Frontline - General Discussion

[David T. Cole]

Discuss Frontline Here!

[Tara Ariano]

Families in the South African nation of Swaziland fight hopeless battles against strains of tuberculosis that are highly resistant to drug treatments.

[Dagny]

That was so sad the heartbreak of the people who were isolated and dying alone.  That little girl definitely had more courage than I to keep on taking all of those pills for months.

[all4mom]

Great documentary, as always.  I would suspect that the apparent widespread practice of starting the antibiotics and then stopping halfway through (because of the number and side effects) might have something to do with the development of antibiotic-resistant strains; it's well known that this practice causes bacteria to grow stronger, proliferate, and become treatment-resistant.  Why could the little girl not return home to her brother?  His soliloquy on being alone was very beautiful; wish I could find the transcript of that.

[Bastet]

His soliloquy on being alone was very beautiful; wish I could find the transcript of that.

Here is the transcript of the entire episode.

[CherryMalotte]

I was geared up for this one after seeing Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God last year.   Ratzinger should have never accepted the Pope job to begin with.  Until they get rid of a couple of generations of those old fucks there's never going to be any real change in the church, or until they get rid of the celibacy bullshit.  I have hopes with Pope Francis but I don't think he'll be able to fix all that ails the catholic church.    

[Tara Ariano]

A look at mass incarceration in the U.S. through the prism of a housing project in Louisville, Ky., where many residents have done time. One has been in and out of prison for 40 years; a 15 year old faces juvenile detention due to persistent truancy; and another, a Vietnam veteran, suffers from addiction issues and PTSD. Included: the efforts of Mark Bolton, the city's director of corrections, as he tries to move inmates back into the community.

[Tara Ariano]

The history of the massive National Security Agency surveillance program that started after September 11th, featuring remarks from intelligence insiders, cabinet officials and government whistle-blowers. Included: how the U.S. government came to monitor the communications of millions of Americans and to collect billions of records on ordinary people around the world.

[Bastet]

I have quite the backlog of Frontline episodes to view, and I suspect this is one I will have to be in just the right mood - AKA slightly drunk - to watch, lest my blood pressure shoot off the charts.

[Dagny]

Going to watch it, but I am happy with my digital overlords.

 

ETA - Another fine blood pressure rising show from Frontline.  Parts of it was hard to hear since every time Gonzales showed up on the screen, a voice kept shouting "War Criminal". I didn't realize how much push back there was within the intelligence community to the sucking up of information.  Some of them really tried.  It now makes sense that people leaked to other newspapers than the NYT since they sat on the story for so long.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Dagny

[Catherinewriter]

Dagny, I also didn't realize that there were numerous folks who tried in so many ways to detail this program - people I'd never heard of. I agree with your response to seeing Gonzales, I just wanted to hurl. Also Bush and Haydon. Thank the gods of whistleblowers (are there any?) that we didn't have to watch/listen to Cheney, except for a few stills.

[Dagny]

If they were able to get Cheney for a sit down, I'd have to buy a new TV. Blood pressure just rises thinking about that man without a heart.

[Dagny]

Apologies if this is considered a double post, but this is regarding Part II.

 

Is it ironic that I clicked on a Google Search for PBS video of Frontline United States of Secrets and it took me to a "Page Not Found (404)" error on PBS Video website?

 

This episode explored how much the corporations were in bed with the US government. OMG Mike Hayden is one smarmy POS. He was about two lines away from the A Few Good Men speech during his interview. His favorite word was also "liberal democracy".  I get the feeling he likes oligarchy or junta better. Yes, Google mines my searches. It must confuse them since I Google mainly at work for WORK stuff. The ads I get are very industrial with the random Google ad for straight edge razors.  I've also been know to do a tight enough of a search to get no results. Yay me.

[formerlyfreedom]

Personal and dramatic footage reveal a look inside the raging battle zones of Ukraine and Syria.

 

 

[Dagny]

Ukraine - When the father and son were at the skirmish in town, the most surreal part was them talking to the mom on cell phone and the kid saying that they were having breakfast in the canteen while people were getting shot.  They focused a lot on the Ukrainian nationalist with historic ties to the Nazis (fought both the Nazis and the Russians in WWII) and a little on the Russian backed groups.  I would have like to know more about the guy that backed the pro-Russian stance (if he was Russian origin or Ukrainian.  During the entire segment, I kept wondering how much they still care about what happened to them under Stalin or if it was in the past enough for them to not like Russia for other reason.

 

Syria - Like we want to get into another mess in the Middle East. 

[Taylorh2]

Anyone watched last night's show?

I really want to help Demetria because she is  not being helped in the Juvenile system in KY.  There is no way that girl show be locked up in a prison. She clearly has a  medical/psychological disorder. When she was calling her Aunt to see if her Aunt would pick her up on Sunday and take her to her mother's grave, her ticks were out of control. She clearly needs medical help. I really hope that the person the was in the room with her was documenting all the see saw. 

 

The judge actually asked Dementria if she was "jumpy" 

 

That girl need medical help right now!!!!!

[Taylorh2]

Bump.

[BungalowSummer]

I finally caught the entire program with the rerun last night on WNET-13 and I found some of the footage and its revelations extraordinary.

Most amazing to me was the suggestion -- actually, much more than a suggestion -- that Pope Francis could be targeted for assassination by either malignant actors within the Curia or by the Mafia/organized crime figures.

Edited July 9, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[Primetimer]

Sarah's answer might surprise you.

Read the story

[Dagny]

Thanks for watching it for me. Unfortunately, I still don't have it in me to watch the old Bush people without screaming at the TV. Considering I felt it was never ours to have, when we lost it shouldn't have been discussed. We lost it when we went "to war with the army we got."

[mrsdalgliesh]

This. So much this.

[millennium]

In all my life, I've never experienced such a dangerous divide between reality and perception as existed during those years. Losing Iraq? How about Losing America? The neocon Bush administration destroyed my image of the country I grew up in.

[Heather]

I was deployed to Iraq during the end of the war from Aug 2010 - 11 and it was obvious that there was a distinct difference between American media portrayal of the draw down and what actually was happening. There was no infrastructure, unemployment was at 75% of adults, rubble and trash were everywhere. The interpreter I worked with had running water for two hours a day and had to store water in reservoirs and electricity for a hour a week in downtown Baghdad in 120. I never supported the Iraq War but being there it felt that we were biding time until the Sunni, Shiite, and Kurds had a civil war after the US left. The US destroyed a country for whatever reason Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld know and everything that happened after is just completely heartbreaking.

[millennium]

Thanks for your service, Heather. 

 

Never supported the war; always supported our people there.

[bosawks]

Watching this was a a total waste of my good mood.

 

Viewer beware you should be pissed off from the start because you'll certainly be pissed off by the end.

[NextIteration]

The neocon Bush administration destroyed my image of the country I grew up in.

 

This, a million times. :(

 

Thank you for your service, Heather.

[suomi]

I still remember the day this issue of VF came in the mail. I read this article first, and then I read it again. I think about it every time one of those rat bastards shows up on my TV screen. WTF?

 

 

Between April 2003 and June 2004, $12 billion in U.S. currency—much of it belonging to the Iraqi people—was shipped from the Federal Reserve to Baghdad, where it was dispensed by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Some of the cash went to pay for projects and keep ministries afloat, but, incredibly, at least $9 billion has gone missing, unaccounted for, in a frenzy of mismanagement and greed. Following a trail that leads from a safe in one of Saddam's palaces to a house near San Diego, to a P.O. box in the Bahamas, the authors discover just how little anyone cared about how the money was handled.

 

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/10/iraq_billions200710#

[Zahdii]

"Outbreak" - First showing 5/05/2015
Global leaders, health care workers and individuals affected by the Ebola virus epidemic reveal how mistakes that were made following the outbreak in the forests of Guinea contributed to the spread of the disease throughout West Africa.

 

I'll have to watch again because the 10 - 11 slot is always chaotic around my house.  However, I thought that there is easily enough to say to warrant more than one hour.  I was astounded by the government official that was so angry with the Doctors Without Borders guy for calling the epidemic 'more severe' than what the government was saying.  His response?  To order the DWB to only count verified cases of Ebola deaths, thus artificially bolstering the official government position that a few cases of Ebola was not a big deal.  To give an interview and be so tone deaf as to unapologetically explain that he was the one who gave the order was astounding.  Is that guy still in his position?  Because that's not the kind of guy I'd want in charge during the next outbreak.

[walnutqueen]

That Ebola episode was horrifically terrifying.

[Morbs]

Regarding The Trouble with Chicken, David E. Hoffman drives me nuts.  I don't know if he has it in his contract that he must have a certain amount of screentime, but every 30 seconds they cut to him pursing his lips and nodding along like an idiot or raising his eyebrows in disbelief.  His episodes are always the worst because he tries to make the topic all about him in some way.  I don't get why no one tells him to at least try not look like a doofus. 

[Taylorh2]

Growing Up Trans

 

 

First airing: June 30 2015.

 

This was very good.

[RodLu]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=highest%20incarceration%20rate%20in%20the%20world

[suomi]

^^^ Our most shameful statistic.

[RodLu]

Aye, suomi....... -_-

[walnutqueen]

Supplements and Safety  2016.01.19

 

This episode should be a wake-up call for anyone who is taking supplements.  The results of REAL scientific testing were frightening.  If you missed it, here's the link : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/

[Bastet]

I haven't watched it yet, but I recorded it, because I go back and forth on whether I should be taking certain supplements (or giving them to my cats).  I try to get everything I need from food, but I fall short with certain things.  Supplements help.  But at what cost?  The thing that burns me is it's not even an informed risk I'm taking -- it's one thing if I have accurate information on what's in them and decide the benefits outweigh the risks, but I don't have the full picture.  So I'm left feeling apprehensive when I skip my vitamins ... and when I take them.

[walnutqueen]

I'm bringing this over from the PBS thread, just to add to the conversation about this episode:

 

 

 

I was just looking for that thread, because the episode had me going, "Holy shit!"

The FDA guy who became a lobbyist was a dick -- regurgitating the bullshit that the revolving door between industry and government is a good thing for consumers, or snarking to the reporter about how many fraudulent supplement companies she had closed down.

Intriguing (but not unexpected) how many people declined to be interviewed to get called on their lies.

Kudos to Nature's Way. I'm going to look for their products.

 

 

 

FDA lobbyist was slimy.  I loved the other guy who tried to provide scientific proof for his fish oil/heart disease claims, and the studies he cited actually refuted his claims.  His response "Well, that's just the abstract you're reading, the full report hasn't been released" was neatly countered by the interviewer "Well, the conclusions would be the same, right?".   Snap!   :-)

[suomi]

Thank you much. I missed the program and I am glad to see the information here. I, too, wonder about certain specialty supplements, such as those promoted for optimum eye health (because I'm 65 now).

[glowlights]

This is such an important topic, I'm so glad Frontline covered it! There are really valid reasons for some people to take supplements like calcium, iron or Vitamin D, and of course prenatal vitamins, but it should not be a crap shoot as to purity, quality, and dosage accuracy. It's just really unconscionable imo.

 

Two online resources for checking to see how your brand held up under independent testing:

consumerlab.com (paid subscription)

labdoor.com (free)

 

Or check the USP verification:

usp.org

 

Or the NSF verification:

nsf.org

[candall]

I was hoping for some chatter about the Seattle heroin show.  Is that an old one?  It was so interesting, I turned it off when I was sleepy to save for full consciousness.

 

In particular, I liked the part about the methadone clinic controversy and the man who led the NIMBY protest. . . until he discovered his own son was a hardcore drug user.

 

He gets points for appearing on camera and being candid about his change of heart, but, oh man, it's just so satisfying when someone's suddenly thrust into the other set of shoes for a mile or two.

 

There are so many lawmakers and pols I'd love to magically teleport for 90 days into a world where their kids didn't have medical insurance or access to a desperately needed women's clinic, or the tapwater was combustible, or, or, or, or. . . .

 

Oops, sorry, got caught up in my own fantasy.

 

Anyway, Frontline, that old warhorse, did an excellent job explaining how people dying in unmitigated pain, not so long ago, led to National Honor Society heroin addicts.

[walnutqueen]

An excellent episode, and well worth the 2 hour report.  I was particularly interested in the research being conducted on the "addicted brain", because as much as all these "programs", treatment centers and AA/NA want to tout their knowledge and success, they really have NO IDEA what they are doing and why it works for so few addicts.

 

I also found it discouraging that a doctor could prescribe as much Oxy as he wanted, but not suboxone, and that methadone clinics are so sparse and inaccessible.

[candall]

Right.

 

I was never quite sure about the whys and wherefores of methadone, but this show finally cleared it up for me.  A dose of something that keeps you going all day so you aren't jonesing for a heroin fix every few hours--makes sense, after hearing a thousand times from addicts that they don't get high anymore, they just need it to feel normal.

 

And the man with the job and the family, who gets up at 3:45 every day to drive to the methadone clinic, sounded entirely "normal."

 

So then it's easier to consider the doctor's comparison to a diabetic's insulin.  As you say, WQ, they're virtually clueless about the brain functions--maybe addicts have thrown some kind of permanent switch in the breaker box, like converting from gas to diesel.

 

In which case, long-term accessible methadone/suboxone is in order.

 

Dot dot dot:  connected.  Good job, Frontline.

***********

The methadone/suboxone system, as represented by the man I mentioned above, seemed to be the model all these experts should be exploring.  Because, while I see that it's not doing either addicts or society much good to overflow the prisons, that LEAD program needs some tweaks.  "Just let us know when you feel ready for help and meanwhile, carry on" is going to end with that girl just as dead.

Edited February 26, 2016 by candall

[candall]

Continued, because I kept on thinking.

 

I guess the main thing about model methadone man is that he wanted to get off the heroin rollercoaster.  And that's the point in time LEAD is waiting for with their participants.

 

But doesn't there need to be some kind of stick to go along with the "you won't be arrested" carrot?  Do many addicts wake up one morning and decide it's time to pull the act together, grow up, get a job, yadda yadda?  Even the "nice middle aged housewife" self-sabotaged a few days before she was due to have her record expunged by two successful years of being monitored by drug court.

 

Still thinking. . .

[irisheyes]

If you missed it, watch this one.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/children-of-syria/

Watching a five year old run terrified from a playground because she thinks the helicopter above her could drop bombs is heartbreaking.

[Mrs Shibbles]

If you missed it, watch this one.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/children-of-syria/

Watching a five year old run terrified from a playground because she thinks the helicopter above her could drop bombs is heartbreaking.

Just watched it. I agree. The faces of those children will stay with me. Edited April 21, 2016 by Mrs Shibbles

[Trini]

Quote

S34, E11

"A Subprime Education/ The Education of Omarina"

Predatory behavior and fraud in the for-profit college industry; implosion of Corinthian Colleges; Omarina's Story.

So these for-profit schools get their profit from government loans? Omarina's story reminds me of a middle schooler I know that could use extra attention to keep him in school, and push him to finish.

[Demian]

This "Documenting Hate" series just makes me want to kill either myself, because I'm sick of dealing with it after 50 years, or all of the hateful bags of shit the series is documenting, because they fucking deserve it.  Especially now that I live smack in the middle of red-state Pennsyltucky, where said hateful bags of shit grow and thrive.

[walnutqueen]

20 hours ago, Demian said:

This "Documenting Hate" series just makes me want to kill either myself, because I'm sick of dealing with it after 50 years, or all of the hateful bags of shit the series is documenting, because they fucking deserve it.  Especially now that I live smack in the middle of red-state Pennsyltucky, where said hateful bags of shit grow and thrive.

It is utterly disheartening to realize how many hate-filled people live among us.  It makes me glad I am a hermit, and commune mostly with animals.

[Guest]

On 11/20/2018 at 10:36 PM, Demian said:

 

This "Documenting Hate" series just makes me want to kill either myself, because I'm sick of dealing with it after 50 years, or all of the hateful bags of shit the series is documenting, because they fucking deserve it.  Especially now that I live smack in the middle of red-state Pennsyltucky, where said hateful bags of shit grow and thrive.

 

The same cretins that were featured in Documenting Hate seem to be the exact same type of cretins I've seen profiled in countless other docs about these so-called white supremacists over the past couple decades I've been watching this stuff. I'm still glad that Frontline is choosing to shine a light on these cockroaches although they don't seem to operating so much in the shadows anymore which is what's even more terrifying.

What always, always makes me laugh is that these so-called supremacists are the least supreme humans on the planet—rotted teeth, bad skin, dumb as a bag of impoverished hammers. They have pretty low standards for a "master race" if you ask me. 

I don't recall the name of the journalist from ProPublica who is helming this particular series for Frontline—and I certainly have no problem with the quality of his work—but I do miss the guy who normally narrates the series. 

[Rap541]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:30 PM, Giant Misfit said:

What always, always makes me laugh is that these so-called supremacists are the least supreme humans on the planet—rotted teeth, bad skin, dumb as a bag of impoverished hammers. They have pretty low standards for a "master race" if you ask me. 

But frankly, thats where the rage comes from. Society to a point says that by dint of being white, you should be doing better. White people have that privilege, that basic step up... and I don't discount that step up at all, but you do need to have some minimal skills to take advantage of that step up. If you're not very smart - average or lower, no matter what color you are, its hard to escape poverty and there are many traps and pitfalls. Good lord, if watching Making a Murderer has taught me anything about poor white people, its that there's a subclass of really not well educated white people out there who have room temperature IQs and who fall apart the second they're shifted out of their comfort zone. If you aren't very smart its easy to fall for scams and people who lie and tricks. And  - right or wrong - culturally communities in America look down on people who take advantage of social benefits if they are white.

So you're poor, you're struggling, you're looked down on if you take advantage of welfare benefits, and then you see social benefits being offered to non white people who financially may be if not doing better than you, but certainly might be doing as well as you are doing... and it's frustrating to know you're shut out. Either you face social shaming for taking advantage of the same programs OR you don't qualify for those programs because you're white. When I was in college in the early 1990s, there was a program where inner city kids (black mostly, and perhaps due to where I lived, Cambodian and Vietnamese) who got accepted to my college got a special weekly stipend, and extra tutoring, and cut rate tuition. I did not qualify for this program because my grades in high school were too good, and my struggling lower middle class parents made too much money, and I was not a member of a minority race. The only white kid I knew who qualified for this program was someone that had been a foster kid. This frustrated me a great deal, because it very much felt like I was being handed a higher bill for school because I was white, and my reward for good grades was LESS money for school.

Now, I don't have a room temperature IQ so I can see beyond my own anger at what was really going on. The kids who qualified for this program went to really bad schools. Thats why they got free tutoring, and thats why most of them really struggled with college courses.  While I perceived them at a similar financial level, they weren't, and they were all more likely to end up with a pile of student loan payments and no college degree (and in fact when I graduated, it was pretty noticeable that of the kids who were in this program, most had failed out over the years) But... along with applauding myself for being so open minded and clever, I can see where this program would create some serious anger (and did create some serious anger) with average intellect white students from not so great backgrounds who were told they were basically too white and too wealthy to qualify.

Then consider how tales of these programs get related to family members and people in the community who aren't terribly smart. What this all translates to is that when you're poor *white* trash, you get nothing and are trash. If you were a member of some minority, you'd get something without the public shaming of "look at those white folk on welfare, why aren't they grabbing the brass ring, they're white, they *should* be successful, not poor!". This is where the rage ball starts to roll downhill.

And this is why you rarely see wealthy white people participating in these rallies. I am not btw saying that wealthy white people aren't racist - because oh yes they are - but I am saying that their reasons for racism tend to be more hidden.  The people who attend these rallies feel like they have been left behind - they're not enjoying the success of being white that they are told they should be receiving and they perceive non whites demanding more rights as losing out even more - they're white but as poor as non whites, they're not successful, they're not offered any special programs to raise them up AND NOW they're starting to feel outnumbered. 

Education will help but only so much, I fear.