S07.E07: Family Matters

[zoeysmom]

Um . . . When did *anyone* say - let alone suggest - that Carole and Anthony were "impoverished losers" or "selfish assholes"? It simply stands to reason that if you have 50 million dollars in assets, you wouldn't need to sell an heirloom of historical and personal significance in order to put a down payment on a loft because you'd already have discretionary funds. And, conversely, if you have to sell off possessions in order to raise that down payment, you probably don't have a lot of cash at your disposal . . . Kristen herself has given interviews this year in which she has disclosed that her marriage/family dynamics were "off limits" to producers this season.

Carole does not have 50 million dollars. When asked about it she said, "I think what they meant is 50 millions pesos."  This is straight out of Carole's mouth http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/carole-radziwill-on-the-real-housewives-kennedys-and-more.html .

 

I think Kristen is denying the Radar story-I would since the careful writer and editors at Radar referred to her husband Josh as John throughout the story.  Kristen and Josh went too far last year and it didn't work.

Edited May 22, 2015 by zoeysmom

[ScoobieDoobs]

Like we said, this was another one of Radar's completely fabricated stories. Kristen disputes it herself in the video posted a few posts up.

 

She states the opposite from the "sources" here. Even then, can Kristen really make those demands? Let me think about it for a minute. Yeah, no.

 

OK, so Kristen denies the Radar Online story about her not wanting to show her marriage on the show.  Is she telling the truth?  Maybe, maybe not.  I wouldn't necessarily discount the the Radar Online story completely.  We're seeing nothing of Josh speaking.  Of course Kristen can't make much (or any) in the way of demands.  No shit.  

 

But they can be much more subtle about their cooperation with the show.  Josh isn't signed to the show.  His wifey is.  If he doesn't wanna participate as much as he did last season, he's not obligated to.  If they're not showing him speaking much -- or at all, it's clearly because he's not giving them anything interesting to include.  Er, duh.  I still say, he saw what a dickhead he looked like last season & doesn't trust the producers, so he's pulled back significantly.  Can't blame him for that.  Or maybe he just knows he's a dickhead & the best way he can come off on camera is by keeping his trap shut.

 

IMO, Andy ruined RHONY by bringing Beth back to the show.  I tune into see the elegance and glamour of NY, but most of all I like to see fun friendships these women use to have.  It's obvious B does not care to have a real friendship with any of her cast-mates.

 

Actually, it could have been a great idea to bring B back, but only if she was willing & able to show more of her new life as a millionaire, and only if she absolutely agreed to consistently mingle & interact sincerely & wholeheartedly with all (or at least most) of the other cast members.  None of that is happening.  

 

To get a retread of the whining & crying about her past Bethenny, we've seen so many times before, is tired.  And a Bethenny who clearly has zero interest to spend more than a few seconds with any of this cast is even worse.  Will this change?  Doesn't seem likely.  Despite the girls trip she took to Miami with Carole, I'm suspect whether they are tight.  Seemed like it was for the sake of photo ops & for something to chat about at the reunion.  Um, not good.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[motorcitymom65]

Carole does not have 50 million dollars. When asked about it she said, "I think what they met is 50 millions pesos."  This is straight out of Carole's mouth http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/carole-radziwill-on-the-real-housewives-kennedys-and-more.html .

 

I think Kristen is denying the Radar story-I would since the careful writer and editors at Radar referred to her husband Josh as John throughout the story.  Kristen and Josh went too far last year and it didn't work.

The very idea that Kristen would ask the film crew to not document any arguments is just silly. If she doesn't want to show the real stuff that goes on at home she would just tell Josh/John to make like they are happy when the crew arrives. Heck, maybe they did and that is why we don't see much of her this year. Bottom line, if Kristen or Heather were reluctant to show what is going on in their lives, they would have gotten the "Lu" treatment of last year. I will assume they filmed plenty of stuff but that it didn't make it off the cutting room floor because Beth was a more attractive prospect. I would imagine people are kicking themselves over that decision now. One thing I have learned from the "lost footage episodes" is that so often the stuff they cut is much more interesting than what Bravo decides to show us. 

[imjagain]

Um, my screen name is actually a nickname given to me by my friends. I didn't always love it, but it's not the hill I chose to die on. YMMV.

I used to joke a lot about how "lazy" I was and how I didn't work, and finally had to stop when it turned out that even people I knew had started to take it seriously! I had my own consulting firm with the same clients for a decade, so I thought my work/achievements spoke for themselves. But yeah ... you can't overplay making light of things because people will believe it.

I'm still unabashedly Team Heather and Team Carole, so I think we all see the HoWives and their actions through the filtered lens of our personal likes and dislikes.

Thank you for posting this. I agree, I really like Heather and dislike Beth so that colors my view on things they say and do. I don't agree when someone bashes Heather but hey, that's their opinion. We can't take the posts personally. I have seen a few posts where I felt bad that some posters felt they had to defend the wife getting picked on. It'sjust people disagreeing with each other's opinion about a housewife. Let's all please not take this stuff too personally or seriously.

Ramona has always been my least favorite NY housewife, and I haven't even really had a chance to snark ol'Ramona yet, now that makes me sad:(.... :)

Edited May 22, 2015 by imjagain

[LotusFlower]

If they're not showing him speaking much -- or at all, it's clearly because he's not giving them anything interesting to include. Er, duh.

Or they just have too much footage from too many Housewives, so scenes with Kristen and Josh got scrapped for the return of the B, or new scenes with newbie Dorinda and the Dirty Drycleaner. Seems like a more plausible explanation to me. Who knows?

[zoeysmom]

Some people are just like that. It's a personality trait that's not meant to offend, but rather to be friendly on the quick. I don't really get it, cuz I'm not like that, but I see people who do it, and I think it's kind of nice. It's almost always warm-hearted, friendly people who do it. Like Heather, come to think of it!

This is shocking, but I'm going to give Kim Richards a compliment - on RHOBH a few seasons back, a friend-of HW kept calling Kim "Pam" instead of her name (by mistake), and Kim just laughed it off. She not only didn't care, but she sort of adopted the name....it became their thing. * Why not be light-hearted about it? If it really bothers you, say something. But usually people don't care.

* Come to think of it, she might have been drunk!

P.S. I've noticed a lot of us frequent posters abbreviate other's names - without permission, and no one seems to care! Sometimes I am just too darn lazy to type out "Motor City Mom," so I use initials. Uh oh - who have I offended?

- LotusFlower, Lotus, LF, whatever!

There is always LoFlo-I kid.

[LotusFlower]

There is always LoFlo-I kid.

I like it! Thanks, ZoMo!

[ScoobieDoobs]

Or they just have too much footage from too many Housewives, so scenes with Kristen and Josh got scrapped for the return of the B, or new scenes with newbie Dorinda and the Dirty Drycleaner. Seems like a more plausible explanation to me. Who knows?

 

Andy definitely made some obvious choices to feature Bethenny's whining, as well as Dorinda (along with the dirty dry cleaner & the eyebrowed daughter) & Carole's hipster/teeny-bopper shit.  And everybody else mostly got shoved off into oblivion.  Sonja has her delusions -- and that's it for her.  Kristen can at least look pretty, even if nothing she says is in any way interesting.  Well, her clothes & hair look nice.  And when we do see Lu, she mostly just seems nasty, cutting & snide.  

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm a bit annoyed there's much less Moaner.  She was featured in the beginning of this ep, with her party & her Star Wars bar friends, but she, like the rest of 'em, got booted from this ep cuz Andy had to make way for Bethenny & her wah-wah-wah-ing.  I just hope this isn't the way the rest of the season is gonna go.  Heather really got left in the dust.  Kinda hoping she beats the fuck outta Bethenny (verbally, that is, of course), but I don't think that's gonna happen cuz B is clearly Andy's fav & he is paying her that million bucks.

 

Ramona has always been my least favorite NY housewife, and I haven't even really had a chance to snark ol'Ramona yet, now that makes me sad:(.... :)

 

I know, me too, but dang, she sure can say some pretty horrible stuff that's fun as heck for us to snark on.  I mean, next week's preview looks hilarious.  Moaner's getting on Lu's case for talking shit about John when we just saw her in this ep saying a ton of nasty crap about him.  Um, I suspect Lu would have to wait in line with all the other people who would love, love, love to shove Moaner's head into that caviar.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[LotusFlower]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm a bit annoyed there's much less Moaner. She was featured in the beginning of this ep, with her party & her Star Wars bar friends, but she, like the rest of 'em, got booted from this ep cuz Andy had to make way for Bethenny & her wah-wah-wah-ing. I just hope this isn't the way the rest of the season is gonna go.

I just read the episode description for next week, and guess what? Another therapy session for Bethenny with her therapist, and Bethenny reveals she won't be attending Dorinda's planned party in the Berkshires. So it seems - more Bethenny, and more of the same.

[ryebread]

That's not quite right.  They had already purchased their apartment and were living in it when they were asked if they wanted to include the chair in an auction.  This was not a unique chair -- there were many of them that Jackie had given out as gifts over the years.  It had no particular meaning for Anthony, so he put it in the auction and was amused and delighted when the Prince of Monaco bought it.  They used the money to do a big renovation on their apartment.  They didn't need to sell the chair in order to finance their home.

 

 Bolding mine.  Carole said in her book that it was one of two rocking chairs that JFK used in the Oval Office.  Pretty unique and historically significant, imo. 

 

However, if Anthony sold it, you're probably right that it had "no particular meaning" for him.  Or else they needed the money.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ryebread

[pbutler111]

Um . . . When did *anyone* say - let alone suggest - that Carole and Anthony were "impoverished losers" or "selfish assholes"? It simply stands to reason that if you have 50 million dollars in assets, you wouldn't need to sell an heirloom of historical and personal significance in order to put a down payment on a loft because you'd already have discretionary funds. And, conversely, if you have to sell off possessions in order to raise that down payment, you probably don't have a lot of cash at your disposal . . . Kristen herself has given interviews this year in which she has disclosed that her marriage/family dynamics were "off limits" to producers this season.

 I actually covered this in a previous post.  Not only was the chair in question NOT "an heirloom of historical and personal significance" -- it was actually a chair they'd stuck in storage because neither of them liked it -- they did NOT sell it in order to raise money for a down payment on an apartment.  They had already purchased the apartment and were living in it when they were approached about including the chair in the auction of Jackie Onassis's possessions and agreed to do so because they wanted to get rid of it anyway.

[pbutler111]

 Bolding mine.  Carole said in her book that it was one of two rocking chairs that JFK used in the Oval Office.  Pretty unique and historically significant, imo. 

 

However, if Anthony sold it, you're probably right that it had "no particular meaning" for him.  Or else they needed the money.

I'm not sure in what way a rocking chair is historically significant, but okay.  And if it makes some segment of folks happy -- for reasons I can't begin to fathom -- to think that Carole and Anthony were desperate for money at the time for some mysterious reason (and it wasn't because they needed to buy an apartment, because they'd already done that, and they got half a million upon Jackie Kennedy's death), then I guess that's just what folks are going to do.  I honestly have no idea the point of this entire conversation.  Some folks think they had too little money; some folks think they had just enough money; some folks think they had way too much money.  It's turned into the fucking Goldilocks of pointless conversations.

[Lola16]

So I watched it again and freeze-framed it when they showed the notes of Bethenny's therapist (/don't judge!). It read:

* No home, homeless

* Michael (I think that was her bf)

* Last session she focused on the divorce and Jason accepting or not the offer.

Can't help but think showing the scribbled notes was deliberate, ie. another dig at Jason, by showing that she made an offer, and Jason is the one holding out...

Another observation - the therapist saying that Bethenny was "deeply" in love with Jason. Say what now? I know he was featured in many of her spin-offs. Did I miss the one where they were ever deeply in love?

I think the doc scribbles to keep himself awake during the session.

[lunastartron]

Well, plenty of people invest objects with historical relevance and importance due to the identity of the owners of said objects. It's a significant reason why auction houses exist and bidders pay exorbitant prices for previously owned goods. I think a chair that occupied the Oval Office during a much mythologized Presidency would qualify for the term. I would also think that a piece of furniture passed down from the family of one's deceased godfather might have some degree of personal import, but even if Anthony didn't regard it with any degree of emotion, that's cool, too. The point of this thread of discourse is that an assertion - that Carole was "the wealthiest" woman on the show - was raised and an organic dissection of the probable veracity of that statement ensued. No one has written that Carole and Anthony were "losers" or "assholes" or, really, framed them pejoratively vis-a-vis their financial security or lack thereof.

[sasha206]

I'm not sure in what way a rocking chair is historically significant, but okay.  And if it makes some segment of folks happy -- for reasons I can't begin to fathom -- to think that Carole and Anthony were desperate for money at the time for some mysterious reason (and it wasn't because they needed to buy an apartment, because they'd already done that, and they got half a million upon Jackie Kennedy's death), then I guess that's just what folks are going to do.  I honestly have no idea the point of this entire conversation.  Some folks think they had too little money; some folks think they had just enough money; some folks think they had way too much money.  It's turned into the fucking Goldilocks of pointless conversations.

 

The point:  Is it money that led her to do a show that, for an author and news producer, seems beneath her?  And you posited that she was already wealthy, so that surely can't be the reason why! 

Well, plenty of people invest objects with historical relevance and importance due to the identity of the owners of said objects. It's a significant reason why auction houses exist and bidders pay exorbitant prices for previously owned goods. I think a chair that occupied the Oval Office during a much mythologized Presidency would qualify for the term. I would also think that a piece of furniture passed down from the family of one's deceased godfather might have some degree of personal import, but even if Anthony didn't regard it with any degree of emotion, that's cool, too. The point of this thread of discourse is that an assertion - that Carole was "the wealthiest" woman on the show - was raised and an organic dissection of the probable veracity of that statement ensued. No one has written that Carole and Anthony were "losers" or "assholes" or, really, framed them pejoratively vis-a-vis their financial security or lack thereof.

 

Excuse me for saying this, but that whole paragraph is sexy.  I love you.  :)

[Mondrianyone]

I'm not sure in what way a rocking chair is historically significant, but okay.

I'm guessing you're pretty young.  For those of use who were alive during Kennedy's presidency, even if we were very young kids, there's no question about how historically, or at least symbolically, significant a rocking chair can be.  Just go to Google Images and search for JFK rocker.  Some of the most memorable photos in the Oval Office involved his rocking chair.  He used it because he'd injured his back very badly rescuing a burned crewman from the boat he commanded in WWII.  He swam miles in the Pacific to get the man to safety.  So the chair represented the presidency, and a kind of heroism, and even those of us who had no family connection to Kennedy felt its significance.  Not saying that Carole and her husband needed to be sentimental about one of those chairs.  Just pointing out that it was an emblem of something important for a lot of people.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/noel-serrano/the-story-of-the-kennedy-presidential-rocker/10152183585041778

[Celia Rubenstein]

Is this Carole's boyfriend who tried out for Cosmo Bachelor of the year or something about 5 years ago?

 

Oh, that is an juicy find, Lemons! (see what I did there????) 

 

So.  I guess Chef Baby Greens (™ Ryebread)  is not too interested in the limelight, is he?  HA!

 

YES. This should be written pinned at the top of every RHNY thread. Sometimes I wonder if there are some sock puppet accounts here, lol!

 

I have a great suggestion for whenever you think you are dealing with a "sock puppet" situation.   Just take a deep breath and remind yourself that in this big, wide world, it is actually possible that there is more than one person who disagrees with your opinion, lol.  You'll be surprised how quickly the paranoia passes.

 

Re: Bethenny/Beth ... Didn't Bethenny's stepfather call her "Beth" at one point in their discussion?  Maybe that is why she didn't like Heather calling her that.  It was what she was called when she was younger and she doesn't care for the reminder, while being called "B" is fine with her.  Just a guess.  I know I hate when my family calls me by the shortened version of my name that was my childhood nickname.  I'd be seriously unhappy if anyone else did.  And not because of any painful reminders or anything.  I just HATE it!

[laschifosavita]

Re: Bethenny/Beth ... Didn't Bethenny's stepfather call her "Beth" at one point in their discussion?  Maybe that is why she didn't like Heather calling her that.  It was what she was called when she was younger and she doesn't care for the reminder, while being called "B" is fine with her.  Just a guess.  I know I hate when my family calls me by the shortened version of my name that was my childhood nickname.  I'd be seriously unhappy if anyone else did.  And not because of any painful reminders or anything.  I just HATE it!

 

He did.  I have one of those names that can be shortened in many different ways, and there's one that I only associate with one relative and brings up unhappy memories.  I correct anyone that uses it.  Something in pop culture made it briefly a regular joke for people to make, and I was definitely less polite than Bethenny to anyone that I had to ask not to use it more than once, especially if I hadn't known them all that long.

[TheFinalRose]

Here's what irks me about Carole, the writer. She knows it took her years to write each of her books; she always said how long it took for her to write TWG, and then the other night was, for me at least, the first time I remember her alluding to the fact that it also took her about the same length of time to write What Remains. So, knowing that her creative process is a long one, why did she sign a contract agreeing to deliver a second book in a time period which she has never met before, and probably knew would be a challenge for her?

 

I wrote professionally for a trade magazine (nonfiction) and had deadlines I had to meet. I've also written creatively (fiction), and while I had no trouble (or enjoyment) out of meeting the magazine deadlines I know I could never write creatively with a firm deadline hovering over me.  It just ruins the fun.  So I feel for Carole, but then on the other hand, if someone paid me thousands of dollars upfront for work I would damn well meet their deadlines. 

 

Other than that I wish Carole would film all the time in her apartment, sitting on that sofa. I love it.  

 

As for Bethenney, I love her. I never seem to get irked with her, like I do with Heather. I probably wouldn't enjoy being close to Bethenney in real life, but she is a perfect tv character.  And Heather I do not miss at all this season, because I find her to be really really really bossy.  

[Lizzing]

I believe it is fairly well documented that Carole's husband Anthony was tight with his cousin, JFK, Jr.  If selling off the chair of Anthony's uncle by marriage were THAT big of a deal, JFK, Jr. would have said something and Anthony would have respected  his wishes, even if JFK weren't a huge political figure, and just some guy with a posh antique collection.

 

There is a bit of evidence that Josh has taken a step back from being part of Kristen's storyline this season, at least so far.  There are those, like me, who pay too much attention to the minutia, but lots of viewers probably don't and didn't even see that the boxer guy was sponsored by Eboost.  Given that in almost every scene last season, Josh was wearing something with the Eboost logo, and the one time we saw him this season (at Dorinda's cocktail party), he wasn't sporting logos, he nor Kristen connected the sponsorship dots on camera.  Kristen's lower amount of camera time might be good for her marriage, even if it isn't good for her retention on the show.

 

But all that's neither here nor there, since it's pretty clear to me (OPINION!) that Beth is supposed to be the focus this season.  I really wish it weren't, because I really, really like Dorinda and respect her straight forward blogs.  They're like Carole's blogs, her first season.  I want to get Carole back to that, and not so much with the "Carrie Bradshaw" posturing with her writing at a laptop open above a street facing window.  Ramona, Dorinda, Carole, LuAnn, and Heather could have been a great main cast.  Kristen and Sonja could be Friends Of.  And "Bethenny On Her Own" could have been a half hour spin off, somewhere between RHoNY and MMLoNY.

[ryebread]

It's turned into the fucking Goldilocks of pointless conversations.

 

You mad, bro?  I personally flove this discussion for whatever reason it originated.  Far from pointless.  Several enjoyable minutes were spent researching JFK memorabilia due to our little Fuss 'N' Discuss about JFK's rocking chair.  Snarky AND educational.  Suck it, TWOP, this would've never happened there.

 

Did you know that exact chair was in Jackie O's apartment until the day she died.  At which point it became Anthony's. 

 

Even though JFK was Anthony's godfather (I did not KNOW!) and JFK Jr. was their best friend AND it sat in the White House AND in Jackie's living room, it had no significance to Anthony and Carole so they sold it. 

 

I think it would've looked snazzy with Carole's Scalamandre sofa from Lee Radziwill.  Of which she has said she's received offers for that would, "Fund a summer home in France”.  

 

Of which is a slight exaggeration but Carole knows a little somethin' somethin' about using important furniture pieces to acquire real estate. 

[Mozelle]

Other than that I wish Carole would film all the time in her apartment, sitting on that sofa. I love it.

So I really loved that moment of her sitting in the couch while on the phone for a number of reasons. The main reason was that the camera looked down from above, and the entire space was filled with that golden, early evening light. It looked so beautiful. The biggest reason for why I chose the apartment I'm in now is because I saw it at 9:30 in the morning during the summer two years ago. Sooooo much sunlight flooded the space because it's on the east side of the building.

The other reason why I loved that scene is because I imagined the folks who can't stand Carole being agitated and irritated that she was talking and giggling with Adam. I couldn't help chuckling.

[Nanny pants]

Ah, Carole and her new found love of boxing...another affection, I fear. Doesn't Joyce Carol Oates have a long time fascination with boxing? Does Carole actually believe that no one who watches the Real Housewives shows could possibly be literate enough to make this observation.

[ryebread]

Not only was the chair in question NOT "an heirloom of historical and personal significance" -- it was actually a chair they'd stuck in storage because neither of them liked it -- they did NOT sell it in order to raise money for a down payment on an apartment.  They had already purchased the apartment and were living in it when they were approached about including the chair in the auction of Jackie Onassis's possessions and agreed to do so because they wanted to get rid of it anyway.

After submerging myself in all things about that damn chair, I have to revisit this because in all due respect you are wrong about it not being of historical significance.  My patriotism is insulted. J/K, sort of.  Carole said that once they found out another rocker (not one that had been in the Oval Office) sold at auction for 400K, they sold theirs to renovate their apartment.  So it's true that it had no personal significance for them.  But definitely a monetary one.

 

The buyer, Prince Rainier of Monaco started the John F, Kennedy Museum Foundation and loans the chair to museums also disagrees with your opinion of the lack of historical significance.   There were many JFK rockers but only 2 that were in the Oval office.  This is one of them.

 

Topic:  Carole's apartment at night.  Very sexy.  Earlier, I posted a link to a picture of it in her thread. 

 

I didn't notice any giggling when she was on the phone with Adam because I was too busy squirming with embarrassment.

[pbutler111]

I think it would've looked snazzy with Carole's Scalamandre sofa from Lee Radziwill.  Of which she has said she's received offers for that would, "Fund a summer home in France”. 

Of which is a slight exaggeration but Carole knows a little somethin' somethin' about using important furniture pieces to acquire real estate.

 

Since she's never done that, probably not.

[pbutler111]

After submerging myself in all things about that damn chair, I have to revisit this because in all due respect you are wrong about it not being of historical significance.  My patriotism is insulted. J/K, sort of.  Carole said that once they found out another rocker (not one that had been in the Oval Office) sold at auction for 400K, they sold theirs to renovate their apartment.  So it's true that it had no personal significance for them.  But definitely a monetary one.

 

The buyer, Prince Rainier of Monaco started the John F, Kennedy Museum Foundation and loans the chair to museums also disagrees with your opinion of the lack of historical significance.   There were many JFK rockers but only 2 that were in the Oval office.  This is one of them.

 

Topic:  Carole's apartment at night.  Very sexy.  Earlier, I posted a link to a picture of it in her thread. 

 

I'm not sure what I was wrong about.  I said they didn't sell the rocker to purchase their apartment, and they didn't.  I said they used the money from the rocker to renovate their apartment, and they did.  Not every piece of furniture that's ever sat in the oval office is historically significant, just by virtue of having sat in the oval office.  Material objects that may seem incredibly precious to some to others are just that -- material objects, not objects of worship.  To you and I (and the Prince of Monaco) the chair might seem valuable because JFK's ass once touched it.  To Anthony Radziwill it might've just seemed like another family hand-me-down that didn't go with the overall decor.  It's all in your perspective.

[Nanny pants]

Posters here have commented on Art Basel and it's "weirdness". Exactly. That is the backbone of Art Basel, a forum for modern, progressive art in all it's glorious forms: painting, sculpture, mixed media, performance art, etc. if the show(s) make observers uncomfortable, so much the better.

[Sincerely Yours]

It isn't. That is the point. It is impersonal. A nickname should be given by someone who knows you, not someone who decides for whatever reason they do not want to call you the name you have introduced yourself as. If Bethanny (or anyone) said to Heather "Hi, I am Beth" or "Hi, I am B" it would make sense to call her that.  Simple. I have just met a new group of women through a sport I am playing. I call them the names they have introduced themselves as. A couple know each other and may have pet names for one another but I would never in a million years call someone I do not yet know a name other than the one they have introduced themselves as. Why would I? Why would anyone? Again, simple.

Why, well because some people just do, with no ill intentions. They don't over think it. Simple.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[motorcitymom65]

After submerging myself in all things about that damn chair, I have to revisit this because in all due respect you are wrong about it not being of historical significance. My patriotism is insulted. J/K, sort of. Carole said that once they found out another rocker (not one that had been in the Oval Office) sold at auction for 400K, they sold theirs to renovate their apartment. So it's true that it had no personal significance for them. But definitely a monetary one.

The buyer, Prince Rainier of Monaco started the John F, Kennedy Museum Foundation and loans the chair to museums also disagrees with your opinion of the lack of historical significance. There were many JFK rockers but only 2 that were in the Oval office. This is one of them.

Topic: Carole's apartment at night. Very sexy. Earlier, I posted a link to a picture of it in her thread.

I didn't notice any giggling when she was on the phone with Adam because I was too busy squirming with embarrassment.

Rye, thanks for the research. I am loving this lesson this morning. I'm kind of disappointed that the chair didn't mean more to them, but everyone feels things differently.

Her apartment is all kinds of sexy.

Edited May 22, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[Sincerely Yours]

Um, my screen name is actually a nickname given to me by my friends.

 

***I didn't always love it, but it's not the hill I chose to die on. YMMV.

 

 

 I love this especially the last sentence.

[Sincerely Yours]

I'm not sure in what way a rocking chair is historically significant, but okay.  And if it makes some segment of folks happy -- for reasons I can't begin to fathom -- to think that Carole and Anthony were desperate for money at the time for some mysterious reason (and it wasn't because they needed to buy an apartment, because they'd already done that, and they got half a million upon Jackie Kennedy's death), then I guess that's just what folks are going to do.  I honestly have no idea the point of this entire conversation.  Some folks think they had too little money; some folks think they had just enough money; some folks think they had way too much money.  It's turned into the fucking Goldilocks of pointless conversations.

Something that spent time in the oval office has no historical significance? Something that belonged to JFK? Umm okay!

[ryebread]

To Anthony Radziwill it might've just seemed like another family hand-me-down that didn't go with the overall decor.  It's all in your perspective.

 

Funny thing is:

 

On the subject of her and Anthony’s new apartment – Carole writes:  “We disagreed immediately on the décor.  He has a couch covered in tiger velvet that doesn’t quite seem to fit in the living room and he has mismatched chairs.”  Of course – the tiger velvet sofa is her new mother-in-law Lee Radziwill’s old sofa – and one of the mismatched chairs is a clumsy rocker that was once Anthony’s uncle President John Kennedy’s.

 

To me, and I realize I'm biased LOL, it sounds like Anthony was perfectly happy with his mother's sofa and godfather's iconic chair.  Until Carole came along....bahahahaha

 

I'm moving on now, because it's a vacation day for many and the mods shouldn't have to work any harder than they already do.

 

Adored this discussion and all I learned.

[Sincerely Yours]

I'm not sure what I was wrong about.  I said they didn't sell the rocker to purchase their apartment, and they didn't.  I said they used the money from the rocker to renovate their apartment, and they did.  Not every piece of furniture that's ever sat in the oval office is historically significant, just by virtue of having sat in the oval office.  Material objects that may seem incredibly precious to some to others are just that -- material objects, not objects of worship.  To you and I (and the Prince of Monaco) the chair might seem valuable because JFK's ass once touched it.  To Anthony Radziwill it might've just seemed like another family hand-me-down that didn't go with the overall decor.  It's all in your perspective.

They started calling those rockers "JFK Rockers".  That pretty impressive to me.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[sasha206]

In agreement with all:  I love seeing Carole's apartment.  It is all sorts of sexy.  

[Otherkate]

I'm guessing you're pretty young.  For those of use who were alive during Kennedy's presidency, even if we were very young kids, there's no question about how historically, or at least symbolically, significant a rocking chair can be.  Just go to Google Images and search for JFK rocker.  Some of the most memorable photos in the Oval Office involved his rocking chair.  He used it because he'd injured his back very badly rescuing a burned crewman from the boat he commanded in WWII.  He swam miles in the Pacific to get the man to safety.  So the chair represented the presidency, and a kind of heroism, and even those of us who had no family connection to Kennedy felt its significance.  Not saying that Carole and her husband needed to be sentimental about one of those chairs.  Just pointing out that it was an emblem of something important for a lot of people.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/noel-serrano/the-story-of-the-kennedy-presidential-rocker/10152183585041778

 

I had no idea about any of this! Thanks for the info. 

So I really loved that moment of her sitting in the couch while on the phone for a number of reasons. The main reason was that the camera looked down from above, and the entire space was filled with that golden, early evening light. It looked so beautiful. The biggest reason for why I chose the apartment I'm in now is because I saw it at 9:30 in the morning during the summer two years ago. Sooooo much sunlight flooded the space because it's on the east side of the building.

 

 

Seriously, that shot was amazing. Carole's apartment is gorgeous.

[quaintirene]

Guys, sometimes a rocking chair is just a rocking chair!  It meant less to Carole and her late husband than a new bathroom or whatever.  And that in my opinion is perfectly fine.  It's concerning me that we are being led off the topic of the show and into a discussion which can never have an end.  Can we agree to disagree that Carole may have either (1) done the right thing because it was just a chair or (2) acted callously and greedily to improve her apartment at the expense of a piece of US history.  From my point of view there are tons of things to snark on about Carole.  I think she is vain, self-centred, trying-too-hard-to-be-cool, a bad, careless and late writer and on and on and on.  She gets on my nerves something fierce.  I really like Bethenny who I think is really funny and really smart.  (But that doesn't mean I want to be your real-life pal Bethenny!  So lose my phone number please!)   I'm likely to bag on one and defend the other.  But not to the death!

 

Getting into these kinds of fights is like driving into a cul-de-sac.  There's just no way out.

Edited May 22, 2015 by quaintirene

[Trooper York]

This is the biggest controversy about a chair since the famous chair that broke up the Jackson Five. As you might recall the family singing group dissolved when Tito sold the easy chair that Michael sat in when he composed all of their early hits.

Michael really loved that chair. So much so that many rumors were spread about it.

So much so that Michael had to address the controversy in his immortal song "Billiejean" when he stated emphatically that "The Chair is Not My Son."

Edited May 22, 2015 by Trooper York

[Lemons]

I'm not sure in what way a rocking chair is historically significant, but okay.  And if it makes some segment of folks happy -- for reasons I can't begin to fathom -- to think that Carole and Anthony were desperate for money at the time for some mysterious reason (and it wasn't because they needed to buy an apartment, because they'd already done that, and they got half a million upon Jackie Kennedy's death), then I guess that's just what folks are going to do.  I honestly have no idea the point of this entire conversation.  Some folks think they had too little money; some folks think they had just enough money; some folks think they had way too much money.  It's turned into the fucking Goldilocks of pointless conversations.

 

I don't care about Carole and Anthony's money.  I had never heard of either of them before this show.  But I do know about the famous rocking chair related to President Kennedy and I wasn't around back then!  President Kennedy had horrible back pain and used that rocking chair to help ease the pain.  There are tons of pictures of Kennedy sitting in that rocking chair. 

 

Say what you want, but please don't dismiss the historical significance of the rocking chair that was at the White House.  If it wasn't significant, I don't think some prince or king would bother buying it.  And I don't think it would have brought enough money for Carole and her late husband to have renovated their apartment. 

[Sincerely Yours]

Aside from some rather over the top rants the JFK topic although off topic was very entertaining and informative and I enjoyed the new personal tidbits of information that came from it.

 

So I am glad for that, however I do agree there's nothing left to see here. :-)

 

I think the piss poor job production is doing in giving us anything entertaining to stay focused on contributes to why we can be derailed like this and it says volumes. LOL!

 

I mean lets see:

 

Sonja working out in her bathroom

Lame phone conversation with giggles

Bethenny and her issues

Off hand remark made by Lu

A clown

Nakey

 

I mean now wonder we're discussing the JFK rocker! LOL... Like I said that was a fun trip into "Did you know....?" land and I for one had a blast! So thanks to those of you that contributed positive information about it.

I don't care about Carole and Anthony's money.  I had never heard of either of them before this show.  But I do know about the famous rocking chair related to President Kennedy and I wasn't around back then!  President Kennedy had horrible back pain and used that rocking chair to help ease the pain.  There are tons of pictures of Kennedy sitting in that rocking chair. 

 

Say what you want, but please don't dismiss the historical significance of the rocking chair that was at the White House.  If it wasn't significant, I don't think some prince or king would bother buying it.  And I don't think it would have brought enough money for Carole and her late husband to have renovated their apartment. 

Here, Here.. The lengths one goes to. I mean what it basically boils down to is that somebody was mistaken. Plain and simple. Acceptance brings peace... ;-)

Edited May 22, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[LotusFlower]

As you might recall the family singing group dissolved when Tito sold the easy hair that Michael sat in when he composed all of their early hits.

Was that the hair that caught on fire? During the Pepsi commercial taping? I can see why it's so valuable.

[Lemons]

Here, Here.. The lengths one goes to. I mean what it basically boils down to is that somebody was mistaken. Plain and simple. Acceptance brings peace... ;-)

 

No problem if someone is mistaken.  But I don't see anyone admitting to be mistaken.  And sorry, but I couldn't let it go that someone was trivializing the history of President Kennedy.  Especially when it involves some in-law like Carole making the decisions.  OK, I'm done. 

[LotusFlower]

Ah, politics! Are we going to make it through 2016? I'm worried! (Kidding. I love talking politics. Something tells me the mods don't....)

[Trooper York]

Sorry there was a missing "C" in there.

 

Luckily with all the girls in the Real Housewives we are never missing a "C." Just sayn'

[Mondrianyone]

I'm done, too.  I knew it was off-topic, but I thought it was interesting.  And I also thought that writers, or would-be writers, are the people who most understand the power of symbols.  Clearly that isn't always the case.  Peace.

[chlban]

Guys, sometimes a rocking chair is just a rocking chair!  It meant less to Carole and her late husband than a new bathroom or whatever.  And that in my opinion is perfectly fine.  It's concerning me that we are being led off the topic of the show and into a discussion which can never have an end.  Can we agree to disagree that Carole may have either (1) done the right thing because it was just a chair or (2) acted callously and greedily to improve her apartment at the expense of a piece of US history.  From my point of view there are tons of things to snark on about Carole.  I think she is vain, self-centred, trying-too-hard-to-be-cool, a bad, careless and late writer and on and on and on.  She gets on my nerves something fierce.  I really like Bethenny who I think is really funny and really smart.  (But that doesn't mean I want to be your real-life pal Bethenny!  So lose my phone number please!)   I'm likely to bag on one and defend the other.  But not to the death!

 

Getting into these kinds of fights is like driving into a cul-de-sac.  There's just no way out.

ITA.  I was a Carole Fan in the beginning but I can barely stand her now. I do recall the mention of selling the chair in her first book, which is a wonderful, moving book, and I seem to recall that they did need the money, to renovate or buy, I don't recall which or care. It was their chair, through Jackie, and their choice. Just because they sold that particular chair does not mean they don't have other mementos of the late President.  I do know the Radziwell's, while rich by my standards, were not so rich by say, Onassis or HIlton standards. 

 

I don't care for the whole sex in the city routine Carole is trying to pull off and I am not sure I buy much, if any, of it. Kristen isn't bugging me as much this year, but that is probably because she seems to barely be in it, which works for me. Still don't like Dorinda.  I do like Bethanny, I can't help it and she is exactly the type of woman I could hang with.   

[ZaldamoWilder]

Look at us in here policing ourselves!   Looks like this thread ate a snickers.   Couldn't be more proud. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

No problem if someone is mistaken.  But I don't see anyone admitting to be mistaken.

 

Well, it went back to a comment from someone confidently posting how Carole was worth 50 mil & she's the richest one on the show.  And that was clearly dead wrong, and rightly corrected by many here.  It doesn't matter if someone refuses to admit he/she is wrong.  When a statement is made that's so off kilter, it's great so many here are looking out & are so observant!

 

Anyhoo, in Sonja townhouse sighting news . . . 20 mph breezes today, but all her damn windows are still open!  I still say -- WTF?  I mean, sheesh, who the hell in NYC leaves all their windows open?  With the exception of a few days outta the year, the weather here sucks so badly, you mostly don't wanna leave your windows open.  Hmmmm, from the looks of that bathroom, maybe she needs to air the whole place out, eh?

Edited May 23, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ZaldamoWilder]

Tito sold the chair and is still broke?   smh.  who bought it? 

[Trooper York]

M.C. Hammer.  His check bounced.

[Sincerely Yours]

No problem if someone is mistaken.  But I don't see anyone admitting to be mistaken.  And sorry, but I couldn't let it go that someone was trivializing the history of President Kennedy.  Especially when it involves some in-law like Carole making the decisions.  OK, I'm done. 

Correct.. Just to clarify the acceptance remark wasn't for you it was actually for aheeemmmmm..... nevermind. ;-)