S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[WireWrap]

I'm not disagreeing with you that she discusses her personal life. But, if she's not under a gag order, and there's an aspect of her custody agreement she doesn't want to discuss on camera, why is it a problem if she doesn't? Is she not allowed to make the call? For all the complaining that is done about Bethenny over sharing, it seems really odd that people are upset she's not using the show to rip her ex apart.

But the cameras were rolling when she was talking about it to Heather, Heathers comments were not out of the blue. In fact, Bethenny walked into Carole's election party talking about it and each time a new HW entered, she told them all about it. If she really could not "talk" about it (gag order), we would not have heard 1 word about it from Bethenny at all to anyone on camera but that is not the case, it is 1 of her main themes this season so far. Bethenny is saying to the viewer, "I can't talk about it" but then talks about it all the time. LOL

 

ETA....If she keeps talking about it she is well aware that she will be then asked about it. Bethenny is not new to how these shows work, if you bring it up on camera, it is then fair game for the others to talk about or ask questions. She knows this game well, after all, she is a master at it. JMO

Edited May 31, 2015 by WireWrap

[ZoloftBlob]

Again, if she isn't under a gag order, and people don't like hearing about her divorce... why is it a problem if she doesn't? That's my disconnect.

[WireWrap]

Again, if she isn't under a gag order, and people don't like hearing about her divorce... why is it a problem if she doesn't? That's my disconnect.

But she does talk about it all the dang time! With every HW, on every episode and in her TH comments! That is the "disconnect" for me. She brought up the subject of Bryn/custody to Heather, it was not the other way around!

[imjagain]

Again, if she isn't under a gag order, and people don't like hearing about her divorce... why is it a problem if she doesn't? That's my disconnect.

Because she is talking about her custody issues, and is only ACTING offended in her th in regards to Heather. She knows how to shut stuff down. The conversation was a2 way thing. Her th was a whole different animal.

As been said over and over the narrative is big bad Heather. Poor broken starting over Beth.

She knows what's going on, Beth knows in order for her to be the good guy there has to be a bad guy.

Problem is Beth is a sullen rude negative abrasive women who makes it very hard for people to like her.

[ZoloftBlob]

But she does talk about it all the dang time! With every HW, on every episode and in her TH comments! That is the "disconnect" for me. She brought up the subject of Bryn/custody to Heather, it was not the other way around!

 

So you want her to discuss her divorce more?

 

Heather raised a topic she didn't want to get into. I mean, the whole show is about drama between the participants. I have no doubt Heather doesn't care in the slightest about Bethenny's divorce woes and Bethenny doesn't care about Heather at all....

[Celia Rubenstein]

Heather was responding to what Bethenny told her and we were not privy to that whole conversation at all, then we hear Heather's partial response to Bethenny followed by Bethenny's TH. There was no TH from Heather to give the whole story.

 

Well, Heather may not have got a talking head.  But she did get to watch the episode and take her time crafting a written response.  Here is what she said in her blog.  It didn't really add much in my opinion.

 

Rushing into Carole’s results party to help set up, I was surprised to see Bethenny had already made it. I was happy she had, because she's often challenged with making dates due to her custody arrangements. Our talk about her custody of Bryn was a simple conversation to bring clarity to a topic she often discusses. I just didn't realize that only Bethenny can address it. I feel like there are a lot of unwritten rules with her. What you can ask, what you can say, how you can feel...it’s a little tough to navigate.

 

 

 

I still don't understand why Heather thinks it's her job to bring "clarity" to the situation.  That didn't even sound like what she was trying to do.  She didn't clarify shit imo.  She got confused about what Bethenny was saying, gave a useless opinion based on her misunderstanding, then gets her nose out of joint because her quasi advice went unappreciated.

 

I think Heather would find life with Bethenny much easier to navigate if she would stick to safe topics and stop trying to stir the pot by bringing up other people's hurt feelings, who Bethenny owes a car, and her court drama just to score airtime.

[QuinnM]

I still don't understand why Heather thinks it's her job to bring "clarity" to the situation. That didn't even sound like what she was trying to do. She didn't clarify shit imo. She got confused about what Bethenny was saying, gave a useless opinion based on her misunderstanding, then gets her nose out of joint because her quasi advice went unappreciated.

Maybe Bethenny doesn't want to talk about it with you, Heather. Maybe she doesn't feel a connection with you. Maybe your relentless hammering on a subject long after she's asked you to drop it means that she doesn't trust you. There seems to be an example of this every single episode. I suspect if Heather keeps up this aggressive shit that she'll end up on scary island.

[WireWrap]

Well, Heather may not have got a talking head.  But she did get to watch the episode and take her time crafting a written response.  Here is what she said in her blog.  It didn't really add much in my opinion.

 

 

I still don't understand why Heather thinks it's her job to bring "clarity" to the situation.  That didn't even sound like what she was trying to do.  She didn't clarify shit imo.  She got confused about what Bethenny was saying, gave a useless opinion based on her misunderstanding, then gets her nose out of joint because her quasi advice went unappreciated.

 

I think Heather would find life with Bethenny much easier to navigate if she would stick to safe topics and stop trying to stir the pot by bringing up other people's hurt feelings, who Bethenny owes a car, and her court drama just to score airtime.

Of course Heather could stick to only subjects that Bethenny brings up to her. OH, WAIT, That is exactly what she did ! LOL Maybe Bethenny could stop using her daughter/custody/homelessness/divorce in every episode to garner camera time and sympathy!  It's not going to happen though. LOL

Maybe Bethenny doesn't want to talk about it with you, Heather. Maybe she doesn't feel a connection with you. Maybe your relentless hammering on a subject long after she's asked you to drop it means that she doesn't trust you. There seems to be an example of this every single episode. I suspect if Heather keeps up this aggressive shit that she'll end up on scary island.

But Bethenny was the 1 that brought it up to Heather, not the other way around!

[Baltimore Betty]

Back to Sonja and the red jumpsuit...it was a throw back to the late 70's early 80's look that I am sure Lauren Hutton wore to Studio 54 back in the day...hard to wear then too.  It didn't do any favors for Sonja, she looked hippy in it.  Maybe one of the reasons her clothing line looks like a redux of that era is because that is when Sonja with a J really was the straw in the drink, the cats meow, the bees knees etc...she relates to that time as her golden era. 

 

I would like to know more about the Ramona/Mario take out dinner evening. Did she file for divorce at the time this was filmed?  Did she go back for one more shagging for closure? 

 

 

[missy jo]

Exactly, Wire Wrap! Heather was seeking to understand (i.e. clarify) what Bethenny was already telling her about.

 

I think that when Bethenny started talking, Heather should have started fake-snoring!

Edited June 1, 2015 by missy jo

[Celia Rubenstein]

Maybe Bethenny doesn't want to talk about it with you, Heather. Maybe she doesn't feel a connection with you. Maybe your relentless hammering on a subject long after she's asked you to drop it means that she doesn't trust you. There seems to be an example of this every single episode. I suspect if Heather keeps up this aggressive shit that she'll end up on scary island.

 

ITA.  Bethenny didn't bring up Luann or her car.  And she didn't bring up Kristin and her feelings.  Heather did.  There are other examples of Heather pushing it with Bethenny, one involving talking about Ramona IIRC.  I can't remember. Someone here posted about it.  It does seem like there is something in every episode.  

 

And you know what is strange - I don't think Heather is trying to be nasty.  She seems to really think this is a way to bond with Bethenny.  She just isn't sensing the temperature in the room ever.  She thought the car thing was funny - she kept laughing anyway.  And for some reason she actually thought Bethenny was going to be receptive to her message about Kristin.  She seems to think telling Bethenny she needs to fix her custody situation was great friendly advice.  Heather should have sensed the poor reception she was getting in all three of those instances and backed off.  But she is always so oblivious.  It's like when she has something on her mind, she won't take "no" for an answer.

 

That may work well for her in the business world, but in the world of the housewives, not so much.

[WireWrap]

Back to Sonja and the red jumpsuit...it was a throw back to the late 70's early 80's look that I am sure Lauren Hutton wore to Studio 54 back in the day...hard to wear then too.  It didn't do any favors for Sonja, she looked hippy in it.  Maybe one of the reasons her clothing line looks like a redux of that era is because that is when Sonja with a J really was the straw in the drink, the cats meow, the bees knees etc...she relates to that time as her golden era. 

 

I would like to know more about the Ramona/Mario take out dinner evening. Did she file for divorce at the time this was filmed?  Did she go back for one more shagging for closure? 

 

 

I think there were reports of him moving back into their apartment around that time as well. Something about him staying there and at a friends apartment. Anyone else remember reading that?

[motorcitymom65]

So you want her to discuss her divorce more?

Heather raised a topic she didn't want to get into. I mean, the whole show is about drama between the participants. I have no doubt Heather doesn't care in the slightest about Bethenny's divorce woes and Bethenny doesn't care about Heather at all....

I think I can say that no one wants Beth to talk about her divorce more than she does. Or her childhood. Or that she is homeless.

And from what we saw Heather didn't being up the custody deal. She asked a question of Beth about the "6 days" deal, apparently to understand something that Beth had just said. Beth answered "no" to Heathers question and Heather followed it up with, "oh, you had said you couldn't see her for 6 days". It is clear this was a conversation. Does anyone believe that Beth walked in and Heather sat her down and demanded that she explain her custody? Someone said on an earlier thread said that Heather had "demanded" Beth give Lu a car, so I guess anything is possible.

This is my only point. Beth talks about her custody deal all the time. It has been in the press a lot. She talked about it with her Realtor who she barely knows on the first episode. Lu knows enough about to say it is extremely "rigid". Dorinda said she has talked about it. Carole said she talks about it. Heather said she talks about it. If it is private, than stop fucking talking about it. My fathers illness was private to me and my family. If I had walked around talking about it all the time I would have expected for someone to inquire as to his illness. People would probe. Which is why I kept my fucking mouth shut. Bottom line is she doesn't like Heather and she doesn't want to bond with her. She doesn't want to provide an opportunity for them to find common ground.

Edited June 1, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[BeachyMum]

 

 

I think that when Bethenny started talking, Heather should have started fake-snoring!

LOL! First she dismisses her with a wave of the hand and says "I grow tired" turns her head away and then goes into a fake snore.  

Edited June 1, 2015 by BeachyMum

[QuinnM]

Does anyone believe that Beth walked in and Heather sat her down and demanded that she explain her custody? Someone said on an earlier thread said that Heather had "demanded" Beth give Lu a car, so I guess anything is possible.

What I see is Heather launching an inquisition every time Bethenny says something. She is grilling Bethenny on every subject. When some one says I don't want to go into it, then polite, caring people respect that. Heather just keeps hammering her with questions. All of the answers are I don't want to go into it, never mind, it's fine. Unfortunately Heather is deaf and doesn't realize that Bethenny doesn't want to talk about. So she just keeps at her until Bethenny snaps at her. Then she acts all hurt cuz she was just trying to be nice.

No Heather, if you were nice you would respect Bethenny's request. I'll watch for the next one. And there will be a next one because Heather is a bitch and has discovered that Bethenny's hot button.

[Mozelle]

What I see is Heather launching an inquisition every time Bethenny says something. She is grilling Bethenny on every subject. When some one says I don't want to go into it, then polite, caring people respect that. Heather just keeps hammering her with questions. All of the answers are I don't want to go into it, never mind, it's fine. Unfortunately Heather is deaf and doesn't realize that Bethenny doesn't want to talk about. So she just keeps at her until Bethenny snaps at her. Then she acts all hurt cuz she was just trying to be nice.

No Heather, if you were nice you would respect Bethenny's request. I'll watch for the next one. And there will be a next one because Heather is a bitch and has discovered that Bethenny's hot button.

 

And when did Bethenny tell Heather that she doesn't want to discuss the "6 days"/custody misunderstanding? They didn't show that. What they did show was Bethenny in a TH, well after the filming of that scene, be snarky. Bethenny did no kind of snapping at Heather while at Carole's.

 

Bethenny was legitimately rude some episodes back when Heather thought to mention the lack of a birthday invite for Kristen, but that reaction has somehow jumped episodes to include that Bethenny didn't want to go into a conversation about custody of Bryn. Bethenny made no request of Heather to not talk about it. The quick splice to Bethenny's TH in that scene doesn't mean that it's what Heather experienced with Bethenny while in Carole's home. 

[breezy424]

In other words, if there's no gag order, then Bethenny found the question too personal. What's the problem? What you're saying is perfectly reasonable, that she might not want to go there because of the divorce. Why is she wrong to make that call?

 

 

Maybe Bethenny doesn't want to talk about it with you, Heather. Maybe she doesn't feel a connection with you. Maybe your relentless hammering on a subject long after she's asked you to drop it means that she doesn't trust you. There seems to be an example of this every single episode. I suspect if Heather keeps up this aggressive shit that she'll end up on scary island.

 

 

What I see is Heather launching an inquisition every time Bethenny says something. She is grilling Bethenny on every subject. When some one says I don't want to go into it, then polite, caring people respect that. Heather just keeps hammering her with questions. All of the answers are I don't want to go into it, never mind, it's fine. Unfortunately Heather is deaf and doesn't realize that Bethenny doesn't want to talk about. So she just keeps at her until Bethenny snaps at her. Then she acts all hurt cuz she was just trying to be nice.

No Heather, if you were nice you would respect Bethenny's request. I'll watch for the next one. And there will be a next one because Heather is a bitch and has discovered that Bethenny's hot button.

 

When did Beth make any request to Heather to not talk about her custody at the party?  If Beth didn't want to discuss it, then she should have said something right then.  She didn't.  She made 'comments' in her TH after the fact.  She also continued the conversation by talking about not being able to see her daughter whenever she wanted to. 

 

Add to that, the conversation we saw had Heather responding to a statement Beth made about her custody.

 

Even in her blog, Beth eased up on what she said in her TH:  Heather is very inquisitive and likes to get deep quickly. She is just curious, concerned, and a little touchy feely at times. I believe it comes from a good place. I am just guarded and not always trusting. As Dorinda says, I'm a squirrel, so really fast moves make me run. Custody conversation is very personal, and I was just not there, nor will I probably ever be.

[motorcitymom65]

What I see is Heather launching an inquisition every time Bethenny says something. She is grilling Bethenny on every subject. When some one says I don't want to go into it, then polite, caring people respect that. Heather just keeps hammering her with questions. All of the answers are I don't want to go into it, never mind, it's fine. Unfortunately Heather is deaf and doesn't realize that Bethenny doesn't want to talk about. So she just keeps at her until Bethenny snaps at her. Then she acts all hurt cuz she was just trying to be nice.

No Heather, if you were nice you would respect Bethenny's request. I'll watch for the next one. And there will be a next one because Heather is a bitch and has discovered that Bethenny's hot button.

I don't disagree with the description of someone dropping a topic as requested as being a polite, caring person. As far as I have seen, Beth has requested Heather to drop a topic that was not to Beth's liking on 2 occasions. The first was when Heather was defending Ramona to Beth and she loudly said "can we just stop because I don't really care". Heather said Ok and didn't say another word about it, right? Then there was the deal with Kristen not being invited to the party. Beth pretended to snooze and Heather asked if she was curious as to why Kristen was hurt. Beth said "no". The remainder of that discussion was fueled entirely by Beth, although Heather was certainly taking part. So Beth asked her to drop a topic twice and she did it. Sounds like a nice, polite person. She certainly never asked her to drop the custody conversation, but was engaging in it with stories of regular moms who can see their kids anytime they want.

[breezy424]

Nevermind

Edited June 1, 2015 by breezy424

[imjagain]

I don't disagree with the description of someone dropping a topic as requested as being a polite, caring person. As far as I have seen, Beth has requested Heather to drop a topic that was not to Beth's liking on 2 occasions. The first was when Heather was defending Ramona to Beth and she loudly said "can we just stop because I don't really care". Heather said Ok and didn't say another word about it, right? Then there was the deal with Kristen not being invited to the party. Beth pretended to snooze and Heather asked if she was curious as to why Kristen was hurt. Beth said "no". The remainder of that discussion was fueled entirely by Beth, although Heather was certainly taking part. So Beth asked her to drop a topic twice and she did it. Sounds like a nice, polite person. She certainly never asked her to drop the custody conversation, but was engaging in it with stories of regular moms who can see their kids anytime they want.

Thank you for always being very clear, I get muddled in my statements at times.

How sweet of Beth to not care one bit why Kristen was hurt.

Edited June 1, 2015 by imjagain

[ScoobieDoobs]

IMO, Ramona in the past would have ripped the applicant a new one and would not have found it funny.

 

Hey, that bit was funny.  I'd so much prefer more Moaner & less depressing, snotty Bethenny.  Way, way, way less -- pretty please, Satan Andy?  Eh, I know that ain't gonna happen cuz of that fuckin' million bucks they threw at her.  Oh man, I'm really hoping it ain't gonna be another 10 eps filled with Bethenny's incessant whining & crying.  I.  Just.  Can't.

 

even though she/Bethenny brought the subject up to Heather, she doesn't want to talk about it on camera? Really? And Yes, I do believe that Carol was told or asked to delete the tweet to keep to the narrative TPTB have set for the season because she is friends with both women and that carries weight as to believability of what Heather said in her blog and goes against what Bethenny claimed in hers.

 

 

My theory is this is rich Bethenny wanting to control everything cuz she's rich now & fully expects to do that.  I would not be at all surprised if she routinely refused to answer questions posed to her in TH's.  She'll answer what she wants to answer & discuss topics she wants to discuss when she wants to discuss them.  That's the crap deal Satan Andy came up with for her.  Well, it's certainly a sweet deal for her, but it's crappy for him & for us, since this show sucks so badly now.  It's no coincidence that Bethenny is getting edit which never catches her off-guard.  She's calling the shots.  Hey, this is Bethenny's world.  And I'm fast losing interest.

 

it seems really odd that people are upset she's not using the show to rip her ex apart.

 

Not upset -- maybe surprised.  And she is doing that indirectly by whining & crying about being homeless with her millions.  Might have been at least entertaining to see her rip him apart.  And I wouldn't blame her one bit.  It would certainly be better than watching the fucking crying & whining that I can't take seeing anymore.

[aradia22]

Sick Dorinda sounds exactly the same as healthy Dorinda. Why does she sound so stuffed up? 

 

I don't believe that Mario wants to reconcile with Ramona, at least not to the extent she's describing it.

 

Oh, lord. Carole's campaign for her condo board? I can't.

 

Does anyone think Kristen might be a little more open to Sonja because she's hoping for a modeling job?

 

Judgey. Heather so doesn't want Sonja to succeed. And I know she has a business but cool it on your level of expertise, Heather.

 

A Maleficent tattoo on her hip? No, Heather. No.

 

I don't think we got a good sense of how early Bethenny showed up at Carole's/how long she stayed so I don't blame her for leaving to go pick up Brynn. 

 

Even putting Carole with Bethenny doesn't make me like Carole. But it helps a little.

 

I know Heather likes caviar but that seems like a lot to load up for one serving.

 

I'm cool with Heather and Ramona fighting because I don't like either of them. Luanne vs. Ramona was also interesting because Dorinda had to decide who to trust.

[LotusFlower]

I think that when Bethenny started talking, Heather should have started fake-snoring!

Oh please, please, please make this happen! A la Vicki G. - a loud snore!

Can you imagine how Bethenny would react? She'd be offended as all hell.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I doubt Bethenny would be offended at all. I think she would just blow it off and be glad she was getting a little break from Heather thinking that they are much better friends than they really are for a little while.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I enjoyed Dorinda teasing Heather, Make sure you get some caviar!

[hottesthw]

I believe the divorce and custody case were joined in the NY Supreme Court. That's how it is supposed to work. NY law does not permit a separate case just for custody in the Family Court if you have a divorce action going on in the Supreme Court. It would lead to wasted, duplicative efforts on the parts of both court and counsel so it is prohibited. So the cases are unlikely to be as separate as you suggest.

Bethenny would be wise to construe any gag order prohibiting her from talking about the court case as covering both aspects of the case, even though the matter of custody had already been settled. So I can understand her wanting to avoid participating in a discussion about her a need to "fix" something, even something related to custody, since it goes dangerously near discussion of potential court proceedings and may lead to claims she violated the gag order.

IIRC all Carole said was that Bethenny talked about her custody matters "all the time." But I think some of the finer distinctions of the law are wasted on Carole. This is a woman who didn't know she had a legal obligation to meet a writing deadline in a contract she signed. I seriously doubt she has any knowledge of the legal impact of a gag order on what Bethenny can say or what might be construed as a violation.

Carole actually deleted that tweet, I believe. So I think someone pointed out to her that she was talking out her ass, and she wisely took down her ignorant comment. She should really stick to talking about what she knows about. Co-owning dogs and hawking her boyfriend's Chef Baby Green's salad pictures on instagram, stuff like that.

Bethenny needs to realize then that those cameras in her face are actually filming her. We don't need Carole to confirm anything for us as we've seen ourselves Bethenny discuss her child issues on tv.

[hottesthw]

Even in her blog, Beth eased up on what she said in her TH: Heather is very inquisitive and likes to get deep quickly. She is just curious, concerned, and a little touchy feely at times. I believe it comes from a good place. I am just guarded and not always trusting. As Dorinda says, I'm a squirrel, so really fast moves make me run. Custody conversation is very personal, and I was just not there, nor will I probably ever be.

Which is hysterical coming from her. As if she is someone who has ever respected someone else's personal issues or boundaries. Wasn't she one of many who always touted that if you're on a reality show nothing is sacred and everything in your life is up for grabs?

[ryebread]

And from what we saw Heather didn't being up the custody deal. She asked a question of Beth about the "6 days" deal, apparently to understand something that Beth had just said. Beth answered "no" to Heathers question and Heather followed it up with, "oh, you had said you couldn't see her for 6 days". It is clear this was a conversation. Does anyone believe that Beth walked in and Heather sat her down and demanded that she explain her custody?

 

I don't. But it's also possible someone else in the room asked about Bryn and Beth might've dramatically responded that it feels like she's not going to see her kid for 6 days. Because after she picks her up from school, Bryn's going to Jason's for a long weekend. Then Heather weighed in and off to the races we go. Who knows how it went down but for me, it didn't even matter who started the conversation, it was about intent and perception.

 

Heather:  So what is the visitation? So 6 days you don't have her? (Beth: "No.") Oh, cuz I thought that when you said it's like 6 days I don't get to see her I'm like, "Well that's not fair, you gotta fix that."

 

Bethenny:  So what is it with your kid's hearing loss?  So 6 doctors and no diagnosis? (Heather: "No.") Oh, cuz I thought when you said 6 doctors and we've got no idea what's going on I'm like, "Well that's not right, you gotta fix that."

 

Like, "Geez, you're missing something, dumbass.  Work harder.  Fix that."  But I've always thought Heather and Bethenny have fiendish agendas. ;-) 

 

Both women would probably say that custody of Bryn and Jax's health problems are the most "personal raw negative upsetting things" in their lives.  If someone you don't like comments on that, I can see one or the other getting cranky.  Neither one of them like each other.  Understandable considering that they have to withstand each other for longer than 42 minutes a week.

[quaintirene]

I was interested to see what would happen with Heather and Bethenny this season.  I'm sure AC thought the inevitable clash would help ratings.  But sadly he was mistaken.

 

By the way I seem to remember a time when the Ho'Wives did stuff.  Like horse-shows and visits to other people's houses and cooking-lessons and redecorating apartments and walking through Central Park in the fall.  Now we're treated to scene after scene of these poor women schlepping through an endless round of bars and restaurants and hotels.  They don't even shop any more!   All with the inevitable name-check at the beginning.  That's what's destroying the ratings I think!  They must feel like hamsters on a wheel.  And it shows.

[ottergirl]

 Bottom line is she doesn't like Heather and she doesn't want to bond with her. She doesn't want to provide an opportunity for them to find common ground.

 

I mentioned this in the "First Looks" thread, but on the first look for this week, I saw something funny.  In the "Previously On" section, they showed a clip of Bethenny saying in a talking head "I don't have a good reason for not liking Heather, I just find her annoying."

 

1.  That was not previously on!! We've never seen that clip before - it's the first time Bethenny has admitted any of those things - that she doesn't like Heather, that she finds her annoying, that there's no good reason.

 

2.  She was wearing a different outfit in this talking head than in any other one this season.  Dorinda last week tweeted that she was getting filmed for new talking head segments.  Looks like Bethenny did one also, and they ret-conned it in, I guess to "explain" what everyone else has noticed, that Bethenny is being nasty to Heather for no good reason.

 

3.  It's also kind of funny to me that Bethenny basically took the storyline that most anti-Heather people use on this forum and others, like Vulture.  Her comment reads like a summation of a lot of anti-Heather people.  Of course, this could be because Bethenny naturally shares those opinions, and she probably does, obviously it's not an uncommon (or unfair) POV.  But to have it inserted in like that, when Bethenny is getting ripped online for being mean for no reason, seems a little bit.... convenient.

 

4.  There is no doubt - Heather is being annoying.  She was annoying in the First Look, naming herself co-host of the trip. She was annoying in this episode, pushing at Bethenny.  I have no doubt - Heather is bossy, and Heather can be annoying.  Fair enough.  It would be nice, though, if that weren't the ONLY quality of Heather's that the editors were sharing (she's also a great friend, an empathetic listener, a terrific Mom, a great party companion, etc.), or if Heather occasionally got a chance (in a place other than her blog) to explain herself.   But as others have said - maybe it's just the Season 3 edit meets the need for a villain meets the compulsion for us all to root for Bethenny.

 

Look out Heather.  You're all the way under the bus and I'm not sure you even know it.

[Jel]

That's exactly what this show does. We know about Heather's good qualities from her past edit, and it's her turn to get a crappy one I guess.

 

Not everyone is everyone's cup of tea though. Heather started to get on my nerves from about her third appearance.

[jaync]

It's the fact that there is a gag order barring Bethenny from discussing Jason, and Heather should not have steered the conversation toward anything to do with Bethenny needing to fight him in court.

But Beth never cited such a fact to Heather, nor in her TH. And it's not a fact that Heather knew anything about such a fact at the time.

 

I seriously doubt she [Carole] has any knowledge of the legal impact of a gag order on what Bethenny can say or what might be construed as a violation.

Then why would Heather be expected to be any more knowledgeable than Carole about a supposed gag order?

 

Bethenny herself was making fun of how swollen her face got.

How could she not?

 

 

[ghoulina]

I don't believe that Mario wants to reconcile with Ramona, at least not to the extent she's describing it.

 

No doubt. My guess is he was trying to manipulate her into some sort of booty call. She brought him food? Why? Was he pretending to be sick? Acting too pressed for time to get a bite? He's so skeevy, and I wished Ramona would have divulged exactly what was going on there. 

[breezy424]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mario is (was) trying to get back with Ro.  They've been together for decades and he maybe realizing that family life is a lot better with indiscretions here and there.  It's one thing to have a little fling now and then but it's another to be by yourself.  As crazy as Ro is, I think Mario loves her and misses being with Avery.

 

Time will tell.  I wonder what their divorce status is.  Ro did say she filed but that's been a while ago. 

[ryebread]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mario is (was) trying to get back with Ro.  They've been together for decades and he maybe realizing that family life is a lot better with indiscretions here and there. 

 

I think they'll get back together.  I agree with the above and, in addition, I think Ramona is uncomfortable being single.  She's trying hard to act the part but she's one of those people who needs to be married.  She's like a boat without a rudder without her Mary-O. If he wants to come back, imo, she'll take him back.

[zoeysmom]

I don't disagree with the description of someone dropping a topic as requested as being a polite, caring person. As far as I have seen, Beth has requested Heather to drop a topic that was not to Beth's liking on 2 occasions. The first was when Heather was defending Ramona to Beth and she loudly said "can we just stop because I don't really care". Heather said Ok and didn't say another word about it, right? Then there was the deal with Kristen not being invited to the party. Beth pretended to snooze and Heather asked if she was curious as to why Kristen was hurt. Beth said "no". The remainder of that discussion was fueled entirely by Beth, although Heather was certainly taking part. So Beth asked her to drop a topic twice and she did it. Sounds like a nice, polite person. She certainly never asked her to drop the custody conversation, but was engaging in it with stories of regular moms who can see their kids anytime they want.

As Heather and Bethenny were getting to know one another I always thought the big blow up at Sonja in the limo, which had a lot to do with Bethenny being late, probably was not the greatest impression to leave with Bethenny.  If we heard about everything Heather has done for Sonja on camera can you imagine what was said off camera.  I have kind of felt that there might have been a little production interference pitting Heather against Bethenny.

 

I think it is quite common when someone talks about their divorce to ask about  the custody arrangement.  It sure makes it easier to plan a girls' weekend if you know when your friend has her child. 

I think they'll get back together.  I agree with the above and, in addition, I think Ramona is uncomfortable being single.  She's trying hard to act the part but she's one of those people who needs to be married.  She's like a boat without a rudder without her Mary-O. If he wants to come back, imo, she'll take him back.

I think they are back together and Ramona isn't going to let her public persona take the hit yet.  Together they had two nice homes and a pretty good life.  Mario is 60 something bad time for a divorce.

[RedHawk]

Oh, lord. Carole's campaign for her condo board? I can't.

 

 

I didn't. Had it on DVR and FF'd 90% of anything Carole did or said. I'd rather read about it here than actually have to watch it. Just don't enjoy her at all. That said, serving expired Trader Joe's snacks -- baked in her actual working oven -- was hilarious. Better than a bowlful of M&Ms at least.

Edited June 1, 2015 by RedHawk

[Trooper York]

I would bet that Ramona and Mario are back together. Splitting up their marital assets will financially devastating.

I bet Ramona is taking the Carmela Soprano route.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Do we believe Beth is a narcissist? Also, do we think she is capable of empathy? Just curious what you all think.

[Mozelle]

The women were asked what they think of Bethenny--"What the Ladies Really Think of Bethenny"

 

Spoiler Alert: LuAnn compares Bethenny to anchovies. Ha! Meaning that you either like or dislike Bethenny.

Spoiler Alert #2: At some point in the season, Bethenny screams at Sonja ("Shut the fuck up!"). I'm assuming it happens in the Turks & Caicos.

 

Another video on the Bravo site is of Kristen and Sonja meeting up--"Unseen Footage: Kristen and Sonja Don’t See Eye to Eye" I have to wonder if this sitdown precedes Sonja's Latino Show Magazine event and that's why Kristen was apologizing at the event.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Mozelle

[BucFan]

I bought a box of Trader Joe's Parmesan Pastry Pups just for tomorrow night.

 I've never heard of them before. Many thanks to the great people on this board :)

[Mrs peel]

But they're OK with her tweeting 140 characters at a time instead of finishing her book?  What's the difference b/w writing a few pages of a blog and writing the equivalent of a few pages on Twitter, just in smaller bits?  I would think if they have the power to shut her down till she fulfills her contract, they'd use it across all platforms that involve writing.  Which leads me to believe it may not be true that she's prohibited from writing her blog.  She just doesn't want to for whatever reason.

Maybe she should look at the next book as if she is writing a long email (TM Aviva).

 

I have assumed, without knowing all the facts, that the non-custody part of Bethenny's divorce is ALL about whether the Skinnygirl deal money is covered by the pre-nup.  And yes, any comments by her about how integral Jason was to getting the Jim Beam deal would be evidence that the deal money isn't covered by the pre-nup.  Because let's face it, Skinnygirl is nothing without Jim Beam.  Or perhaps more precisely, without Jim Beam the original Skinnygirl drink is everything the Jim Beam version is not, including very high-end tequila, ordered individually at a bar.  I also guess that Jason can argue that, to the degree any other non-alcoholic Skinnygirl products are successful, that success is due at least in part to the "success" and marketing of the Skinnygirl brand by Jim Beam -- which a judge might then decide means they're not part of the pre-nup either.

 

None of which means Jason would get half or anything approaching that (even if a Judge decides the brand isn't within the terms of the pre-nup); the fact is the idea for the drink and name were Bethenny's before she met him, and she's now the only one doing the work to continue the brand.

[WireWrap]

The women were asked what they think of Bethenny--"What the Ladies Really Think of Bethenny"

 

Spoiler Alert: LuAnn compares Bethenny to anchovies. Ha! Meaning that you either like or dislike Bethenny.

Spoiler Alert #2: At some point in the season, Bethenny screams at Sonja ("Shut the fuck up!"). I'm assuming it happens in the Turks & Caicos.

 

Another video on the Bravo site is of Kristen and Sonja meeting up--"Unseen Footage: Kristen and Sonja Don’t See Eye to Eye" I have to wonder if this sitdown precedes Sonja's Latino Show Magazine event and that's why Kristen was apologizing at the event.

I loved that the producer or the camera guy laughed at the anchovy comparison! LOL

[Duke2801]

Well, Heather may not have got a talking head.  But she did get to watch the episode and take her time crafting a written response.  Here is what she said in her blog.  It didn't really add much in my opinion.

 

 

I still don't understand why Heather thinks it's her job to bring "clarity" to the situation.  That didn't even sound like what she was trying to do.  She didn't clarify shit imo.  She got confused about what Bethenny was saying, gave a useless opinion based on her misunderstanding, then gets her nose out of joint because her quasi advice went unappreciated.

 

I think Heather would find life with Bethenny much easier to navigate if she would stick to safe topics and stop trying to stir the pot by bringing up other people's hurt feelings, who Bethenny owes a car, and her court drama just to score airtime.

 

Nobody - including Heather - indicated that it was her "job" to bring clarity to the situation.  She was trying to gain an understanding of it for herself. 

 

Both women would probably say that custody of Bryn and Jax's health problems are the most "personal raw negative upsetting things" in their lives.  If someone you don't like comments on that, I can see one or the other getting cranky.  Neither one of them like each other.  Understandable considering that they have to withstand each other for longer than 42 minutes a week.

 

 

Although both situations involve their children, I still see the 2 situations (Bryn's custody and Jax's health issues) as apples and oranges.  Heather has spoken openly and honestly about Jax's hearing, as well as his many other health issues.  She's never tried to shut somebody down or make them feel like an asshole for inquiring about it. 

 

Bethenny has done.... the opposite. 

[FozzyBear]

No one said 'Fix it'. What Heather said was a response to something Beth said about visitation that we didn't see or hear. Heather said so what is the visitation? So six days you don't get to see her? That's not fair. You gotta fix that. Then Beth said no and explained. I don't find that obnoxious and unwarranted.

Ok, just my opinion and total respect to yours, but I do actually find that obnoxious and unwarranted. Unless I was someone's lawyer I don't think I would ever tell anyone they need to fix anything about their custody. I especially wouldn't say anything even remotely close to that to someone that I wasn't even close with. In that circumstance, if I were Bethanny I might have a little "I don't need to do jack shit, but tell you to back off" moment, but I would keep mine in my head and just smile politely as I started to change the subject to how beautiful Carole's apartment is. It gets so much light, Heather. Isn't that great?

Now in Heather's defense, I really, really don't think Heather means any harm. I think she just has a verbal tick about controlling conversations. I've always noticed that she has a tendency to use a lot of command language when having casual conversations. Lots of "you felt like this" or "you need to do this" "you were upset because of this". I think it's her way of being engaged in the conversation, but it can come across as presumptuous and condescending. It's one of those things were it either bugs you or it doesn't. It would bug me. It doesn't make Heather a bad person, but if I knew her I would likely have to remind myself that she means well all the time.

[WireWrap]

Ok, just my opinion and total respect to yours, but I do actually find that obnoxious and unwarranted. Unless I was someone's lawyer I don't think I would ever tell anyone they need to fix anything about their custody. I especially wouldn't say anything even remotely close to that to someone that I wasn't even close with. In that circumstance, if I were Bethanny I might have a little "I don't need to do jack shit, but tell you to back off" moment, but I would keep mine in my head and just smile politely as I started to change the subject to how beautiful Carole's apartment is. It gets so much light, Heather. Isn't that great?

Now in Heather's defense, I really, really don't think Heather means any harm. I think she just has a verbal tick about controlling conversations. I've always noticed that she has a tendency to use a lot of command language when having casual conversations. Lots of "you felt like this" or "you need to do this" "you were upset because of this". I think it's her way of being engaged in the conversation, but it can come across as presumptuous and condescending. It's one of those things were it either bugs you or it doesn't. It would bug me. It doesn't make Heather a bad person, but if I knew her I would likely have to remind myself that she means well all the time.

Those "command language" sayings you mention are her repeating back what the person said in the first place. She is not saying it to give her opinion or to override what that person said at all but to make she got it right and understands what the person meant.

 

 Bethenny does not want to discuss the custody issues or her divorce, she then needs to stop bringing it up every single time she is around the women. They get it, we get it, she is homeless despite her millions, she shares custody with her soon to be ex, she dislikes sharing anything let alone her daughter, she hates being questioned about anything yet has no problem asking personal questions of the others. We get it, we get it!

[Grneyedldy]

I think there were reports of him moving back into their apartment around that time as well. Something about him staying there and at a friends apartment. Anyone else remember reading that?

Yes I do to recall reading that he moved back in and was sleeping in the guest room.

[missy jo]

[bethenny] hates being questioned about anything yet has no problem asking personal questions of the others. We get it, we get it!

 

 

In addition to asking, also telling women that she doesn't like the word they use to refer to their dead husbands, and that they need to fix the relationship between their boyfriend and their daughter. But hey, no biggie. ** snore ** 

 

I actually got a laugh out of Carole's condo board storyline, because I was on mine as well. The politics are ruthless! And it definitely puts the lie to her not wanting to work, because that is the most thankless, tedious volunteer work you will ever do. Ever watched the public forum scenes on Parks & Recreation? Welcome to the life of a condo board member.

[ryebread]

Although both situations involve their children, I still see the 2 situations (Bryn's custody and Jax's health issues) as apples and oranges.  Heather has spoken openly and honestly about Jax's hearing, as well as his many other health issues.  She's never tried to shut somebody down or make them feel like an asshole for inquiring about it. 

 

Yes, different situations but my point was more about telling someone to "FIX" something that they've already been desperately trying to do for their child. It can sound to a hypersensitive parent (Holla Bethenny!) like they haven't done enough.  And here comes someone commanding you gotta just fix that.

 

Also, Heather spoke honestly about Jax's problems.  But don't think that Beth wouldn't be giving us an earful about custody if she were able.

[izabella]

I didn't. Had it on DVR and FF'd 90% of anything Carole did or said. I'd rather read about it here than actually have to watch it. Just don't enjoy her at all. That said, serving expired Trader Joe's snacks -- baked in her actual working oven -- was hilarious. Better than a bowlful of M&Ms at least.

 

For someone who claims never to cook and never to use her kitchen, Carole sure seems entirely uninformed about food delivery and catering.  She does realize that whatever deli/diner she is buying her sandwiches would be more than happy to prepare a platter of sandwiches and deliver them to her for her guests, right?