S03.E08: The Pit

[Timetoread]

Hell, given this town I wouldn't be surprised if Emma hasn't beaten someone to death with that oxygen tank.

 

LOL LOL!  That was funny and that was one dangerous dinner table.   It was like a dinner scene in The Godfather.  LOL!

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[Avaleigh]

The reason I'm on the fence about Bob ending up in the pit is because everyone knows he ordered the pit to be made. If he goes missing I feel like his people would point in Norma's general direction. 

 

I definitely think Bob will be dead by the end of the season I'm just not convinced yet that he'll end up in the pit.

 

I'm surprised that Romero didn't tell Norma right away about his obvious skepticism that Bob is building a pool. Again with people holding on to extremely relevant information on this show! They all do it too. 

 

Indeed, she had to address it in a way that didn't horrify or stress him further.  But there's a huge area of gray between nearly making out with your son to "prove" there's nothing unnatural with him noticing you are woman, and desexualizing yourself with muumuus in response to it.

 

Also, the things Norma says to him are not the stuff of a healthy mother/son bond.  Norman isn't five any more.  He needs to understand that it WON'T always be the two of them - in fact, it never was.  Even when she was carrying him, there were other people in her life.  There's the unconditional love that a mother has for her child, and then there's the weird exclusive relationship language that Norma uses with Norman.  I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a mate saying to me the things she says to Norman.  It's so . . . needy and co-dependent.

 

Do I think Norma "makes" Norman what he becomes?  Not completely, no.  But does she contribute to his illness?  Absolutely.  Does she do it on purpose?  No, to the extent that she can separate what Norman needs from what she needs.  It's the nature of her personality that she's not completely able to do that.  And given her history, I can understand how a lot of that happened.  But it doesn't excuse her or make her actions okay.  Especially when she's not all alone facing this - Dylan keeps telling her that they need to deal with Norman.  The last time he said it, a look crossed her face that was similar to the look you describe when Norman made his confession.  She gets it.  She's just avoiding it.  And that's helping no one.  Tragically, especially herself.

I especially agree with the part in bold. I feel like Norma does this a lot. She'll do something where it starts out like good parenting but then it ends up getting a little twisted just when you're thinking that it's not as bad as you think it is. It's like the way she sensibly told him that he's too old to share her bed anymore and is back to telling him that it's okay later in the episode. 

 

I thought it was good that Norma was trying to keep Norman from feeling embarrassed but then she had to go and take it a step further by falling into bed with her kid who is telling her that he feels like he might be sexually attracted to her. Basic common sense tells me that a hug is fine but there's something a little squicky about turning it into a nose to nose fall on the bed in each other's arms sort of scene. 

 

I also can't help but think that part of Norma trying to brush this off and make it seem like it's "normal" and that the excuse that Norman is just hormonal is a way of letting herself off of the hook when it comes to her own need for their extreme closeness. If Norma acknowledges to herself that they are too close and starts taking boundaries more seriously then she's putting her chief source of comfort at risk and I don't know that she's necessarily willing to do that based on everything that we've seen. Norma likes cuddling and all of that stuff with Norman. I agree that her perception of the relationship isn't even close to being as messed up as Norman's is but it's still unhealthy and I don't think she often really faces how unhealthy it really is at times. 

 

I also can't help but think that Norma's reaction to Norman's confession might have been different had James given her the lowdown on just how sick Norman is and that his obsession with her is a serious problem. Or, you know, if she'd happened to catch Norman checking out her ass or watching and touching her while she's freaking sleeping. All of this stuff is disturbing but I think what's even more unsettling is that Norman's obsession with Norma is escalating on every level this season. He's not checking himself, it's obvious to a total stranger that he wants to have sex with his mom, his brother has already gotten weird vibes about them in the past, so IMO sooner or later somebody is going to catch Norman doing that next level shit wrt Norma and it's going to get very ugly. 

 

I think the scariest part of this episode was seeing that Norman was sitting in that chair in the dark for hours. That's some Paranormal Activity shit right there. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Aquarius]

The reason I'm on the fence about Bob ending up in the pit is because everyone knows he ordered the pit to be made. If he goes missing I feel like his people would point in Norma's general direction. 

 

I definitely think Bob will be dead by the end of the season I'm just not convinced yet that he'll end up in the pit.

 

I'm surprised that Romero didn't tell Norma right away about his obvious skepticism that Bob is building a pool. Again with people holding on to extremely relevant information on this show! They all do it too. 

 

I especially agree with the part in bold. I feel like Norma does this a lot. She'll do something where it starts out like good parenting but then it ends up getting a little twisted just when you're thinking that it's not as bad as you think it is. It's like the way she sensibly told him that he's too old to share her bed anymore and is back to telling him that it's okay later in the episode. 

 

I thought Norma it was good that Norma was trying to keep Norman from feeling embarrassed but then she had to go and take it a step further by falling into bed with her kid who is telling her that he feels like he might be sexually attracted to her. Basic common sense tells me that a hug is fine but there's something a little squicky about turning it into a nose to nose fall on the bed in each other's arms sort of scene. 

 

I also can't help but think that part of Norma trying to brush this off and make it seem like it's "normal" and that Norman is just hormonal is a way of letting herself off of the hook when it comes to her own need for their extreme closeness. If Norma acknowledges to herself that they are too close and starts taking boundaries more seriously then she's putting her chief source of comfort at risk and I don't know that she's necessarily willing to do that based on everything that we've seen. Norma likes cuddling and all of that stuff with Norman. I agree that her perception of the relationship isn't even close to being as messed up as Norman's is but it's still unhealthy and I don't think she often really faces how unhealthy it really is at times. 

 

I also can't help but think that Norma's reaction to Norman's confession might have been different had James given her the lowdown on just how sick Norman is and that his obsession with her is a serious problem. Or, you know, if she'd happened to catch Norman checking out her ass or watching and touching her while she's freaking sleeping. All of this stuff is disturbing but I think what's even more unsettling is that Norman's obsession with Norman is escalating on every level this season. He's not checking himself, it's obvious to a total stranger that he wants to have sex with his mom, his brother has already gotten weird vibes about them in the past, so IMO sooner or later somebody is going to catch Norman doing that next level shit wrt Norma and it's going to get very ugly. 

 

I think the scariest part of this episode was seeing that Norman was sitting in that chair in the dark for hours. That's some Paranormal Activity shit right there. 

 

Yes!  I feel like the way Norma is mishandling the Norman situation is maybe two parts trying to protect Norman to one part worry about what life would be without her extremely close relationship with him.  She uses him for emotional comfort that she should not be getting from her son.  It's a fantastic portrayal of emotional incest as far as I'm concerned.

[maczero]

I also can't help but think that part of Norma trying to brush this off and make it seem like it's "normal" and that Norman is just hormonal is a way of letting herself off of the hook when it comes to her own need for their extreme closeness. If Norma acknowledges to herself that they are too close and starts taking boundaries more seriously then she's putting her chief source of comfort at risk and I don't know that she's necessarily willing to do that based on everything that we've seen. Norma likes cuddling and all of that stuff with Norman. I agree that her perception of the relationship isn't even close to being as messed up as Norman's is but it's still unhealthy and I don't think she often really faces how unhealthy it really is at times. 

I wonder if Norma only requires this closeness with Norman in times of stress.  I suspect if the bypass business wasn't looming over her head, she had a man in her life and if someone wasn't always trying to kill her, Norma probably wouldn't be as inappropriate with Norman.

[Timetoread]

I wonder if Norma only requires this closeness with Norman in times of stress.  I suspect if the bypass business wasn't looming over her head, she had a man in her life and if someone wasn't always trying to kill her, Norma probably wouldn't be as inappropriate with Norman.

 

She's definitely touchy feely by nature.  She loves to get and give long hugs from Dylan too.  But something about Norman, maybe where her life was when he came into the world, made her cling to this baby for dear life and she hasn't quite grasped that the baby is now a man with full grown man parts and a man's mind.  She needs to let him go.

[Guest]

I believe Juno was a female dog.  She died just for knowing Norman, the first death he caused while not in a blackout fugue.  Poor Juno.  And then he stuffed her.  He might just as well have shouted "I don't know what normal is!"

I didn't blame Norman for the dog's death.  He was trying to save her.  

[truthaboutluv]

My favorite line of the night goes to Chick. I wish I had written this down last night to quote it. But when Caleb was ranting and raving that if anything happens to Dylan, I'm going to come back here and kill you! And Chick just deadpans, I understand, in a "you gotta do what you gotta do" kind of way, it just killed me.

 

 

His response was, "well a tad melodramatic but okay..." I remember it clearly because it cracked me up too. 

[BatmanBeatles]

 

Okay, I totally cracked up when the therapist guy was like "screw this, I'm getting the hell out of dodge."

I guess classes are cancelled for the rest of the year.

 

It just occurred to me that in the movie, there was a mud hole or a swamp near the motel. Hm.

Edited April 28, 2015 by BatmanBeatles

[BooBear]

I agree that his expectations were unreasonable. But I can buy them as the emotional flailing a tough dude who's mad-crushing on a woman and feeling vulnerable.

I kind of took it another way... I think he knows he shouldn't fall for Norma because that would be a stupid move and this thing was enough to snap him out of his reverie. Last week's family dinner I think probably got a hold of him in a way like it did with Norma, like the promise of this Saturday Evening Post life but he was snapped back out of it by the reality of Norma and her world. As much as I ship them, I don't, because I know Norma is toxic for him and I think he knows it too, even not taking Norman into account. Those two could NOT make it work.

 

I am a little cautious about Dylan and Emma. Dylan has this tendency to want to save women (see mom) and I worry that is what he sees in Emma.  But I did love the smile on his face talking to her.

What is the Pitt? It is a little big for a grave?

[Racj82]

Are we really crapping on James because he had the audacity to spill confidential information while be tortured and scared for his life? I guess this means chivalry is dead I read somewhere? The man is not Jason Bourne. The moment someone brought out the nail gun, most people would fold. He put up with hours of it. James has made many poor choices but giving up information while also being tortured and fearing for his life is not one of them.

[indeed]

It just occurred to me that in the movie, there was a mud hole or a swamp near the motel. Hm.

I think that was in the back of the motel, though. Don't remember any references to its existence on the show...yet (unless I'm forgetting something? I've been waiting patiently...).

Yay, Bradley's back. Ugh. This better be worth it...

More exciting--the car is back!

Rocking chair. Hee! Also way more exciting than Bradley's return.

[riverheightsnancy]

Are we really crapping on James because he had the audacity to spill confidential information while be tortured and scared for his life? I guess this means chivalry is dead I read somewhere? The man is not Jason Bourne. The moment someone brought out the nail gun, most people would fold. He put up with hours of it. James has made many poor choices but giving up information while also being tortured and fearing for his life is not one of them.

No, I don't think so. Some posters were commenting on confidentiality in general. I don't think that the ethical codes covers things like torture, but if they did, it would likely be that confidentiality is waved if the professional is being harmed for said information. 

[Fable]

One other thing. Romero - if you feel this strongly about this woman, how about asking her out and telling her she's beautiful when you are sober.

 

That really is the million dollar question.   He seems cautious and suspicious by nature, and he said it himself that chaos seems to swirl around her.  It seems like he wants to let his guard down, but can't quite get there.  I don't really blame him though, she has lied to him more than once.  He keeps his secrets but he has never lied (that I recall).  I wish Norma would have come clean about Norman, but I can see how she felt she couldn't.  Even though she considers Alex a friend, he is an authority figure, and she is too afraid of losing Norman. 

 

He has come through for her before though by falsifying a police report and beyond, but would he do it again?  It seems like he has proven to her time and again that she can trust him, and I do think he would be a rational person who try to help her sort things out without becoming reactionary, and Norma has trusted him with things, but now that it is Norman they are talking about, that may be a horse of different color.  Perhaps if he had asked a different question of Norma that Bob had raised, she might have come clean, but Norman was just too close to home. 

 

I do think he has it bad [for her] (and that aint't good).

[Beezel]

Damn, I'm so upset nobody fell in the piiiiitttttt. ( Kristen, I also was thinking about Mouse Rat the whole time). Also, hope it's Bradley who ends up in there. Because what is the point of bringing her back otherwise? I don't see Dylan jumping ship regarding the Emma relationship just because she's back, but it still makes me nervous. Truly, after that phone exchange everything makes me nervous surrounding Emma/Dylan. They are perfect, and there is no way the TPTB aren't going to torture us at every turn. 

 

I loved Emma ridiculously trying to play off her gift to Dylan in front of Gunner. Also, "there's no weed, don't get excited." It's purely shallow, since it appears they will never make Gunner important or interesting, but Team Cupcake boy forever.

 

I was surprised that Caleb might have been self aware enough to realize he needs to leave. After last week, I figured he wouldn't be able to contain his need to get back in Norma's life on a regular basis. Though, who knows if he is serious? Mostly like no. Honestly, this week, I'm just grateful he was there to save Dylan! 

 

Maybe it's my recent re-watching of that episode, but Norman's continuous hallucinations of Juno make me so sad. That dog really symbolizes the sweet, sensitive Norman of S1. I know he was very likely never going to be normal, even if he'd managed to have a dog (or anything normal in his life) longer than five minutes, but as he's spiraling even more out of control, it hurts to remember that version of him. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Beezel

[natyxg]

Damn, I'm so upset nobody fell in the piiiiitttttt. ( Kristen, I also was thinking about Mouse Rat the whole time). Also, hope it's Bradley who ends up in there. Because what is the point of bringing her back otherwise? I don't see Dylan jumping ship regarding the Emma relationship just because she's back, but it still makes me nervous.

 

I think Norman is going to kill Bradley. He will probably hide her in the motel, lose it and kill her, then throw her in the pit. I mean, if they put a hole there, someone has to end up there. And Bradly is already "dead", so she's the perfect candidate.

[Black Knight]

Bradley is already "dead"? I don't remember her departure very well (probably because I found her dull). I remember she killed the guy who killed her father and then went to Norman for help, but I'm spacing on any further details. Did she fake her death, then?

 

I don't really know why Romero's so surprised/hurt that Norma didn't tell him about Norman killing his father. Did he forget how he handled the whole Blair Watson thing, which wasn't all that long ago? He was already kind of protective of Norma by then and starting to care for her, but it was still very clear that he had no intention of letting Norman off the hook should he learn that Norman killed Blair Watson. He insisted Norma bring Norman in for that polygraph. So yeah, of course Norma isn't going to tell him about this. I was bummed to see the good ship Normero spring a leak, but I imagine it's just for now. Since the showrunners are now saying 5 seasons, hooking up now would be way too early. That's a "final season" development, possibly late S4 at the earliest.

 

As for Norma confiding in James - she confided in a therapist who had a professional obligation to maintain confidentiality. Totally different situation from Romero. And since James held onto confidentiality all through being kidnapped and tied up and threatened, and didn't cave even after the first bit of torture (judging by the amount of damage he had), I'm going to say Norma's judgment was actually correct in that one regard - he gave up her secrets only under very extreme circumstances.

 

Although I know Emma is much better off away from Norman, when he was sitting in his chair afterwards and had that line to Juno, my heart broke for him. He didn't care about having Emma as a girlfriend, she's right about that, but it's clear that even though she reassured him she'd always love and care for him, he feels like he's lost her as his best friend too.

[DiabLOL]

 

 

It just occurred to me that in the movie, there was a mud hole or a swamp near the motel. Hm.

Yes! They pulled up the car in the very last shot! Good point good point.

[opus]

 

Hell, given this town I wouldn't be surprised if Emma hasn't beaten someone to death with that oxygen tank.

Well, do we know what happened to her mom?

[Avaleigh]

Gunnar is totally going to eat those brownies.

[green]

Are we really crapping on James because he had the audacity to spill confidential information while be tortured and scared for his life? I guess this means chivalry is dead I read somewhere? The man is not Jason Bourne. The moment someone brought out the nail gun, most people would fold. He put up with hours of it. James has made many poor choices but giving up information while also being tortured and fearing for his life is not one of them.

 

Yeah chivalry dead because a human being breaks under torture?  I agree that's makes no sense at all.  Even Navy SEALS are instructed to give out information immediately since no human being on earth can hold out against torture long.  (Glad James didn't end up as a total red shirt and actually made it out of town if not totally in one piece).

 

Norma is a complete idiot.  (D'oah).  Romero was her only hope for true help and she lied to him again when he told her this was the last chance too thus condemning herself, as we all know, to death at the hands of the one person she was mistakenly protecting.  And, of course, pushing aside the one person who could help her.  The one person who has risked his life several times over for her and even gotten shot for her.  Poor Romero has gone a thousand extra miles for Norma and gets treated like total crap yet again for his efforts.  Hopefully he will stick to his word and walk away from her forever.  But hope doesn't come easily in the fictional world of Crazy Town, USA.

 

(One does wonder at the degree of delusional denial and wigged-out rationalization Norma has going on in her head.  She has a murderer for a son and she refuses to either turn him in or get real help for him thus she will become, in effect, an accomplice in her own murder.  But probably a few others leading up to hers as well).

 

Chick had the two best lines of the night.  The one people have mentioned above.  And right before that when Dylan and Caleb declare they will both run the guns he made some kind of comment like "A father-son road trip while bonding over gun running."  Not exact quote.  The exact was funnier. 

 

And poor Chick's fabulous new art work hit the dust right after all the dead people "father-son" shot.  The world will be lesser for it's loss.

 

23 feet is pretty deep.  I imagine Norman can fit in a few layers of bodies into that hole.  How nice of Bob to provide him with it.

Edited April 29, 2015 by green

[Timetoread]

Yeah chivalry dead because a human being breaks under torture?  A agree that's makes no sense at all.  Even Navy SEALS are instructed to give out information immediately since no human being on earth can hold out against torture long.  (Glad James didn't end up as a total red shirt and actually made it out of town if not totally in one piece).

 

James was broken to begin with.  Completely unscrupulus and trash no matter which way you turn him.  They didn't need to torture him to get him to give up his non-existent honor code.  Norman knocked him down and he scampered out like a rat.  Bob's friends had no clue what went on with Norma before she moved there, why was THAT what he felt compelled to tell them?   I'll answer that.  He felt compelled to take the heat off himself (understandable) by sending it to her (snitch).  He could have told other truths (she was upset that night about something with her brother who abused her and is in town and sent the heat to Caleb, who would hold his own before they killed him.)  But he had no concern for her or what would happen to her having done this.  He didn't tell her that she was in danger from her son nor that she was in danger from these gangsters.  He ONLY cared about himself from the beginning to the end.  There never was any chivalry in him, torture just gave him an excuse.  I am rather pissed he didn't end up as a red shirt.  I think that pit was plenty big enough to hold and hide his sorry ass.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Timetoread

[Guest]

So they just tortured him for fun?  And we were shown him holding back her secrets why?  

 

You seem to detest every man who touches Norma.  Did you also hate that deputy?  

[Ohwell]

As far as I'm concerned, the worst thing James did was to sleep with a patient, Norma.  For that, he should have gotten his license suspended.  Otherwise, I don't dislike him and I'm glad he got the hell outta there in one piece.   Hopefully, he's learned his lesson about not sleeping with patients.

[Racj82]

James was broken to begin with.  Completely unscrupulus and trash no matter which way you turn him.  They didn't need to torture him to get him to give up his non-existent honor code.  Norman knocked him down and he scampered out like a rat.  Bob's friends had no clue what went on with Norma before she moved there, why was THAT what he felt compelled to tell them?   I'll answer that.  He felt compelled to take the heat off himself (understandable) by sending it to her (snitch).  He could have told other truths (she was upset that night about something with her brother who abused her and is in town and sent the heat to Caleb, who would hold his own before they killed him.)  But he had no concern for her or what would happen to her having done this.  He didn't tell her that she was in danger from her son nor that she was in danger from these gangsters.  He ONLY cared about himself from the beginning to the end.  There never was any chivalry in him, torture just gave him an excuse.  I am rather pissed he didn't end up as a red shirt.  I think that pit was plenty big enough to hold and hide his sorry ass.

The man is kidnapped and tied up by complete strangers and told to give information on Norma. He denies really even knowing Norma (which he did not have to do). They told him to give them dirt on Norma and brought client/patient confidentiality (which he didn't have to because, hey he has been KIDNAPPED). He takes a nail gun to the foot. Still says nothing. Takes hours of torture and has to face to prove it before he spills his guts. At that point, any normal person is giving all the secrets. Way before that even. The guy is just a doctor. He's a doctor, not a international spy. His poor decisions got him into this mess in the first place. Everyone agrees with this. But, what he tried to for Norma is much more than any person would or should have to put up with.

 

But all of this equals someone who was waiting with anticipation to tell Norma's secrets. This was someone who didn't give damn about confidentiality. If that was the case, he would have spilled the beans before he ever got tied up. Do you see how all of this doesn't gell with your version of the events?

[peacheslatour]

I didn't blame Norman for the dog's death.  He was trying to save her.  

I didn't say he killed her.  I said he caused her death.  He called her and she ran into the road and got run over right in front of him.  It was horrific and I don't blame Norman, but the dog did die just from knowing him.

[Avaleigh]

I have to agree that it seems a bit unreasonable to expect James to be able to protect Norma's secret as he's being tortured. Torture can cause people to say anything. It's probably difficult to think while a person is being tortured so I can understand why he would spill anything he knows.

 

What makes less sense to me is that he wouldn't be as detailed as possible. To me it should have been something along the lines of James saying 'Not only did her son kill his father but he has violent tendencies in general and actually tried to strangle me in the basement of their house the other day. I didn't say anything because I know how to keep my mouth shut. This never happened.'

 

Also, it's not like James folded immediately. It was obvious that these men were serious but he still attempted to hold uphold the confidentiality. He didn't immediately blow it off. Adding to this, he and Norma barely know each other so there were only so many things that he could have thought to tell them and then what if they're able to see through the lie and it only prolongs the torture? I can see fearing that lying to them would only make things worse and possibly even make them kill him.  

 

James was wrong for sleeping with Norma in the first place, he shouldn't have talked to Norman in a semi-professional capacity, and he shouldn't have withheld the information about Norman's attack on him from Norma to say nothing of what triggered it. But telling the truth about someone under torture? I can't fault him for that. 

[Guest]

I didn't say he killed her.  I said he caused her death.  He called her and she ran into the road and got run over right in front of him.  It was horrific and I don't blame Norman, but the dog did die just from knowing him.

I see your point.  But she was a stray he was just trying to take in.  I feel like she would've eventually probably gotten hit by a car, or worse, if Norman hadn't tried to help her.  But yeah, the important thing is in Norman's mind he played a part in her dying. He may not realize he did the right thing there, despite the bad result.    

[rue721]

I think James was a garden-variety creep who got in WAY over his head. The way he zeroed in on Norma and tried to become her therapist *while* trying to get her into his bed was skeezy as hell imo. His "therapy" session with Norman was terrible. From the second he showed up onscreen and started playing power games with his classroom seating, I didn't doubt that he was a scumbag.

 

But Norman nearly choking him out while surrounded by a menagerie of dead animals? These professional bad guys torturing him for hours....?! That's WAY out of James's league. He's just some regular old douche-y guy. He's not prepared for "White Pine Bay" or "Bates Family" levels of crazy. 

 

James reminds me of that proverbial arrogant eighth grader who thinks he's hot shit -- until he shows up at the high school for his first day of freshman year. When he's surrounded by upperclassman, suddenly he realizes he's not half so cool or half so tough as he thought, and all he wants is to run home to Momma! :P

Edited April 29, 2015 by rue721

[peacheslatour]

I think James was a garden-variety creep who got in WAY over his head. The way he zeroed in on Norma and tried to become her therapist *while* trying to get her into his bed was skeezy as hell imo. His "therapy" session with Norman was terrible. From the second he showed up onscreen and started playing power games with his classroom seating, I didn't doubt that he was a scumbag.

 

But Norman nearly choking him out while surrounded by a menagerie of dead animals? These professional bad guys torturing him for hours....?! That's WAY out of James's league. He's just some regular old douche-y guy. He's not prepared for "White Pine Bay" or "Bates Family" levels of crazy. 

 

James reminds me of that proverbial arrogant eighth grader who thinks he's hot shit -- until he shows up at the high school for his first day of freshman year. When he's surrounded by upperclassman, suddenly he realizes he's not half so cool or half so tough as he thought, and all he wants is to run home to Momma! :P

ITA, he was just a garden variety arrogant dick who though he could take a lame gig at a community college in a small town and have a little whoopty-doo on the side.  Nothing in his little bag of pseudo psychological tricks could have prepared him for the force of nature that is Norma/Norman Bates.

[Guest]

Yeah, I thought he was a small town douche whose high point was holding Norma's secrets as long as he did.  And being smart enough to get out of Dodge.  I think he wanted to help Norman but he should've known if the kid killed his father, James was in way over his head.  Especially to try to bring up the stuff he did that quickly, and in Norman's own basement complete with scalpels.

[riverheightsnancy]

Personally, (as a university Psych prof myself), I thought the way he embarrassed Norma in class the first time was really terrible. I would never do that to a student, especially on first day of class. That is the best way to get horrific evals and to get fired as well. I think that he could have been good for Norma as a sounding board or a friend, if he had just held his professional boundaries and not trolled her for therapy sessions upon meeting her for the first time. The fact is, we don't know everything and acting as such really gives therapy and psychology professionals a bad name.  Multiple relationships James, multiple relationships! Other than that, I was not thrilled to see Bradley, because I fear that something really bad will happen to her. I want Emma and Dylan to be safe though. 

[natyxg]

Bradley is already "dead"? I don't remember her departure very well (probably because I found her dull). I remember she killed the guy who killed her father and then went to Norman for help, but I'm spacing on any further details. Did she fake her death, then?

 

I don't remember all the details, but she faked her death. I remember her leaving a note.

 

Yes! They pulled up the car in the very last shot! Good point good point.

 

I doubt the hole is that one. That one looked like a swamp or a lake. I always figured it was the same one where they threw in the dude who raped Norma in the pilot.

[peacheslatour]

riverheightsnancy!  I love your screen name!

 

I doubt the hole is that one. That one looked like a swamp or a lake. I always figured it was the same one where they threw in the dude who raped Norma in the pilot.

My husband and I discussed this last night and we agreed that the swamp was behind the house and was an actual swamp, not a pit.

[green]

... They didn't need to torture him to get him to give up his non-existent honor code.  Norman knocked him down and he scampered out like a rat.  ...

 

But they (the torturers) did.  He refused at first because he did have an honor code he tried to live up to.  But he got a freaking nail through his foot which is one of the most sensitive and painful areas of the body.  (Also one of the reasons Romans liked to pound one into the feet when crucifying people).  That would have been way more than enough for me to tell all about everyone let alone poor James being beaten to a pulp for hours afterwards as well.

 

And I would have scampered out of that basement like a rat, snake, fish, goat or turkey after nearly getting strangled to death by a full blown, murderous (wait for it) "psycho."

 

Guy was a small town dude who was insecure ("that's my chair") and trying to cover for his insecurities in all the wrong ways.  He was also looking for love in all the same wrong places and met a crazy woman who was doing the exact same thing.  Norma lead him on as much as he hit on her.  They were both unstable outsider types trying to muddle through life and stubbing their toes at every turn.   Just James was at a bush league level and Norma was already playing in the bigs.

 

Hopefully James grew from this experience and lives to not tell his grandchildren about it.  We know Norma doesn't grow (she never does ... that's the most  infuriating part about her) nor live to have grandchildren.  (And thank goodness Norman never procreates ... at least I hope he doesn't.  I don't need a "Son of Psycho" sequel).

Edited April 29, 2015 by green

[riverheightsnancy]

riverheightsnancy!  I love your screen name!

 

Thanks Peaches. I guess if you know what it means than you know who it means! ;) Basically, the real name is always already taken by someone else, so I had to come up with an alternative for my childhood alter-ego! 

[peacheslatour]

Thanks Peaches. I guess if you know what it means than you know who it means! ;) Basically, the real name is always already taken by someone else, so I had to come up with an alternative for my childhood alter-ego! 

I inherited those books from my aunt, so I have all those 1930's and '40's editions illustrated by R.H. Tandy.  I must have read each one about 10 times as a kid.  I wanted to be Nancy sooo bad.

[KaveDweller]

Bradley is already "dead"? I don't remember her departure very well (probably because I found her dull). I remember she killed the guy who killed her father and then went to Norman for help, but I'm spacing on any further details. Did she fake her death, then?

 

She wrote a suicide note and made it looked like she jumped off a bridge or a cliff or something.  Norman helped her get out of town and pull it off.

[Mabinogia]

What I like about this show is a character like James. From the start he was kind of an ass, that whole chair thing, hitting on Norma then trying to be her therapist. He's not the greatest guy, but then this shitstorm erupts around him and, nothing he did made him deserve that. So while I didn't like him from the moment he showed up, and I still don't like him, I feel bad for him. He really bit off more than he could chew.

 

Even Bradley, whom I also don't like, I feel for her. Not happy she's back, I just never could warm to her character, but she's so sad and tragic that I don't have to like her to feel bad for her. Some shows, if I don't like a character, I just don't care about them at all but this show, with the exception of obvious villians like Bob or that guy who raped Norma (forget his name but he's dead now and I'm glad) or even her Deputy boyfriend with the sex slave in his basement, the show does a good job of making me feel for characters I don't particularly like. Caleb is another great example. I will never like him, but I can sympathize with him, his story is so complex.

[missy jo]

Dylan and Emma are beyond adorable. Only on Bates Motel would we be rooting for two characters to leave the show *because* we care about their health and welfare! I have a huge crush on Max Theriot by now and so much respect for him as an actor; he truly holds his own against two of the best on TV right now.

 

As far as Norman's mental illness, treatment, etc. and both Norma and James' reactions to it: Norma's denial and covering up a family member's mental illness when clearly they need professional help is pretty true-to-life for me. As for James, you don't know a killer is a killer before they're a killer. It's a pretty big leap for him to go from Norman's threat to warning her she'd end up stitched up. Anyway, bye James!

 

They've shown Taxidermy Juno this season (I think?), so it was easy enough for regular viewers to get that Norman was hallucinating the dog, but the callback to Bradley all the way from Season 1 is asking us a lot, IMO. Norman hallucinated her as bedraggled, because as far as he knows, she committed suicide by drowning in the river. He doesn't know that Dylan secretly put Bradley on a bus out of town, and that her death was faked to keep her safe from those out to get her.

 

I actually wasn't pissed off at Romero - I was sad for him that Norma wouldn't confide in him. I think he wanted and was wiling to 100% have her back, if only she was willing to share the truth with him. The fact that she wasn't willing to trust him, still, after all they've been through thus far? He looked absolutely heartbroken.

 

PS riverheightsnancy, thank you for sharing your mental-health insights. I have some similar experience, and you've lent a lot of knowledge for these past few episodes' forums.

Edited April 30, 2015 by missy jo

[Guest]

Norman knows Bradley left town.  It was in season 2.  He was supposed to drive her to the bus station but had to do community theater so had Caleb (I mean DYLAN) do it, I think. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Guest

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah Norman knows Bradley's not dead. I don't think he was part of the plan to make it seem like she was dead, that was more Dylan's idea, so the drug guys wouldn't come after her for murdering that guy. But I'm pretty sure he's always been under the impression that she just left town.

[Fable]

Norman knows Bradley left town.  It was in season 2.  He was supposed to drive her to the bus station but had to do community theater so had Caleb do it, I think.

 I think so too...I seem to remember him buying some hair dye for her and claiming it was for his mother.  Isn't that how he met up with Cody?  

Edited April 30, 2015 by Fable

[radishcake]

Guys please remember to snark the show not the people. Please respect your fellow posters.Thanks!

[green]

Norman knows Bradley left town.  It was in season 2.  He was supposed to drive her to the bus station but had to do community theater so had Caleb do it, I think. 

 

Dylan took her.

[Guest]

Oops.  That's what I meant.  Those two names are like interchangeable in my mind.  Not the characters, the names.  

[OSM Mom]

Well, do we know what happened to her mom?

If I recall correctly, Emma said that her mom took off when Emma was a kid. That mom couldn't handle having a kid with CF.

[lachrymoserose]

Dear Norman,

Please kill Bradley.

[OSM Mom]

Dear Norman,

Please kill Bradley.

From your mouth to God's ear. And was she really there? Or was she a product of Normans imagination like the dog?

[ganesh]

I asked the same thing, but the dog vanished right before Norman saw Bradley, so she's real. Now, whether Norman knows what's real or not at that moment is questionable.

[editorgrrl]

I agree with A.V. Club:

This Bradley thing better pay off in some way. Nicola Peltz is a fine actor, but I’m hard-pressed to see a good reason to bring her back. Surprise me, Bates Motel.