how I see it.

[Sincerely Yours]

Bethenny was extremely kind and patient with Sonja.  She also gets along well with Carole, in real life and on the show.

AFTER making Sonja cry (which I completely understood). And when she was being all nice to Sonja there was a lot of her own weepy history incorporated into that whole exchange. As for her interactions with Carol... All about her.... And Carole RECEIVES Beth which is what Beth likes. I'll also add that she did have a very nice interaction with Lu in one of the earlier episodes but that's about it.

[Trooper York]

This is of course just my opinion but I don't think I said anything that was untrue.

We can of course agree to disagree on everything if we agree on one crucial point!

It is all Carole's fault!!!!!!

[Sincerely Yours]

I totally get being annoyed by some of Heather's behavior.  However, Bethenny's response has been so classic mean girl and over the top that I am firmly on Heather's side.  For instance, she totally wanted to gossip at her brunch and then when Heather engages in that starts snoring or saying she's bored or whatever in her face. I thought that was pretty mean - who does that.  It's completely unacceptable behavior and much more unacceptable than someone being too doting about food issues (which Bethenny made an issue, again, see a pattern).  She was also extremely rude about Heather's MSNBC appearance - something that if I were Heather would definitely be a cool discussion for Bethenny given that she's supposedly a businesswoman (I myself have doubts that she's nothing more than a glorified salesperson or endorser).  Even with stuff like the tatoo, she says one thing to Heather and then makes fun of her to the audience.  Is this supposed to be cute or endearing behavior?  I don't remember her being so catty, petty, and mean before.  I really dislike Bethenny's behavior and think it would be unacceptable from anyone in real life. 

Oh I remember this behavior from Beth from day one. I was very tuned into it and didn't think Beth was cute back then, on her spin offs or in this current season. She's always been abrupt. Inserted random barbs for no reason, derailed conversations, expressed some stupid opinion that really had no place in a conversation and has a rude and overly sensitive defense mechanism that infects social gatherings on the regular. Ugggghhh!

[Sincerely Yours]

I think the dinner party situation is one of mileage.  My friends and I have group dinners like that regularly.  15 or more of us, usually.  And when we do, there are at least three conversations happening simultaneously.  One group will be having a serious heart-to-heart.  One will be talking about fashion.  One will be indulging in drunken gossip.  Anything and everything is talked about and all at the same time.  No one gets upset.  No pissyness if somebody gets loud at the other end of the table.  Maybe we'll look in that direction and laugh or even roll our eyes.  I've even had napkins tossed in my direction if I'm especially loud.  But it's no biggie.  Folks ebb and flow.  They drop out of and enter conversations freely.

 

 

But see that's the group dynamic of friends and I had a feeling that this point of view would come up cause I thought the same thing and have actually engaged in PLENTY of these type of antics around the dinner table but these aren't college friends or old friends or especially close friends sitting around this table. It's a combination of co-workers, new and old friends, colleagues and absolute strangers. That sort of familiar banter isn't really appropriate at a table with this list of attendees.

This is of course just my opinion but I don't think I said anything that was untrue.

We can of course agree to disagree on everything if we agree on one crucial point!

It is all Carole's fault!!!!!!

Let the Carole bashing begin.. It's been too long.. ;-)  LOL!

Edited June 4, 2015 by Sincerely Yours