S05.E08: Mom vs. Mom

[radishcake]

Hey guys please make sure to respect each other not direct personal opinions at other posters.

[GreatKazu]

 The amount of attention put on her weight in these forums is a little disturbing, frankly.  It's not like she's a couple of episodes away from "My 600 pound life."  As someone mentioned above, she's got a small frame so ANY amount of extra weight is going to be noticeable.  She's probably no more than 30 pounds overweight. 

The only reason her weight is a topic here is because Tyler is making it an issue on the show.

 

I have not mentioned anything about Catelyn's weight (yet), but just pointing out the subject is being brought up on the show and it is not far-fetched that it will be mentioned here. If anyone is pointing out her weight, it is her beloved Tyler, and frankly, he needs to stop. He is not helping.

[msblossom]

FWIW I guess I read this comment totally differently than others have. I thought you meant because of her smacking her lips or chomping with her mouth open or something like that. I haven't noticed her doing this, but she may. I know that's something that completely grosses my husband out that I don't even notice at all if someone at the table is doing it. I didn't even take it as a weight related comment.

Exactly. I was specifically referring to when they were sitting at the table eating pizza/burgers and Cate was lifting a tomato(?) and dropping it in her mouth. I also get a little grossed out when she knaws on her nails. Has nothing to do with her weight.

[GreatKazu]

Exactly. I was specifically referring to when they were sitting at the table eating pizza/burgers and Cate was lifting a tomato(?) and dropping it in her mouth. I also get a little grossed out when she knaws on her nails. Has nothing to do with her weight.

 

I knew exactly what you meant when you pointed out how she eats. Yes, it is gross. I agree about that nail chomping thing she does, too. Regardless if it is anxiety or some kind of nervous habit, it doesn't negate the fact it looks awful. No wonder my sibling used to tell me how gross I looked when I did that when I was a kid. She was right.

[msblossom]

No, you only said you're disgusted at the way she eats and that you "don't think it's okay" and that Cate clearly doesn't care about her weight and that she's setting a bad example for her daughter. I can see how you were defending her.  Having a baby is crazy stressful, in the early days you're totally in survival mode.  I couldn't imagine travelling out of state with my newborn and doing press tours when she was that little.  The LAST thing on my mind would've been dieting.  And that's okay.  The amount of attention put on her weight in these forums is a little disturbing, frankly.  It's not like she's a couple of episodes away from "My 600 pound life."  As someone mentioned above, she's got a small frame so ANY amount of extra weight is going to be noticeable.  She's probably no more than 30 pounds overweight.

I'm not going to go through your entire post and explain myself to you. I think it's pretty clear that my intent was not to bash Cate's weight; I maintain that it's not right to be unhealthy for herself or her daughter, and Tyler is nothing more than a passive aggressive prick that brings up her weight and dieting bc he wants to control her.

[msblossom]

I knew exactly what you meant when you pointed out how she eats. Yes, it is gross. I agree about that nail chomping thing she does, too. Regardless if it is anxiety or some kind of nervous habit, it doesn't negate the fact it looks awful. No wonder my sibling used to tell me how gross I looked when I did that when I was a kid. She was right.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I agree that it's probably anxiety.

Edited to fix quote bracket.

Edited May 15, 2015 by msblossom

[zenme]

The teen pregnancy rate is down due to safe sex education. I will admit that teen mom is a good lesson to my own teens. Even if you love him or her at 16, that doesn't mean he or she is father or mother material. When you create a child with someone you're with them for life. Imagine having a child with someone like Ryan or Jenelle. Even if you hate them you're with them forever. My teens learn a valuable lesson on what not to do. My daughter always makes comments about Chelsea and how she always has to deal with him. Or how Aubrey has a shitty dad.

 

I agree, and I've watched the show with my teens since these girls were on 16& P.  My kids and I would watch together and they were always taken aback by the lifestyles these kids had both before and after the baby.  They had these crazy and cheating boyfriends, or they were broke and struggling--or both.  This is why I think it's a disservice to show these teen moms with houses and cars, boob jobs, etc.  It's unrealistic.  Just give 'em a 16 & P and one Teen Mom season apiece. 

[missy jo]

"Do you know what you're going to wear? Because there are going to be pictures."

 

The opening scene combined two of Tyler's favorite things: The media and obsessing over Catelynn's appearance.

 

And of course he knows that Farrah's porn tape comes up high in the Google search for "Teen Mom."

[NikSac]

And of course he knows that Farrah's porn tape comes up high in the Google search for "Teen Mom."

 

This part made me laugh. I know search engine marketing, search engine optimization, social media, etc. are all large and legitimate fields these days - fields I'm interested in fact - but come on, this is ridiculous. "If you search 'Teen Mom' the first thing you see is Farrah's back door!" (I'm snarking/paraphrasing) is all I could hear when Tyler was on his high horse about the whole thing. What I really don't get is how it's suddenly a big scandal when 5 minutes earlier he was laughing with Catelynn about "oh I knew it!" about Farrah being back and "we have no beef with her."  Really Tyler? I root for most of these girls even if I don't always agree with their choices, but I seriously want him to get knocked down hard. Which is sad because I know he had a rough upbringing and I want to root for him. I just can't.

[GreatKazu]

 

This is why I think it's a disservice to show these teen moms with houses and cars, boob jobs, etc.  It's unrealistic.  Just give 'em a 16 & P and one Teen Mom season apiece.

It is a disservice. Watching these young girls get paid six figures totally goes against "struggling young mothers".  I have no young children (they are all adults), but they know the show and unlike me, they choose not to watch this show because it gives a false presentation of what it is like for young mothers who may end up single and raising a child most of the time. They had some friends who made the mistake of becoming young mothers. They remember what their friends went through with having to deal with going to school and sometimes working part-time. Shit, I remember one girl in particular when I was growing up, she lived on my street. She became a mother at such a very, very young age. She was on WIC, she continued with school then moved on to high school while working part-time, sharing her mother's car, it was a true struggle.

 

 

"we have no beef with her."

He should have ended that sentence with, "anymore".

[missy jo]

Has Teen Mom ever given an official reason for not filming Farrah for this season initially?

 

 

I have no idea what the real story is, but I thought it was interesting that when they ask Farrah why she thinks she initially wasn't asked back - even after showing her the video clip of Maci - she says, "Maybe because MTV thinks I'm a porn star?"

 

"If you search 'Teen Mom' the first thing you see is Farrah's back door!" (I'm snarking/paraphrasing) is all I could hear when Tyler was on his high horse about the whole thing.

 

 

Then he says, "What's the price for selling your dignity?" I don't know, Tyler, how much do you get paid for Teen Mom?

[Christina]

My opinion has long been that Farrah wasn't originally asked back because she is a terror to work with, and her first episode is proof. There was that clip of Maci saying that the girls didn't have any say in it, which was after all the tabloid articles said the girls were refusing to sign on if Farrah did. I think MTV released the info, blaming it on the other three, who can't say anything about it because of their contracts. None of them seem to speak poorly of MTV or production, except that comment Farrah made about male cameramen filming her and Sophia in various stages of dress.

 

When Maci was being told Farrah was returning, she made a comment about being told Farrah wasn't going to be filmed, but it wasn't said (to me) like she insisted on it. MTV knew all three moms (and Tyler) would sign up; the only question was probably how much they would want paid. They also knew that when they told Maci she would threaten to leave. I don't doubt that she made it clear that she was happy Farrah wasn't going to be on since she portrays herself as a good girl who wouldn't associate with such swine, but seriously doubt she had any sway over the production as it pertains to Farrah in the original contract negotiations.

 

The production staff probably looked at Farrah's Being ratings and reviews, the other casts' Being ratings and reviews, and what they had so far to try to piece into a series and decided to bring Farrah back. Then they acknowledged that Maci would threaten to leave and had a good laugh over their pizza and wine because they knew she wouldn't. Her Being episode was supposed to be a lead in for a series for her only, but no one wanted to watch it.

 

I know too much about these girls and their tabloid info because I have followed since 16 and Pregnant and I never know the other people listed on the sites, except for Sister Wives. So when I'm bored, I read the tabloid sites and click on names I recognize, fill my brain with useless info, and then come here where other people understand. :)

[DollyMamaB]

When Farrah and Catelynn were doing their interviews together, the DRASTIC contrast between Farrah's blinding white veneers and Catelynn's yellow cigarette teeth was startling.

LOL - Farrah can't even argue because she's so stupid. I don't blame Maci for walking out, you can't have a discussion with someone that ignorant.  Wait until Sophia is about 10, let's see how the whole porn thing effects her then and Farrah's even dumber than I thought if she thinks that it won't. 

 

Having said that, I wish someone WOULD give Maci a verbal smackdown,

Edited May 15, 2015 by DollyMamaB

[NikSac]

LOL - Farrah can't even argue because she's so stupid.

 

She sure has that "say a WORD and I will kill you" look down, though. Gotta give her that...

[EuropeanGirl]

I signed up only to comment on the past episode. I think Macy is only looking for a reason not to talk/explain herself to Farrah. We have seen that during the entire episode, she is narrating about how scared she is about talking to Farrah or her reacting to Maci pulling out. To me, she would be a fair and honest person if she pulled Farrah to the side and told her that she did it. Yes, Farrah would still might make a big deal, but Maci would be a respectufl person and most of all, that would be the best way to avoid drama and sneaking behind Farrah's back (since the producer was the one who was suppose to tell Farrah). Maci would gain an incredible amount respect from me doing that, instead, she just used the whole situation and made it look like Farrah can't listen etc. She was trying to make it seem like she tried to talk to her, but she gave up so quickly multiple times, that it is obvious that it was never her intention to work out that issue with Farrah in the first place.

 

I am not taking anyone's side here, just stating how Maci could have been not more honest, but honest in general, since she's always about that. How can person not be hurt by the fact that the other person is all smiles whe she sees you, but the next day you find out things are the opposite?

Also, if Maci was so appaled by Farrah coming back, she would have pulled out completely from the show, not caring about anything, money included. By staying on the show without Bentely, she is not giving an example that she think she is. It is just more obvious now that it's about the money.

I admire Amber's maturity when it comes to the situation, since she realized that she is not the one to judge. I was pleasantly surprised, I must admit!

As for Catelynn, I cannot let go of the feeling that both she and Tyler are mourning about giving up Carly. I really hope they will move on sometime in their life (as in accept that it was done and that their life can't revolve around her).

[Darknight]

I agree, and I've watched the show with my teens since these girls were on 16& P. My kids and I would watch together and they were always taken aback by the lifestyles these kids had both before and after the baby. They had these crazy and cheating boyfriends, or they were broke and struggling--or both. This is why I think it's a disservice to show these teen moms with houses and cars, boob jobs, etc. It's unrealistic. Just give 'em a 16 & P and one Teen Mom season apiece.

Which is why mtv should not pay them. Let them struggle. Put that money in a trust fund for the kids. I know teen parents. It's hard. Let these moms work to jobs while going to school and struggling to make ends meet. Let them try to save up for a new car or deciding between rent money or a new handbag they want. Watching teen mom makes teen pregnancy look glamorous.

[DollyMamaB]

She sure has that "say a WORD and I will kill you" look down, though. Gotta give her that...

Having grown up with 4 very strong sisters, her look is nothing.  She's just one of those people who thinks if she talks louder and doesn't let anyone else say anything, then she wins the argument.  What she's too stupid to realize is that, the longer she talks, the dumber she sounds.  I mean, when Amber is the one making sense (even if it was for a hot second), you know you're an idiot. 

[Tatum]

 

I don't doubt that she made it clear that she was happy Farrah wasn't going to be on since she portrays herself as a good girl who wouldn't associate with such swine, but seriously doubt she had any sway over the production as it pertains to Farrah in the original contract negotiations.

 

I think that too. I know there have been reports that Maci, Cate, and Amber banded together and refused to do another season with Farrah, and I think Maci and Cate (not so much Amber) have clearly indicated while being filmed that they don't want Farrah on the show, but I just can't imagine these three strutting into the offices of 11th Street Productions, or MTV, or whatever, like they're the friggin cast of The Big Bang Theory (that all have lawyers and agents and resumes and know their worth), and approaching the higher ups with their demands.

 

I think the choice to exclude Farrah was decided at a much higher level, and then they asked the other girls how they felt about it, and the other girls quickly agreed that the show would be better without Farrah.

 

If that is how it went down, then I just can't see how this network can release a statement about Farrah not sending the right message with her porn career while keeping a straight face as they continue to film Jenelle on TM2. That's just maddening. And they certainly did- I believe they were negotiating terms with all the TM2 girls while filming TM OG. It wasn't like they decided at the same time that they weren't the Moral Police and that both Jenelle and Farrah could be included.

 

 

I agree, and I've watched the show with my teens since these girls were on 16& P. My kids and I would watch together and they were always taken aback by the lifestyles these kids had both before and after the baby. They had these crazy and cheating boyfriends, or they were broke and struggling--or both. This is why I think it's a disservice to show these teen moms with houses and cars, boob jobs, etc. It's unrealistic. Just give 'em a 16 & P and one Teen Mom season apiece.

 

I think 16 and Pregnant does an excellent job of showing the reality of teen pregnancy. The dad almost always checks out, the mom is overwhelmed, alienated from her old life, and struggles to keep up with school, pay for diapers, or even just stay awake.

 

Even on the "happy ending" 16 and pregnants where the dad does stick around and seems to honestly embrace fatherhood and respects his girlfriend, the teen mom is usually just so beat down by the credits as she's realizing that even though she's fortunate (in comparison to other teen moms) that she has the support of her baby's father, this probably isn't the guy she wants to end up with forever, but she can't seem ungrateful because then he might leave and she'd be screwed. On top of that, she's still exhausted from work and school and frequently depressed about all the high school social events that she's excluded from now.

 

And then when they do the update specials on the girls who weren't chosen for Teen Mom, the majority of them are working minimum wage jobs, have had another child or are currently pregnant, and school is something that is pushed way down on the priority list.

 

Of course, then along comes Teen Mom, with their 6 figure checks and d list fame and other perks, and you have 23 year old women that are permanently stunted at an emotional age of 16.

[gunderda]

Are we surprised that Amber thinks drinking is ok?  The girl doesn't even attend meetings.  To her, her problem was not alcohol, it was drugs.  She doesn't seem them as one and the same.

[KYBlonde]

While I am not a Maci lover, I have never seen Maci act the way Farrah has.  I have never ever seen Maci call her dad by his name and just be out and out nasty not only to her family, but anyone else who ever crossed her path.  Farrah has always been a vile sociopath and the sex crap just added to the shit storm.  I had a real problem with Farrah WAY before she cashed in on the Teen Mom thing with the sex stuff.  It just added to it for me and showcased how mentally messed up Farrah is.  Farrah can't get and keep a man because she is a black hole of neediness that most guys run from.  I still say that if Farrah was in any way normal?  She would have more than one child by more than one "baby daddy".  This latest guy will get the hell out of dodge just like the rest when he realizes the fame whoring isn't worth it.

Edited May 15, 2015 by KYBlonde

[CaughtOnTape]

Farrah is creepy as hell to watch.  It's like seeing a serial killer before the make the decision on that first victim.  She was all clingy and happy with Simon until she felt slighted by him in the car after he made the nagging comment and BAM....no feeling, moved away from him, shot him a death glare.  It was scary to watch her emotions change so quickly.  

I also don't like her entitlement in the idea that she's owed an explanation from Maci for why Maci had such a reaction to her being back on the show.  If I had been Maci I'd have told her to take a fucking seat before she talks to me like that.  She might be able to get away with it with her mother but she better never come at me like that.  The girl needs validation for everything she does and it's exhausting.  So what if Maci didn't wanna be on the show after she was asked back?  If her life is so perfect, wonderful and above everyone else's then why should she care what Maci, Amber or Catelynn have to say?

It's clear that no one has ever challenged Farrah or told her to back off because she gets away with doing some seriously shady crap.  I mean, all the producers and people involved with MTV act like abuse victims when she starts pulling her attitude.  Know what?  She wants to walk off the show because a producer asks a question she doesn't like?  LET HER!  

 

I really hate her and hope she doesn't raise her daughter to be so cold hearted and rude.

[ghoulina]

If her life is so perfect, wonderful and above everyone else's then why should she care what Maci, Amber or Catelynn have to say?

 

That's the thing, she went from acting like she had abolished all the "negative" from her life and was happy, not caring what other people thought. But, to me, the way she went after Maci just validated what Amber said - she does very much care. 

[GreatKazu]

Having grown up with 4 very strong sisters, her look is nothing.  She's just one of those people who thinks if she talks louder and doesn't let anyone else say anything, then she wins the argument.  What she's too stupid to realize is that, the longer she talks, the dumber she sounds.  I mean, when Amber is the one making sense (even if it was for a hot second), you know you're an idiot. 

It doesn't matter that Farrah's look means nothing to us, but it must be something to Maci, because she is the one who was going around saying how worried and apprehensive she was, wondering what was going to go down between her and Farrah. Maci's face showed some fear at being around Farrah. Maci was scared shitless.

 

As for Amber making sense, yes, she made sense, but I am sticking with what someone else here posted about Amber being an abuser. She is used to abusing certain people that she knows she can get away with abusing. Just like the school yard bully. The bully knows who they can bully while leaving alone the kids they know they can't go up against. Amber is that school yard bully.  She isn't going to go up against Farrah. You could easily tell Amber was pissed beyond belief at the book cover comment Farrah made. Amber looked like she wanted to just turn around and go upside her head and tell that bitch off, but she knows 1) it will land her in prison again for violating her probation, and 2) Amber is not going to bully Farrah around the way she does to Gary and other people because she, like Maci, doesn't want to go up against Farrah who doesn't give a shit at how she looks to others or cares what she says. She will throw shit in people's faces and that is something Amber and Cate know too well. Amber already had a twitter war going on with Amber, but those are just words from a computer. Going toe to toe with Farrah in person is another story.

 

 

I think Macy is only looking for a reason not to talk/explain herself to Farrah. We have seen that during the entire episode, she is narrating about how scared she is about talking to Farrah or her reacting to Maci pulling out. To me, she would be a fair and honest person if she pulled Farrah to the side and told her that she did it. Yes, Farrah would still might make a big deal, but Maci would be a respectufl person and most of all, that would be the best way to avoid drama and sneaking behind Farrah's back

Thank you! Exactly.

 

Maci kept mentioning being scared and worried. To walk away and not discuss the matter at hand, using her pregnancy as an excuse, gave Maci what she needed - a reason to not have to come face to face with Farrah and be honest about what she had done. Maci has had many confrontations with Ryan. She knows how to deal with someone who doesn't have the best communication skills. Maci stood her ground with Ryan and stood there talking away, making her points left and right. But with Farrah? She ran for the hills.

Edited May 15, 2015 by GreatKazu

[NikSac]

I think 16 and Pregnant does an excellent job of showing the reality of teen pregnancy. The dad almost always checks out, the mom is overwhelmed, alienated from her old life, and struggles to keep up with school, pay for diapers, or even just stay awake.

 

Even on the "happy ending" 16 and pregnants where the dad does stick around and seems to honestly embrace fatherhood and respects his girlfriend, the teen mom is usually just so beat down by the credits as she's realizing that even though she's fortunate (in comparison to other teen moms) that she has the support of her baby's father, this probably isn't the guy she wants to end up with forever, but she can't seem ungrateful because then he might leave and she'd be screwed. On top of that, she's still exhausted from work and school and frequently depressed about all the high school social events that she's excluded from now.

 

And then when they do the update specials on the girls who weren't chosen for Teen Mom, the majority of them are working minimum wage jobs, have had another child or are currently pregnant, and school is something that is pushed way down on the priority list.

 

Of course, then along comes Teen Mom, with their 6 figure checks and d list fame and other perks, and you have 23 year old women that are permanently stunted at an emotional age of 16.

 

These are all really, really good points. When I watch 16&P I can see how hard teen parenthood is, and it's a pretty harsh reality for a lot of these girls. Even watching Catelynn's for example is so sad because you know how hard her life was and how difficult the decision was to give Carly up. Now all of them are pseudo-celebrities who really don't need to do anything except go around talking about being on MTV. In some ways I'm glad for them that they ended up in better economic circumstances, but I think the "message" of the show is a complete joke now.

[Snarky McSnarky]

Very interesting to see the behind the scenes treatment and producer shit stirring. But giving up your privacy for some free meals and a trip to NYC is an awful price to pay.

If they're going to film discussions with producers, they should go all the way and talk about all of the money the moms are being paid by MTV & how that enables them to live middle-class lives without having actual jobs.  Pretending they are just your average moms when they have no visible means of support is nothing short of fraud.

[GreatKazu]

If they're going to film discussions with producers, they should go all the way and talk about all of the money the moms are being paid by MTV & how that enables them to live middle-class lives without having actual jobs.  Pretending they are just your average moms when they have no visible means of support is nothing short of fraud.

Agree.

 

Maci has no problem being portrayed as a fraud, but god forbid, someone compare her to Farrah or mistake her for being the porn girl.

[missy jo]

As for Amber making sense, yes, she made sense, but I am sticking with what someone else here posted about Amber being an abuser. She is used to abusing certain people that she knows she can get away with abusing. She isn't going to go up against Farrah. Amber is not going to bully Farrah around the way she does to Gary and other people because she, like Maci, doesn't want to go up against Farrah who doesn't give a shit at how she looks to others or cares what she says.

 

 

Totally agree, but have to give a shout-out to Amber for using the term "passive-aggressive" in a sentence. Who knew she had it in her?

 

As far as production, I'm shocked at how much the girls are allowed to act like divas. The producers need to tell them to STFU and take a seat. They refuse to answer questions, complain, etc. You took the check, so do the job!

[NikSac]

If they're going to film discussions with producers, they should go all the way and talk about all of the money the moms are being paid by MTV & how that enables them to live middle-class lives without having actual jobs.  Pretending they are just your average moms when they have no visible means of support is nothing short of fraud.

 

I was glad they finally halfway mentioned the money in this episode. It was in the context of Farrah's snotty "Maci needs the money" remarks, so it wasn't super obvious, but I think that's the first time I remember hearing them even admit the girls get paid for filming. I do wish they were more open about what the girls make, and how. I guess technically it's not my business, but if you're going to advertise lower pregnancy rates due to showing how rough life is as a teen mom, I think it's only fair to also show how these moms are doing so well financially given their lack of skills, education, etc. If a teen is watching this show I want them to realize that these girls basically won the lottery when it comes to teen-mom-hood. It happens, but it sure isn't likely.

[GreatKazu]

Totally agree, but have to give a shout-out to Amber for using the term "passive-aggressive" in a sentence. Who knew she had it in her?

 

Likely because she was told many times how she was passive-aggressive herself. Therapists telling Amber how her behavior and words are passive-aggressive over and over, must have been engrained in her brain.

 

 

As far as production, I'm shocked at how much the girls are allowed to act like divas. The producers need to tell them to STFU and take a seat. They refuse to answer questions, complain, etc. You took the check, so do the job!

Tell me about it. I wish they would have dropped Maci like a bad habit.

[DangerousMinds]

I am 100% sure that all of Maci's ex-boyfriends (and most likely her current bf) have seen Farrah's porn. At least its "highlights." It was all over the place for free. Sorry, Maci.

[GreatKazu]

I am 100% sure that all of Maci's ex-boyfriends (and most likely her current bf) have seen Farrah's porn. At least its "highlights." It was all over the place for free. Sorry, Maci.

I would place money on that because I know I would definitely win. Yes, they all likely watched it and then some. Ryan talking crap about Farrah the way he does - the guy doth protest too much.  I have a feeling Maci talks a lot of crap about Farrah to Ryan. A lot. She is likely saying all kinds of shit about her to her friends. They probably sit there and call her a whore and slut all the while laughing and praising themselves for not sinking to that level.

 

Ryan sure had a change of mind when he wanted Farrah to follow him on social media.

Edited May 16, 2015 by GreatKazu

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

For fucks sake, the girl JUST had a baby! When are people going to lay off her about her weight?? Nova was maybe a month old when they went to NYC. She's just adjusting to having a newborn, probably SEVERELY sleep deprived and I'm sure the last thing on her mind is losing the baby weight. I had a baby around the same time she did and have JUST started making efforts to lose the weight. Tyler's not the only one that needs to back the fuck off Catelyn. It's "not okay"? Give me a break. Jesus.

I had a baby about a month before Catelynn had Nova and I am also just now starting to lose the extra weight (besides the 20 or so pounds I lost by delivering the baby and my fluid retention going down).

Had my husband been as obsessed with my weight as Tyler is with Catelynn's when I was only a month or two post-partum, exhausted, and dealing with hormones, I probably would have punched him in the nose (especially if he was doing it in front of a television audience).

Edited May 16, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[missy jo]

I bet all the guys, and maybe the some of the girls, have seen Back Door Teen Mom (I just can't with that name), if only for curiosity's sake. And Tyler's tracking it just for the Google rankings!

[purplemonkey]

Someone needs to pull a "Santorum", if they're not happy with a search result. ;-)

[fliptopbox]

I admit I watched Farrah's porn. I had to. I needed to see how bad it was. Surprisingly, as far as porn actresses go, Farrah wasn't so bad. Seems like taking it up the butt and making a performance out of it came naturally to her. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't bother trying to lie and say it was something it isn't. It was a porn, no matter how many times she says it's not. Add that to the fact that she's selling molds of her cooch and ass....most "regular" people don't get into that market. She also goes to porn conventions and works at strip clubs. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. well you know the rest.

 

I would have much more respect for her if she'd just be upfront and honest about everything. The lying only makes it worse and easier to trash her for it. So she was in a porn....own it!

[GreatKazu]

Has Farrah ever received backlash from the porn industry for insisting she didn't make a porn tape? Then again, maybe they aren't up in arms. They see her as the amateur that she is and don't see no need to mention her at all. I know James Deen took issue with her, but I was just wondering if anyone else took issue with how she went about it.

[missy jo]

I admit I watched Farrah's porn. I had to. I needed to see how bad it was.

 

 

Thanks for, ahem, taking one for the team! As far as her continuing to lie about it, here's a couple of gems. On Dr. Phil way back, she said that she made this tape for personal use, so that when she's older she can look at it and remember how good she used to look. Which is a strange kind of photo to look at to remember your heyday, but whatever.

 

Also, Radar Online posted the original email proposal she sent to Vivid, more than one month before the "discovery" of her supposed sex tape. She describes exactly what she wants to film scene by scene. What shocked me is that she is nearly illiterate and cannot even spell "whip."

[NikSac]

Thanks for, ahem, taking one for the team! As far as her continuing to lie about it, here's a couple of gems. On Dr. Phil way back, she said that she made this tape for personal use, so that when she's older she can look at it and remember how good she used to look. Which is a strange kind of photo to look at to remember your heyday, but whatever.

 

Also, Radar Online posted the original email proposal she sent to Vivid, more than one month before the "discovery" of her supposed sex tape. She describes exactly what she wants to film scene by scene. What shocked me is that she is nearly illiterate and cannot even spell "whip."

 

No doubt - I mean I can even kinda sorta understand a nude "boudoir" style photo, but a porno?  Really?  Are you going to show that to anyone one day and say "look how pretty I was!"?  I mean even a future boyfriend/husband is likely not going to want to see that. Surely she's not going to show her kid (right?), parents, etc.  I can't imagine watching that myself either if I were the "star" although I would never do a movie like that, so maybe I just really can't relate.

 

I'm surprised she's so illiterate as well. I'm no Farrah fan but I always thought of her as one of the more intelligent girls on the show.

[MissMel]

She has said she will show it to Sophia, one day. (Yeah, that's what every kid wants to see. Barf.)

[Kellyee]

Maci was wrong and a hypocrite, but Farrah could have handled the situation with grace and dignity. Instead, she acted psycho, took the spotlight off of Maci's stupidity where it belonged, and made herself look unstable and horrible. That being said, Maci's whole argument was ridiculous and made no sense. I would have respected her more if she just admitted she came back for the money.

 

So Maci's not graduating college anytime soon, I guess. All these girls are on track to be poor and uneducated forever. The MTV money and fame won't last, and they have nothing else except babies and crappy relationships. It really is sad to watch. Their kids are 5 years old, and they've accomplished nothing since the day the kids were born.

[Tatum]

 

So Maci's not graduating college anytime soon, I guess. All these girls are on track to be poor and uneducated forever. The MTV money and fame won't last, and they have nothing else except babies and crappy relationships. It really is sad to watch. Their kids are 5 years old, and they've accomplished nothing since the day the kids were born.

 

I know. Well, Cate and Amber are probably still better off financially than they would have been without Teen Mom. Maci and Farrah, not so sure. Had they not had the Teen Mom spotlight, they both would have been forced to plow through school in order to get a job. Sure, they are now making 5-10 times a year what they would have been making at a "normal" job, but had they gone the normal job route, they would have already had 2-4 years of professional experience, developed marketable skills for the workplace, and possibly had a retirement savings plan in place already. Not only that, they would have a few ideas on how to manage money and live on a budget.

 

Instead, these girls have chosen to blow their largesse on cars, tattoos, plastic surgery, traveling, rent (in Maci's case, not just her own, but also paid for her hangers on to live large as well). If any of these girls have invested a dime of their money I would be shocked. I can easily see these girls keeping $200,000-$500,000 in a 0% checking account at some local bank. Maybe the really savvy ones split their cash between the checking account and a .6% savings account.

[FozzyBear]

I know. Well, Cate and Amber are probably still better off financially than they would have been without Teen Mom. Maci and Farrah, not so sure. Had they not had the Teen Mom spotlight, they both would have been forced to plow through school in order to get a job. Sure, they are now making 5-10 times a year what they would have been making at a "normal" job, but had they gone the normal job route, they would have already had 2-4 years of professional experience, developed marketable skills for the workplace, and possibly had a retirement savings plan in place already. Not only that, they would have a few ideas on how to manage money and live on a budget.

Instead, these girls have chosen to blow their largesse on cars, tattoos, plastic surgery, traveling, rent (in Maci's case, not just her own, but also paid for her hangers on to live large as well). If any of these girls have invested a dime of their money I would be shocked. I can easily see these girls keeping $200,000-$500,000 in a 0% checking account at some local bank. Maybe the really savvy ones split their cash between the checking account and a .6% savings account.

I have to say I really doubt Caite would have finished school either way. Lots of people never go to college. I do think she and Tyler would have broken up by now, but my guess is pregnant with an open ended engagement is where she would have ended up anyway, just with a different guy. Come to think of it, Maci would probably have pretty much the same life too just in a small apartment instead of a big house. Amber would have spent some more time in jail if she hadn't had money for a lawyer and would have left jail for a much less comfortable situation, but other than that I don't think her life would be that different. In fact the only one that I think would have had a significantly different life without MTV is Farrah. I'm not sure what would have happened to her, but she wouldn't be doing this bizarre D-list Kardashian thing.

[Tatum]

Right, what I am getting at is that Amber and Cate weren't destined for huge things with or without the show, so they might be better off having participated in Teen Mom. Maci and Farrah however, might have made a lot more money in the short term, but may have negatively affected their long time earning power with their participation on this show and this show, despite making them richer than most 23 year olds (right now), could actually cost them financially in the long run.

 

If any of the teen moms had used their money for schooling (and finished) and wisely invested their earnings while living on a modest budget, they could have had a strong career path by age 23 and at 50, looked back and said, yeah, maybe I sold my dignity, but it helped set me up financially for life. Since none of these girls have spent the last 5 years doing anything to increase their earning power, they're going to wind up likely using their earnings to cover living expenses for the next few years and by age 30, have nothing to show for it.

[FozzyBear]

Right, what I am getting at is that Amber and Cate weren't destined for huge things with or without the show, so they might be better off having participated in Teen Mom. Maci and Farrah however, might have made a lot more money in the short term, but may have negatively affected their long time earning power with their participation on this show and this show, despite making them richer than most 23 year olds (right now), could actually cost them financially in the long run.

If any of the teen moms had used their money for schooling (and finished) and wisely invested their earnings while living on a modest budget, they could have had a strong career path by age 23 and at 50, looked back and said, yeah, maybe I sold my dignity, but it helped set me up financially for life. Since none of these girls have spent the last 5 years doing anything to increase their earning power, they're going to wind up likely using their earnings to cover living expenses for the next few years and by age 30, have nothing to show for it.

Yeah, I think we're actually making the same point. These girls had a once in a lifetime opportunity to really change the course of their future...and they did nothing. They've had 6 years of well paid, insanely flexible work to allow them to do anything. Go to school, start a business, move across the country, anything really. At best, they bought houses. They're all pretty much living slightly more comfortable versions of the dead end lives they were looking at during 16&P. For better or worse, Farrah is the only one who grabbed onto MTV with both hands and started swimming like a drowning man that sees land. Too bad the only one with any ambition is also a wack job.

[msblossom]

Yeah, I think we're actually making the same point. These girls had a once in a lifetime opportunity to really change the course of their future...and they did nothing. They've had 6 years of well paid, insanely flexible work to allow them to do anything. Go to school, start a business, move across the country, anything really. At best, they bought houses. They're all pretty much living slightly more comfortable versions of the dead end lives they were looking at during 16&P. For better or worse, Farrah is the only one who grabbed onto MTV with both hands and started swimming like a drowning man that sees land. Too bad the only one with any ambition is also a wack job.

I agree.

Although I don't like her much, I think the person who will turn out with the best and most 'normal' life is Maci. But I would have predicted that without TM as well, and in fact, had these girls not gotten pregnant I still say Maci would have had a happy, decent, and functional life -- more so than the others, imo, except she likely would have attended college with her friends and graduated.

Farrah too, would likely have gone away to college had she not gotten pregnant and in the long run been better off. She'd still be Farrah, but less entiteled and she'd have had to make adjustments to socially fit in better with others.

Cate and Amber would have had a tougher life initially, their outcomes wouldn't be all that different except that Tyler would have been long gone by now w/o the MTV money and fame.

[Tatum]

 

I think the person who will turn out with the best and most 'normal' life is Maci. But I would have predicted that without TM as well, and in fact, had these girls not gotten pregnant I still say Maci would have had a happy, decent, and functional life -- more so than the others, imo, except she likely would have attended college with her friends and graduated.

 

That's the argument I was trying to make actually- that Maci may actually be hindered by Teen Mom, not helped. Had Maci been pregnant in high school, graduated, and enrolled in college, and she and MTV parted ways after 16 and Pregnant, Maci would have been forced to finish school, because she would have needed the money. Not only would she have been forced to finish, but she would have been forced to pick a major or trade that would provide a decent income- kind of like Kailyn did when she was going to school to be a dental hygienist. No, it's no one's dream career, but the money is good and the program is quick. Had that happened, Maci could have been working full time at 21 and spent the last two years developing skills, networking, perhaps contributing to a 401K, etc.- and most importantly- not making a fool of herself on national TV.

 

I am sure Maci would argue at this point that she gets paid $200K a year and hasn't had to work outside of the home in 6 years and gets to travel- how could a boring career that pays maybe $30-$40K a year working 40 hours a week even compare to that? And in this exact time, it can't. However, compare Alternate Universe Dental Hygienist Maci (just for example) at age 35 and Former Reality Star Maci at 35 and see who truly comes out ahead. I am guessing it's not the latter- Maci hasn't been motivated to work or go to school because she hasn't had to. I am guessing she will live off her Teen Mom money until it runs out- prob in a few years- and then she'll have to enter the workforce in her late 20s, having spent a decade with no marketable skills or anything to put on a resume (other than mad twitter skills), no retirement plan, AND she might have a hard time being taken seriously in the professional world given how she's made an ass out of herself more than once publicly.

 

On the other hand, I don't think Teen Mom has affected Amber and Cate that much, as they were broke, lazy, and unmotivated prior to Teen Mom, and are now comfortable, lazy, and unmotivated, and will be broke, lazy, and unmotivated when the money runs out. These two girls, unlike Maci, weren't ever scrambling to actually get ahead in life until the Gravy Train showed up and screeched any ambition or work ethic they ever had into a halt.

 

Farrah I am not sure about. I kind of feel like she would have stomped on few hands climbing the ladder and would have compromised her morals to get ahead in any field she was ever in, and may have been successful without Teen Mom. Plus, I get the impression she kind of regrets her decision to get involved in porn. So, in a way, Teen Mom might have hurt Farrah as well.

[Meghansmom]

I did not see the wine glass incident with Amber, but if she and her skeevy fellow addict think drinking is okay, wow, just wow.  Classic substitution from one mind altering substance to another.  It won't be long before we see a news report on a fight, DWI, DUI, whatever.  Take your pick.  I am in recovery,  I know what recovery is. Amber is not even abstinent let alone in recovery.  Just because she has been to therapy and maybe some meetings she thinks that she knows herself.  Can only speak for myself, but in my case I am extremely self aware thanks to my recovery.  If she thinks she is enlightened, she is so sadly on the road to destruction yet again.

[msblossom]

That's the argument I was trying to make actually- that Maci may actually be hindered by Teen Mom, not helped. Had Maci been pregnant in high school, graduated, and enrolled in college, and she and MTV parted ways after 16 and Pregnant, Maci would have been forced to finish school, because she would have needed the money. Not only would she have been forced to finish, but she would have been forced to pick a major or trade that would provide a decent income- kind of like Kailyn did when she was going to school to be a dental hygienist. No, it's no one's dream career, but the money is good and the program is quick. Had that happened, Maci could have been working full time at 21 and spent the last two years developing skills, networking, perhaps contributing to a 401K, etc.- and most importantly- not making a fool of herself on national TV.

 

I am sure Maci would argue at this point that she gets paid $200K a year and hasn't had to work outside of the home in 6 years and gets to travel- how could a boring career that pays maybe $30-$40K a year working 40 hours a week even compare to that? And in this exact time, it can't. However, compare Alternate Universe Dental Hygienist Maci (just for example) at age 35 and Former Reality Star Maci at 35 and see who truly comes out ahead. I am guessing it's not the latter- Maci hasn't been motivated to work or go to school because she hasn't had to. I am guessing she will live off her Teen Mom money until it runs out- prob in a few years- and then she'll have to enter the workforce in her late 20s, having spent a decade with no marketable skills or anything to put on a resume (other than mad twitter skills), no retirement plan, AND she might have a hard time being taken seriously in the professional world given how she's made an ass out of herself more than once publicly.

 

On the other hand, I don't think Teen Mom has affected Amber and Cate that much, as they were broke, lazy, and unmotivated prior to Teen Mom, and are now comfortable, lazy, and unmotivated, and will be broke, lazy, and unmotivated when the money runs out. These two girls, unlike Maci, weren't ever scrambling to actually get ahead in life until the Gravy Train showed up and screeched any ambition or work ethic they ever had into a halt.

 

Farrah I am not sure about. I kind of feel like she would have stomped on few hands climbing the ladder and would have compromised her morals to get ahead in any field she was ever in, and may have been successful without Teen Mom. Plus, I get the impression she kind of regrets her decision to get involved in porn. So, in a way, Teen Mom might have hurt Farrah as well.

You make some good points and I generally agree with your premise, but I'm not sure Maci would have finished college in 4 years if she was raising Bentley w/o MTV. I think she'd likely have stayed with her parents and tried harder with her classes. Possibly graduating in 6 years if she was getting a bachelors. However, she just as likely might have pursued Kyle but wouldn't have had the resources to move to Nashville and change schools. Regardless, without the MTV money she would have been less independent and under her parents authority more -- which would have been a good thing bc she would have had less time and money to squander.

I don't think Farrah would have ever gone into the porn or sex toy industry but for the fact that she had the opportunity and exposure that MTV provided. She saw it as her golden ticket to keep her 'career' going and to provide an income in the manner to which she grew accustomed to.

[Elizabeth9]

I could see Farrah being a dancer at some point without TM. She seems drawn to the whole adult profession.

[salvame]

If Farrah plans to show her seed tape to Sophia, I hope she has saved enough money to pay for the years of therapy the kid will need, as if she won't already be messed up enough.

I was totally fine with not bringing Farrah back. She has always had an entitled attitude, and I loathe her inability to converse without totally shutting down anyone else's opinion. She also likes to throw in some big words so she sounds more intelligent, but doesn't even realize she is using either the wrong word or the wrong form of a word, so she ends sounding even more stupid. She may be the most ambitious of the girls, but she is so self involved and the family so dysfunctional, I really feel for Sophia and what the future holds for her.