One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[shron17]

20 hours ago, tarotx said:

And he didn't make up facts either. He just knew his positions. Rory often didn"t. And not just with Logan. With everybody. When she stands her ground, Rory gets her way.

We're actually saying the same thing but with different interpretations.  I didn't mean Logan made up facts but that he forced his perceptions of the facts on Rory.   You say Logan knows his positions (his opinions, his own mind) and that Rory doesn't.  We saw Logan do this several times to Rory but the one that bothers me most is after the bridesmaid incident.  Rory was upset and confused and understandably wasn't sure what to think until Logan stepped in with his questions and guided Rory to forgiveness and going home with him.  Logan never bothers to find out how Rory feels about something or lets her figure things out for herself.  But then she treats Logan badly because she hasn't worked through her feelings, and Logan blames her for not forgiving him even though he pushed her into it until it's wiped away when Logan has his accident.

[JayInChicago]

I visited a friend who is doing a rewatch, and we watched Not As Cute As Pushkin.

 

i don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but man does the life and death brigade class-interrupting incident bug the shit out of me. Rory could have shut that all down right there, but deep down she likes the attention from Logan!  Logan seems almost sociopathic in that episode. 

 

Also man I I were that prospie student getting constant lectures about benches I also would have been driven to drink.

[tarotx]

Some of this stuff should be taken to different threads. At this point I'm the only one who should be talking about Logan here ;)

@shron17 when I get home to my laptop I'll debate about this in either the Rory and Logan Thread or the All episode talk thread.

[voiceover]

On 9/3/2017 at 10:39 AM, FictionLover said:

We all know ASP decided to assassinate one of the most beloved characters to negotiate her contact. 

Okay.  I feel like I got bits & pieces of this over the years, but it just left me confused.

Could someone fill me in on the whole backstory of ASP & what happened to Luke?  Was this pure fan spec, or did she admit as much in interviews?

[Frelling Tralk]

On 14/09/2017 at 7:51 PM, chitowngirl said:

I would have hated it if ASP would have ended the series with those 4 words. Her grandparents, Richard especially, would have been so disappointed.  They would have seen the past coming right back.  Now ending the revival that way makes it somewhat interesting. Rory is an adult who has done things and staying in Stars Hollow to raise her child could be interesting if they wanted to do more with future episodes.  Rory running the paper; raising a baby as a single mom, but with the father perhaps in the picture but torn between his two worlds.  

I agree, it seems like such a downer to end the original series on Rory being pregnant just after finishing college, and leaving the audience to imagine how it would tear the family apart with Richard and Emily blaming Lorelai for it. I much prefer the season 7 finale that we did get with Rory heading off to a bright future, Lorelai's parents finally having some nice words for her, and ending on Lorelai and Rory at the coffee shop to bring it all full circle 

I think that Rory's storylines in general worked better when they had to be moved to ten years later actually, the original plan for her to be struggling in her early 20's to establish herself in journalism was far more powerful when it had to be reworked into her feeling like a failure at 32 after the future full of promise never materialised 

Lorelai's storyline suffered the most from being deleyed until the revival imo, because it was hard to imagine that the subject of marriage hadn't come up in ten years after it was such a deal breaker in season 6, same with Lorelai only bringing up kids as a possibility when she was in her late 40's, that was a case where you could absolutely tell that those storylines were originally meant to air in season 7/8

[FictionLover]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:42 AM, Frelling Tralk said:

 

Lorelai's storyline suffered the most from being deleyed until the revival imo, because it was hard to imagine that the subject of marriage hadn't come up in ten years after it was such a deal breaker in season 6, same with Lorelai only bringing up kids as a possibility when she was in her late 40's, that was a case where you could absolutely tell that those storylines were originally meant to air in season 7/8

Totally agree. This could have been understandable a year later but 10 years made the couple look down right pathetic! Some things she should have changed to suit the timeline better.

[andromeda331]

I was thinking about the four final words again. I don't like at 22 Rory would have graduated college and accidentally gotten pregnant. It is such a downer ending. Rory leaving Stars Hollow at the end of season seven was a much better one. Off she goes on her very first newspaper job and it was so optimistic. Its not that optimistic at 32 after Rory barely tried as a writer and hasn't really done anything in the ten years since graduating accidentally getting pregnant. I have a problem with Rory "accidentally" getting pregnant. Yes, it happens all the time. But for Rory that's been sore point her entire life, the source of her grandparents and mother's never ending fight, and all the problems it caused. I can't see Rory ever accidentally forgetting birth control no matter what age. I can't see her ever wanting her own child born under similar circumstances. Its like that episode where Lorelai thinks she might be pregnant and suddenly knows nothing about birth control or pregnancy tests. It made zero sense for Lorelai to forget and it makes zero sense for Rory. 

[Crs97]

Wait, we weren't supposed to diagnose pregnancies by whether we wanted to eat an apple?

[Katy M]

50 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I can't see Rory ever accidentally forgetting birth control no matter what age.

Did they say she forgot it? Or did a condom break?  Or the pill fail? 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Wait, we weren't supposed to diagnose pregnancies by whether we wanted to eat an apple?

My doctor is so old fashioned he made me do a urine test!

[clack]

Of Rory's actual boyfriends (Dean, Jess, Logan, and Paul) and potential boyfriends (Tristan and Marty), none strike me as an ideal match. Dean isn't smart enough, Jess is too damaged, Logan too superficial, Tristan too obnoxious, Marty too bland. (Paul is a non-entity).

A proper fit for Rory would have involved someone with Marty's temperament and Jess's literary passion. Someone to challenge her on an intellectual level, but to be there for her in ways that Christopher was never able to do.

Logan was Rory's Christopher -- charming but elusive. If there is a Luke somewhere for her, she has yet to meet him.

[elang4]

39 minutes ago, clack said:

Of Rory's actual boyfriends (Dean, Jess, Logan, and Paul) and potential boyfriends (Tristan and Marty), none strike me as an ideal match. Dean isn't smart enough, Jess is too damaged, Logan too superficial, Tristan too obnoxious, Marty too bland. (Paul is a non-entity).

A proper fit for Rory would have involved someone with Marty's temperament and Jess's literary passion. Someone to challenge her on an intellectual level, but to be there for her in ways that Christopher was never able to do.

Logan was Rory's Christopher -- charming but elusive. If there is a Luke somewhere for her, she has yet to meet him.

I feel like season 6 and revival Jess could have been Rory's Luke. But I feel maybe by that time that Jess was actually too good for her.

[Taryn74]

30 minutes ago, elang4 said:

But I feel maybe by that time that Jess was actually too good for her.

Say it again for the ones in the back, louder this time.

[chitowngirl]

JESS WAS ACTUALLY TOO GOOD FOR HER!!!!!!

Season 1 Dean was well read (Jack Kerouac & Jane Austen); came from a big city, so probably knew a thing or two; and was familiar with movies (Rosemary's Baby). It was season 2 Dean that got changed. Dean was now a small town boy (because nothing can compare to NYC) who was possessive and broody.

[hippielamb]

On 9/15/2017 at 10:35 AM, JayInChicago said:

I visited a friend who is doing a rewatch, and we watched Not As Cute As Pushkin.

 

i don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but man does the life and death brigade class-interrupting incident bug the shit out of me. Rory could have shut that all down right there, but deep down she likes the attention from Logan!  Logan seems almost sociopathic in that episode. 

 

Also man I I were that prospie student getting constant lectures about benches I also would have been driven to drink.

Rory was the worst tour guide ever. She didn't bother to show Anna (was that her name?) any fun spots to balance out the stuffyness of hanging out in libraries and blah blah blah about the bench. She even had to call her 30 something mom to get ideas over where the girl would go for fun. Most college kids would know without asking an adult. 

On 9/30/2017 at 4:30 PM, Katy M said:

Did they say she forgot it? Or did a condom break?  Or the pill fail? 

I'm going with they didn't use a condom. If it happened during their wild night together, they were both a little tipsy and reckless. 

[tarotx]

Logan was far from superficial. He could challenge Rory on an intellectual level and they were never bored. He also encouraged her and supported her. 

Imo their issue was that they both needed each other's stability so that when they felt the other's instability things get rocky. Because of a lack of communication. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by tarotx

[AsYouWish]

Logan may be bright, but to me he's still very superficial. As ASP said, he and Rory don't exactly have deep conversations. He's also a cocky, entitled, condescending, smug, smirky, hedonistic party boy who seems to have an alcohol problem and disrespects most women he's been "involved" with. I always felt he represented the worst of who Rory could be and the world she might choose to be a part of. 

As for Jess, I agree that he was too damaged as a teen to have a healthy relationship, but he seemed far from damaged in S6 and the revival. You could argue he was the most healthy and well-adjusted of all the characters, though that's mostly because everyone else was such a mess! 

Quote

If there is a Luke somewhere for her, she has yet to meet him.

Since this is the UO thread, I'll admit that I think Rory/Jess seemed to be a lot more compatible to me than Luke/Lorelai. They were more intellectually compatible, had a lot more romantic chemistry and just seemed to get and understand each other better than LL did for most of the series and the revival. LL could have been great, but in reality they were written as having a relationship that fell somewhere between flat and tepid and outright dysfunctional. Jess and Rory were dysfunctional during their brief relationship too, but unlike LL, they were very young, and Jess matured out of some of the issues that seemed to doom their high school relationship while LL both just became more flawed and less able to communicate as they aged. 

But as others have pointed out, Jess got to do much of his growth off screen. If ASP had had more time with him, she probably would have ruined him too. And as many of you have said, Rory regressed to the point where maybe she and Logan deserve each other. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by AsYouWish

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 10/1/2017 at 2:58 PM, Taryn74 said:

Say it again for the ones in the back, louder this time.

As a person who was always Team Anyone-But-Jess, I absolutely agree that by the time we saw Jess in the revival, and probably even in the later seasons, Jess was just plain too good for Rory.  He had grown and matured while she was stagnant in some areas and had regressed in others.  

[MatildaMoody]

I am finishing up "Welcome to the Dollhouse." I am not sure if I missed this before, but the look smug look on Mitchum's face when he is telling Richard what he said to Rory, was perfect. I see why he was cast as Logan's dad. Logan, has worn that exact same smug smirk so many times throughout the show. It's amazing that I never saw why those two were cast as father and son before. It was only a split second, but now I feel like I have to suffer through some of the worst episodes of the show just to note this particular casting choice.

[AsYouWish]

Quote

but the look smug look on Mitchum's face when he is telling Richard what he said to Rory, was perfect. I see why he was cast as Logan's dad. Logan, has worn that exact same smug smirk so many times throughout the show. It's amazing that I never saw why those two were cast as father and son before. It was only a split second, but now I feel like I have to suffer through some of the worst episodes of the show just to note this particular casting choice.

You're so right! The identical smirks does make them perfectly cast as TV's most maddeningly smug, cocky father-son duo. Since we're in the UO section, I will embrace the spirit of the thread and admit that I prefer Mitchum to Logan and have a little more respect for him than I do for his son. I am prepared to be a party of one on that one. It's also interesting to note that Mitchum was, in the opinion of many here and based on the revival maybe even in the opinion of the Palladinos as well, correct about how Rory was not well suited to be a journalist. As long as I'm letting my UO flag fly: Lorelai would have been a better reporter than Rory - she's more curious, determined, resourceful, engaging, plucky and nosy than her daughter :-)  

Rewatching always yields new unpopular opinions, and even though I still ship Rory/Jess, mine is that single Rory is my favorite Rory. I understand why people say Season 4 is where some of her worst flaws begin to shine through that ostensibly angelic exterior, but I like seeing her have to find her way at Yale and no longer being the revered golden child of Stars Hollow. Weakly running back to Dean, who reminded her of when she felt more secure and adored, made sense even though I didn't enjoy watching it.  While watching season 4 again I'm also thinking that it might have been nice to see Rory end up with Marty down the road. He's similar to her in important ways but different as well, and quirky, random and endearingly strange enough to fit into the Gilmore Girls' world. I'm ignoring how they ruined Marty later on because, as we've established here, ignoring a lot about the later seasons is essential to maintaining our affection for this show.  

I'm also liking Lorelai a lot in Season 4. It may even be her best season, in my opinion. Is it because there's a little less codependency with Rory this season now that her daughter is away at school? (Even though said daughter returns home constantly) I love seeing Lorelai working towards opening her own inn. It's a nice reminder that despite Lorelai's many flaws that make her character so infuriating sometimes, she has a lot of grit, determination and a very strong work ethic - unlike the seemingly less flawed Rory! Luke and Lorelai have a lot of great scenes this season too, and while their chemistry and ability to magically connect still isn't as strong as I felt it was back in Season 1, it's certainly a lot better than it was while they were finally dating.  Of course, for every one thing I love about Gilmore Girls there will invariably be one thing that irritates me, and I have to mention how much I hate the Nicole thing. A quickie impulsive marriage? So very, very, very not Luke. Luke, by his own admission, is too cautious and sometimes too slow to act and process, not too impulsive and reckless! And then Luke and Nicole dating again for literally no reason? Oh, GG writers, you really like to see my eyes roll, don't you? :-) 

Overall, I have to say that I love Season 4 more every time I watch it. It's up there with Seasons 1 and 2 on my list of favorites. And you all know my severe allergy to all things Huntzberger, so I am really enjoying this last Logan-free season while I can! 

Edited October 21, 2017 by AsYouWish

[theotherhalliwell]

I've watched this whole series in a relatively short period of time and am giddy about finally being able to come over here to talk about it! 

I feel like I need to preface this post with an apology, because I have some opinions that seem unpopular even in the unpopular opinions thread. I really don't mean to offend anyone and am just excited to find other Gilmore Girls lovers no matter what your specific opinions are. 

The most outrageously unpopular is that I loved the revival.  I really loved it, even when compared to the more golden era of the series. Once the DVDs are released, I have a feeling it'll be one of my most frequently rewatched seasons of the show. I didn't mind how messed up the characters were, because to some degree they always were, and the revival finally seemed to face it and embrace it rather than shying away from the deeper, darker aspects of their characters.  I still love all three Gilmore Girls anyway. I may love them even more after the later seasons and revival, because they feel more complex and real to me now than they used to. I actually felt for Rory more in the revival than I had for several seasons. Mortifying confession: in some ways, I am Rory, with similar attributes and alarmingly similar failings as well. I even share her love for Logan. I think Alexis Bledel did a terrific job showing how fragile and lost the character was before finally starting to get it together.

And wait, there's more! I was always relatively neutral on Luke and Lorelai's relationship as a general rule, but their wedding scene in the revival was one of the most moving moments of the series to me. I bought how terrible they are at communicating, with neither of them wanting to risk losing each other again by possibly saying something that will anger and hurt each other and both being such obstinate, independent people who weren't used to sharing their lives with another person. I enjoyed Lorelai doing the wilderness program, and I think the fact that it seemed so out of character for her was the whole point.  The Gilmores were lost and trying to redefine themselves. I am also the one human being who didn't hate the musical and found a few parts of it funny, but it may be that as a Sutton Foster fan I was predisposed to view those scenes as better than they actually were.

I came into the revival a moderate Logan/Rory fan who enjoyed their relationship during the series but was glad it ended in Season 7, but I left the revival a huge Rory/Logan fan, the kind who wants to read and write angsty and fluffy fanfic about them and squeals (loudly) with my best friend's daughter upon learning that she too is a Rory/Logan supporter. For the record, she's 14, and I'm in my mid-40s. And she's more mature! Like a couple of other people clarified, it's not that I condone their choices in AYITL or even that I would think too highly of either of these characters if they existed in reality.  But they're fictional, which I've decided means I can feel less guilty about loving them as much as I do. The revival, more than possibly any other part of the series, convinced me that they really do love each other and have a deeper connection than I'd realized. ASP wasn't intending for us to want them together even after the sordid arrangement of the revival, but they touched my soul.  I must have a very strange soul! 

I enjoy Jess, but more as Luke's nephew than as Rory's love interest. Even if there are more episodes, I don't want to see him as the equivalent of Rory's Luke or sit there pining in hopes that Rory deigns to one day give him a chance This actually doesn't have much to do with loving Rory and Logan. I just honestly didn't see Rory as having any romantic interest in Jess in the revival or even in later seasons of the show. (This is different from the Luke/Lorelai setup: earlier seasons of Gilmore Girls showed that a part of Lorelai was always interested in Luke even before she allowed herself to acknowledge it and act on it). Rory rejected Jess's invitation to run away with him in S4, she visited him in S6 only to get back at Logan and then stopped kissing Jess after immediately realizing she was still deeply in love with Logan, and the revival made it seem as if Rory and Jess had been only casually in touch over the years. Their revival scenes read as completely platonic to me. At this point, there just feels like such a lack of balance,  with Rory not showing any romantic interested in him for so many years now that I really just want to see Jess move forward with a different person. I don't even see Rory and Jess as sharing anything in common anymore other than both loving books. 

Almost all of the critiques of this show are valid, but I love GG anyway. Maybe I'm still basking in the glow of having finally discovered it over the past year, but if I had to pick just one show to watch for the rest of my life, I think Gilmore Girls would be the one. I love almost every character and all the seasons. 

I feel like I had even more to share, but I've already probably made the most unpopular confessions ever, so I'll give you all a break and stop talking for the time being! 

Edited October 23, 2017 by theotherhalliwell

[FictionLover]

42 minutes ago, theotherhalliwell said:

 

And wait, there's more! I was always relatively neutral on Luke and Lorelai's relationship as a general rule, but their wedding scene in the revival was one of the most moving moments of the series to me. I bought how terrible they are at communicating, with neither of them wanting to risk losing each other again by possibly saying something that will anger and hurt each other and both being such obstinate, independent people who weren't used to sharing their lives with another person. 

As an avid LL fan, I can agree with this to a degree. It could have been so much more fulfilling  if when luke was pouring his heart out to Lorelai admit his part in their separate lives from the way he pushed Lorelai away when he found out about April. Instead, it was all about the other men and women in their lives. The fact that they had not had them discuss having children over nine years was a poor choice. They could’ve had them just not be able to conceive, it would’ve been a lot more believable. This couple’s story was disappointing to me and I think a lot of other fans of them. I also thought it was weird when Lorelai  told the counselor she wasn’t married because she just didn’t like to do things like her mother. That didn’t matter in the past, she wanted to get married to Luke badly. So to me this was poor continuity.

It’s nice that you enjoyed it so much, I really wanted to.

[JayInChicago]

I’m considering giving the revival another watch based on the last two posts here!

 

one thing that cannot be understated is a lot of fans’ over the top (myself included) basically love/hate relationship with Amy Sherman palladino. I almost wish Amy hadn’t made herself so connected with the show, but that’s just ASP. I want to rewatch and just take it as it is—no thoughts about the palladinos.

[Anela]

I had planned to re-watch it sooner, but I haven't been in the mood. I'm going through the main series again, as I do other things, so I'll probably tag it on at the end. I can't believe it's been almost a year!! 

[nclpllm]

In my opinion, I didn't see any indication that Rory saw Luke as her father-figure, or that she preferred him to Chris. Yes, she did tell Chris to stay away from Lorelai, but it wasn't with an added, 'because he's more of a dad to me than you've ever been.' Chris was definitely a disappointment of a dad, I won't argue that. Although, I don't fully fault him for letting Lorelai have her way. That'll be Part 2 of my unpopular opinion. Lorelai wanted things her way, and she clearly didn't wanted to share Rory with anyone. See S2 when Chris had his act together and wanted Rory to visit and Lorelai didn't want to give up those 24-48 hours. 

But I digress.

The way I see it, Luke was a good friend who did nice things for Rory because he had a crush on her mom. And at times he crossed the line, like going after Dean after the breakup in S1. And his behavior toward Dean on the double date. And he was weird with Logan. Even Jess had to remind Luke whose guardian he was. 

I don't know if it was Alexis's acting, or the writing, or the directing, but if father-daughter is what they were going for, they didn't do a great job. Then again, that's how a lot of Rory's relationships with other people looked. They feel more strongly for her than she felt for them. Luke falls into this category. 

I don't think the writers were even pushing his paternal feelings it until S5, for conflict with Chris. Some site S1 when Rory told Lorelai she couldn't date Luke as a deterrent for them getting together. If Rory (and Lorelai, for that matter) thought of Luke as her father-figure, they could have sat down for a serious conversation about how he's there for them and Lorelai has feelings for him, then Rory might have agreed that he's really important to them and practically a dad to her and would love for them to be together. That didn't happen. 

In fanfiction land, it's gospel. I'm a skeptic. 

[elang4]

27 minutes ago, nclpllm said:

In my opinion, I didn't see any indication that Rory saw Luke as her father-figure, or that she preferred him to Chris. Yes, she did tell Chris to stay away from Lorelai, but it wasn't with an added, 'because he's more of a dad to me than you've ever been.' Chris was definitely a disappointment of a dad, I won't argue that. Although, I don't fully fault him for letting Lorelai have her way. That'll be Part 2 of my unpopular opinion. Lorelai wanted things her way, and she clearly didn't wanted to share Rory with anyone. See S2 when Chris had his act together and wanted Rory to visit and Lorelai didn't want to give up those 24-48 hours. 

But I digress.

The way I see it, Luke was a good friend who did nice things for Rory because he had a crush on her mom. And at times he crossed the line, like going after Dean after the breakup in S1. And his behavior toward Dean on the double date. And he was weird with Logan. Even Jess had to remind Luke whose guardian he was. 

I don't know if it was Alexis's acting, or the writing, or the directing, but if father-daughter is what they were going for, they didn't do a great job. Then again, that's how a lot of Rory's relationships with other people looked. They feel more strongly for her than she felt for them. Luke falls into this category. 

I don't think the writers were even pushing his paternal feelings it until S5, for conflict with Chris. Some site S1 when Rory told Lorelai she couldn't date Luke as a deterrent for them getting together. If Rory (and Lorelai, for that matter) thought of Luke as her father-figure, they could have sat down for a serious conversation about how he's there for them and Lorelai has feelings for him, then Rory might have agreed that he's really important to them and practically a dad to her and would love for them to be together. That didn't happen. 

In fanfiction land, it's gospel. I'm a skeptic. 

BIB: I don't agree with that. I think he cared a lot about Rory. He didn't do things for her and look out for her because he wanted Lorelai. That was why Luke was different to all the other guys imo. He cared about Rory, not just because he liked Lorelai.

[Katy M]

I'll agree that I don't think Rory preferred Luke to Chris.  I'll also agree that Luke being Rory's second father all her life was a retcon.  There was nothing to indicate that close of a relationship in the first season.  But, I can't agree that Luke was just nice to Rory because of Lorelei. I think that goes against Luke's character. 

[elang4]

42 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'll agree that I don't think Rory preferred Luke to Chris.  I'll also agree that Luke being Rory's second father all her life was a retcon.  There was nothing to indicate that close of a relationship in the first season.  But, I can't agree that Luke was just nice to Rory because of Lorelei. I think that goes against Luke's character. 

Exactly! Luke wouldn't be like that. He did stuff for Rory because he genuinely cared about her. They had their own relationship without Lorelai. I do think Luke is more of a father to Rory than Chris is though. Rory might not see it like that necessarily but I think she genuinely cares about him and I do think she has a closer relationship to him than Chris. She told Chris to stay away from her mom when she was with Luke. It showed she wanted her mom to be with Luke.

[Kohola3]

While the references admittedly came later, there were several that talked about gifts and special food for birthdays from Luke.  Since that was when Rory was a child, it's doubtful that Luke was trying to impress Lorelai at that point.  I think he paid a lot more attention to Rory on those occasions than Deadbeat Dad.  And I believe Rory was sincerely fond of Luke. She know Chris was a loser and knew that Luke was the better choice for her mother, thus the warning to butt out.

[elang4]

33 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

While the references admittedly came later, there were several that talked about gifts and special food for birthdays from Luke.  Since that was when Rory was a child, it's doubtful that Luke was trying to impress Lorelai at that point.  I think he paid a lot more attention to Rory on those occasions than Deadbeat Dad.  And I believe Rory was sincerely fond of Luke. She know Chris was a loser and knew that Luke was the better choice for her mother, thus the warning to butt out.

I agree. I just watched the episode in season 7 where Rory and Luke were talking about the presents he'd gotten her over the years. It shows he genuinely cared about her and he's not the kind of person who would try and buy affection. Yes, he may have liked Lorelai from the start but he would never use Rory like that. It's just not him. Whereas, with Chris, I could actually see him doing that. And he's her actual dad!! Chris' priority was wanting to be with Lorelai. Rory always came second to him.

[Kohola3]

Luke's gifts came from the heart.  Chris's gift were non-existent until he got rich and then the gifts were used to buy love and make up for shortcomings.  Two entirely different ways of caring.

[elang4]

3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Luke's gifts came from the heart.  Chris's gift were non-existent until he got rich and then the gifts were used to buy love and make up for shortcomings.  Two entirely different ways of caring.

I agree. 

[Guest]

Luke's gifts were total recon to me.  She was shocked that he remembered her 16th birthday and got her a balloon and made her a coffee cake.  If she had been getting these amazing gifts from him all these years, she wouldn't have been so surprised.

[elang4]

12 hours ago, deaja said:

Luke's gifts were total recon to me.  She was shocked that he remembered her 16th birthday and got her a balloon and made her a coffee cake.  If she had been getting these amazing gifts from him all these years, she wouldn't have been so surprised.

I don't remember her being surprised really. She had a lot on her mind that day so she probably wasn't thinking about what Luke would do and when she realised he'd made a fuss of her, she was happy.

[JAYJAY1979]

Luke and Lorelei...i never liked as a couple.  I wish they'd stayed friends instead of falling into the stupid trope of friends becoming a couple.

[Frelling Tralk]

I think that Luke saw Rory as a kind of daughter definitely, in the revival he was very proud of her article and printing it on the menu, he was very possessive of her around Dean in season 5, complaining that she had a great future ahead of her and Dean was holding her back. Ditto with getting very angry and upset when he caught her making out with Logan 

I don’t think that Rory ever really saw Luke as her father figure though, she liked him a lot for her mother and was rooting for them as a couple, but I never saw any indication that she saw Luke in a fatherly way. I think that Christopher was still the only man she saw as her father in spite of everything, even if she was very against her parents getting back together 

And I agree that the mention of birthday gifts in season 7 was a bit of a retcon, as was some other mention I seem to recall of Luke being there when Rory had chicken pox as a small child? According to season 1 Lorelai wasn’t even that close to Luke when Rory was younger, as she was completely unaware of his entire relationship with Rachel. In season 1 he was mostly just presented as the grumpy townie that Lorelai and Rory saw everyday at the coffee shop, and he was very self-conscious and awkward about it when telling Rory to sit at the table with the balloons and the cake that he made for her on her birthday. That scene doesn’t fit with how Rory should have actually been expecting a gift from Luke according to later canon

Edited November 15, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[Crs97]

Philosophically, must a person recognize you as a father figure in order for you actually to be a father figure?  Rory was surprised, but not terribly so, when he made her a cake and blew up balloons.  The way he told Lorelai that she didn't have to invite him to Rory's birthday party . . . I could be persuaded that he had been invited to her parties in the past and didn't particularly enjoy being around all the younger kids.  We saw him frequently be interested in what she was doing and excited for her when she succeeded.  As I recall, when she was upset he would try to cheer her up and frequently gave her pie or food. Didn't he give her his mother's necklace one year?  I bet Rory knew his phone number and would have felt okay calling him if she needed something.  Luke's was an extension of their home, and she felt very comfortable hanging out there without Lorelai.  He attended her graduation ceremonies.  I have no problem assuming he attended a lot of stuff she did.  I can conceive of Rory looking back on her childhood and realizing he was a constant in her life.  I have no issue with Lorelai describing him as "something of a father figure" in Rory's life.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Before he got together with Lorelai, Luke was a good friend of theirs and by the time they became a couple, Rory had already left the nest taking away the opportunity for Luke to be more than what she already considered him to be; A good friend. He did some sweet things for Rory growing up but it is a far cry from being a father figure. It takes more than than setting up a birthday spread to be a father figure. If anyone is considered, it'd be Richard. The one she went to when she couldn't depend on her mother. 

Luke doesn't have to be Rory's father figure to be important to her. He is just not more important to her than her father.

One of the things I love about Rory is her acceptance of who her father is. Or more precisely, not rushing to fill his role in her life. Her contentment of her relationship with Christopher can be used as a testimony of Lorelai's provision for her daughter. She provided for Rory even when she couldn't personally guarantee it. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Guest]

In season 2, when she was looking for a father figure for the debutante ball, Luke isn’t even mentioned in a “he’d never do this” type way. She jumps straight to Taylor or the mailman.

We never saw him attend anything of hers other than her high school graduation that I recall.

[tarotx]

Yeah I always saw it as Luke adoring Rory like the rest of Stars Hollow. Not as a father figure. Nor as someone interested in her mother. She was the town princess in many ways.

[elang4]

However, during her fall out with Lorelai, she went straight to Luke's. She could have gone to Lane's or Sookie's if she wanted to know how her mom was but she went to Luke's. Shows she was comfortable doing so and that she wanted to see him as well. I just liked the fact that Rory had a relationship with Luke despite her mom. They didn't just tolerate each other because Luke was dating Lorelai. They genuinely enjoyed each other's company. And I thought it was sweet that Rory seemed happy when Luke was asking about her Chilton graduation and how she told him she wanted him there. ?

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

2 minutes ago, elang4 said:

However, during her fall out with Lorelai, she went straight to Luke's.

That is not true. She went to her grandparents.

After a long time without contact, she went to Luke to get information about her mother as he was closest to Lorelai at the time. It was not to seek comfort or ask for advice for herself. She needed contact with someone close to Lorelai.

Lorelai's weekly lunches with Paris for the same reason wasn't because they were close or even friends, it was a means to an end. 

[elang4]

13 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

That is not true. She went to her grandparents.

After a long time without contact, she went to Luke to get information about her mother as he was closest to Lorelai at the time. It was not to seek comfort or ask for advice for herself. She needed contact with someone close to Lorelai.

Lorelai's weekly lunches with Paris for the same reason wasn't because they were close or even friends, it was a means to an end. 

I didn't mean straight after. I meant when she wanted to go back to Stars Hollow. I just meant that if she wanted to be close to her mom, she could have gone to Sookie or someone like that. Sookie would have welcomed her with open arms.

[Guest]

Going to her mom's fiance to discuss her mom doesn't make me think "father figure."  He was the one who she could approach easily in a public place.  If she'd wanted to see Sookie, she would have had to go to her house or the Inn (where she was likely to see Lorelai).  Lane wouldn't have many details on her mom's feelings, just general well being.

I realize everyone reads scenes differently.  I just don't see the father figure relationship, but I know others do.

[Anela]

56 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Yeah I always saw it as Luke adoring Rory like the rest of Stars Hollow. Not as a father figure. Nor as someone interested in her mother. She was the town princess in many ways.

I thought it was obvious that she cared for him a lot. She got angry at Jess when the whole town was on Luke's back for Jess' behaviour, for example. 

[glorie]

 "The closest male figure" in Rory's life is actually  Richard (as it was mentioned before). They are very close, they discuss about certain topics together, like books, she trusts him, she counts on him. Whenever she needs anything, she could ask him for help. They have very special and harmonious relationship.

Rory likes Luke. Rory knows, how much Luke loves Lorelai and how well he treats her mother. But Luke has no authority over Rory. When Max was engaged with Lorelai, he wanted to participate in decisions about Rory's life (he was also a teacher). And Rory liked Max too. She was looking forward to having Max as a stepfather. Luke on the other hand never interferes into decisions about Rory's life, he just helps and supports. They are good friends, but I don't see anything else.

As for Chris - I think, that Rory understands, that he will never "be capable" to be a (good) father to her and she takes him as he is. And she likes him to a degree too.

Edited November 15, 2017 by glorie

[Crs97]

Lorelai didn't say Luke was the father figure in Rory's life; in her letter she said he was a sort of father figure in Rory's life.  I can see evidence of that in the show and don't think she should be limited to just one.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, glorie said:

"The closest male figure" in Rory's life is actually  Richard...

Well, not for the first 16 years.  They only saw each other on an occasional holiday.  When they went to their first Friday Night Dinner, he even remarked how tall she was as if he hadn't seen her in quite some time.  Hardly qualifies as someone as a "male figure".  After that they certainly become close but he was certainly not a part of her upbringing at all.

[glorie]

13 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Well, not for the first 16 years.  They only saw each other on an occasional holiday.  When they went to their first Friday Night Dinner, he even remarked how tall she was as if he hadn't seen her in quite some time.  Hardly qualifies as someone as a "male figure".  After that they certainly become close but he was certainly not a part of her upbringing at all.

We could only speculate, who was close to Rory before the series started. Perhaps there was a male friend of Mia or an employee in the inn. Or perhaps a male teacher supported and encouraged Rory?

Yes, you are right. We are told, that Richard was not that much in Rory's life in the first 16 years, but neither were Chris or Luke.  Lorelai and Luke weren't that close in the past, she didn't even know about Rachel.  Lorelai and Rory were more or less just friendly customers for Luke in the past, I suppose.

Edited November 16, 2017 by glorie

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

16 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Well, not for the first 16 years.  They only saw each other on an occasional holiday.  When they went to their first Friday Night Dinner, he even remarked how tall she was as if he hadn't seen her in quite some time.  Hardly qualifies as someone as a "male figure".  After that they certainly become close but he was certainly not a part of her upbringing at all.

Richard was a part of her upbringing before Lorelai took her away and while he wasn't a constant in her life as he became later on, he was part of her life.

If the argument is that Luke had been in her life longer, which I disagree with as I posted above. It still didn't make Rory consider him as her rock like she did her grandfather.