S07.E04: The Art Of Being A Cougar

[WireWrap]

While I happen to agree with you about the fact that Bethenny wanted it all, who doesn't? , I also believe that at the core this has always bothered me. Somehow in our society divorce still equals failure and marriage equals success.  The examples of a Ramona living a lie for so many years do not make one iota of difference it seems.

 

Business men are judged based on their proffesional acomplishments, it is sort of stated that a succesful business man must be smart, driven and a great catch even if they are the worse jerks in the world. They are admired.

 

Business women not only have to be extremely accomplished, but they also have to be sweet and demure as to not rub the wrong feathers and be protrayed as a bitch, they have to be compassionate and caring as to give the right image, they have to have a well rounded family or their accomplishments mean nothing. WTF?

 

Bethenny does have a family, she has a daughter that means the world to her, just because she is divorced that makes her an incomplete woman or not well rounded? I am glad nobody told me that few years ago when I was going through an excrutiating divorce, I am happy my friends probably hid their sorrow over my shattered life, I am happy that my parents didn't alow to think my life was over.

 

I was more happy the three years that I was divorced than the 10 years that I was married , how is that possible? Maybe I am just lucky and didn't realize that I was an incomplete person by daring to think that my family was just my children and I.  Maybe Bethenny is just fine with being with her daughter instead of having to deal with someone like Jason.

 

Bethenny's SG line was only possible because of her popularity? I beg to disagree, there has been many, many housewives just as popular if not more than Bethenny, were are their millions? were are the empires they have built? How about Teresa and her hordes of fanatics, how about the most popular one LisaV, except for her new sangria and a new opened restaurant, where is her BEAM deal? how about Nene during her first three seasons when she was wildly popular? how about every other Bravo HW who has signed for this show with the idea of getting a platform for their wares, has any of them had any remarkable success?  It seems to me that if all a person needed was to be a Bravo HW and be popular we would have had a lot more stories of success than what we actually have,

 

To deny Bethenny's business acumen just because her marriage didn't work is petty IMO.

I think both men and women are better, more rounded people when they have family/kids because it teaches all of us more give/take than being single/no children. I am going by what Bethenny said about herself as well. Of course being divorced does not make her "incomplete" but her actions toward her soon to be ex during their marriage left a bad taste in a lot of viewers mouths, including mine. She is a miserable person and spreads her misery everywhere she goes and if she were a man, I would still say the same thing, gender is not an issue here IMO. Yes, she has accomplished much but it has all been based off her success on this show and she was the first to do it before the bloom faded off the HW franchise with the viewers. I am not so sure that she would have been as big a success without her fans on the show buying what she was selling. Her other products, the blended/mixer, books, food line are not doing all that well and IMO it is because she no longer has the fan base she once had, Bethenny was at 1 time, the darling of the HW shows, all the shows but that moment has long past. IMO, that is why she is back, not because Andy is paying her big money, she doesn't need it, not because she missed being on the show or feels some responsibility to help "save" the show but because she is desperate to rebuild her fan base to sell her products. JMO

[jennylauren123]

Did I hear Carole tell those two young guys at the birthday dinner that she modeled Jordache Jeans?

 

Carole was a "fit model" or "fitting model" for Jordache jeans, meaning that she was used to determine the proportions and fit of the jeans. Behind the scenes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitting_model

[talula]

IMO Carole is showing her true self...she likes a younger guy and raunchy college age behaviour. I don't believe she cares what the viewers think. Maybe she'll blog about it...or not...did she turn in those 80,000 words yet toward her new novel?

[sasha206]

I haven't heard or read one person yet who has commented on what happened with Carole and Adam and the puking as "cute."   I like Carole, but found that story gross --- and I most definitely disagree with her assertion that men like it when women barf on them .... or whatever nonsense she was "spewing." 

 

 

Soooo basically we're not allowed to disagree with the characterization of Carole as an ugly, over-the-hill desperate wanna-be hipster?  Ok got it. 

 

 

Honestly, what does this even mean?  Looks and levels of attractiveness are subjective.  Maybe Carole thinks she's Cindy Crawford, and there is *nothing* wrong with that. (and hell I'm sure there's somebody out there who thinks Cindy Crawford is butt-ugly).  But to put forth the notion that because you - personally - don't like her because she appears to be acting in a manner that suggests she's more attractive than YOU think she is? Sounds ludicrous to me. 

 

I'm saying that she's full of herself and views herself as much more physically attractive than *I think* she is while she makes cracks about Ramona's appearance and attractiveness to men.  She's making comments on someone's subjective attractiveness too.  We all do.

 

Haven't you ever met a person who is attractive but walks around with an air about as though they are the hottest thing since sliced break?  And you walk away with the view, "They aren't all that"?  I don't think that concept is ludicrous although I agree that attractiveness is subjective.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[shoegal]

I'm saying that she's full of herself and views herself as much more physically attractive than she is while she makes cracks about Ramona's appearance and attractiveness to men.

She thinks she is much more attractive than she is? How is this any different than cracks Carole made about Ramona's attractiveness?

Carole was catty about Ramona. I don't see any need to be catty about Carole to point this out.

FTR, I think Carole and Ramona are both attractive. If I were a man and had to pick one to date, it would be Carole hands down. I could never handle the Ramonacoaster. I'd rather be puked on.

[sasha206]

She thinks she is much more attractive than she is? How is this any different than cracks Carole made about Ramona's attractiveness?

Carole was catty about Ramona. I don't see any need to be catty about Carole to point this out.

FTR, I think Carole and Ramona are both attractive. If I were a man and had to pick one to date, it would be Carole hands down. I could never handle the Ramonacoaster. I'd rather be puked on.

 

 

I'm sharing my personal view on a forum where we discuss all things RH (and have even apologized for the manner in which I have expressed it) that I think Carole thinks she's extremely physically desirable.  Bully for her.  But at the same time, she's making cracks about Ramona's dress size and attractiveness as though her thinness puts her into another stratosphere of beauty.  You think she's attractive and others do as well.  That's cool.  I'm not here to convince you of my opinion, just stating why she's rubbing me the wrong way.  

 

On that I'm out of this discussion.  ETA:  Okay I'm not.  I totally agree I'd rather be puked on than date Ramona!

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[ButterQueen]

On a shallow note, did anyone think the cook/maid/nannie looked disappointed that Kristin was going to save those salads for dinner with Josh? Kristin even said on the phone that they were made for lunch. Just me?

I'm gonna have to agree with Bethenny on this one.....Heather was acting like a grade schooler at lunch. And why was she only sad that Kristin wasn't invited when Dorinda, who was seated next to her, wasn't invited either.

I'm not liking Dorinda that much.

[jaync]

Why is it assumed Taylor Swift dated that kid because of his Kennedy bloodline, and not because he's a Schwarzenegger?

 

Sonia is a handsome woman with a great figure and is certainly very fun to be around.  But I seriously don't think men are drawn to her w/o the Real Housewives and Morgn name.

I'm confused...so being a handsome woman with a great figure and fun disposition isn't enough to attract a man without an ulterior motive?

 

She's not a teenager anymore.

Neither is Adam.

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Gee, Idk, I think Sonja is looking pretty fantastic lately.  I thought she looked really good on WWHL.  OK, that home-sewn horrible thing she was wearing?  That, I did not care for.  But her face looks great.  

 

And btw, I was shocked to actually see Sonja coming out of her townhouse last week.  Let me just say I've passed by her townhouse a bazillion times cuz I live a few blocks away & it's on the way to the subway for me.  But I've NEVER seen any activity coming from there, altho it does look (surprisingly) very nicely kept, from the street view.  Anyhoo, I couldn't believe Sonja was coming out, as I passed by.  

 

So I glanced very, very quickly, because I would NOT have done anything else -- just too wacky & intrusive & not my style.  And she was with what looked like her "interns" -- 2 young college kids, one of whom was holding an open laptop & she seemed to be ordering them around.  She looked really good & she was dressed beautifully.  She also has a way of holding herself (with her chin jutting up & out) & walking quite regally, that she just looks like a hoity-toidy broad.  Hee!  Anyhoo, in person she presents a far different impression than Bethenny's heel-stomping, shlumpy walk does.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[sasha206]

Why is it assumed Taylor Swift dated that kid because of his Kennedy bloodline, and not because he's a Schwarzenegger?

 

I'm confused...so being a handsome woman with a great figure and fun disposition isn't enough to attract a man without an ulterior motive?

 

Neither is Adam.

 

Because the Kennedy that Taylor Swift dated wasn't a Schwarzenegger.  You are confusing her with Miley Cyrus.

 

I've already stated this numerous times, but when there is a tremendous age difference, there could be an ulterior motive such as fame.  Maybe you think that Sonja's new boyfriend is with her for more than being on television, but I have my doubts.  I express similar doubts when a wealthy older man on television is dating a youthful attactive woman.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[howivesforever]

Why is it assumed Taylor Swift dated that kid because of his Kennedy bloodline, and not because he's a Schwarzenegger?

.

I thought it was Miley Cyrus who dated the Schwarzenegger kid no? Edited April 30, 2015 by howivesforever

[sasha206]

I thought it was Mikey Cyrus who dated the Schwarzenegger kid no?

 

Yes.  Taylor Swift dated Robert Kennedy Jr.'s son.    Miley dated Patrick Schwarzenegger.  And of course, when she dated him the media focus was all about how SHE would fit in with the Kennedys.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[Lisin]

We're going to need you all to remember our golden rule of "Snark the show, not your fellow posters" ok? Disagreeing is fine, being a dick isn't. Keep your snark directed at the show and everyone will be fine. Thank you. 

[shoegal]

 

I've already stated this numerous times, but when there is a tremendous age difference, there could be an ulterior motive such as fame.  Maybe you think that Sonja's new boyfriend is with her for more than being on television, but I have my doubts.  I express similar doubts when a wealthy older man on television is dating a youthful attactive woman.

There could be an ulterior motive such as fame for any of the couples, age difference or not. Maybe Jaques dated LuAnn to get on TV? Maybe Jason married Bethenny for TV (and money....now that one is pretty clear IMO, and they were the same age). People date and marry outside their age group all the time, without cameras present. Several women in my social circle who are my age ( late 30's) have ended up married to men in their late 50's or early 60's. It's not as If it's totally impossible for people to want to date someone older or younger than they are, it happens.

As far as Sonja, I don't think she's actually in a relationship with the guy from Boutique, is she? Was he more than a couple of "dates"?

[sasha206]

There could be an ulterior motive such as fame for any of the couples, age difference or not. Maybe Jaques dated LuAnn to get on TV? Maybe Jason married Bethenny for TV (and money....now that one is pretty clear IMO, and they were the same age). People date and marry outside their age group all the time, without cameras present. Several women in my social circle who are my age ( late 30's) have ended up married to men in their late 50's or early 60's. It's not as If it's totally impossible for people to want to date someone older or younger than they are, it happens.

As far as Sonja, I don't think she's actually in a relationship with the guy from Boutique, is she? Was he more than a couple of "dates"?

 

I agree.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just curious, anyone bothered B is not showing Brynn?  I know, I know, she can't, whether she would have liked to or not.  While I'm not bothered Brynn is not on the show, I'd like to see Bethenny talking about Brynn more.  It would seem more natural & organic, which B has said & implied she wants to be in her presence on the show.  

 

What is bothering me is she's not mentioning her boyfriend -- at all.  I think he had no interest in appearing on the show.  OK, that's fine.  But her not even mentioning him is leaving out an important piece of her life.  She has since split with him, but at the time of filming, apparently she was very close to him & I heard she was living with him.  To me, leaving out ANY mention of him is NOT being honest with the audience about her life.

 

And to me, the biggest tip-off that birthday party was a bunch of fake crapola just done for the show was that her boyfriend wasn't there.  Who the fuck would throw a birthday party for herself & not have her boyfriend there?  Er, huh?

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[howivesforever]

Just curious, anyone bothered B is not showing Brynn? I know, I know, she can't, whether she would have liked to or not. While I'm not bothered Brynn is not on the show, I'd like to see Bethenny talking about Brynn more. It would seem more natural & organic, which B has said & implied she wants to be in her presence on the show. What is bothering me is she's not mentioning her boyfriend -- at all. I think he had no interest in appearing on the show. OK, that's fine. But her not even mentioning him is leaving out an important piece of her life. She has since split with him, but at the time of filming, apparently she was very close to him & I heard she was living with him. To me, leaving out ANY mention of him is NOT being honest with the audience about her life.

And to me, the biggest tip-off that birthday party was a bunch of fake crapola just done for the show was that her boyfriend wasn't there. Who the fuck would throw a birthday party for herself & not have her boyfriend there? Er, huh?

Interesting I had no idea she was in a relationship.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yeah, she was seeing this guy all thru filming this season.  So I think her not mentioning him at all is cagey.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/bethenny-frankel-splits-boyfriend-michael-cerussi-article-1.2160388

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[motorcitymom65]

On a shallow note, did anyone think the cook/maid/nannie looked disappointed that Kristin was going to save those salads for dinner with Josh? Kristin even said on the phone that they were made for lunch. Just me?

I'm gonna have to agree with Bethenny on this one.....Heather was acting like a grade schooler at lunch. And why was she only sad that Kristin wasn't invited when Dorinda, who was seated next to her, wasn't invited either.

I'm not liking Dorinda that much.

I don't think that Heather was sad that Kristen wasn't invited. I also don't think she was mad, irritated, or particularly unhappy about it. I think that she just thought she would share how Kristen was feeling with Beth. They were having a nice moment. They had had a nice moment at Beth's party the night before. She started the conversation by saying that it wasn't a big deal at all; she just wanted to "share something with her". Dorinda was there to convey her own feelings, which she did, and like Kristen she admitted she had been initally hurt by being excluded. I can see how Beth might have been irritated to have the topic introduced, but her reaction made absolutely zero sense IMO. She turned something that was not a big deal into a huge deal. Surely she finds herself in situations all the time that irritate or annoy her? It makes me wonder what a brainstorming or production meeting must have looked like over on her show. Her mocking, scolding, or shaming people simply for bringing up something that didn't interest her or she thought was silly. Edited April 30, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[motorcitymom65]

 

What is bothering me is she's not mentioning her boyfriend -- at all.  I think he had no interest in appearing on the show.  OK, that's fine.  But her not even mentioning him is leaving out an important piece of her life.  She has since split with him, but at the time of filming, apparently she was very close to him & I heard she was living with him.  To me, leaving out ANY mention of him is NOT being honest with the audience about her life.

 

And to me, the biggest tip-off that birthday party was a bunch of fake crapola just done for the show was that her boyfriend wasn't there.  Who the fuck would throw a birthday party for herself & not have her boyfriend there?  Er, huh?

Yes, the party was all for Bravo. There were many stories talking about how after they got done filming for Bravo the gals all went down and continued the party. This was where Beth's boyfriend was waiting for her to get done with work.

http://www.eonline.com/news/595977/inside-bethenny-frankel-s-birthday-bash-reality-star-parties-will-rhony-castmates-and-major-drama-goes-down

[ScoobieDoobs]

Carole went through hell, if she wants to spend her fifties getting back to what she should have experienced 20 years ago, I'm all for it. Most people don't have to experience what she went through until they are in their 50's or 60's or if they are lucky even later.

 

I didn't care for much of Carole's behavior & her TH's in this ep -- and for the most part, this season so far.  But I did like how she held herself in her TH in response to that ridiculously insensitive & callous remark Bethenny said about "rebranding" how one should refer to a deceased spouse.  Sheesh, I'm still floored by how callous that remark was.  Would even Moaner say something that horrible?  OK, both Carole's & Dorinda's losses were not recent.  But what if she said this to a recent widow, who was still in deep pain?  Man, I just can't wrap my head around how cruel & thoughtless & unfeeling & insensitive this woman can be.  Am I wrong or maybe just not remembering, but Moaner hasn't sunk this low, has she?

[slitz]

I didn't care for much of Carole's behavior & her TH's in this ep -- and for the most part, this season so far.  But I did like how she held herself in her TH in response to that ridiculously insensitive & callous remark Bethenny said about "rebranding" how one should refer to a deceased spouse.  Sheesh, I'm still floored by how callous that remark was.  Would even Moaner say something that horrible?  OK, both Carole's & Dorinda's losses were not recent.  But what if she said this to a recent widow, who was still in deep pain?  Man, I just can't wrap my head around how cruel & thoughtless & unfeeling & insensitive this woman can be.  Am I wrong or maybe just not remembering, but Moaner hasn't sunk this low, has she?

 

The Countess would say yes I think for her remarks regarding the Count and their divorce.

 

By the way, not a fan of the Countess right now.  I love how relaxed and breezy she was last year as a "friend of" but now that she's got her apple back?  MEOW!  I don't know, I just don't really see why she's so outraged over Carole and Adam.  I just don't think it's that big of a deal to STILL be harping on it in her blogs and over Twitter.  The tweets I read were pretty vicious, IMO, regarding both Carole and Heather.  Lighten up Lu!  Don't be all uncool!

[Trooper York]

Well to be fair Bethenny is not so far off the mark with "re-branding" death at least with Carole.

 

Isn't she trying to start a new trend with her "Bring your Dead Husband to Work Day?"

[Lemons]

I haven't noticed that Carole's had anything done to her face. If anything, she's the most natural looking of all the housewives.

 

Compared to the west coast versions of Housewives, the NYC cast looks normal.  The NYC cast doesn't do those gross anus lips, thank god.  But Carole has obviously filler in her face.  It's just not grossly overdone. 

 

MOST guys in their 20's don't want girlfriends who are their mother's age.  So the fact that at least 3 of these middle aged women have "boyfriends" in their 20's is a good indication that these "boys" are attracted to the cameras, not the women.

[Beden]

 

No wonder a lot of women end up being trapped in loveless and unhappy marriages for life, the fear of being labeled as a failure, as didn't try enough, as in maybe she was a bitch and couldn't make it work is somehow most times attached to women than men. Men divorce, create new families, move on, divorce again and it is all good, a women divorces, remarried, divorce again and then everytbody starts wondering, what is wrong with her? how come she can't make her marriage work? I call that BS.

With respect, I have to disagree with a bit of this. Yes, we all know women (and a few men) who stay in bad marriages because of social pressure, fear of being seen or perceiving themselves as failures or the dreaded two-time losers, as can happen. And no, some marriages end (they don't all 'fail', a judgmental term, to understate it) for any of a thousand reasons. In my own case I was finally forced to make a choice to leave when my ex's mental illness because so out of control that it was try to help him or raise my then young son. I opted for my son, now grown, intelligent, educated, compassionate and fully employed in a field he loves and has a real talent for.

 

I'm divorced myself, a single parent and I know from experience that while the failure feelings are very real, most of the women I know who stay in bad marriages are there simply because of fear of financial disaster if they lose the husbands income. I'm not just talking about women who--usually along with their husbands/partners--opted to stay home with the kids. I'm talking about the realities of money and raising kids, feeding yourself and your family, paying for everything which needs to be paid for from utilities to shoes. There's also the very real terror of being a single parent while holding a job (I've always worked, BTW, and had my own money)--it's not easy. I've also sat in Family Court listening to women, unable to pay their rent,  whose partners drove to court in their Mercedes while owing hundreds of thousands of dollars in back child support--that's not an exaggeration. And yes, my ex was a deadbeat dad.

 

I'm just saying that every marriage which ends isn't  caused by something so simplistic as not trying hard enough. Not every marriage which ends is a failure. Who's to blame in Bethenny's marriage breakdown or Luann's or Ramona's? I don't know, don't care but I do know that what we see on an obviously scripted reality show ain't nowhere near reality. Reality is a whole 'nuther animal.

 

OT, I suppose but there you go. And the other, upside? I and several of my friends have learned that you can do this--not easy, hell no, but you can work and raise a child and pay the bills and screw anyone who naysays it.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Beden

[Trooper York]

Plus Dorito seems to enjoy using her dead husband as a club to smack around her boyfriend.

 

Those dead guys come in handy.

 

Maybe they can market it on late night TV and use that Oxi-Clean guy Billy Mays. 

 

Wait a minute he's dead.

 

Perfect.

[MatildaMoody]

I keep going back and forth on this Heather and Bethenny thing. On the one hand, Bethenny was rude in her response to Heather. But on the other hand, I felt like Heather was rude to don her "Captain Save a Ho" cape in the first place. if Kristen felt excluded, she had every right to approach Bethenny about it on her own without an interference from Heather. I guess I don't know what Heather was expecting Bethenny to say to the fact that someone she barely interacted with was upset about not being invited to an event that she was hosting - even if it was a Bravo induced event, in the end Bethenny had a say in who would be there and who wouldn't. 

 

But then, I go back to Bethenny's response and I just don't get why she didn't just tell Heather that she didn't know Kristen that well and didn't realize it was even an issue. Pulling the Vicki Gunvalson thing was just out of line. But, at the same time, Bethenny knows that these stupid little things can become season long story lines if they are given enough traction. And Heather bringing it up felt like a set up to exactly that to me. This was going to become "party-gate" if it wasn't shut down. So, refusing to discuss it made sense in that context. 

 

See? Back and forth.

[beaker73]

This made me laugh as my national sorority was founded at Hunter College on Manhattan's Upper East Side.  

Mine too!

 

I'm just going to say one thing--I find Sonja to be sad and pathetic. Her ridiculousness at B's birthday party with her boy toy was just embarrassing.  At one point she said something about "getting the kid some food" and he rolled his eyes at her while walking away.  I wonder how many times he was her 11-7?   Don't get me wrong she's single and if she can get young meat - by all means go for it. I just don't find her to be nearly as hot as she finds herself.   

Edited April 30, 2015 by beaker73

[islandgal140]

Now I love me a strong brow (I worship at the altar of Lily Collins and Cara D) but Dorinda's daughter's Bert and Ernie eyebrows are just ridiculous. 

 

I think Dorinda uses her daughter as an excuse vis a vis her relationship with John. Granted her daughter doesn't like John but but why would she given that Dorinda doesn't exactly speak all that highly of him herself.  Hell, I think Dorinda kinda likes thinks the way they are. At the heart of it I don't think Dorinda loves John.  Hard to tell if she even likes him sometimes. John will never compare do her dead husband. John is always compared to him and always found lacking tremendously. She pretty much said so in her premiere episode. John isn't elegant, he isn't patrician, he isn't learned like her late husband. He is a coarse, fat meatball dry cleaner.

 

The fact that she not only lets her daughter run her personal life is alarming enough but letting her dictate her business decisions is something else entirely. The dress chipping idea sounds like a good one. It would be lunacy for Dorinda to let some jobless 20 something, layabout college dropout, living off her largesse dictate how she makes her money.  Her daughter gets money for bags, shoes, bad makeup and dye jobs, clothes but she is obviously saving on brow waxing so I will give her that. 

 

I am not so much stuck on Carole's dating a younger man as I am on the seeming personality transplant.  I was more disturbed by her ditzy response to her editor that 'oops I have deadlines' than the guys love it when chicks blow chunks shit. Your a fucking writer for goodness sake. You did battle with bat shit crazy Aviva over your professionalism and reputation and you appear the following season spouting this shit?!?  I am totally not the one to be telling any woman that once you reach the age of 50 you have to cut off all your hair, stop wearing certain clothes, stop going to certain places and doing certain things, find you a rocking chair and knit sweaters. No ma'am. Hell, I'd never tell Betsey Johnson to stop doing the splits and cartwheeling down the runway during NYC fashion week, stop wearing crazy extensions and strange outfits. However, the thing is that Betsey Johnson has always been Betsey Johnson. She has been doing that shit for eons and that just seems true to her. I don't know if I can say the same for Carole. I think she does dig Adam and probably Adam digs her but in her quest to convince the audience how cool, desirable and sexy she is, she is losing something and in the process coming across as inauthentic (tm Kelly) and try hard. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

So why does it seem so hard for Heather (who btw, is REALLY bugging the fuck outta me this season) to understand Bethenny does not wanna be called Beth & respect this?  Sheesh, I would absolutely love it, if one (even if it's just one) of 'em says to her, "Listen, bitch, I don't wanna be called mama, so cut that hipster-wannabe, overly fake friendly shit out & cut it out right now."  Man, if she called me mama, I'd tell her to go fuck off, but then again, I'm a guy so . . .

[Trooper York]

I think you hit the nail on the head that Dorito doesn't even like John let alone love him. The way she went at him was ridiculous. She wanted to show how she was a tough broad for the cameras make no mistake about it. It was like she was channeling Joan Blondell or something.

 

John is a dope for taking it but he might just be a fame whore like that wannabe fireman douche on Jersey who is hooked up with one of the twins. The coming attractions have him with his hand on Sonja's ass so that should be pretty interesting to say the least.

 

You know that John is going to get the worst edit possible because he just the kind of guy that Satan Andy hates. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Trooper York

[sasha206]

 

I am not so much stuck on Carole's dating a younger man as I am on the seeming personality transplant.  I was more disturbed by her ditzy response to her editor that 'oops I have deadlines' than the guys love it when chicks blow chunks shit. Your a fucking writer for goodness sake. You did battle with bat shit crazy Aviva over your professionalism and reputation and you appear the following season spouting this shit?!?  I am totally not the one to be telling any woman that once you reach the age of 50 you have to cut off all your hair, stop wearing certain clothes, stop going to certain places and doing certain things, find you a rocking chair and knit sweaters. No ma'am. Hell, I'd never tell Betsey Johnson to stop doing the splits and cartwheeling down the runway during NYC fashion week, stop wearing crazy extensions and strange outfits. However, the thing is that Betsey Johnson has always been Betsey Johnson. She has been doing that shit for eons and that just seems true to her. I don't know if I can say the same for Carole. I think she does dig Adam and probably Adam digs her but in her quest to convince the audience how cool, desirable and sexy she is, she is losing something and in the process coming across as inauthentic (tm Kelly) and try hard. 

 

You summed up my feelings exactly.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Yes, the party was all for Bravo. There were many stories talking about how after they got done filming for Bravo the gals all went down and continued the party. This was where Beth's boyfriend was waiting for her to get done with work.http://www.eonline.com/news/595977/inside-bethenny-frankel-s-birthday-bash-reality-star-parties-will-rhony-castmates-and-major-drama-goes-down

Woooooow! This is very telling. Fake fake fake FAKE FAKE.

This invite list for the filming party were the work people vying for air time and promotion (Skinny Girl ppl, HW, the realtors ) who were ALSO good enough to also make the cut to stay for the personal party. Minus the boyfriend who was downstairs waiting the whole time. What a clusterfuck of epic proportions. She dressed in a hotel since she cannot film in the boyfriends apartment (you know, because he doesn't exist Beth, you FAKE) and she cannot film at home, and she can't film her friends only the camera Ho's and she cannot film solely work girls alone or Dorinda and Heather and Kristen would have made the cut for downstairs after. No wonder she's not happy and doesn't know where she lives and which way is up. Only BETH make something so complicated. To her this is more ideal than her husband throwing her a surprise party.

I can see where Kristen was hurt. This was a work party only for those who didn't make Bethenny's cut on the personal side. To K this looked like a work thing IMHO. It would've to me.

On second thought maybe she couldn't film everyone because she only had six chicken skewers for the whole invite list.

The mechanics of this filming scenario makes me dislike Bravo and Real HW may be jumping the shark.

Bethennys tag line is that she's not a housewife but she's real. This party was over maneuvered and was fake as hell. None of it was birthday. It was filming, followed by her wrap party after filming not a bday party!

Edited April 30, 2015 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[QuinnM]

 

I can see where Kristen was hurt. This was a work party only for those who didn't make Bethenny's cut on the personal side.

No way.  Kristen, Heather and Dorinda didn't make the cut for Luann's girls night either.  The way it's working out if you're an actual housewife you can't go to parties.  It's production that is setting this us versus them.

[WireWrap]

I keep going back and forth on this Heather and Bethenny thing. On the one hand, Bethenny was rude in her response to Heather. But on the other hand, I felt like Heather was rude to don her "Captain Save a Ho" cape in the first place. if Kristen felt excluded, she had every right to approach Bethenny about it on her own without an interference from Heather. I guess I don't know what Heather was expecting Bethenny to say to the fact that someone she barely interacted with was upset about not being invited to an event that she was hosting - even if it was a Bravo induced event, in the end Bethenny had a say in who would be there and who wouldn't. 

 

But then, I go back to Bethenny's response and I just don't get why she didn't just tell Heather that she didn't know Kristen that well and didn't realize it was even an issue. Pulling the Vicki Gunvalson thing was just out of line. But, at the same time, Bethenny knows that these stupid little things can become season long story lines if they are given enough traction. And Heather bringing it up felt like a set up to exactly that to me. This was going to become "party-gate" if it wasn't shut down. So, refusing to discuss it made sense in that context. 

 

See? Back and forth.

Well, Bethenny did not know Heather or Carole at all either to be honest. IMO, this leaving Kirsten and Dorinda out was a production move and Heather was supposed to bring it up and Bethenny responded like she does when anyone dares to call her out or point out something she did wrong/hurtful, she got nasty. I do not think Heather, Carole or Dorinda knew she would do that but production knew and was counting on it.

Edited April 30, 2015 by WireWrap

[MatildaMoody]

Well, Bethenny did not know Heather or Carole at all either to be honest. IMO, this leaving Kirsten and Dorinda out was a production move and Heather was supposed to bring it up and Bethenny responded like she does when anyone dares to call her out or point out something she did wrong/hurtful, she got nasty. I do not think Heather, Carole or Dorinda knew she would do that but production knew and was counting on it.

But Bethenny had just hung out with Carole and Heather at Luann's Girls Night. It looked like they all had fun so it would make sense to add at least Carole knowing that Carole would bring Heather with her. 

 

I get Production's involvement, but I also get why Bethenny would be defensive being taken to task for something so small. I don't get her reaction, I've never seen her react that way on this show before. I didn't watch much of her show after the wedding because Jason got on my nerves so I don't have a lot to say on the Bethenny shown there. 

[jaync]

Because the Kennedy that Taylor Swift dated wasn't a Schwarzenegger.  You are confusing her with Miley Cyrus.

Oops, you're right. Please excuse my brain fart.

 

I've already stated this numerous times, but when there is a tremendous age difference, there could be an ulterior motive such as fame. 

Sorry, the general "men" threw me off.

 

Yeah, she was seeing this guy all thru filming this season.  So I think her not mentioning him at all is cagey.

So Beth can fake not having a boyfriend (or a home), but she can't feign some basic manners?

 

Sheesh, I'm still floored by how callous that remark was.

What was it she said, that using the term "late" made them sound old? SMH.

[Trooper York]

I think Bethenny really admires Carole. Envies her in fact.

 

You know Bethenny would love to ride around Manhattan in her limo with Jason's ashes sitting next to her.

 

Every once in a while she would pull over and pee in the urn while wearing her wedding dress.

 

Com'on Satan Andy........that's a show right there!

[Celia Rubenstein]

No way.  Kristen, Heather and Dorinda didn't make the cut for Luann's girls night either.  The way it's working out if you're an actual housewife you can't go to parties.  It's production that is setting this us versus them.

 

 

I thought Heather, Kristin, and Dorinda didn't get invited to Luann's girls night because they are either married or have a significant other (or maybe in poor John's case, and insignificant other).  Theoretically they ought not to be out manhunting.  So their exclusion was not presented as being due to Luann either not knowing them well enough or not liking them, and no one called her out on excluding them that I remember.  Now that may have been a production call, or maybe Luann's alone. Maybe both, since I can see each side having a reason to not want to showcase coupled-up women out on the town prowlin' for manmeat. 

 

But Bethey not inviting certain people seems to have been a transparent production move.  This was a total Bravo party and I just don't see the point of Bethenny excluding Kristin and Dorinda because she doesn't know them when she didn't know Carole and better but she invited her.  Maybe it has something to do with not inviting people with significant others - maybe Bethenny is bitter. It wouldn't be the first time, lol.  I know someone suggested that upthread and it did make me go hmmm. But there was the whole plus one thing which basically means you can bring a date (Sonja brought freakin' two) so I'm not convinced limiting the guest list was done by Bethenny to exclude couples. 

 

I am starting to suspect the whole thing was done to give Heather something to bring up on camera with Bethenny, and Bethenny responded so badly because she knew the whole thing - both her excluding certain cast members and being called out for it on camera - was a total set up by production to generate the fake drama (that she referred to her in tweet to Luann) and she resented it.

 

I get Production's involvement, but I also get why Bethenny would be defensive being taken to task for something so small. I don't get her reaction, I've never seen her react that way on this show before.

 

 

... IMO, this leaving Kirsten and Dorinda out was a production move and Heather was supposed to bring it up and Bethenny responded like she does when anyone dares to call her out or point out something she did wrong/hurtful, she got nasty. I do not think Heather, Carole or Dorinda knew she would do that but production knew and was counting on it.

 

 

You may be right that production anticipated Bethenny responding badly just on the basis of having her behavior questioned at all.  I can see that.  But I think her really over the top reaction may have come from resenting being set up to look bad by not inviting certain people when that is what producers told her to do, and then having production tell Heather to confront her about it on camera,  It would certainly piss me off. 

 

Even if we are right, it is still a shame Bethenny played into their hands with her ridiculous behavior.  She made herself look bad and gave them just what they wanted. 

 

ETA: this would also explain the perplexed boo-boo face Andy Cohen made when the caller on Watch What Happens suggested Bethenny was channelling Jill ... they thought this little set up would please viewers who would like seeing Bethenny go off, but it turns out ... not so much. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Bronzedog]

I'm suspicious of any man who would date Beth, and I call her Beth, because, yes, Beth, that extra syllable is too much work for me, and, I don't want to call you Enny because it's too hard to remember. Anyway, I'm suspicious because her only redeeming feature at this point is her money. She is a raging bitch. The needing a new word for dead husbands was an all time low.

[Bossa Nova]

 

We're going to need you all to remember our golden rule of "Snark the show, not your fellow posters" ok? Disagreeing is fine, being a dick isn't. Keep your snark directed at the show and everyone will be fine. Thank you.

 

Oh my, Lisin. You are so refreshingly not TWOP Howard. You should be working at the UN with your fine diplomatic skills. :) 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Bossa Nova

[WireWrap]

But Bethenny had just hung out with Carole and Heather at Luann's Girls Night. It looked like they all had fun so it would make sense to add at least Carole knowing that Carole would bring Heather with her. 

 

I get Production's involvement, but I also get why Bethenny would be defensive being taken to task for something so small. I don't get her reaction, I've never seen her react that way on this show before. I didn't watch much of her show after the wedding because Jason got on my nerves so I don't have a lot to say on the Bethenny shown there. 

Luann said that she did not invite Heather, Kirsten or Dorinda because 2 are married and the other is in a relationship! There was no way for Bethenny to know that Carole would ask Heather to come along. And Heather did not get nasty, did not try to start an argument, in fact, she down played it when she brought it up. Bethenny just went off for no reason.

 

Bethenny, on her own show, got more and more aggressive and demanding with just about everyone. I liked Jason, not that he was perfect, he was not, but he was real, grounded and in love with Bethenny. IMO, Bethenny was never in love with Jason and became angrier at him because of it and did everything she could to push him away, to make him divorce her. Jason wanted the marriage to work, Bethenny did not. JMO

[Lemons]

John is a dope for taking it but he might just be a fame whore like that wannabe fireman douche on Jersey who is hooked up with one of the twins.

 

They've been together for 2 years before the cameras, so I doubt that's it.  I'm sure she was attracted to his success and money but after a couple of years she's finding out it's not worth it and can't hold in her contempt anymore.

[Trooper York]

Well she makes no secret of her contempt for him. What does he get out of it now?

 

What they present in the publicity is not always what is the truth. They embellish it a whole lot.  I don't know what is the truth but we have seen this kind of thing before across the Housewives franchises. Dorito needed to have a storyline and it seems that John is shaping up to be a big part of her story. Every other scene that she is in seems to be of her berating him and putting him in his place. The guy seems honestly surprised about the turn of the conversation, Is that what she brings to the table besides her cellphone?

 

Besides the Leonid Brezhnev eyebrows that is.

[BucFan]

I think you hit the nail on the head that Dorito doesn't even like John let alone love him. The way she went at him was ridiculous. She wanted to show how she was a tough broad for the cameras make no mistake about it. It was like she was channeling Joan Blondell or something.

Joan Blondell- Ding Ding Ding- We Have A Winner :)

So why does it seem so hard for Heather (who btw, is REALLY bugging the fuck outta me this season) to understand Bethenny does not wanna be called Beth & respect this?  Sheesh, I would absolutely love it, if one (even if it's just one) of 'em says to her, "Listen, bitch, I don't wanna be called mama, so cut that hipster-wannabe, overly fake friendly shit out & cut it out right now."  Man, if she called me mama, I'd tell her to go fuck off, but then again, I'm a guy so . . .

If Heather called me Mama, I'd tell her to Fuck Off and I am a mama.

[sasha206]

Oops, you're right. Please excuse my brain fart.

 

Sorry, the general "men" threw me off.

 

So Beth can fake not having a boyfriend (or a home), but she can't feign some basic manners?

 

What was it she said, that using the term "late" made them sound old? SMH.

 

Ha, no problem.  I was very unclear and all over the place because I was simply trying to describe why the Carole I loved is now annoying the crap out of me.

[Celia Rubenstein]

The guy seems honestly surprised about the turn of the conversation

 

I noted John's look of surprise a couple of times, too, but I thought it was more due to how Dorinda was speaking to him in front of the camera. 

 

I doubt if her language and tone was anything new.  Plus it seemed to be an old argument they were re-having, nothing new at all.  I also suspect that when there are no cameras rolling, he probably gives it right back to her.  He looked pretty steamed in that last dinner scene, and he doesn't strike me as a doormat kind of guy. I wonder if he held back because he doesn't want to look like a jerk returning her fire in front of an audience. 

[Trooper York]

Of course he did. He seems like a pretty savvy guy. I know a lot of people are fooled by the gruff meat head appearance but he runs a big time business and has a lot of pull. Read up on the deal with P Diddy a few years ago. He is not a dummy.

 

But why does Dorito think this look is good for her? Or the interaction with Caterpillar eyebrow girl?

 

She does not come off well in either case.

 

Oh well. She can always call over a random black guy to get her a drink or something.

[shoegal]

MOST guys in their 20's don't want girlfriends who are their mother's age. So the fact that at least 3 of these middle aged women have "boyfriends" in their 20's is a good indication that these "boys" are attracted to the cameras, not the women.

I don't believe that three of the women have "boyfriends" in their twenties. I think LuAnn and Sonja screwed a couple of guys in their twenties, and yes, I'm guessing the guys were in it for the sex, the cameras and probably the free booze/good food. I haven't heard anything about them actually having or being in a relationship with these guys, other than a night or two.

Carole is, I believe, the only one with a "boyfriend" in his twenties (maybe thirties by now?) and they are still together, even though the cameras have gone away. They even got a puppy together.

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[Beden]

 

But Bethenny had just hung out with Carole

But, according to conventional wisdom, Bethenny and Carole are both besties with Andy Cohen. They also all either have homes in or hang out in the Hamptons--wouldn't they all have likely mingled, partied or simply lazed around there over the last few years? Which would make the whole 'I don't know her/them' basically bullshit?