S10.E23: Brother's Keeper

[catrox14]

I can understand Jared not being on there, but Jensen can still tweet from wherever. I just found it odd is all. 

[SueB]

Well that happened.

Fantastic scene in the bar.

I wasn't feeling the love for Seth the Polish coffee bean roaster.

I'm sad Death was killed.

The tattoo on Jared's arm (not in the show, a spot entail spoiler that didn't pan out). ..... I wonder if

that was just him an his kids messing around.

But Jensen, little fart, I think the Purgatory-ish pic on Facebook was a hint.

I liked it. It had some rough spots but it felt epic to me.

[Tippi Blevins]

Even the acting couldn't save that scene for me. Because it's so very believable that when you put Dean on a planet in another galaxy far far away, Sam will come and get him. 

 

"Elon Musk? This is Sam Winchester. I need a spaceship that can send me a billion light years to my brother!"

 

At the worst, couldn't Death have shipped them both off to the same planet? Just let them be codependent on Kepler 186f or something and not bother anybody else? 

[catrox14]

 

But Jensen, little fart, I think the Purgatory-ish pic on Facebook was a hint.

 

Same.

[Ferniesfreckles]

Jensen is off somewhere either flying to Australia or already there.

Jared is obviously incomunicado.

Poor baby, I hope he's doing better.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Ferniesfreckles

[Zanne]

At the worst, couldn't Death have shipped them both off to the same planet? Just let them be codependent on Kepler 186f or something and not bother anybody else? 

 

There goes the neighborhood.

[missbonnie]

All that build-up worrying one of my favorite characters was going to die and that was it???? I'm going to assume that the exact second Cas was about to kill Crowley the darkness started shaking that side of the state as well so they are both still alive. I hope so anyway, other than that this was kind of a blah season finale I thought.

ETA: I highly doubt that Dean actually killed Death permanently and I suspect that he's going to be really pissed off at the Winchester men when he gets back.

Edited May 21, 2015 by missbonnie

[catrox14]

Wait, wait, wait.  So 42 was hint about the idea that Dean would be floating through the galaxy, hitchhiking...if you like?

Edited May 21, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

When did he say 42?

[catrox14]

Also, I loved that Jensen looked wrecked in that scene when he woke up on the floor in that hotel room. That man communicates pain so well

[Altered Reality]

Wait, wait, wait.  So 42 was hint about the idea that Dean would be floating through the galaxy, hitchhiking...if you like?

Bwahahhahahha!  As long as he has his towel.

[missbonnie]

I missed something, what's going on with Jared P?

[Altered Reality]

I missed something, what's going on with Jared P?

He pulled out of Cons in Rome and Australia.  From what was reported by the folks at the Con in Rome, looks like he was really exhausted and Jensen convinced him to go home to rest.

[missbonnie]

I can see how that could happen, poor guy, hopefully he will rest and recharge his batteries. I've noticed that he along with Jensen and Misha seem to really go above and beyond for the fans.

[Altered Reality]

Okay between the outer space talk in the episode and the 42 talk here, I now am convinced we need a season (or two) of Supernatural in Space.  I'm sure we could find a Millennium Falcon (or reasonable facsimile)  for the boys to ride around in ;D

[catrox14]

I laughed so much at this post on tumblr

 

http://deanisanactualprincess.tumblr.com/post/119504916688/this-could-have-been-season-11"

 

Okay between the outer space talk in the episode and the 42 talk here, I now am convinced we need a season (or two) of Supernatural in Space.  I'm sure we could find a Millennium Falcon (or reasonable facsimile)  for the boys to ride around in ;D

 

I'm pretty sure Dean retrofitted some booster rockets and dilithium crystals on Baby.

When did he say 42?

 

 42 was the number on the door Bobby used in Inside Man

Edited May 21, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Okay.....wait, just a frakkin' minute.

 

When the Mark was transferred to Dean, Cain said it had to be someone worthy....so is Carver now saying that Dean was worthy because he could handle the darkness or because he was dark already?

 

Why do I even fucking care? /head desk

[millennium]

Thought the "Fan Fiction" intro to "Carry On My Wayward Son" diluted the song, but I suppose it made sense given the watered-down finale they foisted on us.

 

Uneventful.  Anti-climactic.  Dullsville.

[miles2go]

Okay -- season finale:

 

Dean gets some cosmetic surgery curtesy of a magical lightening bolt.

Darkness is loose upon the Earth and air quality index goes into the red.

Rowena turns into mega-witch.

Death becomes dead. (Huh?)

 

But, most importantly, THE DEANSTER KNOWS HOW TO COOK TEX-MEX!  

And here I thought Dean's idea of cookery was setting the timer on a microwave.

[cheatincheetos]

Castiel's going to kill Crowley, and the new big bad is a giant dust storm.

 

Did I miss anything?

I have to check my hunter's guide, but it looked more like a Season Insert-Number-Here Finale Deja Vu monster to me.

[catrox14]

 

But, most importantly, THE DEANSTER KNOWS HOW TO COOK TEX-MEX! 

And here I thought Dean's idea of cookery was setting the timer on a microwave.

 

Nah man! Remember Dean made him and Sam cheeseburgers when they moved into the Bunker. Sam looks for Dean in the kitchen from time to time. Dean was totally cooking. And I have no doubt he figured out how to make Tex Mex.

So was it Sam's love for Dean that got through or was it Mary's pictures?  Or was it Cas' love for Dean that was so great that he was willing to summon Crowley to help him?

 

I say yes.

[missbonnie]

Forgot to mention that "the darkness" totally reminded me of the special effects the CW used for Darksied on Smallville, no wonder I didn't like it.

[Omegamom]

Well. I was underwhelmed. I thought the best part was Rowena killing her sweet Polish boy, all for power.

Death ain't dead. If Death died, it would be cosmic, there would be earthquakes, stars would go supernova, etc.

I...I...it was just weird.

Hunh. Trying to process it.

[Commando Cody]

At least the mark is finally off.  I was getting tired of it.  

 

Death was wasted in this episode  - literally and figuratively.  RIP Death.  RIP.

 

I waited for Lucifer to appear.  It looked like a way to bring him out again.  I was just thinking that after all that has happened to Heaven since they closed the lid on Lucifer's cage, Michael might be the scary one.  

[Hana Chan]

This is a classic example of writers not only not sure how to get from point A to point B, but have no clue as to what point B actually is. They apparently had no clue what to do with the MoC storyline and in the end just tossed it. And to all of a sudden have The Darkness emerge at the 11th hour as the reason why destroying the mark being a bad idea was an annoying contrivance. They had to end the storyline, but did it in a pretty poor manner. It's one of the weakest storyline resolutions this show ever had.

 

In my headcanon, the only reason that Rowena's spell worked was because Dean, in the end, refused to kill Sam (Cain's original crime) and became an "unworthy" host for the mark. At least that might give this some kind of meaning for Dean.

[LordBowen]

So when the Mark of Cain left Dean, the Darkness was able to escape from where God and the Archangels had imprisoned it (cough*island*cough). 

[miles2go]

Nah man! Remember Dean made him and Sam cheeseburgers when they moved into the Bunker. Sam looks for Dean in the kitchen from time to time. Dean was totally cooking. And I have no doubt he figured out how to make Tex Mex.

 

 

Ah, I see.

Perhaps, next season, we'll see Dean do a special on the Cooking channel, called "How to make food offerings for gods and semi-divine beings" -- assuming, of course, that the Cloud of Doom doesn't shut down all the TV stations.

[Jediknight]

So when the Mark of Cain left Dean, the Darkness was able to escape from where God and the Archangels had imprisoned it (cough*island*cough). 

I really doubt that the Darkness was Gilligan.

[raytch]

I am truly torn about this.

 

The show is definitely going dark, but it's doing so with its main characters and it's making it damn hard to root for them.

Dean killing 1) humans, 2) a teenager, c) Death, and commenting on a dead girl being a slut is gonna take one hell of a redemption arc.

Same goes for Sam triggering The Darkness.

 

I have some questions that most of you have already addressed like is it really so easy to kill a Horseman? If Rowena had made Oskar immortal did stabbing him in the neck kill him or does he heal? How come Cas was affected by Rowena's spell? Is she that powerful now that she has the codex or is it because he doesn't have his full grace back?

 

The solution proposed by Death was stupid. How would Sam teleport himself to outer space and look for Dean who is floating somewhere in the great beyond? Say he does manage to do it, it will probably take him a life time to find him.

I was really upset to see him go because he's such a compelling character. He doesn't show very often but it was always a pleasure to see him with the boys.

 

The good stuff were really good though.

I think I mentioned this in a post a couple of weeks back, I've been more invested in this season than I have for years. Hell I'm posting here because this is the first season since season the season 6 finale that leaves me with something to say.

I loved the underlying themes of the entire series being so prominently present tonight. How far will these brothers go to save one another even when they're not fully convinced that they are worth saving?

When Sam triggered the apocalypse before, we were still rooting for him and Dean. Now that he has unleashed The Darkness upon the entire galaxy, to save Dean who 1) does not want to be saved, 2) who's goodness is very questionable at the moment; it's more complicated, especially that they have been down that road before and nearly ended the world as we know it, so going there all over again doesn't seem that exciting because it's just recycling, and is not something we would just go with because we've seen how bad that turned out before. 

 

But, then again, at this point, we already knew this would happen. For 10 years, every time the Winchesters had to choose between family and the world, they've always chosen family because when they went with the other option, they were still somehow sucked into yet another world threatening master plot .

It doesn't feel like a recycling as much as a loop they're stuck in.

Dean said it in this episode, this family attracts evil. Every time they take down a monster or a Big Bad, there's something bigger along the way, and they know it by now. It's depressing as hell if you think about it because there is no breaking this. And if there's no breaking this then what is the point? Why fight the good fight or even fight at all?

 

Still, I like that the writers are actually going there, it's a very bleak and risky story when you put your characters in the grey area and have them muddle in it for a while without any moral compass.

The MoC plot was interesting because it doesn't turn Dean into an evil chauvinist but it connects him to his primal self. So Dean is not a different person under the MoC, it's the same Dean we've known since the beginning, but one that isn't trying to go by the good guys moral code.

Edited May 21, 2015 by raytch

[Ria]

So Dean summons Death for help. Death offers a solution. Dean kills Death. Why? Is this how the Winchesters treat those who respond to their call? I still think Dean killed Death solely because Death said he would kill Sam if Dean didn't. That is all that matters to these two assholes, saving each other. They both deserve to die in that car surrounded by the darkness.

 

And yes, Cas should have known all about what the mark was and the consequences of removing it. He kept going along with the plan even though he had misgivings and concerns about the consequences, so he's become as big an asshole as the brothers.

 

I wonder if the magic in the book came from Lucifer. That would explain why there is a spell to remove the mark (which no one other than God and the archangels should know) and why the magic is strong enough to control both the King of Hell and an angel.

 

I like Rowena. She's openly selfish and self serving. The brothers are acting no better than she but pretend it's all for a higher purpose when their prime motivation is really never losing the other.

[Miles]

Ugh, I think I'm out. I don't think I have it in me to watch them destroy the world that was built previously any further, by discarding every rule there is.

Not only did they mention again that closing of hells gates bullshit (they are closed, otherwise there would be hell on earth) but now they killed Death. We previously established that not even god can kill Death. Is Dean now more powerfull than god? Also how exactly did Oscar die once Death was dead? That should not work.

They can't even keep stuff straight that was said this season. If the mark was created by god and is the key to the darkness, it means it's not "just a curse" and Rovina shouldn't be able to remove it that easily. Also why would the ingredients be things that were created after god created the mark? Did god just decide to be a dick, weaken the mark and make it breakable with that stuff?

Also this doesn't go against established lore, but I still think it's bullshit that Lucifer was turned evil by the mark. We've already established that angels are dicks. Lucifer was just a slightly bigger dick than most, in that he didn't even care about what god said. None of the angels cared about humans. That is a recent invention. Lucifer being corrupted cheapens the whole thing. This makes me fear that Lucifer is now "cured", now that the mark is gone and he will fight with the boys and their half brother against the darkness. *vomits* I really wouldn't put that past these writers.

Dean was right. They may have been a force for good at some point, but in recent seasons they tend to make things much worse, for their own selfish ends. See this episode. The world would be much better off with them dead. I wish I would have stoped watching after the lucifer-arc, after the leviathan-arc at the latest. Now I have to live with the memory of this bullshit tarnishing a once great show.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Miles

[catrox14]

My hope is that this is not what it seems.  I don't believe Death would just be smited that easily.

 

 

 

The MoC plot was interesting because it doesn't turn Dean into an evil chauvinist but it connects him to his primal self. So Dean is not a different person under the MoC, it's the same Dean we've known since the beginning, but one that isn't trying to go by the good guys moral code.

 

No, I don't buy the idea that Dean's dickery is his true self.  demon!Dean was the side that was saying and doing what he wanted because the Mark twisted him into something he didn't want to be. It messed up his soul.  And he was supposedly cured of that.  No, I reject totally and completely the idea that this Mark just revealed Dean's true self.  That's also saying that Dean's true self was not actually good ever and that his doing good things was just a facade. No. I can't buy into that. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

What I could buy is that the Mark was fucking with his mind and making him believe the worst of himself and making him believe that there was no good inside so why not just go crazy and kill ALL THE THINGS.  I will never be convinced that the bullshit they put in his mouth, calling a dead teenage girl a whore, was always what Dean thought of women because that's just never been shown to be true.  Never.

[Demented Daisy]

I've slept on it and... nope, still doesn't work.  So much stupid.  But more than that, I'm tired of the Winchesters never getting a win.  I mean, they get small victories, but the big stuff is always followed by something awful.  It's tiresome.

 

The Darkness is just the Leviathan all over again.

 

I know it was my idea, so I'm biased, but I still wish that Rowena had been brought in to lead a revolt against Hell, with Sam and Dean (and Cas, I suppose) caught in the middle.  At least Sam and Dean wouldn't have caused that world-threatening event for a change.  And it wouldn't have been (I hate saying this, but) unrealistic to think that Sam and Dean could fight witches and demons at the same time.

 

But, come on.  How are Sam and Dean supposed to be able to fight what God and the archangels were barely able to contain?  Chuck better show up in the season premiere, with all his archangels resurrected, to chew out Sam and Dean.  

 

The worst part is, I'm not even mad.  I'm just disappointed.

[catrox14]

Did you all notice the name of the restaurant was Juan...s?  I'm assuming it was Juanita's but the ita was burned out leaving Juan which of course is John.

 

So when Death said Sam stood him up, is that now implying that it really was Death in 9.1 vs Sam's comascape mind? Are we to believe that Death really did think it was an honor to reap Sam Winchester?   Why would Death tell Dean do him the honor of lopping off Sam's head. Would Death really say that Dean is a stain on his family's memory? Death never made those kinds of judgments. He gave his reapee's choices and agreed to reap or not reap. He never was the arbiter of good vs evil that I can remember. He was the arbiter of Death.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

If this is supposed to be a straight up thing where Dean kills actual Death then how does Dean not become the new Death immediately?   Also, why did Dean look so shocked when he stabbed Death? It looks like he didn't expect to do that. So was it really an intentional killing of Death vs accidental? Or did Death redirect the blade to himself for ...reasons?

 

The only way anything makes sense is if this a Metatron scheme.  IMO it's like Metatron using Cas' love for Dean in s9 against him to usurp the angel army.  Now that ended up failing but not for lack of trying.

 

And really, Dean can't get Baby out of a pot hole? SINCE WHEN??? 

 

Gods. I rewatched hoping to find that the whiskey had addled my brain but nope, it's the writing.

Edited May 21, 2015 by catrox14

[Hana Chan]

I knew that in the end it was always going to come down to Dean being told that he had to kill Sam. It was the perfect circle bringing us back to Cain's original crime - fratricide. To me, what Death offered Dean wasn't so much a way out, but a test. Like Cain, Dean was presented with an awful set of consequences if he didn't do what has always been the big deal breaker - letting his brother come to harm. Being told to kill his brother in order to prevent the evil that he was holding back just put him in a situation that he couldn't win because there is just no way that Dean would do it. Even with Sam willing to go along with the idea, Dean was never going to be able to bring himself to do it if he was at all capable of making the decision.

 

Which is why Death telling Dean to kill Sam felt more like a test of just how much hold the mark had on him and less about preventing The Darkness from returning. If Dean was able to kill Sam, then that was proof that he was completely corrupted by the mark and had to be sent away for the protection of the world (though Death never seemed overly interested in Cain running around). Dean refusing in the end to kill Sam, even when told that the fate of the world rested on him doing so proved that he was not "worthy" of the mark (if you can consider being "worthy" in any way a good thing) and that allowed enough of an opening for Rowena's spell to remove the mark. The Darkness (which there was no hint of ever) felt more like a contrivance to bring us into next season with something for the boys to feel badly about.

 

In the end, Sam and Dean will always fight for one another. That's just who they are. Which is why I hope that if next season is the last one, that Jensen and Jared get their wish and the Winchesters go out in a Butch and Sundance moment. Because anything else at this point would be pretty unthinkable for me.

[smree]

I can understand Jared not being on there, but Jensen can still tweet from wherever. I just found it odd is all. 

Pretty sure from various tweets that Jensen was on a plane to Australia when the ep was airing, as there's another con there this weekend.

I thought last weeks 'The Prisoner' was a much better episode. I love SPN but it's a show that doesn't have a big enough budget to carry 'epic' story lines which makes me think the darkness will fall short of expectations.

 

The finale would have sat much better with me if Sam & Dean had agreed that both had to die/go away so that they could save the world but before that happens Rowena's spell kicks in. Instead of Dean not being able to kill Sam and both brothers knowing that there will be dire consequences to their actions but still going there :(

 

Have to say I'm not a fan of Jeremy Carver episodes and the dialogue he writes doesn't sit well with me. There were many smarter ways to show Deans decent and loss of control to the mark without going were Carver did with the dialogue about the dead girl. TBH if that wasn't there I probably would have really liked this ep.

 

Jensen & Jared were great in the episode and I think maybe because of what's going on with Jared at the moment seeing Sam so broken and desperate really got to me :(

 

Biggest question of the episode was....How does Sam have a bag with Deans hair????....Is it normal for people to carry bags of their siblings hair around?

 

Well I'll be back for season 11 and looking forward to seeing how they handle 'Killing Death', 'The Darkness', and what happened with Crowley & Cas  :D

Edited May 21, 2015 by smree

[catrox14]

 

Pretty sure from various tweets that Jensen was on a plane to Australia when the ep was airing, as there's another con there this weekend.

 

Please don't take my wonderment as a criticism of either Jared or Jensen. It's not at all. If anything I kind of hope they went radio silent in protest of the stupid ending LOL

[catrox14]

Why is everyone calling Dean - "Deano" this season?  Seriously? It's frakking annoying.

 

I don't understand the girl that Dean rescued being all "YOU COULD HAVE TALKED".  I'm sorry but if that were me and unless I'd  been there long enough to get Stockholder's Syndrome (tm Jason Stackhouse) I would have been all "YES KILL THEM ALL" and I really wouldn't have cared about the collateral damage. Just get my sorry ass out of there.

[raytch]

My hope is that this is not what it seems.  I don't believe Death would just be smited that easily.

 

 

 

No, I don't buy the idea that Dean's dickery is his true self.  demon!Dean was the side that was saying and doing what he wanted because the Mark twisted him into something he didn't want to be. It messed up his soul.  And he was supposedly cured of that.  No, I reject totally and completely the idea that this Mark just revealed Dean's true self.  That's also saying that Dean's true self was not actually good ever and that his doing good things was just a facade. No. I can't buy into that. 

 

 

What I could buy is that the Mark was fucking with his mind and making him believe the worst of himself and making him believe that there was no good inside so why not just go crazy and kill ALL THE THINGS.  I will never be convinced that the bullshit they put in his mouth, calling a dead teenage girl a whore, was always what Dean thought of women because that's just never been shown to be true.  Never.

 

 

What I meant was that, MoC!Dean is not a possessed Dean. It's Dean, with all his life experience but without everything that makes him Dean.

 

I don't know if I can really explain this without going a bit meta so please, bare with me here.

 

We all have a dark side that we try to keep in check. People always need some sort of a moral compass, and certain ties to the world that make them want to be the best version of themselves.

Take out those ties and the moral compass, what you are left with is the same person but without what makes them them.

Aren't serial killers, murderers and "villains" people who just lost their connection with themselves and the world? They're people who at some point 'snapped' for one reason or another.

 

What the MoC did to Dean, is not erase him completely, it nurtured his dark side which has always been present. Charlie getting killed was the tip of the iceberg and just made him not give a f*ck anymore.

Is Dean a cold blooded killer and a chauvinist who thinks of women as whores? No. But what he is with the MoC is someone who just stopped giving a damn about limits.

 

The Stynes killed Charlie, he goes on a rampage and kills the entire family without blinking.

Without the mark he would have gone for revenge but probably in a different way.

 

He sees a blond girl in a revealing outfit dead in the woods, and feels comfortable calling her a whore because he's able to acknowledge something the sheriff didn't.

He told the sheriff "good luck solving this case with your eyes closed", by which he meant that in order to crack this case, the sheriff had to understand that this girl was most probably sexually active and looking for some action when she left her house.

Her parents were hardcore Christians, her dad said she was "a shy girl" (a good girl who did not have sex and did not get into trouble" and Dean said he "smelled the deceit, the beatings, and the shame that pervaded this home", and that no wonder she went out looking for something else and a monster got to her. What he's saying is not entirely true because obviously it's very rude and judgmental to assume that she's a slut, but by calling her that he pushed her father to somehow acknowledge that he is responsible for her death, which was why he tried to attack Dean.

Again I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but Dean basically told the father that yes your daughter may have been a slut (which is not really the point) and that if she was it's on you (which is the point) because you pushed her in that direction (by repressing her so hard that she eventually 'lashed out'). It's almost like he wants push the father to assume that he is the reason his daughter went out and ended up dead on the side of the road, whether he knew who killed her or not.

When he gets to the cabin, he's set on saving the girl. Which he does, but he lets Rudy die in the process. Dean without the mark would have saved both, but with the MoC he doesn't care if Rudy looses his life in the process, as he is collateral damage.

 

If the mark had possessed Dean, he probably would have done a lot worse, let alone that he wouldn't have worked the case because he wouldn't have cared enough to.

Obviously he's struggling, and he sees himself becoming someone, that he doesn't want to be, which is why he contacts Death. The part where Sam has to die as part of the solution is beyond stupid. But it served as a parallel to the season 8 finale when he stopped Sam from finishing the trials, as he wasn't willing to lose his brother for the greater good, but with the MoC struggle he's willing to do whatever it takes because the alternative is not something either of them can live with.

[Primetimer]

Crowley really wants the last word but he so isn't getting it.

Read the story

[Frost]

Also why would the ingredients be things that were created after god created the mark?

 

That's a very good point!  It would be nice if the writer's actually considered that and the timing between the Mark disappearing and Rowena performing her spell were a coincidence.  Rowena was always in it for herself and I wouldn't be surprised if her spell had nothing whatsoever to do with the Mark.  Nobody else could read the book, even with the decoded Codex.  (Which is another thing that bothers me, nobody in Heaven studies evil things so as to be prepared to fight them?  A human witch is more capable of reading the book than a Heavenly scholar?)  Even if they needed a witch to cast the spell, they needed someone else to read the spell to make sure it was the right one!

 

I like the idea that Death was testing Dean, to see if he would follow Cain's lead and kill his brother.  But I don't know where the show would go with that storyline.  Death did seem to be telling the truth about removing the Mark releasing the darkness.

 

So Metatron and a Book of the Damned powered Rowena are loose upon the world, in addition to The Darkness.  If I was Dean, being sent into outer space would be looking pretty good right now.

[catrox14]

 

I like the idea that Death was testing Dean, to see if he would follow Cain's lead and kill his brother.  But I don't know where the show would go with that storyline.  Death did seem to be telling the truth about removing the Mark releasing the darkness.

 

Unless Metatron or Crowley or Rowena etc were in cahoots with Death or that wasn't Death and the goal was to unleash the Darkness on purpose and they needed Sam and Dean to do that. 

[catrox14]

 

themselves.Take out those ties and the moral compass, what you are left with is the same person but without what makes them them.

 

 

But even if this is a darkness this implies that Dean's dark side is a misogynistic POS that would judge a teenage girl's sexual behavior based on her clothing but he doesn't judge the Frankenstein that has seven nipples for the ladies or the fellas. So Dean's filter approves of bisexuality but not teenage girls in skimpy clothing.  And yes he's also judging the parents for making her feel unsafe about her life.  Of course, maybe this is just their way of opening the can of worms about bi-Dean and that the judgment on the family was about families that judge their LGBT child.  But if that's the case, maybe let's not do that to Dean.

 

For me the Mark changes your innate goodness to badness. Not that it removes a filter allowing the dark out.

Edited May 21, 2015 by catrox14

[raytch]

But even if this is a darkness this implies that Dean's dark side is a misogynistic POS that would judge a teenage girl's sexual behavior based on her clothing but he doesn't judge the Frankenstein that has seven nipples for the ladies or the fellas. So Dean's filter approves of bisexuality but not teenage girls in skimpy clothing.  And yes he's also judging the parents for making her feel unsafe about her life.  Of course, maybe this is just their way of opening the can of worms about bi-Dean and that the judgment on the family was about families that judge their LGBT child.  But if that's the case, maybe let's not do that to Dean.

 

For me the Mark changes your innate goodness to badness. Not that it removes a filter allowing the dark out.

But why do you see it as a filter?

A filter would imply hypocrisy which wasn't what I was going for. 

What I was trying to say is that it's not a filter being removed, but rather two poles in struggle and one overcoming the other.

 

The first whore comment makes me thinks it's bad writing, like they just want us to gasp at how awful MoC Dean is; the latter at the victim's house seemed to me like some kind of effed up mind control by Dean just to have the father realize one way or the other that if he hadn't beaten up his daughter and boxed her into being a 'Good Christian' she would still be alive. (Kind of like Cohle on True Detective always made people confess to things)

 

That scene reminded me a lot of Jessica being turned into a vampire on True Blood. Her dad was also a hardcore Christian who never let her out of the house, so the one night she sneaks out looking for something different, trouble finds her and she's turned into a vampire.

Edited May 21, 2015 by raytch

[Miles]

That's a very good point!  It would be nice if the writer's actually considered that and the timing between the Mark disappearing and Rowena performing her spell were a coincidence.  Rowena was always in it for herself and I wouldn't be surprised if her spell had nothing whatsoever to do with the Mark.  Nobody else could read the book, even with the decoded Codex.  (Which is another thing that bothers me, nobody in Heaven studies evil things so as to be prepared to fight them?  A human witch is more capable of reading the book than a Heavenly scholar?)  Even if they needed a witch to cast the spell, they needed someone else to read the spell to make sure it was the right one!

It would be a great twist if Rowina actually just cast a spell to make herself more powerfull and the mark was destroyed by the fact that Dean refused to kill his borther. But these are the supernatural writers. They haven't had a great idea in 5 seasons. So I won't hold my breath.

[catrox14]

You were saying that the dark side is always there but the moral compass controls the darkness.  So if you remove the moral compass/filter/whatever it is that keeps the dark side in check that Dean's dark side is really just that douchebag POS.

 

I'm going to have to rewatch that scene because it just doesn't comport at all for me with what they have established about Dean. To me there is nothing to take away from  Dean calling a dead scantily clad teen girl a whore. or having her father call her a slut or Dean saying she dressed like a skank to get validation, because it's his dark side.

 

I  understand what they were attempting here with Dean calling out the family for being controlling parents but either way it's two men judging this teen girl for being sexual and that just is not how Dean has EVER rolled and it's awful and confusing for this viewer.  I mean I can see Dean thinking "Hey Rose, maybe you don't want to chill with these douchebags" but I really can't fathom him sitting there wagging his finger at her for dressing in a short skirt and thinking "oh you are just such a little skank".  It's gross.

 

It was just a totally problematic thing and I'm going to have to noodle more on what the hell they were thinking. 

[KirkB]

I just want to understand the timeline here. The only thing in the universe was the Darkness. Then God came along with his Archangels, fought the Darkness and locked it away with the Mark as the key. Then some time after that, still in the primordial origins of creation, God created the Leviathans who proved to be more powerful and dangerous than even He expected (somehow) so He built Purgatory and locked them inside. Then he created the regular angels like Cas and eventually mankind. Is that about right?

I can buy Death being the only one to know the Mark's true origins. If it was a lock for a door God built even before the Leviathans the only beings in creation old enough to maybe know were the Archangels (who are all dead), Metatron (the most unreliable of narrators) and Death, who said he was around at least as long as God and would probably eventually reap even Him. Looks like he was a little off on that one though.

[catrox14]

Okay, I've been pretty negative on this episode but here the things I actually liked.

 

Jared rocked that final scene. I often find Jared's cry face overwrought but this was beautiful and understated and I felt it was Sam crying and not Jared. 

 

I loved Dean's just awful, wrecked self in the hotel room scene. But can someone explain how the fuck Jensen can make his face just shift like that from being this cold hearted ruthless thing desperately trying to rub out the damn spot and then look like a lost little boy in like 3 seconds and back again to punching the face that he hates? That was just incredible work. Give that man a frakking Emmy already!!!! ( I know, I know)

[Bruinsfan]

So this "Darkness" was before the Leviathans??

Or concurrently??

:/

 

 

I just want to understand the timeline here. The only thing in the universe was the Darkness. Then God came along with his Archangels, fought the Darkness and locked it away with the Mark as the key. Then some time after that, still in the primordial origins of creation, God created the Leviathans who proved to be more powerful and dangerous than even He expected (somehow) so He built Purgatory and locked them inside. Then he created the regular angels like Cas and eventually mankind. Is that about right?

I can buy Death being the only one to know the Mark's true origins. If it was a lock for a door God built even before the Leviathans the only beings in creation old enough to maybe know were the Archangels (who are all dead), Metatron (the most unreliable of narrators) and Death, who said he was around at least as long as God and would probably eventually reap even Him. Looks like he was a little off on that one though.

Previously the show's canon established that Lucifer (and by extension, the other archangels) was much younger than Death, and was presumably created a few hundred million years ago long after the Leviathans and Mother-of-All had been banished from the earth. Though I suppose we couldn't expect the current showrunners to respect that bit of info any more than any of the other elements of the show's cosmology that have been cheapened and thrown in the trash.

 

Speaking of, given how mundane and ultimately ineffective a threat the Leviathans turned out to be, I assume next season The Darkness will be operating via an evil accounting firm that overcharges clients.