There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane

[pigs-in-space]

Thank you funky-rat for the excellent summary.

Quote

When they found out the title, Jackie begged HBO to change it.  They did not.

Well, I can't say I blame HBO for not changing it. It's a great name, and very evocative.

[funky-rat]

41 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

Thank you funky-rat for the excellent summary.

Well, I can't say I blame HBO for not changing it. It's a great name, and very evocative.

I definitely agree that it is, but I can see Jackie's point that it's essentially the last words her daughter said to her before she died.  

I'm going to see if Openlibrary has the Bastardi family's book.  From what I understand, it's oddly written, and full of venom for Danny and Warren, but if they have it, I'll check it out.

[heatherchandler]

On 9/21/2019 at 4:55 PM, funky-rat said:

Most of the rest of the book deals with her suicide plans, and then her pregnancy.  She dreamed she met the girls at the gates of Heaven.  It was vivid.  She said God told her she couldn't enter because she was being offered a gift (frozen embryos) and it was a sin to waste it.  The fertility doctor, who worked with celebrities, gave the services for free, but she didn't want to go through with it.  Before that, she wanted to kill herself.  When priests told her she would go to hell, she wanted Warren to kill her.  When he says no, she wanted to kill him.  She didn't care about jail, and he could be with the girls to take care of them.

Aaaand I am now crying at work.  I've read the book, I forgot about some of that.

I am definitely in the Diane's suicide camp.  I don't know about a psychotic break.. from what I understand, there is no such thing as snapping - you can have mental illness and descend into a break, but there is no such thing as a person living "normally" and then all of a sudden, madness.  That's why I believe something upset her that day, and she just drank and drank and decided it was time to die.  I think the kids were collateral damage. 

26 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I'm going to see if Openlibrary has the Bastardi family's book.  From what I understand, it's oddly written, and full of venom for Danny and Warren, but if they have it, I'll check it out.

Ooh if you do get it and read it, please let me know if it is worth a read!

[funky-rat]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Ooh if you do get it and read it, please let me know if it is worth a read!

They don't have it, unfortunately.  

[CherryMalotte]

On 9/21/2019 at 12:08 AM, funky-rat said:

9)  There had been strong rumors before the toxicology came out that Diane and Danny had a fight that morning and HE asked for a divorce. 

Thank you funky-rat for reading the book and giving such a good summary.  In relation to this about the divorce, does Jackie elaborate on where these rumors came from?

I have to say that I did initially think she just drank and drugged herself into this beyond caring that she would be hurting/killing her children and nieces.  Sadly I think I'm convinced that it was probably suicide, and figured her children would be better off dead with her than alive with Danny.  She obviously was past any rational thinking about sparing Warren and Jackie's girls.  

Would still like to know what the friends were holding back on saying in the documentary.      

[funky-rat]

14 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

Thank you funky-rat for reading the book and giving such a good summary.  In relation to this about the divorce, does Jackie elaborate on where these rumors came from?

I have to say that I did initially think she just drank and drugged herself into this beyond caring that she would be hurting/killing her children and nieces.  Sadly I think I'm convinced that it was probably suicide, and figured her children would be better off dead with her than alive with Danny.  She obviously was past any rational thinking about sparing Warren and Jackie's girls.  

Would still like to know what the friends were holding back on saying in the documentary.      

She didn't say where the rumors came from, which was frustrating, but she more takes the high road in her book, and doesn't go in to any salicious details.  She obviously knows the family history, but says nothing other than their mother had an affair and left the family, and that Warren made an effort with her when Jackie was pregnant after the girls died because he was tired of carrying grudges. 

From what I understand and the reviews I read, the Bastardi's book is full of venom and spares no details or allegations, but I'm not inclined to pay the price that Amazon is asking (something like $25) - even for the e-book (I think it's $9 or $10).  I could only see me reading it once.  I can get free books through openlibrary, but it's not available through their service (Jackie's was, and that's how I read it).

[BookWoman56]

@funky-rat, was there any explanation in the book as to why Jackie was so concerned that Diane couldn’t handle all of the kids by herself for the camping trip? I can easily see Jackie thinking that Danny would be useless, but wondered if she had specific qualms about Diane or just thought 5 kids would be too much for anyone to handle solo.  I guess it’s too much to expect, but I would really like for someone who knows to state whether Diane was in the habit of having a few drinks too many, or if she drank occasionally but not to excess. 

This situation reminds me of one of those unsolved murders where the cops know who did it but have no evidence. That is, somebody in the family knows a lot more about the dynamics of Diane’s marriage and her normal behavior patterns than what was presented in the documentary. 

[funky-rat]

1 minute ago, BookWoman56 said:

@funky-rat, was there any explanation in the book as to why Jackie was so concerned that Diane couldn’t handle all of the kids by herself for the camping trip? I can easily see Jackie thinking that Danny would be useless, but wondered if she had specific qualms about Diane or just thought 5 kids would be too much for anyone to handle solo.  I guess it’s too much to expect, but I would really like for someone who knows to state whether Diane was in the habit of having a few drinks too many, or if she drank occasionally but not to excess. 

This situation reminds me of one of those unsolved murders where the cops know who did it but have no evidence. That is, somebody in the family knows a lot more about the dynamics of Diane’s marriage and her normal behavior patterns than what was presented in the documentary. 

Not really.  She was extremely protective of her kids - like Jay said in the move, they were her full-time job.  She would frequently feel guilt if she paid more attention to one than the other, and would feel conflicted between letting them have awesome experiences, but them also being out of her control.  She had also started to notice that the middle child (Alyson) was showing possible signs of not being happy with her body (Emma was tall and lanky, and Alyson was shorter and slightly pudgy - she would have likely outgrown that - with a rounder face), comparing herself to her older sister all the time (they were only a year apart).  Jackie battled (and occasionally still does battle) Bulimia, and was scared for her daughter.  She made a huge effort to buy her clothing that was like her sister's but flattered her body type to try to hold it off.

She said the trip the year prior went very well and the girls had a great time, and were excited to go back, but Mr. Hance went on that trip with Diane and Danny.  When she found out he wasn't going because he had something else going on, she brought it up to Diane and Danny.  Danny said he would be driving up the night before to set everything up, and it would be ready when they got there the next day, and they would all drive home together (this is why she was surprised when she called Danny's cell phone after the calls started, and woke him up).  Diane told her she'd find another adult they all knew to come along, but everyone was busy.  I'm not sure if she told Jackie that ahead of time, or when she showed up.  They loaned Diane the van because ALL of the kids were in car seats (Emma was in a booster, and all of the other kids were in full car seats) and they figured it would be easier for her to handle as opposed to whatever car Diane would normally drive (not sure what kind) - she also made mention that her van had a 3rd row of seats.  She did say she trusted Diane, and the kids had a good time the year prior and were excited, so in the end, she pushed through her feelings and let them go.

Jackie did make specific mention that Diane was late picking up the girls.  Very late.  She does not, however, make any mention as to why she was so late.  Warren had said his goodbyes to the girls because he had something to go do (can't remember off the top of my head what it was) and he was surprised when he got home, and they were all still there.  He played off his concern by being excited that he got a chance to say goodbye to the girls again, and gave them all a big hug.  She said Diane told them all to go pee before they left, because she wasn't stopping once they got on the road.

The girls called a few times during the weekend and talked to Jackie, and told her how much fun they were having, and she said everything seemed to be going well.  She had expressed some concern with Kate not being a good swimmer (she was taking lessons) but she knew Emma would watch over her, and that she'd be wearing proper devices to help her.  The girls talked about swimming and going to the arcade on their phone calls, but Jackie doesn't mention anything else specific.

I don't know if either of them had any legit ideas that Diane was as much of a mess as she was after reading this.  Jackie suspected Danny had problems (had a DUI when he was in his 20's, and battled anxiety, and she suspected he smoked pot to calm down, but had no proof), but I'm not sure they knew how messed up she appraently was.  I did get the feeling Warren bailed her out of various situations over the years, but for reasons I can't explain, I suspect it was more financial type stuff, rather than bad behavior.  I don't know this for sure, but just got a really strong feeling about it after reading the book.

The book was slightly confusing about the whole police thing, but what I took from it was that Jackie was concerned and she called Warren.  Warren worked right near their house and was home very quickly (he owned his own business and he was at the office).  They did call police fairly quickly, but they were essentially told that if they didn't know where Diane was, there wasn't much they could do.  So they called someone they were friends with who was a cop, and he came over and started making calls.  In the interim, Warren got in touch with the girls, and had them read the road signs.  So they called police again, and were told that Tarrytown was a different jurisdiction, and to call them (no offer to transfer them).  They got the number and called, and were told something like Diane and the girls weren't there (in their precinct) and weren't super helpful.  So that's when Warren grabbed his dad and set out to find her.  Jackie was at the house, which was now full of friends and people trying to help, making calls, etc.  When Warren and his dad arrived at Tarrytown, Diane wasn't there.  They went inside, and were told that she probably stopped at a diner down the road if she wasn't feeling well, and to go check there.  She wasn't there, obviously.

So while it was all somewhat confusing, I got a few thoughts from that part:

1) They did call police quickly.

2) Warren left to go find her only after being told to hang up and call someone else without receiving much help from police.  And he only left because a number of people were at the house, making calls and trying to keep Jackie calm.

3) Apparently - at least at that time - the police didn't have some sort of system where they could pass people from one jurisdiction to another.  If they did, they didn't use it.

4) I got the feeling the police didn't take Warren or Jackie seriously.  That they considered her just a panicked mother.  When Warren wanted them to "ping" her cell phone, Danny had to give permission (which he did).

The Bastardis run a website (it's hard to navigate and done cheaply) and they are rather venemous about Warren trying to hide things by not calling cops, but that's not entirely true.  They cite Jackie and Warren not calling 911 until a certain time per their phone records ,but there were other people at the house calling on their personal cell phones, and Warren and Jackie were calling non-911 police numbers because they were instructed to.  Plus Warren and Jackie were also on their cell phones, so I don't know if they're looking at just the landline, or not.  I tend to believe Warren and Jackie.   They're very detailed about what happened - it just was hard for me to put it in to "real time".

I hate to down cops completely, and in 2007, with someone calling saying they think their kids might be in danger but they don't know where the car is, or have any other real details, I suppose there wasn't a ton much that could be done, but still, to just send them away to a diner down the road, or to tell them to hang up and call someone else just seems so counterproductive, and cold.

My guess is that her being apprehensive about letting the girls go was a combination of thinking that pretty much most adults would struggle with 5 kids under the age of 10 (and knowing Danny was useless on top of it).  She said that she knew Emma would keep an eye on the other kids, as she always did, but still, it's a lot for one person to handle.  Plus there tends to be safety in numbers when you have more adults.  My guess (but I may be wrong) was that she was more concerned about the kids getting injured at the campground than them not coming home at all.

[BookWoman56]

Thanks for the information, @funky-rat. I got curious enough to buy the Bastardi book from Kindle and just read it pretty quickly. I wouldn’t recommend it; while it attempts to describe the devastation to their family, it’s not written well and adds little of value to the story as a whole. There were a few items of interest, but most of them were rumors rather than hard facts:

(1) Danny was supposedly having an affair with the babysitter, who ended up moving in a while after the crash. The Bastardi family thinks possibly Danny was with the babysitter on Thursday, when he initially claimed he had gone to the campsite alone that day and done some fishing. He later changed his story when his highway pass showed he didn’t drive up until Friday. They speculate that Diane found out about the affair, and it wasn’t his first, and spent much of the weekend drinking. 

(2) Supposedly the cops told the Bastardi family early on that the Schuler and Hance families were not cooperating and were lying. 

(3) The Bastardi theory is that Danny knew Diane was drunk when he left the campsite, and spun the story of her being fine to avoid being charged as an accessory. Ditto Warren telling the cops and so forth that Diane was simply feeling unwell when she called; if she had sounded drunk, he might be liable for failing to call 911 ASAP. 

(4) Again based on rumor, Jackie asked Warren for a divorce the day after the accident. To the Bastardi family, this means she felt Warren knew Diane was drunk and didn’t escalate to the cops immediately because he didn’t want her to get a DUI. 

(5) They feel that the idea Diane was perfectly sober that morning before leaving the campsite is nonsense, and that the impression she was sober is based primarily on Danny’s account and some vague statements by the campsite manager, who wouldn’t want to say that a camper was drunk for various reasons. 

(6) Apparently Danny was to receive $100K from HBO for the documentary, and it was put into an escrow account controlled by his attorney, who then swiped at least part of it and was later disbarred or something on unrelated problems. 

(7) They took exception to Jackie Hance refusing to talk to the cops. This for me was the hardest part to comprehend. Their idea is that if she really didn’t know what happened, she should have been pushing the cops to investigate everything, and her refusal to cooperate means that she also knew Diane was drunk from talking to her, and she went along with Warren’s plan to find Diane before the cops did to avoid a DUI. 

(8) The “wrong numbers” dialed from Diane’s cell phone were misdialed numbers that the cops think the kids were trying to place. The calls that went through were done using a speed dial function. So, no real mystery there after all. Although the Bastardi family was seeking to get phone records for everyone at the Hance house, Danny’s phone, etc., because they essentially feel that it was the delay in anybody notifying law enforcement of what was happening that gave Diane enough time to get back on the road and crash.

Nothing in the book changed my mind one way or another. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Danny were having an affair, Diane found out about it and he asked for a divorce. She had a couple of shots, poured some vodka into her soft drink from McDonald’s, at some point talked to Warren and told him about Danny’s affair and possible divorce, and Warren was focused on getting her calmed down. I agree he didn’t anticipate that she would get back on the road, and his failure to consider that option and tell his daughters to just refuse to stay in the minivan will haunt him forever. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by BookWoman56

[funky-rat]

6 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

Thanks for the information, @funky-rat. I got curious enough to buy the Bastardi book from Kindle and just read it pretty quickly. I wouldn’t recommend it; while it attempts to describe the devastation to their family, it’s not written well and adds little of value to the story as a whole. There were a few items of interest, but most of them were rumors rather than hard facts:

(1) Danny was supposedly having an affair with the babysitter, who ended up moving in a while after the crash. The Bastardi family thinks possibly Danny was with the babysitter on Thursday, when he initially claimed he had gone to the campsite alone that day and done some fishing. He later changed his story when his highway pass showed he didn’t drive up until Friday. They speculate that Diane found out about the affair, and it wasn’t his first, and spent much of the weekend drinking. 

(2) Supposedly the cops told the Bastardi family early on that the Shuler and Hance families were not cooperating and were lying. 

(3) The Bastardi theory is that Danny knew Diane was drunk when he left the campsite, and spun the story of her being fine to avoid being charged as an accessory. Ditto Warren telling the cops and so forth that Diane was simply feeling unwell when she called; if she had sounded drunk, he might be liable for failing to call 911 ASAP. 

(4) Again based on rumor, Jackie asked Warren for a divorce the day after the accident. To the Bastardi family, this means she felt Warren knew Diane was drunk and didn’t escalate to the cops immediately because he didn’t want her to get a DUI. 

(5) They feel that the idea Diane was perfectly sober that morning before leaving the campsite is nonsense, and that the impression she was sober is based primarily on Danny’s account and some vague statements by the campsite manager, who wouldn’t want to say that a camper was drunk for various reasons. 

(6) Apparently Danny was to receive $100K from HBO for the documentary, and it was put into an escrow account controlled by his attorney, who then swiped at least part of it and was later disbarred or something on unrelated problems. 

(7) They took exception to Jackie Hance refusing to talk to the cops. This for me was the hardest part to comprehend. Their idea is that if she really didn’t know what happened, she should have been pushing the cops to investigate everything, and her refusal to cooperate means that she also knew Diane was drunk from talking to her, and she went along with Warren’s plan to find Diane before the cops did to avoid a DUI. 

(8) The “wrong numbers” dialed from Diane’s cell phone were misdialed numbers that the cops think the kids were trying to place. The calls that went through were done using a speed dial function. So, no real mystery there after all. Although the Bastardi family was seeking to get phone records for everyone at the Hance house, Danny’s phone, etc., because they essentially feel that it was the delay in anybody notifying law enforcement of what was happening that gave Diane enough time to get back on the road and crash.

Nothing in the book changed my mind one way or another. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Danny were having an affair, Diane found out about it and he asked for a divorce. She had a couple of shots, poured some vodka into her soft drink from McDonald’s, at some point talked to Warren and told him about Danny’s affair and possible divorce, and Warren was focused on getting her calmed down. I agree he didn’t anticipate that she would get back on the road, and his failure to consider that option and tell his daughters to just refuse to stay in the minivan will haunt him forever. 

Thanks.  Most of the reviews were pretty cricital, so I was hesitant unless I could get an e-copy for free.  Now I don't need to bother.  The free excerpt on Amazon is written pretty poorly, and I likely would have struggled.

My heart breaks for the Bastardi family, but they're making some big stretches there.  Perhaps they should start hanging out with Jay?  They can swap conspiracy theories.

I'd heard about the $100K - it was reported in a number of news articles, but Jackie said she doesn't believe he got anywhere near that much, and the doc producers have also said the same thing.

Jackie and Warren got a lawyer fairly quickly, sadly out of necessity, and because both of them were just shattered, the attorney did advise them to not speak to police initially, but they did when they were in a better frame of mind.  Jackie was heavily sedated - not sure about Warren.  Most attorneys would hand out the advice to stay quiet.  The only cover-up I might believe would be from the police, lest someone question their somewhat un-helpfulness on that day.

I could believe there was an affair.  Danny and Diane were on opposite schedules.  Would be easy for one or both to fool around.  If it was her, then she was no better than her mom.  If it was him, then she was in the same boat as her dad.  Not going to end well either way.  Plus, they seemed to be pretty co-dependent.  He needed her because he was essentially a man child, and she needed him for the appearance of a happy family.  I could see it all going to hell that morning.  She could have found out about him not going up Thursday like you said - she could have checke the EZPass record for completely benign reasons, like making sure she had enough money on the account (I have done that) or to make sure the card on file was still good.  Could be another reason why they drove back separately, and he went home and went to bed.  Could be why Diane was so late picking the girls up and demanded they go to pee so she didn't have to stop.  Maybe she never tried to find another adult to go.  Who knows?  Only her, and possibly Danny.  One can't talk, and the other one won't.

[BookWoman56]

I don’t blame Warren and Jackie for getting an attorney at all, and can completely understand Jackie not talking to the cops while she was sedated. The Bastardi family seemed to blame Warren and Jackie as if they somehow knew exactly how drunk Diane was that day, which I think is unreasonable. And as you said, any coverup is most likely to be the various local law enforcement agencies not wanting to admit that Warren and anybody else calling that day were shunted around and not actually helped. 

I do agree with their overall assessment of Danny, that his motivation for his statements about Diane were strictly CYA. 

As for Warren and Jackie, if in fact they tried to alert law enforcement as soon as they could and Warren went looking for Diane out of frustration that he wasn’t getting anywhere with the cops, then I don’t know what else they could have done to prevent this. They didn’t have ESP to know how the weekend was going to play out, and that Diane was going to drive drunk and high, whether accidentally or deliberately. 

My impression of the case overall is that while Diane liked a few drinks at times and smoked weed on the weekends to relax, something happened that weekend or that morning to set her off, she saw that her “perfect” family life was about to be shattered, and she decided to just end everything for herself and her kids, with her nieces being collateral damage. Oddly enough, the Bastardi family assumed at first that Diane had done this as a deliberate suicide, and seemed much more accepting of that idea than of Diane being drunk and having killed all the victims just by driving drunk. 

I feel sorry for the Bastardi family, but they came across as vindictive not just toward Danny, who I think deserves a lot of the blame here, but also toward Warren and Jackie, whose loss of their three kids must have been overwhelming. 

[funky-rat]

8 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

I don’t blame Warren and Jackie for getting an attorney at all, and can completely understand Jackie not talking to the cops while she was sedated. The Bastardi family seemed to blame Warren and Jackie as if they somehow knew exactly how drunk Diane was that day, which I think is unreasonable. And as you said, any coverup is most likely to be the various local law enforcement agencies not wanting to admit that Warren and anybody else calling that day were shunted around and not actually helped. 

I do agree with their overall assessment of Danny, that his motivation for his statements about Diane were strictly CYA. 

As for Warren and Jackie, if in fact they tried to alert law enforcement as soon as they could and Warren went looking for Diane out of frustration that he wasn’t getting anywhere with the cops, then I don’t know what else they could have done to prevent this. They didn’t have ESP to know how the weekend was going to play out, and that Diane was going to drive drunk and high, whether accidentally or deliberately. 

My impression of the case overall is that while Diane liked a few drinks at times and smoked weed on the weekends to relax, something happened that weekend or that morning to set her off, she saw that her “perfect” family life was about to be shattered, and she decided to just end everything for herself and her kids, with her nieces being collateral damage. Oddly enough, the Bastardi family assumed at first that Diane had done this as a deliberate suicide, and seemed much more accepting of that idea than of Diane being drunk and having killed all the victims just by driving drunk. 

I feel sorry for the Bastardi family, but they came across as vindictive not just toward Danny, who I think deserves a lot of the blame here, but also toward Warren and Jackie, whose loss of their three kids must have been overwhelming. 

Yeah, I'm sorry for the Bastardi family, but they need to find their peace.  If they must spew the venom, direct it at Danny, but that's honestly a waste of time.  After reading Jackie's book, I'm satisfied that they did everything they could.  She's incredibly open about a lot of stuff, and the police have never said anything about her or Warren not handling things correctly - I think they would have.  I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[BookWoman56]

Getting back to the documentary itself, while I found it frustrating at times, it feels like the creator opted to just let viewers see how far Danny was willing to go to deflect any blame, no matter how ridiculous the notion became that the toxicology reports must have been wrong, the autopsy report must have been wrong, there must have been an underlying medical condition, because Diane would not have been drunk and high. All of that nonsense, primarily so nobody could accuse him of having seen her drunk and still driving away with only the dog. One other rumor from the Bastardi book was that Warren and Jackie both cut off all contact with Danny as soon as he did that press conference, and I could also see that happening. 

ETA: Regarding the Bastardi complaint that Jackie wasn’t pushing the cops to find answers and somehow that indicated she knew Diane was drunk, the toxicology report came out fairly quickly. Up until that point, Jackie might have known on a gut level that Diane was drunk, but the report made it official. After that, what was left to investigate? 

I don’t buy into the Bastardi conspiracy theory regarding Warren and Jackie. A telephone conversation would have been insufficient grounds for the cops to charge Warren or Jackie with anything. Danny, OTOH,   has obviously interacted with Diane F2F just prior to them leaving the campsite, and if he knew she was drunk, he possibly could have been charged with something. I regard just about anything he said as suspect, but whether he knew Diane was drunk or thought she would drink, get high, and then drive because she was so upset about his actions, his entire focus since the crash has been how unfair it has been for his life. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by BookWoman56

[teapot]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:49 PM, BookWoman56 said:

Nothing in the book changed my mind one way or another. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Danny were having an affair, Diane found out about it and he asked for a divorce. She had a couple of shots, poured some vodka into her soft drink from McDonald’s, at some point talked to Warren and told him about Danny’s affair and possible divorce, and Warren was focused on getting her calmed down. I agree he didn’t anticipate that she would get back on the road, and his failure to consider that option and tell his daughters to just refuse to stay in the minivan will haunt him forever. 

The clerk at 7-11 and the McDonald's workers said that she seemed fine, though, didn't they?  The "drunk at camp" doesn't track according to that

[funky-rat]

11 minutes ago, teapot said:

The clerk at 7-11 and the McDonald's workers said that she seemed fine, though, didn't they?  The "drunk at camp" doesn't track according to that

Not sure.  Reports are so conflicting. I read some where they said she was calm at McDonald's, and others that said she was insistent and persistent.  The pervasive thought is that she started drinking at McDonald's.

The convenience store clerk refused to speak to police, and she was in there such a short amount of time that I don't know how he could tell.

[BookWoman56]

10 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Not sure.  Reports are so conflicting. I read some where they said she was calm at McDonald's, and others that said she was insistent and persistent.  The pervasive thought is that she started drinking at McDonald's.

The convenience store clerk refused to speak to police, and she was in there such a short amount of time that I don't know how he could tell.

Exactly. I don’t necessarily believe the Bastardi idea that she was drunk before she left the campsite, but I wouldn’t say her behavior at either McDonald’s or the convenience store proves anything either way. People can come across as insistent while completely sober or drunk. Unless she was falling down, OTT as-portrayed-on-film “drunk,” I don’t think the staff at either location could make a definitive assessment of her sobriety. 

This does remind me of one of the crazier conspiracy theories that I think the Bastardi book mentioned as coming from Jay, that some employee at the McDonald’s had been busted for drugs previously, and gotten so annoyed that Diane insisted on the specific meal she did, that the employee spiked her soft drink with some random drug. Because yeah, that makes sense and completely negates the BAC numbers, except for the part where it completely doesn’t. 

The thing that most reviewers of the Bastardi book slammed the most was something that was pretty insensitive. At one point they heard on the news that Brian/Bryan? (survivor of the crash) was being moved from the hospital to a rehab center. A couple of Bastardi family members made some comments that they expected Danny’s legal team to make medical excuses for why the child couldn’t be interviewed by the cops. The Bastardi family thought the child was old enough to have observed his mother drinking or something, and should be subject to interrogation by law enforcement. Again, while I understand their frustration, the child had been both physically and psychologically traumatized, and was in no condition to be interrogated. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by BookWoman56

[funky-rat]

22 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

Exactly. I don’t necessarily believe the Bastardi idea that she was drunk before she left the campsite, but I wouldn’t say her behavior at either McDonald’s or the convenience store proves anything either way. People can come across as insistent while completely sober or drunk. Unless she was falling down OTT as portrayed on film “drunk,” I don’t think the staff at either location could make a definitive assessment of her sobriety. 

This does remind me of one of the crazier conspiracy theories that I think the Bastardi book mentioned as coming from Jay, that some employee at the McDonald’s had been busted for drugs previously, and gotten so annoyed that Diane insisted on the specific meal she did, that the employee spiked her soft drink with some random drug. Because yeah, that makes sense and completely negates the BAC numbers, except for the part where it completely doesn’t. 

The thing that most reviewers of the Bastardi book slammed the most was something that was pretty insensitive. At one point they heard on the news that Brian/Bryan? (survivor of the crash) was being moved from the hospital to a rehab center. A couple of Bastardi family members made some comments that they expected Danny’s legal team to make medical excuses for why the child couldn’t be interviewed by the cops. The Bastardi family thought the child was old enough to have observed his mother drinking or something, and should be subject to interrogation by law enforcement. Again, while I understand their frustration, the child had been both physically and psychologically traumatized, and was in no condition to be interrogated. 

I think it was in Jackie's book that the families had all seen the McDonald's footage with the police, but it's never been released to the public.  I don't know why, and they don't say why.  But the general consensus of just about everyone I've seen talk about this - even those with varying opinions - all seemed to agree that the drinking likely started at McDonald's.  She had time, she had opportunity to slip out to the car with her large orange juice while the kids were playing, and it just makes sense.

Yes, Jay was floating around a theory about their being a drug bust at that McDonald's a few weeks prior, and Diane's insistence on Chicken Selects for Bryan ticked someone off enough to put drugs in her OJ (there was a drug bust, but the rest is, IMO, pure fantasy).  Jackie said that while she liked Jay and found her smart and well-spoken, she would call and talk for HOURS about all kinds of consipracies, and to me, that just shows tremendous lack of self-awareness.

I've just about lost all sympathy for the Bastardi's.  Bryan remembers nothing.

[BookWoman56]

Yes, as disgusting as I found Danny’s BS insistence that no, Diane wasn’t drunk despite the various lab tests that showed she was, I thought the Bastardi family came across as hellbent on finding someone living to blame. There were several mentions of them wanting a grand jury to be convened, and they didn’t like it when the cops eventually told them that Diane was the only person who could have been charged with a crime, and with her dead, there was nobody left to charge.  

I just don’t see what purpose a grand jury would serve other than revealing dirty laundry. No matter why Diane drove while drunk and high, the results are the same. Do I think Danny’s general uselessness and possibly having an affair and asking for a divorce contributed to Diane’s decision to drive while intoxicated? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make him legally liable in any way for the crash, unless he literally watched her chugging down vodka and made no effort to prevent her from driving. Not that I would put it past him or slipping her a sleeping pill, but only if he was sure she’d end up killing herself and both kids, with zero chance of any survivors who might require care and attention. In much the same way it came across in the documentary that Jay was looking for a story she could tell herself in which Diane wasn’t to blame, in the book the Bastardi family was clearly looking for someone still alive who could be sent to prison. 

[BookWoman56]

I got around to reading Jackie Hance’s book. Only a few things to add to the excellent summary upthread:

Jackie definitively states that she had never seen Diane drink excessively, or else she would not have let her kids travel with her. She had seen Diane drink a single beer on occasion or a pina colada or two, nothing more. 

When the call came from Emma upset and saying something was wrong with Diane, Jackie was questioning Emma but apparently Diane took the phone away and told Jackie the kids were just playing around. Her speech was so slurred that Jackie freaked out, and when Warren walked in a few minutes later, Jackie told him that Diane sounded drunk. She says in the book she assumed Diane was having a seizure of some kind or a stroke. 

Warren called Diane, and it was obvious she was incapable of having a coherent conversation. He flatly told her to stay where she was and not get back in the car. He called his father so there would be a 2nd driver to retrieve the minivan, and on his way out the door, told Jackie to call the cops and 911. She did so and got nowhere, due to not having a specific location, not being able to provide the tag number, and being told it was the wrong jurisdiction, etc. 

Warren drove to where he thought Diane was, where he had told her to stay, and when she wasn’t there, he and his father went to the police station, where the cops had already heard from Jackie. They assured Warren they had already checked the area, and told him most likely Diane would be at a diner if she had felt unwell. Warren and his father went to the diner, found no trace of Diane, returned to the police station, and were sent to the hospital where Bryan had been taken. Once there, Warren got the news about all the fatalities. The youngest daughter had still been alive at the crash scene, but died at the hospital she had been taken to. 

Apparently Jackie was not often in touch with Danny, as she didn’t have his cell phone number and had to get it from someone else. There’s a little bit of confusion about the original plans for Danny and the camping trip. At one point in the book, Jackie mentions that Danny was supposed to stay at the campsite after Diane and the kids left, so he could clean up the camper. Maybe the plan changed, but regardless, Jackie talked to him and he was groggy, and was presumed to have been sleeping in preparation for working that night. 

When the toxicology report came out, Jackie was completely shocked and furious. She had been thinking the tox results would show nothing, and an autopsy would show a medical event such as a stroke or something.

Danny’s press conference extremely angered Jackie and Warren. It sounds as if initially Jackie thought Danny was being misled by his attorney, but as time went on, she blamed him for his unwillingness to face the facts and for doing the documentary, which to Jackie was unwanted publicity and self-serving on his part. Jackie may have made her peace with Diane, but it sounds as if neither she nor Warren will ever forgive Danny. Not sure if she blames him for any role he may have played in contributing to Diane’s mental state that day, or only for his actions after the accident, but she has zero use for him. 

As stated previously, there were no revelations in the book to absolutely confirm  the idea of purely accidental drunkenness or a deliberate suicide to include the kids. But I am still left with the impression, based on the documentary and both this book and the Bastardi book, that something happened that morning to trigger Diane to a point she decided she would rather die and not leave her kids to be neglected by Danny, and so she started drinking at the McDonald’s and smoked some weed to work up the nerve to do it. 

[funky-rat]

I felt her pain, and no longer hold her responsible for not getting to the police quickly enough.  She and Warren both tried - I don't believe they're trying to hide anything.  As I mentioned prior the whole "She's probably at the diner" thing blew my mind.  It was smart of her to call their friend who was an officer, and he tried too, but got nowhere fast.

I don't recall reading the part about the plan of Danny staying behind to clean up, but it wouldn't shock me, and I was having a bout of insomnia during part of my read, and could be forgetting it.  I do recall her saying at least at one point that she thought Diane and Danny were driving back together, and was puzzled when Danny answered the phone, half asleep.

I think Diane was "edgy" the whole weekend, and like you said, something pushed her over the edge.  Her being very late to pick up the girls.  Her being kind of snippy about them not stopping to pee once they got on the road (With 5 kids under the age of 10?  Not likely.).  Her not being able to find an adult to come along (and possibly being annoyed at the prospect that it was suggested she needed help).

I don't think Jackie looked down her nose at Diane, and yes, she did say that she didn't see Diane get drunk ever, and she said that Warren adored her, but I just got this feeling that Jackie and Diane weren't super close.  Jackie talks frequently about her network of friends from her neighborhood, but not a lot about Diane, and while it could be that she just doesn't want to talk about her, I also just didn't get the feeling they spent a ton of time together.  A gut instinct, similar to the impression that I got that Warren dug both Diane and their dad out of binds more than once.  No proof - just a gut feeling.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

When the call came from Emma upset and saying something was wrong with Diane, Jackie was questioning Emma but apparently Diane took the phone away and told Jackie the kids were just playing around. Her speech was so slurred that Jackie freaked out, and when Warren walked in a few minutes later, Jackie told him that Diane sounded drunk. She says in the book she assumed Diane was having a seizure of some kind or a stroke. 

I can't even begin to imagine how frightening that phone call would've been to hear. Your stomach would be doing somersaults at that point, I'd think. 

Quote

Warren drove to where he thought Diane was, where he had told her to stay, and when she wasn’t there, he and his father went to the police station, where the cops had already heard from Jackie. They assured Warren they had already checked the area, and told him most likely Diane would be at a diner if she had felt unwell. Warren and his father went to the diner, found no trace of Diane, returned to the police station, and were sent to the hospital where Bryan had been taken. Once there, Warren got the news about all the fatalities. The youngest daughter had still been alive at the crash scene, but died at the hospital she had been taken to. 

Oh, Jesus :(. All that running around, all that hope that maybe they'd find them...and then it's all dashed to hell just like that. Heartbreaking.

[BookWoman56]

I went back to the book to check the comment about when Danny was supposed to leave the campsite, and it occurs on page 21, after Jackie has made some phone calls and gotten frustrated. She mentions that she would call Danny, because he would be the last person to have seen Diane, and might know something. That’s when she says that Diane and the girls had planned to leave first, with Danny staying behind to clean the camper. Which personally strikes me as some nonsense that Diane might have told Jackie, because the idea of Danny cleaning up anything seems farfetched. In any event, it’s another example of how the original plan changed. If the plan was for Danny to go up a day early, as he originally claimed to have done and then recanted, plus stay there after the others left to clean up, then those plans changed a lot. Again, to me that ties into the speculation that Danny was having an affair, lied about his plans to give himself some free time with a girlfriend, and things blew up that morning. 

I also got the impression that Jackie and Diane weren’t especially close, but that Jackie thought Diane was trustworthy and a doting mother and aunt. Jackie definitely took the high road for most of the book, and didn’t reveal a lot about Diane other than her previous trust in her and her anger at her driving drunk. 

The part of the book where Jackie is describing the chain of events after the conversation with Emma is hard to read, because as a reader you know how things turned out. As soon as Warren left to find Diane, Jackie felt relieved while obviously still worried. She assumed Diane would stay put as told, and that they were at a rest area where other adults could reassure the kids. Even when she hears the rumors that there’s been an accident, she initially believes it won’t be anything major. That’s when she thinks that Emma is going to have a broken leg, as karmic payback for Jackie having fibbed about a broken leg to get out of a commitment. She then starts worrying that someone might be brain dead, but one of her friends tells her to stop thinking that way. The entire time, though, she is assuming that if there are injuries, it would just be limited to one or two people. Like with the Bastardi family being in disbelief that all three of their family members and friend are gone, Jackie can’t initially comprehend that all three of her kids are dead.  The scene where she runs screaming out of the house and down the street to the house of the older woman who used to babysit the girls is gut wrenching. I can’t imagine how incredibly difficult that would be to process. 

While the book wasn’t intended to be a companion piece to the documentary, it fills in some of the gaps and details. It definitely confirmed my impression of Danny as a sleazy loser who exploited the tragedy for financial reasons and refused to take any responsibility for what occurred. Jackie doesn’t mention it specifically, but my sense is that she believes Danny did or said something that morning to send Diane into a rapid downward spiral, resulting in the crash. 

[funky-rat]

I agree about her thinking Danny did something to push her over.  She specifically mentions rumors of a fight and divorce request, but does not elaborate.  And yes, the part where she runs to the house of the older Italian woman tore me apart.  Also the part where Warren is getting the girls' beds our of the house.

When Danny texted "OMG.  YOU ARE SICK.  GET HELP", I wish Warren would have beaten the ever loving shit out of him.

Edited October 15, 2019 by funky-rat

[BookWoman56]

Yes, I generally don’t condone violence but if Warren had confronted Danny and punched him out, I couldn’t have blamed him. 

One small thing from the book that goes against the idea that Warren knew or believed that Diane had a drinking problem: When Jackie first tells Warren that Diane had slurred speech and sounded drunk, Warren’s response was, “Impossible.” Obviously this is just my interpretation, but if he thought or knew she drank a lot sometimes, it seems as if his response would be something different, such as “Oh, shit,” or “I’m going to kill her,” or something that indicated anger instead of disbelief at the idea of Diane driving drunk. So I am really wondering if Diane was just a very occasional and low key drinker rather than secret heavy drinker, and that’s part of why the entire family was so shocked at the toxicology report. That doesn’t negate her decision to drink a ton of vodka and smoke weed, and drive, though, but it makes me skeptical that she was simply accustomed to driving while lit and misjudged the quantities she was consuming. Someone upthread suggested she went to the convenience store in search of Tylenol specifically because of the likelihood the combination of vodka and Tylenol would kill her, and I think that’s a good idea. I think she wanted to die and was past caring if she took other people with her. 

Jackie mentioned in her book that during the roughest times between her and Warren after the accident, she didn’t feel she could leave him because he had been so devastated when his mother left. Maybe Diane also had such an aversion to divorce and breaking up a family that she decided death was better than being put in the same position her father had been, deserted by a spouse having an affair. And the father (the elder Mr. Hance) came across as not especially supportive or able to empathize after the accident, and I wondered if he was also that distant with Diane when the mother left and he became the sole custodial parent to Diane. 

ETA: Regarding the impression that Jackie wasn’t especially close to Diane, from Jackie’s comments about her friends, it seemed like most of her close female friends were SAHMs like herself. So I suspect that Jackie and Diane weren’t as close in large part because Diane was the primary breadwinner in her own family. Between her job, taking care of her kids, and taking care of her man child husband, Diane probably had minimal time to socialize with other adults. So I don’t really see the closeness or lack thereof between Jackie and Diane as indicative of anything other than very different schedules.  Which is not to say they would have been BFFs if Diane had also been a SAHM, but just that even if so inclined, Diane didn’t have the same flexibility in scheduling that Jackie and her other friends did, to get together for coffee or something during weekdays. Jackie did say at one point that she had loved Diane like a sister, but I would think any socialization would be on weekends. From what she said, it seemed like a normal relationship with a SIL, except it was very apparent that Jackie didn’t care for Danny. My impression was that nobody in Diane’s family liked Danny or had any use for him. OTOH, in almost any family, there’s going to be a token spouse or other in-law that everybody else can barely tolerate. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by BookWoman56

[SunnyBeBe]

I finally watched most of this again.  I now believe that it was a drunken, rage filled murder/suicide.  It's rare, but, does happen to women sometimes.  The way this happened was just so horrific though. 

No doubt she was a troubled, probably miserable person, who finally had enough, before she decided to punish others by going out with all the children. 

From all the photos they showed of Diane, it appeared that in the one taken of her on the ground, after her death at the scene of the crime, she was much larger than in any of those earlier photos. 

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I finally watched most of this again.  I now believe that it was a drunken, rage filled murder/suicide.  It's rare, but, does happen to women sometimes.  The way this happened was just so horrific though. 

No doubt she was a troubled, probably miserable person, who finally had enough, before she decided to punish others by going out with all the children. 

From all the photos they showed of Diane, it appeared that in the one taken of her on the ground, after her death at the scene of the crime, she was much larger than in any of those earlier photos. 

It has to be murder/suicide.  Very true, it is rare but it happens.

Those photos are really disturbing.  I think she was pretty heavy at the time of her death, you can see in the video of her at the gas station when she is looking for tylenol.  I think she looks extra large because her body swelled up after the trauma of the accident.  Her shirt is ripped, too, and I just think of how much trauma happened to the bodies.

I am glad there are not any death photos of the kids.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by heatherchandler

[SunnyBeBe]

Sadly, we had a wife/mother murder one of her children attempting to murder two, as well as killing herself in a fire a couple of years ago in my community. She was very much loved, considered an incredible mother, involved in church, and seemed fine. So, it was very shocking to all involved. There was an intensive investigation that concluded positively that she planned and carried out the murder suicide for some time. She did it after her 6 year-old got on the bus for school, but, while her two younger children, twin 3 year-old boys, were home with her.  One of them survived.  

https://www.wral.com/rolesville-house-fire-ruled-a-murder-suicide/15214382/

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I've been looking for a thread for the HBO documentary Boy Interrupted, which is about a teenage boy who commits suicide.  His mother is the producer. I haven't been able to find it.  I thought it was well done. 

[Brooklynista]

On 5/26/2020 at 6:36 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I've been looking for a thread for the HBO documentary Boy Interrupted, which is about a teenage boy who commits suicide.  His mother is the producer. I haven't been able to find it.  I thought it was well done. 

Was this the teenager who jumped out of his bedroom window? I vaguely remember the doc but like you never found a forum.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Brooklynista

[SunnyBeBe]

1 minute ago, Brooklynista said:

Was this the teenager who jumped out his bedroom window? I vaguely remember the doc but like you never found a forum.

Yes, it was.  The boy had threatened to kill himself since he was a young child.  It was very bizarre.  Finally, he got stable on medication and they decided to stop the medication!  Odd choice, imo, but, anyway, he does what he had threatened to do for years.  Jumped out of a window after a big argument with his mother. 

Perhaps no one started a thread for it. 

[ChicksDigScars]

I'm still on the drunk/stoned out of her mind train, not the murder suicide train. If it was just Diane and her own kids, perhaps that would be logical, as to "teach Danny a lesson." But the fact that she was also transporting her three nieces, leads me to believe that it was not intentional, just careless stupidity. She had no reason to "get back" at her brother, that we know of. Just Danny.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ChicksDigScars

[LemonSoda]

I don’t want to create a post that takes up an entire page to read because I’d love to quote so many of you. I’d like to second the person who stated it’s great that we can all agree to disagree without any drama. 

Jackie’s book is a tough and very emotional read. I don’t consider myself a sensitive person at all but I had to put it down several times because the emotions were so intense. A few times I’d have to go back and re-read a page because I missed a fact or two because it was so intense. Certain parts mentioned in the book on here about Warren caught my interest too. There was so much hinting that he’s always been the one bailing everyone out but Jackie stopped short of saying or naming things. I’m curious if it was because she didn’t want to sound petty or air everyone’s business. 

The Bastardi book was a mess. Their loss was horrific but they could’ve taken the time, some editing to write about their pain instead of venomous nonsense. I’m sorry for them. It has to hurt intensely that they’ll never get justice because any charges died with Diane. That’s very frustrating. I hope they all find peace and a way to channel that anger and pain in to something productive. In situations like this, you have to find or create your own closure. Decades ago, my Mom was in a Compassionate Friends group, this was way before the internet. The woman who hosted the meetings, her daughter was murdered by a career criminal. He died in jail. She had a lot of anger, rage because she never got any closure in the form of justice. 

Watching Danny act like it’s all an inconvenience says so much. If that’s his behavior toward a tragedy, I don’t want to know what he was like to live with. 

Jay seems kooky fun but too obsessed with Why? The part where she was overwhelmed with Danny’s mess said so much. I hope Brian is doing well now. 

BookWoman56, thank you for mentioning that! So many of the online sleuths, I wonder about their life, family dynamic and experiences because so many assume that Diane didn’t like Jackie because they weren’t besties and try to say that’s why she didn’t care about her nieces. They aren’t considering the fact that many SAHM’s group together. Diane was the bread winner, I don’t think she had time for the friends she had. Which speaking of that, I felt terrible for her friends. It was like they wanted to say things but couldn’t. They seemed hurt and more than in the just lost a friend in a confusing tragedy way. 

I think she snapped. I think something happened. Or maybe his passiveness and throwing everything at her to do and deal with finally pushed her over the edge 

And if there were affairs going on, in today’s age of info everywhere, stories for sale I’m really surprised nothing has come out and no one has come forward. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by LemonSoda

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:32 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

I'm still on the drunk/stoned out of her mind train, not the murder suicide train. If it was just Diane and her own kids, perhaps that would be logical, as to "teach Danny a lesson." But the fact that she was also transporting her three nieces, leads me to believe that it was not intentional, just careless stupidity. She had no reason to "get back" at her brother, that we know of. Just Danny.

Me too. I can't rule out murder/suicide completely, because we have no idea what was going through Diane's head. But I've seen nothing to suggest she could have deliberately murdered all those kids. 

I think she had probably driven drunk many times and gotten away with it. Something may have set her off that morning, but we'll never know for sure. She started mixing vodka with orange juice until eventually she was drinking far more vodka than juice. She panicked when she started getting sick, and smoked pot hoping it would calm her down/relieve the nausea. But the pot only intensified the effects of the alcohol, and she went into a delirium state.

I keep thinking about how different everything would be if she had just waited for Warren at the Tappan Zee bridge tollway. But that wasn't her personality at all.

[One Tough Cookie]

On 9/29/2019 at 7:28 PM, CherryMalotte said:

Sadly I think I'm convinced that it was probably suicide, and figured her children would be better off dead with her than alive with Danny.  She obviously was past any rational thinking about sparing Warren and Jackie's girls.  

I don't think she gave a rat's ass about anyone but herself at that point and didn't care whom she took out with her.  I've said it before, and God forgive me, but I want her sorry ass dug up and put on trial, the surviving son put with someone who actually cares for and wants him and I want Danny held as an accessory to murder.  sorry/not sorry.

[One Tough Cookie]

On 10/2/2019 at 2:27 PM, BookWoman56 said:

This does remind me of one of the crazier conspiracy theories that I think the Bastardi book mentioned as coming from Jay, that some employee at the McDonald’s had been busted for drugs previously, and gotten so annoyed that Diane insisted on the specific meal she did, that the employee spiked her soft drink with some random drug. Because yeah, that makes sense and completely negates the BAC numbers, except for the part where it completely doesn’t. 

Holy shit--I buy some conspiracy theories but even I would't buy this.

[Dancingjaneway]

Finally watched this & wow what a disturbing, sad, blood boiling story. I remember when it happened but didn't remember the specifics or the outcome. Dany is a piece of shit & I wish that the son didn't have to stay with him. When they first said he didn't need therapy I felt like knocking their heads together. But finding out that Jay got him into therapy made me feel so much better. It's like you saw what your wife/friend went through when her mom left you think that just because his mother died instead of abandoning him he's going to be o.k.?? 

I'm am firmly in the murder/suicide camp. If she was truly having a stroke or didn't realize how much alcohol she had ingested she would have pulled over. Especailly knowing that she had kids in the car(esp. her own kids). I think she at one point got hooked on pain pills. Why keep visiting the dentist "in pain" & then walk out in the middle of the visit? I think the doc didn't want to prescribe her anymore painkillers so she walked out of the office. So now that she can't get the pills she starts to drink to numb the pain/stress. She drinks here & there. Some beer a little bit of wine nothing too aggressive to keep up appearances. 

Seeing the interview with Danny's mom cemented my theory that he was a useless POS & that she was having to carry the burden. Because she set the bar so high she had to keep it there or they would have been like "what's wrong?" "why am I not getting another book of the kids photos". Nobody ever helped. She was stuck. She wanted to be the mother her mom wasn't. Of course she idolized her dad because he stuck around. Even if he was an abusive jerk she would still feel like he cared. I feel like she really could have used therapy.

When the one friend said that she never talked about her marriage that was a HUGE red flag. What girlfriends don't talk about their marriages with each other? That's usually who you go to after a fight or if you are having difficulties. The fact that her childhood friends got cut out of the picture I think says a lot about Danny & her. I think Danny didn't like her having friends but I also think this was her way of trying to leave the past behind. She kept shit bottled up. Compartmentalized like crazy. Made sure she was in control. 

Danny & Jay's lawyer was trash & so was the dude who helped get the secondary results. Also why do people continue to pay the whole amount before the job is done. Get a contract together & get it in writing that only a certain amount is paid at certain times if the job is done correctly. It's like hiring a contractor. At the end of the day though I don't think anything would have changed their minds about what went down. They wasted that money. Money that could have gone to helping the son. 

In regards to the nieces I think they were part of the plan. I think this is where I'm gonna lose some people but this was my theory as to why that day. So we all know that Diane took care of the house, her brothers, father after her mom died. I think she did it all on her own. She was the "woman" of the house now. So for years she had to wait on her brothers & she built up a resentment towards them. So this one weekend she get's her brothers girls & the father isn't able to join them. Perfect chance for her to put her plan into motion. Obviously she wouldn't want her children to be raised by Danny or to abandon them like her mother so they are along for the ride. Then she has her brothers kids & the resentment had come to a breaking point. I feel like the brother rubs it in that he has to help her with shit & that Jackie doesn't 100% trust her. Diane decides that she wants to hurt her brother. This is her ultimate revenge on him. Jackie is just an afterthought/collateral damage. I also don't think her and Jackie were as close as everyone says. I don't believe anything the family says. 

I think she started drinking before they left. She also had  pot before they left maybe some gummies or such. Then when they went to McDonalds she had a little more vodka while the kids played. At this point she was feeling good but not unable to walk. She goes to the gas station(which why does she pull up to the pump & not the parking spots near the store esp if she is in pain or having a tough time seeing?) Goes in to the gas station maybe tries to score from the clerk? Also if she was really in pain they sell tylenol & advil. Why did she walk out with nothing? Those are better than nothing for pain. She then leaves. Meanwhile she is drinking the vodka from her cup(I think she got a big cup of something & put the vodka in it so the kids wouldn't see the bottle). She continues to drink & drink. Gaining courage the longer she goes. She then stops to vomit talks with her brother & that doesn't help matters it just makes shit worse. She feels like he will hold this over her head. Now she has been drinking straight vodka for awhile now & is not doing well. She is on a mission though. In the end she completes her mission. Knowing that eventually with the speed & direction she's going she will for sure kill herself & the kids. 

Sadly, I think this could have been prevented. I think her keeping all this bottled up it led to her having a breakdown. She tried to fix what she couldn't. She kept everyone else together but left herself out of the picture. She was def. a control freak. I think she saw flashes of her mother in herself & that also scared her. I think she had days where she thought about fleeing, about leaving Danny. I'm sorry but I don't believe in the whole "it was love at first sight" & "he was the only guy she dated" BS. She never got to fully live her life & it showed. Danny was convenient. He wasn't super attractive, he had no issues with her weight & she played the part of mommy so Danny went along with it. Danny is one of those men who ruin women. He was spoiled by his mother & then instead of expecting a wife he was expecting a 2nd mom. I don't believe they ever talked about having kids before marriage. I think when the subject came up she sadly didn't decide to leave him because she felt insecure about her looks. He finally gave in but said as long as he didn't have to do anything & as long as she kept babying him. It was like a "gift" he was giving her. 

I really don't have much to say about the other family involved in the accident. I can understand the anger. I would be too if someone chose to take their lives & involved my family. I have no issue with suicide or someone ending their life if they are in pain. But, when it involves innocent people, that's where you lose me. So while her life sucked from point A to point B it doesn't excuse the fact that she hurt others. She took other peoples lives. They didn't get a choice that day to be involved. That's selfish. That's evil. When I attempted suicide I did it with my medication. I would have NEVER put anyone else in harms way. This was the part of her that was like her mom. The part that put herself first like her mom did. It's quite ironic. 

 

[Dancingjaneway]

I just read a report by someone who studied this case in their forensic class. It was reported that the kids were found with no car seats & no seatbelts. This just further cements the suicide/murder theory. 

[MissT]

9 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

Finally watched this & wow what a disturbing, sad, blood boiling story. I remember when it happened but didn't remember the specifics or the outcome. Dany is a piece of shit & I wish that the son didn't have to stay with him. When they first said he didn't need therapy I felt like knocking their heads together. But finding out that Jay got him into therapy made me feel so much better. It's like you saw what your wife/friend went through when her mom left you think that just because his mother died instead of abandoning him he's going to be o.k.?? 

I'm am firmly in the murder/suicide camp. If she was truly having a stroke or didn't realize how much alcohol she had ingested she would have pulled over. Especailly knowing that she had kids in the car(esp. her own kids). I think she at one point got hooked on pain pills. Why keep visiting the dentist "in pain" & then walk out in the middle of the visit? I think the doc didn't want to prescribe her anymore painkillers so she walked out of the office. So now that she can't get the pills she starts to drink to numb the pain/stress. She drinks here & there. Some beer a little bit of wine nothing too aggressive to keep up appearances. 

Seeing the interview with Danny's mom cemented my theory that he was a useless POS & that she was having to carry the burden. Because she set the bar so high she had to keep it there or they would have been like "what's wrong?" "why am I not getting another book of the kids photos". Nobody ever helped. She was stuck. She wanted to be the mother her mom wasn't. Of course she idolized her dad because he stuck around. Even if he was an abusive jerk she would still feel like he cared. I feel like she really could have used therapy.

When the one friend said that she never talked about her marriage that was a HUGE red flag. What girlfriends don't talk about their marriages with each other? That's usually who you go to after a fight or if you are having difficulties. The fact that her childhood friends got cut out of the picture I think says a lot about Danny & her. I think Danny didn't like her having friends but I also think this was her way of trying to leave the past behind. She kept shit bottled up. Compartmentalized like crazy. Made sure she was in control. 

Danny & Jay's lawyer was trash & so was the dude who helped get the secondary results. Also why do people continue to pay the whole amount before the job is done. Get a contract together & get it in writing that only a certain amount is paid at certain times if the job is done correctly. It's like hiring a contractor. At the end of the day though I don't think anything would have changed their minds about what went down. They wasted that money. Money that could have gone to helping the son. 

In regards to the nieces I think they were part of the plan. I think this is where I'm gonna lose some people but this was my theory as to why that day. So we all know that Diane took care of the house, her brothers, father after her mom died. I think she did it all on her own. She was the "woman" of the house now. So for years she had to wait on her brothers & she built up a resentment towards them. So this one weekend she get's her brothers girls & the father isn't able to join them. Perfect chance for her to put her plan into motion. Obviously she wouldn't want her children to be raised by Danny or to abandon them like her mother so they are along for the ride. Then she has her brothers kids & the resentment had come to a breaking point. I feel like the brother rubs it in that he has to help her with shit & that Jackie doesn't 100% trust her. Diane decides that she wants to hurt her brother. This is her ultimate revenge on him. Jackie is just an afterthought/collateral damage. I also don't think her and Jackie were as close as everyone says. I don't believe anything the family says. 

I think she started drinking before they left. She also had  pot before they left maybe some gummies or such. Then when they went to McDonalds she had a little more vodka while the kids played. At this point she was feeling good but not unable to walk. She goes to the gas station(which why does she pull up to the pump & not the parking spots near the store esp if she is in pain or having a tough time seeing?) Goes in to the gas station maybe tries to score from the clerk? Also if she was really in pain they sell tylenol & advil. Why did she walk out with nothing? Those are better than nothing for pain. She then leaves. Meanwhile she is drinking the vodka from her cup(I think she got a big cup of something & put the vodka in it so the kids wouldn't see the bottle). She continues to drink & drink. Gaining courage the longer she goes. She then stops to vomit talks with her brother & that doesn't help matters it just makes shit worse. She feels like he will hold this over her head. Now she has been drinking straight vodka for awhile now & is not doing well. She is on a mission though. In the end she completes her mission. Knowing that eventually with the speed & direction she's going she will for sure kill herself & the kids. 

Sadly, I think this could have been prevented. I think her keeping all this bottled up it led to her having a breakdown. She tried to fix what she couldn't. She kept everyone else together but left herself out of the picture. She was def. a control freak. I think she saw flashes of her mother in herself & that also scared her. I think she had days where she thought about fleeing, about leaving Danny. I'm sorry but I don't believe in the whole "it was love at first sight" & "he was the only guy she dated" BS. She never got to fully live her life & it showed. Danny was convenient. He wasn't super attractive, he had no issues with her weight & she played the part of mommy so Danny went along with it. Danny is one of those men who ruin women. He was spoiled by his mother & then instead of expecting a wife he was expecting a 2nd mom. I don't believe they ever talked about having kids before marriage. I think when the subject came up she sadly didn't decide to leave him because she felt insecure about her looks. He finally gave in but said as long as he didn't have to do anything & as long as she kept babying him. It was like a "gift" he was giving her. 

I really don't have much to say about the other family involved in the accident. I can understand the anger. I would be too if someone chose to take their lives & involved my family. I have no issue with suicide or someone ending their life if they are in pain. But, when it involves innocent people, that's where you lose me. So while her life sucked from point A to point B it doesn't excuse the fact that she hurt others. She took other peoples lives. They didn't get a choice that day to be involved. That's selfish. That's evil. When I attempted suicide I did it with my medication. I would have NEVER put anyone else in harms way. This was the part of her that was like her mom. The part that put herself first like her mom did. It's quite ironic. 

 

Wow -- Bravo!!!  I'm with you all the way.   I remember when this happened and I watched the documentary 2-3 times over the years.  I still wonder, all these years later, how her son is. 

[One Tough Cookie]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:54 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I think the doc didn't want to prescribe her anymore painkillers so she walked out of the office

Any dentist I'v been to will only prescribe 3-4 pain killers, even for a root canal--so Danny,come up with another rationalization for your wife's murderous action.

[heatherchandler]

On 10/3/2021 at 6:57 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Any dentist I'v been to will only prescribe 3-4 pain killers, even for a root canal--so Danny,come up with another rationalization for your wife's murderous action.

Some dentists give wayyy more.  And this was back when painkillers were the go-to.  Not that it is a rationalization, just saying I have been prescribed a ton of painkillers by dentists.

I agree that the dentist probably cut her off, though.  

On 8/31/2021 at 3:16 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I just read a report by someone who studied this case in their forensic class. It was reported that the kids were found with no car seats & no seatbelts. This just further cements the suicide/murder theory. 

Where did you read this?

I am curious if they thought anything of the "wrong number?"  I always felt that was what set everything in motion...

Edited October 5, 2021 by heatherchandler

[hookedontv]

I happened upon this news story from a couple years ago. No mention about the surviving son, but maybe someone will find interesting. Apologies if it's been posted, I haven't read the entire forum. 

https://westchester.news12.com/taconic-tragedy-10-years-later-40836615

 

[Enero]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:54 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I'm am firmly in the murder/suicide camp. If she was truly having a stroke or didn't realize how much alcohol she had ingested she would have pulled over.

Indeed. Btw, great post. Some have stopped short of excusing her actions by speculating that she was blackout drunk, and therefore had no idea what she was doing. It doesn’t matter that she was possibly blackout drunk, the fact remains that she drank to the point of being completely wasted (and ingested/smoked weed) while driving with her CHILDREN and NIECES in the vehicle. Her choice to drive while drunk out of her mind and high as a kite was nothing short of despicable. Her choice was purposeful.

 

On 8/31/2021 at 3:54 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

think when the subject came up she sadly didn't decide to leave him because she felt insecure about her looks.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the subject of children was ever truly discussed. Or if it was Danny probably made it clear he didn’t want kids but Diane got pregnant anyway for her own reasons. Perhaps to prove that she was everything her mother wasn’t. Or because she always wanted the house, the husband, the white picket fence and the 2.5 kids. Perhaps having kids in her mind made her life perfect and complete. She knew she’d be on her own raising the kids because Danny wanted no part of parenting.

[funky-rat]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:57 PM, Enero said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the subject of children was ever truly discussed. Or if it was Danny probably made it clear he didn’t want kids but Diane got pregnant anyway for her own reasons. Perhaps to prove that she was everything her mother wasn’t. Or because she always wanted the house, the husband, the white picket fence and the 2.5 kids. Perhaps having kids in her mind made her life perfect and complete. She knew she’d be on her own raising the kids because Danny wanted no part of parenting.

IIRC, the documentary said that she wanted kids but Danny didn't, and his mom bragged about how she pampered him incredibly while he was growing up, and he would be Diane's kid, or some similar cringey thing.  And that eventually, Danny relented, but told her the kids were her responsibility and not to expect him to help out (or something similar).

[pasdetrois]

The strongest impression I had after viewing this documentary years ago was that Diane was suicidal and her husband was oddly talkative and media-seeking extremely soon after the deaths. I thought he was covering up something, or trying to spin the narrative to avoid liability.

[configdotsys]

I was pretty obsessed with this case and read every last drop I could about it when it happened and again when the documentary came out. I live in the NY metro so it was all over.

Did not buy the dental pain theory because those calendar entries for Ambien and whatever were from a few years earlier. Jay looked like she perked up when she saw them in the calendar thinking they could push it off on that. Still not buying it. If you got a spontaneous, devastatingly painful toothache while driving, of all thing choices you have to make there, killing yourself and a car full of kids is just not something that would immediately come to mind.

She was very strange. At one point, she went out to buy groceries and came home with a car. Her friend even-- gently-- said, "If she didn't like you, she could be difficult." She also said Diane was a backseat driver and would be all over giving directions even if you did not need them. I think she was a maniacal person all around.  

Weirdness about this case:

You are sitting in your home and get a phone call from one of your kids. They are at least one hour and thirty minutes away from where you are and in a car that is moving. They are crying and frightened and say something is up. They read you a sign at their current location.

What do you do?

1- Call 911, give the color, make, model and plate of the car and explain what your kid told you on the phone

2 - Tell the ill driver to wait there, on the highway, leave your house, go pick up someone else, then drive over 90 minutes to the location that your kid called from however many minutes ago and when you get up there-- well over an hour later-- and can't find them you head to a police station 

I just cannot fathom why option 2 above is something anyone would choose in that situation. I, too, think there is much more to the story. 

There were lots of folks looking into this on forums way back and someone did an excellent write up that I wish I could find again. One thing the person noted was that Diane got onto the parkway going in the right direction, got off, turned around and got back on the wrong way using the exit she just used to get off. That sounds premeditated to me even though I can't imagine someone doing that. If she was a psychotic person who found out that her husband was having an affair and snapped, you could almost see someone who is not right in the head killing their own kids and themself as a sort of "Fuck you" to the spouse they left behind, but your nieces? Just so unbelievable.  

Physically opening the window of your vehicle-- it was late July in NY and scorching hot-- and putting the only means of communication you have on a guardrail and taking off-- after your family has said they are coming to help you is not something a person who wants help would do. 

The video at the mini mart does not show her asking for anything so the Tylenol thing was never proven so I don't buy that either. Initially, the clerk in that store refused to speak to the police, which was bizarre. The Tylenol story was pushed by a PI with questionable credentials that was hired by the family. I find it hard to believe that a place like that would be sold out those little paper packets of pain reliever, and even if they were, a person in pain would take whatever they had. She didn't have time to ask for anything. Her mouth did not move in that video. Maybe she walked in there to buy more booze, and when she got in there saw that clock that it was not noon yet (it was a Sunday) and they were unable to sell it yet so she walked out. That could account for the walk in, look briefly, turn and walk out.

The video of her leaving the mini mart/gas station was straight up frightening. She flew out of there and made a left turn without even slowing down or looking at the oncoming traffic in the right lane. 

There was a call made from her phone that lasted nearly 9 minutes while she was in the car. It was dismissed as a wrong number. Pretty lengthy for a wrong number. There was also talk of Diane having an affair and that maybe she was talking to that person and whatever was said prompted her to do this awful thing.

I could go on forever about this but everything she did that day to me seems purposeful. I hope Bryan is doing well. 

[configdotsys]

I found the document with the interesting take on the case:

http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/news/mother-three-girls-killed-taconic-crash-pregnant-again-page4-155747.html

Edited February 19, 2022 by configdotsys

[heatherchandler]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:27 PM, configdotsys said:

 

There was a call made from her phone that lasted nearly 9 minutes while she was in the car. It was dismissed as a wrong number. Pretty lengthy for a wrong number. There was also talk of Diane having an affair and that maybe she was talking to that person and whatever was said prompted her to do this awful thing.

 

Thank you!  I have been bringing up the "wrong number" for years.  It is so obvious what happened when you realize it was not a wrong number.  And the number was listed to a home near her work.  I believe she was having an affair, and during that 9 minute call he broke it off, she kills herself and takes them all with her.  

[Cinnabon]

10 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Thank you!  I have been bringing up the "wrong number" for years.  It is so obvious what happened when you realize it was not a wrong number.  And the number was listed to a home near her work.  I believe she was having an affair, and during that 9 minute call he broke it off, she kills herself and takes them all with her.  

Did they ever determine exactly whose number she called? I believe that technology has been available for at least a few years now. Maybe they should go back and find out.

[heatherchandler]

25 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Did they ever determine exactly whose number she called? I believe that technology has been available for at least a few years now. Maybe they should go back and find out.

They did!  They interviewed the guy and he was like, "hmm that's weird."

I bet they were having an affair and he really really needed to keep that secret.

I have read different things about the length of time of the call, some reports say 17 seconds.  Even if it was, I maintain 17 seconds is long enough to say, "I told you not to call me here, what are you thinking? We are done, that's it." Click.

 

[Tdoc72]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:27 PM, configdotsys said:

 

Weirdness about this case:

You are sitting in your home and get a phone call from one of your kids. They are at least one hour and thirty minutes away from where you are and in a car that is moving. They are crying and frightened and say something is up. They read you a sign at their current location.

What do you do?

1- Call 911, give the color, make, model and plate of the car and explain what your kid told you on the phone

2 - Tell the ill driver to wait there, on the highway, leave your house, go pick up someone else, then drive over 90 minutes to the location that your kid called from however many minutes ago and when you get up there-- well over an hour later-- and can't find them you head to a police station 

I just cannot fathom why option 2 above is something anyone would choose in that situation. I, too, think there is much more to the story. 

They actually did both. Warren left to try and find her where he asked her to stay while Jackie (and friends I think) contacted various authorities. I find their actions smart and reasonable and not weird at all. 

On 8/31/2021 at 4:16 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I just read a report by someone who studied this case in their forensic class. It was reported that the kids were found with no car seats & no seatbelts. This just further cements the suicide/murder theory. 

I know they had car seats, as that was the reason Diane borrowed the Hance’s minivan.  According to the official report (http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/policereport/schuler, diane_police_report.pdf) at #33 the witness, who removed the kids from the car trying to save them, said all 5 were seatbelted. #34 witness also mentions them being seatbelted. #40 witness says at least 2 were in car seats. 
~~~

Curious where the upset/mean customer at McDonalds story came from. In the report linked above, the cashier said she was pleasant (pg 13, #65).

Edited February 24, 2022 by Tdoc72